Slashdot Mirror
Bethesda's 'Scrolls' Lawsuit Going Ahead
New submitter person46 writes "Bethesda's lawsuit against Mojang, developers of Minecraft, is going to court. As you may recall, Bethesda is claiming copyright infringement over the title of Mojang's upcoming CCG/board game Scrolls. Bethesda claims that the name and game concept are too similar to their well-known RPG franchise The Elder Scrolls. '[C]ourt documents show that Bethesda lawyers plan to use comments on Scrolls articles and videos from around the web to show how people will confuse Scrolls with The Elder Scrolls. He also added that they've captured screenshots of Scrolls' trailer as a way of showing how Mojang has copied Bethesda because both Skyrim and Scrolls contain mountains.' Mojang founder Notch had offered to settle the dispute with a friendly game of Quake 3, but apparently Bethesda wasn't up for that."
Come now, we all know one game is not enough. You need at least a best of 3, minimum. 3 out of 5 is reasonable, but 5 out of 9 is where we get reasonable. If Notch were serious, he wouldn't have lowballed it!
"Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
The very topic of this pending lawsuit is a forbidden one on the bethesda game studios forums.
From my own expierences on that forum several years ago, I can pretty much assure you that it is enforced with gestapo like ferocity, at the behest of the legal and corporate drones, and the moderator staff is all too willing to enforce such censorship.
Long ago I swore off ever buying another bethesda softworks title as direct retail (I will only purchase second hand, to ensure that they never receive any of my money) and things like this only reinforce that opinion.
Yeah good point. The state of Maryland and the state of Israel should sue Bethesda for stealing that name. It can be confusing - do they mean Bethesda the town (CDP) or Bethesda the pool or Bethesda the purveyor of mediocre games that sell only because there's nothing better on the market at the time?
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
"Bethesda is claiming copyright infringement," no they're claiming trademark infringement. Big difference.
Bethesda's legal trolls are missing a major marketing opportunity here that would benefit both their organization and Mojang.
If they had accepted Notch's offer for a Quake match, then their marketing dept. could have spun it into a major event. See the example of Southwest Airlines vs. Stephens Aviation over the phrase "Just Plane Smart". The CEOs agreed to arm wrestle for it with the loser giving up their claim and donating $5000 to charity. The arm-wrestling event was publicized and tickets were sold, $15,000 was raised for charity, and both organizations benefited from positive media exposure.
Now Bethesda, regardless of outcome, is going to be viewed as a big douchebag beating up on a little guy.
The story claims that this is about copyright, and then links another slashdot story that doesn't mention copyright once.
Every story I can find about this says that it is a trademark dispute, not copyright.
Free unix account: freeshell.org
This is the turf you choose to defend, BethSoft? The word 'scrolls'?
You do realize that the whole 'elder scrolls' part of your fiction is ancillary at BEST, right? Virtually all of the written works are contained in proper books, and the idea of history scrolls as important is left to the occasional sidequest - it's mostly a holdover title.
You do realize that this whole fight is literally a big developer gunning down on a small independent developer making a freaking collectable card battle game variant?
Even if you win, you're just going to look like a complete jackass, in a field that depends on you looking like somewhat decent people when you're trying to sell fantasy worlds to gamers.
This is not the fight to have, not the opponent to defeat, and not a good way to spend your money or life.
Wake up, you're making a horrible mistake, and you can't win this kind of fight, a fight only you seem to want to have.
Ryan Fenton
Bethesda are required to provide the court with a comprehensive list of points of similarity, including minor ones. If they do not provide a point of similarity, it can be used against them as evidence that their claim is incomplete, that they concede certain elements of similarity do not infringe, or that their understanding of the property is incomplete. The Judge is expected to filter through this list and determine which elements are co-incidental and which contribute to possible infringement, as well as evaluating them for any potential damages, if it comes to that.
He offered them a settlement just as ridiculous as the lawsuit they proposed.
Mojang founder Notch had offered to settle the dispute with a friendly game of Quake 3, but apparently Bethesda wasn't up for that."
Yes, because he is an idiot.
Not at all. This is equal parts a legal battle and a PR battle.
Minecraft has a significant amount of credibility. It is a beloved name, and has a lot of goodwill.
And so do the Eldar Scrolls and Bethesda.
By making his claim, he was giving them an out to retain some face, and reinforced his persona of the gamer everydude gone successful.
By refusing it, Bethesda comes across as a soulless corporate entity.
But lets not forget the major problem with this whole mess. Bethesda is claiming the ownership of the concept of Scrolls in video games. This is something that has a laughable amount of prior history, and should be laughed out of court. SHOULD being the key words here.
Go ahead and search on http://tess2.uspto.gov/ for "scrolls"
With a filing date of May of this year, Mojang applied for a word mark on the word "Scrolls". Check the link, but this is just some of the claims they're making:
"Computer games; video games; computer software; computer and video games software; computer software downloaded or downloadable; computer software publications downloaded; interactive entertainment software; data recorded electronically from the Internet; data recorded in machine readable form from the Internet; discs, tapes, cartridges, CD-ROMs and other magnetic, electronic or optical media, all bearing computer games software or video games; electronic amusement apparatus for use with television receivers; electronic games apparatus; home video game machines"
Maybe a lawyer can come along and clarify if this is Bethesda being paranoid or if they're justified in feeling threatened.
...so which of the two is a remake of the 1984 Atari 8-bit game The Scrolls of Abadon? Darn confusing titles! Star Trek vs. Star Wars, Miami Vice vs. CSI Miami... there should be a law against that!
When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
Let me elaborate on what a Bethesda PR coup could have looked like. They could have had Notch agree to a Quake 3 battle, but admit the word 'scrolls' is part of their trademark. If his team won, the Notch has licensee rights for his game. If he wanted to use this name for other games/ sequels, then another tournament would be necessary, under the same terms. Then they could have turned this Quake 3 tournament into an internet PR extravaganza for both parties. The tournament itself could be webcast live on the net with all kinds of juicy marketing tie-ins for both parties. If Notch won, Bethesda looks humble and magnanimous, earning internet sweetheart status. And even if Bethesda won, they could have gave Notch permission to use the name anyways, with their conditions, in a gesture of good will -- same result. Now they'll be loathed as big corporate bullies. And they've gained nothing.
'... as a way of showing how Mojang has copied Bethesda because both Skyrim and Scrolls contain mountains.'
I think I might have a case against... just about every shooter out there!
The whole summary is a complete troll. Firstly, this is not about copyright but trademark infringement (as has been stated here already). Why do people get these concepts so confused. I am sure that some idiot here will mention patents too. (Oh look, it was me!)
And who was it that made this claim that it was about copying mountains? Why the business developer of the company who want to belittle the entire lawsuit! The quip about settling this with a Quake 3 game is another attempt to trivialise the dispute.
The thing is, this is a textbook trademark dispute. It doesn't matter that one side is a big company and the other a smaller one. If It had been Bethesda who made Elder Scrolls VI: Minecraft then everyone would be cheering Mojang when they defended their trademarks against the big bully company.
That's a bit different. Scrolls is just a generic word that's been around for centuries. Minecraft is a word that I wasn't aware of at all until Notch created it. If it was in use at all prior to the game being conceived of, it wasn't in common use at the time.
There absolutely is brand recognition. Everyone who's excited about Skyrim knows it's the sequel to Oblivion, and most of them know that Oblivion was the sequel to Morrowind. I could have told you I was excited to play TESV long before the actual title was announced.
If Notch was calling his game "Elder Scrolls" or something like that, the Bethesda would have a valid complaint. Of course, that's not what's going on, and they don't.
The law should say that the trademark holder must either defend the trademark *or* proactively grant license to use it when it looks like someone might be in violation. IANAL but it seems like the law binds your hands if you hold a trademark. Either you act like a douchebag or lose it.
In the spirit of Slashdot pedantry, I'll point out that the name Mincecraft was created by Paul Eres, who is not part of Mojang.
Your point hits near the mark though. The more descriptive the trademark, the more difficult it is to enforce. Minecraft is pretty descriptive but as a compound word made of words that normally wouldn't be sequenced as such a phrase, it's got a slight edge over Elder Scrolls. Scrolls by itself seems pretty weak when compared to either of the other brands.
+0 Meh
... the Eldar Scrolls and Bethesda ...
wow Bethesda infringes on Tolkien now?!?!?!?!?!??!
And those shameless pricks talk about an indie company stealing from them?
-- no sig today
ZeniMax was founded by the founders of Bethesda for this very reason. Wikipedia has a nice write up on it..
AOL Instant Messenger (aka AIM): 1997. GAIM (aka GTK+ AOL Instant Messenger): 1999. But a nice try.
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
Respect for Bethesda: gone. NOT paying for Skyrim.
I somehow think that sooner than later you would have found another "ethical" reason to get to the same conclusion.
Why can't
Scrolls != Elder Scrolls V : Skyrim,
Scrolls != Elder Scrolls VI : Oblivion,
Scrolls != Elder Scrolls III : Morrowind,
Scrolls != Elder Scrolls II : Daggerfall,
Scrolls != Elder Scrolls I : Arena.
There, solved the problem. The reason people trivialize this is because its a ridiculous argument coming from Bethesda. The name Scrolls vs. Elder Scrolls doesn't confuse anyone that doesn't have a severe mental deficiency.
That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
Except NOBODY ever calls any of the elder scrolls games "scrolls". You call them by their subtitle, "morrowind", "oblivion", and "skyrim". In fact, testing it out, most gamers on the street have no idea WHAT "the elder scrolls" is. They've NEVER HEARD OF IT. But you mention "oblivion" and they go "ooooh, THAT game".
The idea that Bethesda owns the trademark to the word "Scroll" because they have trademarked "The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim" is crazy. Thats like saying if my game is called "space marine adventure battle in star space with warfare and guns", then now you're not allowed to use ANY of those words in a game title. "starcraft" is infringing, they stole my stars! "Modern warfare" is infringing, they stole my warfare! Hell, there's a game just called "gun"!
When will the endless trademark infringement end?!?!
GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
There's also crimecraft, gemcraft, corpsecraft, aliencraft, bridgecraft, worldcraft....
And lets not forget "aircraft" which is in use pretty much all over the english language.
Here's a list! http://www.uvlist.net/search?fname=craft
GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-