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Researchers Dispute Closing of the Bruce Ivins Anthrax Case
Stirling Newberry writes "The New York Times reports that an upcoming paper by Martin E. Hugh-Jones, Barbara Hatch Rosenberg, and Stuart Jacobsen – all of whom have long questioned the closing of the Bruce Ivins anthrax case – points to the presence of tin in the spore samples as a sign that the samples mailed had been processed beyond what Ivins alone could have done. While not disputing that the spores came from Ft. Detrick, Hugh-Jones, who has co-authored several papers on anthrax signatures, contends according to the Times: 'it appears likely that Dr. Ivins could not have made the anthrax powder alone with the equipment he possessed, as the F.B.I. maintains. That would mean either that he got the powder from elsewhere or that he was not the perpetrator.' For a good summary of the case from a medical standpoint, this paper in the Annals of Internal Medicine is an excellent place to start. A review by the National Resources Council that stated the evidence available was not sufficient to locate the source of the spores is also available."
...that once the police "get their man", their effort is spent proving that he was the guy, not to look for things that disprove their theory, correct?
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
My first thought was, how was the glassware used in making and storing the anthrax prepared? It'd be pretty easy to get some measurable tin contamination just from things like not acid washing the glassware used, and I'd be a little surprised if that had been done.(Admittedly, I'm not a microbiologist, but glass tends to hang onto cations like metals. I'm not sure why you'd take extraordinary measures to get rid of it unless you were planning to have it trace element analyzed.)
When they first detected trace silicon in the spores, they thought it might be from weaponization, but it turned out to be internal to the spores rather than an external additive. (Boring sort that I am, I read the FBI summary report of the Ivins case.)
You laugh, but things that simple have sunk papers before.
seems to be success pressure in high profile cases. Showing results is paramount over doing it right and just.
Troy Davis being one recent example and Bruce Ivins may have been another casualty to this pressure, seeing the injustice and facing the witch-hunt could have driven him to suicide which makes it easy to label him guilty: SUCCESS!
Trust to US justice system and other institutions (FBI, CIA, Police) is reduced more and more.
While only tangentially related it seems many in Law Enforcement are not too keen on the idea of chemistry in general.
All too often they will arrest someone who has a DIY home lab setup, for running a meth lab, despite not having the necessary supplies to make meth. All you need as far as LE goes is a few beakers and a Bunsen burner and you're making meth.
The researchers found a single inconsistency in the FBI's case: the sample has too much tin. This alone is not enough to disprove it. There are alternative explanations.
As well, anecdotally, apparently even the most open and shut cases have at least one extremely odd occurrence that is hard to explain. And by open and shut cases I mean cases where the murderer took the police to where he had buried the bodies.
For example, the murderer drove in 10 minutes a distance than normally takes 25 minutes. Or a disgruntled former employee who lives nowhere the scene of the crime happened to walk by at the same time the guilty person was committing the murder.
On the other hand, it is also true that once policemen zero in on a potential target they have a really hard time retargeting their sights. This happened to Richard Jewell, who on the basis of the evidence should have been declared not a suspect much much earlier. But the FBI had become convinced he was guilty and kept on ignoring and rejecting exculpatory evidence.
That you are living life on the edge if you have the stuff to make anthrax just laying around!
Rick B.
If any of the 9/11 "government/Jews/missiles did it" (did I miss anyone?) get a hold of this story, I can only imagine what stuff they'll think up. Could he have had help- dunno, I'm not a chemist. Is the government covering something up- I kind of doubt they are covering up their own "we helped him!", but maybe leaving some other parties out of the news (then and now). Or, as some others have already said, they got someone who looked good for it, and "case closed," time for a donut.
I'm all for looking into this more if warranted. At this point, I have zero trust in what any administration says. I just don't want to hear the ding-dongs going off about how Xenu and ancient Crab People did it.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
I recently listened to a podcast from NPR's Science Friday in which the interviewee (whose name I don't recall) suggested that her research indicated that one of the 9/11 hijackers had some anthrax DNA on his hands that matched the strain in the envelope/mail attacks. The additional information she provided indicated that the Bora Bora caves (where we just missed Bin Laden) had twice tested with positive matches for the same anthrax strain.
The suggestion was that the 9/11 hijackers had possibly sent out the mailings of anthrax just prior to undertaking their hijackings.
There may or may not be significant holes in these theories, but I'm presenting them from what I recall in the NPR interview. Anyone else care to provide further details, dispute these claims (or just tell me I'm dumb)?
I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
Don't be ridiculous! Everybody knows Xenu and the ancient Crab People just don't get along, at all....
This is such a waste of money...the FBI's most expensive case EVER.
DO you notice a trend that the US government seems to think that the more money we put into something (and fail), the more ADDITIONAL funding is used to push ourselves deeper into the void...?
What the F. Give me my money back!
Go study.
I am not even convinced that this man had any part of it. However, there is ZERO chance that this was a single person doing this.
Please do not attempt to link his case to Bruce Ivins, Bruce actually may be innocent. Troy Davis's "innocence" is built on a well developed case of misinformation or purposeful omission. Many love to claim that seven out of nine witnesses changed their story implying that there were only nine whereas there there were thirty four witnesses brought forward. In the seven of nine group the DEFENSE refused to allow to two to go before the judge as required. One of those was a person they were trying to implicate which the Judge said, unless you call him to the stand you cannot do that. The defense didn't even refute the first shooting made with the same gun.
We don't know enough about the Bruce Ivins case, we certainly don't have thirty plus witnesses to what happened let alone the ability to subpoena all the documentation. It also is quite clear that the word Terror is the buzzword which they attempt to muzzle any true investigation.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Alright!!! I admit it. Me and the rest of my space alien friends were behind 9/11. We also killed JFK because we didn't want your human dirty footprints all over our handy moon we use for special Earth operations. We also nailed RFK just to make sure...damn it still didn't work. We did 9/11 to keep you busy so you'd not have enough dough left to pester us in space. And the anthrax, well, Billy-Bob, our pet human, got out when we weren't watching very well. We promise not to let him out by accident again. The next time it will be personal. Could you please give us your correct home address...just for our records?
Oh, not again.
One of the main reasons the 9/11 operation was so successful was that it was very closely held. Some of the actual participants didn't know the plan until the day of the event. It didn't take much in the way of resources; a few men willing to die and about $250,000.
DO you notice a trend that the US government seems to think that the more money we put into something (and fail), the more ADDITIONAL funding is used to push ourselves deeper into the void...?
FBI --> Peanuts. You should see that modus operandi in action over at the DoD.
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
Can we even believe is was suicide? Sure seemed awful convienient even before ever-mounting doubts.
Over the weekend, I watched a CNN documentary (and they usually rerun sporadically for months) about the anthrax case. I also saw that there's a new Frontline that airs this week about the anthrax case too. (The CNN documentary didn't cover this dispute.)
The intent of the anthrax attacks was to whip the MSM news into complacency as to what the Bush Administration wanted.
And this was half of the machinery planned.
The other half was the Telcos spying on the American Public for the GOV. with the insane excuse of looking for terrorist. Since language and its components are only of value to the meaning attached by those using it, any communication by terrorist could easily be designed to come off as common conversation, meaning something different to those listening in than those using it.
Our Own Government uses double and triple speak all the damn time, especially during elections and law passing.
The end machinery achieved is spying on US citizens to get the general attitudes of, and then use the media news to manipulate the general public's attitude to be accepting of an invasion of Iraq... they added the lie of WMD to help.
So Dr. Ivins committed Suicide... sure buddy... And teh guy they initially tried to blame sued and got more than Richard Jewell (wrongly accused of the Olympic Centinnel park bombing)
Yeah Yeah, Don't Forget building 7....etc...
What a Fu&in lousy government...
It is called "being suicided" and Ivins is just the last in a long list that goes back before Roberto Calvi and includes the DC Madam amongst others.
The whole 9/11 story from the gov is a joke. Hani Hanjour flying an 80 ton 757 when a month before he was refused rental of a Cessna 172 because he "couldn't control the aircraft" and "had trouble keeping the plane level". I mean seriously people think about it. A Cessna 172 would fit in a 2 car garage and some clown who can't fly it will fly an 80 ton 757 through a maneuver so precise that even ace pilots like Cmdr Kolstad say he personally would have a hard time doing.
Just compare 2 resumes: Hani Hanjour vs Commander Kolstad
I agree with the good commander on this one. The government's story stinks to high heaven.