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Jobs Bill Funds Safety Network With Spectrum Sale

CWmike writes "President Barack Obama's American Jobs Act would allow the FCC to conduct so-called incentive auctions, in which the agency would share the proceeds of a spectrum auction with television stations that voluntarily give up their spectrum. The goal would be to raise $6.5 billion to fund a nationwide voice and data network for police, fire departments and other emergency responders. Lawmakers and other groups have called for a nationwide public safety network since emergency responders had trouble communicating with each other during the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorists attacks on the U.S."

25 of 147 comments (clear)

  1. You mean like 700Mhz? by russotto · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You know, the last time Congress took a bunch of spectrum from TV and allocated some of it to public safety? The D block is still unused, right?

    The only thing going on here is an attempt by the Verizons and Comcasts of the world to eliminate competition. (of course Comcast-owned NBC channels would be first to give up their OTA allocations). Public safety is a transparent excuse.

    1. Re:You mean like 700Mhz? by evought · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Public safety is a transparent excuse.

      True. The muti-state "public safety network" here is 6m; Storm-chasers and fire watch is 2m. That's what ARES is for. It's simple, reliable technology and there are good volunteers to run it. Our local Sheriff recently remarked that the feds are trying to shove narrow band digital radios down the counties' throats. The proffered radios are expensive, overwhelmingly benefit one corp, and perform poorly in this terrain (the digital radios tend to be all or nothing; in much of rural MO, you can get a poor but comprehensible analog signal further, at least with current equipment). Switching will either hurt strained county budgets or the strained federal deficit (if subsidized) and will mean other services don't happen.

    2. Re:You mean like 700Mhz? by Culture20 · · Score: 4, Funny

      The proffered radios are expensive, overwhelmingly benefit one corp, and perform poorly in this terrain (the digital radios tend to be all or nothing; in much of rural MO, you can get a poor but comprehensible analog signal further, at least with current equipment).

      But they work in New York City. Do you *want* more people to die from 9/11? That's what Obama is trying to prevent in this Steve Jobs bill. Think of the children's livers!

    3. Re:You mean like 700Mhz? by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      Analog-only radios are awfully limited though. Can they even send text-messages to each other? It could certainly be useful for them to be able to send text, photos, or see a map with everybody's location on it, for example. I don't know if they'll be getting, but it should be, the DoD has paid companies lots of money to work all this out over the years.

      Yes, you can. Again, hams have done it.

      Text messaging - packet radio. Operates on HF, VHF, UHF.

      Photos - slow-scan TV. HF, VHF, UHF.

      Locations - APRS (really just a special form of packet radio with GPS).

      And none of this is new - most are relatively old and simple technology, over analog radio.

      The best part is, the equipment is available now, relatively simple to understand, relatively cheap and easily available. Heck, there probably are handheld radios that support all the above with maybe a computer paired with it.

  2. Here we go again... by f16c · · Score: 2

    Isn't that one of the reasons for the digital TV conversion? I recall that as one of the reasons to change the spectrum layout last time. How much more do they need anyway? The reason for a lack of communication before was a lack of planning as much as anything else.

    --
    bob@Osprey:~>
  3. Don't need more spectrum by superid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm an EMT, there are 5 radios in my ambulance. I don't need more ways to talk to people. I need policies, documentation, good equipment, and most of all consistent interoperability training between multiple departments and jurisdictions. I really don't think the fix is more spectrum.

  4. It's all good. by FooAtWFU · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The jobs bill is a joke. It's not going to be passed. It exists so that Obama can say "Look, I did a jobs bill, and this obstructionist do-nothing Congress wouldn't pass it!" You could say it's the kickoff to the Obama 2012 campaign.

    (I make no comment here on the value of the actual policies contained in the jobs bill, merely on the motives of those proposing it and its chances in Congress.)

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    1. Re:It's all good. by FooAtWFU · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Herein I will criticize the jobs package.

      There are going to be some tax breaks starting Soon (late 2011) for small businesses and workers. At the end of 2012, these tax breaks will expire. Also, the Bush tax cuts will expire (increasing tax on the bracket from 35% to 42% and the tax on long-term capital gains from 15% to 20%). There will also be another 0.9% Medicare tax on income over $200,000, and a 2.9% surcharge on investment income. Also, the government will raid charity for ~$400 billion (lesser tax deductions). Also,

      So a small business owner is supposed to see these 16-month tax breaks and go "Yay! I'm going to create some jobs!"

      Also, job training. Do me a favor. Go look up some former job programs like MDTA, CETA and JTPA and see how well they worked (and the current program, WIA) and tell me with a straight face that this is going to help the economy.

      Also, more stimulus-style spending. Because the last round worked so very very well, and we know that paying it back in the future isn't going to be a problem at all nosiree Bob.

      So the jobs act is a joke, but it would be worse if it were serious.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    2. Re:It's all good. by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 2

      ... the motives of those proposing it

      Amazing how many people delude themselves into thinking they can read minds. I'm constantly hearing attacks on the president asserting intimate knowledge of his motives. "The president hates America, the president is wants to destroy America, blah, blah, blah."

      I would like to tell these people that they really can't read minds, and everyone would be better served by commenting on actual policies.

    3. Re:It's all good. by FooAtWFU · · Score: 2
      The difference between "investing" and what the government is doing when it spends money on stimulus is this: when you invest $1, you expect to get more than $1 of useful stuff back - and probably more. You want to get the most bang for your buck. When the government spends $1, they go out of their way to get as little bang for the buck as possible, so that they can spend more. For instance,

      In one redolent example, a federal contractor said he was told to use smaller, nonstandard tiles that are harder and more expensive to install in order to increase the cost of the project.

      (-- Why the Stimulus Failed, in The Wall Street Journal, c.f. also No Such Thing as Shovel-Ready and Did Stimulus Dollars Hire the Unemployed?)

      I'll give you something, through. It's true that the money is "free" until the world economy actually thaws and people demand interest for their money again. But come on -- what are the odds of that happening? :b

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    4. Re:It's all good. by LordLimecat · · Score: 2

      How the heck do you measure saved jobs? Someone want to explain that for me?

      I DO recall promises that the unemployment rate wouldnt hit certain milestones, and THOSE promises were reneged on.

  5. Spectrum should be leased, not sold by Solandri · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It belongs to the public. A single entity should not get exclusive access to the spectrum in perpetuity. They should have to pay an annual lease on it to continue using it.

    This also prevents companies from buying up spectrum to stifle competition. If they lease large amounts of spectrum which they then don't use, the bid price on the remainder will go up. The government can then use that bid price to raise the lease price for all spectrum in subsequent years, making it too expensive for companies to continue sitting on that spectrum. It's the same concept behind property taxes in real estate - by raising the price to own property in a highly desirable area, you force the owners to do something useful with the property rather than sitting on it as a speculative or anti-competitive move.

    1. Re:Spectrum should be leased, not sold by FooAtWFU · · Score: 2

      When you actually use spectrum, you have equipment (wireless radios and stuff) that becomes useless if the spectrum gets taken away. You can't just repurpose arbitrary hardware to operate on new frequencies. You need different chips, different antennas, and probably new deployment studies so you know where there's coverage - not to mention the actual work of going out there and reconfiguring or reinstalling everything. Spectrum is much more useful (and valuable) when you can be sure that it's going to stick around for a while.

      Besides, at another level, you can convert between income streams and lump sums using the wonders of Economics. A billion dollars in the Treasury is ~$35 million a year in interest charges that the government doesn't have to pay (using recent interest rates for the 30-year Treasury bond).

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  6. Liberty by gd2shoe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Oh, I don't know. I think some Democrats actually believe they're taking away our liberty for our own good. That makes them every bit as dangerous and culpable*, just not as numerous. They're not to be easily dismissed.

    *(... as dangerous and culpable as money-grubbing Democrats and Republicans. Yes, both.)

    --
    I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
    1. Re:Liberty by Rockoon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think some Democrats actually believe they're taking away our liberty for our own good. That makes them every bit as dangerous

      No, it makes them more dangerous. A corporation may turns its sights away from us towards greener pastures, but someone that believes that they are "helping" us.. they will never turn their sights away. Its the worst possible evil.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  7. Spectrum sale? by rossdee · · Score: 2

    I never owned a Spectrum, it had a terrible keyboard. Back in those days I had a Commodore 64

  8. Problem? by SexyKellyOsbourne · · Score: 2

    Just dial 9.1.1.1!

    Or in the IPv6 world, 0009:0001:0001:0001:0001:0001:0001:0001.

  9. So said C.S. Lewis by tsotha · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."

    1. Re:So said C.S. Lewis by Wildclaw · · Score: 2

      The funny part of that quote is how it is misused in US politics to crack down on Democrats.

      Which is quite laughable as the "omnipotent moral busybody" pretty much perfectly describes most Republicans who are driven by their ideology and moral believes. (there are exceptions of course, but the mainstream Republican is very much characterized in that way)

      Democrats on the other hand tend to be the far more practical robber barons. Economic decisions are made to minimize the chance of rebellion, and the moral decisions they impose tend to be about protecting themselves or those they hold dear. Something any practical robber baron would do.

  10. When I read the title by abednegoyulo · · Score: 2

    and seing the keywords Jobs, Bill, and networks, for a minute there I thought of a different content of the article.

  11. Re:Still trying by FooAtWFU · · Score: 2
    He's talking about the crap that Obama called a "jobs bill" that this spectrum plan is attached to - the one paying for 16 months' worth of temporary payroll tax incentives (woo, comma, hoo) with permanent tax increases (conveniently postponed until 2013, after the general election).

    He also refers to Obama's previous stimulus efforts, ObamaCare, and the campaign premise of "spread the wealth around", calling these policies "Bolshevik" - a simple application of rhetoric, comparing these ideas with others who called for redistribution measures, with disastrous consequences.

    I mean, if you'd like to dispute those characterizations and the validity of his premises, that's one thing, but if you actually found that confusing, you're probably not smart enough to be talking about politics on the Internet.

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  12. Jobs are made by new businesses by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Obama and everyone else in the government have it wrong.

    Giving money to existing businesses will not create jobs. Existing businesses already have the employees they need to create their product, and if you give them money in a bad economy they will hoard it waiting for the economy to get better. (This is not 100% true in all cases, but as a general rule it works very well.)

    You get jobs from new businesses. New businesses grow to accommodate production - once a business can meet demand for it's product or service, growth essentially stops.

    New businesses come from innovation on top of infrastructure.

    Most innovation is an incremental improvement in an existing product. Your company makes perfusion pumps. If you can make the same pump but 5% smaller, or 5% lighter, or 5% cheaper, or lasts 50% longer - that's generally good enough to start a business.

    Innovation:

    Patents are largely impossible for the small business right now. They are expensive and don't afford any sort of protection. Patent descriptions are so broadly written and subject to so much interpretation that it is likely that any innovation you make is covered by numerous patents. There are trolls out there ready to take everything away once you've done all the hard work.

    Any similarities between your product and an existing product will net you a copyright violation.

    Infrastructure:

    The criminal laws are so broadly written and subject to so much interpretation that enforcement has become largely discretionary. Local prosecutors are not held responsible for bringing merit-less cases to court, so be sure not to piss anyone off in the government.

    The regulatory laws are broadly written and subject to interpretation, and again enforcement has become largely discretionary (viz: Gibson and Martin)

    The cell phone network only covers metropolitan areas, and is so unstable that Apple can come out with a popular product (IPhone 1.0) and overload the system, making it impossible to make calls. In Manhattan (!)

    High speed internet is only available in metropolitan areas, and is so overloaded that the carriers are implementing rationing (aka data caps).

    Our electric system is old and outdated - by some estimates 20% of the generated power is wasted because we can't route it efficiently.

    Our postal system is expensive and somewhat unreliable, yet we can't let more efficient companies (UPS and FedEx) deliver mail.

    Our air travel rules are so invasive and abhorrent that people refuse to use it. Good luck getting your sales people to other cities, or sending an engineer to work out problems with a vendor.

    Our tax structure is so complicated that it requires expert advice and constant vigilance for compliance. With Amazon giving in to external states demands to collect sales tax, expect this to get a lot worse before it gets better. Every cash-strapped state, county, and local town will be all over the net looking for their cut.

    About the only piece of infrastructure in the US that seems to be OK is the interstate highway system.

    Any single one of these can be considered minor, or could be ignored or dealt with by accommodation. Allocate some funds to hire a CPA, or a lawyer, or patent searcher, or whatever.

    Taken in concert, the whole package puts a severe chilling effect on business growth in the US. That's why we don't have jobs any more, that's why the economy is taking so long to turn around.

    We just don't have it any more.

  13. Unacceptable by Space · · Score: 3, Informative

    I volunteer with a fire department in rural east Texas. None of the area volunteer fire departments want the new networks the cities keep pushing for. There is an 800MHz trunked network used by a few local law enforcement officers. There are only five carrier frequencies on that system and more than five departments using the network. If my department was on that same network and we were in a burning building and needed to communicate with the pump operator we are not guaranteed to be able to transmit. A fire fighter could burn up because the local PD was busy checking a license plate. Unacceptable.

    --
    I Don't Work Here
  14. Jobs Destruction Act by roman_mir · · Score: 2

    PDF

    Government Oversight Committee

    Obama's Jobs Destruction Act

    In his speech Obama didn't say "stimulus" once. He wants to stay away from that word, last stimulus was a failure and unpopular.

    Of-course deficits that finance the stimulus destroy more jobs than the tax cuts create.

    None of it is paid for, cuts from future increases is not paying for anything, but there is net increase in deficit (and it's underestimated) 450 Billion USD year 2011.

    Debt ceiling now will have to be raised again obviously next year, because this is 450Billion that are not accounted for in the last debt ceiling increase.

    Tax credit for hiring people who are unemployed for more than 6 months. So now employers will have incentive NOT to hire anybody who hasn't been unemployed for 6 months :)

    More unemployment!

    7.25 - is minimum wage. 4000USD is given as tax credit, and you have to keep the person for 6 months minimum.
    So hiring somebody at 7.25USD/hour and given 4000USD credit reduces minimum wage to 3.40USD/hour.

    Minimum wage will be reduced, and so there WILL be more employment, but some people will be FIRED to give more space for new minimum wage hires because of the tax credit.

    Bill will make it illegal to discriminate against long term unemployed. So what will happen is that people who are long term unemployed will NOT be interviewed. Who wants to have a lawsuit on their hands?

    If anybody is unemployed for 4-5 months, now there is a reason not to hire them right away, to interview them and to keep them on UI for another 1-2 months and then to get the tax credit once they are at 6 months unemployment time.

    Of-course fire anybody after 6 months, get new hires. It's all going to be minimum wage jobs, nobody who is hiring people at good salaries will care about 4000USD tax credit.

    The 1 year cut in SS payroll tax will make SS that much more broke (it's broke now, but it can be made worse.)

    To pretend that there is SS "trust fund", gov't will borrow money, put it into "trust fund", borrow from "trust fund" and spend it on stimulus. Many lies all around.

    If you hire a returning veteran, the tax credit is 5600USD. Applied to minimum wage, it makes minimum wage 1.87USD/hour. This creates huge government incentive to have very high turnover.

    Payroll taxes will be lost on existing jobs, ha ha. They'll have to print more money.

    For returning veterans with injuries (wounded warrior), you get 9600USD tax credit. For a minimum wage job this makes the pay a NEGATIVE ONE :) -1.98USD/hour.

    Hire as many wounded warriors as possible immediately and just pay them, but the employer gets 1.98/hour for every new hire. Hire all of them and have the Fed monetize the debt that will be created paying these tax credits.

    How do you like them apples?

    1. Re:Jobs Destruction Act by roman_mir · · Score: 2

      "last stimulus was a failure" False - it stimulated, per CBO and other credible analysis.

      - Since when is CBO credible? Is it since they release their rosy projections of future spending based on unrealistic growth projections?

      GPD is fake.
      CPI is fake.
      Unemployment numbers are fake.

      Dollar per dollar stimulus destroys more jobs than it creates specifically because the spending on government jobs removes investment opportunity in the real economy for jobs that actually could decrease the trade deficit and debt. It's a multiplier effect in reverse, every dollar spent by government is dollar either removed from economy by inflation, which brings monetary destruction closer, or it's money borrowed, which is deferred taxation and it still brings the monetary destruction closer, as short term interest rates will not be allowed to move up, because paying the interest on the debt becomes impossible, but this will blow up in the face, once this beach ball of actual real interest rates comes rushing from under water of the artificially low interest created by federal reserve printing and buying up debt.

      SS is bankrupt right now, it was always a ponzi scam, but now it's it's just leaving the space of ridiculous and coming to the sublime, with government trying to pretend there is a 'fund', so it borrows, puts the borrowed money into this so called 'fund', then borrows from the 'fund', all to create an illusion that there are ASSETS in the 'fund'. Government can't pay for anything, it's completely broke and it doesn't allow economy to fix itself by allowing it to have an actual recession, which is the fix the problem, not printing more currency.

      SS is broke now, it takes in less money than it pays out. 1.87 fully employed workers in USA are paying to 1 beneficiary - an all time low.

      I left a comment earlier describing how Reagan (the biggest disappointment of a POTUS) "fixed" SS by raising taxes (20% on all, 140% on high earners, while means testing and cutting benefits of high earners).

      So if that's how you "fix" this pyramid, then you know it's the only fix, the only right thing to do is to allow people to opt out and see how many would.

      GDP is fake, it's being in steady decline of about 10% per year for a decade, this is because CPI is fake, it's over 10-13% inflation in reality, and GDP is 70% consumption of goods made abroad (so much for Domestic in GDP).

      Summary: there is no difference between macro and micro economics. As I said if you ask Krugman, he'll tell you that wars, tsunami and alien invasion is good, because it "creates stimulus", but if you ask him would he want his own house destroyed to create stimulus, he'd tell you now. Because that's MICRO economics.

      What's good for the goose, good for the gander. The difference between micro and macro is BS in economics as much as it is BS in evolution.

      Here is what a regulation looks like. Read and weep, this may be the only time you'll have an opportunity to be an 'employer', to hire a babysitter, and if that passes and you are in California, you'll quickly learn why hiring people is so dangerous in USA, why now everybody is trying their hardest not to hire anybody.