SAP To Plead Guilty For Downloading Oracle Software

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SAP To Plead Guilty For Downloading Oracle Software

Posted by timothy on Saturday September 10, 2011 @12:26AM from the how-to-imprison-a-corporation dept.

itwbennett writes "Slashdot readers will remember that on Sept. 1, a federal judge overturned a $1.3 billion judgment and approved SAP's request that Oracle accept a lower award of $272 million. Now, according to court documents filed this week, former SAP subsidiary TomorrowNow will plead guilty to criminal charges of copyright infringement for downloading software from Oracle's servers. Sentencing will take place at a hearing on Sept. 14."

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Lucky it wasn't MP3s by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-10 00:50 · Score: 5, Insightful

That would've bankrupted them.
1. Re:Lucky it wasn't MP3s by sgt+scrub · 2011-09-10 01:43 · Score: 1
  
  That would've bankrupted them ...and their children, and grandchildren, and...
  FTFU
  
  --
  Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
2. Re:Lucky it wasn't MP3s by E+IS+mC(Square) · 2011-09-10 02:54 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  FTFY
  FTFY.
Faulty software by jovius · 2011-09-10 01:05 · Score: 1

It seems that the outcome wasn't foreseeable.
free alternatives by Gravis+Zero · 2011-09-10 01:13 · Score: 1

considering there are many high quality open source alternatives that perform quite well, it's silly to pirate Oracle's software.

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1. Re:free alternatives by Splab · 2011-09-10 04:22 · Score: 1
  
  Really? Do tell, only thing I can think of that does anything like any Oracle software is Android vs. JAVA.
  Databases? Postgres does come close, but is still lacking hugely in clustered environments (they have gotten the message and 9 series are getting better, but they are no where near).
  So what alternatives do you mean are matching oracle?
2. Re:free alternatives by sjames · 2011-09-10 07:51 · Score: 1
  
  About half the Oracle installations out there because "We have a high-powered very special application and only the best will do" could actually run OK on Access. There are a few out there who really do need Oracle (a few less if they're willing to do some programming), but there's a lot of Oracle installations that could easily switch.
I'm a little confused... by thePuck77 · 2011-09-10 01:14 · Score: 1

I download stuff from Oracle all the time. What were they downloading that makes them evil wrong and bad?
And yes, I did read the linked articles. All it says was they downloaded software and docs as part of offering support to their clients. Like I said, I do that all the time. What were they downloading that makes it illegal?

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"We live as though the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be." - Joss Whedon via Angel
1. Re:I'm a little confused... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-10 01:20 · Score: 1
  
  Most likely Oracle Database, which requires no CD keys, activation, or any of that, and you can download the full Enterprise Editions right from oracle directly. (the CDs actually are all identical too, it's kind of assumed licensees are honest on the installation screen and actually don't select "Enterprise Edition" when they only own Standard :P)
2. Re:I'm a little confused... by Tauvix · 2011-09-10 01:30 · Score: 2
  
  From what I can tell, it's not that they downloaded freely available software; it's that they downloaded software behind a paywall - certain patches, etc, only available via a support contract.
  I believe the crux of the issue would be that SAP was downloading and providing those patches to other companies wholesale, in the course of providing a competing service. So, SAP had a support contract with Oracle, and then using the resources of that support contract to provide services that allowed other companies to get all the benefits of the support contract without paying for it.
  I can see why Oracle might be a little grumpy about this. It would be different if SAP was making their own patches and support documents and providing those.
  The DOJ is also likely involved because of the sheer dollar amount of the support contracts that they allowed customers to circumvent buying.
3. Re:I'm a little confused... by sgt+scrub · 2011-09-10 01:41 · Score: 2
  
  I download stuff from Oracle all the time. No shit! How long before we find out it is the same bullshit Cisco pulled with updates to equipment? ie. "You downloaded an update of IOS for the hardware you bought without paying for an account to access the updates" == "You downloaded updates for OCI" or whatever the fuck it was they used.
  
  --
  Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
4. Re:I'm a little confused... by mabhatter654 · 2011-09-10 02:07 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  First, it wasn't "SAP" but a support company SAP bought, then discovered was doing this after the deal was done. Oracle waited to sue SAP and not the tiny little company SAP bought.
  The company was using it's one customer support connection to Oracle's website to support OTHER ORACLE CUSTOMERS that needed security patches locked behind a paywall.
  Unfortunately, the suit doesn't address the real problem.. Of Oracle structuring "support" rates as their own little piggy bank... How many companies have "maintenance" as X% of "current market price" ... Then jack that price to 200% and grant "discounts" to anybody shopping for NEW licenses.
  My own company ran into this with some other companies software that wanted more for "hardware transfer" and " maintenance" in one year than we paid for the initial license. The yearly "20%" is more like 50% of what we initially paid...
  Should alert the purchasing managers that they need to limit "yearly increase" to 5% or an audit of their "sold" pricing for the year. Gotta be clever! The FUN companies are ones that want you to may maintenance AND separately for UPGRADES.
5. Re:I'm a little confused... by hey! · 2011-09-10 02:51 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I once worked for a company that was sort of in that position. We were supposed to become Oracle reseller and we'd gone through all the steps of becoming a reseller but one: taking the exam on Oracle licensing policies.
  Nobody on the sales team wanted to take the exam, but everyone assumed that because they *intended* to give Oracle the money *eventually*, it would be OK to go ahead and sell the product. Technicians were going onto customer sites with CDs or Oracle products they'd burned and were installing it assuming everything would be OK.
  Since I was the only person who didn't think everything would be OK, I stepped in and took the exam. First I had to watch about four hours of "training videos" (this is not an exaggeration). These were films of the extremely un-charismatic Oracle licensing committee members sitting around a conference table discussing (in a monotone) all the things that you weren't allowed to do. There was no other option because there was no written documentation of the policies available for those of us who like to read. It wasn't hard to ace the exam, though. You could figure out most of the things by remembering that Oracle's philosophy is to never give a sucker a break.
  
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  Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
6. Re:I'm a little confused... by thePuck77 · 2011-09-10 02:56 · Score: 1
  
  Ah, thanks, that explains everything.
  
  --
  "We live as though the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be." - Joss Whedon via Angel
7. Re:I'm a little confused... by Travelsonic · 2011-09-10 06:55 · Score: 1
  
  I see your red herring, and call you out.
  
  --
  If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
8. Re:I'm a little confused... by Pieroxy · 2011-09-10 09:51 · Score: 1
  
  For you too? That's great. I'm waiting for this to sink in.
  
  --
  Write boring code, not shiny code!
9. Re:I'm a little confused... by rta · 2011-09-10 15:29 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, the world of enterprise software/hardware pricing and licensing is "interesting" that way. You really have to look at TCO type numbers rather than initial price due to the various schemes that marketing departments have come up with.
  Sad thing is though that even though you have to pay for support in order to get the patches and upgrades, if you actually have any problems the support is usually pretty useless if you already have decently good people in-house. Say you run into a bug with Oracle DB... are they going to fix it ? Maybe if you're the federal government or something. Otherwise it's like anywhere else. For a long while they'll tell you it's not their fault. Then if you're persistent enough and jump through enough hoops they'll admit that it is a real bug.... and then it'll sit there for months and years. By the time it's fixed it's irrelevant for your project and probably for your product overall. Heck at today's pace your company may already be gone altogether by the time they get around to doing something about it (though really only big slow moving companies buy Oracle nowadays so that's not as true as it was during bubble 1.0). Smaller companies are usually better since they actually care about your small company 5 and 6 figure purchases unlike the big guys.
hu wha? by sgt+scrub · 2011-09-10 01:35 · Score: 2

I can see criminal charges for this "Unauthorized Access to a Protected Computer with Intent to Defraud and Obtaining Something of Value" but this "criminal infringement of a copyright"? Why do I have the feeling their "access to the protected computer" was a machine containing content they once shared using the same passwords they had when they had a partnership with Oracle? It is that feeling one gets when a corporate spokes person opens their mouth. ~Shiver~ And wtf is up with criminal infringement of a copyright? Did they hold a gun to someone's head while infringing? Sure, sue the fuck out of them for making money off of your work but criminal charges?!?

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Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
1. Re:hu wha? by lgarner · 2011-09-10 06:02 · Score: 1
  
  Many torts are, or are similar to, crimes.
They should get exactly the same punishment.... by SwedishChef · 2011-09-10 02:20 · Score: 1

as the bankers got for defauding investors....
Oh... wait...

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No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!
1. Re:They should get exactly the same punishment.... by Opportunist · 2011-09-10 02:26 · Score: 1
  
  We were pondering that for a moment, but realized that that could really be the last straw on the budget's back.
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Re:Was the award due to lost sale? by Opportunist · 2011-09-10 02:24 · Score: 1

No, but in this case, with a definite commercial interest in the illegal download, I can understand the fine.

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We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Understandable Verdict by Nerdfest · 2011-09-10 02:30 · Score: 1

I always feel guilty when I download Oracle software too.
1. Re:Understandable Verdict by davester666 · 2011-09-10 05:17 · Score: 1
  
  Really? I feel dirty when I download it, and then violated when I install and run it.
  
  --
  Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Re:Was the award due to lost sale? by UnknowingFool · 2011-09-10 04:25 · Score: 1

Lost sales to potential Oracle customers is the part you are missing.

[Lost sales] quantified by Oracle's expert at $408.7 million, and alternatively at $272 million, and by SAP's expert at $28 million
The judge is taking the middle number.

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Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Corporations are not people! by wealthychef · 2011-09-10 07:24 · Score: 1

How can a company be found guilty of something? I hate this legalese bullshit. We need to clearly distinguish between corporations and people in our laws. The conflating of the two is a corrupting influence.

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Currently hooked on AMP
SAP as in.. by otuz · 2011-09-10 08:58 · Score: 1

Socially Awkward Penguin ?
and our tax money goes by decora · 2011-09-10 14:38 · Score: 1

to support alot of it.
you can't copyright basic facts by decora · 2011-09-10 14:49 · Score: 1

1. you cant copyright basic facts. this goes back to Feist v Rural Telephone.
2. breaking 'terms and conditions' is not a violation of the CFAA, its probably a violation of copyright law. but EULAs are not always enforcable in the US.
3. if Oracle's business model is based on copyrighting their user manual, (rather than say, building good products, having good customer service, and a good marketing department) then they should have disclosed that to their investors in their SEC filings, otherwise the Oracle executives who signed off on those SEC filings should be prosecuted for Securities Fraud.
Let that be a lesson to everyone by Hyperhaplo · 2011-09-11 15:54 · Score: 1

TomorrowNow will plead guilty to criminal charges of copyright infringement for downloading software from Oracle's servers
Now, if only everyone who downloaded and used Oracle software could be found guilty ... :-)
Yes, I'm a fan of DB2 and dislike what Oracle have done as a corporation recently. Can you tell?

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