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The Internet's Age of Rage

RackNine sends this excerpt from an editorial at the Guardian: "The worldwide web has made critics of us all. But with commenters able to hide behind a cloak of anonymity, the blog and chatroom have become forums for hatred and bile. ... The psychologists call it 'deindividuation.' It's what happens when social norms are withdrawn because identities are concealed. The classic deindividuation experiment concerned American children at Halloween. Trick-or-treaters were invited to take sweets left in the hall of a house on a table on which there was also a sum of money. When children arrived singly, and not wearing masks, only 8% of them stole any of the money. When they were in larger groups, with their identities concealed by fancy dress, that number rose to 80%. The combination of a faceless crowd and personal anonymity provoked individuals into breaking rules that under 'normal' circumstances they would not have considered. ... One simple antidote to this seems to rest in the very old-fashioned idea of standing by your good name. Adopt a pseudonym and you are not putting much of yourself on the line. Put your name to something and your words are freighted with responsibility."

41 of 315 comments (clear)

  1. John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory by 0101000001001010 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I believe the technical term is Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory.
    http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/3/19/

    1. Re:John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory by MagusSlurpy · · Score: 2

      I just wish we could tag this story with "shitcock."

      --
      My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
    2. Re:John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      So answer me this, which is worse, the anonymous jerk or the narcissist bully. Keep in mind the anonymous jerk will be annoying and the narcissist bully will use violence, threats and attempt to force group intimidation and ostracisation of individuals.

      I wonder who complains loudest about anonymous jerks, could it be the narcissist bullies who have lost the public pulpit to enforce their will upon others either directly through violence or indirectly through controlling and manipulating peer pressure.

      For me the anonymous jerk is mildly annoying and ignorable, whilst I have found the narcissist bullies to be true shit heads and to be confronted publicly and Anonymous'ly' at every opportunity.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  2. Fuck you by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 5, Funny

    This story sucks. Your all idiots.

    FOAD, assholes.

    1. Re:Fuck you by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 2

      No YUO!

    2. Re:Fuck you by discord5 · · Score: 2

      Your all idiots

      +1, Accurate misspelling

  3. Wow 20%? by JDeane · · Score: 2

    I am amazed that 20% of the people who had no risk of being caught did NOT steal... Perhaps humanity is not as corrupt as I thought.

    Or they just didn't know they could not get caught.

    1. Re:Wow 20%? by SilverHatHacker · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What I've seen is that "most adults" have been indoctrinated with the idea that morals are an outdated tool used by society to control the weak-minded. Quite often they will respond with variations of "how dare you push your moral code on me" and "I can decide for myself what's right and wrong". With that kind of self-oriented view of right and wrong, none of this surprises me.

      --
      Funny may not give karma, but +5 Informative never made anyone snort coffee out their nose.
    2. Re:Wow 20%? by jaymzter · · Score: 2

      These were American children. If the test had been in Japan the numbers would have been entirely different. IOW, this is most likely more a cultural failing than something having to do with being online.

      --
      If thou see a fair woman pay court to her, for thus thou wilt obtain love
    3. Re:Wow 20%? by brit74 · · Score: 2

      What I've seen is that "most adults" have been indoctrinated with the idea that morals are an outdated tool used by society to control the weak-minded.

      Indoctrinated? By who? I will admit that this sounds an awful lot like the way religious people view atheists - i.e. religious people believe atheists believe that morality is an outdated tool used by society to control the weak-minded.

    4. Re:Wow 20%? by brit74 · · Score: 2

      I am amazed that 20% of the people who had no risk of being caught did NOT steal... Perhaps humanity is not as corrupt as I thought.

      I don't know about you, but any benefit I'd get from stealing the money would be outweighed by the guilt I felt over stealing the money.

    5. Re:Wow 20%? by hey! · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What I've seen is that "most adults" have been indoctrinated with the idea that morals are an outdated tool used by society to control the weak-minded.

      I don't think they've been indoctrinated. What you're describing is people rationalizing something that makes them feel bad about themselves. In a way the truth is worse than systemic indoctrination. It's systemic disillusionment.

      When you're a kid, they tell you that you are special. Even if nobody can see what makes you special, we're taught to have faith that there is something inside you that is wonderful. Then you become an adult and very quickly it goes from "you are special" to "who the f**k do you think you are?" It's a dog-eat-dog world out there, because so many people are insecure because time is ticking away and their special-ness hasn't manifested itself. People are so desperate to keep up appearances they'll crawl all over other peoples' egos to do it.

      Now me, I've been in situations where I've done the right thing even though nobody would know, but that's because I'm so egotistical I *still* think I'm special. I don't have proof of that, nor do I need it. My geek narcissism is sufficient to make me think of myself as wonderful. Now I suppose that by some standards I'm a fool for passing up on opportunities that "everybody" takes, but my way has its compensations. I don't have to worry that other people will find out I'm not as good as they think I am, because I'm too self-centered to care what other people think. But there is one person whose opinion matters a great deal to me. I'd hate to disappoint him, because he's in a position to know if I'm not up to scratch.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  4. Eternal September by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I believe this was first noticed in 1993.

    --
    Palm trees and 8
    1. Re:Eternal September by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Funny

      I thought eternal september referred more to ignorance: "noobs" who didn't know what they were doing or how to behave on the internet. This is a more general "People wearing masks act worse" applied specifically to online. The general principle was noticed -long- before 1993, and was probably noticed before 1993 in online interactions too.

      "You are using ARPANET chat room. The current time is 23:30, October 29, 1969.

      Anonymous user: "HOW IS BABBY FORMED1!"
      You: "Dr. Kleinrock? What are you doing?"
      Anonymous user: "I'M NOT Kleinrock! I am anonymous!!! TROLOLOLOLOL!"
      You: "Yes you are, there's only two computers on the internet at this time."
      -Anonymous user has disconnected-"

  5. Body Language by Wolfling1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Whilst deindividuation is a recognised problem, I also believe the absence of non-verbal cues is a huge issue as well.

    When we queue for a teller at the bank, there is a natural interaction between us that is completely non-verbal. We can see the woman who is stressed by an obnoxious child. We can see the fragile old man who needs extra time. On the Internet (and in traffic), these signals are not present. We often gauge each other's behaviour and responses in the context of our own lives and emotional state.

    And this all occurs in the overarching context of our progressively deteriorating grasp on the English language. Smileys, and more recently Lol-speak, are an attempt to flesh out our inability to express our emotions in the written word. Lol-speak, or meme-speak is starting to help, but its had the whole of about 10 years to evolve - compared to a few hundred thousand years of the evolution of our non-verbal communication.

    Is it any wonder that tolerance is lacking?

    Thankfully, we're not completely stupid, and we're starting to adapt to the problem. Hence my personal favourite phrase on the Internet: Don't feed the trolls.

    1. Re:Body Language by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 3, Funny

      Your definition of "troll" is astoundingly wrong.

      People who suffer from Aspergers or Autism (like many Slashdot users) are unable to read those cues in real life, much less on the internet. They are victims of a disease, but your definition lumps them in with people who try to raise the hackles of others on purpose.

      If someone does not understand the nuance of your post, it does not mean they are a troll. The inability to read such nuance over the internet is very much akin to Aspergers and Autism. The person on the other end is working at a disadvantage.

      It isn't nice to mock the mentally disabled, but you seem to think it's fine. You, sir, are the exact kind of person this story was written about.

    2. Re:Body Language by epyT-R · · Score: 5, Interesting

      'deindividualization' is actually 'REindividualization.' IE bypassing today's increasing pressures to conform, individuals are saying what they really think, and, according to this article anyway, that's a bad thing. I disagree completely. Feelings, consensus, and politeness should never outweigh rationality, truth, and objectivity. If they do, then we've lost the whole point of communications in the first place.

      I grasp your concept about cues, but it's also supposed to be understood that those on the internet are unaware and (usually) don't care about any particular user's personal problems. The user is supposed to understand this by default. This isn't a rule I made up, it's just part of the deal. There just aren't any other cues other than the language used by the user and the peers he is communicating with. I remember a time when this was considered a good thing because irrelevant attributes were not used to judge.

      Whose tolerance? If anything, the tolerance of the overly sensitive, emotional types that make up the majority of society is what's lacking. This was always true, but, like the anonymous users they whine about, systems like the internet allow them to hit critical groupthink mass as well, forcing their censorious expectations on ever growing amounts of communication between individuals. No matter what they say, their feelings do not justify censoring uncomfortable truth, which is the real reason they would like to stamp out anonymity whereever they find it.

  6. Rage is good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If it takes anonymity for people to say what they really think, then we need more anonymity. Many injustices happen because people in power can count on people being trapped in responsibilities and dependencies. If nobody can say what they think, then nobody can know that they're not alone with their rage. The internet is not a place where you can expect to be treated nicely. It's very honest, and that can be frightening at times, but it's necessary. You shouldn't equate rage to criminal behavior (stealing money).

  7. The obvious point that no one ever talks about by cstec · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This article like many others before it continues to miss the blatantly obvious - that once anonymous, people are finally saying what they actually think

    1. Re:The obvious point that no one ever talks about by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      people... actually think

      I can tell you've not spent much time on the Internet...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:The obvious point that no one ever talks about by instagib · · Score: 2

      Yes, this is the most "scary" part. Sure there are many trolls who disturb for "fun", but one can spot if someone actually is as full of hate/stupidity as their comments look.
      The first time I looked into this abyss was many years ago when Yahoo had commenting enabled. Tribalism, racism and religious fanatism are all around us.

    3. Re:The obvious point that no one ever talks about by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't know that that is what is actually going on. Based on what I observe from others, and what I observe in myself, I think the type of communication we are talking about encourages us to think differently. Are you voicing a hostile thought, that you always had, because it is now safe to do so or are you now having a hostile thought (which then gets voiced) that you would not have had before because only now it is safe to think like that?

      --
      The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
    4. Re:The obvious point that no one ever talks about by travelite · · Score: 2

      But what we 'think' has to be filtered by our collective consciousness, or super egos. That's what separates us from animals. When we're anonymous, we tend to skip that step.

    5. Re:The obvious point that no one ever talks about by tpstigers · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If they can't keep a civil tongue in their head while they express it, I don't give a rat's ass about what they actually think.

  8. eing true to oneself by bug1 · · Score: 2

    Perhaps anonymity just helps people act according to their true nature.

    Its a bit out of my depth, but there are theories of "moral development", children learn what they can do, then if its safe to do it, lastly if its _right_ to do it.

    I guess these kids morality wouldnt be as evolved as adults, so perhaps the experiment is just measuring moral development of the sample, rather then reflecting the moral position of the greater human society.

    Anonymity can make it easier to get away with being irresponsible, but a responsible person wouldnt want to get away with being irresponsible (bad way of saying it i know).

    If Anonymity allows people to show their true self, and we dont like what we see, its not anonymity thats the problem.

  9. Re:Hey, asshat! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Ho, person of dubious intellect! The Fine Summary states:

    Adopt a pseudonym and you are not putting much of yourself on the line

    Apparently they determined that a pseudonym is enough to make one behave in an uncouth manner. I would posit, however, that this depends largely on the persistence of the pseudonym. If you use throw away pseudonyms, like our good troll commodore64_love and all of his little sockpuppets, then you have less of a reason to behave in a civilised manner than if you have one that you are using consistently for a long time.

    After all, your real name is just the pseudonym that the government knows - and in some cases, not even the one that most of your acquaintances, let alone friends, know.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  10. This... by bmo · · Score: 2

    This is a carefully orchestrated war on anonymity. It started with facebook, now Google, and now we have a "paper" saying that "anonymity is killing the internet" and "making your hair curl."

    Make no mistake about it. I'm waiting for my g+ account to be nuked.

    --
    BMO

    1. Re:This... by epyT-R · · Score: 2

      at least there is one other here who sees this.. it truly shocks me that the average poster here doesn't see this trend.. I think it started with those 'single signon' advocates about 10-12 years ago.

      people need to realize that hiding the truth under the filthy rug of political correctness does not make it go away, full of bile or not.

    2. Re:This... by bmo · · Score: 2

      I have never assumed that either. If you look hard enough, you can probably tie this alias to my meatspace address. I've had it that long.

      But I do not wish to remove all barriers to that by being required to use my real name everywhere. My parents have an unlisted phone number, and mine is too by way of cellphone.

      Locks keep honest people out and are not really a deterrent to actual hardened criminals. This does not mean I should remove my door from its hinges.

      --
      BMO

  11. Re:Shutup. by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 2

    Yes. They can see farther into the infrared and ultraviolet than humans can.

  12. Everyone Pretends This Is a Problem... by bistromath007 · · Score: 2

    There is a rather simple way to see that it is not.

    Young people, brought up on the Internet: currently less likely to vote, yes, but not generally given to being mired in the standard polarizing bullshit that boomers ruin the world over, are they?

    Given that it is well-known that the American political system currently runs on spite, it should be wonderful news that our nations' youth have found a much less destructive place to vent their spleen.

  13. Re:I hate to say it by epyT-R · · Score: 2

    That doesn't mean we should build that police state this author obviously wants by eliminating anonymity. It is needed, especially when what needs to be said falls outside the social 'acceptability' arena.

  14. Anonymity isn't the same as it was 160 years ago. by Lord_of_the_nerf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes, anonymity could be a cloak for someone who fears reprisal (social, physical, legal).

    People can and do build reputations around their pseudonyms online, where they reinstall the social norms. You see it on forums every now and then (for example, heavy posters who fear losing their reputations making apologies for bad behavior). Like any society, the internet has it's own behavioral controls - whether they're remnants from offline controls or new ones like 'troll' flags. We're just developing them - some of us are still kids in costumes again really.

  15. And then there by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 2

    and then there are the ones who don't give a crap who sees them because they only think about themselves to start with... hard to feel guilty about anything when your core belief is that you are the only person in the world that matters.

    As an example we grow several flowers in our unfenced front yard and also have a bench out at the edge of the side-walk so people can sit and rest a minute and enjoy the view. Twice in the last two weeks I've seen people just stop and grab a handful of the Lilies for themselves. The last time I got to the front door before they left and asked them WTF she was doing... this woman replies "well I was just going to sit on your lovely bench and admire the view." - a complete non sequitur. I said "So you are rewarding us for putting out the bench by stealing our flowers?" She just repeated the same lame statement and sat on the bench for a minute then left.

    The entire patch of lilies has been stripped over the last month. Since we don't get to enjoy them and the neighbours and passers-by don't get to enjoy looking at them we will just stop growing them. The other result is that we now feel like we have to spend time and money to put up a significant fence around our vegetable garden because hearing "Hey I was going to sit on your bench and I was hungry" can't be far off.

    --
    The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
  16. Anonymity in 2011 Stanley Cup Riot by cimmerian · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Another interesting analysis with anonymity in the Internet age could be done with the Vancouver Stanley Cup riots from a couple of months ago. People were openly destroying vehicles and commercial property while knowingly surrounded by cell phones and professional photographers recording every move they made. Video and photos were uploaded in real time to the Internet, eventually assisting the police and the public to identify a large number of locals.

    It was a bizarre case of cognitive dissonance where these criminals would pose in front of their crimes without a thought to the fact that they would be easily identified and charged with the said photo.

  17. War on anonymity by traindirector · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm not so sure the "war on anonymity" is carefully being orchestrated, though I certainly hear the loudening beat of its drums. And there are certainly forces that are very much behind the cause.

    What worries me most is the support for it I hear from those who aren't very interested in the topic. I think many people see horrible comments on websites or blogs, hear something like the "Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory", and just assume that's the problem, with the obvious solution being banning anonymity without thinking about the negative consequences for true expression of the unpopular, embarrassing, and taboo.

    Systems using pseudonyms and reputation systems are up to the challenge--while not obvious at first, a little thought into the problem shows this. You could even have adding your legal name give you a reputation boost (doesn't Amazon do something like this?). But with all the blaring bile about how humans are not capable of having the power of anonymity without reverting to sub-human pseudo-demons, too little attention is being paid to the real solution that doesn't stifle discourse.

    I hope that the problem is that the pseudonym+reputation solution isn't obvious to the person who is first confronted with this problem, and that over time it will become clear and a consensus will build that anonymity doesn't need to be removed--we just need to add a reputation element. There are certainly forces that will push against this and favor getting rid of anonymity as soon as possible, but I'm far from convinced they will succeed. [Perhaps this is too hopeful?]

  18. Real ID as a muzzle: the other side of the coin by fyngyrz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There's another important issue here: Anonymity can be a worthy tool for social reaction and revolution when the individual expresses a minority or otherwise unpopular opinion; some of the other nasty habits of society include ostracization; limiting availability of jobs; sabotaging retirement; false accusations, false imprisonment, inappropriate listing on the no-fly, no-buy, and the sexual/violent offender (AKA as the you're-fucked) lists; singling out for "attention" from the local (or not local) cops; vandalism; burning crosses on the lawn; DOS, etc.

    While true free speech cloaked in anonymity definitely opens the door for the proverbial "Internet Superturd", suppressing it isn't something that uniformly does good. For instance, Google+'s recent insistence on "real id" effectively eliminates any viewpoint that is sufficiently off-center to present a personal risk at a level unacceptable to the speaker. This in turn means that as the speaker's social load and dependencies increase - family, depending upon keeping one's job, political position, etc. - the more effectively they are muzzled in a "real id" environment.

    Another example is Facebook's TOS where they forbid anyone on the s/v offender's list from joining; anyone put on that list is now locked out and locked to the bottom level of society; doesn't matter that they've paid their debt to society by serving time, paying fines, whatever the judge decided: they're permanently locked out, not to mention often having to live under a bridge or in a camp. That kind of ostracism is way too powerful a tool to use against someone who is supposedly free to walk around; they'll never re-integrate, they can't. If you're going to treat someone that badly, you'd better have the sense to put them in jail and keep them there or else you're just grooming a very, very angry person whom someone will unhappily meet on a dark and stormy night. Unfortunately, this only treats the unfairly listed -- kids having sex across age lines, polygamists, pee-ers in bushes, etc. -- even worse. By far the best solution is to treat payment of sentencing debt as 100% presumed rehabilitation unless shown otherwise. The government shows no sign of being responsible here either, nor forcing corporations like facebook to be responsible, which again brings us back to the need for pushback. And given the lynch mob mentality associated with these matters, anonymity is definitely called for.

    In general right now, our government is doing a lot of things it shouldn't be doing, and these activities are currently pushing hard against individual rights of free speech, free travel and privacy. IMHO, anything that does away with anonymity under these circumstances is extremely unwise.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:Real ID as a muzzle: the other side of the coin by ShakaUVM · · Score: 2

      Excellent post.

      I, also, am ambivalent on the effects of anonymity on the internet. Even here on Slashdot, the more turd-ridden posts are typically anonymous cowards, and they tend to get truculent when you refuse to waste an hour of your life writing a long response to what is essentially a brick wall. If someone wants references and hyperlinks to why I think EP is pseudoscience, I'm willing to do it for a named user, but not an AC.

      That said, I don't think /. should do away with AC-ship. Even though I don't use it hardly at all, when people are in compromised or vulnerable positions, it allows them to exercise their freedom of speech that would otherwise be chilled by the permanence of information on the internet. Maybe there's a person on Slashdot that agrees with the mass-murdering-Norwegian that Cultural Marxism is an endemic problem in Europe - but they also know that if they ever post on the issue using any words except the harshest criticisms of his terrible actions, that he'd be in danger of being fired from his job (or not hired for his next one), that will chill his freedom of expression, and lead to the very repression of thought that Orwell wrote so well about.

      Freedom is a double-edged sword, which is something our modern society (and, especially, leaders) has been having trouble wrapping their minds around. Everyone loves talking about freedom of speech and religion when it's their group (or an allied group) being persecuted, but as soon as "the hated other" gets repressed (whether it be Jews, or Christians, or Atheists, or Muslims, or Gays...) they tend to clam up, or worse, sympathize with it. Generalizing grossly, fundamentalist Christians loved it when that gay scout leader got fired, and gays loved it when Christian clerks at my local recorder's office got fired for wanting the gay-friendly clerks to oversee the gay marriage ceremonies. Likewise, we love it when anonymity is on our side, but hate and fear it when it is used by "the other". Unfortunately, hate and fear seem to be the order of the day in our modern society.

      The ultimate result of all this is that people (or, at least the smart people) are afraid to say what they really mean, as their words will be captured forever by the Google/Wayback panopticon, and they may need to work someday with someone that believes strongly the other way. And, unfortunately, partisanship is so strong these days that people work not work with (or work with and then backstab) those that disagree with them politically. Anonymity is the solution to that.

      "The reserve of modern assertions is sometimes pushed to extremes, in which the fear of being contradicted leads the writer to strip himself of almost all sense and meaning."
      - Sir Winston Churchill

    2. Re:Real ID as a muzzle: the other side of the coin by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 2

      Well said. This is just another article promoting the "Internet anonymity is bad" meme - probably scripted and promoted by The Chertoff Group. Yea, those guys. You know, the former Homeland Security Secretary who then started a security company and then sold its products to (surprise!) the DHS' TSA.

      Chertoff was a major promoter of Real ID - the national ID card scheme passed purportedly to prevent terrorist attacks, even though it would actually do no such thing, but would provide a government a much better way to closely track its citizens and their activities, as well as massive profits for Chertoffs company. Note the security and online identity companies that they have now purchased or invested in. Getting some legislation mandating the ideas behind NSTIC will reap massive return for those investments.

      Chertoff's group is quietly lobbying to bring back the Real ID (under a different name, of course) with new partners like the Center for Immigration Studies.

      So, yea, when I see articles like this, I get REAL suspicious about who is behind it and what their real agenda might be.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    3. Re:Real ID as a muzzle: the other side of the coin by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      they tend to get truculent when you refuse to waste an hour of your life writing a long response to what is essentially a brick wall.

      To be fair, other people could read it too.

      Everyone loves talking about freedom of speech and religion when it's their group (or an allied group) being persecuted, but as soon as "the hated other" gets repressed (whether it be Jews, or Christians, or Atheists, or Muslims, or Gays...) they tend to clam up, or worse, sympathize with it

      They'll talk in circles for hours with ifs and buts and dress it up like a well on May Day, but it always distils down to this: "freedom of speech, as long as I agree with you".

      One other thing. There are a sizeable and vocal minority who are the exact opposite; they bend over so far to be "politically correct" or "non racist" or "fair" (or to appear to be) that they accept discrimination against their own group but expect others to be cosseted and pandered to.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  19. Works in MeatWorld also... by cbybear · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've been biking to work for over 4 years now. About 3 months ago I attached a GoPro HD camera to my helmet to record my bike ride. It is very obvious on my helmet, impossible to miss if you see me on the bike.

    Almost instantly I noticed a drop in car aggression towards me. And so far I've not had anymore "drivers get out of the car and threaten violence" situations. I decided on a camera for legal reasons. Police always told me whenever I reported something that it was my word against theirs. So I expected the camera to help with that. I was a bit surprised when a lot of the problems just stopped.

    So anonymous behaviors extend into the real-world and are combatted in the same way. De-anonymousization...

    --kev