Amazon To Launch Kindle Tablet?

Rumors abound that Amazon wants a taste of the tablet market and will unveil a Kindle Tablet later this week. The prevailing thought is Amazon will offer a device that will cost under $300 and will tether closely to its music, movie and digital book content. From the article: "Amazon has brand recognition, a bevy of existing loyal Kindle e-reader owners, and a Web-based e-commerce platform that includes one-click access to buying e-books, movies, digital music downloads, its own Android app store, and streaming media catalog. That adds up to Amazon being uniquely suited to go head-to-head with Apple in the tablet market and become a formidable competitor across the industry."

Comments

Possible and likely.

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

However, I'm guessing it's probably going to be locked down and running Android in it's barest form. Sort of like a locked down Grid10 tablet.

If Amazon sees this as a way to sell digital media, then I think they're looking at a hard sell. Apple's digital media offerings seem to try to buttress their digital media devices, not the other way around.

I wish amazon the best in this though.

Re:Possible and likely.

[hedwards]

Amazon's competition here is B&N or rather Amazon is introducing a product to compete with B&N's offering. Apple is in a completely different area.

Most likely, Kindle color will be similar to Nook color, which probably means that any locking they do will be easily removed.

Re:Possible and likely.

[Anonymous Coward]

If its running any form of android its going to give those in the rom communities all the existing software they need to get a fuller version of android up and running on it.

Re:Possible and likely.

[SilverHatHacker]

I heard they had a custom fork of Android that replaced all the Google services with their own. Their own app store, music service, etc.

Re:Possible and likely.

[jonbryce]

They have their own Android app store, and I would imagine they will want to sell apps from that to Kindle users.

Re:Possible and likely.

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

We'll have to see what Amazon does; but B&N has been about as far from "locking" as one is likely to find among android devices. By default, they'll try to boot from the (external) microSD slot first, then the internal flash if they don't find anything bootable. Aside from the usual peculiarities of embedded ARM boards, it's almost like dealing with a real computer!

Re:Possible and likely.

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Amazon's competition here is B&N or rather Amazon is introducing a product to compete with B&N's offering. Apple is in a completely different area.

Amazon and iTunes are competing on Music and Video downloads. If they're tossing the E-Ink display, they most certainly are competing with Apple.

Re:Possible and likely.

[IANAAC]

I heard they had a custom fork of Android that replaced all the Google services with their own. Their own app store, music service, etc.

As someone who owns a (really) low-end android tablet without the stock market app, I say good for them.

I've installed Amazon's appstore and music service, as well as their regular Kindle app. They all run quite nicely on low-end tablets.

Re:Possible and likely.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's funny, with all the "we'll wait and see" and "rumors of an Amazon tablet are spreading".

TechCrunch already reviewed the thing. They had it in their hands. You just can't buy it yet.

Re:Possible and likely.

[Anonymous Coward]

Amazon shouldn't create a lock-down version of Android tablet. They need to have strong collaboration with Google to ensure that the future android OS will be compatible with whatever tablet they release. It's fine if they include all their services on the tablet by default but it would be a bad idea to create a lock-down version of Android. In terms of music, video, books & e-commerce, I think amazon has good portfolio to compete head to head against the Apple Appstore. You combine that with Android app-store, I think you would definitely have a real good competitor for iPad

Re:Possible and likely.

[AvitarX]

Not if it runs 3.x

We'll have to wait for at least ice cream sandwich then.

Re:Possible and likely.

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

In the specific context of bootloader behavior, we will have to wait and see: Techcrunch did a UI/market positioning/likely strategy review of the thing; but they commented not at all about the behavior of the bootloader, presence absence of cryptographic checks, etc, etc...

Re:Possible and likely.

[technomom]

Three words: Nook Color killer. Then, if they're smart, they'll turn a blind eye to the root'n'ROMmers, B&N did, only this is hopefully more capable hardware. Then to put the icing on the B&N cake, they'll come out with an e-ink touchscreen Kindle and reduce the Kindle 3 down to $99 or $79 with ads. Win.

Re:Possible and likely.

[Lunix Nutcase]

Amazon shouldn't create a lock-down version of Android tablet.

Because you say so?

They need to have strong collaboration with Google to ensure that the future android OS will be compatible with whatever tablet they release.

You do realize that Amazon is trying to compete against Google with this right? That's why they have their own app store and many of their own replacement apps for the standard Android apps.

It's fine if they include all their services on the tablet by default but it would be a bad idea to create a lock-down version of Android.

Do you have any actual reasons other than because you don't want them to do so?

You combine that with Android app-store, I think you would definitely have a real good competitor for iPad

They have their own Android app store which is the whole point of them having their own forked version of Android. They want people buying their apps through them so they get the cut rather than Google.

Re:Possible and likely.

[Anonymous Coward]

Amazon forked Android 2.1 or so and then customized it. It's "android" in the same way the android is "linux" or iOS is "BSD". Amazon isn't selling an android tablet, they're selling a color kindle.

Re:Possible and likely.

[Anonymous Coward]

Amazon shouldn't create a lock-down version of Android tablet.

Because you say so?

I say that because as a consumer that is what would be attractive to me. Being able to have access to full potential of the tablet, instead of some lock-down version that only serves the amazon.com on tablet.

They need to have strong collaboration with Google to ensure that the future android OS will be compatible with whatever tablet they release.

You do realize that Amazon is trying to compete against Google with this right? That's why they have their own app store and many of their own replacement apps for the standard Android apps.

Yes, I do realize that and I think that is a bad approach. That is the reason why I believe instead of competing with Google they should collaborate.

It's fine if they include all their services on the tablet by default but it would be a bad idea to create a lock-down version of Android.

Do you have any actual reasons other than because you don't want them to do so?

The reason would be that as soon as new Android version comes out it would be an inferior product as oppose to if they had collaborated with Google.

You combine that with Android app-store, I think you would definitely have a real good competitor for iPad

They have their own Android app store which is the whole point of them having their own forked version of Android. They want people buying their apps through them so they get the cut rather than Google.

I believe that consumers and Amazon would benefit much more with strong collaboration. This is the kind of thinking from vendor is what is driving Android fragmentation and creating problems that Linux has faced on Desktop for past decade.

Re:Possible and likely.

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

I don't know. If they're looking to use this thing to sell digital services rather than having their digital services being used to sell their hardware, it's likely they may lock everything down to appease the mighty overlords of content.

Re:Possible and likely.

[MimeticLie]

B&N seems entirely more committed to openness and interoperability than Amazon. The Kindle can't use EPUB files for instance (and no, the existance of Calibre doesn't make up for Amazon trying to lock down its platform, no matter how much Amazon's apologists wish it would). I seriously doubt we'll ever see the same level of hardware openness from Amazon that we see from B&N.

Re:Possible and likely.

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I can't tell if B&N is less evil, or if this just a classic case of the #2-#N players being nicer because they have no chance at catching #1 if they attempt a slavish "just like his walled garden, but worse!" offering..

Re:Possible and likely.

[Threni]

Well, yeah, but still able to run any Android app, so it may be forked, but that won't affect the end user. It will only ever receive Amazon upgrades (if any) but then again, it'll be a console-type known quantity people can develop for knowing it'll run on all of them.

Re:Possible and likely.

[cgenman]

The TechCrunch article about the new Kindle.

Re:Possible and likely.

[Riceballsan]

While I agree on the better for the consumer part. It may or may not work on the better for amazon portion. Amazon may be intending to sell these for below manufacturing cost, expecting to make the money back via app/book/etc.. sales. If they say they were to sell a tablet for 150, that costs them 200 to make, over the life of the product they would likely recoup all of their losses. But if it is easily rootable and placed on google's market or even allows googles market to be added unrooted, and 3/4ths of the customers buying are intending to do so. They may very well be making a product that does nothing more then give google money, at the cost of $50 to them. Losses cannot be compensated for by volume, popularity and smiles, as much as we like to pretend they can.

Re:Possible and likely.

[517714]

That's right. No Google Apps for you! /Soup Nazi

Re:Possible and likely.

[hedwards]

It's probably a case of them not really caring what you do with their product and wanting to make sure that they get a piece of the market. Plus, I'm sure they want to ensure that there are plenty of devices out there that can read their books. That's not as big of a concern now that epub has some steam behind it.

As it is, you can bet that B&N does make a profit on each Nook sold, even if the profit isn't huge.

Re:Possible and likely.

[hedwards]

Not really, that's sort of like saying that when ASUS brought out the initial netbook model that they were competing with the makers of desktop replacements. They're superficially the sane, but they're completely different market segments.

Re:Possible and likely.

[Anonymous Coward]

So, Adobe EPUB DRM is the new measuring stick of openness? Nook and Kindle deal with Hyper-Text Markup Language based books, both of which are reduced to a slightly more RAM friendly chunking. Kindle made the mistake of being first to market, so they are saddled with the mobi that they bought, and a desire to not break everything in a changeover to something without a real advantage. B&N took the Turing-equivalent choice of EPUB because Adobe did, and are therefore the parallel reincarnation of RMS.

To keep users from getting too comfortable with not buying official B&N books, the Nook sequesters unofficial books into a separate menu listing. Amazon dumps bought, stolen, and stolen by the national piracy of finite copyright into the same book list. I'm still confused about who's more open, should I just buy books from Apple?

Re:Possible and likely.

[shutdown -p now]

I would be extremely surprised if Amazon Appstore wasn't on it. And that has most (interesting) apps that are in the Market.

Whether it'll have sideloading, though, is an interesting question.

Re:Possible and likely.

[shutdown -p now]

You do realize that Amazon is trying to compete against Google with this right?

I don't think Amazon is trying to directly compete against anyone. Rather, they want more devices out there that serve as a gateway to their various stores (books, music, video, apps). I guess Kindle was an economic success in that way, and they are now trying to extend the model further.

Re:Possible and likely.

[milkmage]

Apple is in a completely different area?

from the summary
"Amazon has brand recognition, a bevy of existing loyal Kindle e-reader owners, and a Web-based e-commerce platform that includes one-click access to buying e-books, movies, digital music downloads, its own Android app store, and streaming media catalog. That adds up to Amazon being uniquely suited to go head-to-head with Apple in the tablet market and become a formidable competitor across the industry."

completley different how? Does B&N have an app store? I thought the nook (out of the box) was a reader only.

based on this brief hands on, it sounds like it's squarely pointed at apple.

I like MG Siegler, yet despise techcrunch
http://techcrunch.com/2011/09/02/amazon-kindle-tablet/

Re:Possible and likely.

[Opyros]

Has B&N been running any sweatshops lately? If not, they can claim to be less evil than Amazon.

Re:Possible and likely.

[halowolf]

Well Kindle is getting around. I was in my local Woolworths today and there were posters up telling me I could buy a Kindle like it was the most natural thing to buy while checking out. http://woolworths.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/Website/Woolworths/About%20Us/Woolworths-News/Kindle%20e-reader

Re:Possible and likely.

[nedlohs]

Does B&N have an app store? I thought the nook (out of the box) was a reader only.

Yes they do (for their device anyway). And no it isn't.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/u/nookcolor-apps/379002750/

Was i really that hard to take 2 seconds to look before jumping to a conclusion?

based on this brief hands on, it sounds like it's squarely pointed at apple.
I like MG Siegler, yet despise techcrunch
http://techcrunch.com/2011/09/02/amazon-kindle-tablet/

Your own link says:

Yes, Amazon has been able to trim the cost of the device to half of the entry-level iPad. And it will be the same price as Barnes & Noble’s Nook Color, which this will very obviously compete with directly. Both have 7-inch color touch screens. Both run Android.

Re:Possible and likely.

[xstonedogx]

Yes, B&N does have an app store. The Nook Color is essentially a specialized Android tablet. I'd expect Amazon to come out with something similar.

Despite its marriage to iTunes, the iPad is a general purpose device. It's app-centric.

The B&N Nook is book/magazine-centric. It's designed primarily for the consumption of that media.

I'd expect a tablet Kindle to develop along the lines of a media consumption device rather than a general purpose device. At least at first.

Re:Possible and likely.

[AvitarX]

Gmail, and Google contact sync are pretty useful though.

Re:Possible and likely.

[Brahma111]

Amazon's competition here is B&N or rather Amazon is introducing a product to compete with B&N's offering. Apple is in a completely different area.

I don't think so. It was almost a foregone conclusion that Kindle is almost certain to morph into a tablet. With EC2 they have a very strong ecosystem to tap into. Quite a bit of mobile apps rely on cloud to do the bulk of their processing. Amazon can lure all such application developers by giving them a big discount. And that is possible by using the unused processor cycles that Amazon currently has.

Having just an ebook reader is like having a cell phone with no other capabilities than making calls.

Re:Possible and likely.

[Anonymous Coward]

I see your point, but I think its kind of sad that Amazon thinks it can only offer its services in the tablet market if they have full control over the tablet. I think part of this has to do with the Apple's AppStore rule about in-app purchases. As a result of this experience, I guess Amazon thinks that it needs to have full control over the whole tablet OS.

If the rumors are to be believed, I think they are going to sell 7'' tablet for $250. At that price, I doubt that they are going to be selling their tablet below cost.

Re:Possible and likely.

[johnmorganjr]

I hope it works for them, I happen to love my kindle. Not sure if I will get a tablet but hey it does not hurt to have a little more competition out there to keep people developing their products.

Re:Possible and likely.

[Anonymous Coward]

TechCrunch already reviewed the thing. They had it in their hands. You just can't buy it yet.

You're trusting that TechCrunch was (a) telling the truth, (b) correctly informed and (c) working with a prototype that accurately reflects the final product. And either way, that review was littered with so many "I believe", "I understand", "I'm not sure" caveats that it essentially boils down to this: Amazon's releasing a 7-inch Android tablet, running a custom launcher interface.

If you know what the exact tech specs of the tablet are, and in particular whether it has a locked down bootloader or not, then you know more than TechCrunch.

Re:Possible and likely.

[shellbeach]

That's right. No Google Apps for you! /Soup Nazi

Actually, you can get most, if not all, of the google apps (including maps, gmail, search, voice) via GetJar, which itself is a downloadable apk. The only thing you can't get is the market itself. Somewhat surprising, but there you go ...

Re:Possible and likely.

[moronoxyd]

My Archos 70IT came without the Google market, but now I am downloading apps from the Market, so... I'm pretty sure that one can get Google Market on the Amazon Kindle if so inclined ;)

Re:Possible and likely.

[DrXym]

No, Amazon's competition is absolutely Apple. If it were just B&N they'd shove out an updated Kindle and be done with it. Instead it's obvious whatever tablet they put out will be designed to consume content from a range of Amazon services including books, music, video and apps. i.e. it's competing against Apple. And because Amazon is the go-to shopping site running up to christmas you can guarantee they're going to get a lot of eyeballs perusing & buying their device too.

I don't think it's unrealistic if Amazon expected to sell 10 million of these things this year alone.

Re:Possible and likely.

[DrXym]

B&N aren't committed to openness, they're just incompetent at security. Though perhaps if Amazon does spew out a locked down device it might behove B&N to produce a relatively vanilla Android 3.x device which does espouse openness, and also provides access to music & streaming from Google.

Re:Possible and likely.

[MimeticLie]

Look into EPUB. DRM certainly isn't required. However, the ability to use DRM'ed EPUBs is an asset. If you want to use Overdrive or an alternate ebook store that uses DRM, you need EPUBs.

The Nook might have books from other sources in a different list, but the Kindle is makes it impossible to have them period without format shifting.

Re:Possible and likely.

[rtb61]

More accurately Amazon wants to target Apple's interactive market. Amazon is the content distribution cripple because it could not target interactivity and was only aimed at passive consumption of other people's content. In shifting to interactivity, it gains access to the simple gaming market and even simply MMO's.

The world is slowly but surely shifting from passive content consumption to interactive content consumption. It might take quite some to get to a holo-deck but interactivity is inherently more desirable than passive consumption.

Not what I want from Amazon

[janek78]

I hope this whole tablet business will not delay what I really expect from Amazon - a hi-res color e-ink Kindle. Same format but a larger display. And please no touch screen, thank you, I don't want my greasy fingers on the display I read.

Tablets have a long way to go to replace dedicated e-book readers. Until they are easily readable in broad daylight and can last at least couple weeks, there will be a market for Kindle.

Re:Not what I want from Amazon

[Anonymous Coward]

here here, though I'll take the touchscreen. I played with that recent e-ink Barnes and Noble eReader and it's better than the Kindle 3's wonky buttons and keyboard. with the touch screen they could get rid of the keyboard that I never use.

Re:Not what I want from Amazon

[ThorGod]

Tablets have a long way to go to replace dedicated e-book readers. Until they are easily readable in broad daylight and can last at least couple weeks, there will be a market for Kindle.

Couldn't agree more. I think much gruff around any ereader boils down to users who don't actually want to read. I've got a kobo, of all things, and it reads the pdfs I send it's way perfectly well.

Re:Not what I want from Amazon

[93 Escort Wagon]

here here, though I'll take the touchscreen. I played with that recent e-ink Barnes and Noble eReader and it's better than the Kindle 3's wonky buttons and keyboard. with the touch screen they could get rid of the keyboard that I never use.

I used to think the way you do, but I've found - now that I own a Kindle - the buttons work much better for me than a touchscreen does. You can hold it in one hand and still easily advance through pages without having to set your coffee down, for instance.

Re:Not what I want from Amazon

[icebike]

You can hold it in one hand and still easily advance through pages without having to set your coffee down, for instance.

That's what I noticed in about the new B&N Simple Reader. Its light enough to hold one handed and a simple thumb-tap with the same hand will turn the pages. (It has buttons on the side, but I was using it for 10 minutes before I noticed them.)

Buttons are a point of failure. They are just not necessary any more.

Re:Not what I want from Amazon

[oodaloop]

I think much gruff around any ereader boils down to users who don't actually want to read.

Is that what you tell yourself? That people who prefer tablets over ereaders are illiterate luddites? I hate ereaders, and love my Android phone and am actively seeking a good Android tablet. And I love to read. I just prefer treeware books over eink books. I would never trade my real books for digital books, and will not stop buying paper books as long as they sell them. Ereaders are a horrible attempt at replacing real books, and I frankly feel those people who prefer ebooks over real ones are the luddites.

Re:Not what I want from Amazon

[FullBandwidth]

I dug my venerable Kindle out and dusted it off, after working with a variety of tablets over the last few months. I'd forgotten how much smaller & lighter it is, with battery life in months, not days. It's hard to see how to preserve those good traits of a e-reader while also loading it down with features to make it a desktop/laptop/netbook replacement, which seems to be where the tablet market has to go (or has already gone?).

Re:Not what I want from Amazon

[vlm]

And I love to read

Well, at least we have some common ground, however much we otherwise disagree

Ereaders are a horrible attempt at replacing real books

Find me an e-reader, and I'll let you know. According to marketing you're suppose to play artillery games with animated birds, re-purchase and watch movies, listen to music, listen to audiobooks, pretty much ... everything except read... Despite their best attempts, I love reading manuals and datasheets on my ipad. I probably have not printed out a manufacturers datasheet in over a year (think like 200 page tomes from microchip.com for PIC microcontrollers, mosfet transistor datasheets with a zillion performance graphs, that kind of thing, not so much Gibbon and Plutarch)

Re:Not what I want from Amazon

[ThorGod]

Not quite. It's just when I read reviews about the kobo, most were negative, and none accurately portrayed how it handles the pdfs I throw at it.

Like you, I prefer the tree version of books. They're quicker to flip through and I can buy them at local used book stores. But, my kobo/ereader works great for research articles and old, 'freely available' books in pdf form.

Re:Not what I want from Amazon

[vivek7006]

Totally agree. The new nook touch has nailed it. Perfect size and form factor and it weighs less than 7 ounces. I have read more books in last 3 month than I read in the last 3 years, thank to my local public library and nook's support to lending ebooks

Re:Not what I want from Amazon

[cyber-vandal]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hear,_hear

Re:Not what I want from Amazon

[Anonymous Coward]

re: horrible attempt...

*shrug* Stop thinking of an ereader as attempting to replace books, look at it instead as a different type of paper.

Re:Not what I want from Amazon

[shellbeach]

I think much gruff around any ereader boils down to users who don't actually want to read.

Is that what you tell yourself? That people who prefer tablets over ereaders are illiterate luddites?

*laughs* ... I think he was saying "users who don't actually want to read on the device". I'm pretty sure he wasn't implying that people without eink devices are illiterate ...!

Ereaders are a horrible attempt at replacing real books, and I frankly feel those people who prefer ebooks over real ones are the luddites.

Hey, don't knock it 'til you've tried it. I bought a kindle when I went backpacking round the world for five months, fully expecting to dislike the experience but reasoning that since there was no way I could carry all the paper books I would read in that time, it was a necessary evil. But I absolutely loved reading on it, and now that I'm back home I wish the paper books I still have backed up on my reading list were ebooks instead. It's just a more convenient interface for reading, is all -- smaller, lighter, no losing your place and although the typography isn't quite up to pbooks yet it's good enough for me, and I'm notoriously picky about all things formatting. Want to be reading three books at once? You can actually do that now, without carrying around the extra weight.

Re:Not what I want from Amazon

[ThorGod]

I think much gruff around any ereader boils down to users who don't actually want to read.

Is that what you tell yourself? That people who prefer tablets over ereaders are illiterate luddites?

*laughs* ... I think he was saying "users who don't actually want to read on the device". I'm pretty sure he wasn't implying that people without eink devices are illiterate ...!

Thanks for putting taking his words out of my mouth. People, especially on the net, are often too ready and willing to read offensive remarks into anything anyone says. People love a good fight, but that doesn't mean they always hear with their ears and read with their eyes.

Re:Not what I want from Amazon

[itsdapead]

I hope this whole tablet business will not delay what I really expect from Amazon - a hi-res color e-ink Kindle.

Nope, that's waiting on the technology. In particular, for an e-reader (as opposed to smart labels etc.) one of the USPs of e-ink is the clear black text for sustained reading. So there's no point going to colour if the trade-off is fuzzy, muddy brown text - which is what you'll inevitably get if you try and make black from cyan,magenta and yellow sub-pixels. There's a reason why conventional printing uses an additional black plate.

The up-and-coming electrowetting displays sound interesting, in that they're fast enough for animation, and can stack several colours in the same pixel.

Rooted OS coming soon

[craftycoder]

Someone will release a root kit for it and an appropriate Android install will be available shortly. This is pretty cool I think. I purchased a Nook to read with because I wanted an Android device. I'll buy an inexpensive tablet as well if the feature/value ratio is right for me. I'm looking forward to seeing what they have to offer.

Plus Amazon Prime

[AstroMatt]

Also rumored to include a subscription to Amazon Prime - free shipping and the movie streaming service. Not a bad deal if the look and feel is good.

Prediction: In 2 years they'll give you a tablet when you subscribe to Amazon Prime.

Matt Wood
Melbourne, FL

$300 is too much

[Animats]

$300 is too much for an e-reader.

Special-purpose e-readers have to be a lot cheaper than comparable phones and tablets, or they're not going to sell.

Ultimately, the phone/tablet market will probably eat the e-reader market. Look what happened to standalone PDAs.

Re:$300 is too much

[Y-Crate]

Ultimately, the phone/tablet market will probably eat the e-reader market. Look what happened to standalone PDAs.

Except that e-readers offer a screen fundamentally different from those on general-purpose tablets.

I mean, I could read e-books on an iPad, but I'd rather stick with en e-ink screen that won't make my eyes hurt after an hour.

Re:$300 is too much

[node 3]

Ultimately, the phone/tablet market will probably eat the e-reader market. Look what happened to standalone PDAs.

Except that e-readers offer a screen fundamentally different from those on general-purpose tablets.

It all comes down to how many devices people are willing to buy and deal with. Consolidation of devices is a clear trend. Presently, there's a compelling argument in favor of eInk based readers for reading books (but no other function), but it's a tough sell over an iPad or in addition to an iPad in the general market. As it stands, the iPad is a fantastic tablet, and a pretty good ebook reader (with compelling book related features as well). And the benefits of an eReader are going to be less and less notable as the iPad, and possibly other tablets, improve over time.

I mean, I could read e-books on an iPad, but I'd rather stick with en e-ink screen that won't make my eyes hurt after an hour.

Why would your eyes hurt after an hour? I see people say things like this, and it's always on text-based forums by people who most certainly spend hours reading text on their computers without issue.

Re:$300 is too much

[Animats]

Except that e-readers offer a screen fundamentally different from those on general-purpose tablets.

That's going away. Users seem to prefer fast color displays over slow reflective monochrome ones. There's a color Nook, and this new color Kindle is not an "e-Ink" device.

Re:$300 is too much

[Anonymous Coward]

$300 is too much for an e-reader.

Exactly, which is why the Kindle is $119. From all the rumors, this would be a full tablet with access not just to Kindle, but also to Amazon MP3, Amazon Video on Demand, a tablet Amazon store (similar to WindowShop on the iPad), the Amazon AppStore (yes, they have a competitor to the Google Android Appstore, it's been launched like 6 months), etc.

Re:$300 is too much

[cyber-vandal]

Users who don't read for more than an hour at a time perhaps.

Re:$300 is too much

[0123456]

Users who don't read for more than an hour at a time perhaps.

Or outdoors.

Re:$300 is too much

[0123456]

Presently, there's a compelling argument in favor of eInk based readers for reading books (but no other function), but it's a tough sell over an iPad or in addition to an iPad in the general market.

Well, duh. If you're buying a $139 e-ink e-reader you can't really expect it to do the same things as a $500 iPad.

And there have been a number of rumours about Amazon releasing a $99 Kindle for the holiday season, though I've no idea whether they're true.

Re:$300 is too much

[nurb432]

It wont be a dedicated e-book reader, it will be a generic media delivery device, including books, movies, games, music, magazines and news papers..

Re:$300 is too much

[shellbeach]

That's going away. Users seem to prefer fast color displays over slow reflective monochrome ones.

I dunno -- I see a lot more kindles on my train commute than tablets. And I am yet to see anyone reading a novel on a tablet. Ever. (I've seen people reading PDFs for work a few times, but that's as good as it gets ...)

Re:$300 is too much

[mgblst]

Ok, but I would rather have one device. I read on the iPad, 2 books last week alone. I enjoy not having to have an external light source, since I read in lots of different places.

Both our views are valid, but lets see which one lasts. I do not see e-readers sticking around beyond the next few years. I can't see most people having both, and choosing to go with the better all round device. I think that is why Amazon and BN have gone the tablet platform, not trusting ereaders to carry them.

Re:$300 is too much

[xigxag]

Ever? I've read entire novels just on my 4" phone's Kindle app, as well as an Nook color. I do own an e-ink Kindle but haven't used it in almost a year.

Re:$300 is too much

[bignetbuy]

$300 is too much for an e-reader.

Bullshit. Amazon couldn't keep their Kindle v1 and Kindle v2 in stock and those were around $300. When the DX came out, they were SWAMPED with orders. Just because $300 is too expensive for you doesn't mean others can't afford it.

Special-purpose e-readers have to be a lot cheaper than comparable phones and tablets, or they're not going to sell.

Amazon would disagree with you.

Ultimately, the phone/tablet market will probably eat the e-reader market. Look what happened to standalone PDAs.

and yet Amazon still continues to sell Kindle...yet the market is dead, right? *rolls eyes*

Re:$300 is too much

[shellbeach]

Well, I was talking tablets, not phones, and in Australia we don't have access to the Nook color -- so it's kindles or tablets here, really. I can only comment on what I see, and I've just never seen anyone reading novels on tablets (which are, almost universally, iPads). I keep looking, because I find this completely fascinating and rather unexpected ... but that's the way it is, at least on my train line.

Re:$300 is too much

[Sockatume]

Amazon knows that $300 is too much. The existing Kindle won't go away. Maybe it'll be redesigned, it'll almost certainly get cheaper, but a massmarket-priced gateway to Amazon's store that's proven to sell out as quickly as it can be put in the shelves is a project they won't kill.

Re:$300 is too much

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean, I could read e-books on an iPad, but I'd rather stick with en e-ink screen that won't make my eyes hurt after an hour.

I've used LCD-type devices to read on for years. They are perfectly capable of delivering good reading conditions. The problem is that users are unaware of what they have to do to achieve this, and the LCD screens/apps/devices offer many settings which are likely to be misused.

Basically it comes down to small and/or inappropriate fonts as well as inappropriate colors, brightness and contrast.

* You need a font size you're confortable reading without squinting at all (and since some of these devices come in small screen sizes people tend to favor smaller fonts to cram more text onto them).
* The font needs to be serif (sans-serif fonts work for PC screens but for book-like reading you want serif).
* The background must not be pure bright white but an off-white color, also acceptable is pale greyish yellow or green (remember old books with yellowish or greenish paper?)
* The brightness and contrast need to be adjusted all the time, depending on the illumination in the place you're at.
* And yes, you do need ambient light even with a LCD screen (which provides its own light), reading a LCD screen in the dark is quite bad for your eyes.

E Ink devices come out of the box with a decent font and good background color and all the user has to do is adjust the font size. And since there's no brightness and contrast to adjust they will automatically resort to picking proper ambient light, which they should be doing anyway.

Re:$300 is too much

[Anonymous Coward]

...

Except that e-readers offer a screen fundamentally different from those on general-purpose tablets.

I mean, I could read e-books on an iPad, but I'd rather stick with en e-ink screen that won't make my eyes hurt after an hour.

I own kindle/iphone and ipad and read on all of them in addition to my laptop:
Try lowering the brightness all the way down and using the yellowish background. I find that I enjoy reading on my iphone the most because it's always with me and light to hold. I will use the ipad when in bed because then I can lean it on something and don't have to hold it. Only advantage is that I don't have to switch pages as often but that is not worth getting an ipad for. I also own a kindle and use it when reading in the bath. I still prefer the iphone but worry much less about dropping a kindle in the water.

Of course if to you the kindle is the easiest to read than you also get much better battery life. For me the convenience of the all-in-one iphone beats everything else. I like to travel really light.

Re:$300 is too much

[cayenne8]

I dunno -- I see a lot more kindles on my train commute than tablets.

Hmm...I've yet to see anyone riding trains before...

:)

Then again, I've never lived in a city with trains before...at least none used for passengers on them.

The tablet you want

[Anonymous Coward]

Retina display
Open OS with no jailbreaking

Useful?

[vlm]

will tether closely to its music, movie and digital book content

Before purchase, I thought I'd use my ipad for that, because that's what marketing said; After purchase, I never do. Its an absolutely killer email reader, a fantastic web browser, great pdf reader (manuals, etc). I play games on it occasionally. Avadon etc. My coworkers have about the same story... repeating the marketers mantra before purchase of consume consume consume media, yet after purchase it's entirely different, electronic paper plus some video games.

There is quite a separation between what the marketing people demand I purchase it for, and what I've seen people actually use it for after purchase. I have a good feeling about it because the actual use turns out to be more valuable than I was expecting.

Amazon might want to watch out; if competitors start marketing toward what tablets are actually used for, they might get left in the dust. Someday I'll want to buy a replacement for my ipad, at that time I'm going to jump at advertisements for "instant on" and "great email reader" and "really awesome webbrowser" and "smooth pdf rendering". I'm going to avoid advertisements about how this is the 50th media format I should buy a full collection of Beetles music on, or how I should re-purchase my complete DVD collection (again) for their new gadget, because that simply didn't work out as an interest for me on my current tablet.

Re:Useful?

[DrVomact]

will tether closely to its music, movie and digital book content

Before purchase, I thought I'd use my ipad for that, because that's what marketing said; After purchase, I never do. Its an absolutely killer email reader, a fantastic web browser, great pdf reader (manuals, etc). I play games on it occasionally. Avadon etc. ... I'm going to avoid advertisements about how this is the 50th media format I should buy a full collection of Beetles music on, or how I should re-purchase my complete DVD collection (again) for their new gadget, because that simply didn't work out as an interest for me on my current tablet.

Isn't that the heart of the problem? Everyone wants to sell media, but they all want to sell it in a proprietary format through proprietary channels so that they can control the media you buy. It's like having to buy paper books printed in such a way that you have to wear special decoding glasses to read—and of course, you can only buy the books from the glasses vendor, because other vendor's books won't be properly decoded. This is stupid, and I'm not switching to e-books until a reasonably wide selection of books is available in an open format from diverse vendors, and there is a selection of e-book readers (or tablet PCs or whatever you want to call them) available that will work with this format. The format itself could be something pretty simple: XHTML with user-customizeable styles, and maybe PNG graphics.

Re:Useful?

[vlm]

This is stupid, and I'm not switching to e-books until a reasonably wide selection of books is available in an open format from diverse vendors, and there is a selection of e-book readers (or tablet PCs or whatever you want to call them) available that will work with this format.

We've certainly got that. Torrent sites up the wazoo for all formats and U****t's format of choice for technical non-fiction is the pdf.

Oh, you meant legal providers. Well, this is kinda like music was in about 1999, maybe a little later... A few crappy proprietary formats, and everyone trading free formats on the net. There are some exceptions... Baen knows what they're doing, and as such, is one of few publishers to make money off me.

Re:Useful?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes and the marketing got you to pay $250 more because you fell for it, the things you DO do can be done quite well on the nook for $250 less then what you paid (I use it to actually read books, but it is a decent web browser that guess what supports flash, great for email and perfect size for PDF documents) so as you can see the Marketing arm is working perfectly and Amazon nor Apple need to watch out because rarely do people spend a great deal of time researching what will work for them or wait long enough to read reviews of the product and what is done with them but will go based on the marketing that have seen.

Re:Useful?

[vlm]

Yes and the marketing got you to pay $250 more because you fell for it, the things you DO do can be done quite well on the nook for $250 less then what you paid

Nah I already had a little handheld that was too small and a netbook that was too big and takes 2 minutes to boot... The ipad screen is about twice the size of the original nook screen. It was an intentional decision to select a device "about the size of a book". Not a postcard, not a really big postage stamp, not a floor tile sized laptop/netbook.

I have not been keeping up with the market, no need for me. It might be that "nook" is like "eee" was, and now refers to a generic family of products, and there's a nook branded device that has the ipad form factor, battery life, and resolution. But in early 2010 there was simply no comparison. In 2012 or 2013 or whenever my ipad meets its demise, I will consider its competitors...

I don't want flash because I'm not interested in animated advertisements.

Re:Useful?

[Threni]

> This is stupid, and I'm not switching to e-books until a reasonably wide selection of books is
> available in an open format from diverse vendors

So, Kindle and PDFs, then?
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/32987/how-to-read-pdf-files-on-your-amazon-kindle-version-3/

There, that wasn't too difficult, was it?

Re:Useful?

[0123456]

Oh, you meant legal providers. Well, this is kinda like music was in about 1999, maybe a little later... A few crappy proprietary formats, and everyone trading free formats on the net.

All books on Smashwords are DRM-free and many books on Amazon are DRM-free. I was actually surprised when I bought a Kindle book recently and discovered it was DRM-infested, so now I do check before buying them.

Re:Useful?

[anethema]

There is a new nook that is basically a generic android tablet.

It is about half as responsive and nice to use, like basically all the android tablets up to date.

Tiny things like 100-300 ms lag in the UI, shuttery picture browsing, inconsistent web behavior etc dont matter to the hardcore 'geeks' but the market is showing that the fit and finish matter in the end.

Other than that the nook is actually a fairly nice android tablet. Cheap and as usable as any of em.

Re:Useful?

[gwolf]

No, what is difficult is to read the goddamn PDF.

PDFs are printed page descriptions. An e-reader has very different constraints and logic. An ideal ebook is way closer to simplified HTML than to a PDF.

But still - Whatever you can get in HTML, it's almost trivial to convert to the venerable MOBI format. I have not needed to generate EPUB, although I understand it's a very similar process.

Re:Useful?

[shellbeach]

All books on Smashwords are DRM-free and many books on Amazon are DRM-free. I was actually surprised when I bought a Kindle book recently and discovered it was DRM-infested, so now I do check before buying them.

Huh? Every book I've purchased from Amazon (mostly literature) has been clad in DRM rubbish. I know this, because I strip them of it before putting them on my kindle ...

Re:Useful?

[shellbeach]

This is stupid, and I'm not switching to e-books until a reasonably wide selection of books is available in an open format from diverse vendors, and there is a selection of e-book readers (or tablet PCs or whatever you want to call them) available that will work with this format. The format itself could be something pretty simple: XHTML with user-customizeable styles, and maybe PNG graphics.

Relax. The DRM of most (all?) major ebook publishers is easily breakable, and because of backwards compatibility with older devices they're locked into these breakable DRM models forever, more or less.

I pay for all my ebooks. I also strip the DRM off all of my ebooks (and occasionally correct the terrible formatting that the publisher's used.) And from there, I can convert them into any format I like. (epub is generally accepted as the default open format and essentially what you just described (zipped xhtml with css), although even something like Amazon's .mobi is technically an open format now ...)

Re:Useful?

[0123456]

You must be reading the wrong books.

As I said, I check for DRM before buying now, after someone on an earlier Slashdot thread told me how to spot the DRM-infested books.

Re:Useful?

[shellbeach]

You must be reading the wrong books.

Well, they're the right books for me ... :) I read mostly literature, but also some non-fiction works. What books are you buying that aren't DRM-encrypted?

As I said, I check for DRM before buying now, after someone on an earlier Slashdot thread told me how to spot the DRM-infested books.

I'm genuinely curious here -- are you only reading books that are already available in the public domain, or are Amazon selling currently published, commercial, copyright works out there without DRM encryption? That's amazing if so, and kudos to Amazon for doing this. I'd love it if Amazon moved away from a DRM model, but I can't realistically see this happening (I mean, they presumably need to reassure wary publishers that they're trying to prevent piracy!)

Re:Useful?

[m50d]

Is the ipad not up to watching videos? I stream episodes on my eee transformer all the time; it somehow feels nicer than just watching them on a monitor or even a laptop. Maybe it's just the novelty of it.

Re:Useful?

[Anonymous Coward]

What, you mean like EPUB? Zipped HTML bundles.

Re:Useful?

[assertation]

I find the idea of ebooks abhorrent. I will become a last adopter, when not using them will cause problems for my life. At that point I believe the format wars will be over. I'll let other people pay for the development of those things.

It depends on what Amazon introduces

[Anonymous Coward]

If Amazon just introduces an upgrade to the Kindle that happens to be a tablet and run Android at its core, it's not going to be that big a deal, IMO. If it's going to release something that's as good as the iPad, it's going to have to cost about as much as an iPad, because it's hard to make money on a similar product otherwise. It's hard to see Amazon (or any company) investing that much money into design, production and managing a supply chain simply to break even -- when it could have sold its digital products on other platforms without tying up all that capital. If Amazon tries to have a cheaper product -- in order to have a cheaper price -- the experience won't be in the same ballpark as the iPad (even if you like Android as a tablet OS). If the company tries to make a product that's as good as the iPad (at break even, which doesn't make business sense), then most people are going to feel that it's a cut-rate product if it's priced less.

Yes, the geeks will buy some of these and root them or whatever, but geeks aren't the real market anymore for these devices. It's "normal" people out there who will make it successful or not. I'm having trouble seeing a profitable scenario for Amazon unless it's simply doing a cheap tablet that's an upgrade to the existing Kindle line. If that's the case, it won't even be in the same market as the iPad.

Maybe

[Anonymous Coward]

They'll be successful. But Android doesn't win on features or apps. It can only win on price. And if Oracle wins their case, Android is dead.

FAIL

[CaryMG]

This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of .... This is just yet ANOTHER in a long line of Android tablets DOOMED to failure. What, because it has an Amazon.Com overlay & free "Amazon Prime" makes it any different?!? And it doesn't even use Android3/4 !!!! Whoever buys this load-o'-horseshite *deserves* to be rooked of thier hardearned dough. Like everyone says: There is no *tablet* market, there's an *iPad* market ....

Re:FAIL

[IANAAC]

Like everyone says: There is no *tablet* market, there's an *iPad* market ....

I'm not so sure. There's an "iPad market" because Apple has done a fantastic job of marketing it. The long line of failed android tablets you refer to are still out there being sold, though.

All it'll take is a big enough company to put some serious marketing (and aggressive pricing) into their android tablet. Then you'll start to see more than just iPads in Starbucks. As it stands now, android is capable of doing everything iOS does on the same or lower hardware.\

If there's a company that could do it, it would probably be Amazon. They're big enough, and they have a large catalog of all sorts of media to back up whatever they come up with.

Re:FAIL

[Anonymous Coward]

Steve?

I thought when you stepped down, we wouldn't be exposed to your fanboism.

You and your shiny ilk sure are cool, tho'.

Are there 72 virgins waiting in heaven for ipad users.

regards,

Re:FAIL

[Anonymous Coward]

"is capable of doing everything iOS does on the same or lower hardware"

Sadly not true since most applications aren't native, and JIT optimization or not, aren't quite as fast, let alone faster. iOS is very quick, Apple dislike aside.

Re:FAIL

[Courageous]

Amazon is in the position of being able to loss-lead their tablet. As the HP tablet experience shows, price it low enough and even a bricklet will sell.

any rumours on the next Amazon e-ink device?

[Hazel Bergeron]

I don't care about another iPad clone. Any rumours on the next e-ink device? E-ink are doing some moderately interesting things with a colour filter in front of the display, so I guess it's possible they'll adopt that. But no-one's talking about it.

Re:any rumours on the next Amazon e-ink device?

[NightLamp]

I also wish this was being talked about more, I am not interested in 10 hour battery life, I'm interested in a 15 day battery life for a tablet - it doesn't require a back-lit LCD 60Hz screen, but an app store would be nice.

I wonder at this point what the best multi-purpose e-ink tablet is?

Re:any rumours on the next Amazon e-ink device?

[shutdown -p now]

"Multipurpose eInk tablet" is an oxymoron with the current limitations of that technology - most notably screen refresh rate, and also color fidelity (last I checked, even the most recent color eInk has something like 16 colors, and does the rest with dithering). If you tried to use a web browser on any of eInk readers out there, you know what I mean.

There are other technologies out there which, in theory, offer all the benefits of eInk (reflective screen with no backlight, very low power consumption) while still allowing for fast refresh rate and colors when you need them - namely, Pixel Qi and Mirasol. In practice, I have a PQi tablet, and I'm not at all impressed with the contrast of the screen in reflective mode; and there is no product with Mirasol available on the market today.

Re:any rumours on the next Amazon e-ink device?

[shellbeach]

I also wish this was being talked about more, I am not interested in 10 hour battery life, I'm interested in a 15 day battery life for a tablet - it doesn't require a back-lit LCD 60Hz screen, but an app store would be nice.

I doubt you'll get that anytime soon. One of the reason why eink devices have such great battery life is that they never power the screen except for when it is refreshed. Reading books, you only refresh the screen when you turn a page, meaning that your battery lasts forever. But if you want to do tablet-y things like surf the web, play games, etc -- things you do with apps, in other words -- you'll be refreshing the screen much more and your battery life will plummet.

An e-ink reader is a one-trick pony; it just happens to do that trick so exceptionally well that it leaves anything else right now for dead. I'd also like to see a new, higher-resolution e-ink kindle come out, preferable with a better contrast screen. But I don't want it running apps or Android or anything else -- I just want it for reading books. Everything else I can do on my phone or my netbook.

Re:any rumours on the next Amazon e-ink device?

[drinkypoo]

(last I checked, even the most recent color eInk has something like 16 colors, and does the rest with dithering)

Shit, that's only four times as many colors as your newspaper. I don't know about you, but mine frequently fails to line up the color separation, so it looks like smashed assholes. Often I have a hard time even figuring out what the picture is supposed to be. Sixteen colors sounds fantastic. Further, they could potentially do stuff you simply can't do with a computer screen, like implement fluorescent colors, or maybe even a metallic reflective. Three or four more colors added to CMYK ought to give very good results at lower resolutions for most images, so it seems like sixteen would offer some really interesting potential.

Different Approach Than Apple's Other Competitors

[Anonymous Coward]

I feel like this is a very different approach than Apple's other competitors have taken. Amazon has been smart enough to setup services and attract users before launching a tablet full blown tablet. Amazon's music store, Android market, Book Store, etc are all excellent services that have good user bases. Other competitors haven't gone so far as to create top notch services to support their tablets and I think that has been a contributing factor to their failure.

hmmhmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

And this will miss the entire point of why kindle is so popular,

1. Super light weight
2. REDICULOUS battery life

and be left in the dust by the iPad again, just like every other tablet.

How about a Google + Amazon merger?

[BayaWeaver]

That will create the ultimate anti-Apple. Amazon's store is the only one right now that can compete with Apple's App store and if that becomes the de facto Google Android store, that will mean the first real competitor to the iDevice/App Store ecosystem. And Google's cloud + Amazon's cloud will be mother of all clouds too.

Re:How about a Google + Amazon merger?

[Anonymous Coward]

I completely agree. Amazon and Google need to collaborate together to compete against Apple. Instead, Amazon wants to take Apple on its own.

Color E-ink display or I don't care

[Psychofreak]

My wife loves her Kindle. She uses it a whole lot, and the battery life is incredible and nearly what is advertised (30 days!). I would like one too, but I want color E-ink. I know, it only matters with maybe one of 10 documents I read. (especially considering that I reference out-of-print scans from Google books rather frequently)

Failing color E-ink, I probably will not get a Kindle.

Phil

why eyes hurt

[tfigment]

Why would your eyes hurt after an hour?

I couldn't say why some peoples eyes hurt since that is not my area of expertise but I can tell you that my eyes hurt after reading on my nook color after a couple of hours. I also have a first gen kindle and do not have the same problem with it. I am a software developer and am in front of computer screens all day reading text of monitors without issue.

Maybe its a quality of light issue or refresh rates or something but it happens at least in my experience.

In the end I would put money on tablets winning the battle over e-ink over time unless e-ink vendors can put out some quality color screens that update quickly fairly soon just because they are more versatile at the moment.

Re:why eyes hurt

[0123456]

I couldn't say why some peoples eyes hurt since that is not my area of expertise but I can tell you that my eyes hurt after reading on my nook color after a couple of hours. I also have a first gen kindle and do not have the same problem with it. I am a software developer and am in front of computer screens all day reading text of monitors without issue.

There's a big difference between reading a book on a monitor and reading bits and pieces of source code; in the former case you start at the beginning and continue reading to the end, in the latter you're moving between sections of code and your eyes aren't just reading non-stop.

Well, unless you get your kicks from reading through 100,000 words of C++ code anyway.

That is how Android comes for free

[symbolset]

With Android Marketplaces there is a fee, terms and conditions. If they want to offer it on those terms they have to roll their own app store, and Google is not likely to build their apps for it. There doesn't have to be any dark motive to playing by the rules.

Color e-ink tablet

[nurb432]

Dont hold your breath. I doubt we will see one here in the USA until 2013. That said, I'm also hoping for one, but i wont delude my self thinking it will happen soon.

Oh, and i prefer the touch screen since i rarely have to 'type' ( its a reader, not a data entry system ), so the extra real estate sucked up by the keypad is annoying. Its one of the reasons why i eventually 'traded' my kindle Gen1 to a Nook Touch instead of a gen 3 kindle ( that and the nook was rootable )

Future of e-ink

[nurb432]

I just hope this does not spell the end of e-ink in favor of LCD. Each has their use, and i refer reading on e-ink any day. ( tho i want color... ).

US Only

[kyhwana]

My guess is that this will be US only, so it'll be useless outside the US even if you can have someone in the US buy it for you and ship it to you.

Multipurpose usually equals fast-screened

[gwolf]

What users expect from a device that looks and smells like a tablet is touch-screeny, with animations, with kewl effects, where you can rotate and the screen elegantly redraws itself. And, I'm sorry, you just will not see a fast e-ink screen. It's just a very different thing, with a very different purpose.

Nook Color Clone

[megoogler]

Nook Color Android-based tablet/eReader from Barnes & Noble has been on the market for over a year and sold millions of units at $250. Gives Flash, apps, videos, color magazines and ebooks with video inserts, and the best anti-glare coated screen on the market. Technology "leader" Amazon is finally catching up with the book store company by copying their device. Kindle only supports eBooks in its proprietary AZW format. Nook, on the other hand, supports both DRM-protected and DRM-free ebooks in ePub format thus it supports ebooks from B&N store, from any other DRM-free source on the web, and from public libraries. If you walk in with the Nook to Barnes & Noble store, you’re allowed to read any available eBook for free while in the store via free provided in the store Wi-Fi. Nook Color has several apps that already come with the device (Pandora Internet radio, QuickOffice, etc.) and hundreds of other apps are available for download. Also, you can use the Social Settings screen to link your NOOK Color to your Facebook account and your Twitter account. You can also import all your contacts from your Google Gmail account. Once you have linked to Facebook and Twitter and set up email contacts, you can lend and borrow books, recommend books, and share favorite quotes with your friends. Nook store has over 2 million of paid books and about the same number of free public domain books.

Re:Nook Color Clone

[xigxag]

Nice press release. People would have more respect for these kinds of postings if you would include a disclaimer that you're writing on behalf of B&N.

Re:Nook Color Clone

[caseih]

You're wrong about the Kindle's format support. It supports non-DRM mobi files just fine. And with Calibre, something I'd use with the Nook too, you can convert any non-DRM format to any other non-DRM format. In any event the Kindle certainly is not locked to the walled garden. I read non-DRM books on my Kindle exclusively.

Extension but not a replacement

[martinve]

I can see Amazon tablet as an extension but definitely not as a replacement of existing Kindle family. The primary advantage of dedicated e-book readers - long battery life - is just not there.

Apple competitors are DOOMED to failure

[Brannon]

until they learn that Apple's secret isn't "marketing".

Apple is quite happy for you to continue to rattle away about iSheep and marketing because as long as you do, you will NEVER threaten their market share. So, yeah, have fun with that.

Re:Apple competitors are DOOMED to failure

[IANAAC]

until they learn that Apple's secret isn't "marketing".

Apple is quite happy for you to continue to rattle away about iSheep and marketing because as long as you do, you will NEVER threaten their market share. So, yeah, have fun with that.

I sense anger in your post. Why is that? There was no anger, nor me bleating on about iSheep, etc. in my initial post.

The fact is, Apple DOES do a great job at marketing. I've not seen anywhere near the amount of marketing for any other tablet currently on the market, and there are a few.

My point was that it's going to take a huge company with lots of cash, as well as other assets (read media to consume and a ready-made market to sell that media) to get anywhere close to the iPad's current position. And if any company is in a position to do that, it's probably Amazon.

But that was a mighty fine knee-jerk there.

Re:Apple competitors are DOOMED to failure

[painandgreed]

until they learn that Apple's secret isn't "marketing".

Actually, it is about 'marketing'. However, the people who use that term here aren't using it correctly. They are using it to mean 'advertising' which is one portion of marketing. Their are many other parts such as figuring out what the market wants, how much the market will pay, how to deliver it to the market, and doing so in the time that the market is ready to accept it. Apple has almost always had good advertising but has failed previously in other areas when they have released products that weren't ready for market or were improperly leveraged. eg the Pippen or the Newton. They have been very careful in the last couple of years to make sure their products were ready and not ruined by other companies desires for things the market didn't want.

The answer

[Anonymous Coward]

We already know the answer - it will fail because of lack of magic. Without magic you need a $99 price point in order to sell tablets in current market if you are not Apple.

6GB Storage? No thanks.

[BacchusPS]

I can't see how this competes with the iPad with only 6GB of local storage. The Kindle only has 3GB, but it's only storing text. 6GB just doesn't cut it when they position this as a general media player, not when accessing more of your data/content is dependent on wi-fi availability tm get at the Amazon cloud services. I was looking forward to this as a possible competitor to the iPad, and while this article and others suggest it may be, I just don't see it. There's no way I can guarantee I'll only want to use this in places where I can get wi-fi, especially when traveling for business or pleasure. It may keep the price down, and result in silly articles like this that say it's low price and Amazon brand name make it a competitor to the iPad. In reality though it doesn't compete or compare at all - much less storage, no camera, dependent on access to the cloud for effective usability. When I read the MG Siegler article a few weeks ago that this article includes a link to I lost any interest in the Kindle tablet. I'll stick to the dedicated reader version of the Kindle I already have and either get an iPad 2 or wait for the iPad 3. It's a shame though. A viable alternative would be nice if only to give Apple a competitor that might keep them innovating and improving the iPad.

Coup de grace...

[Dark Lord of Ohio]

Well, well... add to the price a free 3G worldwide for Amazon shopping, basic internet services (probably Facebook) and you have a killer for an iPad. 6GB, not much, but hey, I have an iPad 16GB and use maybe 1/3 of it, mostly for useless crap, like videos I am not going to see. Give the people an Amazon rent-a-book service (share-a-book - connect it with Facebook) and it will be coup the grace.

Easy to win the Tablet war at this time:

[crhylove]

A) Make it cheaper than all the other tablets. Corner the market by throwing money at it. Make a $150 tablet that is every bit as functional as a netbook, and watch them sell like hot cakes.

B) Make it boot stock Cyanogenmod. Also have it be able to run Linux Mint and also Windows XP. Don't include them by default, but have them runnable out of the box. Easily runnable. None of this rooting crap. Include links to the custom Linux and ReactOS distros right in the opening tutorial. Give it an easily triple boot boot loader.

C) Include a couple of killer apps that don't currently exist. A really good video chat, at least as good as google's video chat, but with no sign in, just any email address would work, and anybody in your contact list is already added to your buddy list. For good measure have it able to connect to skype, google+, and google talk video chat.

D) Give it stylus capability and a great GIMP/airbrush program that really works, really well out of the box.

E) Include an excellent ereader and every text out of copyright downloadable for free in an easy to read format. Also include a great organization to find and download them. Something better than currently exists.

Do these 5 things, and you will beat them all: Apple, Google, Microsoft, Barnes and Noble, Amazon, HTC, Samsung, all of them.

Ah, who am I kidding. None of these corporations are smart enough to really go big like this. Fucking chicken shit bean counters the lot of them.

Re:Easy to win the Tablet war at this time:

[Anonymous Coward]

So, these features will take two or three years to develop. But I'm sure there will still be 2% of the market remaining by that time.

Re:Easy to win the Tablet war at this time:

[bWareiWare.co.uk]

A) This is critical, but you have to allow some penny pinching if you expect them to achieve it.

B) The critical point is to release open-source drivers. If they work you will get full Cyanogenmod support within 12 hours of release whatever else you do. If you wrote them cleanly and didn't really too much on the Android patches they will also end up in the Linux Kernel and all distros in due course. XP/React is a none-starter; any tablet I buy will be ARM.

C) Hard to argue that Skype/Facetime/Google Talk don't exist, but supporting them can't hurt. Real innovative Apps shouldn't be locked to one device, let them each succeed on their own merits. The is plenty of innovation left in the hardware:
- A hybrid e-ink/LCD transflective display.
- Swappable batteries (in different sizes).
- 3D (Please no, but it is inevitable someone tries)
- Kinect
- Ruggedized
- Sensible number of USB and full-sized SDs

D) Yes, please yes. Just buy Wacom and use Cintiq technology at a mass-market price point. Again just release the hardware, GIMP, MyPaint and the test will get ported.

E) The are lots of eReaders, nearly all have Project Gutenberg support, what are they missing?

Re:Easy to win the Tablet war at this time:

[itsdapead]

A) Make it cheaper than all the other tablets. Corner the market by throwing money at it. Make a $150 tablet that is every bit as functional as a netbook, and watch them sell like hot cakes.

Except... so far all the "iPad class" tablets have cost the same as the iPad. Maybe this is because the manufacturers are greedy and want the same margins as Apple, but it does look a little bit like $500 is a realistic price for that much hardware. Of course, Amazon might be able to make it a loss leader against anticipated media sales.

B) Make it boot stock Cyanogenmod. Also have it be able to run Linux Mint and also Windows XP.

ROTFL.

Seriously, that's a complete nerds-eye view of the issue - the bulk of the tablet buying public doesn't give a wet slap about alternate OSs. Also, if the success of Apple and the failure (in the mobile arena) of Microsoft has shown anything, its that mobile devices need mobile software. XP and regular Linux would be unusable on a tablet. We had XP tablets before the iPad - they failed.

A really good video chat, at least as good as google's video chat, but with no sign in, just any email address would work, and anybody in your contact list is already added to your buddy list.

Isn't that pretty much a description of Apple's "facetime"?

D) Give it stylus capability and a great GIMP/airbrush program that really works, really well out of the box.

That could be a killer app for a small group (those currently salivating over one of those nice Wacom display/tablets) but would it have mass appeal? The success of tablets so far seems to be as "consumption" devices. Also, what is the actual resolution of the capacitive touchscreens used on tablets - all the available styli seem to be "finger shaped". Making a touchscreen that worked well for both stylus and fingers could be expensive.

E) Include an excellent ereader and every text out of copyright downloadable for free in an easy to read format. Also include a great organization to find and download them. Something better than currently exists.

I agree that an out-of-copyright bookstore with the same nice browsing/recommending/reviewing features as, say Amazon, would be a really, really nice feature. Amazon do have a "free classics" section, and links to other free sites, but you have to dig a bit to find it. I can't for the life of me think why the people with bookstore experience (e.g. Amazon) don't make it easier to find free books. Answers on the back of a $20 bill, please.

Seriously, though, its no Amazon, but the Project Gutenberg website isn't exactly rocket science.

Do these 5 things, and you will beat them all: Apple, Google, Microsoft, Barnes and Noble, Amazon, HTC, Samsung, all of them.

The way the wind is currently blowing, its just going to be Apple to beat, unless Google or Amazon pull a rabbit out of the hat. I half suspect that Apple's patent shenanigans are just short-term efforts to try to block a series of HP-style fire sales of Xooms and Galaxy Tabs this holiday season, after no bugger buys them.

Yes, the B&N nook is a hit with the Slashdot crowd who want a cheap tablet to hack, but I doubt that is enough to make it a huge, sustainable commercial success on the scale of the iPad.

Re:Easy to win the Tablet war at this time:

[itsdapead]

- A hybrid e-ink/LCD transflective display.

Nice - when the technology is mature. However, currently e-ink can't refresh fast enough for a tablet-style UI so you'd have to power up the LCD for every interaction. Also, you'd have to stick the LCD in front of the e-Ink without reducing the readability of the e-ink display.

- Swappable batteries (in different sizes).

There's a good reason why tablets and e-readers have non-swappable batteries: making a battery safely swappable adds a lot of bulk for the same amount of battery. You have to build in a battery door, a protective partition so you can change the battery without getting crap in the works, enough tolerance to be able to insert and remove it, spring-loaded contacts... then the battery itself has to be cased and re-enforced so it doesn't get snapped in half or shorted out when its carried outside the tablet (bad karma with a lithium cell!). This in a market where every millimeter shaved off the thickness is a selling point.

- 3D (Please no, but it is inevitable someone tries)

Stereoscopy sucks. The head-position sensing idea sounds promising, though.

- Ruggedized

Buy a case. Then you can take it off when you're not doing extreme sports.

- Sensible number of USB and full-sized SDs

More bulk - and increasingly irrelevant in the wireless age. Tablets are fundamentally handheld devices - how many cables do you want hanging off them? Via adapters, the iPad can connect to USB, SD, VGA, HDMI, Component and Composite - adding separate connectors for that level of connectivity would make for a much larger/thicker case and/or you'd still need a micro-to-fullsize adapter for each port.

Remember: even the original iPad was a tad on the thick/heavy side for sustained reading/media viewing. That's one reason why the Kindle is nicer for reading books on. The iPad 2 was an improvement, I'm sure the iPad 3 will shave a bit more off. You do not want to do anything to make it thicker or heavier.

Re:Easy to win the Tablet war at this time:

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you're on to something though. But I would suggest this:
Make it inexpensive: Leverage the Amazon services of cloud video/music/book/whatever services to help pay for it.
That's it. Video game consoles take a hit on the hardware and make it up on software. This is the same strategy. The HP Touchpad fiasco shows that customers want cheap tablets. Personally, I didn't even know I wanted a tablet until they cost a hundred bucks.

Re:Easy to win the Tablet war at this time:

[Anonymous Coward]

A) Make it cheaper than all the other tablets. Corner the market by throwing money at it. Make a $150 tablet that is every bit as functional as a netbook, and watch them sell like hot cakes.

Not possible. The hardware in an iPad costs something like $200-300, and by the time that cost comes down enough the iPad will have improved it's hardware offering to keep it at it's current price range just with more features. A $150 tablet simply can't compete with a $500 tablet for hardware quality. Here's a hint Apple makes a small margin on the low end iPad to keep competitors from under selling them, and rakes it in for the high end ones (where they add some flash memory and charge up to $300 more).

B) Make it boot stock Cyanogenmod. Also have it be able to run Linux Mint and also Windows XP. Don't include them by default, but have them runnable out of the box. Easily runnable. None of this rooting crap. Include links to the custom Linux and ReactOS distros right in the opening tutorial. Give it an easily triple boot boot loader.

No one wants this. In fact you don't even want this. What would you actually do with XP on a tablet that can barely boot the OS?

C) Include a couple of killer apps that don't currently exist. A really good video chat, at least as good as google's video chat, but with no sign in, just any email address would work, and anybody in your contact list is already added to your buddy list. For good measure have it able to connect to skype, google+, and google talk video chat.

OK, this one is at least possible. However video chat isn't useful unless the other person also has video chat. Might want to choose a different killer app.

D) Give it stylus capability and a great GIMP/airbrush program that really works, really well out of the box.

Would kill the battery. An active digitizer sucks down the power. It would also be bulky as it's both another layer to the screen and because you'd need shielding between it and the battery to avoid interference. Also this would add significant cost and thus make your impossible "A" even more impossible.

E) Include an excellent ereader and every text out of copyright downloadable for free in an easy to read format. Also include a great organization to find and download them. Something better than currently exists.

Not realistic. There are already good search systems, and systems for downloading free books. On top of that servers and bandwidth cost money. This would be a huge cash sink. It would be much more practical to charge $.99 a book than to give them away. And for the record Amazon does exactly that.

Do these 5 things, and you will beat them all: Apple, Google, Microsoft, Barnes and Noble, Amazon, HTC, Samsung, all of them.

Ah, who am I kidding. None of these corporations are smart enough to really go big like this. Fucking chicken shit bean counters the lot of them.

And if the Allies had listened to the guy who suggested "make the flashlight beams solid" the Germans wouldn't have been able to bomb London. An idea has to be possible in order to be useful.

Re:Easy to win the Tablet war at this time:

[Anonymous Coward]

Might as well make it shoot rainbow unicorns out it's USB ports while your at it. Realistically:

A) So they should sell it at a loss....
B) So your implying it should be x86 based by saying it needs to run Windows XP - which will kill the battery life tremendously.
C) So no sign on, but it magically knows your buddy list?
D and E) are not as crazy.

Do these 5 things, and the company would be out of business.

Re:Easy to win the Tablet war at this time:

[Anonymous Coward]

A) Make it cheaper than all the other tablets.

Hard to do. There's a reason it's been hard to beat Apple's price, even with smaller (7") tablets. Volume and contracts are hard to overcome without... volume and contracts!

B) Make it boot stock Cyanogenmod. Also have it be able to run Linux Mint and also Windows XP.

XP is already proven not to be a super popular tablet OS. 99% of consumers (100% of non-Slashdot users) have no clue with Cyanogenmod or Linux Mint is, nor do they really care. Cyanogenmod is a tough word to market.

Include links to the custom Linux and ReactOS distros right in the opening tutorial. Give it an easily triple boot boot loader.

Yeah. Consumers are DYING for that.

C) Include a couple of killer apps that don't currently exist. A really good video chat, at least as good as google's video chat, but with no sign in, just any email address would work, and anybody in your contact list is already added to your buddy list. For good measure have it able to connect to skype, google+, and google talk video chat.

One thing's for sure. It's easy to think of a killer app that nobody else thought of, and develop it quickly. And make millions use it. I bet it should be free too, and advertising free as well. And open source.

D) Give it stylus capability and a great GIMP/airbrush program that really works, really well out of the box.

Time and time again, the market has proven just how much stylus' are wanted in PDAs, phones and tablets. Oh wait. Never mind.

E) Include an excellent ereader and every text out of copyright downloadable for free in an easy to read format. Also include a great organization to find and download them. Something better than currently exists.

Do these 5 things, and you will beat them all: Apple, Google, Microsoft, Barnes and Noble, Amazon, HTC, Samsung, all of them.

Ah, who am I kidding. None of these corporations are smart enough to really go big like this. Fucking chicken shit bean counters the lot of them.

Between Google's free books, Archive.org's and Project Gutenberg, plus the fact that there are eReaders on every platform in existence, you really think this is going to revolutionize sales?

I don't think the problem is that the bean counters are scared. I think it's that if they build your project, they won't have any beans to count. I doubt very many people on Slashdot care about the product you described. but it certainly won't sell in volume.

Capitalism versus Sustainability?

[Anonymous Coward]

A tablet is a mini-computer with a touchscreen interface, which is useful in all kinds of ways but is essentially a mobile storefront. A kindle is designed to be green, emulate text on a page, cut down on energy use and paper consumption. Does anyone else see the conflict here? If Amazon can create a tablet which accomplishes all of those directives, maybe we should give them a crack at the national deficit and while they're at it maybe they can patent a better tasting diet cola as well.