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U.S. Senator Wyden Raises Constitutional Questions About ACTA

bs0d3 writes "In a written letter which can be found here, U.S. Senator Ron Wyden questions President Obama's authority to sign ACTA without Congressional approval. 'It may be possible for the U.S. to implement ACTA or any other trade agreement, once validly entered, without legislation if the agreement requires no change in U.S. law,' Wyden writes. 'But regardless of whether the agreement requires changes in U.S. law ... the executive branch lacks constitutional authority to enter a binding international agreement covering issues delegated by the Constitution to Congress' authority, absent congressional approval.'"

15 of 239 comments (clear)

  1. I actually agree with the Democrat here by DesScorp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Trade agreements are a form of treaty, and treaties have to be voted on by the Senate. The Constitution does this for a good reason, preventing the President from unilaterally committing the United States to international agreements. Wyden is right on this. And ACTA is clearly a trade agreement. Send this to the Senate first for a vote.

    --
    Life is hard, and the world is cruel
    1. Re:I actually agree with the Democrat here by Toonol · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So do I. I'm a crazed far-right Republican, but Wyden is a remarkably sensible Democrat, and the type that can get people to cross party lines to vote for him.

      He knows what he's talking about when it comes to technology, and is usually on the correct side on issues such as copyright, privacy, security, etc.

      His views on economics are painfully wrong, though.

    2. Re:I actually agree with the Democrat here by AmElder · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I disagree, ACTA is not, at heart, a trade agreement at all. It's a law enforcement treaty focusing on intellectual property. It aims to harmonise the enforcement measure with regard to intellectual property across the signatories. There's evidence for this in every portion of ACTA, but you just have to look at the headings for the two substantive chapters:

      • Chapter II: Legal Framework for Enforcement of Intellectual Property Rights
      • Chapter III: Enforcement Practices

      This doesn't diminish your point or Senator Wyden's. To quote an excellent article by Sean Flynn, ACTA would affect:

      "evidentiary standards required for property seizures and criminal prosecution. It would affect state common law, where many trade secret obligations reside. And primarily it would affect the evolution of federal law, including the large federal statutory enactments on patents, copyrights and trademarks."

      The president doesn't have any enumerated (or un-enumerated) powers that cover this territory, indeed, the power to regulate intellectual property, I understand, is an enumerated power of congress (Article I, sec 8 of the constitution). Therefore the agreement should be submitted to congress by the president and more specifically by the USTR under his authority.

    3. Re:I actually agree with the Democrat here by GameboyRMH · · Score: 3, Funny

      Cue Von Mises/CATO reference in 3,2,1...

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    4. Re:I actually agree with the Democrat here by DesScorp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You assume the Senate is functioning...

      But what about cases where it is not, like now?

      The Senate is functioning as it was designed to, as a break on both the House and the Presidency. The Senate was never supposed to be a rubber-stamp, for either the President or the House.

        The whole point of a Senate is to have a group of men to take a deep look at what the House (which was always supposed to be the popular voice of the people) passes in the heat of the moment, and it was designed to prevent the President from becoming a Caesar. This is why treaties have to be voted on by the Senate, and why the President's appointments to his cabinet and to SCOTUS have to be reviewed, scrutinized, and voted on by the Senate. This is also why Senators were not popularly elected when the Constitution was written, but appointed by state legislators. The whole idea of the founders was to put a second party into the Congress that was indirectly responsible to the people (via their elected state houses), but not popularly elected, and thus less subject to the passions of the moment. I used to support popular election of Senators, but the older I've gotten, the more I think the founders had it right in the first place, and that the 17th Amendment was a mistake.

      Also, if you want things to pass easier in the Senate... the way they do in the House, with a simple majority vote, well, the way is clear here. Just demand that the Senate drop their unique rules requiring 60 votes. That rule is not in the Constitution, but an internal Senate rule (which the Constitution permits).

      Just be careful before you demand this. Because if the Senate goes to simple-majority vote, so can future Senates... ones where the other party is the majority.

      --
      Life is hard, and the world is cruel
    5. Re:I actually agree with the Democrat here by eepok · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I believe the person to whom you reply would contest that your interpretation of the goings-on in Congress is naive. While everyone would agree with the principal as you state:

      "The whole point of a Senate is to have a group of men to take a deep look at what the House (which was always supposed to be the popular voice of the people) passes in the heat of the moment," ... few people believe that's what actually happening. We have seen *many* acts and bills passed in the heat of the moment and it's hard to argue that our Senators are as much philosophers as they are self- and party-interested tacticians.

      People don't complain about the difficulty of things passing in any house of Congress nearly as much as they do the severe biases that allows some things to pass and others not.

    6. Re:I actually agree with the Democrat here by Obfuscant · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The whole idea of the founders was to put a second party into the Congress that was indirectly responsible to the people (via their elected state houses), but not popularly elected, and thus less subject to the passions of the moment.

      The reason they weren't elected, and why there are two for every state, is that they were intended to be the body that looked out for the interests of the country as a whole and not the specific interests of the state they came from or the voters therein. Ratification of treaties falls squarely under that baliwick, since treaties tend to have an impact on the entire country and not just one or two states. Ditto federal appointments.

      The 17th amendment was a big mistake, because now all we have are people looking out for their own skins and getting re-elected instead of looking out for the US. This has turned the Senate into nothing more than a posh version of the House.

    7. Re:I actually agree with the Democrat here by sconeu · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I read somewhere that the primary function of a Senator from Oregon is to drive all the rest of the Senate crazy.

      Note. This is a *GOOD* thing.

      Thank you, Senator Wyden.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  2. The Constitution? by ShakaUVM · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Constitution? Pfft.

    We've moved past that a long time ago.

    Asset forfeiture, warrantless search and seizure, restrictions on the freedom of the press on the internet...

  3. It's a real issue, because of a DoD privilege by Animats · · Score: 4, Informative

    First, the link to the letter in the article tries to get you to sign up for some file storage service before reading the document. Here's the original from Sen. Wyden's U.S, Senate site.

    The reason this isn't being submitted to the Senate for ratification as a treaty is because of a conflict between the pharmaceutical industry and the Department of Defense. The pharmaceutical industry insists that national governments not be allowed to override intellectual property laws to make low-cost drugs available to their citizens. That's in ACTA. DoD insists that they be allowed to override intellectual property laws when they want to use a technology without paying for patent rights first.

    If ACTA were ratified by the Senate, it would be binding on the U.S. Goverment. This would give patent holders rights against the U.S. Government they dont' have now. DoD doesn't want that.

    1. Re:It's a real issue, because of a DoD privilege by Solandri · · Score: 3, Interesting

      DoD insists that they be allowed to override intellectual property laws when they want to use a technology without paying for patent rights first.

      Are you sure? It sounds more like they just want to preserve the Bayh-Dole Act, meaning if the government helps fund the R&D for a product, they get non-exclusive royalty-free rights to any IP generated from it. I know the DoD has some overreaching powers over IP when it comes to national secrecy or times of war, but I haven't heard of them being able to just use someone's independently-developed patent outright without paying for it (aside from the regular government indemnification from being sued).

  4. Re:This President... by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No, he's not. He's a pawn for his corporatist handlers, just like Bush was.

  5. Re:Since when... by scot4875 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sorry, but anyone referring to Obama as the "Messiah" or the "One" or the "Chosen" or whatever deserves to be modded to oblivion because it's flamebait. Essentially you're insulting both Obama *and* insinuating that his supporters are fanatical, irrational worshippers, without having the balls to come out and say it. It's a nice little straw man for you to attack without putting any effort or thought into it.

    I'll admit that I didn't even read the rest of your OP, because I figured it would be more of the same.

    --Jeremy

    --
    Jesus was a liberal
  6. Re:This President... by scot4875 · · Score: 3, Informative

    No, it was the Republican minority that somehow maneuvered the health care bill into a situation where the individual mandate was the *only* way to pay for it. I'm not sure how else they expected it to work when they took the single payer option off the table.

    I'd claim that it was just an unintended consequence, except I'm pretty sure this was *exactly* what was intended. They get to force the issue, then blame Obama for what they did. Brilliant, really, especially considering how many dupes will happily swallow the lie whole as long as it fits with their "Obama and the Democrats are big spenders!" mantra.

    --Jeremy

    --
    Jesus was a liberal
  7. DoD IP rights by ace37 · · Score: 4, Informative

    As a DoD contractor, I see that all the time. DoD employees are rightfully pissed when contractors develop tech on the government dime, then take the tech a half step further and start calling it proprietary. It's total BS. The DoD always wants the simple right to use the things they paid for without paying again. And in years past, DoD contracts departments have sometimes done a poor job and then been burned by buying something on a low initial bid, being sold a proprietary technology, and then being stuck with ridiculously overpriced maintenance costs and no way to cost-effectively hire someone else to do the work.

    I've never seen the DoD just try to directly use a foreign patent for free, although it's not an issue of whether or not they want to--I think it's more functional roles. The DoD is primarily composed of enlisted guys who do the work and generalist officers who lead them. They employ pockets of specialists to keep the generalists out of trouble, and those few specialists usually end up responsible for technical management of programs and contracts so the officers don't need to do day to day management and can focus on strategic items. That way DoD officers don't have to learn how to manage highly technical staffs--which is a very different task from managing soldiers in the field, so this significatanly cuts DoD overhead--and the DoD doesn't have to figure out how to keep paying for a costly technical staff if congress reduces funding since they can just not extend contracts.

    The DoD will still be crying for the new features and capabilities provided by new patents, but they generally don't care how it gets done, and consequently, the patent is an issue the contractor can figure out. The DoD just wants 'sharks with frikin lasers attached to their heads.'
    And now they buy the documentation too so they can later get competitive bids on upgrading those lasers down the road.