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SignalGuru Helps Drivers Avoid Red Lights

cylonlover writes "Researchers at MIT and Princeton have now devised a system, dubbed SignalGuru (PDF), that gathers visual data from the cameras of a network of dashboard-mounted smartphones and tells drivers the optimal speed to drive at to avoid waiting at the next set of lights." In their testing, the system saved drivers about 20 percent in fuel.

33 of 436 comments (clear)

  1. You can do that right now by kanweg · · Score: 2

    When I approach a red light, I don't continue driving and then stop, but start braking immediately and bring my speed down quickly. I then continue rolling at relatively low speed (with the shift stick in neutral, so the car doesn't brake on the engine). Often, I've still speed when the traffic light turns green. This works too if there are cars in front of you, but of course worse the longer the queue before the traffic light is, as they have to pick up speed.

    I've always been waiting for the time that my TomTom gets info from the traffic lights to tell me the best speed, but alternative approaches would be fine too.

    Bert

    1. Re:You can do that right now by FireFury03 · · Score: 5, Informative

      (with the shift stick in neutral, so the car doesn't brake on the engine)

      On a modern car this is bad for fuel consumption - in neutral, the engine is burning fuel to idle, but under engine-braking conditions the ECU cuts the fuel entirely. So if you used the brakes (wasting kinetic energy as heat) and then put the car in neutral to avoid slowing down further, you wasted a load of fuel. Better to just let the engine brake the whole way.

    2. Re:You can do that right now by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can in every automatic I've ever driven. Are the transmissions so different in the states?

      No. The drivers are so different in the states. :-/

      I've driven in the US, Canada, and England.

      Canadian roads are full of indecisive morons who can't figure out where they need to go, or how to get there. They also have no idea how a car works, as everything is automatic and done for them.
      US roads are full of inconsiderate asshats who think everybody else on the road should get off it, so that they can change 3 lanes at once with no signal, since they're too important to have to plan ahead. They mostly have no idea how a car works, as everything is just about as automatic as Canada.
      UK roads are full of speed demons who know where they need to be, and want to get there as quickly as possible. If you're going in the same direction as them, you'd better be moving fast enough to not hold them up. Other than that, they're quite refreshing.

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    3. Re:You can do that right now by mcgrew · · Score: 2

      You're still saving gas. When you're sitting still you're getting 0 mpg. If everyone drove lake that you and I could save even more gas, because we wouldn't have to stop for a green light because everybody else is in such a hurry to race to the red light. People don't seem to realize that in the city, being in a hurry won't get you there any faster. The real speed limit isn't what the sign says, but what the lights are timed at.

    4. Re:You can do that right now by miasmic · · Score: 2

      Mod parent up - This is one of the most common misconceptions I've come across in any walk of life.

      Most people really don't understand the importance and value of engine braking in general, and believe the opposite of reality, that it's bad for the car and that it uses more gas. I am so sick of tailing behind people crawling down mountain passes, breathing in 6 months driving worth of their burning brakes.

      Using the engine to slow down saves gas and brake pads, and down steep hills is much safer as the car isn't waiting to run away / depending on brake pressure to stay under control.

    5. Re:You can do that right now by mwvdlee · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's even worse if the car behind you has a different neutral speed (chance approx. 100%) and needs to either continuously brake or occasionally give some extra gas in order to not crash into you or slow down to the point where it stops too far before the traffic light.
      You might save your own fuel, but you're adding cost and being a pain in the arse for everybody else.
      Just drive normal; don't brake at the last moment and don't brake before you have to.

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    6. Re:You can do that right now by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2

      99.9999% of Americans have automatic gearboxes*. They can't downshift whenever they feel like it.

      Of course we can. The gearshift has lower gear positions that limit the automatic transmission to the lower gears specifically for this purpose.

    7. Re:You can do that right now by miasmic · · Score: 2

      I would agree 100% with your assessment, North Americans generally drive like 'soccer moms' as they call them compared to UK drivers, I noticed this while living in Canada.

      Drivers in New Zealand though look like Michael Schumacher compared to both UK and US drivers, particularly in rural areas. The speed limits and speeds people drive at are faster here, but the big difference is corners - people in NZ know how to take corners at speed. I've seen refuse trucks overtaking rental cars round the outside of bends and pickups with trailers going faster than most of the pricks you see in Audi coupes would drive on a similar country road in the UK. It's easy to spot American/European tourists here on anything short of a freeway, even without seeing their rental car because they're the ones driving well under the de facto speed limit (which is about 68mph, including rural roads), slowing down to walking pace for every bend with a 20 car long tailback behind them.

      Refreshingly, more people here than in the UK seem to know how to overtake, and not just endlessly tailgate, stopping others from overtaking. Shame they don't know how to drive on freeways (undertaking is legal because lots of people never move out of the fast lane here) or indicate properly on roundabouts though.

    8. Re:You can do that right now by SharpFang · · Score: 2

      Working in traffic lights business, we got a problem with approach similar to yours.

      A smart system will synchronize lights for optimal speed on given section of the road. If you drive 50km/h as the regulations for this location say, you will stop at most once, then get green light on all crossroads along the way. But there's this long, straight section with bright traffic lights visible from a far distance.

      Nope, the problem is not assholes who speed to the next lights, then stop, then race again.
      It's regular drivers, who upon seeing red light slow down, to get there at leisurely pace. Then the green light is lit when they are still too far. Then it ends and they arrive at the next red light. Traffic jams start forming, people complain about too short green, problems arise.

      On sections where the next traffic lights aren't easily visible from afar, and a photoradar warning appears, so everyone is driving up to but not above speed limit, there are no congestions, the traffic runs fluently and only cars that got into traffic from side roads or stopped along the way get to wait.

      Don't try to outsmart the machine. It's been tuned to work well with dumb humans. Smart humans break the algorithm.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    9. Re:You can do that right now by jittles · · Score: 2

      Run it off the battery? My car (a 1999 Civic) can run the AC with the engine off...

      No it can't. If you're in a US market then your Civic uses a pulley to turn the air conditioning compressor. The air blown out may stay cold for a few minutes, but after that the air will start to heat up again. I was going to go to the trouble of looking up the AC Repair manual at autozone.com, but the website runs slow thru my VM and VPN connection. Suffice it to say that my brother has a '99 Civic and I have worked on the car w/ him before.

      In fact, I know someone with a 2007 Mercury Mariner Hybrid and I hated driving in the damned thing. The AC would turn off at every stop light, unless you enabled "max A/C", and then the engine would keep running. Hopefully they fixed that on newer hybrids. Otherwise they are not very useful in hot/humid climates.

    10. Re:You can do that right now by jittles · · Score: 2

      This may be the case where you live, but the City of Fresno, California was sued by the EPA a few years ago for artificially slowing down the speed of traffic. They timed the lights so that, if you exceeded the speed limit by more than 10 miles per hour, you could catch every light green. Otherwise, you caught every light red. They then had motorcycle officers waiting to catch you speeding.

      The EPA caught wind of this and sued the city, indicating that the city was intentionally increasing smog in order to generate revenue. The City was then mandated that they had to time the lights to make traffic flow as smoothly as possible. So, be thankful you work somewhere that actually cares about traffic, and not about generating ticket revenue.

    11. Re:You can do that right now by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      When you engine brake, you put the car in a lower gear, which increases the revs on the engine, which requires more fuel. Why would you think the engine cuts fuel completely? First, it needs fuel, even at idle. Second, it needs more fuel to produce more rpms in the lower gear.

      Obviously, you don't know much about cars.

      When you put the car in a lower gear, and you have forward momentum, this momentum turns the wheels, which then turns the engine. When the gas pedal is not being pressed, the ECU does not provide fuel to the engine. It simply doesn't: go read about ECUs if you don't believe me. My old 1994 car's service manual even states this very simple fact.

      This has nothing to do with idling; if you're in gear, you're not idling, by definition. To idle, you have to shift into neutral. You can't idle in gear.

  2. Honest Officer by drginge · · Score: 2

    My iPhone told me to NAIL IT....can you give it the ticket?

    1. Re:Honest Officer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Were you running the Jesus App?

      No, I was running the Your Mom App.

  3. It won't work here by rust627 · · Score: 4, Informative

    In the interests of efficiency, most lights here in Melbourne have been converted to a triggered system.

    The idea is that the main road (determined by some guru in a government department) has right of way and light changes are triggered by cars moving over sensors at the stop lines of the red lights, in some cases (though not all) they can detect 2 cars per lane. Of course the habit of many drivers to sit back a good car length from the stop lines often means that they do not get close enough to the coils in the road to properly trigger them and as a result you get a few drivers saying"to hell with it" and running through a red light after waiting for 10 minutes. It is really funny to then see the lights change a matter of moments after, in response to the car driving over the sense coils in the road.

    The result is that there is no correct speed to catch the green light because there is no direct coordination between lights.

    --
    da da da dum indeed.
    1. Re:It won't work here by Another,+completely · · Score: 2

      In Zurich, the urban planners are proud of their ability to force drivers to hit as many red lights as possible. They feel this will discourage people from driving in town, and somehow reduce pollution. Whether the net result of all those cars accelerating and braking all the time is actually better is another discussion, but if they ever thought that a system like this was becoming popular (thwarting their carefully annoying design) they would adjust somehow.

      In case you are wondering, this is not my imagination or guess. They really are openly proud of how annoying they can make the local traffic.

  4. Roundabouts by ModernGeek · · Score: 2

    For as long as I can remember, I've always said that if the United States wanted to be serious about fuel consumption, that it would install roundabouts throughout it's cities.

    The cost of the infrastructure switchover would be offset by the savings to tax payers in no time.

    The government wouldn't like this because it means more money spent on infrastructure and less tax income from gasoline. In the end, less money fed to the machine.

    It's good to see hackers like this out there trying to (and succeeding) in subverting the elite.

    --
    Sig: I stole this sig.
    1. Re:Roundabouts by MrDoh! · · Score: 2

      Which is why you have dual roundabouts/traffic lights. Traffic flow light to moderate, let the roundabout self regulate. Rush Hours, you let the traffic lights direct.
      Best of both worlds.

      --
      Waiting for an amusing sig.
    2. Re:Roundabouts by MrDoh! · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They're installing 'traffic circles' in a few places in Miami now and they're making a mess of it.

      A). No-one knows what todo at a roundabout. Both approaching it, and whilst on it. Whilst I've been on a roundabout, I've had people hurtling into my path. As I'm waiting for someone to pass in front of me, they stop in the middle of the roundabout and try to wave me on. (I'll let the fact that no-cars appear to have indicators in Miami go amiss...) Actually, no I won't let it go amiss, as it continues with lack of education that when there IS a roundabout, no-one ever gets the correct positioning it appears. Luckily, it's usually single lane roads, but the occasional 2 lanes feeding into it? NO-ONE gets into the correct lane for their turning (and I recall plenty of public service announcements in the UK to drill it home). So, education of what' they're trying to achieve needs to be implemented.

      B) They have STOP signs AT the roundabout in many places. Apparently the city wants them, but the county has different rules, leading to Yield/Stop signs next to each other, not helping people learn what's supposed to actually happen. (Sure this part will be resolved shortly, but it's confusing everyone who's first experience of a roundabout is this).

      C) Some places (key biscayne), they've filled the middle of the roundabouts with beautiful plants. That in Miami climes, grows RAPIDLY. Many roundabouts now, the vision is blocked horribly on your exit. There's going to be accidents, and it'll be totally avoidable..

      D), Some states have no 'right of way' rule. Florida for example, if you're on a roundabout, you don't have right of way, no-one does. If you have an accident of someone plowing into you from the side, they may be able to fight in on court that you crossed their path. (never underestimate the power of lawyers to make a further mess of something). "He drove in front of me!" "yes, I was on the roundabout" "this court doesn't recognise a roundabout as a valid traffic item'

      E) They've done a great job of building roads in the US, but without any though for the placement of a roundabout. Retro fitting them in some places is making some odd designs. (that probably just need a single stop sign, and a yield in the other direction, but no doubt funds are already appropriated)

      F) And, like many other places, they put crossings RIGHT on the nearest part of the road, that with the amount of Flora previously mentioned, and the requirements to give way to pedestrians crossing, no indicators, no education on how to drive round a roundabout, means there's going to be issues.

      G) odd planning. To place a roundabout at a junction, requires the 4 homes on each corner to give permission. If anyone disagrees, it won't be built (at least that's how I'm understanding it in Coral Gables). Many, not understanding what it's about, say no. The next junction, all the people may allow it. Leading to a confusing road journey filled with Stop sign, roundabout, roundabout, stop sign, roundabout, yield, roundabout with a stop sign, stop sign, roundabout. With some roads having more, some less. If you're going to do it, at least be consistent.

      So, when I'm a passenger in a car and the driver encounters a roundabout and starts cursing that it's a terrible thing, and that they cause accidents, and don't improve traffic flow, I mumble under my breath "yeah, but only in America it appears..."

      --
      Waiting for an amusing sig.
  5. We can do even better and smarter by aglider · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Instead pf reverse engineering the traffic lights timing, the responsible offices could simply document them, also on road signals.
    All the stuff needed to reverse engineer the timings will produce more CO2 than simply say them.
    Nonetheless, that idea is really smart.

    --
    Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
  6. Re:Why not abolish traffic lights? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes it could ... if drivers scrupulously respected the indications of the magic box on the dashboard.

  7. The human drivers era is ending by javilon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you look at all the available safety systems coming in the next generation of cars:

    - automatic braking
    - infrared night vision
    - reverse backup sensors
    - adaptive cruise control
    - lane departure warning systems
    - traction control systems
    - electronic stability control
    - emergency brake assist
    - cornering brake control
    - precrash system
    - automated parking

    It is just a couple of steps away from turning you into a mere supervisor of your car's automatic driving.
    If you add fuel efficiency to the safety concerns, it will add a new set or constraints that will give automatic driving an advantage over human driving.

    --


    When his defense asked, "Which computer has Jon Johansen trespassed upon?" the answer was: "His own."
  8. Its been tried by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Interesting

    tells drivers the optimal speed to drive at to avoid waiting at the next set of lights."

    The problem is that the speed to travel at to not stop at the next set of lights could be 12 km/h or 1.5 times the speed limit. It is hardly ever a speed you are actually going to travel at. We had a system in Melbourne which did this. They had to change it to not display a speed above the speed limit and then the displays showed stupidly low speeds.

  9. Re:Stay in Gear and look ahead by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 3

    No.... When your engine breaks, you use no fuel. It's pretty obvious, really.

    --
    "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
  10. Great for speed demons by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 2

    Don't forget: when you're perfectly synchronized with the traffic lights at 30 mph, you are also at 60 and 120 :)

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  11. No, if you are doing it during traffic hours. by mapkinase · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Roads are not for "saving" on fuel or brakes. Roads are for getting from A to B.

    You selfish "saving" on fuel leads to you occupying extra road time-space. You are basically hogging it, take it from other drivers, which leads to heavier traffic, in fact, very often it will lead to creation of extra traffic jams.

    Instead of that technology, they should invent technology that will get medieval on the asses of those local government official who intentionally program traffic light system to slow drivers.

    --
    I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    1. Re:No, if you are doing it during traffic hours. by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2, Informative

      Insightful my fat arse.
      Aggressive drivers who try to get from A to B as fast as possible cause traffic jams. Drivers who flow with the traffic don't. That technology is made explicitely for a smooth traffic flow.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    2. Re:No, if you are doing it during traffic hours. by Nimey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What really ensures smooth traffic flow is for everyone to be traveling at about the same speed, with no idiots getting right on someone's butt then hitting the brakes. When they do that, it sets up a standing wave where everyone behind the idiot has to slow down.

      I try to do my part by acting as a low-pass filter: when I see people up ahead of me slowing down, I let off the accelerator and slow down gently so that nobody behind me who's paying the least bit of attention has to hit their brakes, thus removing the standing wave.

      Obviously this can't help when you've got at-grade crossings when people will stop to wait for traffic so they can turn left, but it's a good general rule.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    3. Re:No, if you are doing it during traffic hours. by mapkinase · · Score: 2, Informative

      The only reason for "aggressive" driving during traffic hours are idiots who DO NOT "flow with the traffic". Because of them now the traffic (which you call "aggressive") flows around them causing extra speeding diff between lanes, extra lane changes.

      As for speed. The higher the speed, the better the smooth traffic flow fixes the problem of jams, because of the extra space that the car takes from the road. At the same 3 sec interval you will take more time-space on the road at lower speed, because larger part of your time-space is your car length.

      I have driven 120K in 6 years in Maryland commuting to the city and I haven't seen a single aggressive driver on the road during traffic hours.

      What I see plenty are dumbasses who drive -10 mph at the leftmost lane talking on the phone, chatting with their carpool (another commie abomination) buddy and generally being oblivious to what is happening on the road. But, of course, it is much easier to fine a guy who dares to speed up in the 400 feet gap caused by the aforementioned idiot, that to stop that idiot and hang him head down from the closes automobile bridge.

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
  12. Re:as long as i can remember by mwvdlee · · Score: 2

    I guess it depends.
    I live in the Netherlands, where a lot of traffic lights have been replaced by roundabouts and it improves the flow of traffic a lot. I've rarely had dangerous situations, in fact the false sense of safety that a traffic light gives is probably more dangerous. Atleast you're paying attention when crossing a roundabout. With traffic-lights people just floor it whenever they get a green light, regardless the idiot that just crossed a red light.

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  13. Wrong way around by gilesjuk · · Score: 3

    Put more sensors and "intelligence" in the traffic lights and let people drive around as normal.

    Traffic light systems are really stupid, last night I was driving home at 2am and came to some traffic lights, they changed to red and there was no other cars around.

  14. Arse about by mjwx · · Score: 2

    Put more sensors and "intelligence" in the traffic lights and let people drive around as normal.

    You've got that completely arse about.

    Put more intelligence into the drivers so they stop doing stupid things. People thinking that doing 80 (Kph) in a 60 zone is normal are the problem, not traffic lights. In the vast majority of cities traffic lights and speed limits are designed to work together to ensure traffic flows correctly, when Dingbat McHoon drives at 90 in a 60 zone he is the problem, not the traffic lights.

    Driving is somewhere where the Dunning-Kruger effect is very obvious.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  15. Re:Suggestion by treeves · · Score: 2

    Socialism keeps getting redefined. Yours is not the original definition.

    --
    ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.