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After Firing CEO, Yahoo Puts Itself Up For Sale

Reeses writes "Fare thee well, Yahoo: In addition to firing CEO Carol Bartz, Yahoo's board has now put the company up for sale. From the article: 'It was once the world's leading search engine, its founders held talks about a merger with Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation – and it even managed to fend off a $44bn takeover bid by Microsoft. But Yahoo has put itself up for sale, after firing its chief executive of 18 months Carol Bartz by phone.'"

34 of 264 comments (clear)

  1. Moral of the story.... by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    if the CEO has no personal deep financial stake in the company's success, then they are worthless.

    Require a CEO to buy a large chunk of your company. IT's why the people that built the company are always far more successful at running it than some idiot that got his masters in Business Administration, and has connections.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:Moral of the story.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The main reason the founders are more successful is that if they're not very good at it, the company never gets off the ground, and you just don't hear about it. Natural selection, let's call it. Unfortunately, you can't choose their successor the same way - you can't have many iterations of the company, each managed by different potential successor, and then choose the best one.

    2. Re:Moral of the story.... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Unfortunately, that theory captures an incomplete picture of the founder effect:

      Requiring the CEO to buy a chunk of the company can provide them with a greater financial stake in the company's success, or it can just provide them with the incentive to axe the R&D department, pump out a few quarters that Wall Street loves, and give themselves a giant bonus in the form of "shareholder value" before moving on...

      If anything, having a CEO without major holdings(and without a "Congratulations, you fucked up!" bonus larger than a peon's lifetime earnings, if that isn't to scary to think about) might actually help ensure that they take the long view; because they don't have the same financial incentive to pump, loot, and leave.

      Founders(except of built-for-acquisition jobs) tend to have major holdings and personal emotional investments, and it takes both to make them do what they do...

    3. Re:Moral of the story.... by SlippyToad · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Better yet, why not bar all forms of golden parachute compensation. If the CEO is fired, they're FUCKING FIRED, not given a huge handjob on the way out the door.

      Our corporate culture rewards failure rather than success, which is why our economy sucks so badly.

      --
      One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
    4. Re:Moral of the story.... by Xest · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So why is Steve Ballmer so shit?

      Honestly, I don't think it's that at all. I think it's that "business" folk in general are shit. They're great at fiddling spreadsheets, and ensuring they get awesome payouts for the most random reasons, and they're great at acquiring companies, ripping them to shreds and making headlines that give investors hardons.

      But to actually innovate and get a company to produce a worthwhile product? No they're fucking useless.

      The reason original founders do well isn't because they have a stake in the company, but because they are genuinely interested in what the company does- they came up with the idea they did because that idea appeals to them personally. This is why Ballmer sucks- because he's a businessman and doesn't give a flying fuck about software, it's why the company did so well under Gates.

      This is why Google dumped Schmidt and handed things back to Larry, because Schmidt is a businessman. He's great at lobbying politicians and so forth, but creating worthwhile and innovative new products? That's not really Schmidt's area of expertise.

      Really you need both to an extent, but there's a common pattern between all these companies who have lost their CEOs who were genuinely interested in the product of their company and replaced them purely with "business leaders" - they've all gone to shit.

    5. Re:Moral of the story.... by WindBourne · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Wrong approach. All employees and executives must NOT own any common stock. Instead, they should have employee stock. Upon getting a job with a company, employee gets a set amount of employee stock. No bonus are given. Instead, dividends are paid to employees or (employees AND common stock). With this approach, all have a common interest in seeing the company make the most money possible over a long term. With your approach, executives have a strong incentive to play the stock market game, instead of focusing on the company's long term gains.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    6. Re:Moral of the story.... by NormalVisual · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It doesn't always work like that though. Case in point - Paul Pressler understood retail very well, and did a fine job running the Disney Store retail subsidiary of the Walt Disney Company. When he was given more responsibility in the form of managing the much larger Parks and Resorts subsidiary, it became quickly and painfully obvious that he didn't understand that market *at all*, and cost the company a lot of money due to his incompetence.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    7. Re:Moral of the story.... by maxume · · Score: 2

      Our economy doesn't suck because of the ways most businesses are run (the ones that stay in business generally manage to at least cover their expenses...).

      Our economy sucks because we cling to the notion that capital and other forms of wealth are scarce, whereas the reality is that productive capacity has reached the point where most needs can be easily met.

      (There are huge disparities in consumption across the world, but I would argue that this is 'merely' an organizational problem, a problem that further enjoys being mired in historical politics, not an actual problem of our civilizations ability to make things)

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    8. Re:Moral of the story.... by backslashdot · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Lou Gerstner .. IBM didn't make him buy a huge chunk of the company .. hell the dude couldnt even operate a computer .. he was the former CEO of Nabisco ... but he turned things around at IBM .. so no huge financial stake isn't the answer. In fact it may lead to greed-based short term decisions.

      Steve Jobs .. he owns more of Disney than he does of Apple .. and took a $1 salary. Obviously his main motive wasn't money ..rather making Apple the greatest company in the history of the world.

      There are plenty of other examples as well. Financial carrots aren't necessarily best. And also, the most important factor is the horse, not the carrot.

    9. Re:Moral of the story.... by gbjbaanb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      seriously, the reason for not airing bad laundry is the interview for the next job - you do not want to turn up to an interview with the guy hiring you reading all about the nasty bitchy things you said about your previous company in the newspaper.

      The board makes decisions you don't like, then quit. The CEO is part of the board don't forget, its not some personal fiefdom where you and only you are the guy who has to do everything. Its not much different from being one of the peons whose boss and/or peers and/or upper management make a decision that you disagree with.

      Payments for leaving despite making an almighty f***up are just plain wrong.

    10. Re:Moral of the story.... by ArhcAngel · · Score: 2

      But this is more common than the Dodo.

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    11. Re:Moral of the story.... by rtaylor · · Score: 3

      There is a huge different in leadership requirements for a startup with zero to 3 employees versus an established firm with several thousand employees

      Very few founders make that transition well. Most founders have a difficult time of letting go of the micromanaging and trying to take part in everything in order to scale beyond themselves.

      --
      Rod Taylor
    12. Re:Moral of the story.... by Antarius · · Score: 2

      Better example: Ray Kroc.

      He took a small hamburger place called "McDonalds" and made it into a slightly bigger hamburger place. You might have heard of it. ;)

    13. Re:Moral of the story.... by swillden · · Score: 2

      Come work for me for free and I'll give you 100% of the employee stock that cannot be traded. You can keep yourself warm and fed by looking at how much value you have in the stock.

      It would have to be dividend-paying stock, or would have to convert to common stock at some point in the far future. But it's not a bad idea, and it might be useful if implemented well.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    14. Re:Moral of the story.... by nschubach · · Score: 3, Interesting

      IE: The Peter Principle.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    15. Re:Moral of the story.... by roman_mir · · Score: 2

      There is a way to FIX the problem of seagull managers, of overpaid CEOs, of underpaid investors, to fix the problem, not to apply band aids to it.

      Stop destruction of money by inflation and stop allowing the Federal reserve to monetize Treasury debt.

      This problem of overpaid CEOs, of non-existing dividend yields is found in USA more than in any other place, and it's because the business shares (corporate bonds) are not bought with a vision of investment, so most people are buying shares to flip them, not to hold them and not be actual investors to get dividends and to participate in the company's success.

      The reason that people are not doing it is because the entire stock market in USA is turned into a giant casino by all this "free" money (it's not really free, you pay for it with insane inflation but the point stays). All this currency that is printed by the Fed and is lent at no interest, combined with the treasury bonds that yield some tiny interest allow making some "safe" steady profit stream (why are all these banks so "profitable" all of a sudden? What, you think they are smart?)

      The problem is that there is no reason to pay dividends to shareholders. The expectation is not of being an investor, but instead of being a short term speculator. The incentive is not to hold an investment to get dividend, but to hope that the purchase will go up in price and to make the difference quickly. The reason is that the inflation is insanely huge - over 10%, close to 13% and it's been there for a long time, easily starting from 1971 (defaulting on the promise to pay gold for reserve notes).

      With an inflation like that nobody can compete in providing a meaningful dividend yield. The money is cheap, so many people just gamble, and they gamble REGARDLESS of whether there is dividend yield or there isn't one, so there is no incentive to pay it.

      Without paying dividends to the investors, the money can be then spent on insane CEO payments and management bonuses.

      The system is broken, but applying band aid solutions won't help until there is a clear understanding why the system is broken.

    16. Re:Moral of the story.... by sootman · · Score: 5, Informative

      > Requiring the CEO to buy a chunk of the company can provide them with a greater
      > financial stake in the company's success, or it can just provide them with the incentive
      > to axe the R&D department, pump out a few quarters that Wall Street loves, and give
      > themselves a giant bonus in the form of "shareholder value" before moving on...
      >
      > If anything, having a CEO without major holdings... might actually help ensure
      > that they take the long view...

      It's not either/or. There are ways to give someone a stake in the company and make it in their best interests to stick around and do good work. From last month's news about Apple's new CEO...

      In connection with Mr. Cook's appointment as Chief Executive Officer, the Board awarded Mr. Cook 1,000,000 restricted stock units. Fifty percent of the restricted stock units are scheduled to vest on each of August 24, 2016 and August 24, 2021, subject to Mr. Cook's continued employment with Apple through each such date.

      At the moment, those one million shares are worth about $400 million. It's entirely possible he'll become a billionaire as Apple's CEO.

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    17. Re:Moral of the story.... by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      seriously, the reason for not airing bad laundry is the interview for the next job - you do not want to turn up to an interview with the guy hiring you reading all about the nasty bitchy things you said about your previous company in the newspaper.

      Depends on the CEO. It's a very small elite group that's very clique-y. Hell, you see board members of one company can be CEOs of others (Eric Schmidt of Google was an Apple board member for a few years until he quit after the iPhone was released). Bad or good, most CEOs find a new job regardless of what they did in the past, or what they said about their previous employer.

      Part of the golden parachute is more as an NDA payment - that you don't take stuff you learned from the previous company and use it in the next one, or air dirty laundry. And face it - read the news - some fired CEO or other is always spouting bad things about the company that fired him. The ones that got paid well, they shut up and take the blame. Both will find new jobs in short order - the CEO that blabbed and the CEO that was blamed for the downfall of the company.

      And yes, the whole NDA/not blabbing costs a lot - the golden parachute can disappear in an instant if the CEO breaks their severance agreement. Even paying back everything that was paid out.

    18. Re:Moral of the story.... by sycorob · · Score: 2

      Yes and no. I'm sure Jobs wasn't digging into the accounting paperwork, or corporate tax preparations, etc as much as he was the actual products. He's good at the product side, and I'm sure he knows it. I could be wrong, maybe he micro-manages every part of the business, but I never heard anything like that. Many founders, on the other hand, DO want to be involved in every part of the company, to the point where everything comes to a screeching halt since every little thing needs their sign-off. And then they get replaced by the board/investors, or the company dies.

    19. Re:Moral of the story.... by SleazyRidr · · Score: 2

      I like the idea of options that can't be exercised for 10 years or so. Even if they don't stay with the company that long it encourages building a sustainable company so the options will be worth something in that long.

  2. I was wondering... by DataDiddler · · Score: 2

    Who still uses Yahoo? I decided to take a quick trip to Alexa to get some sort of info about their demographics: "Relative to the general internet population, people over 65 years old are over represented at yahoo.com. Confidence: high"

    That pretty much explains it. Grandpa learned to use the internet in the late 90's with Yahoo, and any other dangblasted, newfangled search engine won't be built like they used to be.

    --
    Working...
    1. Re:I was wondering... by ThunderBird89 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm 22, and my primary email address is, and has been ever since 1996, a Yahoo, and I find their email front end THE best on the net so far: keyboard shortcuts (even if they recently removed the ability to sort into folders with the number keys alone, they just require one more keypress), easily managed, can generate disposable 'decoy' addresses, and has proper folders instead of Gmail's "Labels" (which also have their merits, but I prefer folders).
      I really hope they won't axe the Mail service, even if they dump everything else, that is one thing worth saving.

      --
      Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
    2. Re:I was wondering... by bahstid · · Score: 2

      Yahoo is still "The Internet" in Japan... weather, shopping auctions = yahoo. Search? About three weeks ago I was trying to help a student with their English google-fu... (I got sucked back in to teaching after the earthquake)... when I asked them to show me how they were trying to search, the first thing they typed into google: yahoo.jp

      Not sure exactly how much of a separate company they are over here though, they were actually one of the biggest early pushers of broadband, handing out free ADSL modems + 6 months free access a few years back outside train stations.

      Wikipedia also tells us the Yahoo Japan did $3.8 billion dollars in revenue last year, so I guess someone is still using it....

  3. On /. by the end of the day by Rik+Sweeney · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Microsoft buys Yahoo

    1. Re:On /. by the end of the day by CSHARP123 · · Score: 2

      What would MS gain by buying Yahoo? They are already serving bing search results. It made sense at that time. Now I don't see much gain for MS from this buy other than for the asian assests that Yahoo may have (Alibaba investment)

  4. Re:YaWho? by Trepidity · · Score: 2

    They own Flickr, which is pretty widely used. It might be a good candidate to be spun back off, though.

  5. Re:Hmm, I might consider it by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've never had fond memories of using Yahoo: their front page has always been bloated, I preferred Altavista search results back when it existed for real, Yahoo made a mess of Egroups when they bought it and turned it into the loathsome Yahoo Groups of today...

    I say good riddance.

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  6. Re:Pooling some money? by Chrisq · · Score: 2

    So, yahoo is up for sale? If everyone empties their pocket change and we pool together we can own a piece of Internet history... ;-)

    Do they accept BitCoins?

  7. Suits x Brains by your_neighbor · · Score: 2

    The old history: Suits are overvalued, the techs are treated like shit. So, the thinking part spreads and the glorified millionary czars believe the company is lacking "quality control" and clutter the place with spreadsheets, metrics and all the control-freak mumbo-jumbo. To improve margins, let's order the salary spreedsheet and fire the better paid employees. Then crap hits the fan, and the omniscient suits don't know what is going on, since the luck has changed so "unpredictably".

    Coward, A., "Traditional recipes for tech saavy inc. failure", vol I, pg 1

  8. Re:Pooling some money? by mrclisdue · · Score: 2

    This dude has a different take on Yahoo, and is actually big on it:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/yahoo-is-an-asian-holding-company-the-next-ceo-should-act-accordingly-2011-9

    cheers,

  9. No fucking different by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 2

    That's no fucking different from any other job. Boss makes a bad call, and you can be eliminated.

    Look at the mass numbers of peons who get laid off or downsized because the CEO or someone higher on the food chain makes a bad call. While the execs and managers are the last ones to be laid off.

    --
    If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
  10. Re:How does a business put itself up for sale? by ErikZ · · Score: 2

    Valuation is just an estimation.

    List the income, liabilities, costs, and monthly profits.

    If you make 1000$ in profit a month, that's a 12k a year business.

    Now, it may be that someone can swoop in and supercharge that business to incredible revenues and profits. But most likely they'll be making 12k a year after they buy it from you. This will help you figure out how much to sell it for. After that though, the terms can be anything.

    As to WHO to sell it to. I'd sell it to a competitor, unless your customers hate them. After that, I'd sell it to a friend who is online savvy and needs the money.

    The problem is, I'm not sure I would buy that business. Imagine you sell it to me for 48k. That would mean I would be working for you, for free, for the next 4 years. Unless I could take that business and increase the profits I would be better off working with my own business. (I also run a small online business, selling downloadable files)

    --
    Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
  11. Icahn gets his way and hands Yahoo to the wolves by Locutus · · Score: 2

    former Yahoo CEO and co-founder Jerry Yang fought to keep Yahoo out of Microsoft's hands but Carl Icahn was too powerful. Although it took three years, he's now won and did what he said he would do in 2008. Oh well, another one bits the dust.

    There seems to be a pattern here. Products and industries where there are many competitors quickly drop to only 2 or 3 competitors when Microsoft comes in and drops billions into their money losing products to "enter" the market. Companies who made enough profits to stay in the market can no longer stay profitable when Microsoft comes in and finances their entry year after year after year with profits from Windows.

    So long Yahoo, it really was nice knowing you.

    LoB

    --
    "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
  12. There are necessary jobs beside engineering by sjbe · · Score: 2

    I think it's that "business" folk in general are shit. They're great at fiddling spreadsheets, and ensuring they get awesome payouts for the most random reasons, and they're great at acquiring companies, ripping them to shreds and making headlines that give investors hardons.

    Sterotypes are easy. If you think "ensuring they get awesome payouts" is an easy thing to do, why aren't you doing it? Fact is that actually starting, running or turning around a business is hard. VERY hard. If you think that "fiddling spreadsheets" is all it takes, you pretty much are admitting you are clueless about how to buy, own, operate, start or sell a business.

    The reason original founders do well isn't because they have a stake in the company...

    Actually founders of business very rarely continue to operate the business once it grows to a significant size. The skill set to start a bootstrap operation and the skill set to run a mid to large sized company are completely different. It is exceedingly rare to find someone like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs who manages to make that transition. Once the company gets large enough to have outside investors it is fairly normal for the founder to step aside or even step away because they quickly get out of their depth. The Google founders hired Schmidt precisely because they knew they did not have the necessary experience or skill set needed to run a large and fast growing company.

    This is why Google dumped Schmidt and handed things back to Larry, because Schmidt is a businessman. He's great at lobbying politicians and so forth, but creating worthwhile and innovative new products? That's not really Schmidt's area of expertise.

    It's not Larry's demonstrated area of expertise either. If it was he'd still be doing engineering. Someone else is making the products. The CEO job is to look at the bigger picture. They make major decisions but they don't create any products. Even Steve Jobs doesn't create the products, he provides feedback and direction but someone else creates the "worthwhile and innovative new products". The only reason Google could hand the job back to Larry is because he's been able to learn from Schmidt for the past decade up close about what it takes to run a company the size of Google. They don't teach that at Stanford, even in the business school. Whether Larry will do well or will make a hash of it remains to be seen.