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Why Star Wars Should be Left to the Fans

Aguazul writes "The BBC has an interesting take on George Lucas's meddling with our memories: 'Fans of Star Wars are not happy. Someone has been tampering with their movie history.' They speculate on who really owns a piece of art. Even the artist doesn't really know what he's created, and a work doesn't become 'something' until given value by an audience: 'the artist is merely the medium for his or her work.' Many people contributed to the Star Wars trilogy. Is Lucas' over-inflated idea of his own importance in the process the reason he is stopping people seeing the unmodified originals?"

22 of 425 comments (clear)

  1. All I can say is... by Crookdotter · · Score: 4, Funny

    Noooooooo!!!!!!!

    1. Re:All I can say is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I dont mind him messing with it. In fact the tweaks are somewhat interesting.

      However, why does he just not release the originals? I mean a directors cut thrown in with the originals and *NO* one would have bitched at all. Instead we just see the tweaked versions.

      I honestly like the way they did Raiders. That was decently done. I guess he wanted people to remember some commercial he did in the 90s and not call him a liar I guess.

    2. Re:All I can say is... by Truekaiser · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's what he did in the late 90's when he released the special editions of the 4,5,and 6. I full support the idea of the star-wars franchise universe taken out of his hands and in it's place give him a box of crayons to play.

    3. Re:All I can say is... by interval1066 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He learned from Star Wars to have a completely filled-in mythology rather than patchwork in extensions to the story. I think the success of Star Wars caught him and the studio by surprise. Its pretty obvious that he had to patch most of the subplots. For example I can tell from the first film that Princess Leia's home Planet was Organa, had always been Organa, and her father was waiting for her on Organa before Tarkin blew it all to hell, and he WAS NOT Vader. I know; she would have referred to him as her father and not her step father, but still, I'm not speaking to familial references, but plots and story lines and what seems reasonable and logical. Lucas had no intention of tying Vader and Leia together until AFTER Episode V was in the word processor (maybe typewriter still then). I think the connection between Luke, Leia, and Vader is a stretch so thin it pretty much snaps by the time Revenge comes out, and the numbering of all six films (begins with 4 and ends with 3?) is ridiculous. Brilliant if you're making one film, really kind of a mess if you had planned on six (or was it 9?) films all along.
      As further evidence of this the tie-in using Shmi Skywalker and Cliegg Lars is pretty obviously forced- wedged in like a wrench in a cheesecake but was necessary to get "Aniken" (young Darth) tied up in Luke's & Leia's lives. As we have some idea of just how vast the universe is happenstance like that, (planned or not) is just ridiculous.
      I'm not a hater, just sayin' Y'all can argue if you want; but there's only one man who knows the truth and he ain't gonna talk.
      To show I'm not a hater I think the casting of Ewan McGregor as the young Kenobi was brilliant. He did a very good job.

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    4. Re:All I can say is... by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If that was a reason anyone could accept, Metropolis would have gotten a makeover years ago and the old one would have been destroyed.

      The charm and a lot of the value those original versions of Star Wars had was due to the limitations and how they managed to work around them. The first scene (ya know, where Leia's ship gets badgered by a Star Destroyer) was awesome at the time, I remember how the theater went wild at the very first scene of the movie just from it being so awesome. Today, of course it isn't as impressive anymore, we're used to such scenes by now. But that's not what made the movie a classic. What did was that in its time it had the maybe best and certainly some of the most impressive special effects. Giving them a makeover does of course improve them, but it also cheapens them. Today, this is something every second movie will show. And I'm not talking about the "old" special effects, I'm talking about the remakes.

      Yes, the redos make the movie look less impressive. Not more. Less. It becomes yet another space opera movie. The special effects introduced later are nothing special anymore, they're a staple of the industry. What made them impressive was that they could pull them off in that time without the aid of perfect CGI, with a lot of work and detailed models. That's what made it special and great.

      Take any Anderson TV show (talking about their real, not puppet, shows, namely Space 1999 and UFO). By today's standards, of course the special effects look dated and, at best, cute. What makes both shows a classic and made them develop a cult following was that they put a LOT of work into it to make it believable with the limited means of the times.

      Just like with Star Wars. Star Wars produced today would simply be yet another SciFi movie. The same special effects as anyone, and let's be blunt, the story is nothing special, it's an average fantasy story that's been transported into a SciFi setting, which has been done before and since. Today, with the "augmented" effects, it would probably drown in the rest of the genre. And, well, the second trilogy shows that quite well.

      What makes Star Wars the classic it is, is, that it was ahead of its time, that it set a standard few productions could meet for years to come. And in this standard it should be preserved. Yes, it looks dated. Of course it does, it's more than a quarter century old. But "augmenting" it cheapens the achievement, it cheapens the experience. There is of course nothing wrong with giving the movie a makeover and offering that augmented versions additionally, but the original one should be preserved.

      To close the circle, do you think anyone would remember Metropolis today if it had been redone and remodeled every decade to update the technology? I mean, it's not like that movie has such a great story either.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:All I can say is... by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Funny

      Think again. He could use those crayons to write the books for yet another prequel/sequel/whatever.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:All I can say is... by mug+funky · · Score: 5, Insightful

      to say nothing of the poor buggers that did those stunning model shots, only to find no remaining example of their work to show their grandchildren.

      i bet Lucas even removed their names from the credits.

  2. To Promote Progress by dcollins · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 of the United States Constitution, known as the Copyright Clause: "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."

    I think that's a reasonable and praiseworthy understanding of what art, and copyright ownership, should be for. The time of creator-control should be "limited" to something like 14 or 28 years (one generation), as was originally intended. Afterward, it belongs to the world.

    --
    We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    1. Re:To Promote Progress by Ihmhi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think in our modern age 14 years is unreasonable and even 28 years is downright insane.

      Let's say we never changed it from the maximum 28 years. This year we would see the following films entering the public domain (examples are the top ten grossing films in 1983): Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi, Terms of Endearment, Flashdance, Trading Places, Wargames, Octopussy, Sudden Impact, Staying Alive, Mr. Mom, Risky Business.

      Nostalgia factors aside, I wouldn't exactly call those "culturally relevant" to the modern age - things move way, way faster now. Sure, in the late 1700s a book written 28 years prior would probably still be quite popular and very relevant to the times.. but the times changed faster and faster.

      Something like 1 year would be more fair to all parties in my opinion, at least on an item-by-item basis. Don't most movies, games, music albums, etc. make the vast majority of their money in the first few months? Sequels wouldn't be affected because they would be filed under a new copyright.

  3. Someone else who agrees by Daetrin · · Score: 5, Informative
    Rob Bricken of Topless Robot found someone else who agrees that artists should stop trying to meddle with their art after releasing it... George Lucas from 1988. He gave a speech to Congress about the issue in which he said, among other things,

    "The public's interest is ultimately dominant over all other interests."

    and

    "Attention should be paid to the interest of those who are yet unborn, who should be able to see this generation as it saw itself, and the past generation as it saw itself."

    --
    This Space Intentionally Left Blank
  4. The Creator has complete Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    It is morally right that the creator of a work should have complete control over it for all time immemorial. You don't see people messing with The Iliad -- it exists today in exactly the same format that Homer wrote it down, and the changes that he penciled in to later editions have been faithfully reproduced. The same is true with the plays of Shakespeare, which are always performed with exactly the same script and stage directions that the Bard himself took to the copyright office before the original performances. And music also has never been altered after composition -- the composers intent is always honored by the performer, and the audience would demand no less.

    I don't see any reason we should give Lucas any less than the complete and total control over his creations enjoyed by Homer, Shakespeare, and Bach. To afford him anything else would be tragic.

  5. Re:I have seen the Blu-ray releases by penguinstorm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Uh, no. Your cell phone does not produce better footage than a 335mm film camera.

    The film stock might have aged badly due to poor preservation, but that is not the same thing at all.

    --
    Skot Nelson music is my saviour / i was maimed by rock and roll
  6. I recently downloaded the laserdisk versions by arcite · · Score: 4, Insightful

    off of bittorent. My childhood memories are now restored. No more CGI blinking Ewoks, no more yelling darth, no more han shoots last. So to all the fans out there, relax and just download the originals (besides, I already paid for them decades ago on VHS).

  7. Saving Star Wars: The Special Edition Restoration by farnsworth · · Score: 5, Informative

    There is an exellent article outlining what Lucas has done to the original negative. tl;dr: in the 90's Lucas restored the negative of the original release, and then subsequently nearly completely butchered it while at the same time destroying all copies of the theatrical release (except privately owned vhs and laserdisks, of course). At this point the only thing that exists is a 1080p scan of the film. All of the restored negative does still exist, though. It's just not assembled into something that could produce anything. It is possible to re-assemble that restoration, which by all accounts is stunning.

    --

    There aint no pancake so thin it doesn't have two sides.

  8. Re:Artists rule, but there's a limit by fyonn · · Score: 5, Informative

    I think an interesting parallel is the BBC TV series Red Dwarf. It was originally was made on a shoestring budget where you could see the 100W light bulb in the back of the model ship in shots. later, after the show had been well received and the budget had gone up considerably, they went back and "remastered" the first three seasons. They cleaned up the footage nicely, but then they also went and CGI'd it, edited some of the dialogue and generally messed about with it.

    the reaction to this version was generally pretty negative and fans weren't happy with the changes made. Now if you go and buy the show on DVD, it's the original version you'll find. The remastered is pretty hard to find. The BBC took in board the criticism and gave the fans (you know, the ones paying) what they wanted, which was the original show they fell in love with.

    david

  9. Re:It's his movie by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's Lucas' right, but he's an ass for not letting us have the restoration without additions as it's something that had to happen whether he was going to crap it up again or not. So you're right, and everyone who wants his head on a pike is right, too.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  10. Re:It's his movie by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Funny

    The problem isn't so much that George is perpetrating a fraud. He is suppressing the originals. Part of his "ownership" is a social contract with the rest of us. It's part of the deal he made when he got to publish the originals and get a monopoly on their copying and distribution.

    George owes us a usable copy of the original. That's a 35mm print BTW.

    Also, his attempt to create derivative works and call them Star Wars are fraud and should be pointed out as such and perhaps even prosecuted as such.

    Quite often whining about "following the rules" when it comes to copyright tends to be entirely one sided and in favor of publishers.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  11. Re:who's over-inflated idea of his own importance? by hedwards · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually, the thing there is that it's only been in the last few hundred years that artists were willing to start taking credit for work they produced. Prior to about the 19th century, it was God or a muse that did the work, the artist just put down on paper or however else the results.

    The consumer is where the works ultimately go, if they're not able to soak into the consumer then there isn't really much art going on. Personally, I find it annoying, but ultimately have to accept that it's not what I make of my work that ultimately matters, it's what the viewer makes of it. Sometimes it's pretty amazing and other times it's pretty depressing.

    As far as Star Wars goes, I've been saying for years that George needs to recognize that at this point the fans own the work, and that he really needs to rerelease the original versions, perhaps rescan and remastered, but from the original materials with the highest fidelity in mind. It's arrogant of him to not recognize that he managed to bottle lightning and to leave it as is.

  12. Re:Prediction by hedwards · · Score: 4, Funny

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BMgegut3UM

    I think this speaks for itself.

  13. Re:who's over-inflated idea of his own importance? by vux984 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But even if you wouldn't go as far as saying that the interpretor sets the meaning, maybe we could all agree that going back and modifying a work that you've made is a shitty thing to do if that work already holds meaning for millions of people. As is pointed out in TFA, this is exactly what Lucas did that started this debate

    The problem isn't that Lucas keeps going back and re-imagining / revising things. The public has no problem with a directors cut, director's recut, special edition directors re-re-cut...ad nauseum. Its lucas' ip and he's free and welcome to remaster it as much and as often as he likes.

    The public however strongly objects to arrogantly being denied what they want.

    Me, i want the the THX edition in HD. That is all. No extra scenes. Just a remaster of the original. There is a big market for that. People would be happy to tolerate Lucas indulging in as many editions and remakes and recuts alternate endings, inserted scenes, cgi replacing actors as he likes, if only he'd satisfy the demand for this ONE thing.

  14. Re:UGH by St.Creed · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Uhm, most films are about fictional characters. Casablanca, Gone with the Wind, Harry Potter, Avatar, to name a few.

    But it IS a defining moment, because hey, this guy is going to deliver our heroes to someplace safe. But he just shot someone. In cold blood. Can we trust this guy to bring our heroes safely to their destination? Who knows. We're excited and tense.

    And now we have this new version. Where he politely follows the Geneva convention and Rules of Engagement of civilized people everywhere. No ambiguity - we can trust him. We wait for the inevitable discovery of his golden heart. Meh.

    There is a huge difference there that changes the whole movie up to where he overcomes his greed. It's open heart surgery on a living movie. And I hate it.

    --
    Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
  15. Re:Update Manager by Artifakt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You could compare using a CGI Yoda in some portions that were originally puppet Yoda to your example, but what about such decisions as not having Han shoot first? That's different, in that there was no change in technology at all, 'just' a change in the character. What new technology allowed Lucas to capture Greedo shooting first when it somehow couldn't be done that way originally? If you're going to compare this to a program, what about rewriting, say, an Ultima game so that which decisions lead to which endings is different?

    --
    Who is John Cabal?