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Cloud Gaming Service OnLive Unofficially On Linux
An anonymous reader writes "Through some clever patching, OnLive community members have found a way to run OnLive on Linux using Wine. While the fix isn't perfect, this is a giant leap for Linux users wanting to play the latest games without the need for Windows. Linux users can now play several high quality games like the new Deus Ex with very few performance issues and on lower end hardware."
While a kind offer, I have to say no thanks. This kind of service goes against all my beliefs and every rule for Linux and open source. Not only you don't get source code with the game, you don't even get binaries and data! Once you stop paying, you stop playing. If we support development like this there will soon be nothing else. There are many great open source games for Linux, like Battle for Wesnoth, Freeciv and Nethack. Even ID open sources their engines so that people can create many new awesome games. Once OnLine and companies start doing that, don't include abusive DRM and provides source with the game boxes, we can start talking. Until that I rather support indie developers.
Probably cancer
But that's a long way to go just so you don't have to install windows..
Pirate that crap already. keep it around on a hd just to make things easier for crap like this.
I like linux, I like gaming, and you can do gaming on linux, be it with wine or some games that are made for linux (too).
However, onlive will eat lots of bandwidth, will be slow, making you unable to play against other people except ones on onlive too.
For singleplayer games, being realistic, it would probably be 100ms-200ms just for your game, combined with about 200ms for my own reaction time, sometimes more sometimes less, I am getting close to half a second of before I can do anything.
Never mind that I usually play singleplayer games because my internet is going bad. It seems that you would only be able to play against other onlive gamers, because if you have another server, which you go first to onlive and then continue to that server, you will easily get 400-500ms lag. on their own servers, you may potentially end up with 200ms, which is on the verge of being acceptable, then again, thats no mod support, no nothing really.
Well I suppose if you ignore:
1) Low resolution/detail. Onlive isn't streaming you a 25mbps 1080p AVCHD signal. They stream a low bitrate 720p signal. What this means is that not only are you dealing with a lower resolution but fine detail gets lost. That's how video compression works: Algorithms are used to simplify things which results in the loss of detail. The more you compress, the more you lose. So you aren't getting the full experience of a "high end system" like they want to pretend. You get something that is mid-low end at best.
2) Large amounts of interface lag. Since all the rendering is done remotely, there is lag on everything, even mouse cursor movements. The amount of lag is cumulative, so not only the lag from your monitor and mouse as you always get, but network as well. Even if you live real near a datacenter, it is going to be non-trivial and any further and it could be rather major. You can learn to adjust, to an extent, but it is amazing how much nicer a no-lag interface feels. If you have a monitor with, say, 30ms of lag, you won't notice it, it is below human perception. But add that to a 60ms network and encoding lag and you will notice.
3) It is 100% network dependent. Your Internet goes out? No games. Have a bandwidth cap? This uses heavily towards that. Someone else downloading something? You can get stuttering and dropouts. You take any problem you've ever had with streaming video and then add to the fact that there is no buffer and that's what you've got.
Now of course this is on top of the fact that you don't get to have the games. They are all "sold" on the service meaning if Onlive ever goes under, you are SOL. It isn't even something like with a DRM or download solution where you could crack it, or they could let you download before they go down for good, Onlive goes down, you are done.
Also it isn't as though you are "running" the games on Linux. You are just streaming the video to Linux. They are running on the Onlive servers.
Really, if you wish to play games a much better idea is to just get yourself a console, or mid-low end graphics card. Pick up a $80-100 graphics card and you'll get quality as good or better than what Onlive pulls, with none of the problems.
It is a service that really doesn't make any sense. Maybe back in the day when you had to have high end hardware to play games but these days not only are consoles a major option, but you don't need much computer to play games. You take a reasonable desktop computer, like a Core 2 and 2+GB of RAM, and toss in a reasonable video card and you can play what you want.
Much better idea than using Onlive.
So basically this is the future of gaming. You own nothing, you just rent and there is absolutely no reason to put any work into porting games or at least making them compatible with WINE so long as Onlive or its successors technically work. There is no single player because Onlive is essentially a form of always on DRM. Their servers go down, no gaming for you. At least with WINE there is the possibility of eventually playing a game offline with or without some outside server being involved.
Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
But the downside is... you have to run Windows.
Well if this works then you only have to get the OnLive app working to play all the windows games. No messing around in wine needed. ; )
It's about cloud gaming - and "gaming" is not restricted only to "GAME"
Think about this as cloud interactive many-to-many fullblown online connect.
News flash, another windows application was hacked to work with Wine! This is NOT Linux!
Steam (a similar content deliver system) is constantly being updated which will break wine compatibility. Each fix doesn't deserve front page news.
On the contrary, I'll have to disagree with the complains of the usefulness of the service. Its not entirely different than licensing content through Netflix, where you never really own the physical media.
I've used Steam for years and it works great (on Windows, OK in Wine). Lets call this what it is... another Windows app updated to silver status in the winehq database.
Lets resurrect this title again when OnLive gets a native Linux client.
-Tres
Everytime you see something marketed as 'Cloud' based or 'Cloud' anything just mentally remove the word cloud from the product and add "For Suckers (TM)". You'll save yourself a lot of fuss, hassle and confusion.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Yeah I know there are a thousand posts like this, but when things don't work on platforms they're designed t (Windows Live I'm looking at you) what the fuck reason do companies have to keep doing this?
We can only hope.
+0 Meh
. . . imagine if the Ubisoft always-on DRM were an inherent, unremoveable aspect of the game system rather than just something tacked on to a few individual games after the fact, such that Ubisoft couldn't even begrudgingly neuter it in a patch. Well, Onlive is even worse than that would be.
The game doesn't even run remotely. All you get is streaming video/audio and all the lag you'd expect (including controller lag), which is a recipe for disaster in North America.
Let's say you're lucky enough to have a 30mb/s connection. Why would you want to use it to transfer your game's video instead of, uh, a DVI cable, which is capable of 4 Gb/s? The people who developed DVI apparently understood that that 1920 x 1200 pixels w/ 24 bits/pixels @ 60Hz results in bandwidth well over 3 Gb/s. The people who developed Onlive seem very, very confused (at best).
Some people consider IPS monitors unsuitable for games requiring fast reflexes (i.e. FPSes) due to their double-digit response times. Internet latency is often worse and certainly more unpredictable than LCD monitor response time, and with Onlive it applies to audio and keyboard/controller/etc input too.
Those of us who know anything about bandwidth and compression and (especially) latency can see the enormous technical obstacles facing a service like this, and Onlive has never done anything to explain how they intend to solve them. Instead, they've done everything they can to lock out independent reviewers with NDAs and closed demonstrations. A friend of mine described it as the gaming equivalent of the perpetual motion scam, and IMO that's spot on (except that Onlive would still have the draconian DRM issues even if it worked perfectly)..
BTW, you pay a monthly fee for the service and then you STILL have to "buy" the games (which of course become useless if your subscription lapses, giving them another leash to choke you with). I'm not kidding.
Onlive appears designed from the ground up to benefit the game publishers and fuck the customers, exactly what you'd expect from any DRM system.
I'm seeing a lot of negativity in the comments so far, but with a low latency connection this would be terrific for strategy games or anything really that didn't require lightening reflexes. Reminder: the OnLive client is basically just a way to stream video, the games are all rendered on the servers, so if the client works then every game that OnLive offers would be available this way. No more booting into Windows to play King's Bounty. My own experience with OnLive was disappointingly unresponsive, but I've got my fingers crossed hard that that was simply my poor connection and not an insurmountable problem.
So why the hate for OnLive, where the equivalent service for movies and TV shows, Netflix, gets tons o' love? In addition to OnLive's all-you-can-eat service with a monthly fee, they also offer a BS option to purchase a lifetime subscription to individual games. This is, obviously, ridiculous. So rather than wasting our energy complaining about it, we ignore that part and recognize the positive for what it is.
Hipsters seem kind of the same way - a zealous obsession with "indie" culture that oddly doesn't seem all that independent-thinking.
(my signature refers to music-specific pragmatism, but I mean that more generally.)
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
... and it works quite well! I get fewer crashes with windows vista/7 than with my Ubuntu.
> This kind of service goes against all my beliefs and every rule for Linux and open source. Not only you don't get source code with the game, you don't even get binaries and data! Once you stop paying, you stop playing. If we support development like this there will soon be nothing else.
Yes. Imagine if they do this with movies! You go into a room, you stare at a screen (you can't even take your own screen in!) if you blink, you can't get back those moments, you have no freedom to pause or rewind _and when you've watched it you have no more rights to rewatch it for the fee you've paid!_. You don't even get rights to the script! How dare they! You can't take the movie, and reedit it! IT GOES AGAINST ALL MY BELIEFS. HEY EVERYONE I READ SOMEWHERE ON THE INTERNET THAT OPEN SOURCE AND SOURCE AND BELIEFS I WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW I READ THIS SO I AM SAYING IT DESPITE BEING A CLUELESS MORON.
If they ever put movies in a room with such restrictive rules, there would be a revolt! Also, what about theatre, can you imagine not being able to stand up and direct the play, YOU'VE PAID! And it should have been FREE and you should be able to edit the script as they are acting! WHAT DRIVEL!
I can imagine onlive taking this one step further - using PHYSICAL BARRIERS, by placing games in BOXES, in dark, prison like rooms, filled with flashing lights to disorient you, then forcing you to put MONEY into the game, and when YOU DIE, it is like YOU DIE IN REAL LIFE, because you have to put more MONEY IN! YOU DON'T EVEN GET THE SOURCE
PEOPLE HELLO I AM SAYING YOU DON'T EVEN GET THE SOURCE CAN YOU HEAR MY ARGUMENT OVER THE SOUND OF ME PARROTING RANDOM THINGS??
> While a kind offer, I have to say no thanks. This kind of service goes against all my beliefs and every rule for Linux and open source. Not only you don't get source code with the game, you don't even get binaries and data! Once you stop paying, you stop playing. If we support development like this there will soon be nothing else. There are many great open source games for Linux, like Battle for Wesnoth, Freeciv and Nethack. Even ID open sources their engines so that people can create many new awesome games. Once OnLine and companies start doing that, don't include abusive DRM and provides source with the game boxes, we can start talking. Until that I rather support indie developers.
What is stopping you playing any game by any labelled developer you like via this technology? HOW you PAY for it is ONE thing, and the technology that puts the image on the screen IS ANOTHER THING, you are GETTING IT ALL CONFUSED.
I'm worried for you too ! How long do you have to come up with a 3 nippled superhero costume? :-P
A lot of the comments on here are pointing out that OnLive is a subscription service. This is not the only pricing plan they have available. Looking at their documentation on "Getting Games in the OnLive Game Service" you will notice their are multiple avenues to purchase a game.
The subscription service they offer is for a collection of ~80 titles. For most newer titles you purchase a pass to play the game. This allows access to the game for a timed interval (think multiple days like renting) or unlimited play. That is a one-time purchase just like if you purchased the title off of Steam or in a retail store. Does the full pass require a subscription? Nope. Please take a look at the documentation and pricing model before making your claims.
The Slippery Slope is a common fallacy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
'nuf said
It's outrageous that they refused to listen to my detailed objections about the insurmountable barriers to provide such a so-called "service", and surmounted them. How dare they have satisfied customers whose only response to my withering criticism is "LULZ can't talk, having 2 much fun."
I do not understand this! This angers me! Cease your operations immediately, OnLive, or I shall be forced to produce yet more charts and diagrams that provide incontrovertible evidence that those sheeple who believe that that are having fun are sadly deluded.
From my parent's basement in Wyoming, I stab at thee!
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
If one has a Mac, for example, this service suddenly opens up dozens of games which the developers would not have released as native any time in the near future.
Macs can run Windows. What difference is there between running a game for Windows on Windows on Boot Camp on a Mac and running a game for Windows on Windows on another company's PC with comparable hardware?
so even if the point of sale goes bust, I still have the game to play.
Until the publisher requires activation to play even single-player and switches off the game's activation server without providing a patch.
open source can still be non-free due to licensing restrictions
What's the substantial difference between a "free software" license as defined by the Debian Free Software Guidelines and an "open source" license as defined by the Open Source Definition?
The "GNU" part is important as without it, the Linux kernel would be nothing
Android gets along fine without GNU. But I agree that "GNU/Linux" is useful for distinguishing a GNU system (which typically includes X11-based graphics) from the Android platform.
The game is decent but feels rushed near the end... but that's not why I registered on slashdot
I would suggest to anyone who hasn't tried it to try some demos. I was concerned at first about input latency and whatnot but any latency of input is small enough that I do not notice it. In addition, latency issues are not necessarily a large concern for me with regards to a single-player experience. I would not want to play Q3 with the any kind of performance drop hanging around my neck, but I simply won't.
The graphics are moderate, but again, that isn't a major concern for me, and it probably runs better than what my current hardware could achieve. Also, these deficiencies are most likely deficiencies in my connection.
subscription fees only exist if you rent the games for 3/5 day periods or if you purchase their playpack for 10$/month. The playpack nets you access to 80ish mid to low end games, but I purchased it for the additional benefit of a 30% discount on new purchases. The discount plus a pre-order of Arkham City, which comes with a coupon for a free Onlive console, or a free game, nets me an eventual purchase of Arkham city and a current purchase of Deus Ex. This falls out to around 44$ for two triple A games, and access for a month to 80 other games and a 30% discount on purchases for a month.
I'm pretty sure that that pricing scheme shakes out as a loss to them, but as it is now, there is no reason not to jump on it.
It boils down to, the service makes sense for me, I don't really care to heavily about latency in a singleplayer environment, I do not place a very strong emphasis on graphics, I'm a cost conscious consumer, and I don't feel like upgrading my system every time a new game comes out. I'm concerned about Onlive going under, but I don't really seeing that happening for a couple years, and so 44$ for a 2 year rental of 2 new releases is an acceptable risk/ price-point for me. If connectivity goes down, I'll just switch to another game.
Also mods, and i'll miss them, but i'm not sure if mods are really in the future for those two games anyway, looking toward Arkham Asylum and other Eidos games as indications.
Well along with gaming on a netbook there's finally some other use for onlive. Pity that Linux users would have to put up with low end settings for games, but at least there are some decent titles now available to them.
"Free Software" protects your four freedoms (as defined by the FSF). Open source does allow you to see the source, but also permits the use of more restrictive licenses.
In the Open Source Definition, criteria 5 and 6 protect freedom 0 under the Free Software Definition, criterion 2 protects freedom 1, criterion 1 protects freedom 2, and criteria 3, 7, and 8 protect freedom 3.
GNU is way, way more that just a host for X11. In fact I wouldn't be surprised to discover that most GNU installs did not even have X11 installed (there's a lot of severs on the planet).
If GNU is primarily a server operating system, then what's the corresponding desktop operating system called?
Wow these comments are from people who do not play any real games.
On the horizon: RedOrchestra 2, Battlefield3, Old Republic... ect.
2gb of RAM? lols thats not even enough for games 5 years ago.
steam is already the best linux cloud gaming service ;)
even without official support for wine
Three tits? Awesome!
Requiring the user to open a terminal and type in convoluted commands to install a simple piece of software is the core reason why Linux will never make it as a desktop OS. Command line interfaces jumped the shark 16 years ago.
Saying it doesn't make it so.
is not that much different from powering on an XBox or Playstation. When I play a game, I'm not also surfing the web or doing word processing, I'm concentrating on killing zombies. If I had an XBox or Playstation, I'd be sitting in front of my TV not my computer, so I'd be in the same boat as when I boot into Windows to play games.
Sure, it'd be nice to have Deus Ex on Linux, but you know what? My game console runs Windows 7, and I have no problem with that.
--- Keep the choice with the user..
I can already VNC to a game console from my Linux boxen. I don't have to pay a monthly fee. I own the game console. I own the game. I can play on line or off. I don't even need to run the VNC client in wine. That being said, I don't know why I would play a game over VNC but there you go.
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
Recently I found out the capabilities of Java. They could just do it all in Java, because it is cross-platform. Writing games for one platform that is already cross-platform means the developers only have to write the game once, and it runs on all systems that the platform supports.