Intel Drops MeeGo

Misleading title by Kristian+T. · 2011-09-28 01:00 · Score: 2

This sounds like a great thing, not at all like the title implies. Pooling the rescources into a project that has a greater chance of success, should prove a good thing for everyone who cares about MeeGo. There's enough of a lead for the competetion as it is, even without dividing the OS community into different factions.

--
Run with the lemmings, and you'll get your feet wet.

Re:Misleading title by anomaly256 · 2011-09-28 01:29 · Score: 1

Except it's happened so often now with this 'family' of distributions, each time effectively killing the project it was merged with, and always either just before or just after a single tangible product is actually released and before it has a chance to succeed. It's like duke nukem forever, except the game title changes every month and a new publisher/developer replaces an old one in an attempt to breathe life into the deadend sinkhole of a project. This 'intel mobile linux distribution' thing is a plague ensuring certain death :(
Re:Misleading title by hairyfeet · 2011-09-28 01:58 · Score: 2

I'm sure I'll get hate for pointing this out, but maybe all these projects are dying because they are pointless? Apple rules the tablet, MSFT the desktop, and the phone is split between Apple and Google. So where is the market they were going to capture? Geeks that actually even know what 'free as in freedom' means much less cares about it are probably in the 0.03% range, so no real growth there. Hell the rest of the planet happily sends their data freely to Google and their money to Apple and MSFT so i can't suddenly see them going "Hey wait a tick!" and demanding the four freedoms.
So there just wasn't any real place for them to go is all. even the laptop and netbook OEMs where profits are razor thin don't really need it as MSFT sells dirt cheap Win 7 licenses to that segment and for instant on they have Splashtop AKA ExpressGate. So in an already overcrowded arena Intel looked at the writing on the wall and saw they were just wasting good money on a dead end. it certainly wasn't gonna sell more Intel CPU or "challenge the Wintel monopoly" as so many articles hinted when it first was being discussed.

--
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Re:Misleading title by inglorion_on_the_net · 2011-09-28 02:26 · Score: 3, Interesting

I'm sure I'll get hate for pointing this out, but maybe all these projects are dying because they are pointless? Apple rules the tablet, MSFT the desktop, and the phone is split between Apple and Google. So where is the market they were going to capture?
Of course, if everybody thought like that, Apple would never have gone on to rule the tablet, nor MSFT the desktop, and neither Apple nor Google would be in the phone market. All of these segments were dominated by other vendors before.
So, far from being pointless, projects like Maemo are very interesting, because they have the potential to bring something new (and, in this case, more standard and open) to the scene. That's why it is so sad they have been going nowhere, and that is why we have this story on Slashdot. If it wasn't for that, Meego would just be another unpopular project that nobody cared about. It is interesting because, at least in theory, it could break the grasp of the major vendors.

--
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Re:Misleading title by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · 2011-09-28 03:03 · Score: 3, Insightful

It isn't a good thing. I don't know what moblin was like, but Mameo was pretty much a fully complete, working operating system that shipped on actual devices the merger with Moblin set them back a couple years. Nokia would have been better off to decline the invitation to merge with Moblin.

--
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Re:Misleading title by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-28 03:05 · Score: 1

Meego was a Qt-based Linux distribution. The main point was running native apps on it, taking advantage of the fact that Meego, Symbian and S40 all run Qt (you can target Meego just by recompiling the software you wrote for the millions of Symbian^3 and S40 devices out there. It would have a gigantic number of apps right from the start, and very clear Linux roots.
This Tizen thing is a browser. Just HTML5 apps. In other words, apps that every other platform can run; no exclusive apps. No incentive to develop only for it, too: it has a small market. They're talking about how any API that isn't exposed by the browser can change at any time. Why would you want to program for THAT?
It's much like Android, really. Android is a custom OS + Java VM sitting on top of a Linux kernel. You could change the kernel to Win32 and NOTHING would change, you'd just make it 100% proprietary instead of 99% proprietary. Tizen is a custom OS + browser on top of a Linux kernel. Meego was a full Debian/Fedora-based GNU OS on top of the Linux kernel.
This is NOT a great thing. They're throwing away all the hard work we've had on Meego. They're throwing away the best mobile API ever. They're even throwing away all the work done on LiMo to start something totally new, again. There is no point at all in doing this.
<troll>Also, Nokia hardware beats Samsung hardware, hands down, at any time.</troll>
Re:Misleading title by the+linux+geek · 2011-09-28 03:56 · Score: 1

The phone and tablet markets are rapidly expanding, and there's room for new systems in those spaces.
Re:Misleading title by Jello+B. · 2011-09-28 04:16 · Score: 1

99% proprietary.
What exactly is your definition of "proprietary"? Android is free software as far as I can tell.
Re:Misleading title by yacc143 · 2011-09-28 05:36 · Score: 2

Well, and the difference is that producing hardware is not exactly cheap. So we've got the N900 running Maemo5 which is rather strongly different from earlier releases on the N8xx devices. Then we were told, after the N900 was received nicely (as a mobile, not a tablet), from Nokia that they'll merge Maemo into Meego.
At the same time, the whole distribution was changing over from Gtk to Qt, because Nokia wanted one toolkit that works on all it's platforms. Than Nokia decided to get paid for committing suicide (well, the "new" Nokia will almost certainly loose market share even faster in it's strong points, while it's completely unclear how well Windows Phone will work out. Especially as many long time of older MS mobile offerings do not associate good things with the name), and as we were told, the Intel guys responsible for MeeGo, read about this in their newspapers. Now Intel does a similar move, it drops MeeGo and merges it yet again.
There are also some interesting data points:
- the N900 was a fully end user (non-hacker) compatible phone, better than all other offerings (Symbian^3) from Nokia.
- the N900 turned into this cool ARM based Linux supermini laptop only when one enabled the devel repositories.
- Maemo, having existed for some time (the version number is 5), does have a functional open source community.
- The community crowd is already much smaller with MeeGo, and we'll see how many Tizen guys will be left over.
- Changing the rules of the game has a tradition for Nokia (basically compatibility between different releases of Symbian have been at best source-level), but the game overall has changed, Nokia is not top of the field anymore, so developers won't take abuse as easily as they have in the past. So Nokia sold their developer community on Qt, and a multiplatform strategy (which is as such not a bad thing, considering all the nice things Nokia has done in the past). Then, overnight, "Windows Phone is our future. No Qt on Windows Phone, sorry, our "partner" MS takes our and through us your concerns seriously. Btw, just keep developing Qt, will be still supported on Symbian, at least till we stop the production of that junk" => guess that makes for good relations with developers.
Re:Misleading title by yacc143 · 2011-09-28 05:37 · Score: 1

Not really, my N900 is almost as much in Nokia service than with me.
Re:Misleading title by anomaly256 · 2011-09-28 08:43 · Score: 1

So in an already overcrowded arena Intel looked at the writing on the wall and saw they were just wasting good money on a dead end.
But that's the thing, they haven't seen the writing on the wall and are persisting to try it. The people they partnered with saw it and fleed but Intel continue to flog the dead horse, hence this new-but-old project now
Re:Misleading title by makomk · 2011-09-28 10:32 · Score: 1

Yep. On the other hand, the LiMo Foundation's entire purpose was to develop a closed source platform for mobile phones based on top of Linux. They tried to obtain the cost savings associated with open source by adopting open source-style development practices and using a license that granted access to the source code to members of the group, but with a restriction preventing their members from sharing the LiMo source code with anyone outside of the foundation. (IIRC members weren't even allowed to share source code they'd written themselves for LiMo without permission from all the other members.)
Re:Misleading title by hairyfeet · 2011-09-28 10:43 · Score: 1

We have this story on /. because its FOSS. Be honest if a developer let a big we juicy fart and wrote an article called "FOSS causes the winds" it would be front page here, as there are so many FOSSies as i call them.
Nothing against FOSS, I personally use it on Windows all the time, but the kind of FOSSies we get here are the kind that will argue up and down, totally seriously mind you, that making things easier for the users is "dumbed down" and that all should be forced to use CLI because doing things the hard way makes you smarter. of course they usually STFU when I ask if they are loading their kernel onto a PDP11 with punch cards then, because pretty much everything from high level languages to OSes have been designed to make things easier.
And the difference between Meego and what you described is each one brought something new to the table whereas Meego is just another Android/iOS ripoff cell OS from the shots I've seen. MSFT? Brought an OS to the masses, first by buying and improving DOS and offering it to all, instead of being locked to hardware like everyone else, followed by bringing the GUI to the masses because most couldn't afford Macs, Apple brought design to the forefront by focusing on user interaction instead of menus all the way down like MSFT and everyone else had done, and Google is frankly burning through a billion a quarter with Android so while its a hit I frankly don't know if that should count or if they should be busted for product dumping. After all if MSFT tried that or Apple they'd be brought up on Antitrust.
But what did Meege bring? Linux based OS? Ubuntu netbook and Linux ARM variants got that covered. Fast start? My EEE with Expressgate goes 6 seconds from button push to web. Design? Apple has that covered with the entire thing design around how users interact with the device.
So I'm sorry but I just don't see it. I'd wish them well but i personally think its gonna be another one of those abandoned projects like the corpses littering SourceForge. The bitch is I could give you THE killer feature for PCs and laptops and have been arguing with the Comodo team to push it instead of letting it wither...Time Machine, not the apple one but the Comodo one. you build THAT into your OS, where it doesn't matter what the user does, no matter how bad they fuck shit up, they can just push the home key after BIOS and be back up in 20 minutes or less? Now THAT is a killer app. System Restore frankly ain't got shit on TM my friend, its so easy your granny could work it.
Google had a similar idea with Chrome but the OEMs screwed the pooch with chrome OS by making the machines cost more than full featured laptops. Who the fuck is gonna pay $500 for an underpowered Atom netbook that won't work without net access? And ALL Linux machines have one flaw nobody seems to be willing to admit...if anything goes wrong? You are fucked. There is NO last known good config or even roll back drivers button. but make it so they can update and upgrade and do whatever without ever having to worry, because a single button push and it'll go back to like it was before with ZERO risks of losing data? Now THAT could make a difference. too bad the only one I've seen pull it off is Comodo and they look like they are abandoning it when Win 8 rolls out. oh well at least I have the last version on a thumbdrive. damned handy for normal folks to never have to worry about screwing anything up.

--
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Re:Misleading title by jrumney · 2011-09-28 12:30 · Score: 1

This sounds like a great thing, not at all like the title implies.
My prediction - in early 2014, Samsung will announce that they are stopping their Tizen efforts to concentrate on Android. Later in 2014, they will finally release their one and only (ARM based) Tizen device, and Intel will announce a new partnership with HTC to develop a new Linux based phone OS so that Intel CPUs can take over the smartphone market (having lost most of the desktop market to ARM by this point), with first release in early 2015 and devices expected to hit the market by mid 2015. And what a great thing that will be.
Re:Misleading title by RobbieThe1st · 2011-09-28 13:10 · Score: 1

Sadly, I agree with you to some extent. Maemo, I like. It brought major power to a hand-held device, had a full Linux stack, could run chroots of other OS's, and allowed custom kernels etc.
It also has a *great* multitasking ability, though, obviously, leaving things running eats battery life.
MeeGo... As far as I can tell, it has none of the benefits of Maemo, and with a lot of drawbacks including being locked down with digital signatures.
Also, as far as a rollback button? Two points:
1, I did something similar for the N900. Nice OS images that could restore the machine(and all data) to the exact config you had when you made the image. People *love* it.
2, isn't that what ChromeOS has?
Re:Misleading title by hairyfeet · 2011-09-28 18:05 · Score: 1

Cool what you did with the N900, and while I haven't seen Maemo i'll take your word for it, with so many fans it had to have something going. but the Meego? Bad iOS/Droid ripoff from what I saw. Frankly if they released it would be a touchpad sized bomb and certainly wouldn't be selling more Intel chips or challenging Wintel.
As for Chrome OS? Not even close. Imagine a machine that takes a snapshot, quickly and cleanly, every time you boot. you can install what you want, do what you want, screw something up? One button push and you can go back to yesterday. All your stuff is where its supposed to be, it is as simple as 1.-Push Home key,2.-Pick time you want to go back to, 3.;-Hit go. 4...there is no step 4, that's it.
Let me put it THIS way: My ex GF had to move nearly 5 hours away after her dad had a heart attack. She forgot to log off and her niece took a dump on WinXP, I mean she royally fucked it going to flash game sites. it wouldn't even boot, it would start to load the desktop and lock hard. it took me les than 15 minutes to have her back up and running by phone, and she knows NOTHING about PCs. All her programs, games, pics, all were perfect, all were where they were supposed to be, it is fucking brilliant I tell you, why they aren't pushing the shit out of it I have NO idea. Hell I'd pay $30 a pop for it, it is THAT good.
But at least I got the last version (and BTW if you have any relatives on windows you have to support? GET IT. It is absolutely free and will make your support as easy as the above steps) and it works on everything from XP-7, 32 and 64 bit. the only catch is it don't like dual boots with XP and 7. It don't hurt anything, it just won't run because of the way Win 7 changes drive letters around if it is placed on anything but the C: drive. But its brilliant and to me its THE killer app for home users.

--
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Re:Misleading title by justforgetme · 2011-09-28 20:12 · Score: 1

this reminds me of the standards
Only that instead of standards it's linux type OSs comunities that get populated and perpetuated.
<drivel><halfbaked>
This is sad, very very sad...
Can we at least now acknowledge that the FOSS community has to build the OS top down on their own so that we actually get a product? I mean there is Actually arch for arm devices.
Just convince some desktop devs to throw together a basic tablet/touch UI from spare code left and right (lets call it gnome 3.3)
And then just start writing rom flashers so that it can be hacked onto all existing Android phones.
</halfbaked></drivel>

--
-- no sig today
Re:Misleading title by drinkypoo · 2011-09-29 01:59 · Score: 1

Moblin was a sad joke that never worked well in ANY incarnation, and it was no loss to see it go. I played with several versions and all gave me free reboots and lots of explosions in the UI. When you add to that the fact that most of what Intel did was rip out support for competing processors, it's hard to see why anyone ever got excited about Moblin.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Imaginary scenario by Rik+Sweeney · 2011-09-28 01:00 · Score: 4, Funny

Board members: MeeGo, we need to talk
MeeGo: MeeGo is listening?
Board members: It's not working out, we're going to have to let you go
MeeGo: We go?
Board members: No, just you
MeeGo: Me go?
Board members: Yes, MeeGo, you go
MeeGo: MeeGo go?
Board members: (sigh) Just get out

--
Summation 2

Re:Imaginary scenario by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-28 01:04 · Score: 1

I like it!!! Meego... May be if they had named it iStay?? then it would have been here forever?

Mego is dead, Webos is dead ... by Chrisq · 2011-09-28 01:00 · Score: 3, Funny

Meego is dead, Webos is dead ...and I don't feel very well.

Re:Mego is dead, Webos is dead ... by Pieroxy · 2011-09-28 01:07 · Score: 1

It would look as it a mobile OS is only reachable by big megacorps (iOS, Android, Windows). Community based devlopment will never work here as every company has their own agenda to push and want it now. This is a recipe for disaster.

--
Write boring code, not shiny code!
Re:Mego is dead, Webos is dead ... by gmuslera · 2011-09-28 01:17 · Score: 1

I don't see Meego as dead or failed (neither Moblin or Maemo) as dead or failing, but evolving, as experiments that needed a bit of extra thinking and making new iterations with the learned experience.
Re:Mego is dead, Webos is dead ... by TheRaven64 · 2011-09-28 01:20 · Score: 1

WebOS isn't dead, it's just on life support. HP still wants to use it in printers and other devices, they're just getting out of the phone and tablet markets. They're also trying to license it. I'd love to see HTC or someone license WebOS - HP was kind enough to send me a TouchPad, and it's a really beautifully designed system.

--
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Re:Mego is dead, Webos is dead ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-28 01:20 · Score: 2, Funny

Yea, there's just no room in this world for a small, scrappy underdog like Intel.....
Re:Mego is dead, Webos is dead ... by 21mhz · 2011-09-28 01:50 · Score: 2

Meanwhile the rest of the world uses something else on actual, shipped devices.

--
My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
Re:Mego is dead, Webos is dead ... by binarylarry · 2011-09-28 02:08 · Score: 1

haha, windows?
Windows Phone has the same level of success as Meego, except they've spent billions pushing it.

--
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
Re:Mego is dead, Webos is dead ... by jx100 · 2011-09-28 02:47 · Score: 2

Like the awesome Maemo I have on my n900?
Re:Mego is dead, Webos is dead ... by jrumney · 2011-09-28 03:05 · Score: 1

Community based development? Meego was Intel and Nokia. Tizen is Intel and Samsung. At least they picked a partner whose market share is increasing this time, though if Samsung abandons Android for Tizen, their fortunes may change rather abruptly.
Re:Mego is dead, Webos is dead ... by Yunzil · 2011-09-28 04:57 · Score: 1

No, you can actually buy a Windows Phone. And they work pretty well.
Re:Mego is dead, Webos is dead ... by 21mhz · 2011-09-28 05:00 · Score: 4, Funny

Like the awesome Maemo I have on my n900?
That was abandoned for a new platform, which has just been abandoned for a new platform.

--
My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
Re:Mego is dead, Webos is dead ... by Tomato42 · 2011-09-28 06:22 · Score: 1

It still works quite well, thankyouverymuch
Re:Mego is dead, Webos is dead ... by gmuslera · 2011-09-28 06:27 · Score: 1

The nice thing about platforms not tied to particular hardware is that can be installed in other (older or newer) devices. I can install meego in my N900, and probably will be able to install Tizen on it. And wouldnt be so surprised if Tizen can be installed in current netbooks/tablets bundled with Meego, or android devices could be rooted to install it too.
Re:Mego is dead, Webos is dead ... by LucidBeast · 2011-09-28 07:36 · Score: 1

Well to get your nerd credentials renewed you need to buy N9, it has MeeGo/Harmattan. Of course it works better than Windows. After all it is powered by *drum roll* LINUX!!! (is there anything it can't do?)
Re:Mego is dead, Webos is dead ... by UpnAtom · 2011-09-28 08:26 · Score: 1

I've been seriously thinking about getting a N900 2nd hand as it's easily the best thing out there with a keyboard.
Intel dropping support makes me worry about its longevity but I guess the N900 wouldn't last > 2 years anyway. Maybe the prices will fall to the point where it's worthwhile either way.
Re:Mego is dead, Webos is dead ... by Technomancer · 2011-09-28 08:46 · Score: 1

N900 is a great device but it has no AT&T 3G frequencies and no proper Exchange support (provisioning, certificate authentication) and the arrogant attitude of the Nokia devs that worked on Exchange support.
The othe problem it has is the fact that Nokia usually puts about half of the memory the system needs on all N devices.
64MB on N770 was a joke, then 128MB on N800/810 was barely to keep the OS so the browser blows up on any bigger web page. Then they put 256MB in N900 which is still way too little. Their solution of putting swap in flash memory is really weird too. And N900 shipped with 600MHz CPU when everyone else's flagship devices were shipping with 1GHz.
Re:Mego is dead, Webos is dead ... by jx100 · 2011-09-28 15:39 · Score: 1

I'll admit the N900's hardware is woefully underpowered, and that's actually why I was hoping so very much for *some* sort of update; even the minor one of the n9/n950 would be appreciated.
In spite of that, I *vastly* prefer it over the Epic 4G that I currently use as my main phone, mainly because it's real Linux (and all the usual, wonderful tools that includes) instead of java-ish half-breed that barely counts as linux.

good and bad by drinkypoo · 2011-09-28 01:01 · Score: 3, Insightful

Bad news, intel drops it.

Good news, Linux Foundation is in charge. Some of you may not have followed along since the beginning, but Moblin begat Meego, and what was Moblin? Intel put a Clutter-based UI on Linux after stripping its ability to run on anything not based on a recent Intel CPU. Whoop. De. Doo. None of what Intel did to Linux with Moblin has any repercussions for anyone not using an x86-compatible Intel processor. While that does still seem to cover the majority of the market, it's still not an interesting basis for a Linux distribution; rather, it is a collection of features which by now have made it into the mainline.

So the bad news is that Intel has given up on the notion that x86 is ready for phones, but that's good news too. And meanwhile, Intel can go back to doing what they do best, trying to trip AMD up so that they don't have to compete on a level playing field. Since anyone can contribute to Linux, they were never going to differentiate themselves from AMD there.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Re:good and bad by pablodiazgutierrez · 2011-09-28 04:00 · Score: 1

I'm not sure I buy that "Intel has given up on the notion that x86 is ready for phones", given that they recently showcased an x86-Android tablet. It's just a different strategy. In my opinion, they should have done this in February, when Nokia stabbed them in the back.

--

To do list for Windows
Re:good and bad by fatphil · 2011-09-28 05:45 · Score: 2

From my perspective in north-eastern Europe, I think the situation's better described as an MS trojan horse stabbing Nokia in the face such that they fell over and headbutted Intel.

But the Nokia/Intel thing was never going to last anyway. That was Nokia giving their new boyfriend, Intel, a blowjob, and sending the camphone photos to their ex, TI.

--
Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
Re:good and bad by mickwd · 2011-09-28 05:58 · Score: 1

How the hell have the relevant companies managed to screw up producing a Linux-based mobile phone OS/interface so badly?
Smartphones these days are close to general-purpose computers (albeit with mobile telephony hardware), but these companies have spent tens if not hundreds of man-years trying and failing to do little more than port an already-written OS to a new hardware platform and add a few simple apps (phone dialer/receiver, contact database, appointments/reminder app, and port a browser and media player).
Why is it so difficult?
Hell, RockBox is more impressive (OK, it's not for phones, but it IS for mobile audio hardware), and:
a) They had to write their own OS;
b) They're all part-time volunteers;
c) RockBox probably runs on a greater selection of hardware than all of the non-Android Linux mobile phone efforts.
The main challenges I can see with developing an OS+interface for a phone are the small form-factor and the power usage. So this latest attempt is going to run as much as possible in HTML5 in a browser on top of the actual OS, with all the extra CPU power and power-sapping mobile network comms that that implies.
Un-bloody-believable.
Re:good and bad by Tapewolf · 2011-09-28 07:10 · Score: 2

How the hell have the relevant companies managed to screw up producing a Linux-based mobile phone OS/interface so badly?
Easy. Every time they got it working, they started again from scratch.
Re:good and bad by pablodiazgutierrez · 2011-09-28 08:46 · Score: 1

I like your analogies. But I honestly think MS have the best intentions (of profiting) with the deal. It's just that Nokia should have played their cards better.

--

To do list for Windows
Re:good and bad by bjourne · 2011-09-28 09:25 · Score: 1

The reason is C. The free software world is stuck with writing stuff in C, which is a low-level language not at all suitable to writing a complicated system that a smartphone needs. Both Java and Objective C, that iOS uses, brings huge productivity boosts over writing stuff in C which is why those platforms have been able to evolve so rapidly.

--
Football Odds
Re:good and bad by mAriuZ · 2011-09-28 09:37 · Score: 1

why don't they use http://www.emdebian.org/ instead of reinventing again and again yet another distro

--
developer http://flamerobin.org
Re:good and bad by drinkypoo · 2011-09-28 12:47 · Score: 1

Tablets next to phones, or which contain a phone radio yet do not function as phones, are still viable contexts for x86. However, Intel still has yet to show a CPU+Chipset with a viable TDP for anything that fits in your pocket and lasts all day.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:good and bad by RR · 2011-09-28 13:34 · Score: 1

How the hell have the relevant companies managed to screw up producing a Linux-based mobile phone OS/interface so badly?
I've highlighted the relevant word for you. It's because these are companies with bureaucratic processes and hidden agendas. In these alliances, they cooperate on low-level stuff but try to preserve some sort of "secret sauce," to the detriment of the whole, and that's when they're working properly. Very few companies have the successful dictator like Steve Jobs of Apple.

--
Have a nice time.
Re:good and bad by drinkypoo · 2011-09-29 06:25 · Score: 1

The Linux Foundation is a puppet for the companies that fund them.
Yeah, that's how it works. But it has done a decent thing or two.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Android-alike by Tapewolf · 2011-09-28 01:01 · Score: 1

Reading the announcement of Tizen, it looks like another Android, a linux backend with an interpreted front-end. It mentions HTML5 as the primary API, how well that will work remains to be seen. It mentions an NDK, but frankly, I was hoping for a replacement for the N900 OS, i.e. something that would run unmodified Linux applications - and this doesn't look like it.

That and the idea of developers having to target yet another incompatible platform alongside IOS, Android, RIM and that other one doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

Re:Android-alike by roger_pasky · 2011-09-28 01:50 · Score: 1

The only chance to succeed is to offer the same front-end APIs/runtime/libs to work (adapted) on true Linux OS. You probably won't have full acceess to Posix, neither a hi-res screen in Tizen, but its native apps should run bigger and faster in a desktop just recompiling (or even better without recompiling). Develop once, run it everywhere. That's the only missing offer in the smartphone/tablet ecosystem nowadays (I'm skeptic about W8 promises).
Re:Android-alike by Tapewolf · 2011-09-28 02:09 · Score: 1

The only chance to succeed is to offer the same front-end APIs/runtime/libs to work (adapted) on true Linux OS. You probably won't have full acceess to Posix, neither a hi-res screen in Tizen, but its native apps should run bigger and faster in a desktop just recompiling (or even better without recompiling).
Worst case, the NDK is probably "The Best Of POSIX", like the Android one. That alone would be useful, since you could reuse any Android NDK stuff, but what I really wanted out of Meego was something that can run SSH, Gimp and Pidgin on a tablet or ARM laptop.
Re:Android-alike by berashith · 2011-09-28 02:14 · Score: 2

I really wanted the n900, and would have bought one except that I had purchased the n770 several years earlier. The n770 was a great little tablet, very cool, out to market way ahead of the iPhone with all of the features except the phone. When Nokia upgraded to the n800, the n770 lost all support from maemo. The new OS couldnt back port, all apps were being supported on the new OS, so my cool little device just sat there with no community and no support. I was very wary of the n900 for this, and waited to see what would happen. When I was about to buy one, the MeeGo announcement came through, and it was obvious that history was going to repeat. Nokia had no clue how to handle this, and the legacy is being handed down throughout all of the descendants.
Re:Android-alike by Svartalf · 2011-09-28 03:06 · Score: 1

That was less due to the OS and more due to the device itself. It couldn't hold the OS that they arrived at with the version for the N8x0 series. Blame Nokia for cheapening the N770 too much (there were design "oopses" within the N770 that led me to wait until the N800 came out...) there.

--
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Re:Android-alike by berashith · 2011-09-28 03:41 · Score: 1

that doesnt mean that they should have just removed all support, effort and updates immediately. They basically forced all customers to upgrade hardware to continue to have application support. This was a consistent behavior from Nokia. I wont believe that anything with roots in these projects will ever stop the cycle until I actually see it happen.
I think this is close to accurate... all coming from memory.
The 800 replaced the 770. The 880 was a minor upgrade that I dont think required full hardware upgrade to run the new stuff. The 900 replaced the 880 and ended its support. MeeGo killed off maemo which made the 900 look less likely to remain interesting. I dont even pay attention to the N9... Now MeeGo is getting dropped before it ever saw usefulness.
Re:Android-alike by Dr.Dubious+DDQ · 2011-09-28 03:43 · Score: 2

"a linux backend with an interpreted front-end. It mentions HTML5 as the primary API"
I haven't looked at the announcement itself yet, but that right there makes it sound like WebOS, or "PhoneGap, The Operating System"...and I'm okay with that.
If they can manage to get devices out and price them substantially lower than the premium iPod Mega (or 'iPad' if you prefer) or Xoom sorts of gadgets I'd love to have something like that.

--
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
Re:Android-alike by fatphil · 2011-09-28 05:48 · Score: 1

> MeeGo killed off maemo which made the 900 look less likely to remain interesting.

Au contraire - everything I witnessed pointed to people buying every n900 they could get their hands on. The hobbyists were clearly interested.

--
Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
Re:Android-alike by jonwil · 2011-09-28 15:03 · Score: 1

I bought an N900 precisely because it was OPEN and didnt try to
stop me from running what I want to.
My N900 does not support Cell Broadcast SMS. However, the support is there in the cellular modem and telephony stack.
Thanks to a small binary patch to the SMS library and a (yet to be written) GUI app its possible to add Cell Broadcast SMS to this phone. Try doing that on an iPhone without months of reverse engineering of every piece of the telephony stack. And then find a way to release it without being sued by Apple.
I already have a proof of concept program that logs incoming cell broadcast messages to a file and have used it several times to log cell broadcast messages from towers in my local area, I just need to learn how to write UI apps in GTK and figure out how to parse (and what to do with) Cell Broadcast messages other than the "cell tower name" message.

Re:Android is next... by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · 2011-09-28 01:03 · Score: 2

Oh man... Android is FAR from unprofitable for Google. Sure, the OS itself doesn't generate any revenue, but it's a platform Google has control over (that alone is invaluable) and with which they can push their shit your way (more $ there).

Android is the proverbial cheap razor that allows Google to sell blades.

--
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash

Interesting move. by Bill_the_Engineer · 2011-09-28 01:03 · Score: 4, Interesting

I can't help but notice that Samsung is a partner. Could this be the OS we kept hearing rumors about? You know the one where Samsung is nervous about Google's purchase of Motorola and needs to hedge its bets by having their own OS.

I would love to see Meego/Tizen continue to exist. I'm glad Samsung is stepping up to replace Nokia that went to Microsoft.

--
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...

Re:Interesting move. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-28 08:43 · Score: 1

Samsung already has their own OS Bada. It is deployed on actual devices in Europe. Samsung says they will keep it for the lower end phones, but there is nothing stopping them from evolving it further. I don't really understand their interest in Tizen?

Intel renames AppUp Store! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-28 01:05 · Score: 5, Funny

New name is TitzUp!

wow! by sgt+scrub · 2011-09-28 01:18 · Score: 1

That is WAC! Does this mean JIL is into BONDI?!? OMFG!

--
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.

Re:Android is next... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-28 01:25 · Score: 1

Just like Java were for Sun, which did not end up well.

.deb and Qt, please by Alex+Belits · 2011-09-28 01:29 · Score: 5, Interesting

Now if only they will bring back Maemo's Debian-based package management and properly maintained Qt support to their native applications, and it will be back to the direction where Maemo was supposed to be heading before Nokia fucked up.

Making it possible to merge at least some things that are now maintained in Maemo Community SSU (last updated September 7 2011 if anyone did not notice), would be nice, too, however there certainly will be incompatibility with that.

--
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.

Re:.deb and Qt, please by fatphil · 2011-09-28 05:53 · Score: 1

Nokia's n9 is .deb based, and Qt. Don't be fooled by the "MeeGo" label that I notice is suspiciously absent from Nokia's press release today.

However, be warned, even though it's based on .debs, the dpkg isn't quite the one you're used to...

--
Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863

Boot2Gecko by kangsterizer · 2011-09-28 01:34 · Score: 1

So we've actually 2 open source and open development players in the field now, although both are yet-to-be-released.
Both use HTML5 as backend for everything.

Let's see how it works out :P

No repercussions? by Sits · 2011-09-28 01:41 · Score: 3, Informative

I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say "None of what Intel did to Linux with Moblin has any repercussions for anyone not using an x86-compatible Intel processor." For now I will interpret that as "they did nothing of interest for machines with CPUs from AMD/ARM etc.

Arjan van de van's work on asynchronous initialization of kernel subsystems means you will spend less time waiting for the kernel to finishon all sorts of CPUs - not just x86s. Powertop works on CPUs other than Intel's and has been used to help monitor power consumption of various program running on Linux.

Surely the fact that much of this work has gone upstream/mainline is a positive thing rather than a negative one? It's hard to tell which way you view this from your comment...

Re:No repercussions? by drinkypoo · 2011-09-28 03:37 · Score: 2

None of that was related to moblin except retroactively. The improved boot time was demonstrated with both moblin and fedora and powertop was its own thing.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Re:Android is next... by pscottdv · 2011-09-28 01:47 · Score: 4, Informative

Every time you touch that search button on your Android phone it makes Google very happy. Sun had no similar way to derive value directly from Java

--

this signature has been removed due to a DMCA takedown notice

Re:Android is next... by Kjella · 2011-09-28 01:49 · Score: 1

Just like Java were for Sun, which did not end up well.

Java was never a platform except for some horribly failed "Java Desktop System", it's a programming language. Microsoft makes .NET to sell Windows. Apple makes iOS to sell iDevices, Google makes Android to push Google services, Sun made Java to do what exactly? I never figured it out, they never seemed to get any real kickback from people using Java. No hardware sales, no software sales, no licensing fees, no split of any profits of anything built using Java that I can tell. Don't get me wrong, it was nice and all but I don't see the business model. It's not without reason they were bought up by Oracle.

--
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings

Bad news by TumuTanzi · 2011-09-28 01:54 · Score: 1

I had a big hope for MeeGo, but now it is a bad news to know Intel drop this stuff.

--
You are welcomed to my blog: http://tumutanzi.com/

Re:They sure make it _sound_ lame by GPLHost-Thomas · 2011-09-28 01:56 · Score: 1

I really agree with that above. When reading: "The Tizen application programming interfaces are based on HTML5 and other web standards, and we anticipate that the vast majority of Tizen application development will be based on these emerging standards.", just one word pops to my mind: what a tragedy...

What made maemo a so nice platform? Simple: it's support for Qt, GTK, Python, PulseAudio, and other standards we already have in Linux. There was no need to write new application, just a bit of redesign of the UI was enough (and in some rare case, not even needed). Yes, Qt and GTK are crap, and nothing beats what we had on the TOS/GEM in the Atari computers, but that's still a way better than the HML5 or AWT which is even more crappy.

Hello guys! HTML is there for DISPLAYING WEB PAGES, it's not meant for PROGRAMMING A GUI, there's a big difference here. I'm really disappointed by the Linux Foundation that is really missing something here. Instead, they should have supported the effort in Debian to have the missing phone applications (needed to make actual phone calls and receive SMS), which is the only missing brick to get out of this mobile OS hell.

FAIL + FAIL = FAIL by Dynamoo · 2011-09-28 02:10 · Score: 1

MeeGo failed (because it was too late). LiMo failed (because no-one wanted it). It's hardly the best combination to make a new OS. Besides, there are too many mobile OSes out there. Remember webOS? Symbian? BlackBerry OS is sliding the same way and Windows is currently hovering near 0% too.

How exactly are Tizer.. I mean Tizen hoping to promote this? "It's a bit like Android but it's not Android"?

--
Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com

Re:FAIL + FAIL = FAIL by ptaff · 2011-09-28 02:36 · Score: 1

Netscape failed. Then we got Firefox out of that failing project.
Chrome could get a noticeable part of the market-share and mind-share when there was too many web browsers already (MSIE, Firefox-and-XUL-brothers, Safari-and-KHTML-brothers, Opera).
It's not impossible that Tizen finds a niche large enough to become the libre software platform we all want; Android future doesn't seem promising, freedom-wise.
Re:FAIL + FAIL = FAIL by drinkypoo · 2011-09-29 02:02 · Score: 1

There is already a Linux platform for small devices, it is called Angstrom, it is based on OpenEmbedded, and it runs on a bunch of ARM-based PDAs, on bog-standard PCs, and lots of other devices besides. If half of the work that went into Moblin, MeeGo, and all this other nonsense had gone into Angstrom, we could all be using it now.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Prescient Name by coinreturn · 2011-09-28 02:13 · Score: 1

Meego bye-bye. Me go!

Qt-based development by Cycon · 2011-09-28 02:23 · Score: 1

What options does this leave for Qt-based development on embedded platforms?

Maemo on the N900 felt like the right direction with Nokia backing Qt, especially with projects like PySide created soley to offer a LGPL-licensed Python wrapper available to commercial developers (as opposed to PyQt). This permitted a single codebase to target desktop and mobile/tablet environments using a pleasant and completely open toolchain. MeeGo was set to carry on with Qt/X11.

But according to MeeGo's updated website, "We believe the future belongs to HTML5-based applications, outside of a relatively small percentage of apps, and we are firmly convinced that our investment needs to shift toward HTML5."

--
Your Brain + EEG + LEGO Robots = Brainstorms

Re:Qt-based development by Nyrath+the+nearly+wi · 2011-09-28 04:43 · Score: 2

From MeeGo merges with LiMo to form Tizen
What role for Qt?
The future of Qt in relation to Tizen is uncertain. It was not mentioned in any of today’s press releases. The Tizen website does make reference to a native development, but does not provide any further details. Instead HTML 5 is promoted as the development environment of choice and in an elastic piece of thinking is given as the reason for the need to evolve MeeGo.
However, Qt is a key component in many MeeGo related projects (e.g. part of the reference design for the GENIVI alliance for IVI devices) and, as noted above, Intel have indicated that there will be backwards compatibility with existing MeeGo netbook applications.
It seems likely that politics has a role to play here. Qt came into the MeeGo project from Nokia. Despite recent moves towards open governance, is still very much associated with Nokia. Intel were unhappy that Nokia switched to Windows Phone and the member of LiMo (including Samsung) may prefer to avoid mentioning or relying on what is perceived to be a competitor's asset.
In our opinion the likely scenario is that Qt will continue to play a major role in Tizen projects, but it will not be promoted as part of the core primary developer environment. Qt may be included as part of the default offering or it may be left to integrators to provide a version of Tizen with Qt. A possible example of how this might work in practise comes from Nomovok, who today released a press statement indicating that they would provide a version of Tizen integrated with Qt as part of their Steelrat system.
Re:Qt-based development by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-28 08:55 · Score: 1

That's too bad. Qt was one thing that made MeeGo attractive. Whereas yet-another-HTML5-app-platform? (given that you can already do this on all existing ones)
Oh, and good luck competing with Win8 on tablets and netbooks.
Re:Qt-based development by RR · 2011-09-28 15:24 · Score: 1

It seems likely that politics has a role to play here. Qt came into the MeeGo project from Nokia. Despite recent moves towards open governance, is still very much associated with Nokia. Intel were unhappy that Nokia switched to Windows Phone and the member of LiMo (including Samsung) may prefer to avoid mentioning or relying on what is perceived to be a competitor's asset.
Not just that. Samsung has been sponsoring Enlightenment, and they may see it as being better for low-powered devices than Qt.

--
Have a nice time.

No details yet by bill_mcgonigle · 2011-09-28 02:30 · Score: 1

The tizen.org site says:

The Tizen developer website will be available soon providing more details, resources, guidelines, tools, and tutorials, along with developer tools.

The rest of it reads like a draft outline of a requirements spec. I was just curious to find out if this will still be a downstream of Fedora, but not even that is on there.

So, yay, some people are getting together to work on a joint OS. I suggest they get something out that people can actually install if they want to gain some traction. Meego never got that far; I thought it might be useful for my wife's laptop, but when I went to get an ISO, there was a message of roughly, "yeah, we haven't had a working installer in 9 months, check back later."

--
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)

Re:No details yet by Svartalf · 2011-09-28 03:08 · Score: 1

MeeGo wasn't a downstream of RedHat. It just used RPMs for packaging. It was a downstream of OpenEmbedded that was tagged from out of OpenedHand's Poky Linux system.

--
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Re:No details yet by bill_mcgonigle · 2011-09-28 07:11 · Score: 1

MeeGo wasn't a downstream of RedHat.
Not Redhat, Fedora (Redhat is a downstream of Fedora). I got that idea from this but in context, perhaps what that's really saying is that it's a port of MeeGo onto Fedora.

--
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)

Re:MeeGo Drop MeeGo by bill_mcgonigle · 2011-09-28 02:34 · Score: 2

Why would any developers want to write in HTML5?

It's easier. Easier = more apps = more revenue for whoever's running the app store.

It seems unlikely that they'll write their own rendering engine or switch the whole project over to GTK, so probably this will be running WebKit on Qt. Perhaps even on XCB if they're feeling ambitious - Qt on X11 suffers from layering performance problems (one of the Qt devs has a good blog post on all the inefficiencies from the driver layer on up).

--
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)

Re:Android is next... by h4rr4r · 2011-09-28 02:44 · Score: 1

Actually they get money for each device that has the Google market, which they then also get a cut of sales.

Translation: by morari · 2011-09-28 02:46 · Score: 1

Adios MeeGo!

--
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune

Re:Android is next... by Raenex · 2011-09-28 02:48 · Score: 1

Sun made Java to do what exactly?

Initially it was for television-based devices.

I never figured it out, they never seemed to get any real kickback from people using Java. No hardware sales, no software sales, no licensing fees, no split of any profits of anything built using Java that I can tell.

They licensed it to mobile devices, and I think some other partners as well:

"That had become lucrative: a source familiar with Sun's Java work said royalty payments for mobile Java was the dominant part of the hundreds of millions of dollars a year Sun took garnered in Java revenue. "

You're right, though, that for as big as Java was brand-wise, they didn't profit all that much. Then again, they ended up being bought by Oracle for a lot of money, and a big part of that was because of Java, so it wasn't exactly a losing bet. Their biggest problem was the competition with Linux and cheap PCs. Java at least gave them name recognition in the tech world.

The QT question by ryzvonusef · 2011-09-28 03:06 · Score: 1

Reading around in the Meego Forum Thread on this topic, I found the following tidbits:

1-They are trying to dodge the MeeGo question, as asked directly in this IRC chat

2-Nokia have also noticed this, as seen by this tweet by a guy for for Qt/MeeGo at Nokia.

3-However, a Company called Novomok will provide Tizen with Qt, so...huh?

4- Also, Intel App up will be supported, and that's based on Qt apps, so yeah.

--
I am an ACCA student. Got a query on Accountancy/Finance? Maybe I can help!

Re:They sure make it _sound_ lame by kju · 2011-09-28 03:14 · Score: 1

HTML is there for DISPLAYING WEB PAGES, it's not meant for PROGRAMMING A GUI

You should probably take a step out of the cave you spent the last ten years in and have a look around at reality.

HTML5+JavaScript+etc. are absolutely great for programming a GUI. You might be confusing the GUI with the backend behind.

Nokia is doing what Apple was doing to itself by janimal · 2011-09-28 03:20 · Score: 1

In the early nineties Apple was trying to get more leverage for its platforms by letting others in on its fantastic architecture and OS. Steve Jobs proved this to be a mistake. Noka is repeating it. I wonder when they wake up. Intel was never on the bandwagon. Maemo was one polished system. The Intel lever was as necessary as a fifth wheel on a cart.

Re:Android is next... by gtall · 2011-09-28 03:39 · Score: 1

Apparently it is also profitable for Microsoft as well.

Nokia = Amiga for a new generation by forgot_my_username · 2011-09-28 04:02 · Score: 3, Funny

I don't know what the deal is..
I had an Amiga 1000... loved it (superior in sooooo many ways) ! Then Commodore blew it.
Then I had the Nokia 770... loved it! But, Nokia never really did anything with it
Then I got the Nokia N800 ... loved it! But, Nokia blew it.
Then I saw the N9... I want it... then Nokia Blows it before even releasing it
WTF?!?!?

hmmmm... I bet the problem is me...

I formally apologize for liking Nokia.
Now...maybe they can get their head out of their butts.

Re:Nokia = Amiga for a new generation by naranek · 2011-09-28 17:49 · Score: 1

You know there was an alternative, right? I switched to WebOS after N800 and bought a Pre 3. HP blew that the next day. Still loving the phone though.

--
Only dumb birds land downwind.
Re:Nokia = Amiga for a new generation by forgot_my_username · 2011-10-02 08:26 · Score: 1

Sigh
(I like HP too...see where that gets me)

Re:They sure make it _sound_ lame by GPLHost-Thomas · 2011-09-28 04:28 · Score: 1

Mind you, I know what I'm talking about. I've written some Ajax stuff myself, with drag'n'drop, and all the fancy stuff. I also wrote a toolkit myself. I also used many libs, like extjs and so on (I maintain libjs-extjs in Debian). So no, I haven't stayed in the cave for the last 10 years. I absolutely know you CAN write a GUI in HTML, but that's crap. It's like chop stick to eat a steak: it's not a tool adapted for what you want, so the result is ugly, and you get your face dirty in the process.

Another native-as-an-afterthought platform? by inglorion_on_the_net · 2011-09-28 05:20 · Score: 1

From the Tizen announcement:

The Tizen application programming interfaces are based on HTML5 and other web standards, and we anticipate that the vast majority of Tizen application development will be based on these emerging standards.

This is what made me not interested in WebOS. IIRC, they added support for native code soon after, but, initially, they pushed it as a HTML+JavaScript platform. We already have that. And I don't want it.

Fortunately, they also write:

For those who use native code in their applications, the Tizen SDK will include a native development kit. We will open the entire Tizen software stack, from the core OS up through the core applications and polished user interfaces.

So, at least, they will support native code, too. Question is, will it be a real Unix-like system like Maemo, or will it be a "forget what you know, here are new APIs to do the same things" deal like Android and WebOS?

--
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.

Intel wanted native by suy · 2011-09-28 06:19 · Score: 1

I assisted to one of the Intel MeeGo/AppUp events, and they clearly stated:

We love Android too, but it's obvious why Intel wants to support native code, isn't it?

And that made sense to me. By lowering the costs of the software, they can make really cheap devices, like the EEE PC X101 (200 USD or 179 EURO). Also, if almost all the code is native, they can provide their software products and services not only to device manufacturers, but also to developers (e.g., a very specialiced compiler/debugger/profiler to game developers). But with HTML5 (the API for Tizen) this doesn't make sense anymore. The change from Mobiln to MeeGo (GTK+/Clutter to Qt) made sense to them: they are still encouraging native code, and they release the burden of maintaining the API. But with Tizen and Qt to HTML5? This makes the AppUp store way less relevant, isn't it?

Re:Android is next... by Kjella · 2011-09-28 12:44 · Score: 1

It is the most popular platform for enterprise/cloud computing.

Well everybody said it was cross-platform, so is it a platform on top of a platform then? Guess that depends on your definition.

Really ? How many users of windows even know/heard of .NET ?

Okay maybe I didn't explain it clearly. Users care about applications, application developers care about platforms. Making .NET => Windows applications => Windows sales.

Promote their server sales, which worked for a while until other server vendors caught on.

I would wager that even at the height 99%+ of all Java apps didn't run on a Sun server. Was the Sparc JVM superior to the others in any way? Not that I heard of...

--
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings

Re:Android is next... by mcvos · 2011-09-28 22:35 · Score: 1

Every time you touch that search button on your Android phone it makes Google very happy.

It does? Because my search button directs its search to DuckDuckGo.

suse invite meego by tuxthink · 2011-09-29 08:40 · Score: 1

just read that openSUSE has invited meego community to join hands with them. There is still hope for meego to survive i guess

100 of 121 comments (clear)