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CERN Physicist Says Dark Matter May Be an Illusion

anonymousNR writes "A CERN physicist has a new theory explaining the rotational curves of galaxies. 'The key message of my paper is that dark matter may not exist and that phenomena attributed to dark matter may be explained by the gravitational polarization of the quantum vacuum,' Hajdukovic told PhysOrg.com. 'The future experiments and observations will reveal if my results are only (surprising) numerical coincidences or an embryo of a new scientific revolution.' Given the many theories around explaining various observations in recent times, there seems to be a breakthrough on its way in our understanding of the cosmos."

16 of 379 comments (clear)

  1. no dark matter... by ak_hepcat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I hope so. Dark matter is the ugliest kludge to the standard model ever.

    It's worse than the Plus upgrade for Windows 98.

    --
    Support FSF: Stop thinking with your wallet, and think with your imagination. (cc/non-commercial)
    1. Re:no dark matter... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Scientists SHOULD BE convinced otherwise when evidence becomes available, and 8/10 times base their assumptions on factual information. Religions do both to a much lesser extent.

      Fixed.

      There are plenty of scientists out there with pet theories that they will fight for to the bitter end.

    2. Re:no dark matter... by Antisyzygy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Uhh, well. Scientists never actually claim to "know" the truth about anything completely, they just claim to know "an approximation of the truth" which is a theory or axiom that has been tested and shown to work in every case its been tested in so far. People still continue to test it and find it works. GPS satellites would not work if Relativity was not mostly correct. Don't get confused with the word "approximation of truth", it doesn't mean its not correct to a degree. There is no absolute right and absolute wrong.

      The principal of science is that you seek truth through observable, repeatable experiments. We know gravity exists on Earth because every time we throw a rock in the air it falls back to the ground. If one day, it did not fall back to the ground, or it fell to the ground 50 percent of the time and the other 50 percent of the time it flew off into space; we would probably not believe gravity existed and instead either have worked on or be working on other explanations. For example, Relativity has passed just about every test its been put through except for things on quantum scale or on super-massive scale. Does this mean it is wrong? No. It means that it is right in certain situations, but not in others. If you know anything about mathematics, which is totally based in rigorously proved logic that is basically irrefutable once its axioms and assumptions are cemented, you will realize that sometimes its possible to be correct within a certain degree or domain but incorrect beyond it.

      Its a bit different to claim many of the things religions claim. For example, claiming a flood wiped out all humans on Earth except for Noah, his sons, and all of their spouses along with two of each animal is ludicrous. The fossil record shows absolutely no evidence of this and a global flood poses other physical questions that have completely unfeasible explanations, and its been proven so if you actually read about scientific topics such as genetics, biology, anthropology, paleontology, and physics/geophysics/meteorology (particularly atmospheric pressure). They don't specifically say that the flood didn't happen, nor do they attack it. They just show certain timelines for fossils, or certain geological strata or certain physical relationships (in the form of equations) that make something like a global flood seem ridiculous. Maybe it happened on a smaller scale, but your will find its absurd to think it happened over the whole earth.

      You see, religions claim to "know" things and require absolutely no proof at all other than faith; which is belief without evidence. They won't admit when they are wrong even in the face of overwhelming evidence against their belief. That's not to say scientists don't believe things too and sometimes be stubborn about changing them, its just that religions don't believe things based on logic and evidence whatsoever. Even scientists are humans, and make errors sometimes. However, their training helps them remove illogical or absurd things from their minds rather than hold on to them when overwhelming evidence is put in their face. I don't think that religious fanatics are incapable of being as smart as scientists, I just think many of them are brainwashed or undereducated.

      Does all of this mean God doesn't exist? No. Its just that there is no evidence of them existing, nor is there necessarily a reason they must exist. I for one am not sure. I admit it is possible, but I have not seen evidence to support it nor do I see a theory that holds up when tested that shows there must be one. Some people choose to believe there is no God, some people believe there probably is, and some people simply don't know. Whatever you believe is what you believe, but please don't assume that scientists are out to get you, or make you change, or disprove god. By definition the existence of God couldn't be proved anyway, since even if we "found God", how do you know its not just a super-advanced alien being? Even if their is an afterlife you won't truly know if God exists because for all yo

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    3. Re:no dark matter... by elistan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm no cosmologist, but my understand is that there IS direct evidence of dark matter - in the way galaxies collide. Normal matter collides because it interacts through EM and hence slows down, while dark matter doesn't and doesn't. This can be seen by comparing X-ray imaging to map the normal matter and gravitational lensing to map the dark matter.

    4. Re:no dark matter... by niklask · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do you have a hard time stomaching neutrinos too? When they were first proposed they could not be detected. Still they solved the very real problem of explaining the beta-decay spectrum.

    5. Re:no dark matter... by IICV · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've long thought that the concept of dark matter was a manifestation of the inability of some scientists to admit "Hell, I don't know".

      ..what? Dark matter is, by definition, little bits of "hell, I don't know". Fuck, we don't even know if it's bits or bobs or particles or globs! We have no idea what it is at all!

      I mean, why do you think we call it "dark matter"? That is literally all we know about it - we know it has weak electromagnetic interactions (i.e, it's dark), but strong gravitational interactions (i.e, it's matter).

      The thing you really seem to object to is that scientists will say "Hell, I don't know - but I'll put a name on it, and start narrowing down what it can and cannot be".

      I mean, what do you expect? That we'll admit "hell, I don't know" and just stop? And just give up right there? Hell no - saying "I don't know" is the first step of doing science, not the last step!

    6. Re:no dark matter... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No one would have a problem with the notion of such a God. It's when the God of all space and time starts setting bushes on fire and demanding that people vote Republican that people start to call bullshit.

    7. Re:no dark matter... by haruchai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, but a new, untested theory doesn't automatically disprove an older, also untested theory just because it sounds more plausible or because you like it.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    8. Re:no dark matter... by Kjella · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Agreed. I have always had a hard time stomaching the theory that dark matter and dark energy exist. It seems far too much like aether, i.e. something made up to fill a gap in knowledge without much evidence backing it up.

      The problem is that the universe is pretty good at ignoring people's bowel movements, a lot of things are completely unintuitive. If I look at a wall it looks damn solid to me, my gut feeling would be that radio and wireless can't possibly work. And if you told me there are particles that'll pass through thousands of miles of earth and stone and lava without even caring that it's there, I'd say you were ready for a room with padded walls if only it wasn't true. In short, past experience has shown us that this is an area where the universe has a habit of not acting the way people expect.

      That said, we do know our understanding of gravity is incomplete at the quantum level, we probably will get a better understanding of it as we go along. But the unexplained gravitational effect seems variable, lumped together just like real matter and not always directly in proportion to it. I could accept that we might have had to adjust gravity by some sort of factor but it seems a bit too erratic to be just a formula adjustment. I at least am pretty confident that we've not found all the particles yet and that this will be at least part of the explanation.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  2. Re:Yay for phlogiston and aether by Interoperable · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hopefully. Dark matter is a very inelegant solution to observations that don't agree with theory. Even so, working out what properties it must have, should it exist, is a useful exercise because it clarifies the problem more thoroughly.

    There seems to be a common misconception that incorrect theories were stupid ideas from the get-go. That's really not the case, until new evidence or new ideas come up the incorrect theories are every bit as valid as the ones that may turn out to be correct and the differences between the various competing theories may point the way to interesting new experiments.

    This new theory is probably wrong, but it's founded on an assumption that, while not currently accepted as true, is experimentally verifiable. That's the assumption that anti-matter and matter have gravitation fields of opposite sign. An experiment to determined the truth of that would be very interesting.

    --
    So if this is the future...where's my jet pack?
  3. TFA by mojo-raisin · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here's a link to the actual PDF (arxiv version) and not the pay version

    http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1106/1106.0847.pdf

  4. Re:Something is fishy by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 4, Informative

    Electromagnetism is stronger than gravity. Given that the particles in question also have the opposite charge, and are therefore attracted electromagnetically, it wouldn't make a major difference to them.

    --
    'Sensible' is a curse word.
  5. Re:Can't see the quantum vacuum for the dark matte by Goaway · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What really surprises me is, despite this, so many physicists have jumped on the bandwagon.

    This is because it is the simplest theory which fits available data. There are simpler theories, but they do not fit available data, and thus are of little value.

    Average Slashdotters have been more skeptical of they dark matter theory than physicists, from what I've seen.

    This is because average Slashdotters do not have even the beginnings of a clue about astrophysics, but think they are expert at every subject they ever heard mentioned on the internet.

  6. Re:Can't see the quantum vacuum for the dark matte by bertok · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is because it is the simplest theory which fits available data.

    But it doesn't fit the data -- the dark matter theory is constantly being revised. First it's "90%" of the mass of the universe, then it's "70%", then we're back to "98%", then there's dark energy, then the fractions change again, and again, and again.

    That's not a fit! It's not like we started at, say, 80%, then refined the fit to 82.5%, then an additional data helped us narrow it down to 82.515%, and so on. It's just jumping all over the place.

    Secondly, it's not "fitting to the data", it's fitting to the difference between a theory and the data. There's a huge difference. And it's particularly galling that the "theory" used is Newtonian gravity, when it's been known to be wrong for a century! Several papers have been released that show that it's possible to make the need for dark matter vanish by using relativistic mechanics. Not exactly surprising that the "difference" is affected by the theory chosen!

    Every research paper about dark matter reads something like "we use a simplified theory of gravity because of [excuse], and then oh look, we find that our hugely simplified model doesn't agree with observations, so clearly there's an invisible something out there". The excuses vary between: "The other paper did it too", "Relativistic equations are hard, and I'm lazy", "I don't understand relativity so I don't know how it could possibly apply to galaxy sized masses thousands of light years in size", and "my computer is too slow to do this properly".

    This is because average Slashdotters do not have even the beginnings of a clue about astrophysics

    Yeah, well, I studied Physics at a university level, and I think dark matter smacks of hubris, laziness, and weak logic. It sounds an awful lot like chasing the error terms in Epicycles a century too late.

    The latest attempts to explain dark matter are an ever bigger joke, like Modified Newtonian dynamics. Here's a hint... we already have a "modified" theory for motion -- it's called relativistic dynamics!

    Until some physicist demonstrates that dark matter is still required to explain measurements when the theory used is the full general relativistic model with speed of light delay included, I'm just going to automatically assume that dark matter is bullshit.

    This kind of thinking is all too common in Physics. A classic example is the double-slit experiment. Every textbook states a formula for the spacing of the interference fringes that disregards a bunch of things, handwaving them away as "unimportant". A math-geek friend of mine in my physics class was upset by this lack of rigor, walked up to the whiteboard, and demonstrated that the simplifications can result in errors as large as ten percent or more in real-world scenarios!

    Imagine someone basing a new theory of light based on the difference between observed interference fringe spacing and the simplified theory. That would be stupid, wouldn't it? Why is it then acceptable for gravity?

  7. Dark Matter is *not* like the luminiferous aether by rknop · · Score: 4, Informative

    Dark Matter is not like the luminiferous aether.

    The luminiferous aether is a substance that was invented to explain something that seemed missing from our theories (specifically, what it is that the speed of electromagnetic waves given by Maxwell's Equations is relative to). It made predictions, those predictions were tested, and so the idea was tossed out.

    Dark Matter is a substance that was explained something that seemed missing from galaxies and clusters of galaxies (specifically, there wasn't enough mass there to explain why they held together given how fast things were moving). The idea of Dark Matter made predictions, those predictions were tested, and they *confirmed* Dark Matter.

    There's nothing magic about Dark Matter. And the lines of evidence are more than just some equations that don't balance out.

    More here: http://365daysofastronomy.org/2010/06/26/june-26th-dark-matter-not-like-the-luminiferous-ether/

  8. Re:Can't see the quantum vacuum for the dark matte by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is because it is the simplest theory which fits available data.

    But it doesn't fit the data

    Well, I am a physicist (doing my PHD, although not in astrophysics), and I can tell you that it certainly looks like the simplest theory that fits the data. I highly recommend Ethan's blog, who explains this very well, particularly http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2011/03/good_ideas_bad_ideas_mond_and.php and
    http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2009/09/dark_matter_part_i_how_much_ma.php. Notice, also, that theory predicts that the percentage of darks matter and energy changed during the history of our universe.

    Of course, the theory is not complete, and there should be further experimental confirmation, but it looks pretty good for now.

    This kind of thinking is all too common in Physics. A classic example is the double-slit experiment. Every textbook states a formula for the spacing of the interference fringes that disregards a bunch of things, handwaving them away as "unimportant". A math-geek friend of mine in my physics class was upset by this lack of rigor, walked up to the whiteboard, and demonstrated that the simplifications can result in errors as large as ten percent or more in real-world scenarios!

    Imagine someone basing a new theory of light based on the difference between observed interference fringe spacing and the simplified theory. That would be stupid, wouldn't it? Why is it then acceptable for gravity?

    Well, I work in optics, and I have no clue what you are talking about here... Is it because the usual derivation uses tan(alpha) ~ sin(alpha) ~ alpha? Or because it disregards the polarization of light? I can assure you that both of those approximations are very good "in most cases". But that doesn't mean you can't use the correct formulas, if needed. More likely, your teacher was oversimplifying the problem to get accross the most important concepts without his students being drowned by little details.

    But much, much more importantly, physicists know that arriving to the simplest model that explains all your experimental data is very important, because it lets you understand what's going on, instead of just making blind calculations. I can assure you that this is not an easy skill to learn, specially for math-loving students who are irritated by approximations (I know this from first-hand experience!).