Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Launches Avatar Kinect
mikejuk writes "Is Avatar Kinect a world-changing innovation or is it just silly? The idea is simple enough. It uses Kinect to determine body position and facial expression and maps these in real-time onto an avatar displayed on the screen along with other similar avatars. The big question is: what is it good for? The simple answer is that you can hide behind your avatar. It is an opportunity for anyone who feels less than confident about their appearance to become a performer — Microsoft is running a stand-up-comedian-via-avatar competition, for example. The internet has long provided an anonymous platform where users can express themselves, and Avatar Kinect extends this to facial and body expressions. Perhaps this is how video phone calls finally catch on — I'll get my avatar to phone you."
Few years yet I guess.
.: Semper Absurda
obligatory guild reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urNyg1ftMIU
Finally, we can actually have the thing that we've been calling those stupid static (or worse, animated) pictures. A picture isn't an avatar. It's just a picture. An avatar is a full representation of the person hiding behind it, and with this software and the kinect (which is commercial, easy to acquire hardware for the geeks interested in this) we can finally have *real* avatars.
I think this is incredibly cool and a substantial step towards fullbody digital interactions over the internet being available to the man on the (first world country) street.
You should turn signatures off.
Isn't the whole appeal of games and virtual worlds that you are NOT yourself when you use them?
If you want to do standup comedy while looking and acting exactly like yourself there's this other system for that. IIRC it's called "the real world".
Wow I have heard of not reading the article, but you didn't even bother to read the crappy slashdot summary. The whole point is the avatar DOESN'T have to look exactly like you, it mimics your expressions and actions not your looks and features. It adds to the experience while still allowing people to hide themselves.
Is Avatar Kinect a world-changing innovation or is it just silly?
We've been asked this question before sometime around 2001. Back then it was Matrox and not Microsoft, and it was called HeadCasting
The answer... it was just plain silly. The G550 was a failure for everything except extreme multi-monitor work and HeadCasting was a completely ignored feature.
I'm not sure about others, but for family and friends I'd rather see them when I talk to them, and for the rest of the people on my Steam "friends" list I'd prefer not even being able to hear them let alone see some stupid 3D image they hide behind.
What the hell is Microsoft thinking?
Bill Gates has finally caught up with the ideals of the Solarian society.
Typical american..... First he looks like an idiot.... then he confirms it.
"they ALREADY have the hardcore audience down pat"
The Xbox 360 is completely dead in Japan.
The Xbox 360 is completely dead everywhere in Europe outside of the UK.
Microsoft doesn't have anything 'down' with the Xbox 360.
"Considering everyone I know with a Wii has maybe 3 games"
The Wii, PS3, and Xbox 360 all have attach rates around 8.
"They have the hardcore market, not much growth there anymore for them"
The PS2 sold 100+ million consoles after it reached 50 million and dropped in price to $199 from $299.
"they have a real shot at taking the #3 slot in mobile"
Microsoft's mobile marketshare is plummeting each quarter. And Windows Phone 7 has a worldwide marektshare of 1 percent.
"The PS3 was waaay too expensive at launch and now the one two punch of the hack all over the news for weeks and Netflix making Blu Ray for most folks a non starter I'd say they are never gonna pull out of dead last this round."
The PS3 is outselling the Xbox 360 in 2011 by a large amount while still being 100 dollars more expensive and Microsoft blowing half a billion dollars on advertising and PR in 2011.
The Xbox 360 is in last place in worldwide installed base and has been for quite some time.
Stop reading fanboy fake sales number sites to avoid making a fool of yourself in the future.
stuff that no Xbox would have ever cared about that has been done for years with webcams or Sony's Eye Toy suddenly is 'innovative!!!' and 'amazing!!!'.
Well.
The hobbyists and computer vision people seem to be enjoying buying the things, so there must be something inherent different from webcams and the eye toy.
Even if it ends up being a complete flop, the research sector of other places should still benefit so huzzah?
"Kinect is piece of junk novelty device"
They said that about the computer once.
but this is a nice incremental step forward. When my avatar looks like one of the characters in Mass Effect (lip-syncing included) I'll be impressed. I suppose we'll need to wait for the next generation console and Kinect 2.
Video conferencing doesn't use much data to begin with. Talking head model conferencing uses 16kbps, and full video uses 128-384kbps. Most home and business lines can easily manage that up and down.
while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
After watching the Ghost Recon future soldier demo videos, it seems like the kinect is certainly CAPABLE of actually tracking minute motions (the guy opening and closing his hand to shoot). For example if you just open the calbration menu, you can barely make out your fingers if you open and close your hand unless you are extremely close, but if you boot up the UFC Trainer the little green tracking display in the corner has a much higher level of detail.
I thought it was a pretty good film about Avatars.
While you are right, "natural interfaces" are going somewhere; there's not going to be much of a revolution, more an evolution.
This Kinect toy is funny enough - like the Wiimotes - but it's just a gimmick for some easy party entertainment. Kind of like karaoke, the entertainment value is not in what you're doing, but in getting shitfaced with friends.
Just like there's always someone who thinks their invention is going to replace the mouse and keyboard; so there's always people who think console controllers are going to be replaced. Not very likely, until someone gets brain interfaces right - the current form of controllers is pretty optimal. Maybe small improvements can be made - which is why there's different models from different manufacturers - but the basic shape has evolved over a few generations (remember the original NES controllers, and the old 2600 ones?) to be something that's easy to pick up and comfortable to use; and, like the mouse and the keyboard, any potential contenders will have to be better by more than a bit to have a chance. Waving my arms in front of the telly trying to get Samus to shoot the bloody bastard instead of offering her tits for a spanish tie is not it, amusing though it might be for the spotters.
What a depressingly stupid machine.
And, honestly, for most people it still is. It's only been the "social revolution" - facebook and twitter - that has really integrated the internet, and by extension computers, in people's daily lives.
The web is fun, but most people wouldn't have missed it much before facebook. Gaming was nice, but not really a mainstay outside of the hardcores. Spreadsheets and wordprocessors are, for the most, something that smells too much of the office to be much used at home.
The computer has never had a true, neccesary function in people's lives before the social aspect popped up - email being the closest thing. Now that facebook has integrated itself in people's social habits, a computer has become a more convenient way of checking up on your friends than the telephone.
It was probably inevitable; but before that a computer was an expensive piece of metal for light diversions to most people.
What a depressingly stupid machine.
> the avatar DOESN'T have to look exactly like you
For now. Remember how Suckerberg wants you to use your real name? Google's Schmidt commented along the same lines, at some point. Iirc, Blizzard has a similar policy on the forums. Google+ would like you to use your "common" name - not exactly the same, but close enough.
We're still safe, for now; but once it turns into an actual metaverse, how long will it be before the authorities think of the children, say well, if you've nothing to hide... and demand real-you avatars ?
Yes, far-off; out there; extreme and improbably. What if someone told you twenty years ago you'd have a choice between porn scanners and sexual harassment if you want to fly? Slippery slope, and all that.
What a depressingly stupid machine.
I can't believe you've not be modded up :P
Read more books people.
It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
Also, unlike Move or the Wii, the Kinect doesn't require a controller. Which means... you can use a regular normal controller with Kinect and have it's added capabilities used elsewhere.
Mass Effect 3 is to support voice commands. Other games have gestures you can do whilst using a controller. No one will play an FPS with Kinect only, but there's no reason why Halo 4 can't have Kinect augmentation. Or other games - wasn't the next Forza supposed to let you turn your head to look around? Certainly better than trying to do it via a d-pad on the wheel controller. (And yeah, there were TrackIRs, but who wanted to put reflective dots on their head? Though it was popular with the flight sim crowds, who could put the dots on their helmets instead).
Eye Toy and the like can't manage that - they deal with a 2D image and use various tricks to separate the background from the foreground (notably movement) while Kinect uses the cheap but effective structured light fields to do 3D mapping so the player can be tracked always, even if they plop on the couch and not move.
Video conferencing doesn't use much data to begin with. Talking head model conferencing uses 16kbps, and full video uses 128-384kbps. Most home and business lines can easily manage that up and down.
I've been doing a distance degree with the Open University, and most of our tutorials are on-line, and it's voice-and-slides -- we get no video. "much data" is relative, and most commercial e-classroom environments don't support video conferencing past 3 or 4 participants.
The course I'm taking is French, and believe me, a voice-only conference call is a horrendous environment for trying to learn a language. I took part in a few experimental sessions on Second Life, and the experience was a whole lot better, although a lot of time was wasted while the other students tried to get to grips with the interface.
Personally, I think tech like this has the potential to alleviate many of the problems I've encountered during my degree.
HAL.
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
... the airport.
I8-D
This would make me way more confident. - "Get to the chopper"
Anonymous porn, what else?
I'd love to know EXACTLY how is it a troll to point out the obvious, that MSFT is going for the casual audience with the Kinect. I mean is anyone seriously think the GoW/CoD/MoH/Halo crowd is gonna put down their controllers to do a "pew pew' dance?
No it is simple math. MSFT has seen they have gotten just about all the hardcore gamers they are gonna this round and while the Sony fanboy keeps bringing up the Japanese numbers I would point out NEVER in history has a US console EVER sold in Japan, their tariffs make that an impossibility. In the other markets MSFT has gotten just about all the hardcore gamers they are gonna get, they have plenty of machines and the RRoD problem fixed, so where to go now?
Two words: Casual gamers. The Wii has shown that market is a good market but the one place the Wii comes up short is connectivity which MSFT with the PC extensions and XBL is quite good at. By sinking resources into Kinect they give all those soccer mom/ family fun time users a reason to look at the X360 and from the numbers of Kinects selling I'd say it was a smart move. The PS3 is still waaay overpriced compared to the X360 which starts at just $150, The Wii has virtually zero third party support outside of shovelware, so there is a serious opportunity for growth in this market if they play their cards right.
Will it work? I'd say it all depends on how well they can get quality third party support. They seem to have the connectivity down but without real quality third party support MSFT will have an uphill battle getting kinect to have legs. Only time will tell but I'd say it is anj excellent start.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Isn't the whole appeal of games and virtual worlds that you are NOT yourself when you use them?
If you want to do standup comedy while looking and acting exactly like yourself there's this other system for that. IIRC it's called "the real world".
Wow I have heard of not reading the article, but you didn't even bother to read the crappy slashdot summary. The whole point is the avatar DOESN'T have to look exactly like you, it mimics your expressions and actions not your looks and features. It adds to the experience while still allowing people to hide themselves.
How is that made clear in any way in the "crappy slashdot summary"? To quote:
"It uses Kinect to determine body position and facial expression and maps these in real-time onto an avatar displayed on the screen along with other similar avatars."
Sounds a lot like it's simply mapping your image onto a virtual version of you, not animating a completely different character using your position/expression.
Read Pynchon.
Heh thanks. I'm in for the sport, not the modpoints.
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Actually, the problem with Kinect is the Xbox360's USB2.0 port - it's not fast enough.
The kinect is equipped with a VGA camera (60fps), and the QVGA IR camera (60fps) and a 4-microphone array. This configuration just barely falls under the current USB bandwidth supported by the 360. And by current, it's what you can achieve with the 360 right now. The theoretical maximum transfer speed for the hardware is around 35MB/sec. Achieving that would let them run the IR camera at full VGA resolution, which should make it possible to detect fingers.
It's very possible Microsoft has got it working in a beta state for the E3 demos, but nothing solid and releasable yet (perhaps the overhead on the CPU is too high - it is USB, after all)
Do you have any reference to the Kinect producing 60 fps? I'm pretty sure it doesn't.
Looks like 30 fps per 2 active people: http://rpad.tv/2010/06/29/xbox-360-kinect-limited-to-two-players-and-640-x-480/