One Third of UK Kids Under 10 Own a Mobile Phone

hypnosec writes "Nearly everyone is aware of the influence of technology, specifically that of the new-generation telephonic devices on our society. But, when one in every 3 under-ten kids start having their own mobile phones, only then we come to realize how deep rooted the influence really is — yes, that's what a new report claims. According to the latest findings by the cloud security outfit Westcoastcloud, near about 33 percent of all UK's under-ten kids are currently in possession of a mobile phone."

Comments

Somebody tell the schools

[Eunuchswear]

If only my kids idiot school would stop confiscating the damn things they might be useful.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[bemymonkey]

If only you'd talk to someone in charge at the school about this policy... possibly with some of the other parents in the same situation...?

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Anonymous Coward]

Useful for what? Why does a child need their own telephone?

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Eunuchswear]

So we can nag them at any time of day.

There is no escape!

Bwahahahahahha.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Eunuchswear]

No got much experience with l'Education Nationale eh.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[stephanruby]

Pay the premium. Get your kid a Disney phone. Disable all its functions, but the one that calls you (and other emergency numbers), or the one that allows you to track him down through gps. Then, it's very unlikely that your kid will be playing games in class, or texting in class, for him to get it confiscated in the first place.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Anonymous Coward]

In my school days yo-yos were banned, then magnifying glasses ( after one too many summer Sun-focusing experiments ) and finally Game Boys. Fair enough.

School is a place for education, not entertainment. Can't the kids wait until they are home to text their friends, whom they last saw one hour previously anyhow?

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[piripiri]

What? They have ditched physics, optics and electronics? What a shame.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Anonymous Coward]

I suppose that is one of those idiot schools that wants the attention of its pupils and would rather lessons are not interrupted by the continual "text update" or "facebook status change" ring tone...

My wife's schools takes phones off students and keeps them in the secretary's office - she fetches the children should a parent ring up with something that's important.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[martin-boundary]

So we can charge them for trinkets directly on their phone bills, since they don't have their own credit cards.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Anonymous Coward]

I think he was implying having the phone was enough to get it confiscated presuming a person of authority saw it like a teacher or other adult looking after things.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Hazel Bergeron]

Many years ago I was one of the few carrying a PDA to every class - a Psion Series 3a.

I had it confiscated once: for using the internal speaker to stand to the British national anthem when my Scottish Latin teacher went on another of his hilarious anti-English tirades. He deserved it. I deserved it.

But as long as I only used it for schoolwork while in the classroom, everyone was happy.

Do kids at your school only use their 'phones for schoolwork while in the classroom?

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[jonbryce]

So they can call for help if they have problems getting home. Very useful in more rural areas. My local primary school is about 200 meters away, so perhaps not so useful in a large town.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[MacTO]

Those policies exist for a number of reasons, and cover a variety of electronic devices:

1) Schools don't want to be held accountable for lost, stolen, or broken devices. And yes, parents blame the school when that happens.

2) Teachers don't want to deal with distracted children. Incidentally, this was true 50 years ago when kids weren't allowed to bring toys into class.

3) These contraptions are a source of bullying in a multitude of ways, ranging from theft to provoking and photographing/recording fights.

Just because you don't understand why policies exist doesn't mean that the school is an "idiot",

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Anonymous Coward]

If you disable everything else you hamper the kid twice. First you've given the kid a annoying dog collar to tote around instead of a phone, plus the kid can't interact with other phone kids so is lopped out of a potential social scene.

Needs to have adjustable access timeslots; so it works for a list of friends' numbers outside of class times, and ditto gameplay. Purchasing should be limited to a 'wallet' account separate from the talk charges, so the kid can have a modest allowance to work with.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Anonymous Coward]

Or even better: don't give them a phone and let them communicate like normal children do. I can't remember ever having a need for a mobile phone before I was twelve, up until then I could either talk to people in person or use a landline phone. Mobile phones only become convenient when children get more independent - and given today's cotton-wool society that often doesn't happen until they're in their teens and fairly well able to fend for themselves anyway.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Joce640k]

Yep. The child doesn't need it. The parent does - so they can hover over them 24/7...

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Anonymous Coward]

Not useful in a large town where there's a 200 meter walk and adults in the area, but useful in a rural area where 9 and 10 year olds can be abandoned to walk home by themselves over long distances with few passing adults to assist should they get into trouble? So what you're saying is that mobile phones are being substituted for parental responsibilty?

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Ihmhi]

I took a lot of tests in elementary and high school. Some of the big stand-outs were the SATs and the GEPA in my (young) memory - I took them in 7th and 8th grade respectively. Here's how they (and damn near every prior and subsequent test) went for me:

1) 40 minutes to complete section.

2) Complete section in 20 minutes.

3) Spend 3-4 minutes double-checking my work, even though I never made a change.

4) Sit on my ass for 15-20 additional minutes doing nothing.

5) Repeat for every test section until the test is over. Then repeat for the reading assignment, classowork, etc.

Every classroom assignment, test, quiz, etc. would inevitably involve me sitting idle half the time and trying not to fall asleep. The best part was the grating voice of some of my teachers telling me to "recheck my work" after I already have once or twice. 3 or 4 hours of this shit every day can drive you nuts.

Sure, school is for education, but it's for education to the lowest common denominator. You can't cut special education or remedial courses, but gifted & talented courses and/or extracurricular activities are always on the chopping block. You have students who are "above the bar" in one or more subjects being bored out of their goddamn minds because they have the unfortunate luck of being better than the government standards require them to be.

A dumbass kid leaves his phone ringer on 11 during a test? Sure, suspend his phone privaledges. Playing Gameboy with the sound all the way up? Okay. Reading a book at an inappropriate time? Kosher, take it for a little while. But blanket bans with stuff like this just ends up having the kids who know what the hell they're doing sit on their ass half the time.

This very stuff is what makes me resent jobs that have any kind of bullshit "busy work" in them - work for the sake of work to fill up time. I'm given 8 hours to complete a task, finish in 4, and I have to sit on my ass for another 4 hours to meet a state/federal standard (in the case of school) or punch a time clock (in the case of adult life). The system encourages everybody to slow down and hurts the people who have the capability to excel.

No wonder our country's productivity is in the shitter.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Ihmhi]

That's how it should be - confiscated when it's used inappropriately and/or being disruptive to either you or your classmates' learning experience.

As for the Scottish teacher, well, you guys do have that whole past few centuries of dicking over other countries. I can sorta understand how he might still be a bit mad about that. That's inter-generational anger right there.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[icebraining]

School is a place for education, not entertainment.

No. "Entertainment" is an important part of socialization, which is an important part of school.

Now, they don't really need a cellphone for entertainment. But let's not go overboard here.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[jareth-0205]

Useful for what? Why does a child need their own telephone?

Why do you need your own telephone? (hint: you don't)

It's useful for communication. You know, that thing everyone does.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Anonymous Coward]

So that he can call his friends? So that I can call him during the day? So that he can call me if need be?

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[SpooForBrains]

My children's school has a hand-it-in-at-reception-on-arrival policy. They hand it in when they arrive, they retrieve it when they leave. This seems entirely reasonable to me, since many of the year 6 pupils walk to and from school by themselves, and thus might legitimately need to carry a phone.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Anonymous Coward]

My children's school has a hand-it-in-at-reception-on-arrival policy. They hand it in when they arrive, they retrieve it when they leave..

So does the school my wife works in. Except the children ignores the policy and smuggles the phone into class.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[TheRaven64]

In rural areas, at least where I grew up in the UK, it was quite common for children to get a school bus to and from a school in the city, or to car-share and get a lift with another parent. Sometimes, there are problems with this. For example, my school bus left over half an hour after the end of school, from about 10 minutes walk away from the school. If I missed it, but didn't realise, I wouldn't get back to the school until about an hour after school finished, at which point there may not be any teachers around. There was a phone box on school, so I had a phone card that I could use to call home in the case of any problems.

The first time I used the school bus, I managed to get on the wrong one. I noticed when it got on the motorway, which definitely wasn't on my way home. I got off at the services, found a payphone and called home, but if I'd had a mobile then I'd have been able to call home from the bus and check where the best place to get off was.

And, on a more prosaic level, having a mobile phone later (I got mine when I was 16, which was when cheap pre-pay ones started to appear), it was useful to be able to call my parents if some after-school activity was cancelled, or something else happened that required me to leave school at a different time, such as when one of my close friends was killed in a car accident, or when I was coopted to the debate team at the last minute before a competition.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[TheRaven64]

School is a place for education, not entertainment

If you think that these are totally disjoint, then I hope you don't work in education. And I'm very glad I'm not you - you must lead a very depressing life.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Hazel Bergeron]

Yeah, much of what he said was entirely warranted. His speech on English false modesty stuck with me more than anything. But I cursed myself for not having had the prescience to set up a timed launch of The Skye Boat Song.

He's a monk now... sometimes I wish I were too.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Gordonjcp]

As a matter of interest, what was his name? I think Imight know him...

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Anonymous Coward]

There are no more landlines. You either have a mobile phone, or you don't have any phone.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Anonymous Coward]

Like "normal children"? LOL

In the US, if you're 8+ and don't have a phone, you -aren't- normal.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Hentes]

A lot of schools ban them by default even if it's not used in class.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[mlush]

So they can call for help if they have problems getting home. Very useful in more rural areas. My local primary school is about 200 meters away, so perhaps not so useful in a large town.

This. Our boy has had one since he was 10 but didn't use it much till he went to secondary school.

Has locked himself out twice (second time he phoned to ask where the spare key was hidden:-). He hasn't missed the school bus yet but its only a matter of time, Coming back from school trips to say when he's actually getting back as a pose to when he's scheduled to get back. If we get separated (deliberately on not) in town its useful to reorganize a meet-up point.

This is not helicopter parenting, its just maintaining a basic level of communication. Its the simple things like being able to call ahead and say were going to be late that make it worth every penny.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Anonymous Coward]

If only my kids idiot school would stop confiscating the damn things they might be useful.

Since most parents today grew up without cell phones in school, I'm struggling to understand how a parent today cannot seem to see the value in the standard school policy of cell phone confiscation when they find a student using them when they should not be.

You either want your children to grow up hopelessly dependent on a cell phone and all its narcissistic distractions, or you want to use it as your own personal tracking device and electronic leash for your kid. Either way, it questions your ability to actually parent.

Do yourself a favor and try not to make people question who is the bigger "idiot" here.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[muindaur]

My high school had a payphone, and so did my grammar school. Those are now gone. So if I had a kid they would need one to call in for a ride home should they walk across to the library to do research after school. I had a payphone that I could always use, but those days are gone in most areas: if not all. I used the payphone numerous times from:

1) Missing the bus (running to the locker, and then to the bus as it decides to leave in less than the ten less it's supposed to wait.)
2) Walking over to the town library after school to research.
3) Using the computer lab (we didn't have a computer until after my freshman year of high school.)

All of which required me calling my mom to let her know to pick me up after work.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Hazel Bergeron]

Brucey, except to his face.

But you're not in the only Blue Book I can still find, so either we're not contemporaneous or there's more than one monastic Scottish Latin teacher angry at the English :-).

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Hentes]

1. 1. Those parents will always find something to complain about.
2. 2. This is a matter of discipline. Yes, it's easy for incompetent teachers to blame the phones for the lack of order, but it doesn't make it true.
3. 3. Bullying and fights existed before phones, again this is a disciplinary issue. Recording bullying is a good thing those assholes effectively incriminate themselves, now they can't deny it and get kicked out of school fast. You already mentioned theft, yes it's hard to prevent and requires additional effort from the school, but if a kid uses an old worthless phone noone will steal it.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[jonbryce]

If the school is more than 3 miles away (2 miles for under 8s), or if there is no safe walking route (eg rural roads with no pavement [en-US: sidewalk]), then they would get a school bus, or if it is an extremely rural area, a shared taxi.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Anonymous Coward]

..I think you nailed it with photographing fights - or photographing in general.

I'm in Finland - and was in elementary school after the economical crash following the collapse of soviet union. And boy, if there had been cellphone cameras with us then the school simply could not have had the guts to offer so crappy lunches.

and the other guy, hand in at reception? what the fuck, since when do schools have those?

if the class is so big the teacher doesn't notice a kid using a cellphone then the class really is so big or the teacher is not paying attention. sure, if we had cellphones on 4th grade then the teacher might have gone over the edge faster southpark style, but really that would have been better for all of us anyways.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[SuricouRaven]

I'm employed at one of those schools that confiscates mobile phones on sight. We have to, because those things are incredibly distracting. Which do you think students would rather pay attention to: The teacher lecturing them about the history of world war one, or Angry Birds on the phone under the table? Then you get the gossiping, the potential bullying, etc. That's why we ban phones. But it's not an unreasonable ban: The students are still permitted to bring phones for the journey to and from school, so long as the phones stay turned off and out of sight in pocket or bag once they are on school property.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[SuricouRaven]

When I was at school the bans were pogs, conkers, yoyos, card games (First individually - pokemon, digimon, yugioh - and then just a blanket ban to have keeping track of them) and chess. The latter due to a series of games turning violent in accusations of cheating.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Sqr(twg)]

Parental responsibility means teaching your kids to take care of themselves, and also to make sure they get healthy habits, such as walking instead of driving when they need to travel short distances. In the last few decades, there has been a trend in a few western countries of driving kids everywhere and forbidding them to play outside unsupervised. In those same countries, child and young adult obesity rates have exploded. Coincidence?

Letting 9-year-old kids walk home from school on their own was the safe and responsible thing to do long before cellphones where invented. Those are just tools that have made it even safer.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[zmooc]

This may be new to you, but some children actually happen to have a social life. Much of which nowadays inevitably happens online. No facebook/twitter/whatever will mean missing out for an ever increasing number of children.

Also, children need to travel from home to school and back again, often by foot or by bike. How are they going to find the 10 minute timeslot in which they can get there without raining wet when they don't have a phone?! How are they going to call mom to discuss whether they can go play with a friend? How are they going to send in their homework? On paper? LOL. And how are they going to post on slashdot without a phone? Wait until they get home? Sounds kind of 1996ish to me.

That's why children need telephones as well. Simply being young does not mean their needs are that much different from us or they have no right to fulfill those needs with the same technology us adults use for it.

And, no, I'm not talking out of my ass. I'm a dad myself and am not going to accept my children missing out just due to some irrational opinions or incompetent schools.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Anonymous Coward]

I hear you on the being bored in school. It sounds like you were unlucky with the teachers you had. I had a similar experience to begin with but my teachers were good enough to realise I was more than capable of doing the work they assigned in half the time. Some got me to help out the other kids in the class which I was happy to do. Some allowed me to just sit there and read whatever I wanted after I had finished the work. One of my Physics teachers used to set additional assignments for me to do to fill the time and these were always more interesting than what everyone else was doing.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[SpooForBrains]

and that's where confiscation (and, for persistent offenders, detention) comes into play :)

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[digitig]

If the school is more than 3 miles away (2 miles for under 8s), or if there is no safe walking route (eg rural roads with no pavement [en-US: sidewalk]), then they would get a school bus, or if it is an extremely rural area, a shared taxi.

Good luck with that -- we spent an age fighting our local authority over that (more than 3 miles to the school -- this was in an urban area, but my son has special educational needs and our nearby schools didn't have the facilities that the local authority agreed he needed). We never did get the transport.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[SpooForBrains]

If you give a child a phone that is only useful for calling Mummy and Daddy, then they won't bother to keep it on them, they won't care where it is, they won't bother charging it and they'll lose it/break it in very short order, because it's just not an object they will care about protecting.

The way to make sure a child keeps their phone charged and about their person is to let them USE it.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Eunuchswear]

When I was at school the bans were pogs, conkers, yoyos, card games (First individually - pokemon, digimon, yugioh - and then just a blanket ban to have keeping track of them) and chess. The latter due to a series of games turning violent in accusations of cheating.

They banned conkers? We'd have burned the school to the ground if they banned conkers.

Our school banned holding mass riots with the kids of other nearby schools. Didn't stop us though.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[todrules]

Yeah, but then for some reason, the schools love to give out detention, which doesn't let out until after all the buses have left. And, in this day and age, where both parents usually have to work, then the kid is usually left to find their own ride home.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[tangelogee]

I see the whole getting home part, but this doesn't tell me why the kid needs a phone in school. They are more of a distraction than a tool.

I can sympathize with the whole getting home thing. It would have definitely been useful for me, seeing as I lived 30 miles from my school. But they should get one of those phones with 2-3 buttons...call home, call 911 (or the local alternative), and call one other designated person. There is no need for a 10 year old to have a full-blown cell phone.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Eunuchswear]

Those policies exist for a number of reasons, and cover a variety of electronic devices:

1) Schools don't want to be held accountable for lost, stolen, or broken devices. And yes, parents blame the school when that happens.

A teacher confiscated my daughters mobile once.

At the end of the school day she went to see the teacher to get it back. Suprise suprise - it had been stolen from the teachers bag.

When I reported the theft to the police they asked me whether I thought the teacher had stolen it. I had to tell them I'd rather not go there - would have led to endless shit. The police were of the same opinion.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[tangelogee]

Every classroom has a phone here where I work. Every store has one as well. Most will let a child call home if necessary. How many 10 year-olds do you know that walk around by themselves?

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Eunuchswear]

I'm employed at one of those schools that confiscates mobile phones on sight. We have to, because those things are incredibly distracting.

Do you confiscate them in the playground? While the kid is trying to turn it off?

Never underestimate the petty dictator.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[zmooc]

The reasons are crap. I won't even start to explain why the first one is crap, that should be plain obvious.

The second is crap since it is perfectly doable to require children to put their phones on silent mode or to keep them in their locker during classes. The school should teach them the discipline to do that. They will carry phones for the rest of their lives and will have to deal with it no matter what. Distractions have always been around and teachers have always dealt with them. Stealing things (yes, that's what it is) is not a respectful solution, at most it is an indication of the incompetence of the school and/or its teachers.

The 3rd reason is probably the most crappy one. It is probably just as effective against bullying as ducttaping all students mouths but it fails to deal with the actual problem. It only postpones it until after school. Also it is very effective against sending friendly things to eachother. It just sends out a very, very wrong message.

But the most important reason why it is crap, is that it is none of the schools business what a child carries in its bag or clothes as long as it does not interfere with the lessons. Children have a right of privacy too and school absolutely should not have the right to take away the property of their CLIENTS. It is disrespectful and helps tremendously in teaching students that disrespectful behavior is the norm nowadays. I wouldn't even remotely be able to show any respect to a school that treats me like crap, escpecially if the reasons (the ones you stated) are so incredibly irrational. It is a very nice beginning of an awesome negative spiral of irrational behavior, disrespect and abuse of authority.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[jonbryce]

Well obviously it should be switch off during lessons. A full blown cell phone is probably cheaper than what you are suggesting.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[dcw3]

it was useful to be able to call my parents if some after-school activity was cancelled, or something else happened that required me to leave school at a different time, such as when one of my close friends was killed in a car accident, or when I was coopted to the debate team at the last minute before a competition.

Even my schools back in the 60s and 70s had landlines that could be used by the students. My daughter's schools (she graduated just a couple yrs ago), had phones in the office that could be used. Certainly not as convenient, but I still see no reason a young child should need a cellphone. Most of the kids are just texting each other when they should be paying attention during class.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[GauteL]

"Or even better: don't give them a phone and let them communicate like normal children do"

This was normal when you were a kid. It isn't normal now. If you want your kid to have a shot in the treacherous changing world of real life social networks, he/she probably needs a mobile phone now.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[tangelogee]

Reading a book is fine. But a Gameboy or any other electronic device is a distraction to others around you, even muted, or with headphones. Also, in cases of the SAT or the like, the proctors don't have a choice. Talk to the College Board about it. Besides, If you were as good as you say you were, you should have only had to take that once anyway. And I'm sure you got a 1600 (or whatever the new scoring is) too...

I had a similar experience in school. However, I was allowed to read after I handed my classroom tests in, and after completing classwork. At least in NY state back in the 90's once you were finished with the end of the year Regents (state finals) test, you could hand in your test and walk out. Hell, if you had a car, you could drive home. If not, you waited for your bus, and could do anything you wanted outside of the testing area.

I don't know about you, but my job doesn't really consist of one thing to do all day. If I finish something with four hours, I have another project waiting to be done after that. Even when working in retail, if there was a slow time in my area, I was told to go help somewhere else. I would love to know where I may find this job where I can do all my work in four hours and still get paid for the other four.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[tangelogee]

1. 1. Those parents will always find something to complain about.

So you want to give them more fodder? I would rather they complain about their brat not getting what they want (at least it would happen somewhere, if not in the home) than that their third phone this month was lost/stolen, as they are probably on their way to buy little johnny a new one.

2. This is a matter of discipline. Yes, it's easy for incompetent teachers to blame the phones for the lack of order, but it doesn't make it true.

it's easy for a parent of 1-4 children to say that someone dealing with 30 unruly students is incompetent, now isn't it?

3. Bullying and fights existed before phones, again this is a disciplinary issue. Recording bullying is a good thing those assholes effectively incriminate themselves, now they can't deny it and get kicked out of school fast. You already mentioned theft, yes it's hard to prevent and requires additional effort from the school, but if a kid uses an old worthless phone noone will steal it.

The additional effort on the school is to ban them. The bulk of the additional effort should be on the parents to actually teach their children manners and respect. However, that would be like the blind leading the blind nowadays, wouldn't it?

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[dcw3]

Useful for what? Why does a child need their own telephone?

Why do you need your own telephone? (hint: you don't)

It's useful for communication. You know, that thing everyone does.

Yes, so we can text during class, and send each other answers during the tests. Seriously, there is no reason a young child needs a cellphone at school. Land lines are (still) available in every office for emergencies, changes in plans for after school, etc.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[jareth-0205]

Yes, so we can text during class, and send each other answers during the tests. Seriously, there is no reason a young child needs a cellphone at school. Land lines are (still) available in every office for emergencies, changes in plans for after school, etc.

What about out of school? When they're walking to/from school? When they're with friends, on a weekend? No, they don't *need* it, but that's not the point, nobody in the developed world *needs* a mobile phone, since there are payphones and landlines.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Gonoff]

My son has had a phone since he went to secondary school at 11. He knew, right from the start, that he needed to turn it off during lessons. he saw that people who didn't would get them confiscated.

Why did he have one? At that age, he was old enough to go and play football in the park (a mile away) with his friends. This made it possible for him as we could call him when necessary - meals, homework, bedtime, Doctor Who etc.He could contact his friends and have a social life as well as phone us to say he had a puncture or would like to do something else. We could always say no - but at least he was asking.

To those who suggest putting a GPS tag on your child. That is what we do to criminals. Being a child is not a crime and does not deserve such treatment.
As for the type of phone.I would suggest a basic 'dumbphone' for a couple of years and a cheaper Android from about 13. My son got a Samsung Galaxy at 15. Do not ever give them an iPhone. Younger kids will be bullying/theft targets. It will encourage superficiality in older ones.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[dcw3]

Okay, kids have always had a social life, and that's great. What they don't need is for that life to be interfering with getting an education. What they don't need is another distraction in the classroom. What they don't need is another source of cheating available to them.

I'm not opposed to kids having them at school. I'm opposed to them in class...keep them in your locker, or have them confiscated.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[tangelogee]

Well obviously it should be switch off during lessons. A full blown cell phone is probably cheaper than what you are suggesting.

how about this? $60. Sure not as cheap as the buy one get ones and free phones, but compared to the smartphones I've seen some kids playing with?

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[demonlapin]

nobody in the developed world *needs* a mobile phone, since there are payphones and landlines.

The birth of the mobile phone era has killed payphones. I'm sure they're still there in a few places, but most of them have been removed. Businesses still have land lines, but homes increasingly don't.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[demonlapin]

When I was 10 I had the run of the neighborhood (about a mile in any direction). I didn't even have to tell my parents where I was going, just that I was going out and would be back before dinner.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[genner]

Yes, so we can text during class, and send each other answers during the tests. Seriously, there is no reason a young child needs a cellphone at school. Land lines are (still) available in every office for emergencies, changes in plans for after school, etc.

What about out of school? When they're walking to/from school? When they're with friends, on a weekend? No, they don't *need* it, but that's not the point, nobody in the developed world *needs* a mobile phone, since there are payphones and landlines.

What's a payphone?

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[nedlohs]

I need my telephone because without it I would not be able to have the job I have. And without a job I wouldn't be able to pay for my food and shelter.

Not sure I could live under a bridge and on government handouts or I could get a lower paid job and live somewhere else/eat differently, but the word need in that original context doesn't mean "absolutely required for life" it's just a little broader. Yes, the English language is sloppy.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[geekmux]

This may be new to you, but some children actually happen to have a social life. Much of which nowadays inevitably happens online. No facebook/twitter/whatever will mean missing out for an ever increasing number of children.

Also, children need to travel from home to school and back again, often by foot or by bike. How are they going to find the 10 minute timeslot in which they can get there without raining wet when they don't have a phone?! How are they going to call mom to discuss whether they can go play with a friend? How are they going to send in their homework? On paper? LOL. And how are they going to post on slashdot without a phone? Wait until they get home? Sounds kind of 1996ish to me.

That's why children need telephones as well. Simply being young does not mean their needs are that much different from us or they have no right to fulfill those needs with the same technology us adults use for it.

And, no, I'm not talking out of my ass. I'm a dad myself and am not going to accept my children missing out just due to some irrational opinions or incompetent schools.

This may be new to you, but MOST children actually abuse the living shit out of their "social life" and the electronic gadgets that are used to manipulate that environment, causing everything from personal distraction to all out mass interference and manipulation when somethings goes "viral" in school.

That thing we call "school" has a purpose. And contrary to popular belief, it's primary focus is not centered around "facebook/twitter/whatever", so needless to say, cell phones are not at the top of the priority list.

Much like politics, this policy serves the lesser of two evils. You want cell phones in school, then get the majority of kids to stop abusing the shit out of them(not just social networking either, cheating capability is almost unlimited) and shift the lesser of two evils to the side that you prefer, and policy will likely change.

Since I just read that a school recently equipped the entire Kindergarten class with iPads as a test pilot, I'd say that schools are actively looking at alternate ways of teaching, so it's not a complete head-in-the-sand approach and attitude here.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[acidreverb]

Even my schools back in the 60s and 70s had landlines that could be used by the students. My daughter's schools (she graduated just a couple yrs ago), had phones in the office that could be used.

In the 90's, at my high-school, the office was closed after school hours. If one didn't have money for a payphone, there were no phones a student could use. My only option, on more than one occasion, was to call collect. With payphones quickly disappearing, I'm not even sure if that's an option anymore.

I appreciate you're pragmatism. But your personal situation is not universal.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[jareth-0205]

OK, fair enough. But most people *don't* use their phone for their job. The vast majority of mobile phones are for personal use. I have a mobile phone, but in no definition of the word do I "need" one. I still find it damn useful though, and so do children for much of the same reasons.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Joce640k]

My phone cost me 27 Euros new. It's lasted for over two years and the battery easily goes for a week or more.

(Nokia 1200 if you must know...)

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[AJH16]

What you are talking about isn't a problem with the technology but a problem with personal responsibility that nobody wants to teach their kids anymore. As a perfect example, my elementary, middle and high schools had a very similar philosophy when it came to the school computers and had then locked down a bunch to "prevent distraction." You know what, it had a severe negative effect on my ability to get what I needed to do done, so I, as a responsible student, bypassed the security measures they had put in place to do what I needed. I never once got in trouble for it (I got talked to once when they were concerned about a part of the network I was looking at to see what permissions I had, but never in trouble) because I never abused the power I had gotten for myself and used it for what I needed and only used it to kill time when I didn't have anything else I needed to do.

Obviously what technology is available when is a personal issue that needs to be evaluated based on the individual. I don't think having a cellphone in the classroom is a right or having a smartphone at all is a right, but I do think they can be beneficial devices even for a fairly young child if used properly. I know I got a lot of additional education out of being able to look things up on computers at school and having a constantly available connection to things like Wikipedia and Google to be able to do further research from my desk in the classroom would have been a phenomenal tool that I would have benefited greatly from.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Thumper_SVX]

Useful for what? Why does a child need their own telephone?

Because my ex wife and son's mother is a diagnosed sociopath with a felony record who has a absolute belief that only she can care for our child despite the fact that the state has told her otherwise. I would like my son to be able to call 911 and/or me if he even sees a hint that her car's waiting for him in the parking lot of the school. Again.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to use the payphones all the time for that as well, and since they're gone, I would have no choice but to equip my kids with cell phones, despite my normal tendency to NOT do that.

They don't actually need that many gadgets and gizmos, but the schools are slowly devolving into a place where they do.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Tharsman]

If missing the bus and noticing too late after no one was in school, or getting into the wrong one and arriving to an entirely inknown place are not good enough reason for you, then I hope you are not a parent, or that your town is stuck in the 80s with pay phones in every corner and your kid hangs out with a pocket full of quarters.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[jonbryce]

How about http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/mobiles/mobile-phones/ALCATEL-OT-209/PPAY?src=phoneFinder&tariffNetworks=&clearance=false £4.95 + a £10 top-up voucher.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[SimonTheSoundMan]

A shame they can't do a detention without the parents knowing first, as they have to give them a 24 hour written notice.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/44/section/5

(3), (d)the pupil’s parent must have been given at least 24 hours’ notice in writing that the detention was due to take place.

But as for transportation home,

(4)In determining for the purposes of subsection (3)(c) whether a pupil’s detention is reasonable, the following matters in particular shall be taken into account— ....

(b)any special circumstances relevant to its imposition on the pupil which are known to the person imposing it (or of which he ought reasonably to be aware) including in particular— .....

(iv)where arrangements have to be made for him to travel from the school to his home, whether suitable alternative arrangements can reasonably be made by his parent.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[todrules]

That is a good law, but it's for the UK. The US, at least the school districts I went to, don't have laws like this. The parents aren't informed, and the teachers could care less if you have to walk 10 miles to get home because you missed your bus.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure there is no shortage of unintelligent, insecure parents. There is no reason for any kid to have a phone in school. There are far, far too many examples of phones being used to cheat or simply distract from their only job - school. The school has phones. The school knows where your child is at in school. Contacting your child is as easy as contacting the school except it can be done so in a manner which is not disruptive to an entire class. The fact you feel its more important for your child to have a completely optional and very disruptive technology is more important than your child's, or the next's, education, is very telling.

The real problem is, these devices are not immediately tossed into a shredder after confiscation. Any school which is not immediately shredding these devices is doing a disservice to children, stupid parents, and teachers everywhere.

Oh that's right, this is America. Its more important your child feel cool by having the latest gadget than it is for them to actually get an education. No wonder our education system is continuously going into the shitter. Sadly, as more and more parents have become involved in education, the quality of education has inversely declined. The less parents have any influence on schools, generally, the better the education will become - again.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[tehcyder]

If only my kids idiot school would stop confiscating the damn things they might be useful.

So is it just your kids who should be alloed to break school rules, or is it OK for eveyone?

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[tepples]

But most people *don't* use their phone for their job.

They might use it when seeking a job. Anybody waiting for an interviewer to return a call needs a phone in order to receive that call.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[tehcyder]

And, on a more prosaic level, having a mobile phone later (I got mine when I was 16, which was when cheap pre-pay ones started to appear), it was useful to be able to call my parents if some after-school activity was cancelled, or something else happened that required me to leave school at a different time, such as when one of my close friends was killed in a car accident, or when I was coopted to the debate team at the last minute before a competition.

What, your school seriously wouldn't let you or a teacher ring home to say that one of your close friends had been killed in a car accident? Did you go to some special Dotheboys Hall throwback school?

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[tehcyder]

Yeah, but then for some reason, the schools love to give out detention, which doesn't let out until after all the buses have left. And, in this day and age, where both parents usually have to work, then the kid is usually left to find their own ride home.

And, in the UK, at least, they have to give you advance warning of any detention which you sign to authorise.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[TheRaven64]

What, your school seriously wouldn't let you or a teacher ring home to say that one of your close friends had been killed in a car accident?

They probably would have done, but in a year group of over 100 there would have been a very long queue for the phone. Fortunately, I had a mobile so I didn't need to find out.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[tehcyder]

It's different when you're talking about secondary school age kids, they obviously have a much greater degree of freedom, and do a lot of stuff after school/after dark or whatever.

TFA is talking about under-10s who as a rule aren't expected to be out and about on their own much. I know on slashdot eveyone grew up wild and free like Huckleberry Finn, but in reality you'd get some odd looks and possibly a talking to from the school if you let a six or seven year old walk home from school on their own along busy roads. Ten year olds, not so much of a problem.

An eight or nine year old with a mobile would just be using it to show off to their friends and waste money downloading Justin Bieber ringtones.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[tehcyder]

Useful for what? Why does a child need their own telephone?

Why do you need your own telephone? (hint: you don't)

It's useful for communication. You know, that thing everyone does.

Great argument, in that case every seven year old should have a fucking job, house and car too (hint: they're children, not adults).

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[tehcyder]

Useful for what? Why does a child need their own telephone?

Because my ex wife and son's mother is a diagnosed sociopath with a felony record who has a absolute belief that only she can care for our child despite the fact that the state has told her otherwise. I would like my son to be able to call 911 and/or me if he even sees a hint that her car's waiting for him in the parking lot of the school. Again.

The correct response in that situation would be for your son to find an adult immediately, not waste time ringing you when you are presumably not within a few seconds of being able to help him.

Although I agree I would give him a phone too in those circumstances, they are thankfully somewhat of an outlier.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[linuxwolf69]

My daughter has a phone she takes to school. She's also required to turn it off when she gets there (my requirement). She also turns it on when school lets out for the day.

I agree that some parents are not responsible enough, nor do they hold their children up to an adequate standard of responsibility. My daughter's phone is her "ticket" to be able to hang out with friends and go places without us. She knows if she does not do what she's supposed to, and especially if she turns the phone on during school, she will lose it, and thus lose some of her freedom.
If a parent teaches the child proper respect for self, and others, and responsibility, then there isn't a problem with kids having phones, nor taking them to school. Unfortunately it's the few that ruin things for the many.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[zach_the_lizard]

The high school I graduated from had no payphones and the office was closed after hours. If you got into a situation in which you couldn't get to the office in time, you would have been out of luck without a cell phone.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[zach_the_lizard]

While this makes sense, it wasn't at all in place when I had detention. I was held for the unholy offense of not calling my teacher "ma'am." This was in the early 2000s in Alabama in the public school system.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[tehcyder]

The system encourages everybody to slow down and hurts the people who have the capability to excel.

Bullshit, in any real world job I've ever had there are always more things to do than time in the day, and once you get really good at everything you get promoted or move to a more demanding job.

Being bored at school is good prepaation for working life anyway, it's almost entirely a waste of your time, energy and talents. And the only thing worse than being bored at work is enjoying your work: at that point, you have lost your soul.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[jareth-0205]

Why do you need your own telephone? (hint: you don't)

It's useful for communication. You know, that thing everyone does.

Great argument, in that case every seven year old should have a fucking job, house and car too (hint: they're children, not adults).

And children don't communicate?

Nice straw man you've got there.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[linuxwolf69]

My daughter's school (grades 6 - 8) has a rule that cell phones are not allowed to be used during instructional hours.

I have no problem with this rule, as long as they understand that instructional hours are the hours between first bell indicating first class, and last bell indicating school dismissal at the end of the day. I require her to have her phone off during school but she turns it back on after the last bell rings. This is outside of instructional hours, so there should be no problem.

I haven't seen anything about kindergarten iPads. I personally wouldn't want to do that.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[bemymonkey]

Not every country has schools that amount to prisons... here in Germany even elementary school kids are free to come and go as they please and find their own way to and from school.

Ever wonder why carpooling to and from school is so popular in the States and, well, pretty much nowhere else in the world?

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Osgeld]

ok fine, lets let your 5 year old wander aimlessly around Detroit for a few days, see how that works for you

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[bemymonkey]

So Detroit's a REALLY crappy place to have kids, huh? :p

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Osgeld]

well they are no longer the highest crime rate in the nation ... arguably since its next to death and a shitton of people moved out

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[DavidTC]

I see the whole getting home part, but this doesn't tell me why the kid needs a phone in school.

Because leaving the phone laying on the ground outside tends to get it stolen?

I'm a little baffled here. Obviously grade schoolers shouldn't be using phones in class. Hell, adults shouldn't be using phones in class.

But for some reason, apparently a large group of people here seem to think the options are a) have a phone at school, in which case obviously they're going to be talking on it class, b) have it magically appear as they exit the building.

Why the fuck are people constantly talking about 'having a phone in school'. Do you people honestly not understand how idiotic that is? When people have have cell phones, they have them all the time. That's the fucking point of a cell phone.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[DavidTC]

The second is crap since it is perfectly doable to require children to put their phones on silent mode or to keep them in their locker during classes. The school should teach them the discipline to do that. They will carry phones for the rest of their lives and will have to deal with it no matter what.

Teaching cell phone etiquette is actually useful, educationally. Before anyone thinks oddly about that, I have to point out that school does most socialization education anyway, just ask a kindergarten teacher. The fact we'd do it with cellphone 8 years later is not that different.

But the most important reason why it is crap, is that it is none of the schools business what a child carries in its bag or clothes as long as it does not interfere with the lessons.

No shit. Unless someone's carrying some plutonium or something, or has been actually accused of specific wrongdoing and there's some sort of evidence that could be found on them, they shouldn't be searched, period, and it's no one's business what they are carrying on their person. (I'm not saying it should require a search warrant, but it should be something like 'Another student claims you threatened him and took his wallet. We'll be searching you for his wallet, and any people's wallets you might have while we're at it.' Instead of just 'You're a troublemaker, and I'm suspicious. Turn out your pockets.')

Of course, the real problem there is that schools make carrying all sorts of things illegal. You couldn't have a pager at my old high school, 15 years ago, because of the nonsensical idea that drug dealers had pagers. (Perhaps they did, but that is certainly not how a drug dealer in a school of 500 students would behave. No one's going to go to the payphone and page a drug dealer! They would just, you know, walk around and find him.)

Likewise, schools nowadays seem to think it's acceptable to keep students from having prescription drugs or even over-the-counter drugs. Uh, no. Just no. Students should perhaps be required to carry prescription medication in actual prescription bottles, but that's the limit of any of this nonsense.

Schools have too much power to search students, and on top of that they have way too many things that are not allowed at schools for utterly nonsensical reasons. I would not be adverse to some disruptive (but legal) things being banned, I think a school has the perfect right to say 'No, you can't walk around with a spray can, because someone keeps putting graffiti in the bathroom. If that's for a school project, you'll have to drop that off at the art room. If it not, you'll have to leave it in the office.' (And, of course, some stuff is just illegal, like guns.)

That doesn't mean they have the right to search people preemptively, and it doesn't mean they can just ban anything they want, even stuff sitting inside bags that are not causing any sort of 'disturbance' at all.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[tangelogee]

Last I checked, at least where I went to school, we had these miraculous inventions called lockers for placing things which we didn't immediately need, or were not allowed to have, like, I don't know, cell phones,hats and other electronics. Even in elementary school we had our own spot for our bookbags, which since we didn't leave the room, didn't need to go anywhere.

So if you wish to be pedantic about it, yes, they are in school. But no, they should not be carrying it around all day. And that does not fall under either of your limited views of how prohibited devices can be properly stored, unless you have a 2-year-old's view of the world, where "If I can't see it, it must no longer exist!!!!"

Also, the point of a cell phone is convenience, and last I checked, carrying one is not a right. Oh wait, I'm sorry, I didn't use any profanity to drive my point across...shitfuckdamn!

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Abso3k]

Why pay a premium for a stripped down phone when you can actually educate your kids and parent them (GASP!) to be responsible. Our kids all have Droids, full data, etc. and having them at school isn't a problem. They turn them off when we drop them off, use them during lunch when they are allowed and put them away until after school. They understand if they lose the phones for any reason, that they will be responsible for replacing them with their allowance. It is handy for us to be able to get in touch with each other when needed and they can use them for Facebook, texting, whatever when they are out of school.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Gordonjcp]

Doesn't sound familiar. The guy I'm thinking of was a massive Bob Dylan fan and coffee afficionado, long before it was cool</hipster>

This was up in the north-west, in the late 80s/early 90s. How many massively nationalistic Scottish classics teachers can there be?

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Idbar]

Ironically, I see that kids are now getting a full set of gadgets including smartphones and iPads. I wonder if actually parents are looking into these devices to keep the kids busy and avoid their parental responsibilities.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[thetoadwarrior]

School is for learning not chatting on the phone.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[DavidTC]

Last I checked, at least where I went to school, we had these miraculous inventions called lockers for placing things which we didn't immediately need, or were not allowed to have, like, I don't know, cell phones,hats and other electronics.

Really? In your universe you're allowed to put things you're not allowed to have at school in your locker? So, like, you can bring a gun to school, as long as you leave it in your locker?

You, along with a vast group of other people here, do not seem to understand how 'not allowed to have in school' works. If students cannot have it at school, they are not allowed to possess it on school property. (Or sometimes they are, but only long enough to turn it into the office, like medication. Which doesn't work for cell phones, for the simple fact that the office is usually closed by the time afterschool activities are finished.)

If something is not allowed at school, they can't fucking stick it in their locker. That would come under the banner of them having it at school.

If you want to ban them from possession in class, perhaps you should say that.

Of course, such a rule is obvious and does not even slightly need mentioning, except apparently to the group of crazy people here running around thinking 'not allowed in school' and 'not allowed in class' are the same thing, so are running around causing idiotic arguments by not understanding basic logic.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[DavidTC]

Oh, and I've never heard of any school that disallowed people from having hats.

I have, however, heard of teachers who would not let students wear them.

But never anyone, from top to bottom, who had a problem with anyone at all possessing hats, even in class. Students would have hats just blatantly laying on their desks, no one would say a thing.

You really need to learn what we're actually talking here, if you think 'wearing hats' is a relevant analogy. Because ti is, but not in the way you think. Just like some teachers would not let students wear hats, some, in fact all, teachers do not let students use cell phones during class. (And note by 'using' I mean texting and even reading texts.)

Absolutely no one on this entire discussion thinks this is unreasonable at all.

What is unreasonable, however, is attempt to stop students from having cell phones they aren't using. (You know, from 'having them at school'.) This is akin to stopping students from having a hat in their pocket.

Or, for that matter, stopping students who are not in class from using a cell phone. There's no any logical justification for that...if students are free to talk in the halls, they should be free to use cell phones there.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[stephanruby]

Yes, and rightly so. Many children can't be trusted not to use them during class.

But at least if you do this part well, then at least you may be able to change the policy. Principals and teachers are human beings too. Some of them are even parents. As long as you take their needs into consideration, they'll listen to you.

PS: A couple of more things that may need to be disabled too are the camera and the mp3 player.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[jseale]

This reminds me of a special mobile phone made just for kids. It was called Firefly and it was sold primarily at Target stores during the early 2000s. Parents could program the phones with whatever numbers they wanted their kids to have access to. This was done via a web interface. This interface was locked via password. 911 was pre-programmed into the phones.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[lsatenstein]

In some countries, young children are at risk from predators. Today's society has both parents working so the kid has a key. In many countries, the child's cellphone can only call preprogrammed numbers (home, grandparents, parents work place, police and mabe a doctor or other caregiver ).

Changing times means changing dangers.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[dcw3]

Well, I know it's popular here on Slashdot to believe that "personal responsibility that nobody wants to teach their kids anymore". I guarantee you, the vast majority of parents would disagree. But certainly, your right that there are large numbers of those who don't.

You were obviously not the average student. Classroom texting, cheating via cellphone, and complete distraction are rampant in many. Teachers have enough to deal with without putting up with that crap.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[Anonymous Coward]

I wasn't just claiming they don't teach their kids, I was claiming that our society as a whole is responsibility averse and has a sense of entitlement to be given what they want. This is largely a result of marketing and celebrity culture that celebrates unsustainable excess. I don't doubt many parents would disagree, but it doesn't mean they are necessarily doing it effectivley or even know what it is themselves. It isnt everyone, but it is a cultural norm.

Re:Somebody tell the schools

[trigpoint]

nobody in the developed world *needs* a mobile phone, since there are payphones and landlines.

The birth of the mobile phone era has killed payphones.

When I was growing up in the 1970s I was always encouraged to carry 2p to use a payphone. Nowadays there are fewer payphones, and when I recently used one I was shocked at how expensive they are to use. Outside built up areas many no longer accept coins, and require a credit/debit card, which children don't normally have.

Voice and ASCII SMS corrupting young minds?

[Anonymous Coward]

My 10-year old has an ancient Nokia assigned to him for occasions when he's at friends or relatives and can SMS for a pickup or whatever. We have a drawer full of old phones and it's a good use of them. He's not playing poker on it or surfing for p0rn. This is sensationalist and pointless.

Nothing significant

[evilviper]

There's nothing more significant about owning a "mobile phone" than having a walkie-talkie and a scientifig calculator... Internet access on dumb phones is so crippled that it doesn't matter.

What's going to be interesting is when a large number of kids have SMART phones, ie. full web access, networked applications, etc. Then you very nearly have a full computer in your hands, and information always at your fingertips. But the dumb phones parents are likely to give their children don't have this effect at all... they pretty much just make phone calls, and run trivial and useless toy apps.

Re:Nothing significant

[Anonymous Coward]

I just took a £12/month 24 month contract (200 mins inc and 200 texts) which comes with a free Sony Ericson Xperia. £12/month is firmly in pocket money territory or certainly the realms of "nag enough to get it" territory / Xmas present ... we are there now, assuming the kid wants it.

Re:Nothing significant

[bill_mcgonigle]

.But the dumb phones parents are likely to give their children don't have this effect at all... they pretty much just make phone calls, and run trivial and useless toy apps.

Yeah, my under-10 daughter has a phone on a pay-per-minute PagePlus plan ( a few bucks a month) and she only has it for emergency use. It's a cheap folder with keyboard, so she can text if she needs to (i.e. walking in the woods with poor signal) but she's paying me the full 25 cents per superfluous text, so she doesn't.

I've had 11-year-old babysitters with serious texting addictions and it's both sad and wrong. Rear your children properly, news at 11.

Re:Nothing significant

[jonbryce]

You can get the Orange Rio for about £50 on pay as you go. A feature phone rather than a smart phone, but it does have GPRS internet access.

Re:Nothing significant

[jonbryce]

I think you will find the vast majority of phones given to children are pay as you go, so they worst they can do is use up the credit on the phone. With that, you do have an up-front cost for the phone.

Re:Nothing significant

[blackest_k]

not really
I have my android phone I use my xda universal retired when i got the android phone and 1 or 2 motorola razr's. sat gathering dust.

So I have 3 working phones i could easily give away. In the uk you can get sim cards for free o2 for example you can apply for 4 free sim cards Vodaphone has topups from 5 euro or £ and even without top ups as long as the number is called once every 6 months then you have an almost free cell phone.
  why not give it to a child?

when I was in middle school i would walk to and from school (8 - 12) often diverting via ditches playgrounds ect. I guess my mum would worry some but I always eventually got home. The technology wasn't there when i was a kid but i'm sure she would have liked to know where i was and called me if i was particularly late.

One crucial difference in most of europe is there is no charge for incoming calls and texts so even with no credit , a mobile can be called.

obviously a child has to be taught to be responsibility and there has to be appropriate use of the phone which means you don't use it in class. Facebook updates could be a pain but even before mobile phones kids would pass notes in class. The mobile is hardly different.

On the whole giving a mobile to a child is teaching them responsibility and a little independence, kids should be able to play out with friends and not have an adult looking over their shoulder all the time.

Obviously any kid will want a better phone than they have but that will need to be earned by demonstrating they can be responsible. I really don't see a problem with giving kids basic phones initially and more advanced phones as they get older.

Re:Nothing significant

[xaxa]

A cheap Android phone is as little as £75 upfront. That's presumably firmly within birthday present cost.

Re:Nothing significant

[AvitarX]

What's wrong with texting friends at 11 (or any age)?

My girlfriend and I got her 10 year old a phone so she could have a phone. We didn't have a landline, and she was at the age we thought appropriate to leave at home for a quick shopping trip etc.

The phone was a way for her to call if there was an issue. Additionally, it was a low-end smartphone, so she was empowered with internet access whenever she needed it.

Re:Nothing significant

[compro01]

Nevermind pounds, I've seen a samsung android phone on sale for $70, and that's without a contract.

Re:Nothing significant

[bill_mcgonigle]

What's wrong with texting friends at 11 (or any age)?

You see nothing wrong with a texting addiction?

Re:Nothing significant

[AvitarX]

It's generally something I hear used by people that would say I'm addicted to texting.

If someone actually suffers withdraw when not receiving and sending texts I suppose it's a problem, but generally we as a society consider communicating with peers as a positive thing.

I'll fess up to sending/receiving 2500 or so in a general month and 5200 last month. It's a convenient way to communicate, removing many of the flaws of phone conversation. My minutes usage have gone from 1200 to 200 in the last two years.

New forms of communication bring fear to people (the first generation to grow up with phones was a concern to the adults), it's just communication, in no way superior or inferior to others.

Is she really addicted to texting, or does she constantly communicate with her friends as 11 year old girls have done for decades (if not since the beginning of time)?

Re:Nothing significant

[Anonymous Coward]

Was your daughter walking in the woods when the 11 year old baby sitter was in charge? Fire the babysitter.

Re:Nothing significant

[bill_mcgonigle]

Is she really addicted to texting, or does she constantly communicate with her friends as 11 year old girls have done for decades (if not since the beginning of time)?

Probably both. She neglected her schoolwork and responsibilities and ran up multi-hundred-dollar phone bills for her parents several months in a row, after being told to knock it off. I think her phone got taken away and she had to get a summer job to pay off the phone bill.

Re:Nothing significant

[AvitarX]

I did the same thing as a youngun on a regular phone (long distance bill).

Socializing to the expense of schoolwork is nothing new either. Kids will be kids, god save them, and taking the phone is a reasonable response, but it hardly sounds any different then sneaking out to meet at the park, or using a landline phone.

Saying it's texting that's the problem is silly, kids often have priorities wrong, I mean, someone teasing you can feel like the end of the world.

Translation

[zeptic]

The article states that 33% in the range 0-10 years have a mobile phone. That translates to 100% of 6 2/3 - 10 year olds are having a mobile phone. That seems way to high -- especially when I compare to the real world (here in Denmark)!

Re:Translation

[jonbryce]

There are more phones than people in the UK, and everybody has one, so the figures seem about right.

Re:Translation

[neyla]

Journalists don't know statistics, news at 11.

I strongly suspect that the *actual* result was that 33% of all kids gets their first mobile phone before they turn 10.

Which isn't the same thing as saying that 33% of all kids under 10 have a phone.

But that's journalism to you.

Shoddy journalism and misleading statistics.

[sarabob]

The source says 'children as young as four' have mobiles, meaning that 55% of all 4-9 year olds must have a mobile in order for the "33% of under tens" to be true

One-third of 8-10 year olds I can believe (most people I know are getting their kids phones when they start secondary school at 10-11), but 55% of 4-9 less so.

Re:Shoddy journalism and misleading statistics.

[old man moss]

Yes, we got our 11 year old a mobile when he started at secondary school. But there is a difference between "has a mobile" and "uses a mobile". His phone stays in his bag, turned off, mostly. In fact, he didn't really want a phone, since he sees his friends all the time anyway. So really it is only there for his parents' peace of mind "in case of emergency".

Re:Shoddy journalism and misleading statistics.

[Anonymous Coward]

i'm sorry, i fail to understand how the single mention of a child as young as four can skew the data so much... obviously i'm assuming the data set includes vastly more children more than a handful.

care to enlighten me?

Re:Shoddy journalism and misleading statistics.

[Anonymous Coward]

Most people I know give their kids phones when they are around 7. So there might be some differences between the countries..

Re:Shoddy journalism and misleading statistics.

[ooloogi]

The article says they asked 2000 children, but there's no mention of what bias may have affected the sample of children that they asked. They may have mainly asked older children in that range, which would have skewed the results greatly, compared to evenly sampling across the age range.

The "as young as four" remark demonstrates that there were no 0, 1, 2 or 3 year-olds who owned their own phones, which would account for 800 out of 2000 evenly sampled children. That means among the 1200 4 year olds and up there must be 667 with phones, ie. 56%. Further assuming the proportion increases with age, at 9 years old it would be much higher than that.

Re:Shoddy journalism and misleading statistics.

[rjejr]

I don't know about the shoddy journalism, but yeah that statistic just jumped out at me as stupid. You can't have an age bracket without a bracket. You at least added it but then jumped to an average conclusion which didn't seem any better, lumping 4,5,6,7,8,9 year olds together. I would think 9=85%, 8=75%, 6=65%, 5=55%, 4=15%. Those are just thrown out there numbers, I'm not doing the math. On a personal note, my 5 year old nephew doesn't have a phone, but he has an iPodTouch, which I'm sure he's using the same way others are using their phones. Kids don't have phones b/c they are phones, kids have phones b/c their parents upgrade to new phones and give their kids the old ones to play with. This tidbit of info might have been relevant to the story. So I guess your right after all, shoddy journalism.

Ten is good

[bytesex]

The limit in my family is ten - you get a mobile for your tenth birthday. Of course, then my father-in-law comes along and gives my daughter a 600 Euro phone, which she promptly loses on the street in the week after that, but that stuff just serves to teach my father-in-law about the nature of my kids. I give them phones, but I'm not stupid: I give them cheap and simple phones.

Re:Ten is good

[Hazel Bergeron]

Ten is good (Score:2)
by bytesex (112972)

8 in decimal?

Re:Ten is good

[yacc143]

2 in decimal :-P

Re:Ten is good

[Hazel Bergeron]

I'd expect a bytesexual to use octal. Less's the pity.

Wow

[yacc143]

In other news the sun raises usually somewhere in the east.

What are mobiles useful for kids? Coordinate with their parents. E.g. call parents after school, I'm meeting now friend X. Or I'm stuck there and there, could you please come pick me up [happened when our daughter used first public transport to get to school], please hurry today after school home, we've got a doctor's appointment, Hi kid, we are out doing XY, don't wonder if nobody is home, we'll be home in an hour.

That's probably why even kids from poor families/single parent households have mobiles usually in primary school here around, because these are that need usually the most coordination to manage the day.

Now, for a 10 years old, some mobile will not do, the minimum is a low end Android, with a surprising number of kids carrying high end Androids and iPhones 4, at least at the school of my daughter. (And no it's not private run for rich people, it's just a normal state-run middle school, despite being called Junior Highschool) OTOH, the Galaxy SII is cool enough that I managed to wean my daughter of the evil products of the iFruit salad company.

Considering confiscations, her school has a very pragmatic approach, phones are to be turned off and left in the locker in the morning and are turned on again when leaving the school. That serves quite well the coordination thing => one can call the school if something needs immediate action during the day, all other coordination can be sent via SMS, hence the kid gets the message when it turns on the phone, ... Naturally that does not work everywhere, because it assumes that each kid has his own safe locker.

Re:Wow

[Inda]

Coordinating with parents has caused its own problems with my daughter and her friends. They're at the age where they walk to school on their own but are not old enough to leave the local area on bus.

Every single minor problem results in a phone call to us. They panic when someone cries. A grazed knee seems like a broken leg. Back in my day (GOML), dealing with these issues gave independence.

Credit is king, not Android or Blackberry. It doesn't matter what phone you have if you haven't got minutes. Chores for minutes works well here. I haven't washed-up in years.

Re:Wow

[dcw3]

I haven't washed-up in years.

There's an app for that?!?

The UK != the real world

[Eunuchswear]

It's a very strange place.

Denmark is completely normal.

Re:The UK != the real world

[yacc143]

Actually it's not only the UK, mobiles for 6 years old kids are normal in Austria too.

Re:The UK != the real world

[Eunuchswear]

Yes, but Australia isn't exactly "normal" either.

I mean, seriously, kangaroos?

Re:The UK != the real world

[Malc]

Were you distracted by your mobile phone when they were teaching basic geography?

Re:The UK != the real world

[Eunuchswear]

You mean they don't have Kangaroos in Austria?

Must learn to read.

Now, Austria, that's a totaly normal place. (And all Austrian kids should have mobes, comes in handy when dad locks you in the basement for a few years).

Complete crap

[lucm]

> The extent to which today's youngsters rely on technology was revealed following a study of 2,000 parents of children aged ten and under.

From this study they draw conclusions like the 1/3 nonsense in the headline. Incredibly accurate.

> Broadband providers in the UK may be forced to offer parents ways of protecting their children from harmful online content as part of a new Communications Act.
[...]
> Westcoastcloud has just released its internet security product Netintelligence as an App on iTunes for use in schools and will be releasing a home-use version later this year.

Now this whole thing makes sense. This is not about statistics, this is about marketing.

Re:Complete crap

[jonbryce]

Cellphone providers already block "inappropriate" sites. You either need to pay them to remove the block or VPN back home to get round it.

Re:Complete crap

[foobsr]

This is not about statistics, this is about marketing.

These days, almost everything is about marketing (except for probably very small scale relations/communications).

If you generalize even more, you might argue that everything is about upstream transfer of 'wealth'.

CC.

Re:Complete crap

[yacc143]

Well, the only "provider" that does this here would by McDonalds WLAN, but lucky for them, you can just switch to Google-Mobile view, and they don't catch that at all :)

Microwaves, albumin and brain

[Anonymous Coward]

One could ask if they are they less vulnerable than rats
in acquiring the resulting albumin-induced
brain damage.

Remember UK phones are much cheaper

[Anonymous Coward]

It helps that in the UK you can buy a basic candy bar phone including £10 of credit for £10 and the credit never expires. Calls can be around 10p a minute. Equally when a parent gets a new phone what are they going to do with their worthless old one? You stick in a cheap payg simcard and give it to your kids. Every house in europe has a drawer with some ancient cast off nokias in the back.

So potentially you could have a phone that lasts for years at a cost of a tenner which is well worth it for most families just to occasionally ask where are you? Or be told "I've missed the last bus help".

Re:Remember UK phones are much cheaper

[yacc143]

Exactly, although many primary school kids nowadays want more than a simple phone that stops at SMS-ing. Technically speaking you can get new cheap Androids in the €100 range, and prepaid (PAYG) SIMs can be quite cheap (1000 minutes, 1000 SMS, 1GB in the range of €10 chargeup monthly), OTOH, contracts from discount providers can be quite okay too, our daughter switched to a contract while in primary school :)

Not feasible for teachers to check each phone

[fantomas]

(disclaimer: not a UK teacher, but a UK university educational researcher who has worked on projects in schools)

You make a fair summary about the kind of things that teachers don't want children using their phones for in class. They are in class to participate in the lesson, not for texting friends or playing games. But it's not feasible for teachers to track each student's phone type and functionality, much too time consuming. I don't know where you are writing from but in the UK the school time table doesn't have spare five minutes at the beginning of every lesson (children, particularly those over 11, rotate between teachers for different lessons) to check all the students' phones. Far easier (and more efficient in terms of time spent on teaching) to put a blanket ban on phones being switched on or carried. Harder as well to police older children who have more independence from their parents than younger children. 17 year olds are unlikely to accept "Disney phones" yet are school children.

Of course there is an interesting pedagogical line of thought developing that we should accept mobile phones are becoming ever present devices and we should work out how to incorporate them into teaching and learning processes, but this is a different debate (and fiercely contested, as you can imagine).

Re:Not feasible for teachers to check each phone

[thegarbz]

But it's not feasible for teachers to track each student's phone type and functionality, much too time consuming.

You misunderstood the point of the parent. If the phone is supplied for duress and is set up in a way that ONLY the duress call can be made the kid won't be texting in class as they can't. The phone will likely stay in the bag, if not for anything but shame, and thus would be unlikely to get confiscated in class.

Re:Not feasible for teachers to check each phone

[Joce640k]

If the phone is supplied for duress and is set up in a way that ONLY the duress call can be made the kid won't be texting in class as they can't. The phone will likely stay in the bag, if not for anything but shame

Much easier: Get an old, black-and-white-text-only phone. That will definitely stay hidden in the bag except for emergencies. Won't run out of battery, either.

Re:Not feasible for teachers to check each phone

[stephanruby]

You mean, a no-texting phone. Because shame doesn't work equally on all kids and I've seen kids text super well on even dumb phones (that's why I'd even go as far as disabling texting altogether, or just enable texting for the parents only -- assuming the control is there to do that).

In Japan

[Kagetsuki]

We have cell phones specifically for children.
http://www.au.kddi.com/seihin/ichiran/kishu/mamorino/index.html

If you pull the tab an alarm goes off. The Phone has 24/7 tracking, and it's one touch to call parents. Service isn't expensive either, certainly reasonable for worried parents. Above that are a whole selection of cell phones with features specifically tailored to children of specific age ranges and services are tailored to them so parents can do things like block features or put limits on things - but inter family communication is always free and always-on remote location tracking is on every model.

I guess they don't have the same phones and services in the UK?

Re:In Japan

[Anonymous Coward]

UK phones allow pay as you go. Any phone will do, just pop in the SIM. If the kid can control themselves with calls and SMS etc, the costs are minimal. No monthly fees, no fancy smartphone, just a hand down from the parents. I.e. it's just about as free as you can get. And yes, there are kiddified phones, but UK people are more frugal.

Re:In Japan

[crossmr]

Same in Korea. Every kid in grade 1 and up have a phone around their neck. Mostly for tracking.

Re:In Japan

[Anonymous Coward]

Also in Finland, kids typically get a mobile phone when they go to school (at age 7). At least in our neighbourhood practically every first-grader has a mobile phone. But not many kids under that age.

Much British imperialism...

[Anonymous Coward]

...occurred after Scotland became part of the United Kingdom. So they're not blameless on the imperialistic front. And while it's funny, it probably isn't appropriate for a teacher to rant about the other British nations in a classroom ;)

Re:Much British imperialism...

[Ihmhi]

Yeah, those Scottish conscripts were a real bunch of assholes! The nerve of them, fighting for an empire that would kill them and/or their families if they didn't fight for the crown.

So what?

[SlothDead]

If I remember correctly, more than one in three kids used to have a Game Boy at my school. What's the difference?

Re:So what?

[sgt scrub]

Kids with phones interact with others. Kids with game boys did not?

Only locked down...

[slydder]

Our son (8) has a handy that is completely locked down. He cannot make a call unless it is to us or 911 and cannot receive a call unless from us. Our daughter will have the same type of service when she gets older as well.

Once our son is 12 or 13 I will loosen up the plan a bit, but until then he stays on a tether.

Declining standards

[Anonymous Coward]

When mobile phones first came out, it took people only a few months to learn how to shout "I'm on the train!!!!!" in a smug self-satisifed, oooh look at me, me with a poncy mobile manner.

Now it looks like people have to be trained from as early as 4 how to do this. The world is going to hell in a handcart I tell you.

Cellphones Usage

[Anonymous Coward]

Around 75% of the teens between the age group of 12-17 years use mobile phones. It is very critical to decide whether the children should get the permission to use cell phones. Outsourced Product Development

This is bad why?

[Tharsman]

This is bad why?

Its a way for you to keep direct contact with your kid wherever he may be. It's extremely easy to monitor its usage and to add most phones provide gps tracking to always know we're they may be.

I keep seeing people shocked about this trend and I just don't get it. Don't THEY feel paranoid if their kids happen to be in an unreachable situation?

Re: feel paranoid? Why should they?

[ruhri]

I keep seeing people shocked about this trend and I just don't get it. Don't THEY feel paranoid if their kids happen to be in an unreachable situation?

If people feel paranoid about this, something's wrong. Good parenting should enable your kids to handle "unreachable situations" (whatever that is). You should have trust in your kids' ability to grow into an independent person. Granted, a cell phone is a convenient thing to have and I accept that argument, but if you need it to ease your paranoia, then the issue is more with you rather than the kid.

Between lesson and dismissal

[tepples]

What do you recommend that students do while sitting quietly once the lesson is finished and before being dismissed?

Re:Between lesson and dismissal

[SuricouRaven]

Sit quietly. The more orderly the end of the lesson, the shorter it need be - and that means more time for learning.

Re:Between lesson and dismissal

[tepples]

What do you recommend that students do while sitting quietly

Sit quietly.

Then what do you recommend that students do while sitting quietly and sitting quietly? What is the educational value of sitting still like a statue and being bored out of one's wits?

Re:Between lesson and dismissal

[SuricouRaven]

As opposed to the educational value of getting out their phones? Do you actually imagine they are doing to use them for education? No, it'll be listening to the pop star of the moment.

Re:Between lesson and dismissal

[tepples]

Then what educational value would you suggest to fill the empty last 20 minutes of a class period? At least playing Tetris at the end of math class builds up the geometry circuits in one's brain.

Re:Between lesson and dismissal

[SuricouRaven]

Twenty minutes? That's no way to run a class. The get-everyone-out time shouldn't be more than a few minutes, and that's if the class is being unruly.

More Chinese kids own cell phones

[Anonymous Coward]

Chinese kids own more phones than the population of all Chinese kids. Maybe some kids in the very rural areas don't own cell phones, but many urban Chinese kids own more than two cell phones because they kept getting the latest coolest phones.

Actually...

[Anonymous Coward]

... this just means 1 out of 3 kids in the UK is a drug dealer.

So!?!

[sgt scrub]

1/3rd of all Americans with a 10 year old own a mobile home! Big ol "were a AAA country. naner naner naner" lookin... :P

It Gets Even Worse

[Anonymous Coward]

I know of some kids who are only 11 or 12 who have iPhones and HTC Desires. It seems really bizarre that you would give a kid such an expensive toy.

I wonder how accurate the statistics are...

[Polo]

According to my daughter, everyone has a cellphone in her class, except her.

(it also seems her classmates are particularly well equipped when it comes to pets, electric scooters and late bedtimes) :)