China Mandates Wi-Fi Hotspot Traffic Monitoring

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China Mandates Wi-Fi Hotspot Traffic Monitoring

Posted by Unknown on Tuesday July 26, 2011 @05:50AM from the you-have-nothing-to-hide dept.

hypnosec writes with an article on tightening censorship in China. From the article: "Officials in China warned businesses in the capital city to install web surveillance technology to monitor their traffic or they may have to face hefty fine or closure. ... It seems that the step to intensify web censorship in the country has left businesses with no other choice but to stop providing WiFi services.."

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Go, China! by Doc+Ruby · 2011-07-26 05:56 · Score: 1, Insightful

If there's one thing that can keep the US hanging on to our advantages over China, it's China doing whatever its mafia government can to keep its people down and divided.
We've certainly got enough of our own action along those lines. But China is far more ruthless and stupid about it, giving the us a relative advantage. Go China!

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make install -not war
1. Re:Go, China! by blair1q · 2011-07-26 06:25 · Score: 1
  
  China's government runs the entire country like it's a business. When has running something like a business been an innate recipe for failure?
2. Re:Go, China! by voidness · 2011-07-26 06:39 · Score: 1
  
  It looks like that is one of few advantages that US possess now. Go US!
  
  --
  Everything comes from nothing.
3. Re:Go, China! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-26 06:57 · Score: 1
  
  When the business does enough evil that people start whacking its officials?
  It happens. Rarely, but it does.
4. Re:Go, China! by operagost · 2011-07-26 08:05 · Score: 2
  
  You got me. In a real business, if you treat your employees like China treats its citizens, your best ones leave and you fail. But they can't leave.
  
  --
  
  Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
5. Re:Go, China! by Doc+Ruby · 2011-07-26 09:07 · Score: 1
  
  The US still has many advantages. But indeed the strongest is that as stupid losers as we are, we're not nearly the stupidest loserest. When the bear is chasing you, you don't have to be the fastest - just not the slowest. Our foreign competition's negatives are indeed our positives. Though our global cooperation suffers by summing all the negatives together.
  
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  make install -not war
6. Re:Go, China! by Doc+Ruby · 2011-07-26 09:13 · Score: 2
  
  Haven't you seen the hideous state of business for the past 5-10 years? Running a business like China runs its country is just like that. Corporatism administered by a mafia government, the biggest profits (literally) greased with the worst pollution (energy) and mass murder (military/intel).
  
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  --
  make install -not war
7. Re:Go, China! by Doc+Ruby · 2011-07-26 09:16 · Score: 2
  
  Just one of the many ways in which countries are not like businesses, for better and for worse.
  
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  make install -not war
8. Re:Go, China! by dontmakemethink · 2011-07-26 10:31 · Score: 1
  
  If there's one thing that can keep the US hanging on to our advantages over China, it's China doing whatever its mafia government can to keep its people down and divided.
  You just made my week. What the hell do you think this debt ceiling fiasco is? The debt ceiling was raised 7 times under Bush jr, all without opposition, news attention, or public debate, just as it has been 70 times since JFK, yet somehow this particular time it's earth-shattering news. It isn't a debt debate, it's a debt parade. The entire point is to make it seem like the population has to take the brunt of the debt problems, meanwhile the Federal Reserve (run by private bankers) is the primary debt holder and has the biggest say in whether the debt ceiling is raised or not, moreso than the US Gov't.
  And let's not forget that the setting for this circus, the global economic collapse, was brought on by private bankers knowingly engaged in recklessly leveraged mortgages and derivatives. If the banking industry were trying to enslave the American population, making them accept a hopeless debt spiral is the best way to do it. Every US citizen is now over $50,000 in debt plus has over $1M in personal liability on top of their personal debts, thanks to Uncle Sam. Interest on the national debt is the 5th largest expense in the 2011 US federal budget. That is real money that you really owe, and no you didn't miss anything, you really had no say over whether you went into debt or not.
  At least China is open about being tyrants. They will at least give you an honest explanation why they're taking your house, and make clear what conduct will let you keep your house. No such guide book exists in the "land of the free". You complain that the Chinese are repressed, overworked, and underpaid, meanwhile there are record numbers of people living in parks and under bridges in the US that would kill to trade places with them, and it's only going to get worse.
  Keep on rockin' in the free world
  
  --
  
  War as we knew it was obsolete
  Nothing could beat complete denial
  - Emily Haines
9. Re:Go, China! by satuon · 2011-07-27 00:39 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think Chinese citizens are unable to leave China. I assume they need visas but I doubt their borders are like the Berlin Wall.
10. Re:Go, China! by drdrgivemethenews · 2011-08-02 06:33 · Score: 1
  
  > When has running something like a business been an innate recipe for failure?
  
  When the "something" is a country. The business aspects of a country need to be run like a business. But governments are organized for the collective welfare of the governed, putatively anyway, and the governed don't like being treated like lines on a P&L sheet.
After Finding The U.S. Monitors +4, PatRIOTic by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-26 06:00 · Score: 0

all internet traffic.
Yours In Langley,
Kilgore T.
What's the difference? by Jawnn · 2011-07-26 06:01 · Score: 4, Insightful

China wants the hot spot operators to keep the logs, the U.S. government wants the ISP's to do the same thing. Where is the outrage?
1. Re:What's the difference? by Cornwallis · 2011-07-26 06:12 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly. I'm waiting for John Q. Public to start "demanding" this to protect us from terrorists. Oh! Think of the children.
2. Re:What's the difference? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-26 06:16 · Score: 0
  
  Governments need to be banned. Or maybe it is the masses. Stupidity should not rule.
3. Re:What's the difference? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-26 06:18 · Score: 0
  
  The difference is that the US data retention plans have not gone into effect and haven't become law while China is in full effect.
  I just utterly and completely destroyed you with facts. Game Over. I win.
4. Re:What's the difference? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2011-07-26 06:18 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I suspect that there are two factors:
  
  1. Practical: Network surveillance enjoys enormous economies of scale. The cost, per customer, of some creepy Narus or Sandvine spook shit sitting on the line is fairly small. It is also largely invisible; buried within the more-or-less-arbitrary-and-opaque pricing structure of the ISP. Outside of a fairly small number of NOC jockies, and the feds, nobody has to see it or think about it. Joe Hotspot, on the other hand, faces a proportionally greater compliance burden, so he is likely to just turn the hotspot off. This upsets potential wifi users, and many hotspot operators are small-business types, who will talk with their customers about why there isn't wifi anymore. Incremental and largely invisible price increase vs. substantial decline in open hotspots...
  
  2. Ideological: American Exceptionalism is a hell of a drug. By virtue of our status as the Good Guys, what we do is Good until proven evil, and often even Good after being proven evil. The sinister, repressive, communist state of the cunning chinaman, on the other hand...
5. Re:What's the difference? by Kenja · 2011-07-26 06:29 · Score: 1
  
  China does it to suppress the will of their people! We do it to stop the evil doers.
  
  --
  
  "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
6. Re:What's the difference? by toastar · 2011-07-26 06:31 · Score: 1
  
  : American Exceptionalism
  I really despise this term. every time I hear it I think "Radical Nationalism"
7. Re:What's the difference? by Cogita · 2011-07-26 06:33 · Score: 1
  
  I suspect that there are two factors:
  ...
  
  2. Ideological: American Exceptionalism is a hell of a drug. By virtue of our status as the Good Guys, what we do is Good until proven evil, and often even Good after being proven evil. The sinister, repressive, communist state of the cunning chinaman, on the other hand...
  We've always been at war with Eurasia, perhaps?
  
  --
  -- "The Price of Freedom of Speech, of Press, or of Religion is that we must put up with a good deal of rubbish."
8. Re:What's the difference? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-26 06:34 · Score: 0
  
  While what you say is true, most people are bashing this because this is another step towards the great firewall. This by itself isn't too big a deal but what's it's being used for. This logging will be used for greater censorship that already in law.
  Does logging in America contribute to censorship? To a degree but there are no laws that guaranteeing that power, allowing for companies to fight them on a legal field (to the point where the gov requires a warrant at least).
  So the two are different due to different environments.
9. Re:What's the difference? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-26 06:40 · Score: 0
  
  "Do as i say, not as i do"®
10. Re:What's the difference? by poity · 2011-07-26 06:40 · Score: 1
  
  Consumer interest groups like the ACLU are free to exist and operate in the US to fight directly against government overstep. Try setting up the equivalent of an ACLU in China. Actually you don't even need such a lofty goal, just try being a human rights lawyer in China and see what happens.
  
  --
  your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
11. Re:What's the difference? by voidness · 2011-07-26 06:40 · Score: 1
  
  How do you know who is evil? Say, Oslo guy?
  
  --
  Everything comes from nothing.
12. Re:What's the difference? by future+assassin · 2011-07-26 06:43 · Score: 1
  
  There isn't but its easier to point at the person that you made everyone around you think that he/she is anti freedom and anti everything you believe in.
  
  --
  by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
13. Re:What's the difference? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-26 06:47 · Score: 0
  
  Imagine a Beowulf cluster of said children...
14. Re:What's the difference? by cjb658 · 2011-07-26 06:51 · Score: 1
  
  Coming soon, to a country near you...
15. Re:What's the difference? by cjb658 · 2011-07-26 06:54 · Score: 1
  
  My guess is something like this.
16. Re:What's the difference? by Opportunist · 2011-07-26 06:59 · Score: 1
  
  In a democratic government, stupidity has to rule. It's pretty much a given.
  Intelligent people will choose the party they vote for based on their program, their ideals and the (perceived) benefits they expect from their choice. And since intelligence is pretty much evenly distributed amongst people of all trades, backgrounds, wealth levels and whatever else could influence their choice of party to support, they will be evenly amongst the parties available.
  So it comes down to which party can sway the most stupid people to vote for them.
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
17. Re:What's the difference? by DNS-and-BIND · 2011-07-26 07:00 · Score: 2
  
  As if Americans are the only people on the planet to think themselves special. Pfffff...gimme a break! Hint: every country thinks that they're special and different, and stand out from all others. The Chinese certainly do. Their country's name means "the center of the world" rather than the more literal "middle kingdom" translation that gets thrown around. Pick a culture, they'll tell you why they're special. And yet it's a mortal sin for any American to think so.
  
  --
  Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
18. Re:What's the difference? by Registered+Coward+v2 · 2011-07-26 07:01 · Score: 1
  
  China wants^H^H^H^H^H has told the hot spot operators to keep the logs, the U.S. government wants the ISP's to do the same thing. Where is the outrage?
  US ISPs, (and most other democratic countries as well) can refuse and go to court to fight the requirement. ultimately, the supreme Court can rule and the government must comply. Despite what many people think, the SCOTUS is a pretty independent minded bunch who do what they want, despite the wishes of those who appointed them. So while the idea is pretty outrages, at least we have real legal protections vs. living under a government that believes it can rule by edict and where there is no recourse but to lay low and hope you get ignored or missed.
  
  --
  I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
19. Re:What's the difference? by Opportunist · 2011-07-26 07:01 · Score: 1
  
  But ... but ... but he wasn't an evil guy! He was a Christian fanatic, not an Islamic one!
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
20. Re:What's the difference? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-26 07:13 · Score: 0
  
  The US government, while they are a bunch of stupid assholes, generally don't go around arresting/killing citizens whose opinions they dislike. At least, not solely for that reason.
21. Re:What's the difference? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-26 07:18 · Score: 0
  
  The difference is that China is a communist country where you have no freedom of speech, no right to a fair and speedy trial by a jury of your peers, and the concept of habeas corpus does not apply. The fact that you are apparently incapable of understanding the difference is very, very sad. If you'd like to correct your ignorance, I'd suggest actually spending a few months in China, or Cuba, or Iran, or .... hell, go anywhere outside the modern western world.
22. Re:What's the difference? by Culture20 · 2011-07-26 07:19 · Score: 2
  
  Consumer interest groups like the ACLU
  Citizen interest groups. I'm not a fan of every little thing the ACLU does, but at least they aren't morphing the role of citizen into the role of consumer.
23. Re:What's the difference? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-26 07:24 · Score: 0
  
  I don't even know why China bothers with this surveillance & censorship crap. Look at the US: Their population is known for their fierce sense of independence, individuality, extreme anti-authority attitude, and love of firearms. They have access, via official channels, to what the Chinese government would consider dirty laundry that should be hidden, and access via unofficial channels to some very nasty leaked secrets of a gravity that would cause the Chinese government to shit their pants.
  And what do they do when they have access to info that should cause outrage? Most do something ranging between defending their government and saying "oh man that burns my ass! But anyways..." A few will write angry rants or hold peaceful protests (maybe in a free speech cage). That's about it.
  If the Chinese government was smart (note that smart != benevolent) they'd dump all this surveillance & censorship crap and put a small fraction of the money saved into a Chinese Idol and Chinese Bachelor (and Bachelorette). Then they should split their party into two with a barely perceptible difference in ideology and allow for democratic elections. This allows the population to nudge their government a teensy bit and give them a feeling of control while they actually have no meaningful amount of control. The Chinese people aren't starving and they mostly have TVs right? That's all that's needed for this plan to work.
  The Chinese government should have also learned from Egypt that if you don't allow anger to vent, it explodes. When Egypt shut off its Internet connection is when people took to the streets.
  I really shouldn't be giving oppressive governments tips but it's so frustrating to watch stupidity.
24. Re:What's the difference? by rbrausse · 2011-07-26 07:40 · Score: 1
  
  US ISPs, (and most other democratic countries as well) can refuse and go to court to fight the requirement. ultimately, the supreme Court can rule and the government must comply.
  unfortunately this is not exactly true, National Security Letters are (disclaimer: IANAL) neither refusable nor you are allowed to make it public. One example was this case of an ISP owener, he had the guts to disclose it to the ACLU.
  Nicholas Merrill talk about the NSL and the gag order is informative, interesting and disturbing
25. Re:What's the difference? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2011-07-26 07:55 · Score: 1
  
  It's not a matter of 'sin'(or of being uniquely American, though the American manifestation is the relevant one if you want to talk about Americans...). It's a matter of sloppy thinking leading to lousy conclusions.
  
  If you start by observing that a country is unique in certain(generally positive) ways and from there conclude that it is exceptional, your reasoning is on a fairly firm footing, though your premises may or may not be accurate.
  
  What makes somebody an "exceptionalist" in the perjorative sense is when the start from the premise that their country is exceptional in a positive sense and then conclude that what it actually does must therefore be good and special.
  
  The former belief in exceptionalism is valid and(hopefully, if you've actually being doing a good job) also true.
  
  The latter is dangerous nonsense. "Goodness" or "Exceptionalness" are judgements subsequent to actions, not axioms prior to them...
26. Re:What's the difference? by 2names · 2011-07-26 07:56 · Score: 1
  
  Also, Dude; "Chinaman" is not the preferred nomenclature. "Asian-American", please.
  
  --
  "I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
27. Re:What's the difference? by icebike · 2011-07-26 07:59 · Score: 1
  
  China wants the hot spot operators to keep the logs, the U.S. government wants the ISP's to do the same thing. Where is the outrage?
  Read the story again. The word "logs" never appeared.
  The Chinese government wants web monitoring and surveillance, which goes way past pen register data which is essentially all you get with logs.
  Web monitoring and surveillance suggests deep packet inspection for content, keywords, and web sites regardless of how many anonymous proxies you pass thru on the way. None of that is available from mere logs at the hot-spot, especially when ssl is used in the browsers.
  
  --
  Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
28. Re:What's the difference? by CannonballHead · 2011-07-26 08:01 · Score: 1
  
  I'm a Christian. Pretty conservative one, too, though perhaps not in the typical use of the term.
  "Oslo guy" was evil; I don't care which religion he subscribed too. Out of curiosity, was this a knee-jerk reaction comment, or have some Christian groups actually said he wasn't evil?
29. Re:What's the difference? by icebike · 2011-07-26 08:06 · Score: 1
  
  : American Exceptionalism
  I really despise this term. every time I hear it I think "Radical Nationalism"
  And that is exactly why the term is used, so some how call you a Nationalsozialist without you realizing they have done so.
  
  --
  Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
30. Re:What's the difference? by operagost · 2011-07-26 08:08 · Score: 1
  
  This is why we have to strengthen the republic, not bring "more democracy" as many special interests demand.
  
  --
  
  Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
31. Re:What's the difference? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-26 08:09 · Score: 0
  
  From the tone and content of the rest of that post, it is clear the author was using that language for effect. Dude.
32. Re:What's the difference? by operagost · 2011-07-26 08:10 · Score: 1
  
  I think, "high expectations." There's a big difference between striving to maintain a reputation and simply being an egotist.
  
  --
  
  Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
33. Re:What's the difference? by icebike · 2011-07-26 08:18 · Score: 1
  
  Ah, but that doesn't fit in with the Hate the US crowd. does it.
  It took utter defeat and destruction of virtually every city for the Germans to be temporarily broken of the national superiority complex. (It has long since re-established itself both on an individual and national level into the culture). Japan never for a moment doubted their cultural/racial superiority even while accepting defeat.
  I often become somewhat embarrassed by the over the top extravaganzas of rah rah USA showboating that you see in the press or on TV. Until you see the equally nauseating programming from the Canadian Olympics, or the Chinese Olympics, or the marriage of a meaningless royal figurehead of nation long past its prime.
  It happens everywhere, but only the USA gets maligned for it. Probably because so much of the world insists on carrying our TV programming and insists on reading our newspapers.
  
  --
  Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
34. Re:What's the difference? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-26 08:20 · Score: 0
  
  I believe he was referring to citizens of china, Asian American only works for Asians with American citizenry...
35. Re:What's the difference? by 2names · 2011-07-26 08:31 · Score: 1
  
  WHOOSH
  
  --
  "I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
36. Re:What's the difference? by poity · 2011-07-26 10:26 · Score: 1
  
  oops you're right. C words come and go in my head and I got em mixed up in there somewhere :D
  
  --
  your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
37. Re:What's the difference? by Opportunist · 2011-07-26 15:15 · Score: 1
  
  The difference being? You still have the same idiots with the finger on the decision button.
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
38. Re:What's the difference? by Opportunist · 2011-07-26 15:21 · Score: 1
  
  Pretty much a knee-jerk reaction to the usual anti-Muslim sentiment every time some idiot from their religion goes nuts. Why is it a "typical Muslim" whenever some idiot blows himself and others sky high in the name of Allah but an evil, lonely loony if it's in the name of Jesus?
  Don't get me wrong, I don't care much for either religion, but IMO religions should be treated equally.
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
39. Re:What's the difference? by JinjaontheNile · 2011-07-26 15:23 · Score: 1
  
  At the risk of going even further off topic
  
  Christians have understandably been very quick to distance themselves from the Oslo nutter
  One of the prime methods has been to claim that that he was really a godless heathen
  As an Atheist, I find that disgusting.
40. Re:What's the difference? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-27 06:46 · Score: 0
  
  They're not Asian-American if they're born and living in China you moron. Mod Parent Troll.
41. Re:What's the difference? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-27 19:51 · Score: 0
  
  I just completed a 12 year stint in Asia, six of those years in China, so let me throw in my 2 cents worth.
  1) Chinese people, for the most part, do not care. They use the internet for media consumption and that media comes from accepted and prescreened chinese sources. They have as much and more content as we do including prescreened and accepted chinese pirates of all your favorite tv shows and movies as well as the chinese created content, some of which is fun, funny or sometimes even pretty good.
  2) the chinese people who do care use a VPN at home and don't wander around connecting to "risky western"sites through wi-fi. The VPNs are probably hacked as well, but it is another layer of security for what they are trying to do (good or bad, remember that many people trying to get around the government blocks are doing it for criminal or terrorist activities: yes, they are not the majority, they are just the excuse for the programs that do this but they exist none the less. China uses them as a mask for their real need to control their citizenry. This need is a different topic however and is multifarious)
  3) The roll-out of this program has been in stages, and i expect that the final stage (assuming this isn't) will mean the logging of every ISP connection in the country. I assume this is the goal
  4) I worked in a logged environment for the last year. What is logged? Every goddamn thing: http, ftp, rss, telnet, etc. Anything not logged is blocked ( like bittorrent, it is too much trouble to log the shifting sands of a bittorrent connection so they just block it all. Every machine is logged separately and you can, in this way, request from the ISP even simple things like "Did mibigwong@bigwong.com send me an email on the 12th of July 2011?" which I did and was given the information with the warning that I shouldn't tell other staff that they logged this kind of information. They also log the content as well. When I asked about the massive data sinks this must require IT said that the government provided the "service". So this is some serious cloud stuff, everything is there from my entire district of the city where I lived (this was rolled out in a special district of Suzhou which is essentially universities and teachers) and is stored or sifted for problems and the source of the problem is investigated: so most people don't need to worry about problems from the service (this was in the announcement from IT about the logging)
  5) as my friend in IT said, whatever you do, think first, we don't want the extra work of chasing down complaints from the sifters and hassling people about it.
  6) at the same time this was instituted the university shut down all its wireless hotspots, which used to cover the entire campus.
  So this is a serious program and will get worse. I left China, not because of these issues, but because it was time to move on. Nonetheless, i am very glad to be back in the west and hope i don't find the same programs, just hidden from view, in the west.
42. Re:What's the difference? by CannonballHead · 2011-08-01 05:10 · Score: 1
  
  I'm late in responding, but.... I agree that there is a somewhat typical anti-Muslim response. I am aware of this in Christian circles, and I too find it frustratingly... well, unfair I guess. I think there is something to be said for differences in what the generally accepted interpretation of the associated Scriptures state; however, blanket statements based on wackos from either group seem to be knee-jerk generalized statements more from emotion than any sort of study.
43. Re:What's the difference? by CannonballHead · 2011-08-01 05:20 · Score: 1
  
  Late in replying, but oh well. I don't understand what is disgusting about it ... not that I know why and don't understand it, I mean I don't know why you would say that. I'm sure you have a reason and probably a good one, I just don't see it at the moment...
  I think there are much easier ways to distance myself from the Oslo guy. The easiest would be that a "Christian," by its name and by its own generally accepted standard, is one that supposedly follows Christ; i.e., follows His teaching, believes what He said, etc. What this guy did is quite antithetical to anything Christ said. I don't see why I need to explain any further; I think that separates us pretty comfortably. It'd be kinda like an atheist who said he believed in creation by God. It doesn't make sense; if you're an atheist, you believe there isn't a god, that's kind of the whole point. If you say you believe in creation by God, you're not an atheist. So, if you say you're a Christian, and you don't follow Christ at all...
  Somewhat incidentally, "Christian" has kinda become synonymous, to some extent, with "Western" or "Non-Eastern religion." That's why almost everyone says they are a "Christian," even though they would barely be able say who Christ was, who Christ said He was, what He did and taught, etc. It's about as useful as saying you're an atheist and thinking that that means you like strawberry smoothies.
  From what I have read online, nobody really knows what the Oslo guy really believed. He got labeled as a "fundamentalist Christian," which can mean all kinds of things. I have yet to find a good resource that lays out what he believes, or what his church (i.e., the one he attended? if any) believed, etc. He got a label and nothing more, it seems.
Drop everything by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-26 06:04 · Score: 0

The state declares that you have a new responsibility. Drop everything you're doing and comply, because we have the guns.
(That's not meant to be funny. It's meant to be universal.)
The state works the same way no matter how they operate. Democracy, monarchy, tyranny, communism -- the key tool of government is always the gun (i.e. physical force).
1. Re:Drop everything by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-26 06:14 · Score: 1
  
  And the key policy of government is always the protection of government. By happy chance sometimes this coincides with the well being of the state, but not always. The individual is a thing, a statistic. A life to be spent in a war, a vote, a source of wealth and production or a problem and a source of unrest. Welcome to real politics. But YOU don't matter. There are plenty of others just like you.
2. Re:Drop everything by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2011-07-26 06:33 · Score: 1
  
  A convenient item of trite cynicism; but not actually true.
  
  Force is expensive. States that invest in it in excess collapse under their own weight. Voluntary compliance, whether produced by patriotism, fear of the state, love of order, material benefit, fear of chaos, hatred of some other or other, or some combination of these, is cheap. In addition, you(for the moment) need gunmen to wield the guns for you. At a bare minimum, the gunmen must fear one another more than they hate you, and that isn't all that stable in the long term. To really last, you need enough loyalists(or at least well-paid mercenaries) to induce fear in everybody else. And that is the bare minimum case.
  
  Guns certainly have their uses, in pruning deviants who will not be brought to heel by more delicate means of suasion; but(barring the rise of reasonably strong AIs and robots) simply aren't enough to maintain one's grip. At a bare minimum, the bystanders must be cowed by the fear that the next chap to be shot might be them. More usually, a state whose situation is actually stable will be cheered by the majority as it applies force to deviants.
  
  Rousseau was absurdly wrong about a lot of things; but his statement that "The strongest is never strong enough to be always the master, unless he transforms strength into right, and obedience into duty." hits pretty close to the mark, per unit length.
3. Re:Drop everything by bucky0 · 2011-07-26 13:45 · Score: 1
  
  Going along with that, I seem to remember an article saying that china spends more on internal security than its military. As more people become ... informed (? not sure of the right word) of the possibilities for political freedoms others enjoy, they're going to have to up that if they want to maintain an iron grip. That can't be too sustainable in the long-run. There's a LOT of people to suppress.
  
  --
  
  -Bucky
Honest by houghi · 2011-07-26 06:14 · Score: 1

At least they are honest and upfront about it. I can imagine some countries would rather do all the snooping behind peoples back.

--
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
1. Re:Honest by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-26 06:19 · Score: 0
  
  I can imagine some countries would rather do all the snooping behind peoples back.
  Like all the western nations - google ECHELON
2. Re:Honest by maxwell+demon · 2011-07-26 06:33 · Score: 1
  
  I can imagine some countries would rather do all the snooping behind peoples back.
  Like all the western nations - google ECHELON
  Not all western countries do it (only) behind people's back ...
  https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Telecommunications_data_retention
  
  --
  The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
3. Re:Honest by poity · 2011-07-26 06:49 · Score: 1
  
  The excuse is to catch criminals. How much more honest is that really compared to any other nation?
  In any case, if candor is all that is required in your mind's eye to mend the broken relationship between government and citizens, then I'm afraid you're beyond the reach of reason.
  
  --
  your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
4. Re:Honest by Culture20 · 2011-07-26 11:01 · Score: 2
  
  google ECHELON
  You know what ECHELON is? It's a monthly list of IPs which googled ECHELON.
As China goes, so one day will the world by elrous0 · 2011-07-26 06:20 · Score: 2

Right now it's easy to dismiss this as a Chinese oppression thing. But how long until this spreads to the "free" countries too. Many are already passing laws mandating logging and monitoring at the ISP level. It's only a matter of time before this filters down to hotspots too.

--
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
1. Re:As China goes, so one day will the world by DigiShaman · 2011-07-26 06:41 · Score: 1
  
  You're right of course. Throughout human history, the concept of individual freedom and liberty is rather new. It's very easy to see how once put into practice is an exception rather than the rule of civilization. It's quite possible that while America may have dominated for a relatively short period of time, China's reinforced oppressive system may last a few hundred years if not longer. In fact, the Chinese view this current government as just another Dynasty. They come and go, but each one lasts a very long time.
  Freedom is only obtained through desperation and self-sacrifice. Only ever-vigilant people can maintain its availability. But make no mistake about it, freedom does erode over time as people are inherently lazy through each passing generation.
  
  --
  Life is not for the lazy.
Four boxes by tepples · 2011-07-26 06:21 · Score: 2
Drop everything you're doing and comply, because we have the guns.
The framers of the U.S. constitution recognized this and specifically protected the people's right to use four "boxes" against the government:
1. Soap box: right to freedom of speech, of the press, and of peaceable assembly
2. Ballot box: procedures to vote out the bastards who made the rules that must be complied with, plus (as amended) a right of universal adulthood suffrage
3. Jury box: right to a trial by jury who can throw out a case on reasonable doubt that what the accused did should have been a crime in the first place
4. Ammo box: right to organize into militias and bear arms
To what extent does the People's Republic of China protect the same rights?
1. Re:Four boxes by Mashiki · 2011-07-26 07:48 · Score: 1
  
  None. Except in Taiwan.
  
  --
  Om, nomnomnom...
2. Re:Four boxes by bucky0 · 2011-07-26 13:43 · Score: 1
  
  not sure if trolling, but despite the conflict over who actually "owns" taiwan, the PRC doesn't have any control over its behavior...
  
  --
  
  -Bucky
3. Re:Four boxes by Mashiki · 2011-07-26 13:51 · Score: 1
  
  Well I'm surprised that you caught it. Taiwan is the check against the PRC.
  Cookies for all!
  
  --
  Om, nomnomnom...
w00t! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-26 06:31 · Score: 0

first the see you there? guy came back
now K. Trout is back
we just need the Markov chain bot to come back...
Tails? by E.I.A · 2011-07-26 06:39 · Score: 0

Use a bootable usb-drive like Tails. Or change your mac and hostname before connecting to hostile routers, and use proxies, YaCy or the equivalent. However, there may not be enough room in China to permit a dongle sticking out your laptop. who knows.

--
Laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made. - Otto von Bismarck
1. Re:Tails? by I+Read+Good · 2011-07-26 07:24 · Score: 1
  
  You're missing the point. TFA is talking about public hotspots. Imagine walking into Starbucks and having to hand over your driver's license before you can connect your laptop to their AP.
2. Re:Tails? by E.I.A · 2011-07-26 15:11 · Score: 0
  
  Pardon then. Should have RT(entire)FA, so I admit my lowliness. I am thinking wildly on this, and cannot even foresee a laptop running a server through virtual-machine and using tunneled adhoc connections bypassing this. Such creativity would be dangerous anyway. I guess this means they've been defeated, and censorship wins. But isn't there always something? something?...something?
  
  --
  Laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made. - Otto von Bismarck
Translated by Registered+Coward+v2 · 2011-07-26 06:55 · Score: 2

The Dongcheng Public Security Bureau did not respond to requests for comment on Monday, but according to its publicly issued circular, the measure is designed to thwart criminals who use the Internet to “conduct blackmail, traffic goods, gamble, propagate damaging information and spread computer viruses.” Such nefarious activity, the notice says, “not only hurts the interests of the country and the masses, but has also caused some businesses to suffer economic losses.”
the measure is designed to thwart citizens who use the Internet to “propagate damaging information that could piss them off and threaten our cushy party jobs and lives.” Such nefarious activity, the notice says, “not only hurts the interests of the country's ruling party party members, but has also caused some of them and their families and cabals to suffer economic losses.”
There. No need to use Babelfish
Seriously, they may keep a lid on dissent for a while, but when it starts, look out.

--
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Respect by PPH · 2011-07-26 07:19 · Score: 1

I've got to hand it to the Chinese. At least they are up front about sniffing Internet traffic and tracking users.

--
Have gnu, will travel.
So much energy and effort put into by Ukab+the+Great · 2011-07-26 08:37 · Score: 1, Insightful

monitoring Chinese citizens in cafes, and so little put into monitoring Chinese baby formula manufacturers.
I'm Picturing Exploding WiFi Equipment... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-26 08:46 · Score: 0

First derailing trains due to engineering incompetence, now this? ....God Dammit, China...... It's like Abbott and Costello over there!
Stop providing services by nurb432 · 2011-07-26 09:05 · Score: 1

The real goal.

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----
China today by fremean · 2011-07-26 10:07 · Score: 1

Australia tomorrow.
Other slogans:
China, leading Australia
China, Australia's future today.
Accountability. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-26 11:44 · Score: 1

China has a habit of shooting people who do things like let nasty chemicals end up in baby formula.
Here in the US, we let them shrug their shoulders, say, "My bad, guys!" and go on like nothing whatsofuckingever happened.
But hey, whatever xenophobic bullshit makes you sleep better at night, I guess.