Finding Fault With the Low, Low Price of Android

bonch writes "Google's accusation of patent abuse toward its competitors has generated many responses, some of which have asked whether Android's free price is anti-competitive. Drawing comparisons to Microsoft's antitrust trial, in which they were accused of giving away Internet Explorer to drive competitors out of the browser market, Thurrott argues that Google's rivals are 'leveling the playing field' through patent fees by removing an artificial price advantage funded by monopoly search revenues. 'One could argue that Google is using its dominance in search advertising to unfairly gain entry into another market by giving that new product, Android, away for free. Does this remind you of any famous antitrust case?'"

Comments

This is why we can't have anything nice

[Haedrian]

Its free. Lets be happy about it.

Oh noes, its ruining my ability to sell stuff. Lets attack their patents to ruin it. Its got nothing to do with Microsoft's antitrust trial - that was something bundled with a sold product - this is something free which Google is using to sell something else (apps for example). Its kinda like how certain open source stuff works.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[zero.kalvin]

The analogy is flawed, they can't compare Android to IE. IE was shipped with WinOS. WinOS was the more or less the only used OS out there ( I mean for the general population) , that's why it was anti-competitive to give for free ( or why it was anti-competitive by MS ). Now the case with Android is that it does not enjoy a monopoly, the hardware is diverse, and on the same hardware provider ( Like HTC for example) is offering different OS. If they want to offer it for free then it's not the Open Handset Alliance's problem, if others want to out compete Android, then they must offer something distinguished so that people will consider paying for it. It is the same more or less with Linux on the desktop.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[rudy_wayne]

The price of Internet Explorer was never the real issue. What created anti-trust problems for Microsoft was telling computer manufacturers that they couldn't install any other browser on the computers they sold.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[unrtst]

Agreed, but more importantly (IMO), they aren't bundling Android with their "monopoly" produce of search.

Microsoft didn't just give IE away for free... they took their dominant position of OS distribution, and bundled in a free-as-in-beer IE, AND (initially) did not provide any way to remove it. They also provided major "incentives" (read; deterrents) to hardware distributors to encourage them to only ship Windows.

Google is not providing any additional incentives to handset makers who use Android. And many of those (ex. HTC) make just as many handsets that run other OS's, and push/market them equally. When Dell started selling some boxes with linux on them, it was only a couple, and they were underpowered; ditto for their no-os choices; and the price difference was not the equal of the cost of a Windows license.

Google's offering is also free-as-in-freedom, which IE was not. You can argue about v3.0 if you like, but it's not officially in distribution yet, and the source to IE was never free.

Also, when you go to google.com, you don't have to use Andoid, and it's not pushed on you either. A more comparative example - when a mobile user goes to google.com, they can still use the site just as well as if they came from Andoid. When a Netscape user went to Windows Update, it simply did not work - and still does not work - it requires IE.

Can some similarities be drawn? Yes. Fortunately, by doing so, it should be obvious that they are actually making the right decisions with how to distribute this product, as opposed to the many anti-competitive choices that Microsoft made.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[derGoldstein]

I'd have to look it up to be certain (and who has time for that?), but I think the main complaint is that they intentionally designed the browser to be inseparable from the OS's GUI. So not only was it bundled with Windows, it was also impossible to remove. But in those days I'm sure they didn't think twice about strong-arming manufacturers to keep other browsers out as well.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[derGoldstein]

While I agree that it doesn't make the phones cheaper, and that it's not in the hardware maker's best interest to allow upgrades (for the reasons you mentioned, as well as the added support required by users who have problems with the upgrade), Android itself is still free. You can use it on multiple platforms (architectures), and no one's forcing you to "hook it up" to Google. You can download the source code, you can use it without paying anyone, and you don't have to sign up for anything in order to do so. That means it's free.

You can make the argument that it ends up costing the end user who buys a smartphone, but that's a discussion about the smartphone market. Android is software, and it's free.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[93 Escort Wagon]

I'd have to look it up to be certain (and who has time for that?), but I think the main complaint is that they intentionally designed the browser to be inseparable from the OS's GUI. So not only was it bundled with Windows, it was also impossible to remove. But in those days I'm sure they didn't think twice about strong-arming manufacturers to keep other browsers out as well.

IIRC correctly there was additionally the complaint that Microsoft designed Windows to crash Netscape.

Basically there were all sorts of different ways Microsoft was (rightly) accused of anti-competitive behaviors. Pick and choose your favorite.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[postbigbang]

And it was a lie; it was removable and not intrinsic to the operation of the OS. Microsoft just *wanted* it that way after standing on the shoulders (and farting on the head) of Netscape.

The overall argument doesn't hold water. Free is fine. There are other Linux derivates on smartphones and tablets NOW with a similar price. Does Google do other evil stuff? Yeah, including not defending Android from litigation foisted on its OEMs.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[sjames]

Exactly. Google in no way forbids Samsung or HTC from installing iOS on other phones in their product line. OTOH, APPLE forbids that. Also MS retained all rights in IE, they just happened to set the price at free. Google has GPLed Android. The practical difference is that they can't wipe out the competition and then jack the price up to $1000/unit on the existing product.

This is nothing more than oxygen tank makers claiming that free air is an unfair infringement on their profits.

That or they're well aware that their behavior is just short of mustache twirling and they are trying to talk their way into a good night's sleep.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[HermMunster]

You cannot lend any credence to Thurott, he's a long time microsoft shill. He's also a proprietard that believes there is no room for free. That in and of itself is an indication of his fanboism.

Offering free in exchange for some other remuneration is at the heart of barter.

Microsoft's trial and subsequent conviction had little to do with free and everything to do with other practices stemming from favorable pricing policy that excluded competition from entering the market. It went like this: if you include other products besides ours you will lose your special pricing, which would in effect place their product out of reach of the consumer. If they sold a computer without their OS then they'd charged for a sale anyway.

It had nothing to do with free rather it was due to exclusionary practices. By then Netscape was free too

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[theVarangian]

Agreed, but more importantly (IMO), they aren't bundling Android with their "monopoly" produce of search. Microsoft didn't just give IE away for free... they took their dominant position of OS distribution, and bundled in a free-as-in-beer IE, AND (initially) did not provide any way to remove it. They also provided major "incentives" (read; deterrents) to hardware distributors to encourage them to only ship Windows

I don't really care if Google is doing exactly the same thing as Microsoft did back in the day. I don't care whether corporations are doing what they do out of a desire to be evil or not. If somebody becomes so dominant in some market segment that they have a 80-90% market share that company has become too big a player. Why did you put the word monopoly in scare quotes when referring to Google and the internet search business? The last time I looked Google had something like a 85% share of the internet search market. That sounds like a monopoly to me and monopoly is always bad. Microsoft has a similar dominance on the desktop computer OS market, which is also bad. I'm sure the all knowing, self-correcting and ever perfect free market will eventually sort this out. Unfortunately the all knowing, self-correcting and ever perfect free market seems to have a habit of taking it's own sweet time when it comes to taking down monopolies so I'll applaud any help the free market gets from competition/antitrust watchdogs or anybody else willing to light a fire under the monopolist's posteriors. I have made my own tiny contribution by making increasing use of Bing and other alternative search engines instead of Google. I generally don't like Microsoft but I like Google's search monopoly even less. I became a OS X/Linux user for the exact same reason vis-Ã-vis Microsoft's OS monopoly.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[Alex Zepeda]

Yes, but, for instance, Verizon sells Android phones with Bing preinstalled.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[Aighearach]

No, being inseparable was their defense.

The accusation was that they leveraged their windows monopoly to get an unfair advantage for their browser. They claimed it wasn't a separate software product.

What is missing in this case is google using the search dominance to assist android. They seem to just be claiming that since google makes a lot of money, spending that money is an unfair advantage. It just doesn't pass the laugh test.

If google was refusing to include iPhone in search results, for example, that would be equivalent to the MS case. Going from the MS case opinions, if google was putting iPhone results on the third page or something, even that would probably be okay. They're not prevented from getting any natural advantage from their monopoly, they're just not allowed to use it to de-facto prevent competition.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[Alex Zepeda]

Ah, but Android is free as in beer, and a poorly cobbled together one at that. Not free as in speech. Go ahead, buy a phone from a carrier and vendor combo that doesn't bundle a bunch of crapware. Then take what you can find from the Android source repository, build it, and see how it stacks up to what your phone came with. If you've got a Samsung phone good luck getting that kernel built. If you're using a phone with a Qualcomm MSM7xxx chipset, good luck getting the GPS working (well). If you're using that same Qualcomm chipset, the (GPL) bluetooth enabler that Google ships with simply doesn't work. Want to use that fancy Adreno GPU? Well, the FOSS driver that Qualcomm publishes is crap. If you're saying Android is free as in speech, you'd probably be pretty surprised at the number of proprietary binary blobs needed to get everything working the anywhere near as well as they did out of the box. Want to get "off-mode" charging working? More binary blobs. Thankfully HTC separates them out from the init daemon (LG does not).

Let's say you want to build on OSX, a supposedly supported platform. Want to run dexopt? You're SOL. Maybe you'd like to build on FreeBSD. You're SOL there too. Sure there's BSDroid, but Google won't officially acknowledge its presence because they don't want people thinking it's officially supported (despite being more feature complete than Google's NDK for OSX).

Sure, you could blame Qualcomm, LG, HTC, Broadcom, etc for being jerks. But at the end of the day a lot of their GPL'd bits end up in Google's distribution. And Google is already fiercely closed about letting third parties submit fixes. The only part of Android that's free as in speech is the kernel, and, really, if you've learned nothing from GNU/Linux, the kernel alone will only get you so far. You need the full ecosystem. Okay, there are some other GPL'd odds and ends, but it's generally done without any sort of documentation or support. On one hand, to some extent you CAN tinker with Android far more than iOS. On the other hand, you NEED to tinker with it to get anywhere near the same level of functionality. Free speech in name, not spirit.

Let's not talk about the marketplace and the bullshit half-baked copy protection, mm'kay?

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[icebraining]

Google Search is a much, much less dangerous monopoly than Windows is or ever was, because they don't really have a way of locking you in. The cost of switching search engines is close to zero, while the same can't be said for OSs, especially since they have exclusive and widely used applications like MS Office.

Google's dominance in the online advertisement market seems way more dangerous to me.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[GigaplexNZ]

and KDE entrenches Konqueror just as much

It does? Last I checked, I used KDE's own Dolphin file browser and the Chromium browser. Can't say I've ever used or even noticed Konqueror since KDE 4 came along.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[poetmatt]

Whoa, fud spreader and microsoft lover. Google didn't jump in right away to defend their OEM's - there's about a million reasons for that, and guess what? Now they are starting to jump in, and be a lot more vocal about it too.

Meanwhile, your post about removing IE is 100% and total bull shit. It was not until Microsoft was found guilty of antitrust, in that same lawsuit where the documents show that they deliberately tied it in to the core of the OS, that they decided to make a version of the OS where it could be removed. IN EUROPE, which was then later removed as an option from europe. The rest of us were told to get bent. To this day, you still cannot 100% remove the browser as there are still dependencies in the OS itself.

The overall argument about browser tying is fact, not invalid. the IE situation is not even close to the first time they have done things to prevent interoperability. and MS has a history of being anti-linux..

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[GigaplexNZ]

Google has GPLed Android

They used the Apache license for pre-3.0 and it's essentially closed source for 3.0. Their kernel modifications are about the only thing that they've GPLed.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[GigaplexNZ]

I think that could be a case of kdebase-apps being a meta package that depends on Konqueror just to make sure it gets installed.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[mug funky]

you had to pay extra for the OS on your iPhone? really?

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[Q-Hack!]

No, GP is correct. There were 'complaints' that Microsoft designed Windows to crash Netscape. Back in the late 90's, there were three security patches in a row that caused Netscape to crash. While there was no proof that Microsoft was doing it on purpose, that didn't stop the accusations.

Those of us, non-conspiracy theorist, just chalked it up to the poor documentation provided by Microsoft on their ever changing system API's.

 

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[Zontar The Mindless]

Except IE could be removed... and KDE entrenches Konqueror just as much, and nobody (even open source geeks) seems to take issue with that.

KDE isn't a standalone OS.

You were saying...?

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[MrMatto]

and the only reason for that is because it's free. It's certainly not due to quality.

I don't think users are only buying Android phones because they are less expensive (if that's even the case). I bet many of them genuinely enjoy the Android experience.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[exomondo]

Sounds exactly like what Google's trying to do but failing to since the iPhone is still by far the most profitable smartphone out there.

Not really, google doesn't care about the profitability of smartphones at all, all they care about is the advertising revenue generated by the platform. The profitability of the phone is irrelevant, what they want is marketshare, more eyes on ads, that's what makes them money and given their marketshare they are winning at that game.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[Patch86]

And Apple sells iPhones with iTunes & Safari pre-installed, and Microsoft sell Windows phones with Bing search tools and probably some mobile form of IE. What's your point?

On an Android phone, I can install many different browsers (as many as anyone could care to programme). I can use Bing on it, and if Apple wanted to release an iTunes product (I don't know if they have), I'd be able to use that too.

What we're talking about here is Google funding their software with a non-standard funding model (that is, using mobile advertising revenue rather than point-of-sale prices). There's nothing stopping the others companies doing the same (not least Apple, who we're told time and time again by their fans that they're slaughtering the competition in terms of market share, or Nokia, who were number one in market share for a very long time). They're all just complaining that their business model is being trumped by someone else's business model, and they want the law of the land to fix it for them- which is not what the law of the land is for.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[Alistair Hutton]

It's in the EULA. It is forbiden to install OSX on non-apple hardware.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSx86

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[grahamm]

Linux is free and Windows has to be paid for. So using this same argument, Linux should be the dominant PC Operating System, but it is not - Windows is. Therefore being free cannot be the only reason an OS is the dominant one.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[hey!]

You're not incorrect, but you are missing the point.

What's at issue isn't whether primary monopoly (desktop OS or search) is legally obtained. What's at issue is whether once obtained that monopoly is used to gain monopolies in other markets.

The issue with the browser isn't primarily the price; it isn't even really whether or not IE was an intrinsic and inseparable part of Windows. The issue in the Microsoft/Netscape case is whether MS used its desktop monopoly power to take control of the market Netscape was in. There's documentary evidence that this was Microsoft's intent.

So the analogy's validity hinges on this question: did Google use its search engine monopoly to enter the mobile OS market or eject other players from that market?

I think the answer is no. Google doesn't prevent other mobile OS's such as iOS from using Google services, and the APIs for Google services are open and documented. Google search is the primary search engine on my iPod touch, and GMail, Google Maps and Google Earth all work fine on it. Nor are users of Android devices tied to Google services. One of the hallmarks of Android's architecture is how easy it is to replace built-in services like contact management. It is possible that some handset makers may be tied to Google's services contractually as part of an Android co-marketing or technical support agreement, but if they don't want Android they aren't barred from Google's search. And if they wanted to go their own way entirely, say make a Microsoft service-centric Android phone without Google help, they could, although they'd have to stay clear of using any Google trademarks.

Having a monopoly in one area does restrict you in others, but not to the point where you have to price and package your products to suit your competitors. It just means you can't use that monopoly to bar access to the market to your competitors.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[Toonol]

People buy garbage because it's cheaper, and it's cheaper because it's garbage. Those people are the lemmings.

The worst lemming of them all is the one who buys expensive garbage because it's expensive.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[nevermore94]

Apple has not released iTunes for Android, nor do they currently intended to. I think this is where they are making a huge mistake. They are so focused on making iTunes an exclusive feature of the iPhone that they are missing out on all of the revenue that they could be generating if they also made an Android version. It is no different than making a Windows version of iTunes as well as a Mac version. Where do you think iTunes would be if they had left it only available on Macs? So, now I buy my music from the Amazon MP3 Store and I have not bought anything from my Windows iTunes since getting an Android phone. One more customer lost and a lot of song purchases.

Re:This is why we can't have anything nice

[tlhIngan]

Google has GPLed Android.

Incorrect. Android's license is GPL (Linux kernel ONLY) and Apache (everything else).

In addition, it's also available in a COMMERCIAL license.

Yes, there are two Androids. The one you get with your phone you buy is the commercially licensed one, access given only to OHA members (who get early access to the next software). The Apache-licensed one is AOSP (Android Open Source Project). Periodically Google opens the code and relicenses it to Apache, usually when a new version is released (i.e., when the premiering phone is released).

Google currently only licenses the "with Google" stuff (market, youtube, gmail apps) to commercial licensors under commercial terms. It's also how Google's enforcing new handset policies like support for 18 months and things like that (which they can't do if OEMs and ODMs use the open-source version). And for all we know, the manufacturers may be paying a fee for it - at the very minimum, the annual fee to be in the OHA.

Giving away, not bundling

[Superken7]

I assume that the author quoted in the summary refers to Internet Explorer, which was bundled and forced down the user's throats, as you could not even uninstall it or the Operating System would stop working.

How can this be compared to Android, which is just an open source project? CHOICE remains, as far as I know.

Re:Giving away, not bundling

[unrtst]

Chrome is an entirely different case, and you would have a very valid point if they had a majority position they could abuse. MS abused their (near) monopoly position in more ways than just including IE, but that was certainly one of them.

Also, you CAN replace the default browser on Android with another browser. There was never a case for removing the HTML rendering engine that Windows used internally for stuff like their help system and file browser... the problem had multiple parts which made it bad:
* you couldn't remove IE the browser
* It was forced on the user by abuse of their monopoly position in OS's
* they made it difficult to switch default browsers
* some OS tasks still rely on the IE browser (ex. windows upgrade)

I don't know if you can remove the browser component from Android, but the rest of those points do not exist on Android. And, you get free-as-in-speech browser and OS as well, so you can remove or modify it yourself (and handset manufacturers do modify it - something Microsoft did not allow distributors to do to Windows).

Gee, another Microsoft shill

[HBI]

Haven't we seen enough of these paid shills over the years to understand their point of view? They get paid money by Microsoft to influence opinion so that Microsoft can sell more stuff. They are corrupted by the money, so it isn't an honest opinion. Therefore, why pay attention?

I suppose some variety from the usual Florian dreck is nice, though.

Re:Gee, another Microsoft shill

[Haedrian]

"win super site . com"
"Supersite for Windows"

Come now, this website sounds very reputable and not at all biased on the side of Microsoft.

"Free?"

[BeaverCleaver]

Isn't this a free-as-in-beer vs. free-as-in-speech argument? I may be way off-beam here but I think Android is open source and IE isn't. So no, this would be nothing like the MS antitrust case.

Re:"Free?"

[geekoid]

No, he is correct, it is open:

http://groups.google.com/group/android-building/browse_thread/thread/6a3b3a1c225a11f5/6410b44798c19d61?pli=1

try to stay up to date.

Re:"Free?"

[TheRaven64]

The free as in speech part is irrelevant. A company is generally not allowed to sell something at below the cost of production in order to drive its competition our of a market. Doing so is called dumping, and lots of companies have got into trouble for doing it in the past. Typically, the aim of dumping is to raise the price once there is less competition, but I don't think that's a required part of the definition. The difficulty is defining what the wholesale price of software should be. If Google makes money from the apps that are preinstalled on Android, then it's difficult to argue that they're selling it at below cost - they're selling it at a profit, they're just selling it to different people. Google is selling Android to advertisers, Microsoft is selling Windows Phone 7 to ODMs and Apple is selling iOS to hipsters. It's like claiming that TV is anticompetitive behaviour with respect to something like Netflix, because TV channels give away movies.

Obviously not the same

[hilather]

While Android may be free (if you exclude the price to use the android market) it is still very different from the Internet Explorer case. Internet Explorer is bundled with the Windows operating system, so its installed already whether you like it or not. Android is a choice by the manufacturer and a relatively cheaper choice then the competition. Manufacturers CHOOSE to use Android, and consumers CHOOSE to use Google for their search queries. Nobody is being forced into anything.

Re:Obviously not the same

[hilather]

You were never forced to use internet explorer.

But then what would I use after installation to download Firefox?

Terrible

[DanTheStone]

Thank you, Slashdot, for informing me of a website I never, ever, want to read again.

Re:Terrible

[derGoldstein]

Wikipedia isn't that bad...

Re:open source attack

[icannotthinkofaname]

Agreed. I'll believe these claims about Android being anti-competitive when those same accusers also declare intention to sue entities like Canonical, who also give away superior software for free on a regular basis.

Definitely not the same.

[lkcl]

google is using money that they receive for providing a valuable proprietary service based in part around free software to then fund free software development.

microsoft use the money they receive for providing technologically multi-man-century-backed proprietary products and services to further fund the development of technologically multi-man-century-backed proprietary products and services.

whilst i don't like much of what google is doing (including releasing software under the Apache2 Software License, and including restricting access to free software it develops and then dumping it on people, in bazaar-like "like it or lump it" fashion and in many cases overwhelming unfunded free software communities to pick up the dog's dinner mess that google's developers made in "secret, bazaar-like fashion") it is nothing compared to what microsoft is doing.

you literally cannot compare the two.

Re:Definitely not the same.

[thegarbz]

google is using money that they receive for providing a valuable proprietary service based in part around free software to then fund free software development.

...

you literally cannot compare the two.

And even if you could compare the two it is completely irrelevant. Anti-trust law does not take into account where the money comes from only the market factors in its distribution. Just because someone has a product that shits out cash does not mean they're not allowed to build something and give it away for free.

Apples and Oranges

[TWX]

Microsoft used their browser to try to lock in the market. They developed client-side CGI that only works in their browser and developed server-side software that works best with IE and uses those proprietary extensions.

Google does not engage in lock-in with Android; non-Android and non-Google browsers work with Google services essentially as well as the browsers they provide, and their browsers (both the Android-integrated browser and Chrome) work on competitors' services. I can use Yahoo or Bing or Mapquest or whatever just as well as I can use Google.

Google provides a lot of services. Internet search, Maps, E-mail, Productivity, Browser, Mobile OS, and the like, but they don't require one to use all. Certainly there's some question as to whether they're in a little hot water for providing links to their maps or other services through their search, but Yahoo and Bing do the same thing for that, so we'll see.

Re:At least one big difference

[Cwix]

It hasnt been released yet, but they claim to have plans to release it.

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/366604/google-we-ll-open-source-android-3-0-when-its-ready

Re:At least one big difference

[throbber]

Is it? I've been trying to find a recent source release for Android .....

I think the best you can say is that Android *was* open source.

you know, honycomb hit 3.2 already

[Lead Butthead]

and they're still stalling 3.0 source release.

Is Google Search a monopoly?

[chrb]

This entire proposal rests on the assumption that Google has a monopoly in search. Does it? The latest figures show Google Search has 63.6% of the market. What percentage of the desktop market did Microsoft have in the nineties when it decided to tie Windows and IE together (in violation of its 1994 settlement with the DOJ)? I'm sure it was at least 90%.. Apparently it was news in Dec 1998 when Windows marketshare dropped below 90% "for the first time"...

There's a big difference between Google's 63% and Microsoft's >90%.

Re:Is Google Search a monopoly?

[chrb]

Dec 1998

Correction: it was Dec 2008 when Windows market share dropped below 90% for the first time...

Re:Yes, And...

[Haedrian]

What do you mean yes?

How is Google using its search dominance to unfairly gain entry into mobile market? If I want to use Google's services on a symbian, iPhone, WP or whatever it still works. Google isn't forbidding competing mobile manufacturers from using its service, either.

Its using the MONEY it gains from one to fund the other. Big. Deal. Its one company.

Unlikely

[Mr. Underbridge]

It would seem to be a new legal theory regarding the nature of leveraging a monopoly. Presumably the notion is that the money earned from the monopoly is the leverage, not the monopoly per se. However, last I checked, Google doesn't have a monopoly on search.

If this were to pass the smell test, I imagine any sufficiently large company that has ever run a loss leader would be guilty.

Note I'm not a lawyer, I just like giving bad advice in general.

'anticompetitive'

[roman_mir]

In today's world there is only one meaning of the world 'anticompetitive', and it means: didn't pay the politicians enough to be left alone to do business as one sees fit.

So what if somebody is giving away free product? How about a free OS altogether? If they can do this and not go out of business, they should and consumers are the winners, not losers in this game. If the competition can't do anything about it, then it sucks for the competition. If the competition goes out of business because of it, it sucks for them. If eventually the company has to push prices above 0, this will just signal the market that there is a possibility to compete on non-zero price again.

Its not an unfair comparison entirely.

[pjr.cc]

However, what is a MUCH FAIRER comparison is the iphone and the apple app store. Want to use a different app store, sorry, your out of luck (relatively speaking). Andoird's open-ness is actually driving markets (amazon app store being an example of that) where Apple and iphone (or anyone else for that matter) are very actively trying to shut them down.

Its also not fair to say android is free. Open source, yes, but if you want to produce a phone thats useful, you need those (licensed) google apps.

Actually, calling andoird an open-source project itself is even erroneous, google have done a truely terrible job of keeping up with their "WE'RE ANDROID AND WE'RE OPEN SOURCE rah rah rah" moniker - still no AOSP for 3.x and we're up to 3.2 already - if there is one thing that'll make me depart the android shores for something else its that one huge chunk of, lets call it for what it is, lies that really do piss me off.

The reality is, google really have disappointed in the android open source project to the point where it should be called the "android, we'll maybe open-source it if we feel like it, yeah we know we call it open source, but its not really" project. And before anyone comments saying "android isnt licensed under the gpl" or some such a big reminder to you here. Google sold android to the community (as a concept) as an open-source platform - not a "here's some kernel drivers you might need for some irrelevant arm platforms" open source project. They have truly let the community down in this instance and for that they should be thoroughly ashamed. We're also not talking about the google market, maps, etc that google license, those are definitely closed-source and thats googles fair and just choice.

Re:Exactly

[thegarbz]

I don't think the article or summary writer actually know how anti-trust works. IE being free wasn't what caused the anti-trust case, it was the fact it was bundled to a product that was already considered a very strong monopoly in the market.

About the only thing that could make Android an anti-trust case is if advertisers were forced to use an android phone to create and administer their ads on Google's services.

Nonsense

[tknd]

It would only be anti-competitive if Google search was bundled and the ONLY search option provided. But that isn't the case as illustrated with Verizon Samsung Fascinate.

The phone does not use Google as its default search. And it doesn't utilize Yahoo! either. No, the Fascinate search engine defaults to Bing. Bing is used for the homescreen widget. It is defaulted to in the browser. It is present across the device... and there's no way to choose a different search engine. Like, you know -- Google. When we pressed Verizon reps about this, they let us know in no uncertain terms that the stock engine is Bing without a second choice.

Re:Android and rain

[phoenixwade]

Lets make collecting rain illegal.

It IS, in some western states, illegal to collect rainwater. http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/water/4314447

Shill

[srh2o]

Paul Thurott is an unabashed shill. Nothing to see here move along

Re:Internet Explorer

[TheRaven64]

IE6 was the version of IE released after the browser wars. IE 2 was useless - it came on my NT4 CD and crashed on startup on a clean install. IE3 was okay. I had it and Netscape installed, and usually preferred IE3. IE4 was bad, but not quite as bad as Netscape Communicator 4, which was just plain horrible. IE5 was what IE4 should have been, and Netscape was dead at this point. IE6 cleaned up IE5 a bit. And then we had a long wait for Mozilla to get into a useable state.

Re:At least one big difference

[derGoldstein]

This could actually make a dangerous precedent. If you give out free (as-in-beer) software, you're accused of dumping? So Flash, Acrobat Reader, anti-virus software, Quicktime, Paint.Net, and the Opera browser are all guilty? I really hope that if someone actually makes such a case, it'd be shot down instantly.

Wallace v IBM

[Pop69]

Shame there is already a precedent that makes his trolling totally irrelevant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_v._International_Business_Machines_Corp._et_al.

Bing too!

[kirkb]

If Android is anticompetitive, then Bing most certainly is. Microsoft entered online search and advertising for the sole purpose of using its OS monopoly and buckets of cash to deprive others (specifically Google) of revenue. Proof? Losing more than $8Billion over the past 6 years isn't "trying to get a foot-hold". It's dumping. It's bundling. It's taking a dump in the pool so that nobody can swim there anymore.

Re:At least one big difference

[jmauro]

You cannot be convicted of dumping if you charge more than the marginal cost of a product. In this case, the marginal cost to make another copy of the software is effectively $0.00. "Selling" it for free is a perfectly rational and legal thing to do.

Re:At least one big difference

[Cougar Town]

I don't disagree at all... however, those binaries don't come from Google, but from the phone manufacturers (at least to my understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong). This isn't much different than the binary nvidia drivers I use in Linux for my video card... although yes, there are open source alternatives (and different hardware) in that case, but using the binaries doesn't make the Linux distribution itself any less open source.

Also, there were pure Android Gingerbread builds available for phones such as the Nexus One, straight from AOSP, before any binary drivers were actually released... I didn't run any of those builds, as I understand there was some reduced functionality (which makes sense if a driver was missing)... but Android itself was still built and running from its pure open source release. I believe the reduced functionality was worked around by people like Cyanogen creating shims that could make use of the Froyo binary drivers in Gingerbread, though.

I guess what I'm saying is that you're completely correct, but I don't feel a company separate from Google choosing not to release their drivers for their proprietary hardware as open source means that Android itself is not still open source. I believe other Linux variants, such as OpenWrt for routers, have done similar things with Broadcom chipsets as well.

Again, please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this... this is just my understanding from my following of ASOP, CyanogenMod, xda-developers forums, and other sources. I'm certainly not claiming to be any kind of authority on the subject.

free Android with every Google search

[Locutus]

stupid ass comparison IMO. Windows is the monopoly and IE was forced on computer hardware vendors to include that with the operating system. There is no comparison with users making the choice to use Google search and the free/OSS Android version( minus Google apps and app store ).

LoB

The lie is so easy to detect it shows the shill

[SmallFurryCreature]

This is a shill article because the lie is so fucking obvious to detect. First of all, Android is made by the Open Handset Alliance. Google is of course a very major player in it same as Nokia was a major player in Symbian BUT it is called an alliance for a reason. Google doesn't work on it alone.

Second, and this is the big whopper. Where do you think MS gets the money from to fund WM7? If it had to charge full market price the handsets would cost a fortune because it would have to pay for ALL the losses of all the previous windows mobile versions. The constant rename campaigns alone would set you back a hundred bucks per license.

MS is using its monopoly on the desktop and office software market to fund its other operations, from the original x-box (which was economically a dismall failure) to MS phone software which so far has NOT had the kind of sales to pay for its own development costs.

And Apple? Same deal, no upstart company could have done the iPod whose profits were used to then launch the iPhone and then the iPad. The major advantage Apple always had over smaller players is that thanks to its massive reserves it could place orders so large that it got discounts nobody else gets making their players cheaper by comparison (MB for MB).

So basically Google and a LOT of other players pooled their resources to create a product they could all benefit from and made it available for "free". So? MS used its monopoly resources to create a product nobody else can use for free. Apple used it fast wealth to create a product nobody else can use or even create gadgets for without paying them and they often just refuse to license stuff.

Who is being the bad guy again? Oh of course, Google for being less evil. What people forget about Googles "Don't be evil" slogan is that doesn't say "Be good" it just means don't be as evil as the rest... and in American Business, that is a pretty low standard.

And ?

[unity100]

are any of the competitors prevented from doing ANYthing with android ?

no.

case closed.

noone has to endure higher prices because a bastardly private corporation wants to push its proprietary shit on customers from the price the want.

Re:Canonical is not American

[Klync]

Actually, Canonical is registered in the Isle of Man, a Crown Dependency off the British coast. It's a tax and legal haven from the civilized world, although its head of state is still the Queen of England. This has always been one of the things that's bugged me most about Shuttleworth's operation.

Free!!??

[DarthVain]

It's these Android commies that are ruining our capitalist paradise!