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EPIC Uncovers: Mobile Scanners Not 'Certified People Scanners'
OverTheGeicoE writes "The Electronic Privacy Information Center received more FOIA documents from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security regarding mobile x-ray scanners (a.k.a. Z Backscatter Vans). We've discussed these devices before. Perhaps the most interesting part is slide #11 ('Disclaimer About Scanning People') on page 6 of this PDF explaining that the radiation output of these devices is too high to comply with ANSI N43.17. In other words, they output too much radiation even by TSA's questionable standards for airport body scanners. Regardless, the slide ends with the author stating that the ANSI standard 'is not applicable to covert operations.' What might that assertion have meant to the presentation's intended audience?"
We irradiate meat to make it safer, so why not people?
Curiously, despite going through a couple airports in the NW US recently, I was only scanned in Seattle, where they appeared to be scanning everyone. In Portland, it was just standard metal detectors (I used Portland rather more than Seattle). In Vancouver Canada, it was also just metal detectors.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
Is not subject to the constraint of public law.
Consent of the governed is not required or desirable.
Carry on.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Cancer in the defense of freedom is not cancer at all.
The ignorant masses encourage oil companies to poison their air and water in exchange for a fictitious economic benefit.
The Department of Homeland Security should just call itself "Amaco" and pretend to drill for oil.
Throw in a deceptive advertising campaign and the masses will cheer them on as cancer rates climb.
Here's a better question to ask: which official is going to wind up taking the fall for these wastes of tax dollars? So far, we know the following about these machines:
This was an obvious sweetheart deal, and someone is going to have to get in trouble for it. Obama or his successor will probably pardon that person, since it will just be a fall guy and nobody wants to start an investigation that would keep expanding until half of capitol hill was implicated.
Palm trees and 8
The fact that backscatter scanners use X-rays in amounts that can't meet national standards isn't even an issue.
In point of fact, as long as nobody can prove that they have had a large radiation dose - tough with "nothing in pockets, etc" - then the TSA is off the hook. Time has taught us - those who listen - that politicians don't mind endangering or even killing people, as long as it can't be traced directly back to them, and as long as it doesn't actually apply to them, themselves.
Don't take life too seriously; it isn't permanent.
"the ANSI standard 'is not applicable to covert operations.' " parses alright. Still, for certainty of context, I'd like to read this in the original German language.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Who are you, you think you are a citizen, a person? You think you have rights? Liberties? You must have read that silly document from 1787 or whatever. That doesn't apply anymore, didn't you know?
Didn't you know you are now property, an asset that is used as collateral for more government borrowing on the one hand and on the other you are a piece of meat to be used fighting in conflicts that help the bona-fide persons - real people with government connections.
Your silly notions of rights and liberties are of no concern anymore, and you, yourself agree with this every day. Every day you want government to do something for you, to tax somebody and to borrow from somewhere, to print more money so that your special interest gets the tiny crumbs of the royal table, those are you 30 pieces of silver to sell your soul (obviously nobody will be paying you in silver, that's too fat. They have US federal reserve notes for that.)
What, you think it's too harsh? Trollish? A flamebait?
How about you listen to this short radio episode, the guest is Henry Juszkiewicz, CEO of Gibson Guitars. You will find out how a classic American company became an enemy of the state by providing 1200 jobs IN USA, that's right. The reasons? Who knows. The government doesn't have to tell the reasons, you peons, not even peons in the sense that you do work. You are just a number in the line up that they can use for displaying the meat mass, how much there is there to "count the votes" or whatever they need you for, and you aren't too good for organs anymore, being on FDA approved drugs and department of Agriculture subsidized foods.
You don't like the machine scanning through your body, your flesh and bones? Who is asking you?
You can't handle the truth.
Molestations at airports, those stupid scanners, and now this? This is just going to far. It's unnecessary and creepy.
GP was joking.
Regardless, the slide ends with the author stating that the ANSI standard 'is not applicable to covert operations.' What might that assertion have meant to the presentation's intended audience?
It means, "what they don't know won't hurt them."
I mean, if you put a wad of foil in the microwave, you can get the thing to fry itself.
Would clothing with ceramic magnets in it do this to a backscatter xray or a tetrahertz mw scanner? I'm sure there's something short of an EMP that would at least deny service by such a device. Perhaps even scatter the same harmful radiation back on its operators?
This is an interesting line of inquiry. Like most forms of security, there are unexplored use cases that were never properly modelled for threat. I'm thinking this seems like an excellent practical topic for something we'd expect to see at DefCon - like this year's defeat of the CLIQ technology electro-mechanical high-security locks, mandated by Federal government.
I don't advocate this - simply applaud the ingenuity and sentiment.
Thoughts, anyone?
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Comments so far are missing a salient feature of these things: they are in use at the U.S. border.
Trucks drive past them at the border (oh, they're just mezkins...)
They are located north of the border, by approx. 30 miles (DHS calls it "defense in depth"). See them in my neck of the woods in Arizona on: northbound I/19, eastbound Hwy 82, northbound Hwy 83, northbound Hwy 90
To the assholes who have no problem with this: how many checkpoints do you drive through on your way to work?
You can see a picture of these vans via the earlier /. link
Real murderers stand in front of Teleprompters in suits, and kill thousands and millions.
And get re-elected.
--
BMO
Free lethal radiation for everyone!
I'd like to see how USA tourism companies will try to spin that one.
Yeah no shit it's beyond the safe limits for a person, but by how much? These things can look through the thick steel side of a shipping container or a dumpster.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
...as long as it can't be traced directly back to them.
Congress created the DHS to placate the panicky public who were demanding that the "government do something!" and the politicians were eager to win the votes and not appear to be "weak on terrorism" - yes, I know that's obvious.
BUT the DHS was formed well before the implementation of these scanners. The whole blame belongs on the shoulders of the administrator at the time, and Michael Chertoff who used his connections to force this inferior technology down the throats of the TSA. Everyone knew that there were issues, but Rapiscan used bogus and junk science to convince everyone that their product was safe.
the responsible people are Michael Chertoff and the senior management of Rapiscan and all the members of Congress just because they are lying, stupid, scientifically illiterate, sacks of shit.
Having a license to carry a concealed firearm, as many others in this country have, what does this accomplish? This would be an unreasonable search of my person, without a warrant, resulting in the inevitable "papers, please." Too many ways for that situation to end up poorly...
Something witty.
This really doesn't matter anymore. There already are no contruction jobs left in the US, so the lower workforce is becoming more and more of a drag. The economy of the USA stopped depending on productivity some thirty years ago. The domestic economy is based on consumption instead of construction. The goal is keep just as much money flowing through benefits as to feed the consumerist habits: promote addictions fully within your control (smoking, sitcoms, guns, sugar), but clamp down hard on addictions that you don't control (ie narcotics) -- the economy is brittle so any money flowing freely is a danger to national security.
The foreign policy consists of making sure that american companies have their grubby fingers in just as much cookie jars as to not wake the natives. And if the natives start complaining, you just strongarm them into consuming your goods though Orwellian "free-trade" agreements. Don't worry about the Old World -- their leaders are all bent over facing east, and your corporations already own half their infrastructure and high-profile institutions.
For the really problematic areas, just ignite a local feud and sell weapons of minimal destruction to both sides; just enough to keep them occupied but not enough to let one party gain the upper hand. Be sure to switch sides every few years to keep the battle drawn-out, and use your domestic propaganda to make the US appear the victim, or the reluctant saviour, depending on the situation.
Nothing of value was lost.
Is there a way to detect these, like a wifi signal?
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
Curiously, despite going through a couple airports in the NW US recently, I was only scanned in Seattle, where they appeared to be scanning everyone. In Portland, it was just standard metal detectors (I used Portland rather more than Seattle). In Vancouver Canada, it was also just metal detectors.
When I was leaving Seattle (Seatac), I told the TSA girl that was tasked with the difficult job of going "inni-mini" between the cancer box and metal detector to "rub my balls" instead. She was so offended, she called for a supervisor, who promptly found a guy to rub my balls for me. The girl looked shocked, like she'd just fallen off her high horse.
Next time, I think I'll ask for a happy ending.
the ANSI standard 'is not applicable to covert operations.'
Obviously, the implication is that "suspects" are not "people." And it seems everyone is a "suspect," as these things are being aimed at the public at large.
As a side note, I just had a mental image of them parking these trucks in a circle around a pile of wood and gleefully starting a bonfire (using the x-ray beams). They may have also parked in a circle around the Constitution.
Perhaps we should boycott airplanes as much as possible. This may sound quite unpractical for people who need flights, but at least people should avoid this for tourism. Remember there are ~60 millions tourists from foreign countries. So marking US as a "no-go' destination for foreigners might lift some regulations and especially body scanners.
Boycott is an effective way but politicians might require body scanners for any transportation mode.
Page 12 says they are safe for scanning sheep, so there's no problem here.
Pretending this is my office full of bitter coworkers..
The fact that backscatter scanners use X-rays in amounts that can't meet national standards isn't even an issue.
In point of fact, as long as nobody can prove that they have had a large radiation dose - tough with "nothing in pockets, etc" - then the TSA is off the hook. Time has taught us - those who listen - that politicians don't mind endangering or even killing people, as long as it can't be traced directly back to them, and as long as it doesn't actually apply to them, themselves.
I've never had a backscatter scan done.
I always opt out and I always will.
Some unmarked van with a couple of creepy guys pulls up alongside me. Then my X-ray detector pegs. It could be a lethal dose, so I'm going to use whatever force I have available to stop them.
A couple of rounds from my M107 should do the trick.
Have gnu, will travel.
How much longer do "they" think people are going to take this shit. If you keep pushing eventually the people are going to push back. Just ask Egypt, Syria, or practically any other middle eastern country!
I fly maybe a dozen times a year, and I too have never gone through the new scanners. I usually fly through Newark, Philadelphia, and Chicago, so the scanners are there. I've just never been asked to go through one.
I did just look online and saw that 'radiation detecting stickers' exist. I'm curious if the TSA would scan one for me on the back of my driver's license, so I could see what I was in for. They probably won't, so I'd have to just wear a sticker and go in one myself. That's not happening though.
I've never had a backscatter scan done.
I always opt out and I always will.
I've never had a backscatter scan done, either. I always opt out of flying and I always will until those abominations are removed from the airports.
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
In point of fact, as long as nobody can prove that they have had a large radiation dose - tough with "nothing in pockets, etc"
Okay, I tape the dosimeter to my chest. (Perhaps even wear a wizard hat and robe, to confuse them.)
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
If a truck comes over from Mexico, the TSA might want to check the container for counterfeit ice cubes, and doing so they might discover -much to their surprise- that the anonymous tip was wrong but that there are people hiding inside.
How could they have known? So sorry. But none of the irradiated people is pressing charges anyhow.
On page 4 of the scan: "Backscatter signal decreases by the square of the
distance due to geometry (going from 5 feet to 30 feet
reduces the detected signal by 1/36)"
Surely it is an inverse square law for x-ray power to the target, and inverse square for backscattered x-rays returning, giving an inverse fourth power law for distance.
So going from 5 feet to 30 feet reduces the detected signal to 1/1296 of the original.
Alternatively, power can be increased, as shown on page 5 where it says
"Increased range - requires more X-ray flux".
For the same detection at 30 feet as 5 feet, keeping everything else constant would require increasing x-ray power by a factor of
1296. If you at 30 feet you receive 10 microRem then if you were at at 5 feet away with the same set up you would receive 12960 microrem,
or 13 millirem.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/nucene/radexp.html
suggests that is equivalent to losing 15 minutes of life.
This topic is what I read from the HS reports. And the poor operators who are there for hours on end. They too will eventually have cancer and perish.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
The courts have disagreed with your assertion and effectively neutered the 2nd, 4th, and 5th Amendments when it comes to air travel.
Look up "implied consent."
And apparently, "border checkpoints in depth", which means roadside scanners anywhere within 100 miles of a sea or land border (essentially covers most of US population,) which is the subject of this article. And regarding the airport scanners: those don't meet medical safety standards, either, and you are prohibited from getting information - being informed is a key component of consent. Implied consent can't be uninformed consent.
The very first time that I flew since those scanners went online, El Paso -> Reagan National, I was selected for it. As I already have an immunological disorder which represents genetic damage, I opted out and had to be groped. At Reagan flying home, sailed right through: no scan, no pat-down, just the magnetometer.
To say TSA security is a farce is redundant.
When you sympathize with stupidity, you start thinking like an idiot.
Sure about that?
Because I got a radiation badge right here that changes its color when it gets radiation above a certain limit.
Luckily, I'm not living in a country with a terrorist government... yet.
(The people are just as much non-individuals and cattle though.)