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Winged Robots Hint At the Origins of Flight
sciencehabit writes "Here's what we know about the evolution of flight: By about 150 million years ago, the forests were filled with flying — or perhaps just gliding — dinosaurs like Archaeopteryx, possibly similar to the ancestor of modern birds. What we don't know is what primitive wings were used for before bird ancestors could fly. A new study (abstract) provides some fresh data for this debate, not from fossils but from a winged robot (video included)."
Because it hints at being able to model biological systems with robots, and make comparative analysis of the different advantages that might be gained. Since many features evolve in parallel, it can also be used to judge the relative chance of rapid versus gradual evolution. Good catch sciencehabit.
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When you research Metabolic Boost for Zerglings they get wings that improve their running speed by 60%. Any bronze level newbie knows wings improve land speed.
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I hate stating something like this without any citation, but when I was reading some textbook for a class my girlfriend was taking back in college I was surprised that flight evolved separately multiple times according to the fossil record. Intermediate wings must provide a pretty statistically significant benefit.
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How about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaMTSOI1Zk4
Not wings, per se, but maybe stretched flaps of skin? Also, it looks like shi7-tons of fun
Would be a robot (with a penis/vagina say) that could reproduce. Seriously isn't reproduction the first thing life does? Flight is far down the list.
What we don't know is what primitive wings were used for before bird ancestors could fly.
Jump farther?
Name one non-raptor based animal that uses flapping or wing like features to increase running or walking speed.
We have all sorts of mammals and snakes that use skin flaps for gliding. Unless we have examples of non-rapture creatures that use skin flaps of some sort to do increase walking/running speed, I would think the answer is obvious.
If gliding is faster than walking/running, then isn't using flapping to glide technically increasing running or walking speed?
Heh, the quote at the bottom of the page: "Misfortunes arrive on wings and leave on foot."
I think naming such a species could be precluded by the observation that it appears that it would only work in bipeds, or at least in animals that have an extra set of limbs that aren't being used for locomotion or something equally important. there really aren't that many redundant limbs to work with.
We might have had some, except for the whole tool making thing; bats are tree dwelling rats, as long as they could still climb a bit, insects, it's damn easy to pop out extra arms on those buggers, and T-rex foreplay sticks.
i don't know, maybe both paths are possible, bats through gliding and birds through running, I mean, the presumed ancestors were pretty good runners right? what the hell did they need to glide for?
Small warm-blooded animals have a tough time keeping warm, particularly in rain. Some people who study hibernation have theorized that wings and feathers both came from the need to have something like a rainjacket, that could deflect rain, but could also be opened up to vent excess heat during exercise, based on the huge primary feathers of many waterfowl, that cover their whole backs and sides.
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How fast can YOU run with your arms held by your side? There's huge benefit in swinging your arms while running, and I'm sure I'd start flapping too if chased by something bigger than me with teeth. There's also huge benefits in terms of balance if rapidly changing direction while running, or navigating tricky terrains slowly. Flying could then be the added advantage of not dying when you fall.
I think naming such a species could be precluded by the observation that it appears that it would only work in bipeds, or at least in animals that have an extra set of limbs that aren't being used for locomotion or something equally important. there really aren't that many redundant limbs to work with.
Birds don't have a redundant set of limbs, what were their arms have been switched to just be wings. They are now mostly avian bipeds, except for those who have lost the ability to fly such as penguins and ostriches.
We might have had some, except for the whole tool making thing; bats are tree dwelling rats, as long as they could still climb a bit,
That is my point. All we have are examples of animals that are either gliders or have evolved from gliders. Bats didn't evolve their wings for running. Then we have flying squirrels, sugar gliders & "flying" snakes that have all evolved extended skin flaps for extending their gliding distance between trees.
If gliding is faster than walking/running, then isn't using flapping to glide technically increasing running or walking speed?
Heh, the quote at the bottom of the page: "Misfortunes arrive on wings and roller skates, and leave on foot."
FTFY
Unless we have examples of non-rapture creatures that use skin flaps of some sort to do increase walking/running speed
These post-rapture hell creatures are indeed scary! Oh, the pain of humanity being eaten by lizards with skin flaps! The suffering! ;)
Can't think of a running example but what about an animal that has evolved to be flat as possible for camouflage reasons? The Horned Lizard comes to mind. That thing just looks like it could glide if you threw it but it never evolved that shape by gliding.
Tim Lehay is in charge of that project.
actually, just about every bipedal animal does exactly that, including us, specially if they don't have a large tail.
The theory that flight evolved with proto birds using flapping wings to climb inclines is based on actual bird behavior. A bird running up an incline WILL use it's wings to help scale the slope. It is possible that flight evolved from both ends of the scale, with proto birds using their wings to help climb trees and then glide to another.
This is too obvious and therefore likely wrong. But when an animal jumps from tree to tree (vague thoughts of Monty Python "Swinging from tree to tree") it holds it's arms out. When a runner jumps a long gap, s/he continues to pedal the legs as if there is something to pedal on. The arms being out stretched would, initially, be of little aerodynamic value but, with a little evolution here and there, would soon be of advantage to the animal enabling it to leap further if they had some extra skin attached under the arms. How much further of a leap is it to assume that an evolved, small aerodynamic surface would benefit the next round, or that moving the limbs, like we humans do in a long jump, would assist the "jump"?
If gliding is faster than walking/running, then isn't using flapping to glide technically increasing running or walking speed?
No, because it's technically not running or walking.
It's the same reason using my legs to run isn't technically increasing my sitting speed. :P
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Feathers evolved to enhance parachuting, that is, slowing the fall when jumping out of trees. When the smooth scales of lizards began to change, they didn't enhance any survival trait except create greater wind resistance. This slowed the creature down when it had to jump to get away from predators. Even today, small mammals jump from heights and use their fur to slow them down. There is no question, early birds were accustomed to jumping from heights and wings evolved to change the jump to a glide.
Don't stop where the ink does.
How fast can YOU run with your arms held by your side? There's huge benefit in swinging your arms while running, and I'm sure I'd start flapping too if chased by something bigger than me with teeth.
I'm not sure, but I think I could run faster with my arms by my side rather than flapping them out at my sides. I'd hope for your sake that you'd pump your arms, rather than flap them, if pursued by a predator.
But in any case that's us humans.
Birds, on the other hand, can run quite rapidly with their wings at their sides. Not just flightless birds, but birds that can fly but often choose to run -- e.g. roadrunners -- do so with their wings folded. Why would a bird with fully developed wings not use them if they provided an advantage running? Why would birds that had adapted to life on the ground and running from predators lose their flight feathers if they were advantageous?
I would say the reason is that wings are not very effective for running compared to legs. The best way to propel yourself along the ground is to push off of the ground, not off of the air. Wings are for creating lift -- which would be useful for gliding or jumping, but not running.
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Comparing the energy invested in flapping vs incremental improvement in motion would seem important, not to mention the energy invested in creating the wings in the first place.
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But maybe just stabilization in water at first (like fishes' fins and penguins), then later stabilization while sliding on muddy or icy land into landing slower from larger heights, gliding into flying.
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Flight has actually originated in three seperate events. Birds, bats, and insects.