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Microsoft Developer Made the Most Changes To Linux 3.0 Code
sfcrazy sends this quote from the H:
"The 343 changes made by Microsoft developer K. Y. Srinivasan put him at the top of a list, created by LWN.net, of developers who made the most changes in the current development cycle for Linux 3.0. Along with a number of other 'change sets,' Microsoft provided a total of 361 changes, putting it in seventh place on the list of companies and groups that contributed code to the Linux kernel. By comparison, independent developers provided 1,085 change sets to Linux 3.0, while Red Hat provided 1,000 and Intel 839."
... it really is useless trivia. What's more important is what the contributions are, specifically. Per TFA:
This work by Microsoft was to clean up the “Microsoft Hyper-V (HV) driver” so that the Microsoft driver would be included in the mainline Linux kernel. Microsoft originally submitted this set of code changes back in July 2009, but there were a lot of problems with it, and the Linux kernel developers insisted that it be fixed. The Linux community had a long list of issues with Microsoft’s code, but the good news is that Microsoft worked to improve the quality of its code so that it could be accepted into the Linux kernel. Other developers helped Microsoft get their code up to par, too. ( Steve Friedl has some comments about its early technical issues.
and why:
Getting code into the mainline Linux kernel release, instead of just existing as a separate patch, is vitally important for an organization if they want people to use their software (if it needs to be part of the Linux kernel, as this did). A counter-example is that the Xen developers let KVM zoom ahead of them, because the Xen developers failed to set a high priority on getting full support for Xen into the mainline Linux kernel. As Thorsten Leemhuis at The H says, “There are many indications that the Xen developers should have put more effort into merging Xen support into the official kernel earlier. After all, while Xen was giving developers and distribution users a hard time with the old kernel, a new virtualisation star was rising on the open source horizon: KVM (Kernel-based Virtual Machine) In the beginning, KVM could not touch the functional scope and speed of Xen. But soon, open source developers, Linux distributors, and companies such as AMD, Intel and IBM became interested in KVM and contributed a number of improvements, so that KVM quickly caught up and even moved past Xen in some respects.” Xen may do well in the future, but this is still a cautionary tale.
I wish people would get over this myth that "could care less" means that you couldn't care less.
Insert your own flamebait joke here.
Wait, did I say "insert"? D'oh!
In LWN.net's evaluation of the number of lines of code changed, Srinivasan and Microsoft are therefore nearer the bottom of the list. LWN.net found that Microsoft developers changed 11,564 lines of code (1.3 per cent) – compared to Intel's 163,232 (18.1 per cent).
Little changes are good, but simple count of changes isn't necessarily a good measure of work done. Lines of Code, while itself not a perfect measure, is better than simply Number of Commits.
He has only been part of Microsoft since february 2011. Until then, he was part of Novel.
So the amazement here is that MS can submit deltas, in much the same way that monkey can take a picture. Last time I checked MS was a software development firm, and did work with linux. It makes sense that they would in fact try to modify the kernel to meet their needs, which may be different than others. In any case they seem to contribute a factor of 3 less than other major players.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Perhaps they couldn't care less (note the correct usage), what does that matter? So long as they contribute valid code, in compliance with licensing, that addresses a need, I don't care *who* contributes. Hell: Hans, from his jail cell, can contribute, for all of me. If it makes Linux better, and it's not some patent landmine, IJustDon'tGiveADamn.
As for user-driven innovation, yes, it is. For two reasons:
- Solo users still do contribute. Check the numbers.
- Solo users who manage to work for large companies does not mean they still don't adhere to the spirit.
So neener.
Indeed, as we all know, Apple doesn't release any free software...
Circumcision is child abuse.
He's got it right...
Except for the Google part. They are going to sell your testicles to the CIA for nothing, while making it look like giving you a free service.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Linux is still "a community effort of users putting their minds together". There may have been a shift from the community made up mostly of individuals to corporations but it is still, a community.
Does it matter if a contributor is an individual, an individual contributing on behalf of a company or company contributing as long as the code is of good quality, is offered in ways that agrees with the norms of the community and does not violate any license used by the community? Microsoft is contributing code because they are either using linux or they have people they are supporting who are using it hence they are part of the community effort. It doesnt matter how little any individual or company cares about the GPL, all it matters is that they conduct themselves in a way that does not violate it.
HTC, Samsung, LG and probably some others pay Linux royalties to Microsoft for their Android based phones. Actually MS makes more money from Android (Linux) then what they generate from Windows Phone 7 now. It would make sense to embed the whole Microsoft patent portfolio there to cement their rule over Linux.
The intent is probably paving the way for some demonspawn child they want to have with Novell. Treating this like Microsoft is trying to make Linux a more attractive alternative to their competing product line is incredibly disingenuous. That said, it's free code so it doesn't really matter what the intent is. It just means we may soon have a new feature in OpenSUSE that I'm not going to use.
Irregardless, "could care less" is incorrect because it's logically flawed.
Irregardless ...
I hope that was a joke!
A host is a host from coast to coast...
Unless it's down, or slow, or fails to POST!
Your argument might have more merit if you were complaining that they don't contribute to the projects they use themselves (which, apart from WebKit, is probably a slam dunk argument, but I don't know offhand). Complaining that Apple doesn't contribute to Linux is like complaining that Google doesn't contribute to Gecko.
Contributions to Linux take many forms. Code-centric people only view contributions to the Linux kernel as contributions to Linux. Far more aware people, take contributions to Linux being amongst the following,
contributions to GNU (something you obviously need to look up),
contributions to Linux compatible hardware drivers,
contributions to Linux documentation,
contributions to Linux based graphical users interfaces,
contributions to Linux compatible applications,
contributions to graphics design including icons, appearance, fonts, screens savers, layouts,
contributions to marketing and promotion,
contributions to Linux protecting patents,
contributions to service and support,
contributions to the Linuc user community,
and of course contributions to Linux based distribution without which Linux would not exist as an operating system rather than just a kernel.
Seriously only a real asshat would take all those contributions and treat them as nothing either that or a microtroll. It amazes me that after all these years how people still fail to understand how a community developed product like Linux comes into being, how all contributions small and large are highly regarded (the value being in the sharing) and how contributions of individuals are valued (even those employed by M$, M$ did you create code, those people employed by M$ did).
From your selfish self centred viewpoint, it appears that I must apologise for using Linux whilst not being a good enough coder to contribute to the kernel. So "I am sorry", my coding sucks and my others contributions to Linux are not good enough to appease you. Of course to the rest of the Linux community I say thank you for all the contributions made no matter how great or small.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Microsoft contributed stuff so their code would work.
Does it make "linux" better? No.
Does it allow THEIR code to work? Yes.
So interoperability is bad? Thats pretty fucking funny considering the number of fanboys such as yourself that shout that MS goes out of its way to break interoperability.
Would better interop not make Linux better? Seems rather illogical to say that Linux working better with Windows is a bad thing, since that is what you're saying I'm going to have to assume one of us is as retarded as Corky from Life Goes On, and its not me.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
So you're saying the people who review kernel patches are so shitty they couldn't spot any of the things you're referring too?
You do realize you're insulting your own team more than the other team right, you're just too stupid to realize ... oh ... never mind.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Yes, it does. How Linux not doing stuff people want to do is good again? Should all the people that use the module fully change to Windows instead?
Rethinking email
Microsoft has a reason, it's called Hyper-V. Microsoft wants companies to use Hyper-V instead of VMWare and other virtualization platforms, and for that to work, even if Microsoft detests it, they need to support Linux as a virtualized guest.
What? 'Irregardless' is a perfectly comulent word.
Does it make "linux" better? No.
The code gives people more choices. For those already using Hyper-V, it gives them a choice of using Linux on their VMs instead of Windows. For those already using Linux, it gives them a choice of using Hyper-V to host their VMs instead of KVM, VMware or other solutions. Are you saying that choice is not good?
Linux is still "a community effort of users putting their minds together". There may have been a shift from the community made up mostly of individuals to corporations but it is still, a community. Does it matter if a contributor is an individual, an individual contributing on behalf of a company or company contributing as long as the code is of good quality, is offered in ways that agrees with the norms of the community and does not violate any license used by the community? Microsoft is contributing code because they are either using linux or they have people they are supporting who are using it hence they are part of the community effort. It doesnt matter how little any individual or company cares about the GPL, all it matters is that they conduct themselves in a way that does not violate it.
I will tell you what really makes me personally feel like I am participating in a community. For most Open Source software I have used, if I have a question or a suggestion or simply some feedback, I can usually communicate directly with the maintainer or lead developer of the project. They are accessible. They are fellow human beings, not corporate conglomerates. There are no layers of sales reps or receptionists or PR personnel. Sometimes I send an e-mail just to say "thank you" for the simple reason that they owe me absolutely nothing, yet I benefit from the work they have chosen to make freely available.
It would be like calling up Microsoft and speaking directly to Ballmer about Windows. No regular Microsoft customer is ever going to do that. That's the difference between a community and a conglomerate. That, and with most Linux distributions users help each other as much as (if not more than) organizations provide formal support.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
You should really wait for more comments before pronouncing summary judgement over /. audience. First posts are more often than not emotionally driven, and there is little rational substance there, hence they tend toward groupthink. That, and mods didn't have a good pass yet - once they do, most early AC comments end up at -1, the more interesting stuff bubbles up, and then you see some insightful discussion in follow-up posts.
my preference is FreeBSD, and never once have I bitched about an MS contributed patch.
That's interesting - there was some code contributed to FreeBSD by Microsoft?
Except for the Google part. They are going to sell your testicles to the CIA for nothing, while making it look like giving you a free service.
That's still in closed beta - so I'd appreciate it if you could send me an invite.
#DeleteChrome
The code from ANYONE at Microsoft is venom ... and must be dead ... and must be deleated.
Neither Microsoft nor Apple can be trusted! They are both EVIL. KILL their CODE! ... Let their
bodies BURN.
A real good day will be when the bodies of Microsoft and Apple employees are burning in the streets.
-- //
Just a suggestion... cut back on the caffeine.
#DeleteChrome
No, it's called illiteracy.
I should note, that almost all of these posts so far are 1million UIDs or AC, so it probably really is teenage angst, but holy shit no wonder no one commercially supports Linux, you guys are just ungrateful fucks.
you must be new here
As long as they don't attempt to use their involvement with Linux to pull any sort of "oh, some of the code that was contributed was misappropriated from us, therefore we own X of Linux... no, we can't tell you which parts" at some point in the future, I don't really have a problem with MS contributing to my OS of choice.
The thing is though... they're Microsoft... and I wouldn't put it past them to try something like that someday. I can certainly hope that they don't... but it still gives one reason to not necessarily think that this is all perfectly okay.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
He's like a well oiled machine.
Then perhaps you could measure source lines of code after running the source code through a tool similar to GNU indent that applies agreed-upon standards for what goes on one line.
Token bullshit so fanbois like you can keep on repeating it.
Hahah. I have this image in my head of Steve Jobs ordering a new division of developers to write OSS tools in order to stir up fanboyism on Slashdot.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Oh man, such a clever and original burn.
If I could care less about something, it means I care to some measure already.
Admit it. You post strawman arguments as AC so you get modded Insightful for refuting them, rather than Troll
361 new buffer overflow possibilities, regressions and invalid assumptions.
Or perhaps submarine patent issues?
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
MS developer doesn't have to mean MS. Unless there is official support for working time responsibility.
Most Linux development comes from corporations who could care less about GPL or open source.
Technically, if most of the development comes from corporations. They certainly could care less, because they seem to "care" at least a bit to develop for Linux. Perhaps, It doesn't mean what you want it to mean. But doesn't sound completely incoherent in this context.
FOR THOSE USING WINDOWS, they can _also_ run Linux.
If they ran Linux they could host whatever they want. THAT'S why Microsoft did this. VMware Server is free, and it runs on Linux or Windows, and it hosts EVERYTHING.
That's cool. Hyper-V Server is also free, and does not require any OS to run (VMware also has a similar product - ESX). You don't need to run Windows.
Though I find it interesting that you object to running Linux in one proprietary piece of software (Hyper-V), but not the other (VMware). I'd understand your perspective it it was, at least, a matter of FOSS purity - but then you should, at least, argue for KVM or Xen.
This does not enhance Linux nor the experience of anyone who uses it.
It does enhance everyone's Linux experience if there are more Linux machines out there, don't you agree? If some previously Microsoft-only shop can now run e.g. LAMP instances on their Hyper-V servers, that's one more customer software and other companies would consider.
I think maybe I was unclear... so I'll try and repair that.
Hyper-V does require an OS to run...hyper-v. It sucks because it's limited.
VMware's ESXi server also requires an OS... vmware ESXi. It happens this one is based on a linux kernel.
If people want to run Linux, and they choose to run it on Hyper-V their experience is limited. Microsoft has fixed some of their software's shortcomings... but Hyper-v is still limited.
I know you're trying to imply neither product needs an OS. This is not true. Both products are built into an OS. The Linux product (VMware ESXi) does not require 361 Microsoft patches to work.
E
Are you seriously that ignorant or trying to be funny?
I'm genuinely curious; I guess it would fall under "ignorant" then.
(check my /. bio, by the way)
Would you like specific contributions to FreeBSD kernel/userland, or is the fact that they released the CLR (see: rotor) for FreeBSD enough?
I know very well about Rotor, though it hasn't been updated for ages (last release was in 2006), and even that version was XP-only - it was only the first one which ran on FreeBSD. It was mainly meant as a research project first and foremost - code to study to know how ECMA CLI spec can be efficiently implemented. That's why its license was "shared source", not FOSS, meaning no derivative works. As Mono matured, it took over that niche, so today Rotor is mainly interesting for those who want to know how Microsoft .NET in particular works (since it shares a lot of code with Rotor, or at least did back in the day) - implementation details and their performance implications etc.
However, to the best of my knowledge, Rotor is not a part of FreeBSD userland, merely a third-party software package (is it even in ports, by the way?). I may have misinterpreted you, but I thought you were talking about contributions to FreeBSD project directly - the base system or the kernel. I'm not aware of such, but then I haven't been looking. Still, it would be interesting to know if there indeed are any.
Your argument seems to be boiling down to "VMware is just better, therefore no other choices are needed" - though I haven't seen you give any specific reasons why one is better than the other.
I wouldn't be surprised if VMware is a better choice in many cases - if nothing else, it's an older, more mature technology - but have you considered that your judgement on that matter may be subjective, and letting others decide which software, or combination of software, is better for them, is not such an offensive idea?
yeah, i feel the same way about people who use the wrong "its".
Does that include the authors of the US Constitution? Article I, Section 10, Paragraph 2: http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution.html
And yes, the apostrophe is in the original.
to be fair, we're talking about the scribe and not the founding fathers themselves.
and so, as for Jacob Shallus... well, he didn't have a backspace key but nevertheless, yes, i look back upon him disfavorably.
"They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
Isn't most of the open-source software that Apple uses derived from BSD? If you don't like Apple's use of it, complain to the BSD people to change their license (good luck with that).
So let me get this straight:
Microsoft is BAD for releasing Linux drivers
VMware is GOOD for releasing Linux drivers
It's OK to run Windows from within Linux, but not the other way around?
I fail to see what your argument is.
Does improvements in Hyper-V drivers make Linux better? Yes
Does it benefit those who don't use Hyper-V? Yes, indirectly by increasing the user base, thus providing more incentive for others to release software for Linux.
Does it benefit existing Microsoft customers the most? Yes (but why is that a problem?)
---- Sig. gone.
Darn, And I thought the Founding Fathers launched a preemptive strike against Nazism (grammar and otherwise).
Do you feel the same the same way about people who don't capitalize "I"?
This has nothing to do with windows, it's drivers for running Linux better in Hyper-V.
Despite what you might think, Hyper-V != Windows.
Unless you're a VMware employee, I fail to see why you'd want to exclude Linux from working in Hyper-V.
You want windows? Go use windows.
You want linux? Use linux.
This I just don't understand. Are you saying that if you have an existing Windows server infrastructure, you should be prevented from using Linux servers when that's more suitable?
Getting approval for putting a Linux server as a guest on your existing virtualized infrastructure (pitch as a virtual appliance if necessary) is usually way easier that getting approval for changing your whole IT infrastructure (changing hypervisor or using two different ones).
---- Sig. gone.
if you're referring to my posts (and even if you're not), i intentionally adopted a mostly-uncapitalized style to reflect my perception that online discussion is a (novel) compromise between formal writing and spoken language. i still usually capitalize proper names only out of respect for others.
apart from this, you may also note that the capitalization of i is anomalous among nominative pronouns. afaik, there is no universally-accepted explanation for this, but i find the explanations put forth* to be either obsolete or personally unacceptable.
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_(pronoun)
"They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
Not really, say you run ten services, all virtual in their own instance to minimize downtime and provide redundancy 4 use windows specific programs, the the rest will run on Linux. You use a windows host to make sure nothing freaky happens. Having drivers int the kernel to support any quirks of hyper-V and improve performance is still going to help you, without flooding the server room with physical machines, and without adding substantial maintenance costs. Or say a company is all windows, has some virtualization, but want's to add a service that runs better in Linux. Then it becomes very easy to just install and instance of CentOS or Redhat (depending on management and local expertise) and get the service running. No need for new hardware, the kernel just integrates into what you already have setup. That's the point of the Linux kernel really, to be able to deploy or integrate it wherever you want. There really is meaning to the term office politics. You most often won't get what you want, unless or until you find a way the minimally disrupts the work other people are already doing.
1) Hyper-V has worked fine with Linux hosts for a long time, this is just a code cleanup and bug fix for existing Hyper-V specific drivers in the kernel.
2) VMWare also needs guest drivers to get Linux to run as it should. These are not part of the Linux kernel. VMware releases their drivers separably, but you still need them to make full use of the server.
Microsoft decided it would be easier for their users if they got their drivers included in the kernel. More work for Microsoft and the kernel maintainers, less work for the users.
---- Sig. gone.
What about the people who don't respond in horror but just plain damn think the OP wasn't funny?
FC Closer
I don't like MS as much as the next guy
No, you don't.
, but [...]
and then you go on proving it.
the retarded little world of idiotic artificial restrictions placed on kernel code just to appease a bunch of GPL zealots
Really, now. Since when was having a rigid API and coding standards a bad thing? Do you want to go back to the "anything goes" days and bad drivers causing panics or worse (undetected errors)? I am quite happy that Linux has tightened up the ship, and tossed out lots of bad code. There's more work to be done there, but it's well underway and things are better for it!
make it easier for you little puds to run Linux under the MS hypervisor
Sorry, but us "ignorant anti-microsoft" guys don't run MS Hyper-V. Why would we, when there are so many others to choose from? With Hyper-V, your first installed OS has to be Windows Server 2008, and you can't configure it without a Windows GUI. That goes against everything that "free" stands for, both as in freedom and as in beer.
Even (since we toss insults around) spit-licking apologists like yourself surely must see that this is a piss-poor way of running Linux?
Should all the people that use the module fully change to Windows instead?
Is this a trick question? Surely you're aware that in order to run Microsoft Hyper-V, you must have Windows 2008 Server as the primary OS under the Hyper-V, and run a Windows desktop to be able to configure the hypervisor. So anyone using the module are already fully Windows; no change needed.
Contrast this with other commercial hypervisors like Xen and VMware, and you'll find that those are far less Windows-centric and lets users embrace both Linux and Windows, and switch either way if they so want.
And then I, as lead (and often only) developer for several FOSS projects, get an email with a question, suggestion or bug report to my personal email. When I reply with "please use the mailing list", people like you, who, to them, "community" means that the lead developer needs to answer their questions directly, complain, get upset, and sometimes get downright rude.
As a lead developer, I want a community to form. This means that I want to give all people in the community a chance to answer your question, not only myself personally.
Shachar
Things that use ASP or .net, or silverlight, or the exhange protocol, or ...
Improve performance vs. having reverse engineered drivers that throw random errors.
Adding one extra virtual machine to an already existing solution is cheaper then hireing or training a guy for a different one and finding, locating and installing software for it. Hell of a lot easier to get it past management as well.
And ya, I work for M$ just because I can think of one instance where one of their specific products could be useful to someone. Really if that's all I needed to do to get a job at M$, that would be a cushy life, let me tell you, far easier than any actual job I've ever had.
Saying one thing and meaning it's exact opposite is not an evolution of an "idiom" - it's just idiocy.
Unless you're telling me that in 300 years "4" might actually mean "27" or something along those lines?
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Re-read what he said. They "could care less" - meaning they care to an extent already.
Now, that's probably not what the fool meant, but the fool wrote the opposite instead. Pity him.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
In the end, sorry, in the USofA the only thing that counts is who has the better lawyers.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Excuse me?
C|N>K
If you're working for almost any large corporation you probably have Windows workstations and the easiest way to manage a large number of them is with Active Directory. They probably also will connect to Windows servers for shared file storage and printing, and they may even use other popular Microsoft products like Exchange and SharePoint.
In this environment Windows is the standard and it is the Linux box which is the outcast and cannot interoperate fully with the rest of the corporate network.
Don't try and spin any FUD here about corporations not using Microsoft either...I have worked for companies like IBM, who is a big time Linux supporter and has equivellent offerings for almost every line of corporate software Microsoft offers. You know what? They were running Windows workstations and had Windows servers for situations where they were simply the better solution.
If you really have any understanding of servers you would know the strengths and weaknesses of both Windows and Linux server implementations and be able to plan accordingly.
The clash of honour calls, to stand when others fall.
He also got flamed on LKML for it, I saw it the other day. Interestingly, nobody seemed to care who he works for. His coding style seems OK in general. Problem is, he sent 117 patches in the form of 117 emails, *in a single day* thereby denying sufficient time for review and comment. They weren't real happy about that.
C|N>K
Interoperability for MS is a short term goal..
When IE was new and competing with netscape, they worked to make it interoperable with netscape...
Once netscape was gone, that flew out of the window and they tried to maintain lock-in.
Now that firefox and chrome have become popular, ie is now trying to interoperate again.
The same can be said of msoffice, when they faced serious competition they supported opening wordperfect files and had a relatively open rtf spec, once the competition was overcome they turn the screws of lockin again.
I predict the same will happen with hyper-v if they get the chance... If vmware, xen and kvm fall by the wayside then it wont be long before hyper-v only runs windows, the linux support will stagnate and new versions of hyper-v will come out which aren't compatible with it.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Actually, current versions of VMware require windows machines for the management infrastructure, it was only older versions (esx 2.x and earlier) which came with a linux client.
This is the reason i stopped using vmware, and migrated all my machines to kvm.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Interestingly, windows boots a lot faster inside of a vm running on linux than it does on the hative hardware (seriously, give it a try)...
If going the other way round, linux runs somewhat slower inside of a vm running on windows... The performance penalty when running in a vm on linux is much smaller.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
If you RFTA, you'll note that there were a large number of patches due to the staged nature of many coding style cleanups. Functionality wise, the patches submitted were minimal. As to the method of sending in that many patches for that amount of change... pros and cons either way. On the one hand, doing it one patch at a time probably makes it easier to see what is going on and track breakage if it were to occur. On the other hand, there's a large number of patches to apply.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
"Its not like they can sneak something in". Hi, Nokia here - you called?
it's server iron side where these patches matter. and if they contributed the patented stuff, they'd have contributed it..
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Than and then are completely different words.
Contrary to what many ill- and semi-literates seem to think, these are not homonyms. We spell them differently for a reason.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
No, you are attacking the C*Os who make the decisions there.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
No-one supports Linux commercially? When did that happen?
Have those companies REPLACED the code contributions of individuals or have companies simply provided MORE code than before?
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
I agree that these emails can get overwhelming, depending on popularity of the project, but a lot of the bigger projects (or the more arrogant dev-teams) can be very hard to contact.
I once found some very obvious bugs in an open source project (ISO8601 time using locale-specific time separators). The fix was just two minor changes in two lines of code. I tried contacting the developers several times over the course of two years and yet the bug remained in there all the time. It was only "fixed" when they did a complete rewrite.
With other projects I could just log into an IRC channel or use a bugtracker, but some Open Source projects make it very difficult to contribute anything as an outsider. If somebody wants to alert the developers to a typo in some translation, you don't want them to have to spend more than a few minutes to do so. If somebody noticed a bug and fixed it too, that person should be able to get that code to the developers without hurdles. If it becomes easier to just fork code than contribute patches, you're on a downward spiral.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
While I agree with you, were you being deliberately ironic in using the word "irregardless" in a subthread introduced by a grammar nazi? "Regardless" or "irrespective" are the words to use, or Thou Shalt Be Disciplined(tm).
Anyway, IRL, when people say "could care less," I often retort, with a wry smile on my face:
"Well, I've had so much of the caring sucked out of me, there's no possibility of me caring any less at all."
I think people get it then, but I'm not really sure.
It gets a laugh, anyway.
BTW, if you want to pet peeve over something try "talking out loud". You know, when someone means to say "thinking out loud".
C//
A few Apple contributions to open source:
They've released a lot more, but these are the bits that come to mind that I use every day on non-Apple platforms. Perhaps you could list all of the open source contributions by Microsoft that you use on non-Microsoft platforms?
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
if you're referring to my posts (and even if you're not), i intentionally adopted a mostly-uncapitalized style to reflect my perception that online discussion is a (novel) compromise between formal writing and spoken language. i still usually capitalize proper names only out of respect for others.
I PREFER TO CAPITALIZE EVERYTHING, JUST TO BE SURE...
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
I ask that anyone contacting me about projects do so via the project's mailing. That list does require you to be subscribed in order to post. The reason for the former is that direct communications with me are, often, antithetic to "community". My projects are so popular that a community can be taken for granted. I also want the list's archives to log such activities.
I agree this makes participating slightly more troublesome, but I think it's fair to ask not to treat me as a private free support venue.
Shachar
maybe you should learn to read, M$ == 361, RH=1000 while independent developers are on 1085 this year.
That's when a fork usually comes about. Cause the original developer has gone incommunicado.
I wish I was joking about this, but the support for open source software that is freely provided is typically better than that provided by vendors of enterprise software. Not just "better because it's free", but actually better.
With major open source projects (like Subversion, Tortoise, Wordpress, CakePHP), I've never had a bug that wasn't resolved within a few hours. You hit a forum or Stack Overflow or whatever, post a question, and you have responses within hours. Often it's that I've missed something, or there's some workaround that someone else has discovered, but either way, the problem gets solved.
You're comparing Oxford vs Yale and Harvard. Regardless of which top computing company has the toughest hiring requirements, none of them are easy enough to allow the average bumbling idiot in (those that would make the mistakes described in the post you are referring to).
while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
To answer your question, no it probably does not matter as far as the end product goes. However, the original poster on this thread, though marked as troll, did have some basis for his tirade in that many people (still) see linux as an OS primarily developed by individuals/hackers/computer geeks and that is/has been generally been viewed as "cool" or a good thing. But as is apparent, much of the code these days is directly or indirectly corporate sponsored. Is this bad? Well some people may think so and they may even be right to think this could have a long term negative effect on the OS. The truth probably is somewhere in between as it is certainly helpful to have more people fixing bugs, improving performance and (hopefully) increasing hardware compatability. But never discount that those same corps. may have their own agenda which is divergent from the perceived "linux agenda".
Er.. no. Just because he is asking you to communicate through an approved "channel" does not mean he will not see it or perhaps respond to it. It is unrealistic to expect the lead on any project beyond the very small to respond to your direct mailings.
Also you and others seem not to understand that mailing lists/forums/etc developed for this purpose provide a repository available to all the developers (and users) and serves as a primary source audit trail. There is no accidental deletion, missorting or otherwise misplacing/deletion of your message. Depending on the sophistication of the project it can also allow direct assignment of the problem/bug/suggestion to the appropriate individual/team, for instance the use of bugzilla on the various mozilla projects.
No, don't be silly. "4" will eventually mean "5". Here, let me show you. We all know that 2+2=4. But, with inflation, everything is going up over time, so if we merely assume large values of 2, we will get 2+2=5. QED.
... and can't.
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
It's *always* better to have an archived email list or online support forum instead of one-to-one emails. It's a matter of leveraging your time. The same questions ("Will it work better if I plug it in?") are going to be asked over and over. Why reply to them over and over?
Also: IRC is the best venue for hand-holding support, not necessarily provided by a project's lead developer or necessarily by a developer at all. Sometimes a user is better able to steer a fellow user in the right direction, and IRC is great for this.
freenode and oftc are both great places to host your support channels.
And for users who expect free software developers to drop everything they're doing and provide instant, free, one-on-one tech support... suck my hairy white [Republican]. That is TOTALLY out of line. Don't even ask.
Unless "I could care less" is meant in a sarcastic tone. Sorry if everything in life isn't in line with some rigid formula or rule.
Hopefully, we're all over this now. Could we just put this all behind us and continue to bash the rest of the huge decline in literacy amongst modern youth?
do() || do_not();
I have seen a great number of posts where 'then' has been substituted for 'than'. What really surprises me is the writer is quite clearly of above average intelligence...
There are also a lot of idiots doing it too.
Hopefully unrelated, recall that just a couple of days ago someone substituted "women" for "woman" in the title of a Slashdot article submission. As I read down the comments to see how quickly someone would call it, I saw plenty of other phonetic substitutions, spelling and grammar problems in the posts that follow. Yet, nobody seemed to take note (or I suppose mention) the error in the title.
I used to think "at least the members of Slashdot will continue to be functionally literate, even if the rest of the web goes to shit." Unfortunately, in the last couple of years I've discovered I was wrong.
do() || do_not();
i personally agree with you.
microsoft's strategy to use software patents to eliminate linux and throw linux programmers in jail and/or bankruptcy is, well, i mean, we should be happy about that.
we deserve it.
we are slime. we are filth.
please sir, may we have another?
It's not a trick question. If people want the Linux module is because they are running Linux.
If they can't run Linux in a usefull way in their environment they will either stop using Linux or change their environment. But remember that those people are running Windows as a host OS, they aren't in there for technical reasons.
Rethinking email
Since I deal mainly with Linux servers (Red Hat) VMware has been more and more of a headache for me because of this dependence on Windows. Plus having our VMware stuff locked down also causes headaches. But I need test Linux VMs. Lately I'm using kvm A LOT and I really love it. It completely rocks.
-- If there's one thing i can't stand, it's intolerance!
You know Apple owns Microsoft, and just keep them around as a separate entity to keep antitrust lawsuits at bay.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
I do not think that word means what you think it means...
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
I wish people would get over this myth that just because a lot of people say something and think they know what it means that it makes sense.
It doesn't. It's a sign that the speaker is stupid. Insisting that it's OK is a sign that the speaker is meta-stupid.
--
make install -not war
No, with inflation 2+2=4 becomes 2.5+2.5=5 .
--
make install -not war
"This I just don't understand. Are you saying that if you have an existing Windows server infrastructure, you should be prevented from using Linux servers when that's more suitable?"
I do understand it. He is saying it doesn't benefit anyone except those who want to run Linux under Hyper-V on Windows. It does not improve the Linux kernel in any other way.
It also seems that he doesn't care about people who want to use Windows. Go use it. It doesn't benefit him that you can run Linux on Hyper-V. Frankly, I don't give a fuck either. I'm neither for, nor against it, as long as my compiler doesn't have to touch those code paths.
This certainly doesn't impress me. (Microsoft's "contributions" to the Linux kernel). People on the kernel mailing list who may or may not even contribute one line of code, may contribute more to the Linux kernel than this, in helping to get problems fixed. For example, the guy who does a git bisect to track down a commit that broke something is to be commended more than this. What he does may benefit all users.
Using statistics inappropriately is dishonesty.
Irrediculous!
My spoon is too big.
comulent
Nope, cromulent. :)
Just because the U.S. is a republic does not mean it is not a democracy. Democracy/republic are not mutually exclusive.
Right, let's just throw away the basic meanings of some of the simplest words in our language. Everything should be taken to mean the opposite of what is actually said, because that makes perfect sense. Thanks for your time in so clearly and concisely explaining how apparently wrong I am in being correct. Hey, I guess you're right, things can mean the opposite of their stated denotations.
I've only heard Americans say "could care less", before, and it may come as a shock to many of them, but they aren't the only nation that speaks "English". Funny word, that, "English". Wonder who speaks that language...
Admit it. You post strawman arguments as AC so you get modded Insightful for refuting them, rather than Troll
Now that Red Hat sells support for KVM with RHEL 6, it's what I will be going to too. Earlier Red Hat had Citrix Xen, which is really good, but has started lagging a bit behind, kernel-wise, so I understand the switch.
And the lagging behind is what I fear may happen with Hyper-X too -- with only the vendor supporting it, and no strong community base that keeps the drivers up to date, it's a real risk that they won't be updated often enough, just like Xen.
Is this a trick question? Surely you're aware that in order to run Microsoft Hyper-V, you must have Windows 2008 Server as the primary OS under the Hyper-V, and run a Windows desktop to be able to configure the hypervisor.
Or, be willing to visit a website and download Hyper-V Server for free. No Windows necessary. It uses Windows Server 2008 Core to host the hypervisor, but they give it to you for free. Same as ESX, really.
So anyone using the module are already fully Windows; no change needed.
Contrast this with other commercial hypervisors like Xen and VMware, and you'll find that those are far less Windows-centric and lets users embrace both Linux and Windows, and switch either way if they so want.
I think you'll find that's not correct at all. And VMware sucks by the way. vSphere Administrator seems to be Windows only (we use vSphere here) and just outright sucks. We can't even find out what server our VMs are running on (VMware figures you don't need to know, thanks to live migration).
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
Actually, your base OS can be Hyper-V Server, which is a complete, freely (as in beer) downloadable and usable Hyper-V implementation on a much trimmed down free (as in beer) Windows Server 2008 edition. And you can configure it from... itself.
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
That said, Windows seems to boot faster in a VM inside of Windows too. This is not so strange, the virtual hardware is probably a lot easier to detect and find drivers for than the full machine. I'm pretty sure that most programs run (slightly) slower after boot.
Seconded. And another geek/developer visited recently and noticed the same thing with no prompting. WinXP boots like the wind in Virtual Box....but not so great on identical hardware "native". Though I suppose it's not identical -- VB only shows a windows XP instance a nicely optimized fixed set of hardware, nothing for windows to search for new hardware on, unless you explicitly add something from a VB menu. I think this might be due to a difference in philosophies in setting up hardware in the first place. With say, Ubutntu 10.04, if it's there during install, it's nothing, it just works, but adding it later is a pain (not much, but some). Windows seems to check the entire universe at the drop of a hat (or any boot). That has to take time, and there's just nothing much to check in a simple virtual machine.
Why guess when you can know? Measure!
Unless that is an acronym for can't understand normal thinking, I suggest you not use it. It only makes you appear stupid.
Extinguish.
Did I say throw away the meaning? Show me where I said that. What I said was there is ABSOLUTELY NO POINT in having over 20 damned posts just rehashing that same damned grammar correction!
So you explain to me how EXACTLY having over 20 damned posts needlessly nitpicking over three fucking words helps anyone, or the flow of discussion, or anything at all? There are so damned many anal retentive asshole grammar nazis here now that the second one picks up on any mistake you might as well just change the rest of the thread to "LOL I farted!" because for all intents and purposes ( I was tempted to write all intensive purposes just to watch them trip over themselves correcting it, but they are still busy with wafting around the "Could /couldn't" fart last I checked) the discussion is OVER. That's it, nothing but 50 posts of "LOL I farted!".
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Like the cheerleader would touch anyone who knew what a 'commit count' was.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
I like "grammar nazi'ism" almost as much as I like "pendants". "Could care less" used to irritate me but now I just see it as the same sort of thing.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
I wish people would get over this myth of Linux being a community effort of users putting their minds together. (Score:1, Interesting)
I wish people would get over this myth that "could care less" means that you couldn't care less.(Score:4, Informative)
I wish people would get over the myth that mod points should be spent more on grammar nazi'ism than the topic at hand.(Score:1, Offtopic)
Slashdot, you have made my day.
Valid. Invalid.
Flammable. Inflammable.
Deal with it.
Three reasons M$ won't dare attack the kernel directly:
1.I
2.B
3.M
I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
What can IBM do about it if they don't know that code has been misappropriated until it's already in there and Microsoft tells them? If microsoft claims that code was misappropriately inserted into Linux that was proprietary, what can even a big company like IBM do about it? Challenge it in court? Sure... but unlike the situation with SCO, Microsoft has *VERY* deep pockets, and could actually hurt IBM if they were so inclined.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Bad? Good?
Microsoft company.
Google company.
Linux mix of communities, organizations and companies.
It's not exactly an easy comparison to make. Apples with fruit salad.
I am not devoid of humor.
And then I, as lead (and often only) developer for several FOSS projects, get an email with a question, suggestion or bug report to my personal email. When I reply with "please use the mailing list", people like you, who, to them, "community" means that the lead developer needs to answer their questions directly, complain, get upset, and sometimes get downright rude.
As a lead developer, I want a community to form. This means that I want to give all people in the community a chance to answer your question, not only myself personally.
Shachar
If I were careless and thoughtless about it, it would create the situation you bemoan. Hint: I don't e-mail project leads for technical support. I don't do that because I'm not an asshole.
I use support forums for support. Do you see how my post never said "e-mail" anywhere and instead used the much more generic word "communicate"? Well, I'm not careless with my diction and that was worded deliberately. Most of my direct communication with developers and project leads was initiated by their response to a forum or mailing list post of mine.
You could have asked "hey with no evidence from you, I took it upon myself to assume that when you said 'communicate' you meant you e-mailed them personally, is that correct?". Instead you noticed that, among other interpretations, it could be interpreted in terms of your pet peeve. So, full of righteous indignation, you ran with it. Much good discussion is ruined this way.
I'd rather people take a breath once in a while and ask themselves if their assumptions have any grounds whatsoever before they tell someone what "people like you" do and how annoying it is. I like that better than following every post with a long list of disclaimers that reactive people who wish to jump to conclusions will ignore anyway.
The point was, you can post in a Windows-related forum and you aren't going to see Ballmer chiming in. He may occasionally do that for million-dollar customers, but he hasn't the time for little people like me.
The few times I have dealt with developers, it was welcome by them and by me. It is unfortunate that you have had negative experiences but you paint with a rather broad brush.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
By that I meant when I want to make a donation, which is also a way to say thank you, but again not a support request. I wasn't going to mention the donation part but I see now that's the way to clarify this.
The bottom line is, I do something like that because it is my delight to give something back despite my modest means, not so I can impress anyone with "how generous I am" as though I do so for any reason except that I want to, so for that reason I can see how that one line was ambiguous. Still I think you're a bit frustrated and this has made you somewhat trigger-happy. In a way I can understand that. Dealing with the general public sucks and will remind you in a very in-your-face manner that the world is full of thoughtless, inconsiderate people.
I assure you, my spirit of gratitude and appreciation towards Open Source participants is not compatible with needlessly bothering them. That isn't how I show appreciation.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
May I remind you not just IBM has a vested interest in linux. Microsoft is big, but not that big.
I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.