Ok, I know this isn't definitive, but I have an old server that is running 24/7 on a relatively old Seagate hard drive: ST340810A. It's a 40 gig IDE drive and it's been running 24/7 since around 2002 or so, so say it's around 12 years old.
I have another much older hard drive running on my Amiga 500. It's a Quantum LPS52s, not positive but I think it's 1990 era. It doesn't get turned on very often, but I usually fire it up at least once a month and it functions with no problems. It's over 20 years old at any rate.
I have a bunch of other old computers that still run. Their hard drives have got to be at least 10 years old. At least the 40 gig hard drives seem to have good longevity. The newer stuff, yeah they don't seem to have the same longevity. In particular laptop hard drives seem to fail a lot faster, no doubt due to the jolting they get when moved around.
OK, I'm from Canada so this may not be helpful... but I've been using ufile.ca and using the browser to file my taxes for the last several years. I use various Linux distros for this, mostly vector linux. Online Banking is the same.
Yes, we don't really have a lack of choice. We have more choices now than ever. Many of the old computer manuals have been scanned and converted to pdf. If you wanted to still program on an IBM 1130 computer you can via the simh emulator.
I'm not as old as you (only 47), and I started using computers in what I would call the "middle era" which was in the late 1970's. What I've noticed since then is that the toolchain keeps changing and of course one has to shift with it. One thing has remained constant: the programmer needs a full sized keyboard. You just can't get that with these new-fangled hand-held computers.
Could you imagine anyone trying to program in APL on one of those hand-helds?
I should point out that there was no Unix for IBM 1130. The 1130 ran an OS called Disk Monitor System which I used when I learned APL\1130. It's definitely from the pre-Unix era.
Quite Simple,
The "mythical" age when PCs didn't come pre-bundled with Windows was the 80's and before. If you go a bit further back to the 70's a lot of early computers even came with bios source code. A lot of those early systems came with CP/M.
On top of that there were the Amiga, Ataris, TRS-80s and other earlier machines. The "Dark Ages" started around 1993. That's when Radio Shack started the whole bundle-with-windows thing. Commodore never did as far as I know, but of course they died in 1994.
I think we are slowly emerging out of the "Dark Ages of PCs". I'd say the bad period spanned 1993 to 2000, roughly speaking.
I'm running firefox on machines with 512 meg and 256 meg memory sizes. Versions are 3.6.20 on the 512 meg machine running vector linux and 3.5.10 on freebsd 8.1 on the 256 meg machine. I can report that browsing on both machines works well.
Yes, I liked Tom Baker too.
I also liked Hartnell, and after a while I started to like Peter Davison too.
Didn't like like Tennant as much, he over-acted.
The other ones I've barely seen so it wouldn't be fair to form an opinion on them,
but Tom Baker and William Hartnell are my two favourites. Hartnell brought some
dignity to the role that was rather lacking afterwards.
5 years, pfffft.
I have a working Quantum Maverick 230 meg (that's right, MEG) drive that is at least 15 years old.
My server?
12 years old Tyan mobo, and I'm on my 3rd or 4th power supply. One of the hard drives inside the server is from the year 2000, so 10 or 11 years old. I also have a working 486 motherboard which was from 1993.
So I think this stuff can last a lot longer than 5 years. I have a 6809 cpu from 1983 and it works. Some of the Commodore PETs from the late 1970's still work and I'm told their cassette tapes can still load.
Why is it "PC"? Microsoft doesn't sell computers. PC just means Personal Computer so it should be "I'm Windows" or "I'm a Windows user".
The ad doesn't convey any useful information, but a lot of ads don't. It's hard to imagine it would effect anyone's purchasing decision.
I read the May 13th announcement and naturally I tried it. After a dozen attempts I gave up. Some javascript didn't work as expected, no big deal. At least the Canadian government is aware that people want to use Linux.
Another thing that doesn't work too well is watching movie trailers. I usually end up poking through more javascript, figure out the real URL and wget the file. I'm sure if enough people complain things will change. CBC is supporting Linux more as well.
Once in Staples just for a laugh I asked the guy there which scanners supported linux. With a scowl on his face he said "I don't support Mac and I don't support Linux".
I told a taxi driver once that I don't use any Microsoft products and he said "I have to use it, I need MSN to stay in contact with my friends".
Most people I've talked to have no interest in learning Linux and I don't think that it has anything to do with the relative merits of Windows or Linux. It has more to do with saturation. It's not like you can go to your local computer store and check out Majesty Gold or whatever for Linux (at least not around where I live). Microsoft is in the schools, it's in the stores and it's on TV.
Think about it... most people who go to the store and buy a computer are going to get Windows on their computer. They might download firefox. One people in Staples actually said "I use Microsoft everything to make sure it's all compatible". With this kind of mindset I don't think much is going to change. The masses will continue to use Windows and the techies will continue to use Linux or BSD.
I'd even go as far to say the lock-in is getting worse. In the 80's I could go to a local computer store and buy a Tandy, Amiga or a Macintosh. Sure, it's all proprietary but at least people had choices.
Getting back to browsers for a moment, I think firefox is great (adblock is very nice) and I do see people using it. There's a good firefox community who help each other and it is catching on. To take the online census in Canada I did have to use IE on a Windows computer. Some script they used did not work, but the government did say they were working
on making their online service more compatible. I did write them an email to complain about it. It's things like that which pull people back into using IE.
I'm not going to argue the point about IE, I avoid using it 99.9% of the time. In fact I did my income tax for the first time using a web-based service via firefox. The only time I used IE this year was for the census.
The oldest CDR I have was created March 31, 1997 so it's almost 9 years old and it still works fine. On the other side of the coin my collection of Amiga Fish Disks dating back to 1988 are not readable. Any code I wrote that I thought was important I printed out... this would be mostly C and Basic listings and the oldest of those dates back to 1981. If I really wanted to I could type in or try to OCR the listings (my experiments using gocr haven't been too great unfortunately) and run the code on a emulator.
My story is similar. I used to program on SCO Unix System V (and before than on Xenix). Later on I drifted out of the Unix world and was selling doing consulting and selling computers. When Windows 95 came out I hated it but everyone seemed to want Win95 on their computers. At approximately the same time I tried Slackware but couldn't get the cdrom to work. I also ordered Minix from Prentice Hall but the disks were unreadable. I even ran Beos for a while and it looked very interesting. In the late 80's I was using AmigaDOS for personal use.
Anyways fast forward to 2003 and I tried Redhat 8. Had to mess around to get my Video Card to get it to work. I was impressed enough with Redhat 8 to stick with it and I don't use Windows for personal use. I have sold a few Linux boxes as home computers. Now I run my own web/mail server and I love it. Even play some games RT2, Heretic 2, Rocksndiamonds, etc. I agree KDE is bloated but it does the job.
All my hardware works, HP Scanjet 5200C, Kodak digital camera, Raven printer, APC Ups etc.
Last but not least it's fun to program again, like it was in the c64 and Amiga days. Windows programming was a royal pain and I never liked it. Linux does what I need, end of story.
> Tell me again how great linux driver support is.
Really it's not bad. You're right, it doesn't support everything.
Around 1987 I was using Unix System V and I must be honest and admit I didn't fully appreciate it.
Then I started with Slackware 2.1 and I couldn't get my cdrom to work... this was late 1995.
Finally in early 2003 I jumped back in with Redhat 8 and after a while I got all my hardware to work except my HP 4400c scanner. Evidently the linux driver for that scanner is still a work in progress. My solution was to buy an older used scanner from ebay, a 5200C connect via USB.
Currently I'm using Fedora Core 1.
Uptime: 21:35:16 up 128 days.
See the proof at: http://maxhost.org
Here is the hardware I'm now using:
Tyan Tiger 100 Motherboard
Kodak DC215 Zoom Digital Camera (using DB9 serial port)
HP Scanjet 5200C Scanner (using USB)
APC ES 725 UPS (using USB)
Had to fight with the ol' Kodak a bit but everything works now. I'm now permanently in the Linux/BSD camp and I can't see myself going back to Windows for personal use.
I tell everyone who is tired of Microsoft to try Linux but first hit http://linuxcompatible.org
especially if you are getting ready to buy a new unit.
I was at the point I was willing to fight to the bitter end to get everything working, but fortunately it wasn't that hard.
End result: a happy ending.
Slashdot Mirror
Ok, I know this isn't definitive, but I have an old server that is running 24/7 on a relatively old Seagate hard drive: ST340810A. It's a 40 gig IDE drive and it's been running 24/7 since around 2002 or so, so say it's around 12 years old. I have another much older hard drive running on my Amiga 500. It's a Quantum LPS52s, not positive but I think it's 1990 era. It doesn't get turned on very often, but I usually fire it up at least once a month and it functions with no problems. It's over 20 years old at any rate. I have a bunch of other old computers that still run. Their hard drives have got to be at least 10 years old. At least the 40 gig hard drives seem to have good longevity. The newer stuff, yeah they don't seem to have the same longevity. In particular laptop hard drives seem to fail a lot faster, no doubt due to the jolting they get when moved around.
OK, I'm from Canada so this may not be helpful... but I've been using ufile.ca and using the browser to file my taxes for the last several years. I use various Linux distros for this, mostly vector linux. Online Banking is the same.
Yes, we don't really have a lack of choice. We have more choices now than ever. Many of the old computer manuals have been scanned and converted to pdf. If you wanted to still program on an IBM 1130 computer you can via the simh emulator. I'm not as old as you (only 47), and I started using computers in what I would call the "middle era" which was in the late 1970's. What I've noticed since then is that the toolchain keeps changing and of course one has to shift with it. One thing has remained constant: the programmer needs a full sized keyboard. You just can't get that with these new-fangled hand-held computers. Could you imagine anyone trying to program in APL on one of those hand-helds? I should point out that there was no Unix for IBM 1130. The 1130 ran an OS called Disk Monitor System which I used when I learned APL\1130. It's definitely from the pre-Unix era.
Should cat have a gui?
Quite Simple, The "mythical" age when PCs didn't come pre-bundled with Windows was the 80's and before. If you go a bit further back to the 70's a lot of early computers even came with bios source code. A lot of those early systems came with CP/M. On top of that there were the Amiga, Ataris, TRS-80s and other earlier machines. The "Dark Ages" started around 1993. That's when Radio Shack started the whole bundle-with-windows thing. Commodore never did as far as I know, but of course they died in 1994. I think we are slowly emerging out of the "Dark Ages of PCs". I'd say the bad period spanned 1993 to 2000, roughly speaking.
I'm running firefox on machines with 512 meg and 256 meg memory sizes. Versions are 3.6.20 on the 512 meg machine running vector linux and 3.5.10 on freebsd 8.1 on the 256 meg machine. I can report that browsing on both machines works well.
Yes, I liked Tom Baker too. I also liked Hartnell, and after a while I started to like Peter Davison too. Didn't like like Tennant as much, he over-acted. The other ones I've barely seen so it wouldn't be fair to form an opinion on them, but Tom Baker and William Hartnell are my two favourites. Hartnell brought some dignity to the role that was rather lacking afterwards.
5 years, pfffft. I have a working Quantum Maverick 230 meg (that's right, MEG) drive that is at least 15 years old. My server? 12 years old Tyan mobo, and I'm on my 3rd or 4th power supply. One of the hard drives inside the server is from the year 2000, so 10 or 11 years old. I also have a working 486 motherboard which was from 1993. So I think this stuff can last a lot longer than 5 years. I have a 6809 cpu from 1983 and it works. Some of the Commodore PETs from the late 1970's still work and I'm told their cassette tapes can still load.
Why is it "PC"? Microsoft doesn't sell computers. PC just means Personal Computer so it should be "I'm Windows" or "I'm a Windows user". The ad doesn't convey any useful information, but a lot of ads don't. It's hard to imagine it would effect anyone's purchasing decision.
I read the May 13th announcement and naturally I tried it. After a dozen attempts I gave up. Some javascript didn't work as expected, no big deal. At least the Canadian government is aware that people want to use Linux. Another thing that doesn't work too well is watching movie trailers. I usually end up poking through more javascript, figure out the real URL and wget the file. I'm sure if enough people complain things will change. CBC is supporting Linux more as well.
Once in Staples just for a laugh I asked the guy there which scanners supported linux. With a scowl on his face he said "I don't support Mac and I don't support Linux".
I told a taxi driver once that I don't use any Microsoft products and he said "I have to use it, I need MSN to stay in contact with my friends".
Most people I've talked to have no interest in learning Linux and I don't think that it has anything to do with the relative merits of Windows or Linux. It has more to do with saturation. It's not like you can go to your local computer store and check out Majesty Gold or whatever for Linux (at least not around where I live). Microsoft is in the schools, it's in the stores and it's on TV.
Think about it... most people who go to the store and buy a computer are going to get Windows on their computer. They might download firefox. One people in Staples actually said "I use Microsoft everything to make sure it's all compatible". With this kind of mindset I don't think much is going to change. The masses will continue to use Windows and the techies will continue to use Linux or BSD.
I'd even go as far to say the lock-in is getting worse. In the 80's I could go to a local computer store and buy a Tandy, Amiga or a Macintosh. Sure, it's all proprietary but at least people had choices.
Getting back to browsers for a moment, I think firefox is great (adblock is very nice) and I do see people using it. There's a good firefox community who help each other and it is catching on. To take the online census in Canada I did have to use IE on a Windows computer. Some script they used did not work, but the government did say they were working on making their online service more compatible. I did write them an email to complain about it. It's things like that which pull people back into using IE.
I'm not going to argue the point about IE, I avoid using it 99.9% of the time. In fact I did my income tax for the first time using a web-based service via firefox. The only time I used IE this year was for the census.
The oldest CDR I have was created March 31, 1997 so it's almost 9 years old and it still works fine. On the other side of the coin my collection of Amiga Fish Disks dating back to 1988 are not readable. Any code I wrote that I thought was important I printed out... this would be mostly C and Basic listings and the oldest of those dates back to 1981. If I really wanted to I could type in or try to OCR the listings (my experiments using gocr haven't been too great unfortunately) and run the code on a emulator.
The 5 year figure sounds far too low.
My story is similar. I used to program on SCO Unix System V (and before than on Xenix). Later on I drifted out of the Unix world and was selling doing consulting and selling computers. When Windows 95 came out I hated it but everyone seemed to want Win95 on their computers. At approximately the same time I tried Slackware but couldn't get the cdrom to work. I also ordered Minix from Prentice Hall but the disks were unreadable. I even ran Beos for a while and it looked very interesting. In the late 80's I was using AmigaDOS for personal use. Anyways fast forward to 2003 and I tried Redhat 8. Had to mess around to get my Video Card to get it to work. I was impressed enough with Redhat 8 to stick with it and I don't use Windows for personal use. I have sold a few Linux boxes as home computers. Now I run my own web/mail server and I love it. Even play some games RT2, Heretic 2, Rocksndiamonds, etc. I agree KDE is bloated but it does the job. All my hardware works, HP Scanjet 5200C, Kodak digital camera, Raven printer, APC Ups etc. Last but not least it's fun to program again, like it was in the c64 and Amiga days. Windows programming was a royal pain and I never liked it. Linux does what I need, end of story.
> Tell me again how great linux driver support is. Really it's not bad. You're right, it doesn't support everything. Around 1987 I was using Unix System V and I must be honest and admit I didn't fully appreciate it. Then I started with Slackware 2.1 and I couldn't get my cdrom to work... this was late 1995. Finally in early 2003 I jumped back in with Redhat 8 and after a while I got all my hardware to work except my HP 4400c scanner. Evidently the linux driver for that scanner is still a work in progress. My solution was to buy an older used scanner from ebay, a 5200C connect via USB. Currently I'm using Fedora Core 1. Uptime: 21:35:16 up 128 days. See the proof at: http://maxhost.org Here is the hardware I'm now using: Tyan Tiger 100 Motherboard Kodak DC215 Zoom Digital Camera (using DB9 serial port) HP Scanjet 5200C Scanner (using USB) APC ES 725 UPS (using USB) Had to fight with the ol' Kodak a bit but everything works now. I'm now permanently in the Linux/BSD camp and I can't see myself going back to Windows for personal use. I tell everyone who is tired of Microsoft to try Linux but first hit http://linuxcompatible.org especially if you are getting ready to buy a new unit. I was at the point I was willing to fight to the bitter end to get everything working, but fortunately it wasn't that hard. End result: a happy ending.