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Samsung Tablet Ban Lifted For Most of EU
jkcity writes "The ban on sales of Samsung's 10.1 tablet in the EU has been lifted everywhere except Germany. The new ruling is in effect until August 25th while it is decided whether the original court had the power to enforce an EU wide ban. With allegations that submitted evidence was not 100% accurate, the case could be bogged down in the court for years."
So they accidentally resized the image of the 10.1 so that it looked identical to the iPad for a side-by-side comparison, it's a mistake anyone could have made on a key page of court-submitted legal documents...
so good apple tried to ban it!
you can't buy advertising that good!
disclaimer-very happy with the 7" tab
Really? I've got a Xoom and it's been awesome. The only app I'm missing so far is Minecraft Pocket Edition, but not even the iPad has that.
It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
Yep. We're always being told how Apple is the best quality, best operating system and how they keep prices lower than everybody else by buying up massive amounts of chips for years in advance of production, etc.
Now they're saying they can't compete in a fair marketplace?
No sig today...
The problem with Android tablets is that they really aren't up to par with iPad. They look and feel clumsy, they don't have the same app economy that iPad has and most of all Android devices suffer from fragmentation. I really wish someone would come up with a better device. Microsoft's Courier looked great, so I hope they work on similar concept with Nokia.
Where have I heard that before?
Oh yeah.
Is there any other more natural feeling tablet? It would be much better than the usual ones. Since all the Android devices are quite much clones of each other, I hope someone uses this to their advantage and makes a device like Courier. Or Microsoft should continue their project. It's really interesting anyway.
I'm looking forward to discovering your next top-posting account, dumbass. How many new accounts is that now... 35?
Actually, there are two entities involved, Samsung Germany and their parent company in Korea. The latest ruling is that the court probably only has jurisdiction over the subsidiary. So, if a German person buys one through a retailer that in turn buys from Samsung Korea, no order is violated.
And then - explain why Apple really felt the need to attack Samsung using a lawsuit?
If a product is bad it will just result in the situation where nobody buys it.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
There are lots of reasons to *not* buy an iPad. The dubious recent behaviour of Apple is just one of them (and I speak as someone who only has Macs at home).
For example, I bought an EeePad Transformer yesterday.
I did not need to plug it into a computer capable of running the latest iTunes - I just turned it on and connected it to our wifi network and it updated itself. I did not need to sign up for an account and register my machine with Asus (or Google). I have a proper keyboard and USB ports. I can use a browser that is *not* based on WebKit if I want to (e.g. Opera).
The HP Touchpad has other issues though - primarily that it's a terrible clone of an iPad with an OS nobody wants except for novelty value. I can't imagine why anyone would want a Blackberry Playbook for much the same reason.
The following article has some very interesting information about Community Designs, which were used for getting the original injunction.
Community designs are basically unreviewed sketches of products which can be used to silently get an injunction for your competitors product.
No checks are done for obviousness, nor for prior art.
Apple is actually seeking a ban on all of the Galaxy products, including the original tab and the Galaxy S2 smartphone, in The Netherlands.
This is not just a ban from Samsung importing them. It's a ban on retailers to sell them (i.e. they need to recall them) and distributors distributing them (to other countries). So that 'good advertising' would only last for as long as they're still allowed to sell it - which might be until mid October if they're unlucky.
In addition Apple demand that in Samsung's recall notice to distributors and retailers, they make note that the product infringes on Apple IP.
It seems very much a "Let's demand the ridiculous - any toning down by the judge will then fall in our favor" type move, but I'm sure they're actually quite serious.
Source: http://webwereld.nl/nieuws/107630/apple--gehele-galaxy-lijn-moet-uit-de-schappen.html
Apple isn't scoring any brownie points with these demands, that's for sure. One major online news site's (nu.nl) comments are replete with negative comments toward Apple, even from avid Apple fans, and they're not doing much better over at the #1 tech news site for NL/BE (tweakers.net).
Not that I think it'll impact Apple's bottom line in any way. ha.
I have no doubt that they would extend this to the EU.
The problem with Android tablets is that they really aren't up to par with iPad. They look and feel clumsy, they don't have the same app economy that iPad has and most of all Android devices suffer from fragmentation. I really wish someone would come up with a better device. Microsoft's Courier looked great, so I hope they work on similar concept with Nokia.
Most of the top end Android tablets (i.e. those running Android 3.0) are easily on par with the iPad. The OS is far better thought out than the iPad and multitasking isn't some afterthought. The apps some way to go and from experience writing apps this is probably due to the greater diversity of form factors and the layout models you need to produce to make them work properly.
I think a larger problem is that their price is on par with the iPad and the iPad is expensive. Once tablet manufacturers start dropping their prices they're going to sell a lot better.
There is absolutely no reason at all that a 9-10" tablet with capacitive screen, wifi, 16GB flash, 1GB ram, dual core couldn't retail for less than €300 and still make a profit. Stuff like 3G, compass, GPS, even rear facing camera could all be jettisoned if necessary since it's largely superfluous for what most tablets will be used for in the first place.
I doubt that covers the case where there is an injunction against the sale in one country.
The current German court decision means that if you are a retailer, you can't sell the Samsung tablet in Germany. It does not limit the free circulation of goods inside the EU, so you can very well buy it from France or Italy or Austria and have it shipped to your German address.
This freedom is one of the key principles of the European Union.
Funny thing: One of Germany biggest retailers just started selling the Samsung Galaxy Tab. They argue that the injunction is only against Samsung.
Where did you get that idea from? Free trade of goods and services is only good if it's to the benefit of the corporations, not the customer!
Anyone who has not figured out by now that the sole purpose of the EU is to strengthen the economy and screw the population?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
It's not a risk. You can't get sued for it. For example, video games are heavily censored in Germany, so everyone just imports them. Zero risk involved.
Indeed.
If the customer actually had that ability all of the iPads in the world would be collecting dust on a shelf somewhere - unsold.
Aside from the lack of apps, which is true, I'd have to say, I find my Toshiba Thrive much less clunky than an iPad. Yes it's larger, but it has a higher screen resolution, USB (which works with a hub) that can connect to a keyboard and mouse if I like, I believe it can do the same with bluetooth, DVI, audio, and storage can be expanded both with USB drives and a /SD([XH]C)?/ card.
I have access to an excellent email client, good web browsers, flash (actually, I'd uninstall it if I could, for security reasons), quite a few excellent games, good calendar apps... This is without resorting to apps that I have to pay for.
It has also been stable, and high performance.
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
If a product is bad it will just result in the situation where nobody buys it.
Then why do people buy Apple?
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
"In Soviet Russia, the government controls the commerce."
among the most important reasons why I thought that it was a good idea for Finland to join EU was that we could then get more free trade, which we did. basically that's buying stuff from europe without paying excessive customs, we pay still a fair deal of customs/tax on imported used cars but not nearly as much as we did before.
but the IP rights used in this case are ridiculous - the lawyers involved are _highly_ paid so what the fuck can't they do any prior art checking, checking of actual products or anything? they should be industry experts too, not some guys who think that copyright+trademarking a design shown 32423 times in concepts and even practice before is ok - and they should have at least read the news to have seen some actual pics of the devices in question. it's ridiculous, if apple got what it wanted they'd have a potential 25 years monopoly on about a4 sized portable touchscreens.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
For a usual computer user, it makes perfect sense to just try out the two products and arrive at a conclusion whether they are similar or not. Why do Judges rely on printed testimony? But if you think about what a Judge really is responsible for, paper makes more sense than actual devices:
Let's look at an imperfect analogy: For a normal computer user, it makes perfect sense just to use a binary program --- it just works. But for a programmer or a systems administrator, having GPL and getting the source makes a big difference. Why? Because the programmer and the systems administrator are responsible for more than just running the program. They may need to fix bugs, add features, install the program on other machines; port it to other hardware etc. You can do this if you have the source and the GPL. With just the binary, you are often out-of-luck.
A similar argument applies to judges: They are not only responsible to get a personal opinion "I think the products are similar". They need to be able to justify, explain and analyze the details of this decision in the light of the arguments of each party. And here, testimony on paper has big advantages: You can easily copy the testimony (publicize and review it outside the court). The opposing party may check what the judge was actually looking at. The testimony doesn't change after the court session. You can easily store hundreds of pages of such testimony in folders etc.
Let's illustrate this with some hypothetical examples:
Apple claims that Android is identical to the iPhone. Apple and HTC provide two phones to let the judge try it out. The judge swears that they are **exactly** identical (not similar but identical). What happened?
Prior to the trial Apple ported the Android to run on the iPhone and installed both systems. So, when the judge compared the two phones, they indeed acted identically --- running Android. At this point of investigation, this was all that mattered. At the end of the test, an Apple engineer remotely instructs the modified phone to remove the Android install and thus remove any traces of cheating. (Of course, this thought example is exaggerated. But it highlights the point that inspecting actual products gives each party uncontrollable powers to game the cards).
On printed testimony, it is open what the judge sees: You can distribute copies of all documents to all parties --- and any cases of tampering can be brought out to the open --- just as it happened in this case. Thus for the purpose of a court case where each piece of evidence may need to be challenged and investigated, paper is far superior to actual products.
I'll see your Occam's Razor and raise you one: Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Popular_Delusions_and_the_Madness_of_Crowds
Given that Apple products have been found to spark a religious response in those that trumpet their benefits, I believe that Occam's Razor says that they're buying them due to a large delusional crowd movement.
Lets not forget that even with much proof to the opposite of what they claimed, snake oil salesmen could generally find someone local in a town to help them hawk their wares. These people often weren't in on the take. There is a reason selling odd concoctions was profitable.
Who said anything about that? They are competing just fine, but they feel that Samsung has infringed on their design, and they have the right to be able to sue over that perceived infringement (whether they are technically correct or not, it is in their own power to bring the suit).
This is no different to a content producer coming out with a cartoon mouse called "Ricky" and giving him hemispherical black ears and a pet dog called "Gluto". If Disney sues you over this, does that suddenly mean "they can't compete in a fair marketplace"?
I'm not certain the lawsuit holds much water (The Tab doesn't really look all that iPad like, unlike the Galaxy S which *does* look a lot like an iPhone), but Apple's right (or anyone's right) to sue for infringement has no relevance to their ability to compete in the market. They actually make and sell a product, unlike a pure "IP company" looking to make cash from other manufacturers.
A tablet is not a serious puter in most scenarios, it's an accessory.
Not so. It really depends on what you consider "serious." For most people, simply reading their friend's posts of, "Just drank coffee - mmmm", followed by, "just had my second sip - mmmm - even better - yummy", is about as serious as it gets.
I was using the common understanding of it, and have been for years. That argument works under the common definition of it but doesn't under the full one.
Also, you should read the wikipedia article I linked. Large delusional crowd movements are one of the few things that can cross cultural, economic, and age boundaries. Very similarly, so can religion.