Microsoft Developer Made the Most Changes To Linux 3.0 Code

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Microsoft Developer Made the Most Changes To Linux 3.0 Code

Posted by Soulskill on Saturday July 16, 2011 @12:23PM from the truth-is-stranger-than-fiction dept.

sfcrazy sends this quote from the H: "The 343 changes made by Microsoft developer K. Y. Srinivasan put him at the top of a list, created by LWN.net, of developers who made the most changes in the current development cycle for Linux 3.0. Along with a number of other 'change sets,' Microsoft provided a total of 361 changes, putting it in seventh place on the list of companies and groups that contributed code to the Linux kernel. By comparison, independent developers provided 1,085 change sets to Linux 3.0, while Red Hat provided 1,000 and Intel 839."

348 comments

Community Myth by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 12:23 · Score: -1, Troll

I wish people would get over this myth of Linux being a community effort of users putting their minds together. It hasn't been this way since the late 90's. Most Linux development comes from corporations who could care less about GPL or open source. Everybody has their hand in the cookie jar at this point. Everyone except Canonical, which is hilarious...Microsoft has now contributed more to Linux development than the entire lot of fools running that plagarist distro. It is not user-driven innovation any longer. For that you have to look at Haiku or the *BSDs.
1. Re:Community Myth by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 12:30 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  I wish people would get over this myth that "could care less" means that you couldn't care less.
2. Re:Community Myth by mhogomchungu · 2011-07-16 13:02 · Score: 2
  
  Linux is still "a community effort of users putting their minds together". There may have been a shift from the community made up mostly of individuals to corporations but it is still, a community.
  
  Does it matter if a contributor is an individual, an individual contributing on behalf of a company or company contributing as long as the code is of good quality, is offered in ways that agrees with the norms of the community and does not violate any license used by the community? Microsoft is contributing code because they are either using linux or they have people they are supporting who are using it hence they are part of the community effort. It doesnt matter how little any individual or company cares about the GPL, all it matters is that they conduct themselves in a way that does not violate it.
3. Re:Community Myth by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 13:12 · Score: -1
  
  I wish people would get over this myth that idioms can't change and there's no such thing as colloquialisms.
4. Re:Community Myth by retchdog · 2011-07-16 13:22 · Score: -1, Offtopic
  
  it's called sarcasm (or irony if you wish). do you have a problem with sarcasm in general? if not, then what's wrong with a sarcastic idiom?
  
  --
  "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
5. Re:Community Myth by rtb61 · 2011-07-16 13:29 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Contributions to Linux take many forms. Code-centric people only view contributions to the Linux kernel as contributions to Linux. Far more aware people, take contributions to Linux being amongst the following,
  contributions to GNU (something you obviously need to look up),
  contributions to Linux compatible hardware drivers,
  contributions to Linux documentation,
  contributions to Linux based graphical users interfaces,
  contributions to Linux compatible applications,
  contributions to graphics design including icons, appearance, fonts, screens savers, layouts,
  contributions to marketing and promotion,
  contributions to Linux protecting patents,
  contributions to service and support,
  contributions to the Linuc user community,
  and of course contributions to Linux based distribution without which Linux would not exist as an operating system rather than just a kernel.
  Seriously only a real asshat would take all those contributions and treat them as nothing either that or a microtroll. It amazes me that after all these years how people still fail to understand how a community developed product like Linux comes into being, how all contributions small and large are highly regarded (the value being in the sharing) and how contributions of individuals are valued (even those employed by M$, M$ did you create code, those people employed by M$ did).
  From your selfish self centred viewpoint, it appears that I must apologise for using Linux whilst not being a good enough coder to contribute to the kernel. So "I am sorry", my coding sucks and my others contributions to Linux are not good enough to appease you. Of course to the rest of the Linux community I say thank you for all the contributions made no matter how great or small.
  
  --
  Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
6. Re:Community Myth by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 13:31 · Score: 0
  
  We're talking drivers here, so of course the contributions come from other companies. This is all about hardware abstraction, not end user GUI's.
7. Re:Community Myth by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 13:31 · Score: 0
  
  I wish people would get under it.
8. Re:Community Myth by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 13:40 · Score: 0, Insightful
  
  This just makes me think of how, if you call someone out for being incredibly stupid, they just go "LOLOLOL I TROLLED YOU GOOD" in order to save face.
  Where was that one picture....
9. Re:Community Myth by causality · 2011-07-16 13:50 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Linux is still "a community effort of users putting their minds together". There may have been a shift from the community made up mostly of individuals to corporations but it is still, a community. Does it matter if a contributor is an individual, an individual contributing on behalf of a company or company contributing as long as the code is of good quality, is offered in ways that agrees with the norms of the community and does not violate any license used by the community? Microsoft is contributing code because they are either using linux or they have people they are supporting who are using it hence they are part of the community effort. It doesnt matter how little any individual or company cares about the GPL, all it matters is that they conduct themselves in a way that does not violate it.
  I will tell you what really makes me personally feel like I am participating in a community. For most Open Source software I have used, if I have a question or a suggestion or simply some feedback, I can usually communicate directly with the maintainer or lead developer of the project. They are accessible. They are fellow human beings, not corporate conglomerates. There are no layers of sales reps or receptionists or PR personnel. Sometimes I send an e-mail just to say "thank you" for the simple reason that they owe me absolutely nothing, yet I benefit from the work they have chosen to make freely available.
  
  It would be like calling up Microsoft and speaking directly to Ballmer about Windows. No regular Microsoft customer is ever going to do that. That's the difference between a community and a conglomerate. That, and with most Linux distributions users help each other as much as (if not more than) organizations provide formal support.
  
  --
  It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
10. Re:Community Myth by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 14:07 · Score: 0
  
  Because when it's source is clearly a mistaken use of a more common idiom, and when people read it and think "idiot" because it makes the user look stupid for making a mistake in a common idiom, then maybe it is not such a good idea overall.
  Plus, I don't think for a second that most users use it sarcastically. They use it because they don't think it through.
11. Re:Community Myth by fnj · 2011-07-16 14:08 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  No, it's called illiteracy.
12. Re:Community Myth by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 14:11 · Score: 0
  
  It's not sarcasm, it's just stupid people who don't know what they are saying.
13. Re:Community Myth by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 14:19 · Score: 0
  
  Depends, I use it sometimes knowing full well its sarcastic and peeves people like you off, then again, it is funny watching idiots use it none the wiser.
14. Re:Community Myth by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2011-07-16 14:25 · Score: 0, Offtopic
  
  I wish people would get over this myth of Linux being a community effort of users putting their minds together. (Score:1, Interesting)
  
  I wish people would get over this myth that "could care less" means that you couldn't care less.(Score:4, Informative)
  I wish people would get over the myth that mod points should be spent more on grammar nazi'ism than the topic at hand.
  
  --
  
  "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
15. Re:Community Myth by retchdog · 2011-07-16 14:31 · Score: 0
  
  yeah, i feel the same way about people who use the wrong "its".
  but seriously, the "could care less" form is the more common version now, for good or ill. should it matter if each user doesn't think it through? assuming that the phrase came about first through sarcastic use and then normalized, the meaning is nonetheless obvious to all. i just don't see the problem.
  
  --
  "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
16. Re:Community Myth by icannotthinkofaname · 2011-07-16 14:32 · Score: 0
  
  I'm sorry, but I just can't get behind that idea.
  
  --
  Let q be a radix > 1. I am in ur base-q, killing 10 d00ds.
17. Re:Community Myth by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 14:32 · Score: 0
  
  I wish people would get over this myth of Linux being a community effort of users putting their minds together. It hasn't been this way since the late 90's. Most Linux development comes from corporations who could care less about GPL or open source. Everybody has their hand in the cookie jar at this point.
  This is a BIG WIN for the community: we forced the big players to stop ignoring us. While their input is important, it did not kill the community at all. Even MS feels the need to co-operate and "Embrace, Expand and Extinguish" will not work because we indeed are a community, and one which has the safeguards (the GPL etc...) against "EEE" build in from the start at that.
18. Re:Community Myth by NoobixCube · 2011-07-16 14:56 · Score: 1
  
  If I could care less about something, it means I care to some measure already.
  
  --
  Admit it. You post strawman arguments as AC so you get modded Insightful for refuting them, rather than Troll
19. Re:Community Myth by Idbar · 2011-07-16 15:12 · Score: 1
  
  Most Linux development comes from corporations who could care less about GPL or open source.
  Technically, if most of the development comes from corporations. They certainly could care less, because they seem to "care" at least a bit to develop for Linux. Perhaps, It doesn't mean what you want it to mean. But doesn't sound completely incoherent in this context.
20. Re:Community Myth by colinrichardday · 2011-07-16 15:30 · Score: 2
  
  yeah, i feel the same way about people who use the wrong "its".
  Does that include the authors of the US Constitution? Article I, Section 10, Paragraph 2: http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution.html
  
  No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.
  And yes, the apostrophe is in the original.
21. Re:Community Myth by retchdog · 2011-07-16 15:41 · Score: 2
  
  to be fair, we're talking about the scribe and not the founding fathers themselves.
  and so, as for Jacob Shallus... well, he didn't have a backspace key but nevertheless, yes, i look back upon him disfavorably.
  
  --
  "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
22. Re:Community Myth by colinrichardday · 2011-07-16 15:59 · Score: 1
  
  Darn, And I thought the Founding Fathers launched a preemptive strike against Nazism (grammar and otherwise).
  Do you feel the same the same way about people who don't capitalize "I"?
23. Re:Community Myth by retchdog · 2011-07-16 16:13 · Score: 2
  
  if you're referring to my posts (and even if you're not), i intentionally adopted a mostly-uncapitalized style to reflect my perception that online discussion is a (novel) compromise between formal writing and spoken language. i still usually capitalize proper names only out of respect for others.
  apart from this, you may also note that the capitalization of i is anomalous among nominative pronouns. afaik, there is no universally-accepted explanation for this, but i find the explanations put forth* to be either obsolete or personally unacceptable.
  * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_(pronoun)
  
  --
  "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
24. Re:Community Myth by Sun · 2011-07-16 17:44 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  And then I, as lead (and often only) developer for several FOSS projects, get an email with a question, suggestion or bug report to my personal email. When I reply with "please use the mailing list", people like you, who, to them, "community" means that the lead developer needs to answer their questions directly, complain, get upset, and sometimes get downright rude.
  As a lead developer, I want a community to form. This means that I want to give all people in the community a chance to answer your question, not only myself personally.
  Shachar
25. Re:Community Myth by X0563511 · 2011-07-16 18:23 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Saying one thing and meaning it's exact opposite is not an evolution of an "idiom" - it's just idiocy.
  Unless you're telling me that in 300 years "4" might actually mean "27" or something along those lines?
  
  --
  For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
26. Re:Community Myth by X0563511 · 2011-07-16 18:25 · Score: 1
  
  Re-read what he said. They "could care less" - meaning they care to an extent already.
  Now, that's probably not what the fool meant, but the fool wrote the opposite instead. Pity him.
  
  --
  For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
27. Re:Community Myth by vallan · 2011-07-16 19:25 · Score: 0
  
  LOLOLOL I TROLLED YOU GOOD
28. Re:Community Myth by Mister+Pedant · 2011-07-16 21:00 · Score: 0
  
  That's nothing compared to folks, in my humble opinion Americans due to their accent/pronunciation, substituting 'then' for 'than'. Due to the increase in its use on the net the improper use has spread to non-native English speakers too, and people with English as a second language outnumber native speakers.
  One day, once its use outnumbers the correct usage then 'it's game over man' for than (or should part that last sentence read 'than it's game over man' for then).
  We will end up with 'greater then' instead of 'greater than', 'it's better then yours' for 'it's better than yours'. Why make it more complicated.
29. Re:Community Myth by Zontar+The+Mindless · 2011-07-16 21:36 · Score: 2
  
  Than and then are completely different words.
  Contrary to what many ill- and semi-literates seem to think, these are not homonyms. We spell them differently for a reason.
  
  --
  Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
30. Re:Community Myth by Mister+Pedant · 2011-07-16 22:22 · Score: 0
  
  I have seen a great number of posts where 'then' has been substituted for 'than'. What really surprises me is the writer is quite clearly of above average intelligence and has managed to side step common grammatical ‘banana skins’. It’s the use by these same people, due to their otherwise very good spelling and grammar, that perpetuates the adoption of this incorrect use in others (esp those who are learning English) as they may have been influenced by what seems to them perfectly good English.
31. Re:Community Myth by mwvdlee · 2011-07-16 23:07 · Score: 1
  
  Have those companies REPLACED the code contributions of individuals or have companies simply provided MORE code than before?
  
  --
  Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
32. Re:Community Myth by mwvdlee · 2011-07-16 23:21 · Score: 1
  
  I agree that these emails can get overwhelming, depending on popularity of the project, but a lot of the bigger projects (or the more arrogant dev-teams) can be very hard to contact.
  I once found some very obvious bugs in an open source project (ISO8601 time using locale-specific time separators). The fix was just two minor changes in two lines of code. I tried contacting the developers several times over the course of two years and yet the bug remained in there all the time. It was only "fixed" when they did a complete rewrite.
  With other projects I could just log into an IRC channel or use a bugtracker, but some Open Source projects make it very difficult to contribute anything as an outsider. If somebody wants to alert the developers to a typo in some translation, you don't want them to have to spend more than a few minutes to do so. If somebody noticed a bug and fixed it too, that person should be able to get that code to the developers without hurdles. If it becomes easier to just fork code than contribute patches, you're on a downward spiral.
  
  --
  Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
33. Re:Community Myth by AliasMarlowe · 2011-07-17 00:00 · Score: 1
  
  if you're referring to my posts (and even if you're not), i intentionally adopted a mostly-uncapitalized style to reflect my perception that online discussion is a (novel) compromise between formal writing and spoken language. i still usually capitalize proper names only out of respect for others.
  I PREFER TO CAPITALIZE EVERYTHING, JUST TO BE SURE...
  
  --
  Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
34. Re:Community Myth by Sun · 2011-07-17 00:09 · Score: 1
  
  I ask that anyone contacting me about projects do so via the project's mailing. That list does require you to be subscribed in order to post. The reason for the former is that direct communications with me are, often, antithetic to "community". My projects are so popular that a community can be taken for granted. I also want the list's archives to log such activities.
  I agree this makes participating slightly more troublesome, but I think it's fair to ask not to treat me as a private free support venue.
  Shachar
35. Re:Community Myth by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 00:19 · Score: 0
  
  Cunt! You'll die by drowning.
36. Re:Community Myth by ewanm89 · 2011-07-17 00:21 · Score: 1
  
  maybe you should learn to read, M$ == 361, RH=1000 while independent developers are on 1085 this year.
37. Re:Community Myth by ewanm89 · 2011-07-17 00:28 · Score: 1
  
  That's when a fork usually comes about. Cause the original developer has gone incommunicado.
38. Re:Community Myth by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 00:52 · Score: 0
  
  but seriously, the "could care less" form is the more common version now, for good or ill. should it matter if each user doesn't think it through?
  No, it doesn't matter. Up is down and down is up.
39. Re:Community Myth by 16K+Ram+Pack · 2011-07-17 00:56 · Score: 1
  
  I wish I was joking about this, but the support for open source software that is freely provided is typically better than that provided by vendors of enterprise software. Not just "better because it's free", but actually better.
  With major open source projects (like Subversion, Tortoise, Wordpress, CakePHP), I've never had a bug that wasn't resolved within a few hours. You hit a forum or Stack Overflow or whatever, post a question, and you have responses within hours. Often it's that I've missed something, or there's some workaround that someone else has discovered, but either way, the problem gets solved.
40. Re:Community Myth by Lawrence_Bird · 2011-07-17 01:26 · Score: 1
  
  To answer your question, no it probably does not matter as far as the end product goes. However, the original poster on this thread, though marked as troll, did have some basis for his tirade in that many people (still) see linux as an OS primarily developed by individuals/hackers/computer geeks and that is/has been generally been viewed as "cool" or a good thing. But as is apparent, much of the code these days is directly or indirectly corporate sponsored. Is this bad? Well some people may think so and they may even be right to think this could have a long term negative effect on the OS. The truth probably is somewhere in between as it is certainly helpful to have more people fixing bugs, improving performance and (hopefully) increasing hardware compatability. But never discount that those same corps. may have their own agenda which is divergent from the perceived "linux agenda".
41. Re:Community Myth by Lawrence_Bird · 2011-07-17 01:36 · Score: 1
  
  Er.. no. Just because he is asking you to communicate through an approved "channel" does not mean he will not see it or perhaps respond to it. It is unrealistic to expect the lead on any project beyond the very small to respond to your direct mailings.
  
  Also you and others seem not to understand that mailing lists/forums/etc developed for this purpose provide a repository available to all the developers (and users) and serves as a primary source audit trail. There is no accidental deletion, missorting or otherwise misplacing/deletion of your message. Depending on the sophistication of the project it can also allow direct assignment of the problem/bug/suggestion to the appropriate individual/team, for instance the use of bugzilla on the various mozilla projects.
42. Re:Community Myth by Tanktalus · 2011-07-17 01:46 · Score: 1
  
  No, don't be silly. "4" will eventually mean "5". Here, let me show you. We all know that 2+2=4. But, with inflation, everything is going up over time, so if we merely assume large values of 2, we will get 2+2=5. QED.
43. Re: Community Myth by Roblimo · 2011-07-17 02:10 · Score: 1
  
  It's *always* better to have an archived email list or online support forum instead of one-to-one emails. It's a matter of leveraging your time. The same questions ("Will it work better if I plug it in?") are going to be asked over and over. Why reply to them over and over?
  Also: IRC is the best venue for hand-holding support, not necessarily provided by a project's lead developer or necessarily by a developer at all. Sometimes a user is better able to steer a fellow user in the right direction, and IRC is great for this.
  freenode and oftc are both great places to host your support channels.
  And for users who expect free software developers to drop everything they're doing and provide instant, free, one-on-one tech support... suck my hairy white [Republican]. That is TOTALLY out of line. Don't even ask.
44. Re:Community Myth by fafaforza · 2011-07-17 03:21 · Score: 1
  
  Unless "I could care less" is meant in a sarcastic tone. Sorry if everything in life isn't in line with some rigid formula or rule.
45. Re:Community Myth by devphaeton · 2011-07-17 03:37 · Score: 1
  
  Hopefully, we're all over this now. Could we just put this all behind us and continue to bash the rest of the huge decline in literacy amongst modern youth?
  
  --
  
  do() || do_not(); // try();
46. Re:Community Myth by devphaeton · 2011-07-17 03:46 · Score: 2
  
  I have seen a great number of posts where 'then' has been substituted for 'than'. What really surprises me is the writer is quite clearly of above average intelligence...
  There are also a lot of idiots doing it too.
  Hopefully unrelated, recall that just a couple of days ago someone substituted "women" for "woman" in the title of a Slashdot article submission. As I read down the comments to see how quickly someone would call it, I saw plenty of other phonetic substitutions, spelling and grammar problems in the posts that follow. Yet, nobody seemed to take note (or I suppose mention) the error in the title.
  I used to think "at least the members of Slashdot will continue to be functionally literate, even if the rest of the web goes to shit." Unfortunately, in the last couple of years I've discovered I was wrong.
  
  --
  
  do() || do_not(); // try();
47. Re:Community Myth by Doc+Ruby · 2011-07-17 07:20 · Score: 2
  
  I wish people would get over this myth that just because a lot of people say something and think they know what it means that it makes sense.
  It doesn't. It's a sign that the speaker is stupid. Insisting that it's OK is a sign that the speaker is meta-stupid.
  
  --
  --
  make install -not war
48. Re:Community Myth by Doc+Ruby · 2011-07-17 07:21 · Score: 1
  
  No, with inflation 2+2=4 becomes 2.5+2.5=5 .
  
  --
  --
  make install -not war
49. Re:Community Myth by hairyfeet · 2011-07-17 08:27 · Score: 0
  
  Ugh.Seriously I just have to say this to ALL grammar nazis...WTF people? Could you not understand what the man said? Is the post he placed so God damned important the Ruskies will launch if the text isn't correct? no? Then WTF!
  Get ready to shit thyselves and get thy panties in a twist because "could care less" is probably used by a good 60% of the population, most of whom couldn't give a flying fuck about grammar crap! I mean Jesus Christ we're in the first generations of the kids that grew up texting so just be damned glad it isn't a whole stream of "BRB WTFOMGBBQ!" style bullshit, okay?
  There ain't no damned reason to get your panties in a wad over a meaningless post on a fricking forum, and yes ain't is a word and if you don't like we southerners say go piss up a rope, especially when the whole damned thing has fuck all to do with TFA! If this were an article about spelling bees or English grammar between countries? Then I could see it. But TFA is at over 20+ posts now of nothing but panty twisted grammar nazis! Give it a fricking rest people!
  Now as for TFA this is yet another example of why I think the GPL needs to be changed to have a "free for non commercial use" clause in it, although I have a feeling it may be too late. The original idea may have been an "OS of the people" but now just a handful of megacorps pretty much control the whole smash. I would also argue this is why desktop Linux has to deal with lack of a hardware driver ABI, because Red Hat and MSFT and the other corps don't really need one for servers as the hardware almost never changes and they have admins that can recompile, so if it doesn't affect them why should they care?
  But sadly I think the time to do any meaningful changes to the GPL has already passed. Why is that? One word: TiVo. TiVo showed the megacorps that with GPL V2 they can get all the hard work of the community for nothing and can then turn it proprietary ANY time they desire, simply by adding code signing or eFuses. This is why corps like Google won't allow any GPL V3 code anywhere near anything they are working on as it would take away their option to lock up the code later.
  As it is now MSFT sure as hell isn't paying a developer to make Linux a better desktop, RH doesn't care as servers are where their bread is buttered, and Canonical doesn't give squat back to the community. So who does that leave? A bunch of broke ass coders trying to work on FOSS on the weekends while keeping a roof over their heads with a 9 to 5 and it just ain't right. If all these coders whose work is being used by these megacorps actually got a few bucks kicked their way imagine how quickly the code would improve with so many guys working full time on it?
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
50. Re:Community Myth by NoobixCube · 2011-07-17 10:51 · Score: 2
  
  Right, let's just throw away the basic meanings of some of the simplest words in our language. Everything should be taken to mean the opposite of what is actually said, because that makes perfect sense. Thanks for your time in so clearly and concisely explaining how apparently wrong I am in being correct. Hey, I guess you're right, things can mean the opposite of their stated denotations.
  I've only heard Americans say "could care less", before, and it may come as a shock to many of them, but they aren't the only nation that speaks "English". Funny word, that, "English". Wonder who speaks that language...
  
  --
  Admit it. You post strawman arguments as AC so you get modded Insightful for refuting them, rather than Troll
51. Re:Community Myth by Radworker · 2011-07-17 14:29 · Score: 1
  
  Unless that is an acronym for can't understand normal thinking, I suggest you not use it. It only makes you appear stupid.
52. Re:Community Myth by hairyfeet · 2011-07-17 16:10 · Score: 1
  
  Did I say throw away the meaning? Show me where I said that. What I said was there is ABSOLUTELY NO POINT in having over 20 damned posts just rehashing that same damned grammar correction!
  So you explain to me how EXACTLY having over 20 damned posts needlessly nitpicking over three fucking words helps anyone, or the flow of discussion, or anything at all? There are so damned many anal retentive asshole grammar nazis here now that the second one picks up on any mistake you might as well just change the rest of the thread to "LOL I farted!" because for all intents and purposes ( I was tempted to write all intensive purposes just to watch them trip over themselves correcting it, but they are still busy with wafting around the "Could /couldn't" fart last I checked) the discussion is OVER. That's it, nothing but 50 posts of "LOL I farted!".
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
53. Re:Community Myth by Hal_Porter · 2011-07-17 18:08 · Score: 1
  
  I like "grammar nazi'ism" almost as much as I like "pendants". "Could care less" used to irritate me but now I just see it as the same sort of thing.
  
  --
  echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
54. Re:Community Myth by black+soap · 2011-07-18 00:34 · Score: 1
  
  I wish people would get over this myth of Linux being a community effort of users putting their minds together. (Score:1, Interesting)
  
  I wish people would get over this myth that "could care less" means that you couldn't care less.(Score:4, Informative)
  
  I wish people would get over the myth that mod points should be spent more on grammar nazi'ism than the topic at hand.(Score:1, Offtopic)
  Slashdot, you have made my day.
55. Re:Community Myth by causality · 2011-07-18 10:51 · Score: 1
  
  And then I, as lead (and often only) developer for several FOSS projects, get an email with a question, suggestion or bug report to my personal email. When I reply with "please use the mailing list", people like you, who, to them, "community" means that the lead developer needs to answer their questions directly, complain, get upset, and sometimes get downright rude.
  As a lead developer, I want a community to form. This means that I want to give all people in the community a chance to answer your question, not only myself personally.
  Shachar
  If I were careless and thoughtless about it, it would create the situation you bemoan. Hint: I don't e-mail project leads for technical support. I don't do that because I'm not an asshole.
  
  I use support forums for support. Do you see how my post never said "e-mail" anywhere and instead used the much more generic word "communicate"? Well, I'm not careless with my diction and that was worded deliberately. Most of my direct communication with developers and project leads was initiated by their response to a forum or mailing list post of mine.
  
  You could have asked "hey with no evidence from you, I took it upon myself to assume that when you said 'communicate' you meant you e-mailed them personally, is that correct?". Instead you noticed that, among other interpretations, it could be interpreted in terms of your pet peeve. So, full of righteous indignation, you ran with it. Much good discussion is ruined this way.
  
  I'd rather people take a breath once in a while and ask themselves if their assumptions have any grounds whatsoever before they tell someone what "people like you" do and how annoying it is. I like that better than following every post with a long list of disclaimers that reactive people who wish to jump to conclusions will ignore anyway.
  
  The point was, you can post in a Windows-related forum and you aren't going to see Ballmer chiming in. He may occasionally do that for million-dollar customers, but he hasn't the time for little people like me.
  
  The few times I have dealt with developers, it was welcome by them and by me. It is unfortunate that you have had negative experiences but you paint with a rather broad brush.
  
  --
  It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
56. Re:Community Myth by causality · 2011-07-18 11:09 · Score: 1
  
  Not eager to reply to myself but I see the point of confusion was this line:
  
  Sometimes I send an e-mail just to say "thank you" for the simple reason that they owe me absolutely nothing, yet I benefit from the work they have chosen to make freely available.
  By that I meant when I want to make a donation, which is also a way to say thank you, but again not a support request. I wasn't going to mention the donation part but I see now that's the way to clarify this.
  
  The bottom line is, I do something like that because it is my delight to give something back despite my modest means, not so I can impress anyone with "how generous I am" as though I do so for any reason except that I want to, so for that reason I can see how that one line was ambiguous. Still I think you're a bit frustrated and this has made you somewhat trigger-happy. In a way I can understand that. Dealing with the general public sucks and will remind you in a very in-your-face manner that the world is full of thoughtless, inconsiderate people.
  
  I assure you, my spirit of gratitude and appreciation towards Open Source participants is not compatible with needlessly bothering them. That isn't how I show appreciation.
  
  --
  It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
The number itself is entertaining but ... by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-07-16 12:27 · Score: 5, Informative

... it really is useless trivia. What's more important is what the contributions are, specifically. Per TFA:

This work by Microsoft was to clean up the “Microsoft Hyper-V (HV) driver” so that the Microsoft driver would be included in the mainline Linux kernel. Microsoft originally submitted this set of code changes back in July 2009, but there were a lot of problems with it, and the Linux kernel developers insisted that it be fixed. The Linux community had a long list of issues with Microsoft’s code, but the good news is that Microsoft worked to improve the quality of its code so that it could be accepted into the Linux kernel. Other developers helped Microsoft get their code up to par, too. ( Steve Friedl has some comments about its early technical issues.
and why:

Getting code into the mainline Linux kernel release, instead of just existing as a separate patch, is vitally important for an organization if they want people to use their software (if it needs to be part of the Linux kernel, as this did). A counter-example is that the Xen developers let KVM zoom ahead of them, because the Xen developers failed to set a high priority on getting full support for Xen into the mainline Linux kernel. As Thorsten Leemhuis at The H says, “There are many indications that the Xen developers should have put more effort into merging Xen support into the official kernel earlier. After all, while Xen was giving developers and distribution users a hard time with the old kernel, a new virtualisation star was rising on the open source horizon: KVM (Kernel-based Virtual Machine) In the beginning, KVM could not touch the functional scope and speed of Xen. But soon, open source developers, Linux distributors, and companies such as AMD, Intel and IBM became interested in KVM and contributed a number of improvements, so that KVM quickly caught up and even moved past Xen in some respects.” Xen may do well in the future, but this is still a cautionary tale.
1. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Sc4Freak · 2011-07-16 12:57 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  So? A contribution is a contribution, even if it is for selfish reasons.
2. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-07-16 13:19 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  I did not imply otherwise. My point is that the contribution and its nature are of more importance than the associated random statistical fluke.
3. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by cgenman · 2011-07-16 13:25 · Score: 1
  
  Somewhat of a tangent, but why is compatibility on this type of thing built into the kernel level?
  
  --
  The ______ Agenda
4. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-07-16 13:41 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  You want to expose host's hardware to the guest with as few layers in between as possible. Traditional emulation is rather slow, so instead you set up a fast channel that exposes exactly what is needed in a most efficient way, and write drivers for the guest which use that to work with hardware.
  I believe this is also true for scheduling - if host and guest cooperate (which necessarily requires special code running in guest's kernel), they can do much better at it.
5. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 13:55 · Score: 1
  
  I'd assumed that you were warding away the FUD that was to come. The headline almost implies that MS ramped up Linux contributions in general, as if trying to sabotage Linux by instating patent bombs throughout the kernel codebase. Or as someone tagged the article, "it's a trap."
6. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by powerlord · 2011-07-16 14:19 · Score: 1
  
  So? A contribution is a contribution, even if it is for selfish reasons.
  Yes, but ...
  1) All the contributions were within one module (all well and good, and that fine, but people should realize this was not some altruistic move by MS to "help" Linux).
  2) Are multiple changes to add/fix comments included in the list of changes? I don't know, but that might artificially increase a contribution count, specifically if MS was working to get this particular module into "production".
  Again, I agree it doesn't make a difference in terms of, "hey, they contributed", but it does help put they contributions into context.
  
  --
  This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
7. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by wrook · 2011-07-16 14:21 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Even more importantly, contributing for selfish reasons creates a win-win situation. Contributing in a way that is detrimental to you, is detrimental for the community. It is important for people and organisations to realise that we want them to succeed in their enterprises.
  I think a lot of people misunderstand the driving forces behind free and open source software. They see it as some kind of charity where the group "donating" code is losing out. Instead, groups should understand how they are going to benefit from contributing to a free software project before they do so. Benefit can come in the form of money, it can come in the form of eyeballs (attracting attention to an under serviced area), or it can simply come from the pleasure of contributing. These are all benefits.
  Free and open source software allows more than one group to benefit from contributing to a project. You can't control how much benefit another group can get from a project, but the more you do to tie your success to the success of the project, the more you benefit you get from other people's contributions. Ideally, we want companies like MS to make money from the success of free software. The more they do so, the more they will understand the opportunities they are missing. The more they rely on our success, the more everyone benefits.
8. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by gumbi+west · 2011-07-16 14:23 · Score: 2
  
  To be a slashdot editor you must be able to spin like mad.
9. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by jcoy42 · 2011-07-16 14:52 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Since it was a Microsoft employee, I'm going to assume that it was really just one contribution and 360 patches to make it work.
  Expect more patches soon.
  
  --
  Never trust an atom. They make up everything.
10. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 15:11 · Score: 0
  
  This work by Microsoft was to clean up the “Microsoft Hyper-V (HV) driver” so that the Microsoft driver would be included in the mainline Linux kernel. Microsoft originally submitted this set of code changes back in July 2009, but there were a lot of problems with it, and the Linux kernel developers insisted that it be fixed. The Linux community had a long list of issues with Microsoft’s code, but the good news is that Microsoft worked to improve the quality of its code so that it could be accepted into the Linux kernel. Other developers helped Microsoft get their code up to par, too. ( Steve Friedl has some comments about its early technical issues.
  Wow. Poor quality code released by Microsoft and fixed only when that wouldn't be accepted. Color me surprised.
11. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by colinrichardday · 2011-07-16 15:45 · Score: 1
  
  Thank you.
  I don't have mod points, sorry.
12. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 16:34 · Score: 0
  
  Hear, hear!
  Too many people misunderstand the definition of 'giving'. If it is by choice, then it is in ones own interest to do so. Assuming no errors in reasoning or lack of knowledge that make for a sort of buyers or sellers remorse, this is a win-win. This is why I love the nature of open source productivity. What's more, it shows the advantages of a truly freed and peaceful market where value created is sovereign. The example of Xen vs KVM as quoted above demonstrates what I mean.
13. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by martin-boundary · 2011-07-16 16:42 · Score: 0
  
  Ideally, we want companies like MS to make money from the success of free software. The more they do so, the more they will understand the opportunities they are missing. The more they rely on our success, the more everyone benefits.
  
  I disagree. MS isn't some company building physical widgets who could benefit from a better set of IT tools, MS is a company whose primary purpose is to wall off a part of the IT universe and make it accessible only against payment. That's a pretty strong antimatter to the FSF's matter or vice versa. Suppose the free software ecosystem helps MS to make money, then what? That money is just going to go into expanding their walled garden. It's basically shooting ourselves in the foot.
14. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by staalmannen · 2011-07-16 16:43 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  The whole point (which Linus often stresses) is that open source is all about "scratching your own itch". This means that all contributions are self-serving. I am actually quite surprised that Apple has not tried to push patches to Linux for kernel GCD support yet. That would also have been a self-serving improvement since they want to push the standards of C in that direction.
15. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by protektor · 2011-07-16 16:55 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Except that completely ignores the issue of Microsoft claiming that Linux violates their patents. I wonder if Microsoft employees and legal counsel for Microsoft has signed off on any patents that might be included in the module work they are doing for their own virtualization to be included in the Linux kernel. You ask me and I see absolutely no point in including Microsoft's module. They have had 2 years and done absolutely nothing with it. All the changes that were done were lots of little ones and the module still isn't ready to leave the staging area. So while the numbers sound interesting and it makes it seem like Microsoft is helping, they are actually doing squat all to get their code into a release and usable format for the Linux kernel.
  I still want to know why the Linux kernel should contain anything from a company that constantly assaults the community. A company who calls us thieves and intellectual pirates. Microsoft is going after Android OEMs saying that Linux violates their patents so they have to pay up on licensing fees. Yet Microsoft won't publicly announce what any of those patents are. In fact when Barnes and Noble called BS on Microsoft and refused to sign the NDA. It turned out Microsoft didn't sue over Linux they sued over web browsing and the interface, which is a long long way from Linux itself or even any Linux distribution.
  The Linux community should absolutely not accept anything from a company or anyone else who is active trying to put a knife in our back and running around to OEMs who work with the community and black mailing them and telling them sign this NDA so you can see the issues, but you can never tell anyone what they are. That whole thing sounds like BS and Microsoft knows if they are ever announced that the patents will be broken and then Microsoft will be on the hook for all those license payments that they may actually have to pay back.
  I want to know why the federal government and the DOJ are not looking in to Microsoft's behavior in this matter given this is exactly the same type of monopoly behavior that Microsoft does and did that got them convicted of being an illegal monopoly in the EU and the US. Microsoft has to play by completely different rules than everyone given the fact they are a company convicted of breaking the law. When you break the law everything is different for you compared to everyone else. So it may be true some other company could do this type of thing without an issue, but we are talking about Microsoft who is a convicted illegal monopoly. So they must play by different rules, and they seem to be breaking those rules and going back to their old illegal ways.
16. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by protektor · 2011-07-16 17:05 · Score: 2
  
  Listing this as a Microsoft announcement might be interesting except that most of the work done by the guy was probably when he was working for Novell. He only came to work for Microsoft in Feb. 2011. So not exactly a huge amount of time. Not to mention the modification are supposedly very small ones and are only done in the Microsoft module for their VM, that is still in the staging area from 2+ years ago.
  Why we even want Microsoft's VM module I will never understand given Microsoft wants to see Linux rot in hell and never be allowed to surface again. Microsoft as a company calls us a virus that infects everything ruining everything it touches, thieves and intellectual pirates. You should never accept anything from someone actively trying to stab you in the back. When the person is getting behind you it isn't for encouragement but rather so they get a better angle to stab you in the back.
  So nothing to see here move along.
17. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by drolli · 2011-07-16 17:06 · Score: 2
  
  If hey, as a company, published this under the GPL, then you may change the code and construct derived code based on it and use it as you like. As long as you dont start with a blank page, there should be no problem. Moreover, if this contains patented algorithm, then i am sure the patent numbers should be mentioned in the documentation. I am pretty sure that not mentioning patents in distributed source code may weaken your position in front of a court.
18. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 17:43 · Score: 0
  
  Hyper-V likes having its guest operating systems aware of the fact they're running under Hyper-V. A good example is the virtual ethernet - Hyper-V has two kinds, 'legacy' and 'enlightened'. The former is an emulation of an Intel network card, emulating the real hardware. (It has registers, it has PCI address space, etc etc, all emulated as normal.)
  The enlightened network cards, though, are not emulations of any physical network card. They're designed with a much simpler API, designed explicitly for use inside Hyper-V. When sending information between the guest and the parent, the legacy network card has to emulate the PCI bus etc. I believe the Hyper-V network adapter merely sends a high-speed VMBus (the hypervisor's communication channel) message remapping the page between virtual machines; instantly transferring the data. Since there is less layers, they're faster - but the catch is that no operating system can use one of these unless they're aware of the VMBus, the Hyper-V network adapter, and of course, Hyper-V generally.
  Being Hyper-V aware allows a guest os to have its memory consumption monitored - and for Hyper-V to hot-add additional memory to the VM when it is getting low. It allows the real-time-clock inside the VM to be kept in synch with the parent.
  Etc etc.
19. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 17:50 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah, but this means the volume of changes is no indication of Microsoft being particularly eager to contribute, but of the one thing they were trying to contribute needing a lot of fixing.
20. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by perryizgr8 · 2011-07-16 18:22 · Score: 1
  
  stopped reading after "Yes, but ...".
  
  --
  Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
21. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by wisty · 2011-07-16 18:24 · Score: 2
  
  IBM doesn't sell many physical widgets anymore*, but they still make OSS.
  1) Realize your monopoly on low-end hardware has been disrupted.
  2) Contribute to open source, to secure your stronghold on the enterprise.
  3) OPEN A MASSIVE CONSULTING DIVISION.
  4) Profit.
  I always wanted to know what went in the "...".
  * I'm sure people who've seen their profit margins on mainframes will tell me that's a load of BS, which it is.
22. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by jd2112 · 2011-07-16 18:29 · Score: 2
  
  Ideally, we want companies like MS to make money from the success of free software. The more they do so, the more they will understand the opportunities they are missing. The more they rely on our success, the more everyone benefits.
  I disagree. MS isn't some company building physical widgets who could benefit from a better set of IT tools, MS is a company whose primary purpose is to wall off a part of the IT universe and make it accessible only against payment. That's a pretty strong antimatter to the FSF's matter or vice versa. Suppose the free software ecosystem helps MS to make money, then what? That money is just going to go into expanding their walled garden. It's basically shooting ourselves in the foot.
  My guess is that a significant number of enterprise customers have requested that Hyper-V play nice with Linux under threat of migration to VMware (or VMware customers who were considering migrating to Hyper-V but would not with the current level of Linux support)
  
  --
  Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
23. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by X0563511 · 2011-07-16 18:31 · Score: 1
  
  I believe this is also true for scheduling - if host and guest cooperate (which necessarily requires special code running in guest's kernel), they can do much better at it.
  I don't know about CPU scheduling, but I don't think that applies really - The host lets the guest do the work, it doesn't need to know what exactly the guest is doing.
  Now, I/O scheduling - in such a case it's actually far more productive to have the guest just not do it - as it has no idea what other work on the host is going on, nor does it know anything about the actual device that is being I/O'ed to. The guest does it's own work without arranging things carefully (like any other program would) and the host then treats it like any other program. Having both do it actually mucks it up for the one that matters (the host).
  (tip: the kernel parameter you want to run in linux guests is 'elevator=noop')
  
  --
  For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
24. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 18:49 · Score: 0
  
  I don't think Microsoft would have contributed anything if the kernel was under GPLv3, which is much more specific about patents and what you can do with them.
25. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Dr_Barnowl · 2011-07-16 19:16 · Score: 1
  
  So an interesting question would be - did Microsoft supply "enlightened" network drivers for the Linux kernel, or are they only available on Windows?
26. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 19:23 · Score: 0
  
  So... they have fixed their own bugs and we are giving them credit for it... cool.
  I'll kill myself if slashdot or LWN or whoever will give me credit for removing the most useless poster in the history of the Internet.
27. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by olterman · 2011-07-16 20:13 · Score: 1
  
  Dude, I think you give too much importance to random Slashdot posts.
  The "journalistic piece of art" doesn't exist anymore (alas, not even in Slashdot).
28. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by phonewebcam · 2011-07-16 20:13 · Score: 0
  
  Yes, and when Elop became Nokia's CEO it was entirely for the benefit of Nokia, their staff and shareholders. The fact it just happened to benefit m$ so much once the dust had settled is just a happy co-incidence for them.
29. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 21:11 · Score: 0
  
  Microsoft just made numbers go high
  It use to be 42 patents what Linux infringed but now it is 385...
30. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by gl4ss · 2011-07-16 21:25 · Score: 1
  
  *So? A contribution is a contribution, even if it is for selfish reasons.*
  
  yeah, but it's a single one long contribution relating to supporting ms sw. the article headline implies a bit something, since it's not anything your usual linux user would miss. it's useful those having to deal with virtualised desktop hell though.
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
31. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 21:49 · Score: 0
  
  Is that you, Zombie Tyler Durden?
32. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 22:32 · Score: 0
  
  It is important for people and organisations to realise that we want them to succeed in their enterprises.
  Who's 'we'? I'm pretty much indifferent as to whether they succeed. I hope someone succeeds because success generally means providing goods and services that people want and I'm one of those people :) but I don't really see us getting anywhere without a whole load of people failing along the way (the only way for none of the to fail is for none of them to try anything much at all) and I don't really care whether a randomly selected organisation is one of the successes or one of the failure.
33. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by iserlohn · 2011-07-16 23:01 · Score: 1
  
  The really funny thing is, you're not that far off.
  
  --
  :. Ultimate Control Dedicated/VM Servers
34. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by iserlohn · 2011-07-16 23:03 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, but scratching you own itch sometimes benefits others that have the same itch. Here, this Hyper-V driver is obviously self-serving (KVM, XEN and VMWare has their own infrastructure and will not benefit from this).
  
  --
  :. Ultimate Control Dedicated/VM Servers
35. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by TheRaven64 · 2011-07-16 23:21 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Why would Apple want to do that? Libdispatch runs on *BSD, Linux and Solaris, but on Linux and Solaris uses libkqueue to provide an emulation of the kqueue APIs and it only uses the kernel scheduling on Darwin and FreeBSD. If you write code using libdispatch, it works everywhere except Windows, but people using Linux get an inferior experience to people using FreeBSD or Darwin. That sounds pretty much idea from Apple's perspective.
  Oh, and someone did implement kqueue on Linux a couple of years ago. It was rejected because the mess of timerfd, signalfd, and epoll() was considered better by the NIH mentality of the Linux kernel team. As someone who has used both, I'm always glad when I don't have to make my code work on Linux.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
36. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by TheRaven64 · 2011-07-16 23:29 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Speaking as the author of the only book about the internal working of Xen:
  It's very important for scheduling. The guest OS typically lets processes run for 10ms windows (or until they hit some blocking code). In a virtualised environment, 10ms does not necessarily translate to 10ms of CPU time. A guest OS should run its processes for 10ms of time that the guest is scheduled, not for 10ms of elapsed time. If the guest is not aware of when it is scheduled and when it is idle, then it can not schedule its processes effectively. In some cases, you have latency-sensitive processes in the guest. The hypervisor and the guest can then cooperate so that the guest is not preempted while these processes are scheduled. Cooperation between host and guest schedulers is a very active research topic at the moment, because it can have a huge impact on overall throughput.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
37. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by TheLink · 2011-07-16 23:32 · Score: 1
  
  Despite Hyper-V performing better[1] than VMware Server (VMware server is free) in some benchmarks , I'd still prefer VMware till Hyper-V improves its virtualization so that it works with Linux better WITHOUT having to install their probably still crappy (but not crap enough to reject) virtualization drivers.
  Microsoft should also fix/improve the "remote management" bit for Hyper-V too.
  Currently you practically have to use an unsupported tool ( http://archive.msdn.microsoft.com/HVRemote ) to try to get remote management working, and it still doesn't always work.
  The alternative to that tool is consulting a 5 part series on some blog: http://blogs.technet.com/b/jhoward/archive/2008/03/28/part-1-hyper-v-remote-management-you-do-not-have-the-requested-permission-to-complete-this-task-contact-the-administrator-of-the-authorization-policy-for-the-computer-computername.aspx
  With VMware remote management is practically already installed as part of installing VMware. No real big issue.
  Sure you probably don't get the "Windows Domain" credentials stuff with VMware, but I don't have great confidence of successfully doing anything sophisticated in that area and still have hyper-v remote management work. Supposedly you "add this user to a group and give that group the permissions" and well it still didn't work, I still had to add specific user permissions. Maybe it takes time before it starts working (AD policy propagates), but if that's the case, I don't have time for that, nor time to waste on it _when_ it stops working for whatever reason.
  So for these and other reasons if there are no other requirements (e.g. political reasons) , it'll be vmware and I'd just let the hardware take care of the 10% performance difference (Windows Server Enterprise licenses cost money too, so go Linux and spend more on hardware). If you're using virtual machines and that 10% is make or break you're doing it wrong anyway.
  --
  
  Too many replies beneath your current threshold
38. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by INT_QRK · 2011-07-16 23:36 · Score: 1
  
  Suppose the contribution is code poisoned with MS IP that can then form the basis for patent suits? Haven't read all the comments. Somebody else must have had these suspicions.
39. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by IainCartwright · 2011-07-16 23:39 · Score: 1
  
  Enlightened drivers are in versions SUSE 11 and Redhat.
  Presumably some of these changes from MS are to facilitate enlightened drivers for any distro.
  Makes a huge difference running private virtual networks
40. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Entrope · 2011-07-16 23:56 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  This. Some of the people on LKML pointed out that the guy's floods of ~180 patches at a time grossly violated the patch submission standards laid out in Documentation/SubmittingPatches ("Do not more than 15 patches at once to the vger mailing lists!!!"). I know it annoyed me, and it seemed like a huge amount of code churn for a driver in staging. I didn't realize until I saw this story what the driver was or who the author was.
41. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by ewanm89 · 2011-07-17 00:33 · Score: 1
  
  I wonder how many of the patches were rejected. Most of them I would guess. And if that many, well, use git as it's supposed to be, with a single big diff...
42. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 00:59 · Score: 0
  
  "Listen all y'all, it's sabotage"
43. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 01:57 · Score: 0
  
  they get the number from the same guys that gives the recording companies their numbers
44. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Bengie · 2011-07-17 02:25 · Score: 1
  
  I never thought about the difference between elapsed time and CPU time, but it makes perfect sense. If the guest schedules a thread at the beginning of a 10ms window, but then the host preempts it for the next 10ms, then the host reschedules it, the guest looks at the elapsed time and says "Hey, it got 11ms", but the thread only sees 1ms.
  I wonder how this all interacts with a tickless kernel. Since the kernel schedules a hardware interrupt, does the host save that state and re-schedule that interrupt to compensate for being preempted?
  I know Win7 counts clock-cycles to determine how much "time" a thread has gotten.
45. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by petermgreen · 2011-07-17 02:27 · Score: 1
  
  Contributions to a project like linux can be divided into two main sets.
  1: Contributions that improve the quality of the project as a whole
  2: Contributions that add a niche feature that the contributor wants.
  The second type of contribution needs to be treated with great care if a project is to remain maintainable. Afaict the large number of changesets were caused not because MS was trying to contribute a lot but because MS was made to put a lot of effort into cleaning up their code before it was considered acceptable for merging.
  
  --
  note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
46. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 03:00 · Score: 1
  
  I still want to know why the Linux kernel should contain anything from a company that constantly assaults the community.
  Because:
  1) it weakens their position when it comes to attacking Linux in a broad scope
  2) it makes life much easier for those of us that work in shops where incompetent staff or CTO force us to run Linux under that HyperV piece of crap instead of something proper like vmware or native KVM/Xen.
47. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Lorien_the_first_one · 2011-07-17 03:43 · Score: 1
  
  Thanks for clarifying the relationship between commitment and benefit. That relationship is the real power of open source software. I also like how you point out that having a selfish motive in open source software can be a good thing.
  
  --
  The diversity and expression of human opinion is essential to human survival.
48. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by fafaforza · 2011-07-17 03:45 · Score: 1
  
  I think the point was to not take the statistic too seriously. If you submit a buggy module, then fix some things and resubmit, you doubled the number of contributions for the same code. So the statistic itself isn't as telling.
  It's like the DocuWiki we use at work. I use the preview button a lot, so I'll just have one submission email for a whole page of info, screenshots, etc. Another worker apparently isn't aware of that feature, and you'll get update emails every few seconds, most of them spelling changes for individual words and fixes to heading nesting. Looking at emails alone, you'd figure that guy was the one with most contributions.
49. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Lorien_the_first_one · 2011-07-17 03:59 · Score: 1
  
  You want to know why the current administration is not actively investigating Microsoft? I think the answer can be seen in part from Obama's statements about innovation. When he says he wants to "out-innovate" the world, I think he is speaking from the perspective of a president of an intellectual property exporting nation. By many of his statements, he appears to be a patent hawk. He may see the patent wars as a natural outcome of a free market, rather than a burden on a free market.
  
  It is also worth noting that Obama has tapped many people from the RIAA to work in the DOJ. These actions smack of someone who believes in the power of intellectual property.
  
  Given the current state of patent law, the disposition of the current administration and the emphasis on deficit reduction in policy debates, I hold out little hope for any deep probing of Microsoft over their patent posturing and extortion.
  
  --
  The diversity and expression of human opinion is essential to human survival.
50. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Jumpy · 2011-07-17 04:46 · Score: 1
  
  Something similar can be found in both VMware (vmxnet 2/3 adapter) and KVM (virtio paravirtualized adapters).
  
  --
  -- If there's one thing i can't stand, it's intolerance!
51. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by superwiz · 2011-07-17 05:57 · Score: 2
  
  Why we even want Microsoft's VM module I will never understand given Microsoft wants to see Linux rot in hell and never be allowed to surface again. Microsoft as a company calls us a virus that infects everything ruining everything it touches, thieves and intellectual pirates. You should never accept anything from someone actively trying to stab you in the back. When the person is getting behind you it isn't for encouragement but rather so they get a better angle to stab you in the back.
  Welcome to capitalism. Trade forces enemies to cooperate out of necessity (in exchanges which are mutually beneficial). The fact that the two trading parties may want to see each others' demise doesn't preempt the fact that they benefit in the short run from mutual exchange. Once they are deep enough in each others' pockets, past reasons for conflicts become obsolete.
  
  --
  Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
52. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 06:02 · Score: 0
  
  "Ideally, we want companies like MS to make money from the success of free software. The more they do so, the more they will understand the opportunities they are missing. The more they rely on our success, the more everyone benefits."
  Like with the "patent agreement" fees for Android hanset manufacturers? (sorry couldn't resist)
53. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 06:30 · Score: 0
  
  So what are you contributing except your infantile M1cr0sux LOL!L!L!!!1 ranting?
  Not that it'll actually get through to you, but has it occurred to you that Microsoft contributing the code constitutes something rather like a waiver, which would prevent them from acting against it later? No, I'm sure you didn't think, except to further juvenile fantasies about fighting the dark evil overlords.
  Blah blah blah "convicted monopolist" blah blah ten god damned years going and you idiots still don't have anything new to say blah blah.
54. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by exomondo · 2011-07-17 13:46 · Score: 1
  
  I am actually quite surprised that Apple has not tried to push patches to Linux for kernel GCD support yet.
  Why? What is it you think is so great about GCD that you think makes it relevant to be in the kernel?
55. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 14:25 · Score: 0
  
  So? A contribution is a contribution, even if it is for selfish reasons.
  Next: Microsoft announces new patent violations by Linux...
56. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Grishnakh · 2011-07-17 15:07 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, but it doesn't take away from anything. In addition, even though the driver isn't useful to anyone besides Hyper-V users, the code itself can be useful for other developers as a reference. It's always useful to see how other people solved problems.
  This is why the kernel device driver devs want everyone to submit their drivers for inclusion in the mainline kernel, even if it's for some obscure item that only 5 people use. It serves as a reference for others, plus it helps them better understand how to architect things, by seeing if there's commonalities in different drivers.
  The same might be true for the Hyper-V stuff: it could very well have commonalities with KVM or other similar subsystems. Someone might see this, and create a common layer that all these systems use and share. This reduces the total amount of code, and reduces bugs (because instead of 5 things doing the same basic thing, you only have 1 thing).
  Honestly, I'm a little surprised that MS has been as benign as it's been in the last 5 years. At this rate, Apple is going to be the most evil tech company very soon.
57. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Grishnakh · 2011-07-17 15:09 · Score: 1
  
  Suppose the free software ecosystem helps MS to make money, then what? That money is just going to go into expanding their walled garden. It's basically shooting ourselves in the foot.
  I hate to defend MS of all companies, but your post indicates that you completely don't understand economics at all. It's not a zero-sum game.
  Ever heard the phrase "a rising tide lifts all boats"?
58. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by twothousand · 2011-07-17 15:26 · Score: 1
  
  I agree. You can not trust MS while they are still black mailing Android OEM.
59. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by cthulhu11 · 2011-07-17 15:49 · Score: 1
  
  but people using Linux get an inferior experience This is the Linux way, of course. Having recently been forced to start deploying RHEL instead of Solaris, I'm constantly running into shit that's either just stupid, or 15 years out of date.
60. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by ILongForDarkness · 2011-07-17 15:53 · Score: 1
  
  And everything is for selfish reasons. Even if you do it because it is a good thing to do, you still did it because You thought it was a good thing to do. Everything is selfish even something as trivial as posting to /. it fulfills some need to communicate/have my opinion heard. If it didn't provide me any enjoyment/reputation etc I'd just spend another 5 minutes browsing for porn instead ;-)
61. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by ILongForDarkness · 2011-07-17 16:02 · Score: 1
  
  My understanding is that those restrictions due to monopoly power abuses have lapsed. No a company does not have to play by a different set of rules indefinitely only until their "sentence" has been served. What good is it to continue to punish a company and its 10's of thousands of employees livelihoods because of some stupid mistake that might have been done under several generations of previous management, when the laws weren't clearly defined in the industry etc? At some point companies get another chance, for example: AT & T for a while wasn't allowed to do anything but domestic phone service from what I understand. But after a while they were allowed to add cell service, internet etc. You only need to break the monopoly not the company.
62. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by doccus · 2011-07-17 17:29 · Score: 1
  
  Well, I *Disagree* using quantity alone as any indicator iof value is tantamount to St peter at the pearly gates allowing Hitler in, because he only had one sin on the books (even if it was slaughtering 3 million) and refusing the poor old sod with 300 , even though each 'sin' was refusing to go to church on sundays for 10 years. So there.. Quantity by itself is Meaningless!
63. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by doccus · 2011-07-17 17:30 · Score: 1
  
  OOps bad math.. 6 million
64. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 19:51 · Score: 0
  
  Is it like a guest (not even an auxiliary member) trying to make corrections into a groups functionality and later saying "you can't do that!".
65. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by tiggertaebo · 2011-07-17 21:43 · Score: 1
  
  I still want to know why the Linux kernel should contain anything from a company that constantly assaults the community. A company who calls us thieves and intellectual pirates. Microsoft is going after Android OEMs saying that Linux violates their patents so they have to pay up on licensing fees. Yet Microsoft won't publicly announce what any of those patents are. In fact when Barnes and Noble called BS on Microsoft and refused to sign the NDA. It turned out Microsoft didn't sue over Linux they sued over web browsing and the interface, which is a long long way from Linux itself or even any Linux distribution.
  Maybe because some of us just want to Get The Job Done(TM) and couldn't give two shits about all the political bollocks
66. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by tehcyder · 2011-07-18 01:44 · Score: 1
  
  Or as someone tagged the article, "it's a trap."
  But all slashdot articles have this tag don't they? I can't say I pay much attention to them..
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
67. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by fuzzywig · 2011-07-18 02:34 · Score: 1
  
  Don't forget, Microsoft is a massive company, and frequently the left hand doesn't know what the right is up to. I'm assuming that's what the case is here.
68. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by powerlord · 2011-07-18 02:46 · Score: 1
  
  stopped reading after "Yes, but ...".
  stopped reading after "stopped reading ..."
  
  --
  This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
69. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-18 06:06 · Score: 0
  
  "Do not more than 15 patches at once to the vger mailing lists!!!"
  That reminds me of the time I accidentally 93MB of .rar files.
70. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by HappyPsycho · 2011-07-18 14:31 · Score: 1
  
  One issue with producing a common layer. What is holding back any MS lawyers from suing linux on the basis that the module infringes some patent MS holds / may be granted?
  Right now there are two things (or rather two sides to the same coin):
  1. The change only benefits them (pretty much scratch your own itch).
  2. If such a lawsuit is ever brought to bear the module will be dropped faster than you can say boo, plus any further contributions will be heavily scrutinized (which hurts them and no one else)
  #2 is a decent threat to linux and becomes quite difficult if a common layer is made. Technically I love the idea, would make writing a cross-virtual-platform management tool a allot easier. Businesswise / real-world not so much, unless there is some "we-will-not-sue" / "this-is-licensed-to-linux-indefinitely" clause that affects someone external to Microsoft refactoring the code. Somehow I don't think the GPL will win against a patent.
71. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Grishnakh · 2011-07-20 09:51 · Score: 1
  
  It seems to me that if MS contributes some patented code to Linux (I think it's safe to assume for this argument that if this common virtualization layer is affected by an MS patent, then MS's Hyper-V contribution would also be affected), then if the Linux devs take MS's code, rework it some, combine it with other similar code, etc., and produce a common layer which benefits Hyper-V/MS as well as other virtualization platforms, then MS tries to sue for patent infringement, that suit would immediately be thrown out of court because of "unclean hands". It's not that much different from MS contributing patented code to Linux and then suing based on usage of that code: it's unclean hands, and akin to setting a trap. Reworking the code into a common layer shouldn't change this.
72. Re:The number itself is entertaining but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-25 16:02 · Score: 0
  
  Because GCD makes sense?
  Even if you don't find it useful, other people will. And sooner or later if it's not in the kernel already, then Lennart's going to clone it just like he did with launchd and CoreAudio instead of just using already implemented open source code.
Yay by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · 2011-07-16 12:29 · Score: -1

361 new buffer overflow possibilities, regressions and invalid assumptions.
1. Re:Yay by BitZtream · 2011-07-16 13:32 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  So you're saying the people who review kernel patches are so shitty they couldn't spot any of the things you're referring too?
  You do realize you're insulting your own team more than the other team right, you're just too stupid to realize ... oh ... never mind.
  
  --
  Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
2. Re:Yay by RightSaidFred99 · 2011-07-16 13:36 · Score: 0, Troll
  
  Yeah, because Microsoft hires dummies and pays them shitty wages, you know? Here's a clue: You wouldn't make the cut in a Microsoft hiring process.
3. Re:Yay by flimflammer · 2011-07-16 14:46 · Score: 1
  
  Oh man, such a clever and original burn.
4. Re:Yay by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 14:47 · Score: 0
  
  Not that I agree with the grandparent post, but Microsoft's hiring process isn't that tough. Outside of the research division and the Visual Studio team, I wasn't really impressed with anyone I met at Microsoft. From a purely technical perspective, the hiring process at Sun and Google was much more difficult and yielded far better results.
5. Re:Yay by Teun · 2011-07-16 18:43 · Score: 1
  
  In the end, sorry, in the USofA the only thing that counts is who has the better lawyers.
  
  --
  "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
6. Re:Yay by O('_')O_Bush · 2011-07-17 01:25 · Score: 1
  
  You're comparing Oxford vs Yale and Harvard. Regardless of which top computing company has the toughest hiring requirements, none of them are easy enough to allow the average bumbling idiot in (those that would make the mistakes described in the post you are referring to).
  
  --
  while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
Apple always contributes... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 12:29 · Score: -1

Nice to see Apple is 'giving back' big time. All those who complain Apple never contributes can eat the shit now.
1. Re:Apple always contributes... by JonJ · 2011-07-16 12:50 · Score: 0
  
  Are you high or something?
  
  --
  -- Linux user #369862
2. Re:Apple always contributes... by arkane1234 · 2011-07-17 06:44 · Score: 1
  
  You know Apple owns Microsoft, and just keep them around as a separate entity to keep antitrust lawsuits at bay.
  
  --
  -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
OK Fanboys by hjf · 2011-07-16 12:30 · Score: -1, Offtopic

Slashdotters love Apple and Google. How much did they contribute?
1. Re:OK Fanboys by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 12:38 · Score: 0
  
  Counting rejections, somewhere between a negative and zero.
2. Re:OK Fanboys by mikael_j · 2011-07-16 12:47 · Score: 0
  
  Why would Apple contribute to the Linux kernel? They're using a fork of Mach called XNU for OS X and iOS...
  
  --
  Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
3. Re:OK Fanboys by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 12:50 · Score: -1
  
  Yep, so Apple are classic leaches then.
4. Re:OK Fanboys by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 12:55 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah, if they wanted to use it, they'd just fork it and call their own.
5. Re:OK Fanboys by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 12:58 · Score: 0
  
  People who don't use linux and don't contribute to Linux are leeches?
  
  Classic Freetard.
6. Re:OK Fanboys by Stormwatch · 2011-07-16 12:59 · Score: 1
  
  Indeed, as we all know, Apple doesn't release any free software...
  
  --
  Circumcision is child abuse.
7. Re:OK Fanboys by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 12:59 · Score: 0
  
  2/10 Try harder.
8. Re:OK Fanboys by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 13:13 · Score: 0
  
  Leaching off open source, itard.
9. Re:OK Fanboys by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 13:20 · Score: 0, Interesting
  
  By the same token, why would Microsoft contribute to the Linux kernel? They're using a fork of Windows called Windows for Windows and Windows. I agree that Apple has no reason to contribute to Linux, but still, Microsoft has showed them up :P
10. Re:OK Fanboys by omfgnosis · 2011-07-16 13:28 · Score: 1
  
  Your argument might have more merit if you were complaining that they don't contribute to the projects they use themselves (which, apart from WebKit, is probably a slam dunk argument, but I don't know offhand). Complaining that Apple doesn't contribute to Linux is like complaining that Google doesn't contribute to Gecko.
11. Re:OK Fanboys by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 13:39 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Microsoft has a reason, it's called Hyper-V. Microsoft wants companies to use Hyper-V instead of VMWare and other virtualization platforms, and for that to work, even if Microsoft detests it, they need to support Linux as a virtualized guest.
12. Re:OK Fanboys by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 13:59 · Score: -1
  
  Token bullshit so fanbois like you can keep on repeating it.
13. Re:OK Fanboys by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2011-07-16 14:37 · Score: 1
  
  Token bullshit so fanbois like you can keep on repeating it.
  Hahah. I have this image in my head of Steve Jobs ordering a new division of developers to write OSS tools in order to stir up fanboyism on Slashdot.
  
  --
  
  "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
14. Re:OK Fanboys by wmac · 2011-07-16 14:39 · Score: -1
  
  You mean Google does not use Linux, as in it's Android? When we are counting linux usage , android is a linux, when counting contribution it is not?
15. Re:OK Fanboys by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 14:40 · Score: -1
  
  And I have this image of Steve Jobs's dick and Apple fanbois's mouths. What was your point again?
16. Re:OK Fanboys by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 14:48 · Score: 0
  
  The point was that a fanboy like you would make a statement like that. It was nice of you to illustrate it!
17. Re:OK Fanboys by mab · 2011-07-16 15:07 · Score: 0
  
  Apple own CUPS which most distros use.
18. Re:OK Fanboys by colinrichardday · 2011-07-16 15:50 · Score: 1
  
  Isn't most of the open-source software that Apple uses derived from BSD? If you don't like Apple's use of it, complain to the BSD people to change their license (good luck with that).
19. Re:OK Fanboys by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 20:01 · Score: 0
  
  Bought with money
20. Re:OK Fanboys by TheRaven64 · 2011-07-16 23:41 · Score: 1
  A few Apple contributions to open source:
  
  Several hundred thousand lines of code to LLVM / Clang. This includes a production quality [Objective-]C[++] compiler and a mostly complete C++0x standard library implementation, which will be replacing GNU libstdc++ in FreeBSD 10.
  
  Most of WebKit. If you're using any browser other than IE or FireFox, you're probably using Apple's open source contributions.
  
  Libdispatch. Works very nicely for me on FreeBSD, and was released by Apple in a form that required minimal porting. They also released their Apache back end using it, so people using Apache on other platforms can benefit from libdispatch with just a simple configuration tweak.
  
  Their mDNS-SD implementation, which we used on a variety of platforms.
  
  CUPS, which most *NIX systems use for printing.
  
  They've released a lot more, but these are the bits that come to mind that I use every day on non-Apple platforms. Perhaps you could list all of the open source contributions by Microsoft that you use on non-Microsoft platforms?
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
K.... Y..... by ChipMonk · 2011-07-16 12:30 · Score: 1, Funny

Insert your own flamebait joke here.

Wait, did I say "insert"? D'oh!
Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by gavron · 2011-07-16 12:35 · Score: -1, Redundant

Microsoft contributed stuff so their code would work.
Does it make "linux" better? No.
Does it allow THEIR code to work? Yes.
This "one developer" who contributed it all. Is he the guy who wrote it all... or the guy Microsoft said "Hey you'll be submitting the team's contributions"?
I know it's supposed to be fanboi-good for me to say Microsoft Bad, Google Good, Linux good. Fortunately I believe this.
Microsoft bad.
Google good.
Linux good.
If you feel differently go to backslashdot.com.
E
1. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 12:57 · Score: 0
  
  Fanboy detected. Insert bullet to continue.
2. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 12:58 · Score: 0
  
  Another reason for to rattle patent swords at LINUX, There still haven't said how much for LINUX they have put into Windows
3. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by Jeremiah+Cornelius · 2011-07-16 13:01 · Score: 2
  
  He's got it right...
  Except for the Google part. They are going to sell your testicles to the CIA for nothing, while making it look like giving you a free service.
  
  --
  "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
  Never been known to fail..."
4. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by BitZtream · 2011-07-16 13:30 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Microsoft contributed stuff so their code would work.
  Does it make "linux" better? No.
  Does it allow THEIR code to work? Yes.
  So interoperability is bad? Thats pretty fucking funny considering the number of fanboys such as yourself that shout that MS goes out of its way to break interoperability.
  Would better interop not make Linux better? Seems rather illogical to say that Linux working better with Windows is a bad thing, since that is what you're saying I'm going to have to assume one of us is as retarded as Corky from Life Goes On, and its not me.
  
  --
  Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
5. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by marcosdumay · 2011-07-16 13:33 · Score: 1
  
  "Does it make "linux" better?"
  
  Yes, it does. How Linux not doing stuff people want to do is good again? Should all the people that use the module fully change to Windows instead?
  
  --
  Rethinking email
6. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by gavron · 2011-07-16 13:44 · Score: 0, Troll
  
  No, I checked. it's you.
  They only added interoperability for them. It does nothing for linux.
  I know, facts upset you people who call everyone else fanboys.
  It's ok.
  One day when you're out of junior high (or ITT tech) you'll understand.
  E
7. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by gavron · 2011-07-16 13:45 · Score: 0, Redundant
  
  Sure. People who want to use windows should switch to windows. The "module" is useless to anybody else.
  You want windows? Go use windows.
  You want linux? Use linux.
  Microsoft contributed nothing that helps anyone who doesn't want to use windows.
  E
8. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-07-16 13:47 · Score: 1
  
  Does it make "linux" better? No.
  The code gives people more choices. For those already using Hyper-V, it gives them a choice of using Linux on their VMs instead of Windows. For those already using Linux, it gives them a choice of using Hyper-V to host their VMs instead of KVM, VMware or other solutions. Are you saying that choice is not good?
9. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2011-07-16 14:03 · Score: 1
  
  Except for the Google part. They are going to sell your testicles to the CIA for nothing, while making it look like giving you a free service.
  That's still in closed beta - so I'd appreciate it if you could send me an invite.
  
  --
  #DeleteChrome
10. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by gavron · 2011-07-16 14:14 · Score: 0
  
  > For those already using Hyper-V, it gives them a choice of using Linux on their VMs instead of Windows. For those already using Linux, it gives them a choice of using Hyper-V to host their VMs instead of KVM, VMware or other solutions
  You're saying the same thing twice.
  FOR THOSE USING WINDOWS, they can _also_ run Linux.
  If they ran Linux they could host whatever they want. THAT'S why Microsoft did this. VMware Server is free, and it runs on Linux or Windows, and it hosts EVERYTHING.
  If you're running Windows and Hyper-V... then you can't run everything.
  Please who choose to decrease their choices by running windows shouldn't go rushing out to buy greeting cards when some of those choices are returned to them. This does not enhance Linux nor the experience of anyone who uses it. It's for WINDOWS people wanting MORE WINDOWS functionality that they didn't get when they... wait for it... used Windows.
  E
11. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-07-16 15:14 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  FOR THOSE USING WINDOWS, they can _also_ run Linux.
  If they ran Linux they could host whatever they want. THAT'S why Microsoft did this. VMware Server is free, and it runs on Linux or Windows, and it hosts EVERYTHING.
  That's cool. Hyper-V Server is also free, and does not require any OS to run (VMware also has a similar product - ESX). You don't need to run Windows.
  Though I find it interesting that you object to running Linux in one proprietary piece of software (Hyper-V), but not the other (VMware). I'd understand your perspective it it was, at least, a matter of FOSS purity - but then you should, at least, argue for KVM or Xen.
  
  This does not enhance Linux nor the experience of anyone who uses it.
  It does enhance everyone's Linux experience if there are more Linux machines out there, don't you agree? If some previously Microsoft-only shop can now run e.g. LAMP instances on their Hyper-V servers, that's one more customer software and other companies would consider.
12. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by gavron · 2011-07-16 15:20 · Score: 1, Informative
  
  I think maybe I was unclear... so I'll try and repair that.
  Hyper-V does require an OS to run...hyper-v. It sucks because it's limited.
  VMware's ESXi server also requires an OS... vmware ESXi. It happens this one is based on a linux kernel.
  If people want to run Linux, and they choose to run it on Hyper-V their experience is limited. Microsoft has fixed some of their software's shortcomings... but Hyper-v is still limited.
  I know you're trying to imply neither product needs an OS. This is not true. Both products are built into an OS. The Linux product (VMware ESXi) does not require 361 Microsoft patches to work.
  E
13. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-07-16 15:29 · Score: 1
  
  Your argument seems to be boiling down to "VMware is just better, therefore no other choices are needed" - though I haven't seen you give any specific reasons why one is better than the other.
  I wouldn't be surprised if VMware is a better choice in many cases - if nothing else, it's an older, more mature technology - but have you considered that your judgement on that matter may be subjective, and letting others decide which software, or combination of software, is better for them, is not such an offensive idea?
14. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by gavron · 2011-07-16 15:37 · Score: 0
  
  This is not a religion. The OP was talking about contributions to Linux. I pointed out MS's contributions are only because their products didn't [and now do] interoperate.
  They fixed. That's fine. Consumers choose (that's fine too). The important thing is to remember it's not like MS was building up Linux... they were fixing their bugs.
  Hyper-V... VMware... KVM... whatever. I don't worship any of them. HOWEVER, the fixes the OP discussed are because MS had software that didn't work.
  Best and good weekend,
  E
15. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by Ost99 · 2011-07-16 15:53 · Score: 2
  
  So let me get this straight:
  Microsoft is BAD for releasing Linux drivers
  VMware is GOOD for releasing Linux drivers
  It's OK to run Windows from within Linux, but not the other way around?
  I fail to see what your argument is.
  Does improvements in Hyper-V drivers make Linux better? Yes
  Does it benefit those who don't use Hyper-V? Yes, indirectly by increasing the user base, thus providing more incentive for others to release software for Linux.
  Does it benefit existing Microsoft customers the most? Yes (but why is that a problem?)
  
  --
  ---- Sig. gone.
16. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by Ost99 · 2011-07-16 16:09 · Score: 1
  
  This has nothing to do with windows, it's drivers for running Linux better in Hyper-V.
  Despite what you might think, Hyper-V != Windows.
  Unless you're a VMware employee, I fail to see why you'd want to exclude Linux from working in Hyper-V.
  
  You want windows? Go use windows.
  You want linux? Use linux.
  This I just don't understand. Are you saying that if you have an existing Windows server infrastructure, you should be prevented from using Linux servers when that's more suitable?
  Getting approval for putting a Linux server as a guest on your existing virtualized infrastructure (pitch as a virtual appliance if necessary) is usually way easier that getting approval for changing your whole IT infrastructure (changing hypervisor or using two different ones).
  
  --
  ---- Sig. gone.
17. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by gavron · 2011-07-16 16:16 · Score: 0
  
  This "approval" you speak of, you mean you have to do all the wrong stuff but someone who doesn't know jack has to approve it when you tell them how to do it right.
  I mourn for you, brother.
  E
18. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by WorBlux · 2011-07-16 16:21 · Score: 2
  
  Not really, say you run ten services, all virtual in their own instance to minimize downtime and provide redundancy 4 use windows specific programs, the the rest will run on Linux. You use a windows host to make sure nothing freaky happens. Having drivers int the kernel to support any quirks of hyper-V and improve performance is still going to help you, without flooding the server room with physical machines, and without adding substantial maintenance costs. Or say a company is all windows, has some virtualization, but want's to add a service that runs better in Linux. Then it becomes very easy to just install and instance of CentOS or Redhat (depending on management and local expertise) and get the service running. No need for new hardware, the kernel just integrates into what you already have setup. That's the point of the Linux kernel really, to be able to deploy or integrate it wherever you want. There really is meaning to the term office politics. You most often won't get what you want, unless or until you find a way the minimally disrupts the work other people are already doing.
19. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by gavron · 2011-07-16 16:28 · Score: -1, Troll
  
  Windows specific programs?
  As servers?
  So nothing freaky happens (like ... you use windows so that non respond in a standards-compliant manner)
  Improve performance? Well that's not windows.
  Avoiding substantial maintenance costs? Well that's not windows.
  "and instance" = "an instance"?
  Basically it's clear you're inventing things, have no understanding of servers, services, or windows.
  If you're using windows for server-side work, you've already lost.
  I'm sure you'll find some way to spin it... but since Microsoft doesn't pay ME to be a shill, have a nice evening.
  E
20. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by Ost99 · 2011-07-16 16:31 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  1) Hyper-V has worked fine with Linux hosts for a long time, this is just a code cleanup and bug fix for existing Hyper-V specific drivers in the kernel.
  2) VMWare also needs guest drivers to get Linux to run as it should. These are not part of the Linux kernel. VMware releases their drivers separably, but you still need them to make full use of the server.
  Microsoft decided it would be easier for their users if they got their drivers included in the kernel. More work for Microsoft and the kernel maintainers, less work for the users.
  
  --
  ---- Sig. gone.
21. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by arth1 · 2011-07-16 17:43 · Score: 1
  
  Should all the people that use the module fully change to Windows instead?
  Is this a trick question? Surely you're aware that in order to run Microsoft Hyper-V, you must have Windows 2008 Server as the primary OS under the Hyper-V, and run a Windows desktop to be able to configure the hypervisor. So anyone using the module are already fully Windows; no change needed.
  Contrast this with other commercial hypervisors like Xen and VMware, and you'll find that those are far less Windows-centric and lets users embrace both Linux and Windows, and switch either way if they so want.
22. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by WorBlux · 2011-07-16 17:52 · Score: 1
  
  Things that use ASP or .net, or silverlight, or the exhange protocol, or ... Improve performance vs. having reverse engineered drivers that throw random errors.
  Adding one extra virtual machine to an already existing solution is cheaper then hireing or training a guy for a different one and finding, locating and installing software for it. Hell of a lot easier to get it past management as well.
  And ya, I work for M$ just because I can think of one instance where one of their specific products could be useful to someone. Really if that's all I needed to do to get a job at M$, that would be a cushy life, let me tell you, far easier than any actual job I've ever had.
23. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by Alex+Belits · 2011-07-16 18:08 · Score: 0
  
  Getting approval for putting a Linux server as a guest on your existing virtualized infrastructure (pitch as a virtual appliance if necessary) is usually way easier that getting approval for changing your whole IT infrastructure (changing hypervisor or using two different ones).
  Linux under Windows is worse than Windows. All those things accomplish is making Linux look bad.
  
  --
  Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
24. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 18:36 · Score: 0
  
  Apparently you don't need to have a good basic working knowledge of English to work for Microsoft.
25. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by Bungie · 2011-07-16 18:57 · Score: 1
  
  So nothing freaky happens (like ... you use windows so that non respond in a standards-compliant manner)
  If you're working for almost any large corporation you probably have Windows workstations and the easiest way to manage a large number of them is with Active Directory. They probably also will connect to Windows servers for shared file storage and printing, and they may even use other popular Microsoft products like Exchange and SharePoint.
  In this environment Windows is the standard and it is the Linux box which is the outcast and cannot interoperate fully with the rest of the corporate network.
  Don't try and spin any FUD here about corporations not using Microsoft either...I have worked for companies like IBM, who is a big time Linux supporter and has equivellent offerings for almost every line of corporate software Microsoft offers. You know what? They were running Windows workstations and had Windows servers for situations where they were simply the better solution.
  If you really have any understanding of servers you would know the strengths and weaknesses of both Windows and Linux server implementations and be able to plan accordingly.
  
  --
  The clash of honour calls, to stand when others fall.
26. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by Bert64 · 2011-07-16 19:29 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Interoperability for MS is a short term goal..
  When IE was new and competing with netscape, they worked to make it interoperable with netscape...
  Once netscape was gone, that flew out of the window and they tried to maintain lock-in.
  Now that firefox and chrome have become popular, ie is now trying to interoperate again.
  The same can be said of msoffice, when they faced serious competition they supported opening wordperfect files and had a relatively open rtf spec, once the competition was overcome they turn the screws of lockin again.
  I predict the same will happen with hyper-v if they get the chance... If vmware, xen and kvm fall by the wayside then it wont be long before hyper-v only runs windows, the linux support will stagnate and new versions of hyper-v will come out which aren't compatible with it.
  
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27. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by Bert64 · 2011-07-16 19:34 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, current versions of VMware require windows machines for the management infrastructure, it was only older versions (esx 2.x and earlier) which came with a linux client.
  This is the reason i stopped using vmware, and migrated all my machines to kvm.
  
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28. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by Bert64 · 2011-07-16 19:37 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Interestingly, windows boots a lot faster inside of a vm running on linux than it does on the hative hardware (seriously, give it a try)...
  If going the other way round, linux runs somewhat slower inside of a vm running on windows... The performance penalty when running in a vm on linux is much smaller.
  
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29. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 20:42 · Score: 0
  
  Even better: If you had a bunch of Windows-dependent apps, you can now add Linux bits piecemeal until everything is Linux, then you can drop their VM server underneath and go Xen or something. Interoperability goes both ways.
30. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 00:44 · Score: 0
  
  You're a dumb cunt and a shitball.
31. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 04:50 · Score: 0
  
  Apparently you're a troll that cant' address issues of substance. BTW, I can post anonymously too.
32. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by marcosdumay · 2011-07-17 06:19 · Score: 1
  
  It's not a trick question. If people want the Linux module is because they are running Linux.
  If they can't run Linux in a usefull way in their environment they will either stop using Linux or change their environment. But remember that those people are running Windows as a host OS, they aren't in there for technical reasons.
  
  --
  Rethinking email
33. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by Jumpy · 2011-07-17 06:35 · Score: 1
  
  Since I deal mainly with Linux servers (Red Hat) VMware has been more and more of a headache for me because of this dependence on Windows. Plus having our VMware stuff locked down also causes headaches. But I need test Linux VMs. Lately I'm using kvm A LOT and I really love it. It completely rocks.
  
  --
  -- If there's one thing i can't stand, it's intolerance!
34. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by arkane1234 · 2011-07-17 06:45 · Score: 1
  
  I do not think that word means what you think it means...
  
  --
  -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
35. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by TheRealGrogan · 2011-07-17 07:45 · Score: 1
  
  "This I just don't understand. Are you saying that if you have an existing Windows server infrastructure, you should be prevented from using Linux servers when that's more suitable?"
  I do understand it. He is saying it doesn't benefit anyone except those who want to run Linux under Hyper-V on Windows. It does not improve the Linux kernel in any other way.
  It also seems that he doesn't care about people who want to use Windows. Go use it. It doesn't benefit him that you can run Linux on Hyper-V. Frankly, I don't give a fuck either. I'm neither for, nor against it, as long as my compiler doesn't have to touch those code paths.
  This certainly doesn't impress me. (Microsoft's "contributions" to the Linux kernel). People on the kernel mailing list who may or may not even contribute one line of code, may contribute more to the Linux kernel than this, in helping to get problems fixed. For example, the guy who does a git bisect to track down a commit that broke something is to be commended more than this. What he does may benefit all users.
  Using statistics inappropriately is dishonesty.
36. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by arth1 · 2011-07-17 12:40 · Score: 1
  
  Now that Red Hat sells support for KVM with RHEL 6, it's what I will be going to too. Earlier Red Hat had Citrix Xen, which is really good, but has started lagging a bit behind, kernel-wise, so I understand the switch.
  And the lagging behind is what I fear may happen with Hyper-X too -- with only the vendor supporting it, and no strong community base that keeps the drivers up to date, it's a real risk that they won't be updated often enough, just like Xen.
37. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by Kalriath · 2011-07-17 13:00 · Score: 1
  
  Is this a trick question? Surely you're aware that in order to run Microsoft Hyper-V, you must have Windows 2008 Server as the primary OS under the Hyper-V, and run a Windows desktop to be able to configure the hypervisor.
  Or, be willing to visit a website and download Hyper-V Server for free. No Windows necessary. It uses Windows Server 2008 Core to host the hypervisor, but they give it to you for free. Same as ESX, really.
  
  So anyone using the module are already fully Windows; no change needed.
  Contrast this with other commercial hypervisors like Xen and VMware, and you'll find that those are far less Windows-centric and lets users embrace both Linux and Windows, and switch either way if they so want.
  I think you'll find that's not correct at all. And VMware sucks by the way. vSphere Administrator seems to be Windows only (we use vSphere here) and just outright sucks. We can't even find out what server our VMs are running on (VMware figures you don't need to know, thanks to live migration).
  
  --
  For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
38. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by owlstead · 2011-07-17 13:14 · Score: 2
  
  That said, Windows seems to boot faster in a VM inside of Windows too. This is not so strange, the virtual hardware is probably a lot easier to detect and find drivers for than the full machine. I'm pretty sure that most programs run (slightly) slower after boot.
39. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by DCFusor · 2011-07-17 13:30 · Score: 1
  
  Seconded. And another geek/developer visited recently and noticed the same thing with no prompting. WinXP boots like the wind in Virtual Box....but not so great on identical hardware "native". Though I suppose it's not identical -- VB only shows a windows XP instance a nicely optimized fixed set of hardware, nothing for windows to search for new hardware on, unless you explicitly add something from a VB menu. I think this might be due to a difference in philosophies in setting up hardware in the first place. With say, Ubutntu 10.04, if it's there during install, it's nothing, it just works, but adding it later is a pain (not much, but some). Windows seems to check the entire universe at the drop of a hat (or any boot). That has to take time, and there's just nothing much to check in a simple virtual machine.
  
  --
  Why guess when you can know? Measure!
40. Re:Yes let's just get down and dirty in the code by DaVince21 · 2011-07-18 10:29 · Score: 1
  
  Bad? Good?
  Microsoft company.
  Google company.
  Linux mix of communities, organizations and companies.
  It's not exactly an easy comparison to make. Apples with fruit salad.
  
  --
  I am not devoid of humor.
changes != LoC by jamesh · 2011-07-16 12:36 · Score: 2, Insightful

In LWN.net's evaluation of the number of lines of code changed, Srinivasan and Microsoft are therefore nearer the bottom of the list. LWN.net found that Microsoft developers changed 11,564 lines of code (1.3 per cent) – compared to Intel's 163,232 (18.1 per cent).
Little changes are good, but simple count of changes isn't necessarily a good measure of work done. Lines of Code, while itself not a perfect measure, is better than simply Number of Commits.
1. Re:changes != LoC by Corbet · 2011-07-16 12:52 · Score: 1
  
  Lines of code is a terrible metric too, but LWN has both anyway.
  
  --
  Jonathan Corbet, LWN.net
2. Re:changes != LoC by scromp · 2011-07-16 12:54 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Describing LoC as a "not perfect" metric is an astonishing understatement.
3. Re:changes != LoC by maugle · 2011-07-16 14:07 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Describing LoC as a "not perfect" metric is an astonishing understatement.
  I
  disagree,
  using
  LoC
  as
  a
  metric
  has
  made
  my
  measured
  productivity
  skyrocket!
4. Re:changes != LoC by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 14:22 · Score: 0
  
  Yes, but in the current context, your feigned astonishment is a dramatic overstatement.
5. Re:changes != LoC by donweel · 2011-07-16 15:51 · Score: 1
  
  Truly. I believe this goes back to the IBM Microsoft days when IBM paid Microsoft by the Kloc or per 1000 lines of code. Old habits die hard.
  
  --
  Many a long talk since then I have had with the man in the moon; he had my confidence on the voyage. Joshua Slocum
6. Re:changes != LoC by bigstrat2003 · 2011-07-16 16:19 · Score: 1
  
  Of course changes != LoC. You'd have to make a hell of a lot of changes in order to make one Library of Congress' worth.
  
  --
  "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
7. Re:changes != LoC by arth1 · 2011-07-16 17:02 · Score: 1
  
  Burma Shave
8. Re:changes != LoC by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 17:33 · Score: 0
  
  in a mature shop, the number of bonus beers is inversely proportional to
  both the number of lines of codes and the number of commits for given functionality
9. Re:changes != LoC by jamesh · 2011-07-16 19:55 · Score: 1
  
  Of course changes != LoC. You'd have to make a hell of a lot of changes in order to make one Library of Congress' worth.
  which is the whole point... you could do it in one change or you could do it in millions. The number of changes wouldn't be a good measure of the amount of work done.
10. Re:changes != LoC by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 01:22 · Score: 0
  
  a
  m
  a
  t
  e
  u
  r
  .
  .
  .
11. Re:changes != LoC by bgat · 2011-07-17 05:29 · Score: 1
  
  I sincerely hope I'm not the only one who gets this joke! :)
  
  --
  b.g.
12. Re:changes != LoC by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 08:50 · Score: 0
  
  1 LOC. You are fired.
13. Re:changes != LoC by rrohbeck · 2011-07-17 15:25 · Score: 1
  
  Measuring code quality by LoC is like measuring a plane's quality by tons of weight.
  Dunno where that originated.
  You should see some of the old checkins in our repo when management ran reports on LoC per developer. Lots of cutting and pasting or writing a C program where 3 lines of bash or perl would have been the correct solution :(
  
  --
  thegodmovie.com - watch it
14. Re:changes != LoC by DaVince21 · 2011-07-18 10:37 · Score: 1
  
  Only if you're really measuring "work done". If each commit is a possible bug fix or improvement, and said bug fix or improvement required very few extra or changed lines, the net result is still that one bug is down or one improvement has been made.
  For example, on the Wine changelog I can always find out rather well how many implementations, fixes or improvements have been made on a specific part of the software, even if my technical knowledge of these parts themselves doesn't go too far.
  
  --
  I am not devoid of humor.
15. Re:changes != LoC by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-19 08:54 · Score: 0
  
  Wouldn't this help.
  I \
  disagree, \
  using \
  LoC \
  as \
  a \
  metric \
  has \
  made \
  my \
  measured \
  productivity \
  skyrocket!
Not Microsoft... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 12:40 · Score: 5, Informative

He has only been part of Microsoft since february 2011. Until then, he was part of Novel.
1. Re:Not Microsoft... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 12:58 · Score: 1
  
  But since he joined Microsoft he made 425 changes.
2. Re:Not Microsoft... by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · 2011-07-16 13:04 · Score: 1
  
  Because he has kernel Commit privs and that's why Microsoft hired him??? Nah. Too logical. Probably a conspiracy instead.
3. Re:Not Microsoft... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 17:17 · Score: 0
  
  Sooo... he has always been part of Microsoft... ;)
  P.S.: Isn't it a bit perverse, to describe a human being as being "part" of a company? Like it's some kind of giant mutant blob like the "Great Link" in DS9.
4. Re:Not Microsoft... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 15:09 · Score: 0
  
  He has only been part of Microsoft since february 2011. Until then, he was part of Novel.
  It's NovelL with two Ls, you stupid son of a bitch. A novel is a book.
5. Re:Not Microsoft... by rrohbeck · 2011-07-17 15:26 · Score: 1
  
  Sounds like he was embraced and his role was expanded.
  
  --
  thegodmovie.com - watch it
6. Re:Not Microsoft... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 16:53 · Score: 0
  
  and before that, a key SVR4/MP developer at USL. Scary smart.
7. Re:Not Microsoft... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-19 22:56 · Score: 0
  
  I doubt they would grab a Windows NT kernel neuter to fix the hypervisor for the Linux Kernel - I doubt even more Linus would allow a pure MS NT kernel dev anywhere near it (to keep the GNU/Linux fanbois happy) - so I guess that does make some sense. In essence, you are implying that this guy committed at least some of his changes, most likely most, before jumping ship? Can we see when this guy committed the changes? Did Novell have any interest in the hypervisor?
monkey taking a picture by fermion · 2011-07-16 12:41 · Score: 1

So the amazement here is that MS can submit deltas, in much the same way that monkey can take a picture. Last time I checked MS was a software development firm, and did work with linux. It makes sense that they would in fact try to modify the kernel to meet their needs, which may be different than others. In any case they seem to contribute a factor of 3 less than other major players.

--
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
1. Re:monkey taking a picture by Stormwatch · 2011-07-16 13:10 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  It's still amusing to see Microsoft touching Linux at all while their monkey of a CEO slanders it and throws veiled threats at its userbase.
  
  --
  Circumcision is child abuse.
2. Re:monkey taking a picture by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 13:13 · Score: 0
  
  This just in: Monkey fling poo. Film at 11:00.
3. Re:monkey taking a picture by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 13:45 · Score: 0
  
  A factor of 3 less than other major players that base their entire business around Linux.
  Compare that to Google with their Android effort. Comparing it to a major player in the Linux world is flat out stupid.
4. Re:monkey taking a picture by larry+bagina · 2011-07-16 15:01 · Score: 1
  
  Android uses a fork of linux and they don't contribute anything back to the main line.
  
  --
  Do you even lift?
  These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
5. Re:monkey taking a picture by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 15:14 · Score: 0
  
  For starters, I think you missed my point considering that you turned around and made it, but seemingly as a positive for Google.
  Secondly, I think you might be interested in this blog post by Greg Kroah-Hartman entitled Android and the Linux kernel community.
6. Re:monkey taking a picture by VortexCortex · 2011-07-16 15:58 · Score: 2
  
  Even more interesting is that MS submitted code, then the most changes in the 3.0 kernel by an individual were to the MS submitted kernel code by a MS dev in order to bring MS's code up to the Linux standard so it could be included in the kernel...
  It makes you wonder about code that MS doesn't have to let anyone else see i.e. their proprietary products.
  (Actually, it make me wonder less -- This just confirms that they haven't really changed their coding habits since I last saw the mess that was the leaked Windows source code.)
7. Re:monkey taking a picture by swillden · 2011-07-16 16:33 · Score: 2
  
  It makes you wonder about code that MS doesn't have to let anyone else see i.e. their proprietary products.
  It really doesn't. Bringing the code "up to the Linux" standard doesn't necessarily have anything to do with quality. I'm sure that the quality was improved by the process, but that's normal any time intense scrutiny is applied to a piece of code of any size. Another round of intense scrutiny would improve it some more. I'm sure much of it was also a matter of complying with Linux coding style standards. Changing from one style to another can produce a large volume of trivial changes.
  I also would not be surprised if the quality of the code is Linux is somewhat higher than the quality level common at Microsoft. But I don't think this tells you one way or another.
  
  --
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8. Re:monkey taking a picture by bledri · 2011-07-16 16:53 · Score: 1
  
  It's still amusing to see Microsoft touching Linux at all while their monkey of a CEO slanders it and throws veiled threats at its userbase.
  If they want to sell licenses in shops that run their VMs on Linux servers, then it's to their advantage the patch the KVM so Windows runs well in those environments. Of course it is tacit admission that those environments matter (or at least exist in sufficient quantities to merit the effort.) If asked about this directly they can just say something like, "Well of course Windows is a far superior platform for your servers, but some IT departments insist on using subpar technology and we want to provide our customers the best experience possible until the miscreants are replaced or comes to his senses."
  
  --
  Some privacy policy Slashdot.
9. Re:monkey taking a picture by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 16:58 · Score: 0
  
  Shhhh. Grown ups are talking.
10. Re:monkey taking a picture by FrootLoops · 2011-07-16 18:18 · Score: 1
  In any case they seem to contribute a factor of 3 less than other major players.
  Yes, let's use this as another opportunity to bash Microsoft. We don't get nearly enough of those around here.
  
  "Microsoft didn't submit any Linux kernel changes!" = money grubbing bastards; they should open up to open source!
  
  "Microsoft didn't submit as many Linux kernel changes as Intel!" = their changes are entirely selfish, and therefore evil!
  
  "Microsoft submitted more Linux kernel changes than anyone!" = their quality must be awful.
  
  "Microsoft hired God himself to contribute code to the Linux kernel!" = time to become an atheist.
11. Re:monkey taking a picture by Bert64 · 2011-07-16 19:44 · Score: 1
  
  What helps improve code quality, is not having deadlines...
  MS and other commercial organisations will ship code that isn't ready in order to meet deadlines, and put their developers under intense pressure to meet the deadlines causing them to cut corners.
  Linux has no such pressure, and developers are free to progress at their own pace. If something isn't ready, it doesn't get included, or gets partitioned off in the staging area with big warnings attached.
  Another issue is that of visibility. If you're working in a big company on a large software project, its unlikely your contributions will even be acknowledged publicly, and conversely a failure if your code is unlikely to be directly blamed on you.
  With Linux however, the code you submit will have your name attached to it forever. So while submitting good code makes good publicity for you, submitting bad code earns you a reputation for writing bad code.
  
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12. Re:monkey taking a picture by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 02:59 · Score: 0
  
  Oh, shut up. Small changes to one module that doesn't work properly don't count. So stop bashing us, MS bashers!
13. Re:monkey taking a picture by FoolishOwl · 2011-07-17 07:34 · Score: 2
  
  Last time I checked MS was a software development firm, and did work with linux.
  You'd think that this was common knowledge. Every company for which I've worked used a mix of Windows and Linux; of necessity efforts are made to make them work together.
  Sometimes I wonder how many Slashdotters actually work in IT.
14. Re:monkey taking a picture by swillden · 2011-07-18 02:48 · Score: 1
  
  What helps improve code quality, is not having deadlines... MS and other commercial organisations will ship code that isn't ready in order to meet deadlines, and put their developers under intense pressure to meet the deadlines causing them to cut corners.
  Somewhat. I recently started working for Google, and I've been quite impressed at the intense focus on code quality here. I think a lot of it has to do with having management who understands the reality of engineering, but at Google it appears that when the time pressure is on, everyone understands that the right thing to do is to cut functionality, not quality.
  At least in my little corner of Google. I can't speak for the rest of the company.
  In any case, I don't think the dynamic you describe is inherent in any commercial development. Extremely common, yes, but not inherent. And what I said about review and scrutiny improving the quality of code is absolutely true, and independent of context.
  
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15. Re:monkey taking a picture by DaVince21 · 2011-07-18 10:40 · Score: 1
  
  Well, Ballmer has been Flinging Windows since 1.0...
  Okay, that was a bad joke. I apologize. Even if Windows 1.0 was poo.
  
  --
  I am not devoid of humor.
This... is stupid. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 12:46 · Score: 5, Informative

Perhaps they couldn't care less (note the correct usage), what does that matter? So long as they contribute valid code, in compliance with licensing, that addresses a need, I don't care *who* contributes. Hell: Hans, from his jail cell, can contribute, for all of me. If it makes Linux better, and it's not some patent landmine, IJustDon'tGiveADamn.
As for user-driven innovation, yes, it is. For two reasons:
- Solo users still do contribute. Check the numbers.
- Solo users who manage to work for large companies does not mean they still don't adhere to the spirit.
So neener.
1. Re:This... is stupid. by PNutts · 2011-07-16 13:17 · Score: 1
  
  Hans can code with hibernation sickness?
2. Re:This... is stupid. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 13:53 · Score: 0
  
  Sure, he can do the power management.
3. Re:This... is stupid. by colinrichardday · 2011-07-16 15:33 · Score: 1
  
  Especially since if he screws up, it's his own life! That's motivation!
4. Re:This... is stupid. by inode_buddha · 2011-07-16 19:18 · Score: 1
  
  Linus, is that you? The thought patterns and writing style seem to indicate it.
  
  --
  C|N>K
5. Re:This... is stupid. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 22:51 · Score: 0
  
  Maybe.
6. Re:This... is stupid. by ewanm89 · 2011-07-17 00:25 · Score: 1
  
  Not to mention, I would call some of the corporations are Linux users, I mean, I think RedHat fits user as well as developer.
MS makes money off Linux by whiteboy86 · 2011-07-16 13:05 · Score: 1, Insightful

HTC, Samsung, LG and probably some others pay Linux royalties to Microsoft for their Android based phones. Actually MS makes more money from Android (Linux) then what they generate from Windows Phone 7 now. It would make sense to embed the whole Microsoft patent portfolio there to cement their rule over Linux.
1. Re:MS makes money off Linux by craigc05 · 2011-07-16 13:34 · Score: 1
  
  Not possible, even under GPL2 without a deal like they cut with Novell. Microsoft makes protection money from Android because anything you can do with a text editor and compiler is patented by somebody and frivolous patents are distributed well enough to make sure the reigning families can get their hands into the pockets of any developer that is actually making money.
2. Re:MS makes money off Linux by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 13:43 · Score: 0
  
  Only HTC has capitulated to their extortion attempts for their useless patents. Get your fucking facts right, dough boy.
3. Re:MS makes money off Linux by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 14:39 · Score: 0
  
  GPLv3 says hi.
4. Re:MS makes money off Linux by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 15:31 · Score: 0
  
  This is a false statement simply from your subject line. Linux is not Android. However, Android is Linux.
5. Re:MS makes money off Linux by PipsqueakOnAP133 · 2011-07-25 16:05 · Score: 1
  
  If Linux were GPLv3, you'd see a mass exodus for any reasonably powerful embedded system. And Android would probably get ported to a BSD by Google.
  So yeah, no patent suits would result, but mostly because nobody'd use it anymore.
Microsoft-Novell Exorcist Moment is Coming! by craigc05 · 2011-07-16 13:06 · Score: 1

The intent is probably paving the way for some demonspawn child they want to have with Novell. Treating this like Microsoft is trying to make Linux a more attractive alternative to their competing product line is incredibly disingenuous. That said, it's free code so it doesn't really matter what the intent is. It just means we may soon have a new feature in OpenSUSE that I'm not going to use.
1. Re:Microsoft-Novell Exorcist Moment is Coming! by dexomn · 2011-07-16 18:24 · Score: 0
  
  In the grand scheme of things Microsoft simply doesn't offer a product that truly competes with GNU/Linux. They bank on implementing proprietary methods and protocols to do things that people have already been doing. If it's put in a nice package and accompanied by some sort of guarantee that it will work (relying largely on clout) out of the box on a level where you don't need actual programmers or systems analysts to make it work, the execs will approve the purchase. Unfortunately what turns out to be a FUD over Functionality sales model ends up making sales.
  The SCO vs. IBM debacle was merely an experiment (also in part funded by Microsoft) to see what one could get away with by exploiting a flawed patent system. Why should a company pay indemnity fees (extortion, protection money) to use technology that doesn't contain anything that actually belongs to Microsoft? This is IMPLIED risk if you don't pay up. The stigma and FUD benefits only the ones who continue to push it and in turn impedes technological development through fear and exploitation. In the end the lawyers win, the sharks win, and progress is stifled.
  If you want to theorize on a tail wags the dog theory, just look at the multitude of work that is being contributed to the open source community by Google and Microsoft alike. Are they using Monsanto's 'Roundup Ready' business model to poison the genome of their rivals? I'm just going to shut up and put my tinfoil hat back on now.
2. Re:Microsoft-Novell Exorcist Moment is Coming! by Hal_Porter · 2011-07-17 17:56 · Score: 1
  
  Hmmm.
  "GNU\Linux, Proprietary, FUD, SCO, patent, lawyers".
  And that's Bingo for me!
  
  --
  echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Lindows? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 13:11 · Score: 0

Beware: next time you upgrade your kernel you'll get the windows logo instead of the tux. Sticking with 2.6 :-)
Re:Community Myth ;-/ by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · 2011-07-16 13:18 · Score: 2, Insightful

I wish people would get over this myth that idioms can't change and there's no such thing as colloquialisms.

Irregardless, "could care less" is incorrect because it's logically flawed.
Re:Community Myth ;-/ by JerkBoB · 2011-07-16 13:21 · Score: 1, Offtopic

Irregardless ...
I hope that was a joke!

--
A host is a host from coast to coast...
Unless it's down, or slow, or fails to POST!
Linux fanboys, all of you. by BitZtream · 2011-07-16 13:26 · Score: 0, Flamebait

And thats all you are.
As I post this, there are 34 comments, and 33 of them are just ignorant anti-microsoft flames. I don't like MS as much as the next guy, but you're just showing how pointless it is to care what any of you think, you are unpleasable. Nothing is good enough for you.
You're acting like a bunch of asshole teenagers, and you know what happens to asshole teenagers, everyone else ignores them and lets them dick around in their own idiotic little world until they grow out of it.
So what if MS is making patches for interoperability with their systems, if you had have a fucking clue you'd be happy for that since its practically impossible to not deal with Windows.
Whats better, is the code is code they've already submitted ... but wasn't up to your standards ... so they fixed all the issues to make it fit into the retarded little world of idiotic artificial restrictions placed on kernel code just to appease a bunch of GPL zealots ... did everything you want, and you still bitch.
These patches might make it easier for you little puds to run Linux under the MS hypervisor so you can have your Linux jerk fest even at a majority MS based company ...
Instead of looking like a bunch of angsty teenage morons, why don't you shut the fuck up and be thankful for a change.
I'm not a Linux fanboy, clearly, but I'm certainly pro-open source, my preference is FreeBSD, and never once have I bitched about an MS contributed patch. Its not like they can sneak something in, the patches are reviewed by everyone ... open source, remember? What do you think they're trying to do, run you out of existence via 'good compatibility'?
What the fuck is wrong with you people?
I should note, that almost all of these posts so far are 1million UIDs or AC, so it probably really is teenage angst, but holy shit no wonder no one commercially supports Linux, you guys are just ungrateful fucks.

--
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
1. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 13:33 · Score: -1
  
  Someone mod this up because its the truth.
2. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-07-16 13:56 · Score: 1
  
  You should really wait for more comments before pronouncing summary judgement over /. audience. First posts are more often than not emotionally driven, and there is little rational substance there, hence they tend toward groupthink. That, and mods didn't have a good pass yet - once they do, most early AC comments end up at -1, the more interesting stuff bubbles up, and then you see some insightful discussion in follow-up posts.
  
  my preference is FreeBSD, and never once have I bitched about an MS contributed patch.
  
  That's interesting - there was some code contributed to FreeBSD by Microsoft?
3. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 14:05 · Score: 0
  
  Agreed. Best post ever!
4. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 14:16 · Score: 0
  
  MS employee chastises a FreeBSD user who bitched about Linux users. Ohh shit, is the world going to implode?
5. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by Verunks · 2011-07-16 14:21 · Score: 2
  
  I should note, that almost all of these posts so far are 1million UIDs or AC, so it probably really is teenage angst, but holy shit no wonder no one commercially supports Linux, you guys are just ungrateful fucks.
  you must be new here
6. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by BitZtream · 2011-07-16 14:23 · Score: 0
  
  Okay, I've waited, its actually worse now.
  How many years does it take before rational thought trumps irrationally fanboys?
  
  That's interesting - there was some code contributed to FreeBSD by Microsoft?
  Are you seriously that ignorant or trying to be funny?
  Would you like specific contributions to FreeBSD kernel/userland, or is the fact that they released the CLR (see: rotor) for FreeBSD enough?
  
  --
  Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
7. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 14:25 · Score: 0
  
  Not saying that I'm (completely) disagreeing but with language like that you sound more like some of these pre-teens nowadays right after they've learned a new dirty word. And this is coming from a former bar manager!
  I hate asshole teenagers too but damn! Grow up and buy a fucking thesaurus. :)
8. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by mark-t · 2011-07-16 14:26 · Score: 1
  
  As long as they don't attempt to use their involvement with Linux to pull any sort of "oh, some of the code that was contributed was misappropriated from us, therefore we own X of Linux... no, we can't tell you which parts" at some point in the future, I don't really have a problem with MS contributing to my OS of choice.
  The thing is though... they're Microsoft... and I wouldn't put it past them to try something like that someday. I can certainly hope that they don't... but it still gives one reason to not necessarily think that this is all perfectly okay.
  
  --
  File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
9. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 14:31 · Score: 0
  
  This has to be one of the most pretentious posts I've ever read. Almost every point you made was made in a post above you (one of the ones you are bitching about) in a non-pretentious asshole way. As for the posts that actually were blatantly uniformed or just clearly anti-MS: I'm must say I'm shocked. I just can't believe that the people who commented without even taking the time to read the article and in some cases anything other than the headline had misinformed and inflammatory opinions. SHOCKED. THIS NEVER HAPPENS ON SLASHDOT! WHAT IS GOING ON!?!?!
  It must be angsty teenage assholes who don't remember the good old days of command line, of bbs, of phone phreaking and soldering irons and IBM selling PCs and true nerddom in all it's glory. GET OFF MY LAWN YOU FUCKS!
10. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-07-16 15:23 · Score: 1
  
  Are you seriously that ignorant or trying to be funny?
  I'm genuinely curious; I guess it would fall under "ignorant" then.
  (check my /. bio, by the way)
  
  Would you like specific contributions to FreeBSD kernel/userland, or is the fact that they released the CLR (see: rotor) for FreeBSD enough?
  I know very well about Rotor, though it hasn't been updated for ages (last release was in 2006), and even that version was XP-only - it was only the first one which ran on FreeBSD. It was mainly meant as a research project first and foremost - code to study to know how ECMA CLI spec can be efficiently implemented. That's why its license was "shared source", not FOSS, meaning no derivative works. As Mono matured, it took over that niche, so today Rotor is mainly interesting for those who want to know how Microsoft .NET in particular works (since it shares a lot of code with Rotor, or at least did back in the day) - implementation details and their performance implications etc.
  However, to the best of my knowledge, Rotor is not a part of FreeBSD userland, merely a third-party software package (is it even in ports, by the way?). I may have misinterpreted you, but I thought you were talking about contributions to FreeBSD project directly - the base system or the kernel. I'm not aware of such, but then I haven't been looking. Still, it would be interesting to know if there indeed are any.
11. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by arth1 · 2011-07-16 17:25 · Score: 1
  
  I don't like MS as much as the next guy
  No, you don't.
  
  , but [...]
  and then you go on proving it.
  
  the retarded little world of idiotic artificial restrictions placed on kernel code just to appease a bunch of GPL zealots
  Really, now. Since when was having a rigid API and coding standards a bad thing? Do you want to go back to the "anything goes" days and bad drivers causing panics or worse (undetected errors)? I am quite happy that Linux has tightened up the ship, and tossed out lots of bad code. There's more work to be done there, but it's well underway and things are better for it!
  
  make it easier for you little puds to run Linux under the MS hypervisor
  Sorry, but us "ignorant anti-microsoft" guys don't run MS Hyper-V. Why would we, when there are so many others to choose from? With Hyper-V, your first installed OS has to be Windows Server 2008, and you can't configure it without a Windows GUI. That goes against everything that "free" stands for, both as in freedom and as in beer.
  Even (since we toss insults around) spit-licking apologists like yourself surely must see that this is a piss-poor way of running Linux?
12. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by inode_buddha · 2011-07-16 18:50 · Score: 1
  
  Excuse me?
  
  --
  C|N>K
13. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by phonewebcam · 2011-07-16 21:05 · Score: 1
  
  "Its not like they can sneak something in". Hi, Nokia here - you called?
14. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 22:45 · Score: 0
  
  Erm, you must have not talked to any community, except for invite-only ones.
  In every community, there is a large portion of skeptics, ignorant flameboys, et cetera.
15. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by cyber-vandal · 2011-07-16 22:47 · Score: 1
  
  No-one supports Linux commercially? When did that happen?
16. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 23:26 · Score: 0
  
  692029 1000826. Obviously *you* must be new here.
17. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 00:00 · Score: 0
  
  Balmer? Is that you?
18. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by Kalriath · 2011-07-17 13:09 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, your base OS can be Hyper-V Server, which is a complete, freely (as in beer) downloadable and usable Hyper-V implementation on a much trimmed down free (as in beer) Windows Server 2008 edition. And you can configure it from... itself.
  
  --
  For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
19. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by badkarmadayaccount · 2011-07-18 04:24 · Score: 1
  
  Three reasons M$ won't dare attack the kernel directly:
  1.I
  2.B
  3.M
  
  --
  I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
20. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by mark-t · 2011-07-18 06:59 · Score: 1
  
  What can IBM do about it if they don't know that code has been misappropriated until it's already in there and Microsoft tells them? If microsoft claims that code was misappropriately inserted into Linux that was proprietary, what can even a big company like IBM do about it? Challenge it in court? Sure... but unlike the situation with SCO, Microsoft has *VERY* deep pockets, and could actually hurt IBM if they were so inclined.
  
  --
  File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
21. Re:Linux fanboys, all of you. by badkarmadayaccount · 2011-07-21 04:05 · Score: 1
  
  May I remind you not just IBM has a vested interest in linux. Microsoft is big, but not that big.
  
  --
  I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
Re:Community Myth ;-/ by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 13:36 · Score: 0

Irregardless, "could care less" is incorrect because it's logically flawed.
I couldn't care more, about that.
Re:Community Myth ;-/ by anomaly256 · 2011-07-16 13:43 · Score: 2, Funny

What? 'Irregardless' is a perfectly comulent word.
A Purge Needed by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 13:52 · Score: -1

The code from ANYONE at Microsoft is venom ... and must be dead ... and must be deleated.
Neither Microsoft nor Apple can be trusted! They are both EVIL. KILL their CODE! ... Let their
bodies BURN.
A real good day will be when the bodies of Microsoft and Apple employees are burning in the streets.
-- //
1. Re:A Purge Needed by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2011-07-16 14:08 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  The code from ANYONE at Microsoft is venom ... and must be dead ... and must be deleated.
  Neither Microsoft nor Apple can be trusted! They are both EVIL. KILL their CODE! ... Let their
  bodies BURN.
  A real good day will be when the bodies of Microsoft and Apple employees are burning in the streets.
  -- //
  Just a suggestion... cut back on the caffeine.
  
  --
  #DeleteChrome
2. Re:A Purge Needed by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 14:12 · Score: 0
  
  The code from ANYONE at Microsoft is venom ... and must be dead ... and must be deleated.
  Neither Microsoft nor Apple can be trusted! They are both EVIL. KILL their CODE! ... Let their
  bodies BURN.
  A real good day will be when the bodies of Microsoft and Apple employees are burning in the streets.
  -- //
  I'm going to enjoy the people without humor radars who respond in horror to this post.
3. Re:A Purge Needed by LocalH · 2011-07-16 17:14 · Score: 1
  
  What about the people who don't respond in horror but just plain damn think the OP wasn't funny?
  
  --
  FC Closer
yeh by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 14:24 · Score: 0

What about "thank you" and "but that does not means we are friends"... Keep tje code flowing
Repent! Repent! For the end is nigh.... by Inzite · 2011-07-16 14:31 · Score: 0

The Lord's book has foretold just this event, promised to occur just as Jesus Christ our savior returns to reign on earth as King of kings.

Or, the way I prefer to think about it: "Last call for fornicating and altar boy fondling! The party ends in five minutes. So satisfy your sinful urges one last time, and start moving towards the door. Oh yeah, and don't forget to step into the confessional on your way out."
Thats pretty slick of him by DirkDaring · 2011-07-16 14:32 · Score: 1

He's like a well oiled machine.
1. Re:Thats pretty slick of him by VortexCortex · 2011-07-16 16:03 · Score: 1
  
  He's like a well oiled machine.
  I agree -- Wait... You do mean that he tries to get work done without leaving too nasty of a mess everywhere, and that no one really wants to touch the messes that do get left behind?
Indent by tepples · 2011-07-16 14:36 · Score: 1

Then perhaps you could measure source lines of code after running the source code through a tool similar to GNU indent that applies agreed-upon standards for what goes on one line.
1. Re:Indent by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 16:22 · Score: 1
  
  StringBuilder output = new StringBuilder(128);
  builder.append("Yes,");
  builder.append(" of course,");
  builder.append(" because doing that");
  builder.append(" never has any");
  builder.append(" problems at all.\n");
  builder.append("In fact,");
  builder.append(" code like this");
  builder.append(" is so much");
  builder.append(" more");
  builder.append(" readable");
  builder.append(" and productive!");
  return output.toString();
2. Re:Indent by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 16:44 · Score: 0
  
  {{{sure{ I {Agree}}}}}
3. Re:Indent by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 20:20 · Score: 0
  
  Was this the motivation for python to use indentation instead of semicolons and
  Groovy to drop the requirement for semicolons -- so that developers couldn't
  inflate their LoC metrics?
4. Re:Indent by gl4ss · 2011-07-17 07:28 · Score: 1
  
  if you start paying by the lines, you'll pay by the lines.
  a real project however, should have less lines as time passes by, once the needed functionality is known.
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
This makes perfect sense. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 14:50 · Score: 0

Microsoft is the undisputed expert in programming. As a hobby OS, Linus was an OK caretaker, but it took a real programming muscle to grow the Linux into into something worthy.
Next up: MS Linux. It is the logical conclusion.
Or perhaps submarine patent issues? by Frosty+Piss · 2011-07-16 14:57 · Score: 1

361 new buffer overflow possibilities, regressions and invalid assumptions.
Or perhaps submarine patent issues?

--
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
1. Re:Or perhaps submarine patent issues? by colinrichardday · 2011-07-16 15:48 · Score: 1
  
  The contribution seems limited to one module, whose inclusion is of value to Microsoft. If they tried to pull such a stunt, the kernel developers could just drop the module.
MS developer != MS by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 15:02 · Score: 1

MS developer doesn't have to mean MS. Unless there is official support for working time responsibility.
1. Re:MS developer != MS by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 16:33 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Q. Will Microsoft continue to support Linux operating systems with Hyper-V?
  A. Yes, Microsoft provides integration components and technical support for customers running select Linux distributions as guest operating systems within Hyper-V. Please check the Supported Guest Operating Systems page for more information and updates.
  It definitly looks like the hyper-v drivers are officially supported by Microsoft.
  Its obviously a contribution made for selfish reasons (Linux support is essential if you want your hypervisor to be competetive today and having drivers in the mainline kernel is almost a requirement) but the same can be said for pretty much all corporate contributions to the Linux kernel and quite a few individual contributions aswell.
  I can't think of a single company that has made contributions to the kernel in an area that didn't benefit their main business.
Re:Community Myth ;-/ by murdocj · 2011-07-16 15:03 · Score: 0

Irridiculous!
Glue TIME. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 15:45 · Score: -1

seriously do you understand what free means?
1. Re:Glue TIME. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 18:59 · Score: 0
  
  He does. You don't.
What about the importance of the commits? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 15:58 · Score: 0

Or is the commit count the ruler you're using to see who gets to pork the cheerleader?
1. Re:What about the importance of the commits? by Hal_Porter · 2011-07-17 18:05 · Score: 1
  
  Like the cheerleader would touch anyone who knew what a 'commit count' was.
  
  --
  echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
K-LOCs by Locutus · 2011-07-16 16:09 · Score: 0

didn't you know that Steve Ballmer is a big fan of K-LOCs and wants to see Microsoft's K-LOC count stay high, even in Linux? lol

LoB

--
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Um -- look out... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 16:40 · Score: 0

Can't help but notice that the rest of Microsoft is just 18 changes, making this guy quite the splitter. Either good for him, or he'd better be careful - company culture and all. Either way, there are people carefully reviewing all his changes, yes?
Re:Community Myth ;-/ by robbyb20 · 2011-07-16 17:26 · Score: 0

if youre adding the n't to couldnt, why cant we just keep it the same way?
343 by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 17:56 · Score: 0

With that number, I am surprised they did not make a halo reference.
Porting clippy takes a lot of effort by phonewebcam · 2011-07-16 18:58 · Score: 0

"Hi! I noticed you're trying to schedule your kernel processes using a constant time algorithm. Would you like some help with that?"
He also got flamed on LKML by inode_buddha · 2011-07-16 19:01 · Score: 1

He also got flamed on LKML for it, I saw it the other day. Interestingly, nobody seemed to care who he works for. His coding style seems OK in general. Problem is, he sent 117 patches in the form of 117 emails, *in a single day* thereby denying sufficient time for review and comment. They weren't real happy about that.

--
C|N>K
1. Re:He also got flamed on LKML by multipartmixed · 2011-07-17 05:47 · Score: 1
  
  > Problem is, he sent 117 patches in the form of 117 emails,
  Seriously?! I would have told him to fuck off and submit a single patch with the bug tracker.
  I'm assuming git can do ~ "hg diff" and lkml has some kind of bug tracker? Or are they still in comp.sources.* mode?
  
  --
  
  Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
2. Re:He also got flamed on LKML by inode_buddha · 2011-07-20 02:14 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, it can do diff -- in fact that's how its usually done. And yeah there are bug-trackers and bots for this kind of thing. Most notably at kernel janitors.org.
  Thing is, a single huge post isn't gonna fly real good either. The usual accepted way is to announce that you got something big and you split it out into "X" number of modules. Then post no more than (generally) 15 at a time.
  
  --
  C|N>K
misleading headline is misleading by smash · 2011-07-16 20:15 · Score: 1

If you RFTA, you'll note that there were a large number of patches due to the staged nature of many coding style cleanups. Functionality wise, the patches submitted were minimal. As to the method of sending in that many patches for that amount of change... pros and cons either way. On the one hand, doing it one patch at a time probably makes it easier to see what is going on and track breakage if it were to occur. On the other hand, there's a large number of patches to apply.

--
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
1. Re:misleading headline is misleading by St.Creed · 2011-07-17 06:43 · Score: 1
  
  If I do database changes I try to split it up into different files for each step as well, since a semi-technical person at my customer has to run them. With each step split up, they can run a file, and if the output doesn't match the expected output, they can stop and I know exactly what state the resulting system is in.
  So maybe this guy just chose security over convenience. I know, unexpected. But still a valid choice, right? :)
  
  --
  Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
Re:Community Myth ;-/ by raddude99 · 2011-07-16 20:36 · Score: 0

You forgot the apostrophe in you're.
Fight for rational behaviour by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 21:18 · Score: 0

Microsoft is a business. A company. That means it is not an individual with feelings and personal views. When you attack Microsoft for being Microsoft, then what you are really doing is attack the employees that chooses to work there. These people might not be anti-FOSS in any way. They might be really good developers and some of them might. Not all cities have a large free software company that can always hire and people do need to use their skills and pay their bills. When you attack Microsoft in irrational ways, you might end up forcing these competent people away from us instead of inviting them to join our communities. That is a very bad thing. If you promote free software without irrational attacks on Microsoft, then their employees might take their skills to us at some point in time. That would be a very good thing.
That is not to say we shouldn't criticize Microsofts decisions. When they choose to do harmful things to the community, then it should be criticized loudly. But when they contribute to the kernel -- obviously for their own benefit like everyone else -- it is a good thing and the discussions should not be spammed with other issues. The main idea is to provide negative feedback for negative decisions and positive feedback for positive contributions. Perhaps it would be easier for Microsoft to do the right thing if that meant good press. If the price is right, then Microsoft might be willing to change some of the things we don't like about it. And then rational people, both internal and external to Microsoft, will be able to say it's a good thing that Microsoft has started to learn from free software.
In some areas we have far surpassed Microsoft long ago. In other areas, like the desktop, we're rapidly catching up and may soon be as good as Windows and OS X. We need to calm down. Microsoft is not an evil empire. It's just one of our many competitors. Do you see how that changes the message? Fight for free software, not against proprietary software and don't make extremist claims against Microsoft. It helps them and hurts us.
1. Re:Fight for rational behaviour by maxwell+demon · 2011-07-16 22:23 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft is a business. A company. That means it is not an individual with feelings and personal views. When you attack Microsoft for being Microsoft, then what you are really doing is attack the employees that chooses to work there.
  No, you are attacking the C*Os who make the decisions there.
  
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  The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
has nothing to do with the patches in question by gl4ss · 2011-07-16 21:29 · Score: 1

it's server iron side where these patches matter. and if they contributed the patented stuff, they'd have contributed it..

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world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
343 by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 21:30 · Score: 0

is the 343 supposed to be a halo reference?
Discovery from epSos.de by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 22:25 · Score: 0

He is not Microsoft, but a Linux guy who works for them, because they pay.
What was a working on? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-16 23:04 · Score: 0

An Alt-Ctrl-Del handler?
Re:Community Myth ;-/ by Courageous · 2011-07-16 23:40 · Score: 1, Offtopic

While I agree with you, were you being deliberately ironic in using the word "irregardless" in a subthread introduced by a grammar nazi? "Regardless" or "irrespective" are the words to use, or Thou Shalt Be Disciplined(tm).
Anyway, IRL, when people say "could care less," I often retort, with a wry smile on my face:
"Well, I've had so much of the caring sucked out of me, there's no possibility of me caring any less at all."
I think people get it then, but I'm not really sure.
It gets a laugh, anyway.
BTW, if you want to pet peeve over something try "talking out loud". You know, when someone means to say "thinking out loud".
C//
Re:Community Myth ;-/ by BrokenHalo · 2011-07-17 00:22 · Score: 0

I couldn't care more, about that.
If you don't know what the comma is for, then it is usually better to leave it out altogether.

But (to continue this digression), I wish some people would get over this fallacy that it is perfectly OK to mangle the language in any way they please, then speciously attempt to justify this by calling it "evolution according to common usage". Obviously, the language can only evolve according to customary usages that change over time, but to use the phrases "couldn't care less" and "could care less" to mean the same thing is plainly nonsensical, and reflects poorly on the writer's cognitive skills.
Can you recompile the kernel without that MS junk? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 00:50 · Score: 0

Windows hypervisor? Really?
I don't want anything MS related in anyway in my Linux kernel: with such low-level kernel stuff dealing with hypervisor etc. I wouldn't be surprised if that dev did introduce gigantic security hole in a true MS fashion.
Can I recompile the Linux kernel without incorporating this MS hypervisor bloat?
361 Microsoft patented algorithms then... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 01:04 · Score: 0

What else would Microsoft be adding?
Re:Community Myth ;-/ by leenks · 2011-07-17 01:08 · Score: 0

If you don't know what the comma is for, then it is usually better to leave it out altogether.
But (to continue this digression), I wish some people would get over this fallacy that it is perfectly OK to mangle the language in any way they please, then speciously attempt to justify this by calling it "evolution according to common usage". Obviously, the language can only evolve according to customary usages that change over time, but to use the phrases "couldn't care less" and "could care less" to mean the same thing is plainly nonsensical, and reflects poorly on the writer's cognitive skills.
Is that why you abused the comma at least twice in your reply?
Fortunately, while punctuational pedantry is alive and well, the English language is fairly robust against the incorrect use of punctuation. However, I agree that interchanging "couldn't care less" and "could care less", a grammar mistake that completely changes the meaning of the phrase, is a horrible abuse of the language.
Re:Pedants unite! by hoboroadie · 2011-07-17 01:53 · Score: 1

... and can't.

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They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
Dear David Wheeler... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 02:50 · Score: 0

Dear David Wheeler,
you're blogging about and linking to an LWN article that will not be viewable without a paid LWN subscription for another while. Given that you are apparently a subscriber to LWN, please, use the SubscriberLink feature to allow non-subscribers to view the article as well.
Pay-walled gardens suck, even when they're centered on Linux. We all recognize that LWN has a need to survive and fund its operations, but do keep in mind that this sort of situation is exactly why the SubscriberLink feature exists in the first place.
Love,
Slashdot
thank you sir may i have another by decora · 2011-07-17 04:18 · Score: 1

i personally agree with you.
microsoft's strategy to use software patents to eliminate linux and throw linux programmers in jail and/or bankruptcy is, well, i mean, we should be happy about that.
we deserve it.
we are slime. we are filth.
please sir, may we have another?
KY by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 06:31 · Score: 0

Looks like he was recently a Novell employee (if not still)
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/ky-srinivasan/3/b5a/590
Microsoft booster quick to react by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 08:10 · Score: 0

Obviously it isn't a good thing to have anyone who works for Microsoft (and most people who worked for Novell) touching Linux. They are on the wrong side and can't be trusted
I get a bit sick and tired of the undercover Microsofties on Slashdot pretending that they love Linux while defending every trick and tactic deployed by Microsoft to undermine it.
shutdown -p defending Microsoft!!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 08:29 · Score: 0

Who would'a thunk it.
i thought by bball99 · 2011-07-17 09:19 · Score: 0

something smelled in the latest kernel
inviting MSFT to a software conference is like inviting a pedophile to a day-care center...
Re:Community Myth ;-/ by jersey_emt · 2011-07-17 10:26 · Score: 1

Irrediculous!

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My spoon is too big.
Re:Community Myth ;-/ by euroq · 2011-07-17 10:38 · Score: 1

comulent
Nope, cromulent. :)

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Just because the U.S. is a republic does not mean it is not a democracy. Democracy/republic are not mutually exclusive.
MS VM inside Linux Kernel? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 11:26 · Score: 0

No thanks! There is a very good reason why I run Linux in the first place.
Embrace. Extend... by brilliant-mistake · 2011-07-17 15:56 · Score: 1

Extinguish.
And you know what they say... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 16:37 · Score: 0

More codes means mode bugs...
An IBM manager? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 17:38 · Score: 0

No doubt you think developers should be paid according to the number of lines of code they write? The more the better?
If you evaluate a developers productivity or usefulness merely by the number of commits (which is closer to what is being talked about here) then you are going to be in for a rude surprise if you ever got to manage anything.
Statics can prove anything by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 18:26 · Score: 0

Statics can prove anything,
BS
Who knows by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-17 21:53 · Score: 0

But I think the guy went for it.
Re:Community Myth ;-/ by Dog-Cow · 2011-07-18 02:29 · Score: 1

Valid. Invalid.
Flammable. Inflammable.
Deal with it.
# of code enhancements by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-18 16:39 · Score: 0

There goes my estimation of LINUX. MS has to have the worst coders in the world. Frankly if I was LINUX I would do a back ground on any contributers and reject anything that even had a fient whiff of MS.