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Notch Asks For Trial By Combat
Vrallis writes "As reported recently, Mojang AB, the creators of Minecraft, have been sued by Bethesda over the name of their latest project, Scrolls, citing a trademark infringement with their Elder Scrolls games. In his latest blog post, Notch, the founder of Mojang, has challenged Bethesda to a trial by combat. Specifically, a frag match in Quake 3."
I assume that, in the old dueling tradition, his opponent gets to choose the mod. I recommend INSTAGIB.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
If he actually gets them to agree to this then even if he loses it ought to generate enough publicity to make up for having to change the name.
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I do remember reading that, according to some interpretations, Trial by Combat *may indeed* be legal under the US legal system...
Eh? It's out? I'll have to keep an eye for it in the Steam $5.00 section in a few months hopefully. Bethesda hasn't made a game that impressed me (in a non graphics related fashion) since Morrowind. I actually was looking forward to Fallout 3, thinking to myself, "Well, all of Bethesda's other games are beautiful sprawling wastelands with little actual content in them, so maybe they'll get this right." Instead I got "OMG Daddy NO!".
As far as the Quake 3 challenge, it's genius. Awesome rebuttal to a overreaction from a zealous legal department, and turning it down will just make Bethesda look bad.
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I don't know what's more impressive, this article or the fact that it managed to make its way onto Slashdot the same day it was published.
Bethesda really are being total assholes here. Suing a independent developer for the word "Scrolls"? Bethesda does not own that fucking word... If those corporate assholes actually agree to this I'll be totally shocked.
Congrats, you're the reason why his lawyers made him stop guaranteeing free updates. Ass.
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I assume that, in the old dueling tradition, his opponent gets to choose the mod.
According to the article, the sides alternate choosing levels. But seeing as Bethesda's parent company owns Id Software, three of Bethesda's best warriors might be people who actually developed Q3A. So in a sense, it already is on Bethesda's home turf.
Notch just got married this weekend, and is officially away right now, for his honeymoon. This lawsuit came up at a terrible time, and this is the way that Notch handles such stuff.
Notch seems to read and reply most to comments on the minecraft channel at reddit. The thread there would probably be the place to post if you want to volunteer as one of the representatives :)
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I'm sure that's about as valid as other unusual laws that are, in theory, still on the books--can't play hopscotch on a Sunday, can't dress a donkey in a sundress in rainy weather, etc.
And of course he's been watching Game of Thrones... he even said that in his blog post!
(Off topic: This is probably the best book adaptation to film/tv I've ever seen, well beyond even Lord of the Rings or the Sci-Fi mini series version of Dune and Children of Dune. Those have been my yardsticks to measure other adaptations by for a while now. I do think that people who haven't read the books are at a serious disadvantage, though, as too much background is missing due to time constraints.)
Why does Notch expect them to sell-out their morals and instincts for a few fleeting moments of fun and chance to be the bigger person over something they're making a bigger deal about than necessary?
Because if they accept, they get tons of good press, way more than the current bad press they're getting for suing over a single word. In fact, I'd imagine it would turn out better for them than if they'd never sued at all.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
So.... seeing as Bethesda and id Software are both now arms of Zenimax, can id Software employees be part of the Bethesda team?
Shoulda stuck with counter-strike, Notch!
I do remember reading that, according to some interpretations, Trial by Combat *may indeed* be legal under the US legal system...
And there is a history of trademark disputes being settled this way.
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It's going to be disappointing, but I'll be getting it anyway.
From rlslog, of course.
Did you get a time frame on completion before you handed over the cash?
No? Well I guess you're a moron then.
Heck there's a release date even, why would you expect it sooner? Or expect anything in the meantime?
Uh, he's on a schedule. 1.8 is not scheduled for release until later this month IIRC. As a plugin dev for bukkit (a modded version of a MC server that handles plugins), I'm relieved that updates aren't jammed together. Updating also means downtime for many modded servers too.
I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
my brother, Fatal1ty.
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
Yeah, really, it would be a win for both companies. I'd bet money against Bethesda actually doing it though. It will prove whether the suits or the devs run the company though.
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If they agree to it in a well-written contract, it's absolutely legal. This is a civil suit we're talking about, after all, and the contract doesn't involve anything illegal AFAIK. (IANAL)
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
Eh, just convert to MineTest and enjoy a multiplayer GPL'd version of Minecraft done in C++ with cross platform support for Windows, linux, and OSX :)
It may not be finished, but at least anyone can go and wrench on it.
Also shouldn't he have referred to it as a 'Trial of Refusal'?
Indeed, when there are a bunch of a.b.c releases, the server I play on is largely unusable during the entire flurry of updates due to client/server version incompatibilities. I like frequent updates, but I don't like being unable to play.
BTW, Thanks for working on Bukkit.
They should pick custom avatars with Majong as James T. Kirk and Bethusda as the Green Lizard Man...
If this was an episode of Damages (awesome show) Patty Hugues would instruct her client, Bethesda, to stick to their guns and sue the guy for all he has. Mojang AB has basically admitted by asking for a sporting contest decision that they cannot win on a point of law. A judge would be flagrantly out of his or her depth to overlook that and even be a little perturbed by it.
All that said, it would be a great marketing campaign for both companies if they decided to do so. My guess is that Bethesda will take them up on their offer and have a live stream.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
It's crazy, it's almost as if there are some people who want companies to actually continue to make decent games for the PC or something.
Don't come whining to me when everything on the PC is a Free-To-Pay MMO.
I hate to have a fanboy reaction but, well, I already am. Please forgive me, I'll keep it civil.
Fallout 3 didn't have enough content? I spent well over a hundred hours playing that game, more time than I spent playing new vegas. And that was before the DLC. Maybe beautiful, wide open, sandbox style games just aren't for you. I'd also advise you to also stay away from minecraft, as the plot there can be said to be weak to nonexistent.
HAHAH! Aim bots? The map makes it trivial to snipe 40+% of the time.
If you want a better match, try blood run map.
Ideal solution is much like the Southwest vs Stevens Aviation trademark "trial by armwrestling".
Play up the match for tons of good PR and geek cred, play for charity plus the rights to the trademark, then whoever wins immediately grants unlimited rights to the trademark to the losing party.
Bethesda can say they defended their trademark, everyone gets good PR, charities get money, everyone is saved an expensive court case (that Bethesda probably can't win without spending loads of money on) and the world (via a bit of apparent insanity) becomes just a little more sane.
He says he is serious, but unless there is something I am missing or Notch is an idiot he is not actually expecting them to agree. Supposedly Bethesda have a financial reason for suing Notch and for a actual business to engage in basically a game of chance (Quake 3 is not a game of chance but pitting two unknown team against each other in it is) to determine if they will go ahead with the suit or drop it is just irresponsible. And assuming that they are a corporation beholden to look after the best interests of their shareholders most likely an illegal act to boot.
now i hate Bethesda as much as anybody for pulling such a stupid move and I would not dislike Notch solving a disagreement with a match of Quake 3 (and would think him even more cool for doing so), but if he actually thinks that there is a possibility that they will accept or of this is just a publicity stunt (the only two possibilities, well then I think he is being kind of stupid.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Over a hundred hours... wandering a beautiful sprawling wasteland with little actual content! I joke...
If serious, he just screwed himself out of using the contested name. He just expressed his willingness to change it. So now, a judge knows that it's not crucial to the project to keep the name, if he would frivolously agree to changing it over the outcome of a video game match.
It's like this. Big bad greedy company wants your name, or your domain, or wants you to stop using it because it infringes on their trademark, or "dilutes their brand" or whatever buzzwords they use. You say you will change it if they pay you a million dollars. You probably just screwed yourself in court if they refuse, because it makes you look like a squatter.
Remember MikeRoweSoft.com? He might have had a leg to stand on because it was his name, and he was a software developer, but as soon as he attempted to extort money from Microsoft, his prospects of winning were shot. (If I recall correctly, he settled for some free gifts from MS)
But yeah, free publicity, anyway.
Parent is trolling or joking or something, it's not out until 11/11
Parent was suggesting that people should plan on pirating Skyrim in retaliation for Bethesda/Zenimax's actions. Typical juvenile reaction.
Anyway, it isn't like Bethesda is trying to sue Notch into the ground. They are suing him to change the name of his upcoming (not released) game. I don't exactly agree with them, but I think that there is enough to their claim not to reject out of hand the notion that a fantasy-themed computer game called "Scrolls" could potentially cause some amount of confusion with a long-running series of fantasy-themed computer games called "Elder Scrolls".
Why not Quake Live? Has Notch completely forgotten about that? How does he know the lawyer scrub owns a legal copy of Quake III Arena?
Hope they don't play OpenAre-ah, forget it.
How would you feel if a slashdot mod emailed you saying they now have a web story called demon hunter, and you could no longer use demonbug as a result?
And it just so happens you posted several thousand times on that account and its what everybody knows you by, you don't see that as damaging?
Most logos/brandings/names are worth more than what your well-above average equity, so saying its not a big deal is :(
It is, and there's a lot of money involved in that name whether you can see it or not.
Congrats on figuring out my one-liner, I forget this is slashdot, where nothing is read below the surface text.
You definitely missed / forgot about Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion , i'd say i enjoyed it 90% of how much I enjoyed morrowind, which is easily one of my favorite games.
Oh, I love Minecraft because it's not trying to pretend to be something it's not. Perhaps I could have felt the same way about Fallout 3 if it wasn't a Fallout game. To be fair, I suppose perhaps my attitude might be colored by fanboyism of the original Fallouts. It just didn't have the same feel. The ending annoyed me. I still spent plenty of time playing it, but I feel like they built this giant world for you to explore, and then when developing character construction and advancement, didn't take into account the fact that you'd actually explore it.
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They could go the Prince route, and make the game "previously known as Scrolls".
I still think new vegas was dlc for 3 that grew out of proportion.
I'll prob still get fallout 4 (If they make it) Because I liked the game, but really hated the engine more then anything.
You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
No, he should call it "Roll of Parchment." Or maybe Super Cool Really Original... er, something Simulator. Quick! I need a word that starts with "L"!
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So the next new hire interview will involve a frag match? How do I apply?
On a side note, God I hate what lawyers did to our justice and legal system . . . .
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive
Yea, I hit up steam during sales, and end up with more games then I can reasonably play for around the same price as the latest blockbuster. Usually those games are last years blockbusters, so they run great on my computer built with last years hardware (Which is also easy on the wallet).
Why do you assume that game pirating is rampant? I know at least 4 PC gamers, who do something similar to what I do. I don't know any that torrent games unless they are trying to rid a game they bought of DRM. (Offtopic aside: Windows Live Gaming blows, if you developers continue to use it, I wont buy any of your games even if they are only a dollar on steam. I just wont play the damn things, there are plenty of great games for cheap that dont harrass me.)
You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
Nice straw man, don't mind this match...WHOOSH! Ooops, he all burned up. your argument MIGHT have merit if anybody including Bethesda actually called their game scroll anything, but they don't and they NEVER have. it has ALWAYS been Morrowind, Oblivion, Arena, etc. Hell look up some of their past ads, they have the name once at the top and then for the rest of the ad its called by the last name.
This is just as damned stupid as MSFT trying to claim the word WIndows for things other than OSes, or Apple trying to sue a grocery for having the logo of an apple. The only reason they are even being given ANY weight on thus dumb shit is because the US courts are so horribly broken that those with money usually win by default against those without. Still don't make it right or this shit not be dumb.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Notch does not have the funds to match Bethesda legal team.
I think they (both) might want to check with Steven Mancinelli. Notch's defense would run to "I can't be infringing on Bethesda's trademark, since this other trademark was plainly issued to the pertinent domain AND is more directly infringed if anyone is.
If you're going to have a trial, it should definitely be a trial by stone.
He should just rename it to "Ancient Tomes" and be done with it!
To be fair, I suppose perhaps my attitude might be colored by fanboyism of the original Fallouts. It just didn't have the same feel.
The fanboyism of the original fallouts really never ceases to amaze me. Maybe other people had a different experience with it, but some sections of the game crash so often that getting through any piece without some exception being thrown was grounds for immediate saving. I probably had something like 5 rolling save files devoted just to creeping my way through the mutant base, trying not to trigger any broken scripts. Yes, I'll admit there are good parts to the game, plotlines and story is great, but the experience as a whole actually leaves a lot to be desired in the state it was left in. A friend of mine actually managed to get completely stuck in fallout 2 due to a glitch in the boxing ring by filling up all his saves and the quest bugging out and not completing. So I guess it's really all about story, and crashes be damned I can load the save, as far as most people are concerned (unless you accidentally line up all saves behind a major bug).
And I'm not implying the newer Bethesda flavor is any better on that account. I had my fair share of bugs and crashes in Fallout 3. Stability was downright laughable until some patches arrived on the PC (although, I continued to crawl ahead anyway). I've actually only had a few problems so far in New Vegas where something has been downright broke. I've had Ed the robot get stuck inside terrain a few times, and same thing for a ghoul somewhere which was quest related, but it seems like the actual crashes have gone down. Maybe they just have a more graceful way of handling unexpected game states.
I just don't understand why people are so forgiving of major bugs in those games, same goes for Oblivion and all that. Kinda depressing to see such high profile titles with such terrible stability. Maybe I'm setting the bar too high, and some unwanted loading and replay is par for the course. Hopefully the new engine in Skyrim won't be so broken, but I have a lot harder time looking on a title favorably when it feels like I'm walking on broken glass the whole time, the slightest misstep could be disaster, better do another quick save just in-case. This is where I hope Bethesda can really benefit from having id software under their umbrella, because id has a great track record as far as stability goes.
Fear is the mind killer.
I hit a few bugs in the original Fallouts, sure, but I think Fallout 3 was far more glitchy for me. I also really liked Ultima 7, in spite of the fact that sneezing in real life at an unexpected time would result in a unwinnable situation. If the game is good enough, I will be more willing to overlook that it's glitchy. Broken scripts are annoying, but at least you can usually save in preparation for them. Spots on the terrain you can get trapped inside of with no way to escape (Fallout 3) is not.
Did your friend have the patch for Fallout 2? I'm pretty sure that resolved the boxing ring issue, though I'm not 100% sure.
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I remember as a kid/teen reading the trademarks Mortal Kombat and thought Scorpion was just stupid. So nobody can call have a character called that? (Would anybody want something so unoriginal anyways).
Atlas Shrugged : Thematic Story
Minecraft isn't finished? Amidst the exploration of the fantastic structures created across thousands of servers, and the investigations of the wealth of possibilities of the engine and gameplay, I really hadn't noticed.
So I'm going to get more out of this for my 15 bucks. Best 15 bucks I ever spent.
May the Maths Be with you!
I'm usually not this low-brow, but I'd like to give Bethesda a roll of toilet paper, which is the trophy for winning Ass-Wipe of the Year. And if you think about it, toilet paper is rolled like scrolls are, so sue me too, ass-wipes.
No he didnt, Morrowind was vastly superior to oblivion. In fact i recently played through morrowind again, for like the millionth time. The only fun I have in oblivion is the complex hassles of installing huge mods like FCOM :p Oblivion just feels like boring english countryside, theres no life to it at all, its like i just strolled down the road into the fields. Morrowind felt wierd, alien. Had an insanely good atomsphere. Morrowind also didnt have the insane stupid level creatures lists. That was the biggest killer of the game for me. At high levels even crappy random road bandits are wandering around in full ebony gear and shit? wtf. You could fix all this stuff with mods of course, but that is not the point. Shivering Isles captured some of what morrowind was at least. They have said they are gonna try get some of that old feel back into skyrim.
"The space elevator will be built about 50 years after everyone stops laughing." - Arthur C. Clarke ~1980
>>Hopefully the new engine in Skyrim won't be so broken
Oh, your optimism is refreshing.
Bethesda makes great, buggy, games.
As much crap as Obsidian took for New Vegas, it was probably the least buggy of all the giant-sandbox RPGs made/published by Bethesda since they founded.
I couldn't even get off the boat in Redguard. What boat? Oh, the one you START ON. Shortest game ever.
the fact that fallout 3 didn't have the same feel as the predecessors is exactly why i liked it so much. to each his own, c'est la vie.
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