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Ask Slashdot: GNU/Linux Laptops?

Posted by Unknown on from the the-internet-tells-me-this-is-easier-today dept.

"I'm an OS X user looking to switch to a Linux laptop. I like the Unix/BSD aspect of OS X. Simple things like when I close the lid the laptop goes to sleep, the sound card works out of the box, long battery life, minimum cooling fan noise, and a comprehensive but relatively straightforward backup system and 'AppleCare' package are important to me. What all-inclusive model of laptop and distro would you recommend?" He didn't mention it, but I am presuming that working Wifi should be on that list too.

67 of 708 comments (clear)

  1. Not a troll but.... by SultanCemil · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Honestly, wouldn't a MacBook of some description be the best choice? You "like the Unix/BSD aspect...", hardware working, good battery life, AppleCare-type support, etc. Why switch? Are you looking for cheaper hardware? Philosophical leaning towards Linux?

    --
    Cemil.
    1. Re:Not a troll but.... by PowerMacG4 · · Score: 2

      Exactly my sentiments.

    2. Re:Not a troll but.... by SultanCemil · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Your username implies a bias :-)

      --
      Cemil.
    3. Re:Not a troll but.... by GreatDrok · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A modern MacBook has no mouse buttons since it is multitouch. They are simply the best mouse pad on any laptop currently available.

      My feeling having gone the other way some time back is that a MacBook is the cheapest way of getting a decent UNIX laptop with all the hardware working, plus the hardware is well built and the OS works nicely. You can even run Linux on a MacBook if you really want to go that route. The build quality of most PC laptops is so poor that you end up paying just as much for a good Windows laptop to run Linux as you would buying a MacBook.

      --
      "I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
    4. Re:Not a troll but.... by exomondo · · Score: 4, Funny

      he wants to fit in with the cool gang at Slashdot

      also,

      IT"S THE YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP

      yeah but he wants a linux laptop ;)

    5. Re:Not a troll but.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      A trackpad on a Mac supports multiple actions depending on the number of fingers placed when clicking. I bought my first Mac (and first Apple product ever, for that matter) six months ago and the transition from a multiple-button laptop mouse to a multi-touch trackpad was pretty quick. Now I get thrown off when I don't have it.

    6. Re:Not a troll but.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Because you like the feeling of completely owning and controlling your laptop?

      Try a laptop from System 76. Everything works right out of the box.

    7. Re:Not a troll but.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've got a System76 laptop. They're good, and they have good support. They're pricey though (but nowhere near as bad as Apple).

    8. Re:Not a troll but.... by SerpentMage · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I completely agree here. I have been looking at laptops to buy and quite frankly it is scary. The cheap notebooks are Windows proprietary s**t. And if you start to move to anything better quality with better hardware you get close to Apple hardware. I thought I was seeing things, but Apple hardware is not that much more expensive. And if you want to get anything without windows on it, well good luck with that!

      I am not saying that you can't find a laptop, but it is truly becoming like pulling teeth. The entire industry outside of Apple has decided to jump on the Windows bandwagon. It leads me to wonder what happened to the separation of OEM from Microsoft? Oh yeah went down the tubers when the legal restrictions expired.

      I am not impressed!!!

      --

      "You can't make a race horse of a pig"
      "No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
    9. Re:Not a troll but.... by hawguy · · Score: 2

      All of the above worked out of the box on my Thinkpad T520 with Ubuntu 10.04, 11.04, and 11.10. (depending on how you define "long battery life" -- my battery lasts about 20% longer with Win7 than on Ubuntu.)

      I don't know what all "Applecare" gives you, but you can buy a Desktop support contract from Canonical for around $100/year:

      http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?currency=USD&products_id=667

      You can do UbuntuOne cloud based backups (depending on how much data you want to back up), or something like Dejadup or Flyback for local backups.

    10. Re:Not a troll but.... by itsdapead · · Score: 2, Informative

      Perhaps he does not want the comparatively walled (though curated?) garden of a mac. I agree, though, almost all of the "just works" aspects that he want sounds like it would fit a macbook.

      A Mac isn't an iPad - Apple would like you to you use the App Store, but you can still run what you like. The compilers and dev tools are free. If you install MacPorts you get access to a huge range of FOSS projects. Others (E.g. LibreOffice, Eclipse) have native ports that don't rely on X Windows.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    11. Re:Not a troll but.... by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Why not put Linux on a MacBook? I have.

      https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBook

      "I listen to Fela Kuti and I Vote!"

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    12. Re:Not a troll but.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So... nothing RMS codes either, right?

    13. Re:Not a troll but.... by PCM2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I am not saying that you can't find a laptop, but it is truly becoming like pulling teeth. The entire industry outside of Apple has decided to jump on the Windows bandwagon.

      I'm not sure what mythical age you're referring to when PCs didn't come pre-bundled with Windows.

      What does seem to have changed, though, is that laptops now seem almost completely homogeneous. You can pick from just a few screen sizes -- 14" and 15.6" seemingly being the two most popular. But guess what? Whichever size you pick, they all have the same resolution: 1366x768. For the majority of models, the graphics will be powered by Intel onboard graphics -- which, by the way, are now actually integrated into the CPU dies. You can pick from a few different hard drive sizes -- 320GB, 500GB, and now 640GB being typical. Those will be 5400rpm drives, BTW. And the drive sizes will be closely tied to the CPU speed for pricing reasons -- so you might find a Core i3 with a 500GB drive, but if you want a Core i5 for just $50 more or so, it will come with a smaller drive. If you want the whole shebang, you'll have to pay more, plus they'll throw in something extra you didn't want (like WiMax or something).

      Basically it's just an all-out price war, where all the manufacturers are producing virtually identical models while trying everything in their power to undersell the other guys. That means most of them are cutting a lot of corners. One reasonable shopping strategy is to find a configuration you like, list all the specific models that have those exact specs, and decide which brand you trust not to build a complete piece of shit -- but you can't even rely on brands these days, it seems.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    14. Re:Not a troll but.... by drjones78 · · Score: 2

      The other option is to run Linux ON a Mac laptop. Most Mac's work pretty well with Linux. Sometimes newer models have some issues, but they usually get ironed out pretty fast, because there's lots of demand for them too.

      While OSX is technically UNIX, it is much easier to do many Unixy things on Linux or traditional BSD's.

    15. Re:Not a troll but.... by jmelchio · · Score: 4, Informative

      Until recently I had an old PowerBook G4 and a Macbook Pro. When the Powerbook died I had to make a choice of forking out significant money to replace it with another apple product or get something cheaper. The Macbook Pro allows me to do iOS development which I need for work, the second machine is really more for wife and kids so it's not that important what it runs but I still like the idea of having a Unix/Linux system.
      I was pleasantly surprised to see that Ubuntu listed several laptops on their site that would work with their distro so I ended up getting a Dell Inspiron 15 which I re-partitioned. After that I installed Ubuntu 11.04 without a problem and everything works after installation.
      Wife and kids use the Windows 7 partition and I use the Ubuntu partition when I use it which is actually quite often. The machine is obviously not as nice as a Macbook Pro but it costs only a third of what the smallest Macbook Pro costs and as far as I've been able to tell it works just as well for most purposes.

      If you're after a good Unix/Linux experience for a reasonable price I think this is a good option.

      --
      close but no sig
    16. Re:Not a troll but.... by itsdapead · · Score: 3, Informative

      Because you want more than one mouse button, for instance?

      You've been able to plug a standard USB 3 button/wheel mouse into a Mac and use all the buttons since last century - which is good, because mice are the one thing that Apple don't seem to be able to get right (although they've had multiple virtual buttons using touch sensors for years) . Their trackpads, however, are the best in town and support multiple buttons/scrolling via multitouch gestures. You can even enable 3-finger dragging, which finaly makes click-drag usable on a trackpad and is almost (but not quite) enough to wean me off a mouse.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    17. Re:Not a troll but.... by billcopc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Applecare, as I understand it, is just an extended hardware warranty with limited software support ("How do I ____ with OSX?" type stuff).

      I didn't buy it for mine, because $379 seems a bit egregious. If a manufacturing defect doesn't manifest in the first year, I don't see the point in paying for 2 more years of coverage. I use my laptop every day on the go, if something's screwy on it, it's gonna die young.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    18. Re:Not a troll but.... by fj3k · · Score: 2
      I really don't get this build quality argument. Up until recently the main consideration in my laptop purchases was price: whatever was cheapest was what I bought. All of those laptops lasted for at least 6 years before they were discarded - not because of failures, but because they were replaced with something faster. My brother dropped one of my laptops from a height of about 2 metres onto a tiled floor: the screen cracked, but the computer continued to work fine.

      Seriously, what is so magical about Mac build quality?

      --
      Two men claimed to have walked into a bar. Only one had the bruises to prove it.
    19. Re:Not a troll but.... by shellbeach · · Score: 2

      Why switch? Are you looking for cheaper hardware? Philosophical leaning towards Linux?

      While I can't speak for the OP, I recently bought a new laptop and chose (god help me!) an HP dv6-6135tx over a Macbook pro. Although I think the Mac hardware is exceptional, the fact that (in Australia, at least) it was 3x the price was a deciding factor. Another (less important) factor was the lack of a right (or middle) mouse button and a numeric keypad. And finally, there was an ethical decision to not support a company whose ideas on free and open don't match my own (but note that I'm not upholding HP as a bastion of these either -- they just benefited by not being Apple). I should add that I was considering both laptops as linux-only (I dislike both Windows and MacOS and would never use either by choice).

      For the record, the HP works very well with linux after a few minor tweaks (with the exception of the Radeon graphics card, and the slightly increased powerusage of Sandybridge under kernel 3.1, everything works and works well). Since I don't do 3D gaming (and the integrated intel graphics is otherwise more than capable) and I still get 4 hours of battery life even with the Sandybridge issues, I don't see either of these as a problem.

      Otherwise, my only gripe with the current round of laptops (including my dv6, but every single machine I looked at) is the incredibly crap LCD screens, that have a vertical viewing angle of approximately 0 degrees before either washing out or inverting. My one regret is not trying to get one with a higher-res panel (which seem to have better viewing angles) ... but really, how did LCD screen tech get to be so appallingly bad? My 6 year-old laptop that I was replacing (both the burner and the touchpad had died) has a far superior screen, with superb viewing angles. Whatever happened to progress?

    20. Re:Not a troll but.... by martin-boundary · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I always get refurbished Thinkpads. 1) you get cheap high end hardware that lasts and lasts and lasts,... and is actually designed to be opened up for maintenance. 2) there's good linux hardware support since you're not on the bleeding marketing edge. 3) The nipple rocks.

    21. Re:Not a troll but.... by iggymanz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      compared to Microsoft's support for the home user? Heck, even having paid Microsoft support for servers at work means dialing Mumbai and getting read to from a script for a half hour until things get escalated. The internet solves my GNU/Linux and *BSD issues in under five minutes generally. *Never* had issue with open source software that myself plus the internet couldn't solve.

    22. Re:Not a troll but.... by Culture20 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I didn't buy it for mine, because $379 seems a bit egregious. If a manufacturing defect doesn't manifest in the first year, I don't see the point in paying for 2 more years of coverage. I use my laptop every day on the go, if something's screwy on it, it's gonna die young.

      Because Apple's bad cooling designs cause normal failure in 2-3 years even without manufacturing defects.

    23. Re:Not a troll but.... by mspohr · · Score: 4, Informative
      Having recently switched from Linux on a Dell laptop to a MacBook Air (which I bought because I fell in love with the design), I would have to say the the Mac UI definitely has a few oddities that just don't make sense (except in a historical context). My biggest gripe is the menubar on the top of the primary screen. I can understand that this made sense in 1984 when screens were small (and there was only one). Now that it is the 21st century, it drives me crazy to have to mouse up to the menubar at the top of the screen. I go absolutely batshit insane when I have a window on my secondary monitor and I need to use the menubar which is many thousands of pixels away at the top of the primary screen. The keyboard is missing a bunch of keys (a real delete key, pgup, pgdn, home, end, etc.). They also have this odd Command key (flower power) which seems to have taken over a lot of the functions of the Control key (but not all... I'm still figuring this out). Build quality seems fine but I'm not that happy with the chiclet keyboard. Touch pad is nice but I still prefer a mouse. I think I much prefer the Linux UI (any of them, all of them) and standard PC hardware.

      BTW, a good backup solution for Linux is "Back in Time" which is a nice shell built on rsync similar to Apple's Time machine. Linux on my Dell was just fine. Everything (including power management) "just worked".

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    24. Re:Not a troll but.... by JWSmythe · · Score: 3, Insightful

          Actually, no... But not in any sort of good way. They are x86 based, but only a few parts (CPU, hard drive, DVD) are PC parts.

          My girlfriend has a Mac Pro, dual quad core 2.8Ghz... For Christmas, I upgraded the memory. Apple's site had it listed for something like $800. I got it from Crucial for $200. From what I read, Crucial makes it for Apple, so that's a clue about their mark up.

          In the last month, according to the sensors, the power supply is overheating. Everything on forums, and according to Apple, is the power sensors are defective. The recommendation is to ignore them. Great. But we didn't pay attention to it until it started crashing. The fans are spinning fine, so it's something else. She has to leave a big desk fan blowing on it while it's on, to keep it from crashing.

          The price for a power supply? About $300. No, it's not ATX. I can't find an ATX adapter, and I can't find a way to adapt it. So I can try for about $300.

          The price for a motherboard? About $800 or so.

          Since normal diagnostics haven't shown anything, and it's out of Apple's warranty, I have to figure it out on my own... If I want to pick up parts to experiment with, I'll be spending about $1,000. I'd probably buy a new PS first. Knowing how things turn out, that won't be the fault. Even if I buy both to test, there's still a good chance it's something else, like a flaky CPU.

          To get a used one like it will cost a small fortune. Even still, a used one may have the same problems.

          I never believe in the invincible Apple platform. I know that components fail. Anything with overpriced components isn't worth it, no matter how shiny the packaging is, nor how much fanboys proclaim they are the greatest.

          And any fanboy wanting to argue this, send me a motherboard and power supply, so I can make her machine stable again. I'll send you a PC motherboard and power supply in exchange. :)

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    25. Re:Not a troll but.... by pwizard2 · · Score: 2

      I'm just saying that Linux has no dedicated support and likely never will.

      Fair enough if you're talking about home use, but Linux has tons of enterprise-level support from companies like Red Hat, Canonical, and Novell.

      --
      "It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
    26. Re:Not a troll but.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, at least you know his bias. So you can "correct" for it.
      With others, you don't know it. But it's still there. Because it is always there. Because no bias is a physically impossible thing for any life. No bias would mean no different from what already are your own world views. Which mean you could not possible learn anything new. Which means it would be utterly pointless self-masturbation only.
      Both our sense and our brain cannot process information without filtering and processing anyway. Our brain is even "worse" as it ONLY can process bias (from normal).

      So please stop with that "neutral vs bias" nonsense. All you do with that, is clouding your views and setting yourself up for traps and lies. Accept that everything is biased by definition. Even that which only went through your own senses and no other life-form. Accept that there is no neutrality. Learn that your own view is also just a theory of reality from YOUR point of observation, and doesn't have to be true for anyone else, let alone globally.

      And then you will suddenly notice, how anything, even FOX, becomes useful. Not in determining reality. That you can only do WITH YOUR OWN DAMN SENSES AND BRAIN! But for determining the goals and theories of reality of others! Especially your enemies. But also your allies.

      Which is a thousand times more useful than rejecting everything that doesn't fit your narrow world view because of that.

    27. Re:Not a troll but.... by rthille · · Score: 2

      Well, before I got laid off, I had ~$6.5K/month take home. So price really wasn't an issue, but quality and lack of hassle was. Being able to walk into the nearby Apple Store and get service, not deal with Windows or picking distros/etc (I run NetBSD on my home server and do Linux & FreeBSD for work, but want my primary system to 'just work') was worth a lot to me.

      --
      Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
    28. Re:Not a troll but.... by Sepodati · · Score: 2

      I have a newer Thinkpad Edge (year old, maybe...) that has some coming-out-of-sleep issues every once in a while. Other than that, it's been running Ubuntu perfectly since I got it. My Thinkpad T43p and Dell Mini have no issues with any of the mentioned concerns.

    29. Re:Not a troll but.... by catmistake · · Score: 2, Insightful

      even the entry-level MBP is what, 1200 or so ? It costs as much as two similar-spec PC laptops

      Here are the specs of that $1200 13" MBP.
      Take a look. Now... show us all this $600 laptop with similar specs.

      This notion that Apple's hardware is outrageously overpriced has been shown to be false time and again. Yes, there are $600 laptops, and they may match proc and RAM of Apple's hw, maybe even more RAM or more HD... but the specifications will not even be close. As with other hw manufacturers, so it is even with Apple: the margins are pretty thin. Once you actually match the specifications (and not just ignore the ones you don't like as though they were worthless), the difference in price will be less than $100.

      You also may want to factor in resell value, as Apple laptops are famous (notorious) for retaining obscene value many years later. You want to tell me why a 12" 1-1.5Ghz PowerPC Powerbook Apple stopped making in 2006 still sees average sales around $200? In this case, you can match the specs and maybe get 3 or 4 used PC laptops from 2003-6 for $200. You can... but you know as well as I they're going to be junk (unless they're a tank of a Thinkpad).

      --
      The Admin and the Engineer
    30. Re:Not a troll but.... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      I'm not sure what mythical age you're referring to when PCs didn't come pre-bundled with Windows.

      Well, there was the time PCs came pre-bundled with DOS... You haven't lived until you've messed with Wyse's DOS

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    31. Re:Not a troll but.... by ThorGod · · Score: 2

      Perhaps he does not want the comparatively walled (though curated?) garden of a mac.

      The "walled garden" phrase refers to how every application on an iPod/iPhone/iPad has to come from the App Store (same way with a BB Playbook, btw). *That's* a walled garden. Currently, I have htop, ipython, the KDE desktop (konquerer, kpat, etc etc), and much more installed on my OS 10.6 MacBook via macports. While iOS may be a "walled garden", Mac COMPUTERS are *not* a walled garden. Not any more than Windows is, at least.

      --
      PS: I don't reply to ACs.
    32. Re:Not a troll but.... by JWSmythe · · Score: 2

          Well, two problems.

          1) Crucial is a manufacturer for Apple. Same stuff, I just bought it farther up the supply line. And, I've bought thousands of units from them, without a single failure.

          2) The memory was purchased and installed before Christmas. Well, checking the tracking, I received it on 12/15/2010, and as I recall, I installed it the same day. So you are suggesting that after 10 months of operating, the memory is crap and caused the problem? Amazingly doubtful.

          And, looking at the difference between building out a Hackintosh, or letting her go straight Linux or Windows, I'm of the opinion that it isn't worth fixing the Apple.

          But, the prior message was the fact that Apple's are x86 machines now. They are, except with expensive parts that aren't compatible with anything else.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    33. Re:Not a troll but.... by dch24 · · Score: 2
      Looks like I can third that?

      I just did a side-by-side comparison of Lenovo, Dell, Apple, and System 76. These were my requirements:
      • Core i7-2960XM Extreme (8MB L3 Cache, 2.70GHz)
      • 1920 x 1080 or higher screen resolution
      • 15.9" or smaller
      • Manufacturer openly supports booting Linux

      You may say I'm not the typical user, but I'm typing this on a Macbook Pro. I'm a power user and I do indeed need the 2960XM Extreme 2.7GHz. I also have to have the portability of a 15" and be able to develop software and engineering solutions in remote locations. So yes, I'm not the typical user. But I am a typical professional, and I have found Macs to be the best tool for the job - in the past.

      About that manufacturer support one: since this is my primary work laptop, I'll only be buying one that I can send in for warranty service and overwrite the OS with Linux.

      The results:
      Dell: They have a paltry list of "no OS" options. Most of their laptops top out at a Core i7 2.50 GHz. Fail.
      Apple: They don't support any other OS's. I'll compromise - Mac OS is based on BSD. But they also top out at a Core i7 2.50 GHz, and the screen is only 1680 x 1050. Oh, and to get even just those two specs: $2,549! Fail!
      Lenovo: has a No OS special offer but also tops out at a Core i7 2.50 GHz.
      System 76: Right here.

    34. Re:Not a troll but.... by flyneye · · Score: 2

      Not to detract from your Big Blue commercial.My fly by night Pavilion laptop runs Ubuntu Studio slickly. My experience with Ubuntu forums is excellent. Debian, from which Ubuntu springeth, hath billions in dollars in people time, coding,hacking and sundry work. We could put out a commercial for any linux and laptop for any number of reasons.

                  My advice is research some laptops over at http://www.linux-laptop.net/ and get a feel for what you like/can afford, then find a linux that suits your needs. http://www.livecdlist.com/ is a fun easy way to browse/test/fondle various distros before commiting to tweaking an install. Tests your hardware pretty fair, but to their credit most drivers not included in a distro can be downloaded and compiled if you just gotta have a certain distro.
      http://linmodems.technion.ac.il/compiling.html should take some mystification out of it if you need it.

                If you really wanna do the linux/bsd/*nix lifestyle, poking around, customizing, tweaking are all part of it. Support is netwide anytime.

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    35. Re:Not a troll but.... by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 2

      sudo apt-get install scarlet johansson

      cd /home/bed

      sudo make babies

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    36. Re:Not a troll but.... by cubex · · Score: 2

      Quite Simple, The "mythical" age when PCs didn't come pre-bundled with Windows was the 80's and before. If you go a bit further back to the 70's a lot of early computers even came with bios source code. A lot of those early systems came with CP/M. On top of that there were the Amiga, Ataris, TRS-80s and other earlier machines. The "Dark Ages" started around 1993. That's when Radio Shack started the whole bundle-with-windows thing. Commodore never did as far as I know, but of course they died in 1994. I think we are slowly emerging out of the "Dark Ages of PCs". I'd say the bad period spanned 1993 to 2000, roughly speaking.

    37. Re:Not a troll but.... by object404 · · Score: 2

      yeah, run the reiserFS instead of HFS+

      Ya dude! That's a real killerFS !

      --
      http://twitter.com/object404
  2. ThinkPads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    ThinkPad + Ubuntu will probably work pretty well for you. ThinkPads have tended to have good linux support for a very long time. Check out ThinkWiki.org

    Of course, they still come with Windows (you used to be able to order them without, but I think they have done away with that now) but they still work pretty good with Ubuntu.

    1. Re:ThinkPads by sunderland56 · · Score: 2

      I don't have much experience with the post-IBM models, though, so I can't claim things haven't changed.

      You can still easily buy factory-refurbished IBM ones at bargain prices.

  3. http://www.system76.com/ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.system76.com/

    System76 is the closest your going to get to a Apple experience with Linux.
    Pre-installed so you don't have to muck around with drivers
    Comprehensive testing and configuration of the hardware by professionals.
    Support and documentation.
    Company officially supports Linux.
    Provides custom driver bundles to make upgrading effortless as possible.
    etc etc.

    You will get NONE of those things if you go with a Windows system from a large OEM and then try to install Linux on it yourself. You will be your only source for OS support and hardware configuration. You can have Ubuntu forums and mailing lists, but to be honest the chances of you getting useful answers is about 1 in 4.

    1. Re:http://www.system76.com/ by Rastor · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yeah, it would be good to get it from a supplier who has actually heard of Linux. So System 76, or maybe Emperor Linux or The Linux Laptop or Linux-Certified or ZaReason etc.

    2. Re:http://www.system76.com/ by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 2

      Maybe it's time you checked out some other distros?

      Could be that I'm just lucky, but I've installed Linux (most often OpenSUSE) on about a dozen $random $laptops over the last few years, and I honestly can't remember the last time that hardware recognition and driver installation wasn't handled by the installer. No, I take that back--I do remember: the last time I had to install a driver manually was in 2008, when I needed to hack/build/install atheros drivers (as well as wpa_supplicant) for a Broadcom wifi card with a really weird chipset (for an Acer laptop that I picked up on the cheap in Thailand, not normally available elsewhere).

      The most recent example is a HP laptop I bought new last year. Core i7, Nvidia GeForce card, some wifi card and webcam I'd never heard of before, HDMI out, support for dual monitors, etc. Everything "just worked". Only "issue" I had with the drivers was having to choose between the OS and Nvidia-proprietary drivers for the video card. (I chose the latter; feel free to flame me for being tainted.) And Yast takes care of the the updates quite nicely.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    3. Re:http://www.system76.com/ by seandiggity · · Score: 4, Informative

      Typing this on a 4-year-old System76 now. Great hardware, and it's important to support GNU/Linux vendors.

      System76 has an update tool that will install anything specific to their hardware as a .deb package, so you shouldn't have any driver problems as long as you only upgrade your distro when System76 says they support it. For some time now, however, I haven't needed any updates directly from System76, as driver support for all my hardware is now available in the default repos.

      --
      Geeks like to think that they can ignore politics, you can leave politics alone, but politics won't leave you alone.-rms
    4. Re:http://www.system76.com/ by Dell+Brandstone · · Score: 2

      Not to be a nitpicker, but that site looks like a cheesy rip-off of Apple... Why do companies insist on doing this? Be original. Personally, I like the Asus laptops with a Costco return policy. 2 years only, but no hassle.

      Look at this picture, particularly the bezel right below the screen, reflecting the keyboard... what is with all that warping????
      http://www.system76.com/product_images/serval-8f6a631ac4a249b.png

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  4. There are actual lists ya know by jmorris42 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Ubuntu has a list of Certified Hardware for ya. But I have yet to get a Thinkpad at least 90% running. I don't have the fingerprint reader on my X200s working with Fedora but everything else works, including the dock. The boss's Thinkpad T520 runs Ubuntu and has everything working except audio through the dock, but dual DVI displays on the dock do work.

    Of course once you get a laptop working expect updates to constantly break things until you just get tired of rolling back failed updates and just stop, only taking critical security updates you can't live without.

    It is worse with Linux because almost no OEMs are involved in keeping it working, most aren't even involved in initially getting it going so folks have to guess. But raise your hand if you haven't had to roll back a driver or update on that 'other' popular OS. Last week I had to roll back a mouse driver on a Dell laptop to get the pointer working.

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    Democrat delenda est
  5. Why not virtualize? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You could also run Linux within a Virtual Machine on your Mac Laptop ... thereby you get the best of both worlds. If you want to run on bare metal, several Linux distributions are known to run on Mac hardware as well, so you could keep your laptop and just change the operating system.

    Now, having said that, generally speaking you can't go wrong with Dell or Lenovo. I've been to many Linux conferences put on by RedHat and Novell / SuSE/ Attachmate, and I've seem more of those laptops running Linux than anything else out there. Dell offers Linux on some of its laptops (either Ubuntu or RedHat, depending on the model), Not sure on Lenovo, and there are some HP laptops that are offered with SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop.

    Good luck...

  6. My $0.02 by someSnarkyBastard · · Score: 4, Informative

    System76 and ZaReason are both good dedicated Linux laptop companies. Personally, I have a Dell n-series laptop .

  7. Biggest issue, IME: GPU by CannonballHead · · Score: 2

    The biggest problem I typically run into with installing Linux, nowadays, is the GPU.

    The open source drivers are okay for most things. The proprietary drivers (currently, I have an nVidia based laptop for work and am running RHEL Workstation 6.1) tend to have issues.

    For example, my current laptop, a Lenovo W520, cannot boot RHEL 6.1 if I have full ACPI enabled as well as the discrete graphics card enabled (BIOS switch; has both integrated Intel GPU and a discrete nVidia GPU). With some kernel parameter and xorg.conf finesse, I have a workaround with little issues... sleep works, brightness controls, battery monitor, etc.

    Sound, integrated webcam, wifi, etc., all work fine.

    If you don't care about GPU power and are just going to get one with integrated graphics anyways and use the open source drivers (like nouveau), that may make it easier.

    There are a variety of online sites that have lists of laptops along with their various distro compatibility results. In general, I've had good results with Dell computers... and I actually haven't really experienced a wireless card issue in a while, nor a sleep/hibernate issue (and "sleeping when I close the lid" is easily changed; I like it not to sleep when I do that, so I disabled it).

  8. System 76 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    I purchased a System 76 laptop a few months ago after being on MacBooks for 7+ years and haven't looked back. My requirements weren't the same as yours so you might want to contact their customer support to ask specific questions, which I found to be responsive and friendly when I was researching them.

  9. These issues are largely gone. by reiscw · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This weekend, I went to Office Depot, bought an HP 2000 laptop for about $329, brought it home, backed up the windows image, and installed Ubuntu 11.10. All of the conditions of his post are met. Battery life is good, fan is quiet, sound works, closing the laptop lid causes the machine to sleep, etc. Not sure what he means about backup - I use grsync which is easy enough to back up my home directory to a flash drive (primitive, I know, but I've never been burnt). No special configurations were necessary to install Ubuntu. It's funny that people keep bringing up WiFi. The last time I had problems with WiFi on Linux was a Broadcom chipset on Ubuntu 8.04. After that, everything has worked without issue (and I could get it working by extracting / copying firmware). Sometimes I think a lot of the Linux complaints about sound and wifi are out of date.

    I'm not sure what "AppleCare" is unless it's some sort of extended warranty / replacement program. Unless you're very unlucky, a decent laptop is cheap enough that you're better off self-insuring. While it might make sense for an Apple product (I'm being generous) I don't think it makes sense for a basic laptop workstation.

  10. Fan noise? by devleopard · · Score: 4, Informative

    " ... minimum cooling fan noise ..."

    I have a 2011 15" MacBook Pro. The new i7 quad-core + new GPU gets crazy hot. Often the temp gauge jumps to 80 degrees C + and the fans spin up. Those 2 fans maxed out at 6200 RPM is anything but quiet.

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    The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.
    1. Re:Fan noise? by cashman73 · · Score: 2

      You might want to check that out. I have the same system and don't notice those problems at all.

  11. SLASHDOT...SERIOUSLY STOP COMMENTING AT THE BOTTOM by TheDarkener · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It gets really annoying. 'I presume he wants working wifi, too'... ok, how about a working video chipset? If you're presuming, and you live in a 3rd world country, maybe you'd presume he wanted a modem.

    If this is dude's submission, don't mess with it, it just doesn't help the guy get the answers he needs. Besides, most wifi chipsets I've used recently have been pretty damn good.

    More-so I am aggravated at the editorial nature of these footer comments in general. Nerds don't like editorials, they like facts. Maybe that's my assumption, but I've been reading Slashdot for 11 years now. It. Gets. flippin'. Old.

    I probably should have ranted on some other, more deserving article footer comment...oh well. I love you guys

    --
    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  12. I find this amusing by Osgeld · · Score: 2

    You are amazed that the computer goes to sleep when the lid closes and sound cards magically work, but yet you want to get a linux distro? What is this like your second computer ever?

  13. Stick with a Macbook by John+Bresnahan · · Score: 3, Informative

    I used to run various versions of Linux on a couple different ThinkPads, and over the last few years (2006 - 2008 or so), each new release seemed less solid than the one before. I would spend days or weeks trying to hunt down fixes for various problems (sleep wouldn't work, WiFi wouldn't work, audio wouldn't work, etc.).

    Finally, in 2009, I bought a MacBook Pro (17", 8GB RAM), and used that as my primary machine. Best decision I've made in a long time. I wanted one laptop that I could use for everything, and with VMs running Windows 8 and whatever flavor of Linux I feel like playing with at the moment, I can develop and run any software for any platform.

    I might feel differently if I were a gamer, but I'm not, so this is the best setup. Since you're coming from a Linux system, I'm guessing that any games you might play are already available on the Mac.

  14. Re:SLASHDOT...SERIOUSLY STOP COMMENTING AT THE BOT by bmo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    >I probably should have ranted on some other, more deserving article footer comment

    Nah, this one deserves it. The footer is a backhanded slap at WiFi support for Linux when it's greatly improved over the years. When I installed Ubuntu 10.04 on this laptop, which was current when I bought it, everything worked, including the touch panel below the screen and the infrared remote.

    Trolling in the summary is bad form, and yes, it did get old a long time ago.

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    BMO

  15. Re:SLASHDOT...SERIOUSLY STOP COMMENTING AT THE BOT by Bob9113 · · Score: 4, Informative

    oh well. I love you guys

    A worthwhile point that made me smile -- always remember, Slashdot, we wouldn't bitch about you if we didn't care. :)

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    Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
  16. Re:Power management can be problematic by rrohbeck · · Score: 2

    That power regression is easily fixed with pcie_aspm=force. I have yet to hear about a laptop that has trouble with that.
    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTYwNA

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    thegodmovie.com - watch it
  17. Re:Walled Garden by Gizzmonic · · Score: 3, Informative

    The whole "walled garden" metaphor applies to iOS products, not Mac OS X. You can download and install whatever you want on a Mac. Including Linux or Windows if that floats your boat.

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    (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
  18. Updates break things at random by jmorris42 · · Score: 3, Informative

    > Is this really your current experience?

    Yup, take the two examples I noted. The Thinkpad 200s I'm typing this on was installed with Fedora 12. During it's errata stream the kernel broke undocking. So I had to roll back and hold.... all the way through the F13 and F14 cycles I got to stay midway in F12 and hope a remote exploit didn't force me to upgrade anyway and just shutdown and reboot instead of undocking. The bugzilla is now closed since things started working with F15. So I could chose stay with a totally unsupported OS or GNOME3. I'd much preferred F14 so now I run XFCE on F15.

    The Boss's Thinkpad can't update Ubuntu anymore unless great care is taken to ensiure Xorg doesn't update lest the second DVI port stop working and of course a distro update is out of the question because of the GNOME problem, so she will be stuck on 11.04 until that situation improves.

    I have a machine at home with a PATA RAID card that hasn't worked with new kernels for years. RHEL4/(clone of) is rock solid though. Stuff doesn't officially go depracted very often while examples are still in the wild, but most stuff will eventually stop working unless a lot of people use it or a key kernel dev uses it.

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    Democrat delenda est
  19. Totally agree. Linux Mint for the win. by crhylove · · Score: 2

    Have to agree with above poster. I've installed Linux Mint on literally dozens of notebooks and netbooks recently, and only had a problem once on some rather dated hardware. Most of the new stuff JUST WORKS pretty much out of the box. There's some configuration or tweaking to do usually, but nothing a competent 10 year old couldn't muster (IE changing resolution, connecting to a wifi router with a WEP password).

    --
    I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
  20. Re:SLASHDOT...SERIOUSLY STOP COMMENTING AT THE BOT by onefriedrice · · Score: 2

    >I probably should have ranted on some other, more deserving article footer comment

    Nah, this one deserves it. The footer is a backhanded slap at WiFi support for Linux when it's greatly improved over the years.

    -- BMO

    Thank goodness for BSD.

    ducks

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    This author takes full ownership and responsibility for the unpopular opinions outlined above.
  21. Honestly Gentoo by Murdoch5 · · Score: 2

    I know it would take time to configure but you could get it tuned to exactly how you like and then never have to worry or wonder about it again. Gentoo is bar none the best distro on the market.

  22. Virtual Machine on a Macbook Pro by Acheron · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I would recommend buying yourself a Macbook Pro, getting VMWare Fusion or if you're low on funds after buying the MB, then VirtualBox, and running a Linux VM. You get the solid quality of the MBPro hardware and the standardised hardware environment that a VM offers and the resulting good linux driver behaviour.

    I use VirtualBox on my 2010 MBPro and it works like a charm.

  23. I believe he needs my username. by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 5, Funny

    I believe he needs my username

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    There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
  24. Cutting to the chase... by BrokenHalo · · Score: 2

    So please stop with that "neutral vs bias" nonsense.

    OK, that suits me fine.

    Until a few weeks ago, I had a MacBook that suited my requirements quite well when the heavy lifting capabilities of my (Linux-based) desktop machine were not required. I don't give a flying fuck about any religion regarding Apple, I just like to have a *nix-y environment to work in from the command-line (when the mood takes me) and a GUI that works when I feel like being a drone with a rodent or trackpad.

    That MacBook has now died messily, and I am disinclined to spend much on a replacement. In the next day or two, I anticipate that I will be buying an Asus U31F-11YR-RX132V machine (a compact and lightweight machine easily available from local bricks-and-mortar shops) , on which I intend to set up an implementation of Arch linux. I'll add a post here if I hit any roadblocks.