Notch Asks For Trial By Combat

Vrallis writes "As reported recently, Mojang AB, the creators of Minecraft, have been sued by Bethesda over the name of their latest project, Scrolls, citing a trademark infringement with their Elder Scrolls games. In his latest blog post, Notch, the founder of Mojang, has challenged Bethesda to a trial by combat. Specifically, a frag match in Quake 3."

Comments

Mods

[operagost]

I assume that, in the old dueling tradition, his opponent gets to choose the mod. I recommend INSTAGIB.

Re:Mods

[networkBoy]

Not at all.
See, Notch will lose, and have to turn the name Scrolls loose to Bethesda Studios.*
In the meantime he will have gained so much publicity that he could rename the game [to be] previously known as "Scrolls" to "Sacks of Donkey Poo" and people (those who matter) would buy it in a heartbeat.
-nB

*(sorry best I could do with the lose/loose issue)

Re:Mods

[Culture20]

And the people would call it Scrolls anyway, to the chagrin of Bethesda.

Re:Mods

[That Guy From Mrktng]

Now this is scary, does that mean that /. is full of active QL players? Will everyone ragequit just before the thread ends?

Win-win i guess?

[Daetrin]

If he actually gets them to agree to this then even if he loses it ought to generate enough publicity to make up for having to change the name.

Re:Win-win i guess?

[ArsonSmith]

He can then decide to call it "The Elder"

Someone's been watching too much Game of Thrones

[barlevg]

I do remember reading that, according to some interpretations, Trial by Combat *may indeed* be legal under the US legal system...

Re:Elder Scroll V sales dropping

[dyingtolive]

Eh? It's out? I'll have to keep an eye for it in the Steam $5.00 section in a few months hopefully. Bethesda hasn't made a game that impressed me (in a non graphics related fashion) since Morrowind. I actually was looking forward to Fallout 3, thinking to myself, "Well, all of Bethesda's other games are beautiful sprawling wastelands with little actual content in them, so maybe they'll get this right." Instead I got "OMG Daddy NO!".

As far as the Quake 3 challenge, it's genius. Awesome rebuttal to a overreaction from a zealous legal department, and turning it down will just make Bethesda look bad.

What a bunch of pricks.

[Beelzebud]

Bethesda really are being total assholes here. Suing a independent developer for the word "Scrolls"? Bethesda does not own that fucking word... If those corporate assholes actually agree to this I'll be totally shocked.

Re:What a bunch of pricks.

[billcopc]

Correction: Bethesda's lawyers are being total assholes here.

Nothing surprising, I'm sure most law firms reject any résumé that does not include "Being a stubborn asshole" in the first paragraph.

Re:What a bunch of pricks.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, unlike copyrights and patents, trademarks must always be fought for or they are lost.

Re:What a bunch of pricks.

[ThatsMyNick]

Correction: Bethesda's lawyers are being total assholes here.

Nope, they are just helping Bethesda defend their trademark (remember, if you dont defend it, you lose it, especially since Notch is also is also in the same gaming business).

Re:What a bunch of pricks.

[interkin3tic]

Not being a lawyer, I fail to see the value in staking out a word like "Scrolls" and saying "MINE! ONLY ME CAN USE WORD!!!"

The title of Notch's game doesn't contain the word "Elder." Are there other similarities I'm not aware of? How likely is it really that someone else would come along, make shovelware, slap an "Elder Scroll" title on it, and when challenged say "But they didn't sue that guy for using half the title, so they don't care!" If their lawyers are being too unrealistic and paranoid in "defending" the trademark, that would in fact qualify as being assholes.

Re:What a bunch of pricks.

[Barefoot Monkey]

Nope, they are just helping Bethesda defend their trademark (remember, if you dont defend it, you lose it, especially since Notch is also is also in the same gaming business).

They can't lose something that they have never had. Bethesda do not have "Scrolls" as a trademark for a computer game, and do not stand to lose "The Elder Scrolls" by doing nothing here. Furthermore, all Notch has done is apply for trademark on a name that he plans to use. There's nothing wrong with that - it's just diligence - and filing a suit about that is rather arbitrary. If Bethesda's representatives have an issue with that then they should just contest the application.

Re:Finish Minecraft

[dyingtolive]

Congrats, you're the reason why his lawyers made him stop guaranteeing free updates. Ass.

Re:What's more impressive?

[Vrallis]

Yeah, I'm a bit surprised. I think I submitted it less than three hours ago, too.

He challenged Idthesda to an Idthesda game

[tepples]

I assume that, in the old dueling tradition, his opponent gets to choose the mod.

According to the article, the sides alternate choosing levels. But seeing as Bethesda's parent company owns Id Software, three of Bethesda's best warriors might be people who actually developed Q3A. So in a sense, it already is on Bethesda's home turf.

Re:He challenged Idthesda to an Idthesda game

[PhrostyMcByte]

In my experience playing with coders and mappers: the people who make games are rarely star players.

Re:He challenged Idthesda to an Idthesda game

[Scrameustache]

If you want an employee that can play the game, you want a tester, not a developer.

Re:He challenged Idthesda to an Idthesda game

[Eraesr]

Testing game software rarely involves just playing the game.
If you want an employee that's good at playing the game, you want a gameplay designer. id Software has on more than one occasion worked together with professional Quake 3 players to create content that appeals to the wishes of the competitive player.

Re:He challenged Idthesda to an Idthesda game

[TheCarp]

And why would I listen to a head on a stick that talks backwards and I pelted with about 500 rockets?

Re:He challenged Idthesda to an Idthesda game

[snemarch]

Ah, those were the days <3

More information

[uigrad_2000]

Notch just got married this weekend, and is officially away right now, for his honeymoon. This lawsuit came up at a terrible time, and this is the way that Notch handles such stuff.

Notch seems to read and reply most to comments on the minecraft channel at reddit. The thread there would probably be the place to post if you want to volunteer as one of the representatives :)

Re:Bizzaro Response:

[SanityInAnarchy]

Why does Notch expect them to sell-out their morals and instincts for a few fleeting moments of fun and chance to be the bigger person over something they're making a bigger deal about than necessary?

Because if they accept, they get tons of good press, way more than the current bad press they're getting for suing over a single word. In fact, I'd imagine it would turn out better for them than if they'd never sued at all.

Quake 3, eh?

[EnglishTim]

So.... seeing as Bethesda and id Software are both now arms of Zenimax, can id Software employees be part of the Bethesda team?

Shoulda stuck with counter-strike, Notch!

Re:Someone's been watching too much Game of Throne

[uigrad_2000]

I do remember reading that, according to some interpretations, Trial by Combat *may indeed* be legal under the US legal system...

And there is a history of trademark disputes being settled this way.

Re:Finish Minecraft

[Mitchell314]

Uh, he's on a schedule. 1.8 is not scheduled for release until later this month IIRC. As a plugin dev for bukkit (a modded version of a MC server that handles plugins), I'm relieved that updates aren't jammed together. Updating also means downtime for many modded servers too.

Re:Finish Minecraft

[vranash]

Eh, just convert to MineTest and enjoy a multiplayer GPL'd version of Minecraft done in C++ with cross platform support for Windows, linux, and OSX :) It may not be finished, but at least anyone can go and wrench on it. Also shouldn't he have referred to it as a 'Trial of Refusal'?

Game Over

[TheRealGrogan]

If serious, he just screwed himself out of using the contested name. He just expressed his willingness to change it. So now, a judge knows that it's not crucial to the project to keep the name, if he would frivolously agree to changing it over the outcome of a video game match.

It's like this. Big bad greedy company wants your name, or your domain, or wants you to stop using it because it infringes on their trademark, or "dilutes their brand" or whatever buzzwords they use. You say you will change it if they pay you a million dollars. You probably just screwed yourself in court if they refuse, because it makes you look like a squatter.

Remember MikeRoweSoft.com? He might have had a leg to stand on because it was his name, and he was a software developer, but as soon as he attempted to extort money from Microsoft, his prospects of winning were shot. (If I recall correctly, he settled for some free gifts from MS)

But yeah, free publicity, anyway.

Re:Game Over

[gman003]

No. You are completely wrong on that - the law does not say anything about *needing* a trademark. In fact, the courts will probably look favorably on this attempt to settle out of court - showing a willingness to compromise is actually a bonus, not a strike against you.

There's only a few outcomes left, now, which will show who's in the right:
1) If Bethesda agrees, and both parties abide by the results, everyone saying this is a case of the legal department not being in touch with the rest of the company gets vindicated. Both companies end up looking like good guys, and everyone wins.
2) If Bethesda agrees, but the loser backs out of the deal, we know which one is the real scumbag. Bethesda might lose and press on the suit anyways (even though they just shot themselves in the foot by doing so - going back on arbitration is a big no-no), or Notch could lose and decide to keep the name. Either way, it ends up in court, and one side ends up looking like a five-star douchebag.
3) Bethesda refuses the challenge, but decides to give up on the suit "in the spirit of generosity". They end up looking very good, but also sort of schizo.
4) Bethesda refuses the challenge, but aim for an out-of-court settlement. This might even be just buying Mojang - I wouldn't be surprised if they secretly want to do this. Depending on the terms, which may be secret, they look either like thugs, slime, or genuinely nice guys who hired bad lawyers.
5) Bethesda refuses, and goes all the way to court. They end up looking sort of like dicks, especially if they then lose. I won't bet either way as to who would win - "Scrolls" is arguably too short to trademark, making both sides' claims invalid. Bethesda has more money, but Mojang is fighting under Swedish law, not American, giving them some advantages.

Re:Game Over

[F.Ultra]

Well the courts wouldn't make that stance at all. And I don't really understand why you would think that they would. Bethesda does not have the trademark to "Spells" regardless of what Notch might be willing to trade it for (unless he trades it of course). The case that you brought up is irrelevant since there never was a ruling or even an indication of a ruling. He probably settled since they promised to pay his legal fees, something that they wouldn't be forced to do if they lost the case so if he had won he would have to pay thousands of dollars in legal fees and he probably didn't think that the domain was worth it.

Re:Game Over

[TheRealGrogan]

(I didn't realize it would be in Sweden... it could be quite different. All bets are off)

But I was more thinking of:

6) Judge sternly rules to stop using the name Scrolls, and (not necessarily because) he doesn't like the court's time being wasted with frivolity. If he's willing to give up the name over the outcome of a video game, just give it up. I highly doubt the judge would identify with the chivalry and nobody is going to take that challenge seriously. It would be legally foolish for anyone on the complaining side to take it. Company executives would not allow that.

As for the actual name, I don't think it's too much of a stretch in the USA at least, for it to be associated with Zenimax/Bethesda's product. Disagree? I guess then, Windows is also too short to trademark since it has the same number of letters, and is also a common item. Try making even an unrelated software product named that. There's a reason they call it the X Window System, and not "X Windows" like we used to say back in the 90's. Or, let's see Pella make a slide show of their inventory and call it "The Windows Screensaver".

I was thinking of making a new game, it's a chess game. I think I'll call it Unbelievable Tournament. Surely, the word tournament should be safe? (Activision would of course crawl right up my ass and use my balls for a punching bag)

I'll bet that if I made an arena type shooter just named "Tournament" that they would do the same thing and they've got lots of money to use, to demonstrate how wrong I am. This is how these kinds of assholes think, and it's pretty sick.

Database software, and a web browser. Both were named Firebird, which is quite a common name for everything from mythological beasts, to cars. They don't have anything to do with each other except that they are both software. Someone had to change the name of their web browser so it didn't confuse those poor database users. (No, it didn't go to court either but the lawyers probably advised to change the name because of what would happen)

But really, I think Confusador (comment #37125280 above) is probably right, as are others saying similar things. He already knows he's going to give up the name and is having a bit of fun and publicity. (Good for him. Lots of respect for that, being a good sport about it)

We'll probably never know.

Re:A better name

[xhrit]

"Super Cool Really Original Leveling & Looting Simulator"

Re:Sounds very unprofessional

[Parafilmus]

He says he is serious, but unless there is something I am missing or Notch is an idiot he is not actually expecting them to agree.

Bethesda may not have anticipated the bad press that this affair is generating. Notch has offered them a face-saving way out. It would be wise of them to accept.

Re:Elder Scroll V sales dropping

[ifrag]

To be fair, I suppose perhaps my attitude might be colored by fanboyism of the original Fallouts. It just didn't have the same feel.

The fanboyism of the original fallouts really never ceases to amaze me. Maybe other people had a different experience with it, but some sections of the game crash so often that getting through any piece without some exception being thrown was grounds for immediate saving. I probably had something like 5 rolling save files devoted just to creeping my way through the mutant base, trying not to trigger any broken scripts. Yes, I'll admit there are good parts to the game, plotlines and story is great, but the experience as a whole actually leaves a lot to be desired in the state it was left in. A friend of mine actually managed to get completely stuck in fallout 2 due to a glitch in the boxing ring by filling up all his saves and the quest bugging out and not completing. So I guess it's really all about story, and crashes be damned I can load the save, as far as most people are concerned (unless you accidentally line up all saves behind a major bug).

And I'm not implying the newer Bethesda flavor is any better on that account. I had my fair share of bugs and crashes in Fallout 3. Stability was downright laughable until some patches arrived on the PC (although, I continued to crawl ahead anyway). I've actually only had a few problems so far in New Vegas where something has been downright broke. I've had Ed the robot get stuck inside terrain a few times, and same thing for a ghoul somewhere which was quest related, but it seems like the actual crashes have gone down. Maybe they just have a more graceful way of handling unexpected game states.

I just don't understand why people are so forgiving of major bugs in those games, same goes for Oblivion and all that. Kinda depressing to see such high profile titles with such terrible stability. Maybe I'm setting the bar too high, and some unwanted loading and replay is par for the course. Hopefully the new engine in Skyrim won't be so broken, but I have a lot harder time looking on a title favorably when it feels like I'm walking on broken glass the whole time, the slightest misstep could be disaster, better do another quick save just in-case. This is where I hope Bethesda can really benefit from having id software under their umbrella, because id has a great track record as far as stability goes.