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Share Links, Become Extradited To the US
castrox writes with an in-depth followup to a story we discussed in June:
"Sharing links online, particularly links to copyrighted material, may render you extradited to the United States of America. 'In May, American law enforcement officials opened up yet another front in this war by seeking the extradition of Richard O'Dwyer. The 23-year-old British college student is currently working on his BS in interactive media and animation. Until last year, he ran a "link site" that helped users find free movies and TV shows, many of them infringing. American officials want to try him on charges of criminal copyright infringement and conspiracy.' The case is unique because the site, which the accused Englishman ran, was not located in the US in any way. Does this set a new precedent of things to come? The agency responsible for the extradition request is Immigrations and Customs Enforcement."
If they ever demand extradition for sharing goatse links, I'd be on death row.
Trolling is a art,
I'd trust those **AA ****s to pay enough bribes to extradite people to international waters or Cuba, or any number of CIA black holes, to perform some 'fraternity pranks'.
ICE, ICE, Baby... They're almost as bad as that white guy pretending to be a rapper...
More tax dollars tossed to the trash to protect the interests of a few companies. And the guy was not even posting infringing content. This is getting so out of hand. Way to go, America!
First Cisco trying it from Canada, now the MPAA through Britain. An important thing to note through the article is that copyright laws exist in both countries - but that so far, it seems in Britain that link-sharing alone is not as damning as it is in the US. Mainly, it looks like TVShack was much more commercialized than Hotfile, and that's always something that results in a bigger hammer coming down the line. An important thing to note as well is the previous experience British judges have had with copyright litigation - I remember ACS Law and Crossley being torn into, as seen here (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/09/amounts-to-blackmail-inside-a-p2p-settlement-letter-factory.ars) Really, I don't think he's getting extradited. Britain is markedly hostile to US-style copyright infringement proceedings, and I doubt they failed to figure out where Crossley got his tactics from. Unless if they get someone to play rubber stamp and not examine the case, I'd lay my money on O'Dwyer staying right where he is.
"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
... to blow up the USA?
How does this work? if he broke the law in the UK, he should be tried in the UK. Under what grounds would extradition to the US make sense? he'd have to have committed a crime in US territory, and if the site wasn't there, and he wasn't there, then the answer to this seems pretty clear...
If you want to try him for a crime allegedly committed in the UK, try him in the UK, not the US. And if the UK laws don't allow you to try him in the UK because what he did wasn't a crime there, then too bad for you!
apparently that translates to linking to other folks work from your website
It all depends on who you can pay off to make a big stink. I remember the Penet remailer incident and Scientology. It was located in Finland but because they were posting Scientology material they soon had their doors busted down. If you're in the U.S. just pay off your congressman (which is an INSANE return on investment), have him to make an issue of it. Problem solved.
Scream it from the mountain tops since it can't even be wispered of in court.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
ICE's contention is that the site's use of an address within the .net TLD, administered by Verisign and within US jurisdiction, was the grounds on which their jurisdiction was established.
That seems an unnervingly broad criterion for establishing jurisdiction(if the the state tourism board of $PICTURESQE_TROPICAL_COUNTRY buys some ads from ClearChannel, urging people to book vacations, does ICE acquire jurisdiction over them?); but the immediate practical punchline seems to be to Stay. The. Fuck. Away. from American registrars if doing something that pisses off the feds.
I can see that using an American registrar would leave you open to having your domain name(which, effectively, is a 'property' that exists in the US as much as it is anything else) being seized; but leaving you open to extradition seems insane.
Fuck yea!
Is that our government has gone completely off the rails of common sense. But, if you lived here, you'd already know that.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
What is the difference between what he did and what google does?
Cue the knee-jerk reactions about Americans being fat, lazy, idiotic, power-tripping psychotics out to doom the world with their emprire...
As an American I am surprised by this move, but what's the worst that can happen, the British government says "no"?
Still, should have been using a .uk address, would have put it firmly outside of any possibility of American involvement.
There is a reason that the American politicians are unquestionably supportive of the entertainment cartels, regardless of fallout. They're just looking at the short-term ability to distract from and delay local societal instabilities from tipping over.
The MAFIAA is the largest circus producer they can support.
So why they dont sue google for share illegal link .... :)
Does that mean that if the guy is not extradited and if he ever steps on U.S. soil he is risking being arrested?
I'm Not Antisocial, I'm Just Not User Friendly
Extra judiciary domain seizures, extradition of foreign citizens for crimes not committed in the US... ICE (U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement) is either corrupt or completely out of control. They must be reigned in.
In the mean time, it's great that they have the situation at the Mexican border under control, gives them more time to be innovative in the war against piracy (keep going guys, you're so close to winning that one).
The fact that our law enforcement agencies are turning into the Hollywood SS is abominable. These corporate whoremongers have no ethics, no decency, and no shame. Once upon a time people such as these were pilloried for their crimes against the public good. I find it appalling that not only are our own lawmakers bending over for these cunts, but those of foreign countries are as well. Make no mistake, we are witnessing the beginning of the end of true liberty as the multinational corporations siphon more and more power and influence away from the governments of the world. And the saddest part of the whole thing is the people, you know, where the power actually lies, are just lying down and taking it. Rise up, you lazy, apathetic fuckers. Our entire world is being sold out from underneath us while you all just sit there getting fat and flipping channels. Sooner or later you're going to click on something and an hour later jackbooted, for-hire thugs are going to haul you off to copyright concentration camp. Hollywood has become the National Socialist Party and they see everyone who uses the internet as a dirty Jew.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall, re Voltaire
It is increasingly clear that America is becoming a Police State. Freedoms for which it was once the envy of the world are now being trampled by government enforcers at the behest of corporate interests. When George W. Bush was in office, critics were able to lay these excesses at his feet, but it is now clear that the rot is deeper than that. So what do you do when the World's Policeman is on the take?
Is that like finding a free bike parked outside, you just needed a pair of bolt cutters to take it?
If it's piracy, call it piracy. We can take it. Don't try to dance around it; having one thing obviously false makes the rest of what you're trying to say look suspect.
Seriously, in what way has the Obama Administration's approach to copyright enforcement been an improvement over the Bush Administration's? Give examples.
As this example shows, and think the Obama Administration has been objectively worse.
Makes perfect sense, make it so that half the population is lawyers and the other half is RIAA/MPAA/patent trolls. They can sell and consume each others services
All I have to do to take an all-expenses-paid vacation to the US is run a file-sharing website? Done!
Directly besides the "do you plan to overthrow the US government" question in the visa application there will be a "did you take part in file sharing" question.
Drawing lines in the sand isn't helping. They are ALL criminally culpable, Democrat and Republican. Getting us to argue amongst ourselves is just one of the ways they distract us from the real issue at hand, the fact that they are working together to fuck us all.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall, re Voltaire
How long until the public have seen this shit through, enough so that they are willing to take it to the streets?
I call upon all nations which have extradition treaties with the US, to start requests for extraditing high-profile US citizens for alleged internet crimes. Let's see how long until the US discovers that these kind of policies are not in their interest. At all. I asked this before, how can the US claim international jurisdiction over IP violations? As the Dutch say, arrogance and pride come usually precede a hard fall. The Roman empire all over, it's time to learn Chinese and forget that the USD ever existed.
You will bow down before us, world! No matter that it takes an eternity!
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
So what happens if, as a US citizen, posting from the United States, I break Sharia Law in Saudi Arabia?
He wasn't just running a "link site," he was actively profiting from providing links to material - which no doubt puts him into the criminal copyright violation realm. When his site was seized, he reopened under a new name and registrar.
Since he used a US registrar that provided a way to argue he is subject to US laws. You can disagree with that, but that looks like what has happened.
He didn't help himself by sticking a finger in ICE's eye by reopening under a new name. Sometimes the smart thing to do is go to ground and hope your oo small to be worth the trouble to prosecute.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
We keep reading about how crazed the USA has become with its DMCA, now the Homeland Security taking down domains, and ICE strongarming in areas where it would seem it should have no jurisdiction or business.
The reason is that it's very convenient for the government to have extremely powerful accusatory tactics and means of getting to and punishing people. You keep complaining, asking why RIAA/MPAA has so much power, but it's simply because it's convenient for the gov't for this seemingly private entity to exercise such power.
Under the guise of anything, the gov't can search your homes without a warrant, can pull over and fingerprint you/iris scan you, can confiscate your electronic equipment, etc, etc... without due process.
All these organizations and laws (DMCA, PROTECT IP) are simply a tool, a back-door way into your homes and private lives.
Once you understand that, you'll also understand why such organizations have such tremendous power. It's one and the same - they work in a symbiotic relationship with the gov't, which is working toward complete control.
He's being accused of being an Englishman? Seems like that should be easily verifiable.
Not links to infringing content.
I don't get how this is enforceable when, under Western laws, ALL content created is copyrighted by their respected authors or assignees. If I put up a blog post (of my own writing), copyright automatically belongs to me. That means that any and all other sites linking to it, are defacto linking to copyrighted content. We WANT links. This is what the internet was built for.
IP for the entertainment industry is ridiculous. There are only so many stories, and so many ways to tell a story that, by the time the 1900's came around all the stories had been told, in various ways in various languages. You may change the names and places but if anyone owns the copyright on the limited meme's out there, it is the greeks from 2500 years ago who got them started on paper. And I'm sure they owe all those stories to their ancestors.
Music , there are 8 notes, enough said. If a certain phrase of notes has not been played by someone else by now you would be witnessing a miracle. Everything we have done as humans has been based on what has gone before us, if we are no longer to share these things, we will witness more movies like the Smurfs or Final Destination 5, seriously people are you still supporting this crap?
In the end the fact is that NONE of the entertainment industry is losign money, they are still making profits every year. A year in which you make a profit is a successful one, ask GM. If they want to make more money, then make something worth buying. Stop putting out the same crap year after year. I mean really who would even consider purchasing a copy of Final Destination 5? I'll give you a hint almost all of them die. Freddy vs Jason? Way to stretch it.
For all the Brits reading this, you should write to your MP at http://www.writetothem.com/ we need to make sure that this is brought to their attention, and that they understand that we will not accept this ridiculous extradition attempt
"Sharing links online, particularly links to copyrighted material,"
Everything is copyrighted! Well, nearly everything. With the exception of project Gutenberg and a few other sites that mostly go out of their way to find public domain material, everything else, i.e. >99.99% of content that exists on the internet, is copyrighted. Content that is not copyrighted is a negligible level of noise, small enough to be ignored for most practical purposes.
By extension, all links on the internet link to copyrighted material.
Oh, you want to make a distinction between material which is hosted with an appropriate license, and content which is not? How do you propose to do that? And given that the hoster/distributor of content can change the content behind any external link at any time, and for any subset of visitors of the hosters choosing (not the linkers choosing), which the linker may not be aware of, may I point out that What. The. Fuck.
Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
if his link farm wasn't to entertainment media, but rather to expensive software developed in the US
With a few exceptions, expensive software is subject to competition from close substitutes distributed as free software. Entertainment is the best known exception.
Hollywood has become the National Socialist Party
I think you need to look up the definition of Socialism
So I guess Rudolf Jung, who suggested the name National Socialist German Workers' Party, also needed to look up the definition of socialism.
(When you fight the Jews, you fight God, and God wins. It's the law.)
And the US has the taxpayer dollars to fund the court costs/jail time?
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
Burning all the fuel
Stealing all the fuel
Eating more food than the body can digest
Waging illegal wars
Killing in the name of freedom
Lying to the general public
Replacing knowledge by cheap entertainment systems
Fascist behavior towards other nationalities, except Israel
Censorship
And above all, an arrogant attitude next to none. The list goes on and on.
Fuck you!
Yours truly,
The rest of the World.
If someone in the UK can be brought to the US for violating an US law in the UK, then I suggest that all cities pass a law stating that the maximum speed limit on all public roads in their state be set at 30 MPH. That way, for instance, the city of Dallas can ticket all highway drivers in Ft. Worth for violating the law. PROFIT!!
Ttile says it all
"We are the United States of America. You will be assimilated. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile."
Yes, technically, it isn't hosting content.
The pedantic technical aspects don't matter. The site took third party content and embedded it within the site. He had a website that existed for the sole purpose of serving up media to customers where he knew, or should have known, that doing so was in breach of copyright. It's ridiculous how the same people that criticise the law for being insane and pedantic come up with even more insane theories about how pedantic the law should be.
And aside from that, it's completely irrelevant! This isn't about what he did or didn't do. Ho could have had a site dedicated to churning out pirate copies of DVDs for all I care. The point is that he did so in Britain. US law has no jurisdiction over him.
They can "seek" extradition all they like... doesn't mean the UK will grant it.
Does your educational system not teach you how to recognize Proper Names or does it not teach history any more?
Congratulations on making the dumbest post on Slashdot today.
Not everyone in the government stays in the government. Not everyone who gets to work in the government was previously in the government. This is an entity made up of different people who will not always benefit from corruption designed to benefit the government because they will not always be part of that. If people in the government have children, they will not be guaranteed to be covered by the supposed benefits that government people are working towards. Unless it becomes some kind of royalty, this makes no real sense. The government would have enough power to kick out its own members, and some kind of stupid "noble war" would start. It would never work the way they supposedly want it to if what you say is really the case.
you in africa and hungry? BREAK COPYRIGHT, SHOW ADVERTS THAT BENEFIT YOU. and get a free ticket to a meal. do the same if you want out of tibet, somalia, whatever.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Teens scoff at a lot of laws because they fully understand nobody will do anything to them... and they are right. Imagine America trying to extradite boatloads of 15 year-olds from around the world.
Arise teens of the world and throw off our chains, you have nothing to lose.
The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
Is it time to invest in, and begin creating, net domains in nations without extradition treaties with the U.S.?
Even if the case against O'Dwyer falls through fear of the costs of having to defend against American Bureaucracy' Legal-Hooliganism should increase non-extradition domain values.
The treaty is very controversial here in the UK: many people feel that the US is using the mere process of extradition as a form of punishment in itself. Sadly, there is a public perception here that the US legal system is vindictive and heavily biased.
Living here, and reading about the SCOTUS's "money talks" case, among many other travesties, leads me to think -- the public in the UK might just be right.
Sadly,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Our government is going bankrupt and we're wasting money on this? Orwell's worst nightmares are becoming pleasant thoughts compared to where we're headed.
If everyone avoided posting links to copyrighted material, the only ones left would be to sites such as the Gutenberg Project.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002620826768