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HPV Vaccine Recommended For Boys
necro81 writes "An advisory committee to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention will soon issue new recommendations that pre-adolescent boys be vaccinated against Human Papilloma Virus (HPV). The disease is sexually transmitted, endemic in the sexually active, can cause genital warts in both men and women, and is the primary cause of cervical cancer, which kills hundreds of thousands of women globally each year. The three-dose vaccination has been available for several years and is already recommended for pre-adolescent girls. Vaccinating boys should further reduce transmission."
This is no surprise, but I am glad it's been approved. Once again science making the world safer.
Science isn't about asking "why?", it's about asking "why not?". Cave Johnson, I'm done here.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
What a sensible idea.(Incidentally, males aren't strictly carriers; but penile cancer is much less common than cervical for some reason)
If we had celebrities coming out and saying "I think the vaccine could have more side effects than the disease..."
We'd still have polio...
measles...
mumps..
Rubella...
Tuberculosis
Whooping Cough...
and a bunch of other nasty diseases flying around like the common cold. I think many parents (atleast around here in Northern California, think you need 200 years of concrete data, or Oprah to claim a vaccine is needed).
The whole reason why HPV is so wide spread in the first place is because discouraging sexual activity doesn't actually prohibit or actually lessen it, it just makes people more ignorant to it. The only thing that actually works to curb sexual activity is education and the only thing that curbs the spread of disease is to prepare your children to be cautious and safe. You are suggesting ignoring the mice that are already there instead of buying the cats or even the traps to deal with them in the first place.
I got here through a series of tubes
Can we invent vaccines for sexually transmitted diseases that get transmitted sexually? Imagine the distribution efficacy and cost benefits we could realize with STVs!
I think the argument is most of the adult population already has HPV so it's too late for them.
Nothing, it never worked. Some percentage of teenagers were always sexually active. Actually, teen pregnancy is much lower than it was in the past and people are marrying later.
I got the HPV vaccine last year as a male at the age of 26. There is the overall thought that if you are sexually active (ie, not a non-infected virgin with another non-infected virgin), you will have obtained some strain of HPV (there are more than 150, most are relatively benign). Your body can "clear" most of these, and they will never be an issue. I thought it was still appropriate for me to get the vaccine, as there are some benefits:
Vaccination was uncovered by my insurance (gee, thanks!) but I figured it was worth the $510, to protect myself and any partners (should I be a carrier).
Last I heard they didn't have a way to test men for HPV. Men are almost, if not always, asymptomatic and wouldn't have enough viral material accessible to test for it. Have they refined this? How much testing has been done to show the effectiveness of this on boys? I'm all for this vaccine and I'd get it myself if I'm not already a carrier, but it's expensive and unless they can effectively test for this it's possibly just a cash grab.
OTOH, SEX!
On one hand it will allow many couples to have children that may not have otherwise due to cancer, which most agree is a good thing
OTOH, SEX!
And really isn't that what is all about? Preventing anyone from having sex outside a state defined and mandated relationship. We can't have people going around enjoying themselves without the approval of the feds, can we?
I was amazed at the opposition to HPV for vaccines. Do people really think that kids alone in the backyard are going to limit themselves to mutual handjobs because they are afraid they might give each other cancer? Do they really think that kids are going to be more likely to want to see what all the fuss is about because they have the vaccine? Sure I understand the implicit idea is that the vaccine assumes multiple partners over a life time, but isn't that the status quo that is modeled? Newt Gingrich has slept with at least three women. If marriage is between one man and one women, and we promise god that we will be faithful untile death do us part, isn't any number more than one kind of morally equivalent.
One hesitates to suggest that if this was a vaccine against prostate cancer there would not be so much discussion.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Recommendation is one thing. Mandate is another altogether. I don't have a problem with somebody recommending something. I have a problem with somebody taking over your decisions about your body and your health (and yes, I think an individual rights are more important than the society, because individual is the smallest minority).
You can't handle the truth.
Thanks. That's PRECISELY the type of answer I was looking for. Very informative. They really oughtta cover those for males then. Glad to see the medical community is finally accepting what needs to be done, but what's in it for the insurance companies?
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
Yes, they are having more sex at a younger age, don't kid yourself that is what TV programming got us.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Your mind has obviously been infected with the Slashdot Paranoid Meme Virus, but this raises an interesting point. The HPV vaccine is the most expensive one made. It is a complicated vaccine to make, took some time to create (20 years) but apparently the manufacturer had a different metric for determining price:
Gardasil took more than 20 years to develop, is complex to manufacture, and must be constantly refrigerated, but that’s not why it’s so expensive. Instead, Merck calculated the price based on the money the vaccine will save the entire health-care system—and the CDC approved the price, as it does with other vaccines. “We based the price on a number of factors, most importantly the value Gardasil brings to individuals and society,” says Jennifer Allen, a spokesperson for Merck. “HPV-related diseases cost the U.S. health-care system about $5 billion every year, and we took that into consideration.” Although Merck would not make sales projections, population data show that the vaccine would gross more than $11 billion if all women 11 to 26 in the United States were vaccinated per the CDC recommendation.
THIS to me, tells me that the system is broken. Merk (and the rest of big Pharma) has long jumped the ethical shark. Research should be brought back into the government fold (along with the patents) and manufacturers should be limited to manufacturing the drugs with reasonable, but not outrageous, profit margins.
****** insert exited Libertarian rants here *******
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
from the article: "More than one in five boys and girls have had vaginal sex by the age of 15, surveys show." by 15! holy ....! im 23, where was I when this was happening? oh right, im a nerd :-( Its funny, when the doctor asks me if I'm sexually active sometimes I give a sad sigh when I answer "No", Now I just snicker the same answer. *forever alone face*
Vaccination can lead to retardation in mothers, up to voting for Michele Bachmann.
Fandroids hate facts.
Your parents were prudes?I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but as has often been stated, the plural of anecdote is not data. I happen to know, both because I was born when my mom way 17 years old, and because the term TMI has no apparently meaning to my parents; that both my parents were sexually active as teenagers. Maybe my parents were sluts? Possible, but my data point is no more useful than yours. Historical analysis shows that while it wasn't talked about or studied, teenage rates of promiscuity probably haven't changed much since the Roman Empire (probably since before then, but the Romans were the first real great record keepers of western history). It's all based on statistical analysis and isn't an exact science, but most studies seem to indicate that (shockingly) teenagers have always been raging little balls of hormones with questionable self control.
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
Back in *my* day, we all had chastity belts and if anyone had sex we burned them as a consort of Lucifer. And you know what, we were happier and WE LIKED IT!
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Was $510 the cost of just the shot(s) or did that also include the doctors office visits?
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
My views on pharmaceutical labs were already pretty low, and I wasn't even aware of this...
Very interesting quote you just made.
For reference, I found the article from which the quote originates here:
http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/hpv
It does kill men. Just fewer. It can cause penile, oral and anal cancers in men.
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Yeah, just because men are the carriers that, in most cases, give it to women doesn't mean we should actually *do* anything about it. Fuck'em, why should we go through the terrible agony of a simple injection to help protect them from cervical cancer. Wait though....something is nagging at me here....
Oh yeah, it's this. SHIT! IT KILLS MEN TOO! WE MUST DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS!
Yeah, that makes sense. "Sorry lady, but due to the fact that your parents had some kind of reservation about giving you this vaccine, you get to die of cancer now that otherwise was easily preventable. I know, I know, it's rough, but your parents were afraid you'd be a slut if you got the vaccine". Great.
Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
In 2000, there were approximately 40 million people in the US between the ages of 10 and 24 (censusscope.org). The 3 dose Gardacil cycles costs approx $360 (cervicalcancer.about.com). Total cost of HPV public health vaccinations: 14Billion in the first year, and maybe $1Bn per year in each subsequent year.
There are approximately 12000 cases per year and 4300 deaths per year from cervical cancer (cancer.gov).
If Gardacil prevents 90% of those cases (it's a very effective vaccine), then vaccination has an effective cost of approximately $157,000 per case (assuming we amortize the initial 14Bn hit over 20 years).
I understand there are other public health benefits than simply prevention of cervical cancer, but let's hope we get a biosimilar quickly to drive the cost of vaccination down significantly.
According to the CDC website, no there is no test to say whether an individual is HPV infected or not.
Interestingly though it also seems to indicate that the HPV infection can go away of its own accord in time.
http://www.cdc.gov/std/HPV/STDFact-HPV.htm
"There is no general test for men or women to check one’s overall "HPV status," nor is there an approved HPV test to find HPV on the genitals or in the mouth or throat."
and from http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv-and-men.htm
"There is no test for men to check one’s overall “HPV status.” But HPV usually goes away on its own, without causing health problems. So an HPV infection that is found today will most likely not be there a year or two from now."
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"The disease is sexually transmitted, endemic in the sexually active, can cause genital warts in both men and women, and is the primary cause of cervical cancer, which kills hundreds of thousands of women globally each year."
Let us look at the figures at wiki. 4800 women died in US of cervical cancer. 70% of these are caused by HPV and the vaccines are 90% effective. It means that if everyone is vaccinated, it will prevent about 3000 deaths. Remember CDC is recommending for US men and women and has no effect on global deaths which is around 250k/yr of which 70% are due to HPV, which is about 175k. That figure does not qualify as "hundreds of thousands".
Also, with the cost ranging in the region of $100-200 and effectiveness of 4-6 years, this is one of the most expensive preventive medicines ever.
No it isn't, and your source kind of sucks.
This reads like the autism fraud news stories.
Here is the CDC's page on the whole issue. Excerpt (my emphasis):
People get vaccinated and die. People brush their teeth and die too. Statistics.
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
I think it if killed more men, there wouldn't be as much opposition. There seems to be a stronger desire for the conservatives to protect their pure, virginal daughters and denial than dealing what has been commonplace for teenagers for ages.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
I went and looked up the actual report on Gardasil's adverse reactions. Here's the straight dope:
Potential Autoimmune Disorder | Gardasil (11,813) | Placebo (9701)
Juvenile Arthritis | 1 | 0
Rheumatoid Arthritis | 2 | 0
Systemic lupus erythematosis | 0 | 1
Arthritis | 5 | 2
Reactive Arthritis | 1 | 0
So, at worst, the rate of such diseases was ~0.076% with Gardasil and ~0.031% without it. But these numbers are so low that the difference could easily be due to chance. There's no real evidence that Gardasil had anything to do with those cases. Saying otherwise is just scare tactics.
PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
Not everyone will be vaccinated, and not everyone who does get vaccinated will develop immunity. But if enough people are vaccinated, then the disease can't reach enough susceptibles to spread and even the people who aren't immune are protected, too.
There's a kid in my son's first grade class with a liver transplant, and is hence on immunosupressive drugs. Vaccinating my kids helps protect that kid's life. Same principle with all vaccines.
PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
I doubt very much there's NO test. Most likely there is no cheap, easy test that could be given casually.
Agreed:
* death rate due to adverse reactions to this particular vaccine: 32/25E6 = 1.3E-6
* death rate due to HPV: 3/100,000 = 3E-5
I'd take the death rate due to adverse reactions allrighty -- gives you chances that are an order of magnitude better.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
Thanks for the information, seems awfully expensive. In fact Merck only spent $250M on research of HPV but sold $365M in vaccine in the first quarter after introduction. It's the most expensive vaccine in the world, and for something which frankly isn't anywhere near the top of the deadly transmittable diseases. I think I'd rather give the $510 to an organization that will distribute the new Malaria vaccine where I know it will actually save many lives and also help to reduce world population growth.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Can we invent vaccines for sexually transmitted diseases that get transmitted sexually?
Someone should invent a vaccine that could go on condoms. Could call them White Hats.
No vaccine today uses any live virus. Typically, they contain killed viruses or just fragments of the virus. It is impossible to get the flu (even a mild case) from the flu vaccine. However, the flu vaccine takes time to become effective. During this time, you could be infected with the flu. (Alternatively, you could be infected before your shot but only have symptoms come out after it.) This is due to the coincidence of your infection and shot's timings, not due to the vaccine giving you the flu. People detect patterns, though, and start thinking that the vaccine gave them the flu.
According to Wikipedia: "The latest generation of preventive HPV vaccines is based on hollow virus-like particles (VLPs) assembled from recombinant HPV coat proteins." This means that being injected with the HPV vaccine doesn't mean that HPV viruses are now coursing through your body. Instead, some proteins from an HPV virus are. These proteins, by themselves, can't do anything to you. Your immune system, however, picks up on them and "fights them off" as if they were really HPV. Once done, your immune system will remember the fake HPV fight. When you are then really infected with HPV, your immune system will be ready to fight it off. (This is a bit of a simplification, but accurate enough.) There is a 0% chance that the HPV vaccine will infect you with HPV and then cause cancer.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
No, you are a self important idiot, who thinks you have the right to walk over everybody's individual rights for your convenience.
You can't handle the truth.
But the insurance companies are also aware for every subscriber they lose to "growing up", they'll gain another one who just grew-up. It's in their interest to do this kind of preventative treatment across the board because eventually most of these kids will become adult customers of *an* insurance company. These folks don't exist in a vacuum, insurance company execs from different companies meet to discuss "industry" concerns all the time, and these are the kinds of issues that come up.
Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
Are you kidding me? Try reading up on the Tuskeegee experiment. I think it was Siphilus they told the people they were being vaccinated against, in reality they were deliberately infecting them to see how it would spread and affect the community.
Your immune system IS the cure all. Your baby is already swarming with pathogens he is developing immunity to. A vaccine is just a drop in the bucket.
If you're really worried, keep your baby in a sterile room and make sure it never puts anything in its mouth. A decade later, you'll have one hell of a sickly kid.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Actually, that's _exactly_ what a vaccine is. Lots of vaccines, especially the early ones, were made from dead cultures of the disease they were supposed to prevent. Later on, scientists learned to isolate the unique antigens presented on infected cells, and made vaccines consisting of just these compounds. But all vaccination relies on "priming" the immune system with either a non-threatening verion of the pathogen, or some other non-threatening compound that, to the immune system, "looks" like the pathogen.
sustainable living
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/19/cbsnews_investigates/main5253431.shtml
(CBS News) Amid questions about the safety of the HPV vaccine Gardasil one of the lead researchers for the Merck drug is speaking out about its risks, benefits and aggressive marketing.
Dr. Diane Harper says young girls and their parents should receive more complete warnings before receiving the vaccine to prevent cervical cancer. Dr. Harper helped design and carry out the Phase II and Phase III safety and effectiveness studies to get Gardasil approved, and authored many of the published, scholarly papers about it. She has been a paid speaker and consultant to Merck. It's highly unusual for a researcher to publicly criticize a medicine or vaccine she helped get approved.
Dr. Harper joins a number of consumer watchdogs, vaccine safety advocates, and parents who question the vaccine's risk-versus-benefit profile. She says data available for Gardasil shows that it lasts five years; there is no data showing that it remains effective beyond five years.
This raises questions about the CDC's recommendation that the series of shots be given to girls as young as 11-years old. "If we vaccinate 11 year olds and the protection doesn't last... we've put them at harm from side effects, small but real, for no benefit," says Dr. Harper. "The benefit to public health is nothing, there is no reduction in cervical cancers, they are just postponed, unless the protection lasts for at least 15 years, and over 70% of all sexually active females of all ages are vaccinated." She also says that enough serious side effects have been reported after Gardasil use that the vaccine could prove riskier than the cervical cancer it purports to prevent. Cervical cancer is usually entirely curable when detected early through normal Pap screenings.
Dr. Scott Ratner and his wife, who's also a physician, expressed similar concerns as Dr. Harper in an interview with CBS News last year. One of their teenage daughters became severely ill after her first dose of Gardasil. Dr. Ratner says she'd have been better off getting cervical cancer than the vaccination. "My daughter went from a varsity lacrosse player at Choate to a chronically ill, steroid-dependent patient with autoimmune myofasciitis. I've had to ask myself why I let my eldest of three daughters get an unproven vaccine against a few strains of a nonlethal virus that can be dealt with in more effective ways."
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Never been known to fail..."
Several state and local governments have proposed requiring the vaccine for school girls entering the 6th grade.
Gardasil is approved for girls as young as nine years old, despite the fact that the youngest girls participating in clinical trials were 11-12 years old.
And how is this related to efficacy or danger of the vaccine?
A recent study, published in the New England Journal of Medicine, also questioned the general effectiveness of Gardasil. Additionally, there has not been a chance to study long term side effects of the vaccine.
There has been one study questioning the effectiveness. Can you elaborate? Does that study question the reported effectiveness or the general effectiveness like it should be 92% instead of 95%.
Special Reports . . .
Wow do you actually read any of the information you linked or are you trying to make your point by overwhelming people with a lot of data and hoping they don't actually read any of it. If you actually went through your data, most of the cases were listed as NOT SERIOUS. In most of the serious cases, Gardasil was present however there was no definite link that the symptoms were caused by Gardasil. By law, Merck must report anything to the FDA that involves the drug.
But you never answered the general question: 1800+ cases of reported symptoms in 25 million doses. Even if all the symptoms were related to Gardasil, that is 0.0073% chance of having a symptom compared to the 0.0030% chance of death due to HPV. That's a lot of ifs.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.