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AMD Bulldozer Information and Benchmarks Leaked

MojoKid writes "With Bobcat and Llano launched, AMD has one more major product overhaul set for this year. The company's Bulldozer CPU will launch in the next few months, and after years of waiting, enthusiasts and IT industry analysts are both curious to see what AMD has in its high performance pipeline. According to recently leaked info, one of the new AMD octal-core processors will be an AMD FX-8130P running at 3.2GHz base speed, with what's reported as a 3.7GHz Turbo speed, and a 4.2GHz clock speed if only half the CPU's cores are in use." Writer Joel Hruska justly points out that measures based on unofficial data and unreleased chips are subject to all kinds of potential errors, not to mention Photoshop.

126 comments

  1. Photoshop by SquirrelDeth · · Score: 1

    has what to do with clock speed?

    1. Re:Photoshop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Means that the images could have been made/doctored in Photoshop.

    2. Re:Photoshop by VisualD · · Score: 3, Informative

      There is a 3dMark 11 result screenshot with a date of 01/02/2008, they are implying the result is fake.

    3. Re:Photoshop by SquirrelDeth · · Score: 2, Funny

      My desktop clock is always wrong except for Fedora. Why Fedora? My Suse is 2 hr 31 min off. Why does Linux hate the desktop clock so much?

    4. Re:Photoshop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Distros normally default to UTC for the hardware clock. Windows uses local time. If you're dual booting, there's your problem.

    5. Re:Photoshop by rhook · · Score: 3, Informative

      Except 3dMark 2011 didn't exist until last December, it's more likely that he never set the BIOS clock.

    6. Re:Photoshop by mfwitten · · Score: 1

      Perhaps Fedora but not Suse is running an NTP (Network Time Protocol) client, and perhaps Suse is configured for the wrong time zone or the hardware clock and Suse's configuration don't agree on whether time is stored as local time or as time at UTC offset +0000.

    7. Re:Photoshop by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      If you're running that Linux Desktop in a VM, there's some kernel patches required to fix the clock drift, Fedora probably has them and Suse doesn't.

    8. Re:Photoshop by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      That doesn't really explain the 31 minutes.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    9. Re:Photoshop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Since Vista you can use UTC in the RTC.

      Add DWORD HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformation\RealTimeIsUniversal
      and set it to 1.

    10. Re:Photoshop by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      I usually correct the setting in VMWare, not sure on others... something I've forgotten about until I get my midnight reports in the later morning.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    11. Re:Photoshop by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      Newfoundland is in a weird timezone, half an hour off. They're 1.5h ahead of Eastern time, which is 4h ahead of UTC in the summer, so I'm guessing the poster is in NF, which is currently 2.5h ahead of UTC, and that his hardware clock is slightly off.

    12. Re:Photoshop by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      2.5h *behind* UTC. gods, it helps to proofread, but it would help to be awake when I post... NF is west of the prime meridian, not east of it.

    13. Re:Photoshop by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Well to be fair if this bunch just did a quick Windows setup to run this chip frankly I wouldn't be surprised if they ran something like TinyXP/7 or one of the "Razr1911" Windows builds, all of which seem to have the time service disabled.

      But I think the more important thing to note is we won't know what the true performance of the new AMD chips are for about 8 months after the first Bulldozer chips are released. Why is that? because they are currently currently preparing to switch to a whole new APU arch where the GPU will be MUCH more tightly integrated as well as a completely new design (from VLIW to a new vector based GPGPU) which will have several benefits. One the FP on the thing will just be insane and double precision will go from 1/5th the performance of single to more than half, two they are going to share the cache between CPU/GPU, three they are gonna have hybrid graphics where the discrete paints the screen and the APU does physics, four completely new SMTP design which drivers are gonna have to be optimized for which is unlike anything AMD or Intel has put out before. As one reviewer I saw put it the new design is "SMT done right" with the extra integer path keeping bottlenecks to a minimum.

      So I'd say while this might give a few rough ideas (the review says about in the middle of Sandy Bridge and that is without optimized drivers) with a new arch THIS radical it'll need motherboards and drivers designed for it which simply don't exist ATM. I'm personally glad that AMD is still quite competitive, as after the bribery and compilers scandals I put my money where my mouth was and switched to an AMD only shop and my customers couldn't be happier. They are happy with having low prices on triples and quads that have great integrated GPUs (having HDMI onboard is nice) and I'm happy not to be supporting a company that should have been busted for antitrust years ago. its a win/win and from the looks of things these new chips will just make for more happy customers. I'd say it'll make me happy to but my current AMD quad is fast enough I don't see myself building another personal machine for a good 5 years.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    14. Re:Photoshop by EricX2 · · Score: 1

      But is your clock often 3 YEARS wrong? I've found in the past, stuff goes weird when your clock is that wrong. SSL certificates fail on websites for one.

      Also, they are using a new motherboard. Even if the clock was reset it should be the current year. My motherboard from last year doesn't default to 2008, it defaults to 2010 when it is reset.

    15. Re:Photoshop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But this requires editing the registry. This is something that eludes most freetards. Many readers here can't even keep their Windows machines from bluescreening daily due to all the misconfiguration and abuse they put them through.

    16. Re:Photoshop by maxwell+demon · · Score: 2

      Since Vista you can use UTC in the RTC.

      Add DWORD HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformation\RealTimeIsUniversal
      and set it to 1.

      Well, once again the superior intuitive and explorable interfaces of Windows are demonstrated. :-)

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    17. Re:Photoshop by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      completely new SMTP design

      They redesigned the Simple Mail Transfer Protocol? :-)

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    18. Re:Photoshop by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Congratulations! You found a typo! if you know what SMTP is you probably likewise know what SMT is which is of course what I was trying to type.

      It doesn't change the fact that it is gonna be hard to run true benchmarks on a chip that has a design unlike ANYTHING we have ever seen before without having code built to take this new technology into consideration, like running a 10 year old single core benchmark on a modern multicore and thinking its results will be anything useful. Unlike previous designs these new chips will have dual integer pipelines and only share a FP unit, and thanks to the new vector based GPU they are designing for it the AMD chips will be able to hand off things like FP to the GPU which will be as fast as the CPU when it comes to interprocess communication, should be VERY interesting, especially for those that wish to run HPC or Folding@Home kinds of jobs.

      This does bring up something that DOES bother me greatly though, something I hope the guys at /. will point out at every opportunity...Benchmarks should NOT be trusted unless they are done with the non Intel compiler! As we saw from the compiler scandal ALL Intel compilers, from 2002 to this very day, rig the code against non Genuine Intel chips, hell it even rigs the code against the P3!

      So please point out next time you see a benchmark being touted that unless they can confirm the benchmark software was compiled with GCC the results are useless. it would be as ridiculous as believing those MSFT "get the facts!" campaigns, since we are talking about Intel chips getting full SSE2 from the Intel compiler and everyone else getting x87 mode, which was depreciated in the Pentium 1 era. So every time you see a benchmark keep this in mind, it is like Intel tying a brick on every non P4 or above chip before the race even begins. Sorry douchebaggery at its finest but thanks to our government being bought and paid for the antitrust will never be brought against them. Maybe the EU will have better luck.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    19. Re:Photoshop by cynyr · · Score: 1

      and the easy to change configuration system.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
  2. But, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    will it blend?

  3. Photoshop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Photoshop & Illustrator seem to be particularly unstable with AMD Phenom X4 Quad-Core Processor 3.4Ghz.

  4. Why the hype? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I don't really understand the hype behind Bulldozer. Do people really believe that it'll be on-par with Sandy Bridge? The $200 2500k competes well with their own $700+ CPU's. That is absolutely ridiculous performance that I wouldn't have dreamed of 5-10 years ago, for that price.

    Sure, maybe having more cores will mean better multi-threaded performance, but this still isn't taken advantage of. I don't see Intel losing in the single-threaded department anytime soon.

    1. Re:Why the hype? by Mad+Merlin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Would you rather AMD go out of business and Intel charge $2000 for that $200 CPU?

    2. Re:Why the hype? by c.r.o.c.o · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't really understand the hype behind Bulldozer.

      Do people really believe that it'll be on-par with Sandy Bridge? The $200 2500k competes well with their own $700+ CPU's. That is absolutely ridiculous performance that I wouldn't have dreamed of 5-10 years ago, for that price.

      Sure, maybe having more cores will mean better multi-threaded performance, but this still isn't taken advantage of. I don't see Intel losing in the single-threaded department anytime soon.

      You are still thinking raw CPU power still matters. In a world where even web browsers are 3D accelerated, the GPU suddenly becomes extremely important, even more than the CPU. If you are gaming, the best CPU will still be crippled by the GPU present in that system, and that is what's happening with Intel.

      If Bobcat and Llano are any indication, AMD will integrate a GPU that will be at least 2-4 times faster than the GPU in Sandy Bridge while consuming the same amount of power. And if some of the reviews I read are correct, the integrated AMD GPU will be able to work together with the discrete GPU for a 30-70% performance boost.

      So if someone buys a very cheap system without a discrete GPU, Bobcat will be faster than Sandy Bridge, and may even be able to play some older games that choke on SB. And Bobcat will be faster for every day tasks as well such as browsing, playing flash movies and games, playing HD content, etc.

      Now if someone buys a high end system with a discrete GPU, Bobcat will still be faster, because the integrated GPU will work with the discrete GPU. SB currently does not even have such a feature. Even if it did, SB's integrated GPU is still weaker by far than Bobcat's.

    3. Re:Why the hype? by kevinmenzel · · Score: 1

      And in the case where raw CPU does matter? You know, like when you're mixing audio or something?

    4. Re:Why the hype? by Ambassador+Kosh · · Score: 1

      Why would mixing audio be CPU bound? Wouldn't mixing audio be latency and IO bound?

      --
      Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD! :)
    5. Re:Why the hype? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fuck multi core, I want that 4.2ghz for legacy programs.

    6. Re:Why the hype? by alci63 · · Score: 1

      Well... some of us also use computer for, say, databases. With this kind of workload, having several cores is a must. Postgresql for example is on a one process per active request model, and concurrency is impacted by having more cores. Just to give one example. So it may not be significant for gaming, but might be for general computing...

    7. Re:Why the hype? by kevinmenzel · · Score: 1

      Not when you're applying effects to the audio. At that point, you need CPU power. Fast CPU power too for each core if you are going to try to keep your latency down - the faster you can do your calculations, the less latency you're adding to the audio path.

    8. Re:Why the hype? by Damnshock · · Score: 1

      And maybe the single core performance is way more than enough to most of users?

      I'm running a laptop with a Intel Core 2 Duo T7200 and the performance for my day to day use is absolutely satisfactory. I rather add more cpus than raw power per core and have a better multitasking/multi-threaded aproach

      Regards

    9. Re:Why the hype? by sourcerror · · Score: 1

      I don't see how sound effects can't be done on GPU. Of course it'd be a lot of time to rewrite all the vst plugins.

    10. Re:Why the hype? by adolf · · Score: 1

      It's no different than the hype behind the Athlon. Or behind Cyrix/IBM's low-cost 6x86MX. Or AMD's then-fast 40MHz 386 clones in both SX and DX variants. Or even the NEC V20.

      Competition is good.

    11. Re:Why the hype? by Issarlk · · Score: 1

      Then you buy a SB. But for the vast majority of people an AMD will be enough and cheaper, it's not like Farmville is CPU intensive.

    12. Re:Why the hype? by adolf · · Score: 1

      I don't see how sound effects can't be done on a GPU, either. But until that rewrite happens (which it ought to -- it makes too much sense), we'll be still CPU bound for audio tasks.

      (Are we discussing today, tomorrow, or the mysterious future?)

    13. Re:Why the hype? by adolf · · Score: 2

      Heh. I'm running a 1.83GHz Intel Pentium-M on my daily-use laptop. Its performance is absolutely satisfactory, as well, and it just turned 7 years old.

      I had the option, recently, of buying a new battery for that machine or buying a new battery for a very similar, just-a-bit-newer Core Duo laptop that I also have (with a far-lesser display), or buying something completely different.

      I elected to buy a battery for the old Pentium-M machine: It still does what I want, still feels quick compared to far-faster machines, and works just great for the stuff that actually earns me money.

      But I don't mix multi-track audio on it, edit video, or do Serious Computations with it at all anymore (I did all of those when it was new). The hardest work it sees these days is probably when I watch Youtube videos and porn while torrenting the hell out of the hotel's bandwidth when I'm on the road, and it keeps up with that without a fight.

    14. Re:Why the hype? by Verunks · · Score: 1

      Would you rather AMD go out of business and Intel charge $2000 for that $200 CPU?

      so let's hope some benevolent guy buys AMD cpus so I can buy a cheap six core sandy bridge next year

    15. Re:Why the hype? by nyctopterus · · Score: 1

      Flash games aren't CPU intensive? What planet are you from?

    16. Re:Why the hype? by obarthelemy · · Score: 1

      If you're gaming, you're not using an IGP/APU, and won't be anytime soon.

      --
      The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
    17. Re:Why the hype? by Sulphur · · Score: 2

      fuck multi core, I want that 4.2ghz for legacy programs.

      "Bouncing Babies" at 4.2ghz awesome.

    18. Re:Why the hype? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably the one where we've got GPU accelerated flash. Now, from were are you hailing, sir?

    19. Re:Why the hype? by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      I don't know.. the Athlon XP was very competative with Intel, and the later Athlon's smoked the Pentium 4's of the time... Core 2 vs. Phenom was a legup to Intel and iX was a further lead to intel.. on the IGP front, I think AMD will lead again here at least for overall performance. Hoping to see more options, the E-350 seems really compelling for its' price class.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    20. Re:Why the hype? by realityimpaired · · Score: 2

      Compiling and encoding/transcoding are the only tasks I can think of that are CPU bound, and to some extent both are limited by I/O throughput as well. Most graphics cards have hardware decoders for most common codecs, and most encoding isn't done by consumers. Transcoding usually isn't done by consumers, but I suppose if you're ripping DVD's or something you're doing transcoding.

      That said, it takes 15 minutes or so to rip a DVD into a 1GB MKV file on my Core i7 laptop. In other words, we are well beyond the point where most consumers will see CPU speed being a limiting factor in everything they want to do. CPU speeds are actually following a generally downward trend at the moment (except in the enthusiast markets), as the general tendency is towards reduced power consumption and reduced heat, and the realization that processors from 10 years ago were fast enough to surf the web, chat, and write documents. Gaming is really the only mainstream use where the speed is generally trending upwards, and in that market, the power of your video card is far more important than the speed of your CPU... I would rather game on a system with a $200 CPU and a $500 Graphics card than the other way around.

    21. Re:Why the hype? by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

      Which $700+ CPUs?
      Newegg.com offers the AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Black Edition for $189.99 right now, and that model is AMD's top desktop CPU right now.

      It eats a bit too much energy for my taste (125W TDP), but in price/performance it is a pretty nice CPU. If Bulldozer can improve on the power consumption, my next CPU upgrade will definitely be a Bulldozer.

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    22. Re:Why the hype? by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      umm, mixing audio? Are you even aware of what you are talking about?

      48khz 5.1 surround sound (6 channels) consumes only 288000 samples per second. Even a fucking 386 could process this, and in fact back in the day 33mhz 386's were playing 16-channel modules (thats software resampling and so forth of 16 independent channels) with enough free time to also do software 3D rendering.

      Now, 288000 samples per second on any machine that is between 2ghz and 4ghz yields between 6700 and 13400 cpu cyles per sample PER CORE. In other words, you could probably process 5.1 audio with poorly written and single-threaded vbscript.

      Admit it. You knew that you didn't know what the fuck you were talking about, so why did fuck did you bother?

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    23. Re:Why the hype? by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Why would mixing audio be CPU bound?

      Audio programs like FL studio run out of CPU *very* quickly - you can have hundreds of sounds playing, all with effects processing, etc. I tried running it on a netbook once but it had no chance of keeping up...

      --
      No sig today...
    24. Re:Why the hype? by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Nope, YOU'RE the one who needs a clue.

      Go ask a few musicians if they have enough CPU power for their sequencers (eg. FL studio, Reason, etc).

      --
      No sig today...
    25. Re:Why the hype? by Adayse · · Score: 1

      There isn't much hype, that is a difference. Attention has shifted to phones. Desktop PCs and the parts that go in them are worthless because they confer almost no social status on their owners, unless the owner is a teenage boy.

      Before the battle was about performance, now it's heat, price and performance because every household has a couple of computers per person and the cost of a cpu is much lower.

    26. Re:Why the hype? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      He might be one of those mysterious folks who means serious digital audio workstation stuff when he says "mixing audio"... That is, shall we say, slightly more intensive than just shoving around the pre-chewed stuff fast enough for glitchless output from the DAC.

    27. Re:Why the hype? by Anrego · · Score: 1

      Just mixing, maybe not. Effects can definitely chew CPU up though.

      I use my desktop (i7 and a tonne of ram) as a guitar amp .. just doing convolution based amp/cabinet modeling gets CPU usage up pretty high. Add in some reverb (also convolution based) and while the box isn't exactly struggling.. it definitely notices.

      And that's just one instrument with a limited set of effects.

    28. Re:Why the hype? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Not to mention virtualization:

      With that being so common, even the crankiest "this workload is single-threaded, and it really wants a server to itself" applications are likely to find themselves sharing a multicore processor with a bunch of other such workloads.

      Given that AMD's server offerings have lately been pretty cheap compared to Intel's, have the advantage of hypertransport being a good interconnect, along with an on-die memory controller(less of an absolute advantage now that Intel has QPI and an on-die memory controller, rather than having to pretend that FSB was good enough; but still quite good for performance), they should do pretty well in VM boxes.

    29. Re:Why the hype? by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Those 8-core Bulldozer chips essentially have 4 FPU's and 32 ALU's.

      So against a 4-core Sandy they wont be able to compete on FPU work simply because Intel invested the space AMD is using for 4 more cores (aka 2 more modules) in kick-ass FPU's. The Bulldozer is going to look like crap next to the Sandy for FPU work. Period.

      But against those same 4-core Sandy's, the Bulldozers will likely completely dominate the integer scene. The Bulldozer will (reportedly) turbo to 4.2ghz when only using 4 cores. Even the best Sandy only turbos to 3.8ghz stock, and certainly doesnt do that with all 4 cores under load. Thats 4-threaded integer work at 4.2ghz for BD and only 3.4ghz for SB, or 8-threaded integer work at 3.2ghz for BD and 3.4ghz for SB but the Sandy shares ALU's when using more than 4 cores

      So all-in-all, the Bulldozer is going to rock if you dont do heavy FPU stuff, or offload that stuff to the GPU (video encoding is typically offloaded) but the Sandy will still rule of you are doing shit like Raytracing which isnt typically offloaded to GPU's.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    30. Re:Why the hype? by Jimbookis · · Score: 1

      I know someone who wrote a popular VST plugin and being a numbers n00b kept hitting the floating point denormal slowdown. I suggested he ditch floats and doubles and just use fixed point with careful scaling in each stage. He hadn't a clue what to do there and suffered the gripes from users about performance. That said, his plugin made wicked sounds. I'd say the musos plugins are somewhat poorly optimised.

    31. Re:Why the hype? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actually i hope to be using a IGP/APU to do openCL physics and AI calculations without burdening my discrete GPU with it in the near future.

      and actually AMD's APU's do pretty wel at casual 3d gaming, and even perform satisfactory in older 3d AAA games.

    32. Re:Why the hype? by Jimbookis · · Score: 1

      WTF? Is you effects software written in Javascript? Convolutions on an i7 should barely wake the CPU up let alone struggle. I think there is some sort of I/O problem instead. Does it use a frickin' spinning while() loop as a wait function for the next sample tick?

    33. Re:Why the hype? by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Apparently these people are using horribly written VST effects or something.

      Even large convolution kernels for 96000 samples per second (DVD quality stereo) should indeed barely wake up an i7 CPU. A machine that WILL execute between 2 and 6 billion instructions per second per thread should not *ever* be struggling with this workload. Hell, you could do a hundreds of large FFT's per second.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    34. Re:Why the hype? by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Judging by the responses, I think that you are right. The majority of VST plugins are apparently programmed by code donkeys.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    35. Re:Why the hype? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean doing a "netflix"?

    36. Re:Why the hype? by Methuseus · · Score: 1

      I'm sure there are some who enjoy handling penis all day long. Just because you don't, doesn't mean nobody does.

      --
      Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, though I'm not yet sure about the universe. - A Einstein
    37. Re:Why the hype? by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      Do people really believe that it'll be on-par with Sandy Bridge?

      We don't know! It might. It might not. Everyone hopes it will.

      Whether it wins or loses against Sandy Bridge, one thing's for sure: it's interesting. It sounds like you're still running MSDOS so you don't ever need any parallelism but for the rest of us, AMD has shown the future of hyperthreading and multi-core. It looks like the question of "should we split this piece up so that it can do n things at once?" may be on the table for every part of the CPU.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    38. Re:Why the hype? by GreatBunzinni · · Score: 1

      The issue of performance is, by the passing of each day, becoming increasingly irrelevant with the exception of very small niche areas. Meanwhile, for the past half a dozen years the processing power of any low/mid-end desktop processor is quite capable of providing more than enough processing power to take care of any computing need that any regular person may have. Browsing video clips online, browsing social network sites, handling office applications and communications are well-taken care by any processor. There is a reason why the people paid to push hardware and hardware reviews were forced to develop specialized programs to perform artificial, outlandish tests to be used as benchmarks on today's hardware: because the software which people do use doesn't even come near taxing the current hardware.

      If there is any doubt then just take a look at the market for desktop workstations: there isn't one. People who need computing power simply pick whatever hardware is already on any shelf on any generic electronics store, install their software and run it. I mean, years ago people paid thousands of euros for a workstation with multiple processors so that they could use CAD software and even specialized number crunching such as those employed in structural analysis programs, and even then the hardware was maxed out. Nowadays, you place the very same CAD software on a sub-500 euros laptop and everything runs smoothly. And finite element method software? In today's low/mid-end hardware it's possible to solve large systems of linear equations with over 30 thousand degrees of freedom in less than a minute, and in software which is single-threaded.

      So, again, performance has become largely irrelevant. Without marketing and fanboyism, if someone is faced with the choice of spending either 1000 euros or 200 euros on a processor and the only difference that they will notice is, say, that some task, when run on the 1000 euro processor, takes 2m0s to complete instead of 2m15s, no one in their right mind would spend an extra 800 euros just to get that sort of benefit.

      --
      Slashdot, fix your code or at least hire someone who is competent at it to do it for you.
    39. Re:Why the hype? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ever written code for a GPU? They suck for latency.

      The programming model basically runs as follows:
      1. Copy the GPU program across the PCI express to the card
      2. Copy the input data across the PCI express to the card
      3. Run the program on the data.
      4. Copy the results back across the PCI express

      The GPU cannot access system RAM, so to offload computation from the CPU to the GPU, you must copy the problem onto the card and the answer off the card. GPU's excel in high-throughput computing, where one input has one output, and there exists huge amounts of parallel computation in between. Real-time audio mixing is not like that. You have thousands of inherently fairly serial computations. Each of your computations is small, and you need the results of the intermediate computations, you can't process a whole song and then just get the answer at the end.

      By my estimate, in the time it took you to move a sample of audio across the bus and back (not even performing the computation) you could have done it on the CPU several times over.

    40. Re:Why the hype? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Planet Microsoft I suppose.

    41. Re:Why the hype? by 0123456 · · Score: 0

      Newegg.com offers the AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Black Edition for $189.99 right now, and that model is AMD's top desktop CPU right now.

      It eats a bit too much energy for my taste (125W TDP), but in price/performance it is a pretty nice CPU.

      Except an i5 will stomp on it, cost less and use only about 50W of power while doing so. I believe even a dual-core i3 typically beats the non-black edition hexacore Phenoms for not much more than $100.

    42. Re:Why the hype? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not Sandy Bridge thats AMD's problem, its intels upcoming Ivybridge and Sandy Bridge - E release they need to worry about. Ivybridge is the die shrink for Sandy Bridge and is apparently 30% more performance and will be the low cost alternative they need to beat (using the same LGA 1155 socket Sandy Brige currently uses and certain chipsets), where as the E release is their 8 core Sandy Bridge processor.

    43. Re:Why the hype? by Targon · · Score: 1

      Quad-core makes a huge difference when you are busy and doing many things at the same time. Yes, the i5 has a better core design, so is faster in most tasks, and that is why AMD has been hurting, except at the lower end of the market. Intel graphics are horrible, so for your average consumer that will never add a video card to their machine, a $500 AMD based machine will tend to be a bit better than a $500 Intel machine for "total experience". As you go up from there, AMD starts looking worse since you get systems with an Intel processor and an AMD or NVIDIA video card that clearly give Intel the edge.

      That is why Bulldozer is so important, because if AMD can get 25% better performance per clock with the same number of cores compared to earlier chips and can do it for less money, that will really help extend the price range for where AMD is competitive. There have been other reports that Bulldozer is able to beat the i7-2500 in overall performance. Even if extra cores are required, if the overall benchmarks give AMD the lead at the same price point, that really will help make for a competitive environment.

      When it comes to processor power draw, you also have to compare how the companies measure these things. AMD rates chips on max power draw, not sustained power draw. So a 125W AMD chip may only be drawing 50W, but it can go up to 125W. In this case, we are looking at an eight-core processor, so if you think it will draw the same amount of power as a four-core processor, that's not realistic. We shall see what the real numbers look like when the chips are officially launched.

    44. Re:Why the hype? by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      processors from 10 years ago were fast enough to surf the web, chat, and write documents

      Only if you do one thing at a time, with nothing else running in the background, and you never switch between programs mid-task. And that includes never leaving a web page with Flash ads running.

      Otherwise, I think that multi-core becoming cheap around 2006-2007 is the big change. A 1.5GHz single-core CPU is always going to feel sluggish because the CPU is constantly pegging at 100% busy, with no place to put the overflow work. Switch do a dual or quad core CPU, even at a slower clock rate (2 cores @ 800MHz) and responsiveness goes way up.

      If my 1.5GHz laptop from 2003-2004 had been multi-core, I might still be using it. But the dual-core Thinkpad that I replaced it with in 2007 is just a whole lot more enjoyable to work with. And I suspect that I won't be upgrading again until 2012-2014.

      (SSDs getting cheaper is going to be the next major shift. Once you get used to a system with an SSD, it's really hard to go back to using a 7200 or 5400 RPM hard drive as the primary disk.)

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    45. Re:Why the hype? by Targon · · Score: 1

      You mean multi-threading. HyperThreading is an Intel term for running two threads at a time on one core and "tricking" the OS into thinking there are twice as many cores as there really are. It does help performance in heavily threaded applications, but if you compare eight real cores to four cores that look like eight, and you improve performance so those eight real cores are competitive per-clock with Intel cores, there's a big advantage.

      $320 for an 8-core processor that I think starts at 3.8GHz(not the 3.2GHz mentioned in this article), and that's sounding pretty good.

    46. Re:Why the hype? by dwillmore · · Score: 1

      According to: http://techreport.com/articles.x/19514 the peak FLOP should be the same between a BD 'module' and a SNB 'core' if the BD is using FMA4/AVX and the SNB is using plain AVX.

      To get maximum performance, you're going to have to code in assembly or use a library that's been coded that way. I expect programs like Prime95 will be first adopters of this.

      Supposedly, Haswell (the full tick after IVB) will have FMA3/AVX which should double the FLOP rate and surpass BD, but that's some time out, so we'll have to see what BD does in the mean time. By then, we could see a shrink of BD with more 'modules' or clock speed improvements. Best to worry about those eggs at least until they're laid if not hatched.

    47. Re:Why the hype? by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      That said, it takes 15 minutes or so to rip a DVD into a 1GB MKV file on my Core i7 laptop. In other words, we are well beyond the point where most consumers will see CPU speed being a limiting factor in everything they want to do.

      Try the same thing with a Blu-Ray where you do any amount of image processing during the transcode. I had one movie where each pass took 10 hours. Admittedly, that's pathological, but it usually takes me about 1.5x real time per pass (so about 6 total hours for a 2 hour movie).

      I'm not counting the time it takes to actually rip the Blu-Ray to the hard drive for the transcoding work...that's only about 30 minutes on most movies.

    48. Re:Why the hype? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All the drawbacks you mentioned are precisely what AMD try to eliminate with there new fusion architecture. In the future generation of fusion, the CPU and GPU will access the same virtual memory. This would make the call latency of a GPU process as fast as calling a process in an other CPU core.

      In the long long term, the X86(_64) legacy will probably lives only in the decoding stage of the chip that supply a massive array of schedulers and execution units.

    49. Re:Why the hype? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where I work we have several big dollar electronic simulators. Solving a problem on these is cycle intensive.
      I know of several designers that could chew up a beowulf cluster, (sorry, just had to do it), of either the best of Intel or AMD, spit it out, and still be hungry for more cycles.

    50. Re:Why the hype? by TheTyrannyOfForcedRe · · Score: 1

      WTF? Is you effects software written in Javascript? Convolutions on an i7 should barely wake the CPU up let alone struggle. I think there is some sort of I/O problem instead. Does it use a frickin' spinning while() loop as a wait function for the next sample tick?

      My musician friend regularly runs into limits doing audio work on his i7. He runs the premier DAW (digital audio workstation) software and uses only professional VST's so amateur code isn't the problem.

      You seriously underestimate the math that needs to be done to do realtime audio production with synthesized and effected instruments.

      --
      "Liechtenstein is the world's largest producer of sausage casings, potassium storage units, and false teeth."
    51. Re:Why the hype? by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      I stand corrected on the Intel trademark abuse.

      if you compare eight real cores to four cores that look like eight, and you improve performance so those eight real cores are competitive per-clock with Intel cores, there's a big advantage.

      Competitive per-dollar. That's why HyperThreading wasn't necessarily a bad idea: of course it wasn't as fast as multicore but it was a lot easier/cheaper. (Cheaper for Intel; I'm not talking about their chips' prices, especially at the time they introduced P4.)

      There's a tradeoff, and what makes Bulldozer exciting is that they're saying multi-core (as we know it in mid 2011) and Intel's HyperThreading both get it wrong, optimizing die size at the expense of performance or vice-versa. AMD is taking this tradeoff's optimization to a new level of granularity and I think that's very cool, whether or not this iteration is a winner.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    52. Re:Why the hype? by kevinmenzel · · Score: 1

      Isn't the question though more one of "does the algorithm actually make sense on GPU hardware"? Because the few people in the audio field that seem to be doing CUDA VST plugins say that many of the more complex algorithms actually involve very small, very serial operations. Though audio benefits from having multiple cores, because any given track of audio is going to be processed in parallel from another given track, it's not like they're processed at all similarly... I honestly don't know much about how a GPU works, but are they particularly good at doing lots of completely different parallel tasks that are generally fairly serial in and of themselves in nature?

    53. Re:Why the hype? by kevinmenzel · · Score: 1

      Yup, that'd be the kind of person I am. I guess I should have been more specific.

    54. Re:Why the hype? by kevinmenzel · · Score: 1

      Try looking at some of the stuff done by some of the more intense plugins from Waves. There's a lot of complicated stuff that goes on in plugins these days, because the point (from an engineer/producer's point of view) is not simply to change the sound, but to achieve a specific sound they hear in their head and realize that in actuality. Thus many effects are very dynamic, and more and more offer the ability to model prohibitively expensive real world equipment in software. Not an easy thing to do! When you start having to care about all of the specific analog tenancies of particular vacuum tubes, across wide varieties of input volume and frequency... For instance, one new plugin that Waves has developed is MPX. Essentially it's an analog tape simulator. Do you think the math to simulate all of the effects of analog tape is simple? Guitar rig simulators can be very similar. You have to model each real-world component you're providing to the end user, and allow them to tie them together in relatively arbitrary fashion. A guitar signal chain through a computer might have the computer modeling a tube compressor, an analog distortion pedal, an analog stereo tape delay, two amps, two cabs, 4 mics (two per cab) with specific frequency and positioning characteristics, not only including modeling the orientation, but also where they would be placed on a real speaker..., and allow you to modify any of those settings on the fly - and you don't think that takes some serious CPU power? And that's a relatively simple signal chain - for only one input!

    55. Re:Why the hype? by Bengie · · Score: 1

      HT adds about 10% more transistors, adding twice as many cores uses 100% more transistors. Being that an HT type CPU design is typically slightly slower or just as fast, going back with the old 1 core = 1 thread is just not competitive.

      You have to realize that modern super-scalar Out-of-Order cores have lots of execution units that are usually idle. Adding an extra 10-20% transistors to make use of those idle units just seems like a good idea. Under many work loads, you can almost double your performance.

      AMD's design uses more transistors but has fewer contended units. AMD's design is probably better until you save enough transistors to add extra cores.

    56. Re:Why the hype? by Bengie · · Score: 1

      My brother bought a 45nm i7-920, OC'd it to 4.2ghz. He loaded Prime95 and did an 8 thread stress test. His motherboard had a tool to tell your the amount of joules your CPU is using. It peaked about 130 joules and that was heavily OC'd and over-voltaged.

      Now that's not making use of all the SIMD, so I'm sure the absolute peak would be higher, but Prime95 does give a good stress test by loading the FPU.

      The i7-920 officially has a 125watt TDP. I'm sure Intel only lists peak also.

    57. Re:Why the hype? by Bengie · · Score: 1

      I did a 5 minute Fraps dump while playing a game. I loaded up VirtualDub after and re-encoded into xVid 1080p with all the pre and post processing options it had and quality set to max. 55% cpu, ~50fps and my HD was pegged transferring 60MB/sec. The resulting video was flawless.

      That was with the slowest i7 sold, the i7-920. I would love to see an Ivy Bridge with 8 cores, 50% more clock, and AVX crunching that. Probably need an SSD to handle the IO. I would assume well over 100fps. Probably closing in on 200fps.

    58. Re:Why the hype? by adolf · · Score: 1

      I don't know how your household works, but in mine my wife and I compete for desktop PC geek points amongst ourselves and our friends, and neither of us are teenaged boys.

      And...phones? Seriously? If I'm interested in performance for whatever task I'm doing, I probably also am interested in a display larger than my hand (along with a real keyboard, and a real mouse, and real accessories).

      I don't game on my phone much, because when I'm out and about, I'm simply not bored much. Whether working or driving or walking through the forest, I've almost always got better things to do than sit in solitude away from home and play a game: There's always things and people to see and do, even when I'm out of town.

      My "old" Motorola Droid generally does just fine (except sometimes I wish it had more RAM). (Oh, and interestingly, RAM is the last thing folks seem to brag about in the phone market. It's all about gee-whiz 3D displays, multi-core CPUs, and video chips to accelerate the 3D games that generally don't even exist.)

      Meanwhile: In the evening when I'm bored at home, I've got a desktop and an extremely comfortable chair.

      And it's always been about performance and cost: Even in the best of economies, people don't generally throw around money like fools. Only fairly recently has heat (and therefore power consumption) been even a moderate concern in a home environment, but that may have more to do with the TDP of CPUs and GPUs going through the roof compared to 15 years ago than anything else.

      *shrug*

    59. Re:Why the hype? by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      You are still thinking raw CPU power still matters. In a world where even web browsers are 3D accelerated, the GPU suddenly becomes extremely important, even more than the CPU

      Intel integrated graphics is enough for Aero, 99% of the flash videos and games in the internet, and more.

      If Bobcat and Llano are any indication, AMD will integrate a GPU that will be at least 2-4 times faster than the GPU in Sandy Bridge while consuming the same amount of power. And if some of the reviews I read are correct, the integrated AMD GPU will be able to work together with the discrete GPU for a 30-70% performance boost.

      There is an extremely limited number of discrete GPUs the APUs can work together with. For Llano, it's just 4 discrete GPUs. And these 4 are not even the fastest of today.

      Now if someone buys a high end system with a discrete GPU, Bobcat will still be faster, because the integrated GPU will work with the discrete GPU

      The consumer market can be divided into the following segments :

      1. Hardcore Gamers : Sandy/Ivy bridge are better. Gamers will never settle with integrated graphics of Llano (even though it is 2-4 times better than Intel integrated graphics). Nor will they use the 4 GPUs Llano works with. They will also upgrade their GPUs at thrice the frequency of upgrading the CPUs - and all the upgraded GPU will be unable to work with their APUs. Better go with Intel, simply not use the integrated graphics but get the fastest GPU they can afford and keep upgrading as frequently as possible. This is 1% of the market but the profitable part of the market.

      2. Web / facebook / email / MS word : Sandy/Ivy Bridge integrated graphics is and will be more than adequate. In fact, Llano's integrated graphics is an overkill for such things. In return, they can get faster CPU for occasional CPU intensive tasks. It is years before mainstream software will start using GPU power for general computing. This is 95% of the market, though not much profit per consumer here.

      3. Specialized consumer : Uses specialized professional software or unusual in other respects. Such consumer may or may not prefer Llano - depending on their multi-tasking requirement. Llano excels at multi-tasking, but very few people really work on more than one task at a time - and when they do work on it rarely they can see some delay there to see benefit in their 99% workload.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    60. Re:Why the hype? by Sheepy · · Score: 1

      I was briefly disappointed when I ran Bouncing Babies after upgrading from my '086, but it was funny at the same time.

    61. Re:Why the hype? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The coarse mesh aircraft wing finite element models we sometimes run at work have ~150,000 elements and 10,000 load cases.
      You go ahead and run that on your low end laptop; I won't be paying you for the waste of time though.

  5. What's your objective here? by tyrione · · Score: 1

    Are you showing that it's a fraud, like the article cited or just to get clicks like your own Headline shows? A bit of both, eh?

  6. How by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How did a story about an article about faked leaked info make it to the front page?

    1. Re:How by Jeng · · Score: 1

      Why do you feel that it shouldn't be there?

      I definitely see the benefit of having this article presented on the front page. Why just think of how much better this article is than the one with the bad information.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
  7. Submitter karma ? by billcopc · · Score: 0

    I think stories, i.e. submitters should have karma. I want to downvote this tripe so bad...

    --
    -Billco, Fnarg.com
    1. Re:Submitter karma ? by Jeng · · Score: 1

      Although I don't agree with you that this article is tripe, I do agree with you that we should be able to give slashdot some direct feedback about the quality of the articles.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
  8. Already proved on the high end by dbIII · · Score: 1

    For some things that run well in parallel their current 4 way 12 core processors released some time ago are better than the newly released Sandy Bridge - so OF COURSE it COULD be better. Whether the consumer CPU is as good or not as good is something that will be worth seeing. If it's nowhere near as good but a lot cheaper that will also be worth seeing.

    1. Re:Already proved on the high end by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think most here are missing the forest for the trees. Unless you are a Crysis playing ePeen "must win teh benchmarks!" type AMD doesn't have to win all they have to be is "good enough" which I would argue they currently are and these new chips will simply make it better.

      I currently have a Deneb AMD quad as my main home machine and slam the living hell out of it. Video transcoding, using it as a Win 7 DVR, playing games for hours, often WHILE transcoding or recording and you know what? it works great. And I'm a hardcore case, most folks still only do one task at a time, be it gaming, browsing, whatever. Now most importantly I have a machine that will do all that, as well as take a 6 core later on if I wish, with 1.5Tb of HDDs and 8Gb of RAM and an HD4850 and the whole smash, including Win 7 HP X64? Less than $600 after MIR.

      And THAT is what matters especially in a dead economy. Folks want a reasonably powerful machine that will last them for years and won't break their wallets and AMD frankly gives them overkill for cheap. I have built fully loaded triples that crank out the video at 1080p all day long for less than $450, quads less than $500 and thanks to how long AMD sticks with sockets if 5 years down the road they decide they want a little more oomph I can pick them up a cheap OEM and just drop it in.

      I have found for the jobs the vast majority of folks that walk into my shop have "good enough" was passed with the dual core chips but thanks to AMD for nearly the same money they can go triple or quad which just gives them more years of service without slowdown. Hell the prices are so cheap i built my dad a quad for home. Does he need a quad? Oh hell no, he still single tasks everything like it is 1993! But by going quad I know that no matter how much crap like messenger he ends up running in the task bar he'll never lose responsiveness, and this machine will probably last him the rest of his life.

      So unless you are trying to do the super heavy lifting like multiple compiles or hardcore video editing (which I'll admit there is more guys here that do such hardcore CPU pounding than the general pop by a long shot) then all the extra $$$ you spend by going Intel is simply wasted money. I'd say as long as AMD can stay even within a third of the performance of the Intel chips they'll be "good enough" for the vast majority, and having nice low prices simply seals the deal.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    2. Re:Already proved on the high end by Rudeboy777 · · Score: 2

      AMD doesn't have to win all they have to be is "good enough"

      If you've been paying attention, this strategy is working wonders in the OEM market. Have you looked at the Best Buy flyer in the past couple months? Nearly half the laptops are:

      AMD E-350
      3-4GB RAM
      500GB HD
      15.6" screen

      There'll be one each for Toshiba, Acer, HP, etc, but the stats are identical and the price (~$400) is eye-popping. We're about to see some serious marketshare slide in AMD's favour if we haven't already.

      --

      From hell's heart I fstab at /dev/hdc

    3. Re:Already proved on the high end by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Isn't it just crazy? If you haven't played with one yet you really should. I picked up the MSI Wind AMD netbook for my dad about a year ago when they first started hitting. This thing came with 3Gb of RAM, an HD4350 GPU, 1.8GHz dual core, 300Gb HDD, it does full 1080P over HDMI without a sweat, hardware accelerated everything, for the hell of it I even loaded the latest Deer hunter for dad and tried it on his 50 inch widescreen. Smooth as butter. the price? $420 shipped. Its just nuts!

      And of course that one is only getting about 5 hours on a battery, the new APU based ones get another 30% from what I've read while having even higher video and gaming ability. I recently had to take my mom to the Wally world and while she shopped I hit the electronics. I'd say a good 65% or more of the desktops and laptops were AMD. I stopped and asked a friend that works there and he said they sell like hotcakes because you get so much for the price. The few Intel ones they had had worse specs for a good 30% markup.

      So I think we'll be seeing real growth in AMD in the coming quarters. The sad part is look how quickly AMD was able to come in once Intel was banned from bribing OEMs. Think about how far AMD designs would be ahead if Intel wouldn't have been able to pull that shit. Hell they would probably still have their fabs if Intel wouldn't have been able to rig the market like that. I just hope the EU busts their ass, because it is pretty obvious with our currently corrupted system you can do whatever the hell you want in the USA and never get hit with antitrust. Hell if the MSFT case was done today not only wouldn't they have gotten busted, they probably would have been given a tax break for doing it!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  9. Octal? by Shag · · Score: 0

    But don't most modern CPUs use hexadecimal?

    --
    Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
    1. Re:Octal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, but that is base 16. So it must therefore allocate two numbers per core. 1st core handles all the 1s and 2s, second core all the 3s and 4s etc and the eight core all the Es and Fs. It makes perfect sense, really.

    2. Re:Octal? by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      CPU:s are binary, then we use Octal or Hex to represent the contents of the binary structure because it's more convenient.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    3. Re:Octal? by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      octal never seemed that convenient to me.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    4. Re:Octal? by Afell001 · · Score: 1

      Far more convenient than binary...

    5. Re:Octal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DEC used octal because most of their early mini computers had word lengths that would divide evenly by 3. Machines such as the 18 bit PDP15, the 12 bit PDP8, and the 36 bit PDP10. When they made the 16 bit PDP11 they STILL used Octal, but now the most significant digit was ONLY a '1' or a '0'. The instruction word format broke down into three bit fields though so they used octal. The 32 bit VAX was the only machine that DEC used Hexadecimal notation for, it's instruction word broke down into 4 bit fields.

      Some early Intel documentation used octal for the 8008 and 8080 processors, again the instruction words break down into 3 bit fields. Eventually though the documentation changed over the hex.

    6. Re:Octal? by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      I use binary at work all the time. I only use octal to do chmod.

      could you please give an example of how octal is more convenient than binary?

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  10. Names by rossdee · · Score: 0

    Bulldozer is not exactly a synonym for high speed, low energy consumption and compact size.

    1. Re:Names by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, they should have went with Killdozer!

  11. Blame the sell-outs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    In 1996, Digital Equipment Corporation had a Alpha processor fabricated in a bad process uncorrected until 1999 that otherwise had the potential to play Doom3 in SOFTWARE RENDERING. Despite the corrected process reaching the same processor, this is the first company ever to reach 1GHz and was done in 1999, but it could've been done in 1996. The $10k workstation, made in America, and still had more potential than AMD and Intel but they were sold-out by Compaq and Hewlet-Packard.

    1. Re:Blame the sell-outs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, where can I read more about this?

    2. Re:Blame the sell-outs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wikipedia doesn't say anything about a "bad process", but it's clear that Alpha beat Intel compatibles due to better processor design even though intel-compatibles had the edge on manufacturing process.

    3. Re:Blame the sell-outs. by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 1

      In 1996, Digital Equipment Corporation had a Alpha processor fabricated in a bad process uncorrected until 1999 that otherwise had the potential to play Doom3 in SOFTWARE RENDERING. Despite the corrected process reaching the same processor, this is the first company ever to reach 1GHz and was done in 1999, but it could've been done in 1996. The $10k workstation, made in America, and still had more potential than AMD and Intel but they were sold-out by Compaq and Hewlet-Packard.

      Meanwhile Intel released the Pentium Pro architecture and its successors, which had a price/performance ratio competitive with Alpha, but could run the software people already had. With this, the Alpha was duly relegated to the dustbin of history.

    4. Re:Blame the sell-outs. by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      The $10k workstation, made in America, and still had more potential than AMD and Intel

      No, AMD (and much later, Intel) proved they had more potential: the $1k workstation.

      It's mostly all about bang-for-buck, not just bang. The bang-at-any-price market is small, which is why DEC got bought rather than doing the buying.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  12. MAX 4.2ghz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that sucks my 6 yr old box is 3ghz not much better for the price i bet you can get 4 3ghz vs 3 of these

    1. Re:MAX 4.2ghz by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      And what are you doing that actually requires that 3GHz? I am currently typing this on an Arrandale-based laptop with a core speed of 1.2GHz and it is plenty fast enough and responsive enough for everything I want to throw at it. If you'd rather wiki the exact specs of my processor, go right ahead. It's a Celeron U3600. I'm not doing any high end gaming on this system (and believe it or not, most computer owners aren't gamers), so it really doesn't need much more oomph than it currently has.

      And for the gaming market... how many threads are you running on that 6 year old 3GHz processor? 2 at most? And that's assuming it's a Pentium D with Hyperthreading? I have a year-and-a-half old Core i7 laptop that runs 8 threads at the same time, with a core speed of 2.93GHz. Newer processors can run even more threads. For *most* computer use, it's not the speed that matters, it's the number of threads you can run at that speed.

    2. Re:MAX 4.2ghz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You think the proc in your old box is in any way comparable to a brand new octal core processor?

      Cant we have like a geek test or something to post here? Shit... I mean the retards keep creeping in and lowering the overall intelligence of the group.

    3. Re:MAX 4.2ghz by Targon · · Score: 1

      If you read the other responses, you would see that there is a lot of really questionable stuff here that makes the leaked information worthless. There was a known issue in the pre-release Bulldozer cores that crippled performance, which is a big part of why the release was delayed. Now, you clearly have no knowledge of CPU design if you think that clock speed alone is an indicator of performance. Intel has been beating AMD at the same clock speed for a while now due to differences in design, not clock speed. A 2.2GHz Athlon 64 was around as fast as a 3.8GHz Pentium 4 in real-world situations, and many clueless people just couldn't wrap their heads around that idea.

      The big question will be what sort of performance improvements the Bulldozer core design has brought to the table compared to previous generations. Since 4-core versions will be available, that would help eliminate core count differences and would set things up for a straight drop-in CPU replacement for benchmarking. Still, if you don't think that a 3GHz processor today is faster than a 3GHz processor from six years ago, you really need to try doing a real-world comparison.

    4. Re:MAX 4.2ghz by Targon · · Score: 1

      On a high-speed connection, web browsing renders pages faster on a faster processor, you have e-mail, plus a word processor, Quickbooks, all running at the same time comfortably. Just because you do very little with your machine doesn't mean that others use their computers like an overgrown tablet and only do one thing at the same time.

    5. Re:MAX 4.2ghz by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      And what are you doing that actually requires that 3GHz?

      Dwarf Fortress, once you get past 150-200 dwarves.

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    6. Re:MAX 4.2ghz by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      And everything you listed will benefit far more from having multiple slower cores than a single mammoth core. You could be running a 6GHz processor, and if it's single threaded single core, then my 1.2GHz dual core Celeron will be more responsive. That's the point I was making... you don't need single faster cores. 300MHz is plenty fast enough for every task you listed, if you're only doing one at a time. If you want the best responsiveness, you want tasks + 1 cores... one core dedicated to each task, and another core to handle the system calls and resource management. Since you're unlikely to find a 100+ core system on the consumer market right now, however, you make do with smaller numbers of cores with higher than needed clock speeds.

      But if you seriously believe I can't have open multiple programs at the same time, all doing different things, and use them effectively on this system, you need to reexamine your operating system. I have 4 virtual desktops set up right now... on desktop 0 I have a web browser full screen (3 tabs open, this one, gmail, and facebook). Desktop 1 I have multiple IM conversations going on at the same time. Desktop 2 currently has the background chooser and theme browser open, because I'm working on a new theme for e17, and Desktop 3 has file manager and VLC providing some music to work by (currently playing The Story of the Clash volume 1, disc 1, from a network share... This is Radio Clash as I type this). I have no reason to have a spreadsheet or word processor open at the moment, but could easily add it to any of the above desktops if I felt so inclined without taxing my system in the least, as there's plenty of desktop space available to me, and if I really wanted to, I could add more virtual desktops with relative ease. Add on top of that desktop compositing and effects through e17's Ecomorph (a port of compiz/fusion). And yet my CPU fan isn't on, and the CPU meter tells me that the system has actually underclocked both cores to 600MHz because it doesn't need the extra horsepower at the moment. It's not a question of saving the battery, either, because I'm on mains at the moment, it's a question of having more than enough horsepower available to me for the tasks I'm throwing at the system... on a dual core 1.2GHz Celeron.

  13. Article pic looks more like Google Earth satphoto. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks more like a photograph from a satelite by Google Earth, rather than a Photoshopped image. See for yourself, http://hothardware.com/newsimages/Item18029/Orochi.jpg

  14. possessive apostrophe by epine · · Score: 1

    This is why company's work hard to control how and when information is shared with the public.

    Sometimes you just can't help yourself.

    From What's a Metaphor For?:

    New research in the social and cognitive sciences makes it increasingly plain that metaphorical thinking influences our attitudes, beliefs, and actions in surprising, hidden, and often oddball ways.

  15. Good fit for the mac mini over the i3 or i5 by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    As the mini needs better then the i3 / i5 on board video and for apple to go from nvidia on board video to intel is a side grade at best.

    1. Re:Good fit for the mac mini over the i3 or i5 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A bulldozer-type llano-apu type APU in a mac mini would be super neat.

  16. MHz and Cores are what sell a CPU by TPoise · · Score: 1

    Nobody cares if Farmville or Facebook will only utilize one core. When folks have the money, they are going to buy the fastest CPU available. Only the budget conscious person is going to ask themselves if they will utilize all those cores or even need that many megahertz (and possibly higher TDP). When they are at their local BestBuy, the sales person is going to pitch them the latest Quad-Core or Octal-Core machine "because your college-bound daughter need it for running Microsoft Word". Going forward, there will be no choice from AMD/Intel but to have a multi-core machine at 3+GHz. Even though a low-end Via will be fine for most folks at a fraction of the cost, it won't be commercially available at the local electronics stores. Related Analogy: Americans still buy fast cars even though the speed limit is 70mph in most places. Just about every modern car nowadays is capable of going at least 100mph even though most urban folks average 30-35mph in their daily commute

  17. It was a few minor chip defects from the process by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, the Alpha had a few minor defects only due to the fabrication process. They benchmarked this CPU design and got awesome results even when it was at 1/3 of it's potential in 1996. When Intel had a 60MHz 32-bit Pentium (the one with a 50MHz 64bit bus and can't do FPU math) and they just migrated away from 486, DEC had a 400MHz 64-bit Alpha (with a 60MHz 128-bit bus) that was re-implemented to another motherboard chipset at 633MHz (with 256-bit 85MHz bus) in the next fab. When the defects were recognized in 1999 then that SAME CPU DESIGN was changed from 21164 to 21264 and the pricetag was kept the same and hit 1GHz in the lab. Meaning: yea, they had a 64-bit 1GHz processor as early as 1995/1996, while Intel barely released their junky 150MHz Pentium non-MMX processor.

    Also, DEC was using SDRAM, at full potential of the Memory Controller, even was doubling the banks to increase transport, while Intel was only moving what seemed like a quarter of the potential even at the time when using EDO DRAM. In other words, Intel particularly has been holding back modern computing development to the Moor's Law when DEC gave the Universe to Moor's Law. Intel has charged heavy prices for every hair-line of "innovation" on products that die within two to 5 years, meanwhile my DEC 164LX 533MHz Motherboard is still kicking since 1994 and has accelerated openGL from a Radeon 9100 graphics accelerator made around 1999.

    What. the. f*ck. has Intel been doing all this time, other than fumbling everyone with their hundreds of different revisions to their shitty multi-core chips? I can tell you straight-out: they're fleacing the buyer.