Slashdot Mirror


Microsoft Exec Responds To the Google-Motorola Deal

adeelarshad82 writes "In a statement released yesterday, Microsoft's Windows Phone Division President Andy Lees said 'Investing in a broad and truly open mobile ecosystem is important for the industry and consumers alike, and Windows Phone is now the only platform that does so with equal opportunity for all partners.' What's interesting is that even though some analysts are actually expecting OEMs to switch their focus to Windows Phone 7, past sales figures (especially for Samsung) show that the decision to do so might not come easily."

35 of 293 comments (clear)

  1. Analyst can chime all they wish. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I mean, android is what 47% of smartphones, and Microsoft Windows 7 around 2%.

    Keep on wishing bitches!

    1. Re:Analyst can chime all they wish. by Nerdfest · · Score: 2

      I think they're hoping their latest round of patent abuse will push a manufacturer or two their way. Based on how Microsoft's previous 'partners' have fared, it will need to be a little stronger push.

    2. Re:Analyst can chime all they wish. by UnknowingFool · · Score: 3, Informative

      No all of Windows mobile is 2% which includes WM6. While MS may have sold more WP7 phones this year, it isn't matching the growth of Android and iPhone. Without looking at the split between WM6 and WP7, I would guess that many users of WM6 are not migrating to WP7 as WM6 users were mostly business while WP7 is mostly consumer.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    3. Re:Analyst can chime all they wish. by geoffrobinson · · Score: 2

      I don't expect Android to give much ground, but the reason for Android's growth is obvious. Cell phone companies needed something to compete with the iPhone and the Android OS was free. If they end up lagging behind Motorolla due to their special access, they may latch onto another OS.

      I don't envision it happening but crazier things have happened.

      --
      Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
    4. Re:Analyst can chime all they wish. by morcego · · Score: 2

      Most Android smartphones are cheap "smartphones" that can barely powerful enough to do the things you'd expect a smartphone to do. Android has the market cornered on junk phones. Also keep in mind that, with iPads and iPod touches counted, iOS greatly surpasses Android in total market share, and the iPhone is the top-selling smartphone as well as the most profitable.

      Also keep in mind that, with bicycles and oranges counted, Android greatly surpasses iPhone.

      It is totally possible the iPhone is the most profitable, but can you back your other claims somehow ? It being the top-selling and most android phones being "barely powerful enough to do the things you'd expect a smartphone to do" ?

      Until you back that somehow, all you did is make a faith based statement. Is Apple still a religion these days ?

      --
      morcego
    5. Re:Analyst can chime all they wish. by dwlovell · · Score: 2

      Incorrect, all of Windows smartphones is around 9-10%, it is projected that the WP7 portion is around 2%.

      From July 28th, 2011, showing all Windows Mobile + WP7 = 9% of smartphone market share
      http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/28/nielsen-android-leads-us-smartphone-market-with-39-percent-shar/

      From March 2011 showing all Windows Mobile + WP7 = 10% of smartphone market share
      http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/03/visualized-us-smartphone-market-share-by-manufacturer-and-plat/

    6. Re:Analyst can chime all they wish. by kurt555gs · · Score: 2

      I wish I had mod points for the parent! Also, Microsoft now controls Nokia, so the statement they made about Googorola is incorrect.

      --
      * Carthago Delenda Est *
    7. Re:Analyst can chime all they wish. by davester666 · · Score: 2

      How exactly is WP7 'equal' for all partners when they have already promised better access to Nokia for adding/changing the OS?

      And does everybody get a large cash payment for signing up for WP7 like Nokia did?

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
  2. Up is down, down is up, cats and dogs agree. by ThisIsSaei · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And Microsoft is lecturing the tech world about being open and free with software. I'm pretty sure that's one of the signs of apocalypse.

    1. Re:Up is down, down is up, cats and dogs agree. by Reapman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeah ok..
      Google: Honeycomb's release is delayed, please wait for Ice Cream. However until then our PHONE OS you can poke around in.
      MS: You want our Source Code? Are you SERIOUS?
      Apple: You want our Source Code? Are you SERIOUS?

      Yup, your right, Google is by far the least open of the 3 *rolls eyes*

  3. Everyone gets same deal as Nokia? by hawguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So when Microsoft says this:

    Windows Phone is now the only platform that does so with equal opportunity for all partners.'

    Does that mean that everyone gets billions of dollars from MS?

    http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2011/04/21/nokia-and-microsoft-deal-official-definitive-agreement-signed/

    As a result of the deal, Nokia will pay Microsoft royalties for the Windows Phone platform, starting only when the Finnish company launches its first Windows Phone devices. Microsoft has also agreed to make payments to Nokia “measured in the billions of dollars” for services but also intellectual property royalties.

    Or are we supposed to believe that MS would have paid for Nokia's IP even if Nokia hadn't switched to Windows Phone?

    1. Re:Everyone gets same deal as Nokia? by hawguy · · Score: 2

      What is your point? Nokia is their most valuable partner. That doesn't mean that Microsoft isn't supporting all of the hardware makers. Since partnering with Nokia they have also added ZTE, Fujitsu, and others. Clearly Nokia is their #1 partner, but Microsoft doesn't own them and Microsoft is not promoting Nokia as "the" WP7 to get. The internet is promoting Nokia as the WP7 phone to get, but so far Microsoft hasn't even show off a Nokia phone while has demoed new phones from Samsung, Fujitsu, etc...

      My point is that on the one hand, MS is claiming that they are the only vendor-neutral mobile phone software maker, but on the other hand, they are throwing billions of dollars at "their most valuable partner".

      That hardly sounds vendor neutral unless they do the same for every partner. Google has no reason to give special treatment to their new motorola division at the expense of their other hardware partners - they profit from getting more Android handsets out in the market, they aren't going to make a bundle of money from hardware sales.

    2. Re:Everyone gets same deal as Nokia? by JDG1980 · · Score: 2

      Razor-thin margins on PC hardware may be bad for OEMs, but they are good for consumers. And after seeing all the crap that both OEMs and phone carriers load up their systems with, I don't really have much sympathy for them.

    3. Re:Everyone gets same deal as Nokia? by DragonWriter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What is your point? Nokia is their most valuable partner. That doesn't mean that Microsoft isn't supporting all of the hardware makers.

      It does, however, mean that Microsoft's claim that, with Google acquiring Motorola Mobility, Windows Phone is the only remaining mobile platform where all hardware vendors are treated equally is false, or at least if it is true it is true only in the Animal Farm sense of "all vendors are treated equally, but some are treated more equally than others".

      Since partnering with Nokia they have also added ZTE, Fujitsu, and others.

      And Android is still owned by the Open Handset Alliance, which includes more device makers than just Motorola, more software vendors than just Google, and a bunch of wireless carriers, component manufacturers, and other firms in markets where Google doesn't play and isn't buying anyone at the moment.

    4. Re:Everyone gets same deal as Nokia? by kurt555gs · · Score: 2

      Don't kid yourself, Microsoft controls every move Nokia makes, without paying for them. It was the largest corporate robbery in history. See if you can get an N9? We wouldn't want the public to see Maemo with QT screen objects on a Smart Phone would we.

      Nokia is Microsoft's bitch. More even than Motorola will be after Google pays for them.

      --
      * Carthago Delenda Est *
  4. Equal Opportunity by nschubach · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I love how it's assumed that somehow the acquisition of Moto will make Android less open to the Android alliance members... I guess that's the normal tactic. Spread FUD.

    --
    Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
  5. Given how in bed MS and noikia are by Sir_Sri · · Score: 2

    Given how in bed MS and nokia are, I can't see the 3rd party manufacturers all that happy. This now means that the lead, and pure platform for Android will probably be a motorolo product, and google didn't just spend 12 billion dollars to only make prototypes. The Nexus one, nexus S and presumably now Nexus M will follow with the Nexus M2 or whatever.

    The MS nokia hookup is equally troublesome. Not that MS can't afford to lose what it has put into Nokia, but as Nokia continues to falter until there's a big new WP7 push it may fall to MS to open the wallet and keep them afloat. That puts other manufacturers in a bind. They don't want to put out something NokiaSoft* is going to obsolete in a heartbeat, and they don't want to find that Nokia sinks and MS abandons the WP7 platform.

    *I'm referring to the sub $1000 phone market. The > $1000/phone market is a whole other ball game. I doubt anyone else is going to jump headlong into the 20k/unit smartphone market the way nokia had been, but who knows.

  6. Like Microsoft cares by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Once they ran Palm into the dirt, they basically ignored Windows Mobile developers. Now that new competitors have arisen, they act like they care about the mobile segment. You can't poop on developers and expect them to put any faith in your platform again.

    That and Windows Mobile sucks as a mobile or embedded platform. My cable box is WM based and it sucks too!

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
  7. Not. by wsxyz · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's not true.

    Google is firmly committed to a vendor neutral policy with Android and the Motorola Mobility subsidiary will be firewalled off from Google and independently managed to ensure that stays true.

    In fact, Google would be happy to see their own investments obliterated by their handset competitors... eh, I mean partners... and their own handset division becoming a bottomless cash sink, as long as it helps advance the Android platform.

    So, Microsoft really needs to stop with the FUD and accept that Google really is an altruistic and idealistic organization that truly cares only about making life better for everyone.

    1. Re:Not. by bonch · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What a bunch of fanboy nonsense.

      Google isn't an "altruistic and idealistic organization that truly cares only about making life better for everyone." They're a multi-billion-dollar megacorp whose business is based on a closed-source search-and-advertising platform dependent on selling your personal data to advertising partners. They make sleazy non-neutral internet deals with vendors just to push Android. They withhold Android source from non-privileged partners and ship closed technology like Flash, AAC, and MP3 support in Chrome, even as they preach about openness. Android is a free product pumped into a new market to maintain the dominance of the core business and kill off competitors who can't afford to compete with an artificial price, the same way Internet Explorer was pumped into the browser market to kill off Netscape and keep the Windows platform relevant.

      The benevolent little tech company from ten years ago is long gone. In its place is a gigantic advertising conglomerate under investigation around the world for antitrust violations and privacy breaches. Google is another Microsoft and is no better.

      Microsoft still elicits a predictable reaction on Slashdot, repetition of the term "FUD" as if it automatically counters all arguments. And, as always, there will be mysterious Underrated moderations to such comments because Overrated/Underrated moderations aren't subject to meta-moderation, a loophole that Slashdot has left unclosed for years. I think what has happened to this community is that Reddit and Hacker News drew most of the more objective posters away, leaving the hardcore ideologues behind who automatically stand behind Google and automatically hate Microsoft, Apple, Sun, and anything else that competes with Google. Slashdot's overall position was always skewed by default, but there was actually a degree of objectivity that used to shine through in the comment sections. That very rarely occurs today.

      It's really quite fascinating that there isn't more outcry over the fact that a closed-source product from a corporation has become the gatekeeper for the web, but apparently, if you use Linux for your business, all is forgiven, and you are a pack of angels trying to make the world a better place rather than another scum-sucking corporation leveraging their monopoly to make a dollar.

    2. Re:Not. by TemporalBeing · · Score: 2

      Google isn't an "altruistic and idealistic organization that truly cares only about making life better for everyone." They're a multi-billion-dollar megacorp whose business is based on a closed-source search-and-advertising platform dependent on selling your personal data to advertising partners. They make sleazy non-neutral internet deals with vendors just to push Android. They withhold Android source from non-privileged partners and ship closed technology like Flash, AAC, and MP3 support in Chrome, even as they preach about openness. Android is a free product pumped into a new market to maintain the dominance of the core business and kill off competitors who can't afford to compete with an artificial price, the same way Internet Explorer was pumped into the browser market to kill off Netscape and keep the Windows platform relevant.

      Google is most often critized for the altruism of its ranks, and the optimism that it portrays in everything it does publicly. I'm not saying they don't have issues (what organization doesn't?) but they have certainly done a very good job of keeping to their motto of "Do No Evil".

      The benevolent little tech company from ten years ago is long gone. In its place is a gigantic advertising conglomerate under investigation around the world for antitrust violations and privacy breaches. Google is another Microsoft and is no better.

      Interesting you should bring that up...everyone one of those can be traced to Microsoft - either directly or indirectly; and every one of them will fail to find Google guilty of anything. The fact is that Microsoft can't stand that it was found guilty in both the US and EU of Antitrust violations and it wants to see all of its competitors - Apple, Google, IBM, etc - brought up on similar charges and found Guilty too. Thus far, nothing has stuck despite all the crap that Microsoft has shot into the fan.

      Microsoft still elicits a predictable reaction on Slashdot, repetition of the term "FUD" as if it automatically counters all arguments. And, as always, there will be mysterious Underrated moderations to such comments because Overrated/Underrated moderations aren't subject to meta-moderation, a loophole that Slashdot has left unclosed for years. I think what has happened to this community is that Reddit and Hacker News drew most of the more objective posters away, leaving the hardcore ideologues behind who automatically stand behind Google and automatically hate Microsoft, Apple, Sun, and anything else that competes with Google.

      Microsoft gets that reaction based on their own actions. There is little that comes out of Microsoft that is actually worthwhile, not based on some take over the world scheme, and useful to people in general. Outside of the firms paid by Microsoft to spew only Microsoft favoring news, everyone else has wised up to them. Even some of those paid firms are starting to wise up too.

      Slashdot's overall position was always skewed by default, but there was actually a degree of objectivity that used to shine through in the comment sections. That very rarely occurs today.

      I do agree that the objectivity in Slashdot has considerably declined.

      It's really quite fascinating that there isn't more outcry over the fact that a closed-source product from a corporation has become the gatekeeper for the web, but apparently, if you use Linux for your business, all is forgiven, and you are a pack of angels trying to make the world a better place rather than another scum-sucking corporation leveraging their monopoly to make a dollar.

      Google contributes quite a bit to the open source community. Yes, they may not publish everything they do for anyone to garnish - FLOSS principles do not guarantee, require, or want that. However, they also provide funding for many different FLOSS projects - whether hiring interns for the summer (

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    3. Re:Not. by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      Other phone vendors may view this (rightly) in terms of the lawsuits that Apple et al have been bringing against Google and view the acquisition purely on those terms. This acquisition didn't occur in a vacuum. So more than one interpretation is plausible. You don't have to jump to the most pessimistic option possible.

      It's certainly a perception that Google needs to manage though.

      The FUD here is more real here than the danger.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  8. Liars by pavon · · Score: 3, Informative

    Straight from their own mouth

    * Nokia will help drive and define the future of Windows Phone.
    * Nokia and Microsoft will closely collaborate on development, joint marketing initiatives and a shared development roadmap

    They are both in bed with a hardware manufacturer now, have both claimed it won't affect other licenses of the OS, and both have something to loose if they alienate the other OEMs.

  9. Poor Nokia suffered the Osborne effect by bogaboga · · Score: 3, Informative

    Poor Nokia suffered the Osborne Effect, whereby sales of current available products plummet after the announcement of un-available 'future' products.

    Things have changed a lot! In my little world, Microsoft is of no consequence, and that's a good thing. I will not touch Microsoft products (including NOKIA), as a matter of principal.

    1. Re:Poor Nokia suffered the Osborne effect by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, poor Nokia suffered the effect of taking MS's money.
      They kill everything they touch.

      Nokia had a good platform and good phone, they gave that away for a little bit of free money now at the expense of their future.

  10. Re:I'll bet they have an opinion by Ruzty · · Score: 2

    The word you're looking for is "dilute", the act of dilution. Words can't think so it would be difficult to "delude" them as I don't think they can have delusions.

    --
    The Master (Angelo Rossitto) in Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome, "Not shit, energy!"
  11. Re:Assholes by i_b_don · · Score: 2

    Seriously? The definition we all think as an "open ecosystem" is the PC. The opposite of an "open ecosystem" is the Apple Apps Store or locked down cell phones.

    All I have to say to MS is "show me". Words are cheap.

    d

    --
    all language nazi's will burne in heil!
  12. Windows Phone 7 Quality, Security, Reliability by DickBreath · · Score: 2

    Only Windows Phone 7 has the kind of Quality, Stability, Security, Reliability and Robustness that you have come to expect from the Microsoft name.


    (I'll pause for a moment so you can stop laughing.)


    Remember Windows Mobile?

    Sidekick / Danger?

    Windows Kin Phone?

    Remember Microsoft and Sendo? (You can google for it. I said google, not bing.)

    --

    I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
  13. Re:Seriously you guys... by NatasRevol · · Score: 4, Funny

    Or the ... wait for it ... MicroPhone.

    Sorry.

    --
    There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  14. Start the Pool by chill · · Score: 2

    Considering MS is second only to Apple in outright denials of things they're actively pursuing and ready to pull the trigger on, how long until Microsoft just outright buys Nokia?

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  15. Analysts are idiots by Tridus · · Score: 2

    This type of "analysis" is what you expect from Gardiner. It's nonsense. You're bang on. The fact of the matter is that there's consumer demand for Android, and there isn't for Windows Phone.

    The handset makers will go where the sales are and expecting them to pay Microsoft for a platform that people don't want over a free one that people do want is lunacy. It's not happening. This only changes if Microsoft can drum up some demand for WP7 hardware. Maybe Nokia can do that.

    --
    -- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
    1. Re:Analysts are idiots by oakgrove · · Score: 2

      How much do you jokes get paid to regurgitate the same talking points over and over ad nauseum?

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    2. Re:Analysts are idiots by DragonWriter · · Score: 2

      With the exception of a small minority of geeks, people buy Android because that's what the handset makers are using on the handsets, not because "The people demand their Android."

      Most smartphone handset makers have Windows and Android offerings and iOS, OTOH, does quite well with only one handset maker supporting it. So I don't think the facts support your claim that the success of Android is simply a factor of the number of handset makers supporting it compared to the alternatives.

      I think its much more likely that consumer perception (either of the OS itself or of the features of the phones that handset makers choose to put the OS on) is the main factor.

      You're correct that the handset makers will go where the sales are - if Motorola suddenly has favored status with Android releases at the expense of Samsung & HTC's sales

      Yes, and since Google's main interest with Android is as a gateway to Google's online services, that's exactly why Google won't kneecap non-Google handset manufacturers that way. There's no upside for them.

  16. That's installed base by pem · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Not current sales.

    And it's only in the US.

    Worldwide it's much grimmer for MS, but in the US it's pretty bad.

  17. Smartphone market dynamics by DragonWriter · · Score: 2

    First mover advantage. iPhone sales started 3 years before the first WP7 phone went on sale; Android phones went on sale 2 years before the first WP7 phone went on sale.

    Windows Phone 7 wasn't the first release of Microsoft's smartphone OS. Yeah, WP7 is newer than the iPhone, but the first smartphone-specific WinCE-based OS was Windows Smartphone 2002, which was 5 years before the iPhone. Now, Windows Smartphone 200x and Windows Mobile (after the PocketPC and Smartphone lines got a common branding) never were as popular as iPhone/iOS devices became as soon as the latter were available, but it has got nothing to do with "first mover" advantage, it has to do with customer perception of value, which Apple managed to generate where Microsoft hadn't (and still, for the most part, hasn't.)

    People aren't "demanding Android," they're saying "I really don't want to have to adjust to a whole new phone, buy a whole bunch of new apps, and set up a bunch of new stuff on my computer to manage things."

    That would explain a slowly degrading Android marketshare driven by upgrades with new users not particularly attracted to Android, it doesn't explain the reality of Android, and to a lesser extent iOS, continuing to have growing smartphone marketshare while RIM, Microsoft, and Symbian continue to lose ground. Those trends are explained by Android and iOS continuing to lead in the battle for customer-perceived value, not merely hanging on to users they already have because it is a pain to leave.