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Weaponizable Police UAV Now Operational In Texas

crackspackle writes "The Montgomery County Sheriff's Office in suburban Houston, Texas is preparing to launch operations with a newly received Shadowhawk MK-III unmanned aerial vehicle, paid for by grant money received by the Department of Homeland Security. The MK-III is a product marketed for both military and law enforcement applications. Michael Buscher, chief executive officer of manufacturer Vanguard Defense Industries, said this is the first local law enforcement agency to buy one of his units. 'The aircraft has the capability to have a number of different systems on board. Mostly, for law enforcement, we focus on what we call less lethal systems,' he said, including Tazers that can send a jolt to a criminal on the ground or a gun that fires bean bags known as a 'stun baton.' 'You have a stun baton where you can actually engage somebody at altitude with the aircraft. A stun baton would essentially disable a suspect,' he said. The MK-III also has more lethal options available, capable of carrying either a 40mm or 37mm grenade launcher or 12 gauge shotgun with laser designator."

416 comments

  1. America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Land of the free, home of the brave.

    1. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Land of the free, home of the brave.

      FROM : The World
      TO : USA
      OBJECT : Security

      Can we assist you in building a 300 ft tall wall that encompasses the entire continental US ?
      That way we get to keep the criminals out, and you get to keep the criminals in.

    2. Re:America by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Also land of thugs who rob and shoot their fellow citizens.

      This is Slashdot so nearly everyone hates government and cops, but the cops don't hassle me or steal or rob in my neighborhood.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    3. Re:America by Immostlyharmless · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "In my neighborhood"

      So you're well off and Caucasian? Must be, cause trust me they enjoy fucking with the rest of us.....

    4. Re:America by 0111+1110 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      but the cops don't hassle me or steal or rob in my neighborhood.

      As someone who was recently beaten up by a cop in a relatively wealthy suburb and then falsely charged with enough stuff to put me in prison (the real America) for a couple of years if the jury believes his lies, it is hard for me to sympathize. American cops are evil thugs. Period. I have lived in a number of third world countries and none of them had cops like we have. In most third world countries 'corrupt' means asking for and accepting small bribes. In the US it means sadistically beating innocent people for the fun of it and then trying their best to put them in prison for getting beat up (cover charges). And there is no oversight. The police police themselves here.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    5. Re:America by haruchai · · Score: 0

      Not to worry, we can easily find you somewhere to live where you won't feel neglected by the blue-suited thugs. Or you can just go for some fresh air and join a peaceful protest. I suggest wearing a full-face helmet - batons to the cranium and rubber bullets to the face make for nasty ouchies.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    6. Re:America by Immostlyharmless · · Score: 2

      Actually, not at all, there was a time in my life before I was a college graduate that I lived in a very poor part of town and drove a crappy older vehicle and I've never been pulled over so many times in such a short period of time for the most bullshit reasons. "Your tail light is dim", "Your taillight has a crack in it", etc (tail lights were fine...btw), they just wanted to pull me over because I was there. Oh, and btw, I'm Caucasian anonymous griefer, wanna try again?

    7. Re:America by Ravon+Rodriguez · · Score: 2

      Racism implies an erroneous stereotype; its no secret that law enforcement tend to single out the lower class and minorities, simply because the police themselves observe stereotypes of their own (i.e. if you don't have a lot of money, you're more likely to steal). A lot of police use these stereotypes as justification to bend the law, as long as they think they're sticking to the spirit of it.

      --
      Jesus loves me, he loves me a bunch, because he always puts Jiffy in my lunch.
    8. Re:America by St.Creed · · Score: 2

      A Vietnamese friend of mine was 24 years old, with a great job at a luxury brand car import company, and he drove a very sleek mercedes. After he sold it, he stuck with less visible cars because he couldn't drive anywhere without being pulled over at least once, in that mercedes :) (24 year old vietnamese guy, dressed in very current fashion, sunglasses, driving a new mercedes with tinted glass windows - even I thought he looked like a pimp or a drugsdealer and I'm not even a cop :))

      --
      Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
    9. Re:America by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      A bean bag fired from a UAV? Will definitely fit the description of cruel and unusual.

    10. Re:America by Pseudonym+Authority · · Score: 1

      Did you ever get the "Your license plate is partial obscured by dust" bit? I've gotten it twice. I was also harassed for not wearing my seatbelt WHILE PARKED IN A PARKING LOT.

    11. Re:America by KingBenny · · Score: 1

      As long as law needs to be enforced, there is an underlying problem that needs to be adressed. It is the only way it works. Your national anthem might seem a bit sarcastic at some times but i can assure you you don't have monopoly on redneck-isms and rambocops. Everything is based on treatment or rather removal of symptoms, from medicine, to law enforcement, to about anything. It's like, just make it go away and ignore where it came from is the solution to everything. Maybe we should elect provost Zakharov and Lady Deirdre and Roze and call out an independent nation ...

      --
      Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
  2. This is how liberty dies. by gottspeed · · Score: 2

    This reminds me of robocop. PUT DOWN YOUR WEAPON. YOU HAVE TEN SECONDS TO COMPLY. The smaller the minds the bigger the government.

    1. Re:This is how liberty dies. by arthurpaliden · · Score: 1

      No, liberty dies because people do not vote but leave it to those with agendas to who do vote to run the country.

    2. Re:This is how liberty dies. by wygit · · Score: 1

      Reminds me a lot more of Blue Thunder, 1983, Roy Scheider.

      "This ship is equipped with a forward-mounted, twenty-millimeter electric cannon. Its six barrels are capable of firing four thousand rounds of ammunition per minute. And that, gentlemen, is one hell of a shit-storm in anybody's language!"

      [Braddock and Murphy have watched Blue Thunder perform a selective firepower demonstration]
      Icelan: Well, look at that, all the red dummies are blown to hell.
      Frank Murphy: And a few white ones!
      Fletcher: One civilian dead for every ten terrorists. That's an acceptable ratio.
      Frank Murphy: [Leaning closer to Braddock] Unless you're one of the civilians!

    3. Re:This is how liberty dies. by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Voting is a sham. Even your founding fathers knew this when Franklin said "democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for dinner". Democracy is a word that you shove into people's faces to tell them to accept anything the government wants to do to them in exchange for putting an 'x' on a piece of paper every 4 years.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    4. Re:This is how liberty dies. by MaxToTheMax · · Score: 1

      Liberty dies when the right to carry a gun goes away. Until then, you could always just shoot the UAV out of the sky.

    5. Re:This is how liberty dies. by jcombel · · Score: 4, Informative

      Even your founding fathers knew this when Franklin said "democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for dinner".

      Ben Franklin did not say this. People on the internet - trying to make their goofy arguments sound intellectual and/or support a non-literal interpretation of the second amendment - said this.

    6. Re:This is how liberty dies. by vipvop · · Score: 1

      That's a good statement, but Franklin didn't say it.

    7. Re:This is how liberty dies. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd expect that the people most likely to use this phrase are also most likely to support a literal interpretation of the second amendment.

    8. Re:This is how liberty dies. by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      i vote everytime. no one i vote for wins.

    9. Re:This is how liberty dies. by The+Pirou · · Score: 2

      I vote every time. The people I vote for always win. I still don't win.

    10. Re:This is how liberty dies. by koan · · Score: 1

      Hush...all voting ever got me was jury duty.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    11. Re:This is how liberty dies. by shellster_dude · · Score: 1

      Your doing it wrong then...you are voting for popular opinion, not those who actually make a difference. You're not voting for those who are willing to make the hard choices to cut back government and defund security agencies like the TSA, Homeland Security, and others.

      Voting has consequences. Know who you vote for. I've yet to see a politician, who upon getting elected, was anything other than what common sense told you he was going to be via his past record.

    12. Re:This is how liberty dies. by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

      Shooting at police or their property puts you in deep shit with and without gun rights.

    13. Re:This is how liberty dies. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shooting at police or their property puts you in deep shit with and without gun rights.

      Sometimes, you just have to be prepared for the consequences of your actions. Well armed (and trained) is well prepared.

    14. Re:This is how liberty dies. by demachina · · Score: 1

      With America's current two party system you are completely wrong. The two recent choices we've been blessed with for President would appear to be polar opposites and offer a world of difference but in fact there was no difference. Everyone who voted for Obama thought they WERE doing what you said and millions of young idealistic voters have been poisoned against voting for good because he was a sham. You can argue that you could tell he was a sham by his record and you probably could but he was as close as you can get in this country to actually appearing to offer a desperately needed changeâ¦. and he didn't change anything.

      Obama has followed the Bush agenda on trashing civil liberties, spying on Americans, state secrets abuses, expanding the police state and war mongering and has actually pushed the agenda even farther and harder than Bush. Most liberals are reluctant to even criticize him for doing crap they eviscerated Bush and Cheney for doing.

      On economics Obama appointed Geithner and Summers, Clinton appointed Rubin and Summers and they pushed the Wall Street agenda harder than Republicans do, caused even more damage, and completely sold the middle class down the river⦠like always.

      Maybe you are arguing a majority of Americans should suddenly wake up and get a clue and start voting for some mysterious third party. Chances of that are miniscule. The system is completely rigged to favor the two parties. The media barely covers Ron Paul and he is actually in a major party and the third party candidates are either quacks or made to look that way by the beloved boob tube.

      Candidates who are in any way out of the orthodoxy of what the establishment wants you to vote for die in obscurity, they get no coverage, no money, no respect and the vast majority of Americans are conditioned to think of them as throw away votes.

      Just watch what happens to any candidate, even in the major parties, who in any way says anything critical of Israel, they are completely destroyed almost instantly by an establishment that is more concerned with what is good for Israel than what is good for America. Its just the sterling, easily visible, example of how a tiny elite decides who American's vote for and no matter who actually wins⦠they always win.

      2004 is another great example, two wealthy Yale Skull and Bones establishmentarians running against each other to delude Americans in to thinking there was a choice to be had there...

      --
      @de_machina
    15. Re:This is how liberty dies. by Beeftopia · · Score: 1


      "An armed society is a polite society." - Socrates

    16. Re:This is how liberty dies. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure they'll do something like declare the UAV is "an officer",and therefore you're now guilty of 'shooting an officer'. Just like they do with police dogs.

    17. Re:This is how liberty dies. by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      I cannot help but wonder how staff members of Vanguard Defense Industries would feel if one of their own, Michael Buscher maybe? Were faced with a robot holding a loaded gun, pointed at them?

    18. Re:This is how liberty dies. by dalani · · Score: 1

      NO: democracy is what it is partly because two lambs stayed home on voting night to let 2 wolves and one lamb vote on whats for dinner

    19. Re:This is how liberty dies. by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      I cannot help but wonder how staff members of Vanguard Defense Industries would feel if one of their own, Michael Buscher maybe? Were faced with a robot holding a loaded gun, pointed at them?

      Didn't you see Robocop? Directive 4...

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    20. Re:This is how liberty dies. by Pseudonym+Authority · · Score: 2

      That's why I attribute everything I say to a famous person.

      ~Thomas Jefferson in a letter to Abraham Lincoln, July 4th, 1776

    21. Re:This is how liberty dies. by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      How about 'er' accidental radio frequency jamming.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    22. Re:This is how liberty dies. by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      Shooting at police or their property puts you in deep shit with and without gun rights.

      Sometimes, you just have to be prepared for the consequences of your actions. Well armed (and trained) is well prepared.

      Welcome to Waco. Please bear in mind that police induced lead poisoning is not covered under your HMO. However, you or your heirs are still responsible for making your monthly HMO payment. Have a nice day, and please stop bleeding on our carpets.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    23. Re:This is how liberty dies. by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      I must admit to using that phrase. I have never attributed it to anyone as I have never been sure.

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    24. Re:This is how liberty dies. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Voting is a sham. Even your founding fathers knew this when Franklin said "democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for dinner". Democracy is a word that you shove into people's faces to tell them to accept anything the government wants to do to them in exchange for putting an 'x' on a piece of paper every 4 years.

      You, sir, are a prize cunt. Democracy is imperfect but it's certainly preferable to the alternative. Unless, of course, you actually like dictatorships.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    25. Re:This is how liberty dies. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Liberty dies when the right to carry a gun goes away. Until then, you could always just shoot the UAV out of the sky.

      The right to carry a gun does not mean the right to shoot it whatever you want, genius.

      In case you hadn't realised, shooting someone to death is generally illegal, but it would be beyond retarded to call that an infringement of your rights.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    26. Re:This is how liberty dies. by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      And what if it was 20 wolves staying home with 2 lambs staying home and 50 wolves voting against one lamb on whats for dinner? Does that make democracy any better?

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
  3. What could possibly go wrong by hedwards · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You have a state that doesn't seem to mind executing people that might be innocent and where there's little concern for courts convicting innocent people in general.

    Yeah, those are the people that I'd want to be operating armed drones over my house. Thankfully, I live way away from, Texas, but this ought to scare the crap out of anybody who lives there. Precisely what happens when this thing hits somebody that isn't the intended target? Or how about collateral damage? I don't think that police forces typically arm themselves with grenade launchers in the US>

    1. Re:What could possibly go wrong by sgt+scrub · · Score: 2

      You have a state that doesn't seem to mind executing people that might be innocent, for political points, and where there's little concern for courts convicting innocent people in general.

      FTFY

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    2. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Nidi62 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Precisely what happens when this thing hits somebody that isn't the intended target? Or how about collateral damage? I don't think that police forces typically arm themselves with grenade launchers in the US>

      I would expect that that the same rules that govern when the police can pull and fire his weapon would apply here. Also, there's a risk of collateral damage whenever police get in a shootout with a suspect. As in, there are a number of steps a cop must go through in ID'ing the suspect and confirming they have a weapon. And, if they don't, they are usually officially reprimanded, if not prosecuted. Contrary to popular opinion here, the percentage of cops that are corrupt or abuse their power is a very small percentage of the total police force in the US. And, including them, the number of police who actually want to shoot someone is even less.

      And actually, police forces in the US have been using grenade launcher-type weapons since the 20s or 30s to deploy tear gas. They have simple 1 shot break action type launchers akin to the M79 from Vietnam, and also multi-round, revolver type ones similar to the MM-1. And it's not just US police that use them, most modern police forces have equipment of this type. Also, many of the multi-round revolver launchers come with bean-bag rounds as well as the standard CS rounds.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    3. Re:What could possibly go wrong by hedwards · · Score: 2

      There is always that possibility, but you have an officer on site and there's accountability there. And don't forget that innocent civilians aren't typically expecting death from above. What happens if there's a glitch in the system? These presumably aren't going to be fully automated, but you still have the risk of mistakes happening, and people being vulnerable that wouldn't otherwise be vulnerable. You also don't have any information about the scene that isn't specifically accounted for by one of the sensors. Police are far from perfect, but having personnel deployed is a significant advantage if you need to worry about killing innocent civilians.

      This strikes me as a significant move towards a fascist dictatorship.

      As for grenade launcher type weapons, the summary pretty clearly implied that it was actual grenades. Tear gas is typically less than lethal. Of course I suppose that there is a remote risk of death, like with rubber bullets, but they are intended to be less than lethal, unlike grenades.

    4. Re:What could possibly go wrong by t2t10 · · Score: 1

      You have a state that doesn't seem to mind executing people that might be innocent and where there's little concern for courts convicting innocent people in general.

      And which state would that be? I don't know of any such state in the US.

    5. Re:What could possibly go wrong by couchslug · · Score: 2, Funny

      Non-lethal grenade launchers are common, and if there's room modern lethal launchers are respectably accurate.

      They'd be a fine way to end vehicular chases where there is room. There's no reason not to kill a fleeing robber who has no hostages.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    6. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Dripdry · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wait... wait...
      did you just say what I think you said? I want to be sure you meant that, but "There's no reason not to KILL (my emphasis) a fleeing robber if he has no hostages"

      Um, maybe you're trolling, but your comment strikes me as exactly what is wrong with some scary mentality that's springing up around our nation: Guilty until proven innocent!
      And by the way, slashdotters, this is human behavior at work, so let's not villify too much, let's be pragmatic: People hold their own ideas and perception in higher regard than is typically warranted by facts. This is why courts are in place, to ensure that no one person makes a decision of life and death.

      On another note, the idea that killing someone because they robbed a place/person seems abominable IMHO. You'd take their most precious gift just because they took someone's money and/or assaulted them? Granted, they deserve punishment, but you are WAY beyond the pale here, buddy.

      I sure hope you're not a cop, if you were I'd report you to the higher-ups I know to do my part in ensuring you either a) get help or b) don't work in a police force anywhere I can help it.

      --
      -
    7. Re:What could possibly go wrong by budgenator · · Score: 1

      FTA

      Gage said he has no immediate plans to outfit his drone with weapons, and he also ruled out using the chopper for catching speeders.

      The people screeching the loudest seems to be pilots, which I'm reading as TV News Helicopter pilots as they are the pilots most likely to be operating in areas with ongoing police operations.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    8. Re:What could possibly go wrong by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Funny

      In other news, hackers have released a new version of the BackShadowHawk trojan, capable of taking control of both the ShadowHawk UAV and its' controller's computer. The most impressive feature is the ability to use Amazon's EC2 platform to generate false real-time images that let the controller think they've just bean-bagged a perp when they've really blown up a police car.

      Also just in, the Boy Scouts of America have successfully detonated their first nuclear device. "Be prepared" is now taking on a whole new meaning. They don't anticipate any regulatory issues, not only because of their recent victory with extending their "right to bear arms" to include 40 watt plasma rifles or anyone over the age of 8, but because, as one troop master put it "we CAN nuke them - and we're working on the 'from orbit' part."

      [ADVERTISEMENT] Target is having a sale on reactive personal armor. The MC Hammer "Can't touch this" 200kva jacket is now 70% off when you buy two or more. Fries muggers and panhandlers to a crisp. Avoids those inconvenient legal complications from "oops, wrong person" moments by not leaving any usble DNA. Batteries not included.

      Breaking news: The current president of the United States of Western America has been executed. This makes 17 presidents in 4 years. When he was initially picked by random lottery, he had said that he would not serve, and he has made good on that threat. His last words were "f*ck you all, you're totally ape-sh*t anyway." A new president is being drafted from the ranks of the homeless. In the meantime, the vice-president, who has advanced ALS, drooled when informed that she is now the acting president of the USWA. Residents are being reminded to stay indoors to avoid the draft, because in a true democracy, ANYONE can be president - and this includes YOU!

      In related news, citizens refused to remove the "Mandatory Responsible Government Balanced Budget Amendment" from the USWA constitution. Under that amendment, the President is responsible for balancing the budget within 3 months of attaining office, or be executed. "We demand responsible gobbement. And they damn well better not touch my benefits." said one voter.

      The country of Texas has announced that it will no longer inter refugees from either the Eastern Confederacy or the USWA - they will be tried and executed by mobile courts hearing cases in the back of a 45' trailer, same as the Free State of Arizona has been doing with Mexicans since before Deconstruction.

      [PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT] Relax, citizen. Everything is under control under control under control under control under ...

    9. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >There's no reason not to kill a fleeing robber who has no hostages.

      There has been since approximately 200bc, when the roman plebeians got the right to seek redress in court. Before that time the patricians of Rome could apply justice more or less as they saw fit, and there were no way of appealing any abuse.

      I find it interesting how you trust people wearing uniforms - or togas - by fiat. History would seem to suggest that is a really moronic idea. Just imagine - I could be the one in a uniform.

    10. Re:What could possibly go wrong by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      I sure hope you're not a cop, if you were I'd report you to the higher-ups I know to do my part in ensuring you either a) get help or b) don't work in a police force anywhere I can help it.

      The cops would just laugh at you. And maybe target you for harassment. There are cops who have been caught on tape beating people up and who have even been found guilty in court who are still working as cops. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a cop in any trouble? It's almost impossible. Part of the reason is district attorneys almost universally refuse to prosecute cops because their job depends on working closely with them. Also keep in mind that if you did by some miracle manage to get a bad cop in trouble he would probably come to your house and either beat the shit out of you or kill you. There is only one way to punish a cop in the US where the courts don't punish them. You have to kill them.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    11. Re:What could possibly go wrong by cuncator · · Score: 2
      The US has been unfortunately moving towards fascism ever since the 80's. It certainly seems to have accelerated recently, though.

      Tear gas is typically less than lethal. Of course I suppose that there is a remote risk of death, like with rubber bullets, but they are intended to be less than lethal, unlike grenades.

      Scott Olsen, the former Marine shot in the face with a tear gas canister, probably would have something to say about those less than lethal effects.

      The police are going through the same pains as the average worker around the globe. Under pressure from reduced budgets, they are forced to do more with less staff. This reduces community involvement and increases stress for an already incredibly stressful profession, leading to increased confrontation and the possibility of deadly conflict with the populace they are supposed to protect and serve. Combined with the increased militarization of the police, I dread that we will see another Kent State before this is over.

    12. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's Texas you stupid cocksucker.

    13. Re:What could possibly go wrong by tqk · · Score: 1

      You'd take their most precious gift just because they took someone's money and/or assaulted them?

      The way I read it is he'd advocate this course for anyone suspected of robbery. I guess that puts every criminal defence attorney out of business. No need for any of that bother now. "Hello, 911? My next door neighbour just stole my lawnmower. Could you please lob a grenade into his living room? Kay, thanks, bye."

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    14. Re:What could possibly go wrong by couchslug · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      If he runs he doesn't care who he runs over.

      There's nothing precious about robbers. If you run and refuse to stop during high-speed pursuit you are PERFECTLY WILLING TO RUN OVER CIVILIANS.

      I don't get shot by the cops because I don't rob other people. I don't run from blue lights and crash through barricades and bounce off the fucking scenery in an effort to avoid apprehension.

      Fuck yes kill those who run roadblocks and shoot back at pursuers.
      How dare YOU value such people over GOOD people?

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    15. Re:What could possibly go wrong by 0111+1110 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Someone who shoots a thief is a murderer. Someone who robs is just a thief. So who is the bad guy? There are countries where shooting a fleeing thief (or presumed thief) will get you tried for murder. I like those countries. It's just common sense that murder is worse than theft and that one does not justify the other. If someone points a gun at you then you are free to shoot them on the assumption that they are about to shoot you. But shooting a running person in the back? That's murder. Plain and simple.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    16. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know it may sound like too much from your end. However, have you lived in border areas like Laredo or El Paso?

      The automatic gunfire is somedays almost constant across that fence. These are not just petty thugs or some scattered meth-mouths looking to roll some spray-tan college student to get some shabu. The cartels have true soldiers working for them.

      The cartels have not just up to par with foot soldiers, they have armored vehicles, and have been known to actually try making a decent tank or two. They possess subs, both manned and unmanned, as well as decent air support. These are guys whom the #12 military in the world (Iran) begged for a deal, and this in itself shows how powerful the cartels are.

      Criminal elements is one thing. However, there becomes a time when an element isn't just criminal, it gets large enough to be considered an insurgency. It wouldn't take much for the constant shooting to cross the border and head north.

      For a guy with a gun holed up in an apartment shouting about how OS X is 100% secure, a police department sends a SWAT team. For a true army in every sense of the word, where 50 caliber pistols are considered the low end, you have to exceed, or at least match the firepower, and that is where these come in.

    17. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Guilty until proven innocent!

      Not even that. It's "if he's running he must be guilty".

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    18. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Only if you live in a snapshot in time, frozen at that moment.

    19. Re:What could possibly go wrong by hoggoth · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't want to be in #occupy-Houston right now...

      "An investigation has determined that police acted correctly when shooting protesters from unmanned aerial drones to protect citizens from unsanitary conditions in the park"

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    20. Re:What could possibly go wrong by delta42 · · Score: 2

      If you run and refuse to stop during high-speed pursuit you are PERFECTLY WILLING TO RUN OVER CIVILIANS.

      If the police pursuit you at high speeds they are PERFECTLY WILLING TO RUN OVER CIVILIANS.

      OMG, no! Let them not run over civilians!
      How dare YOU value the police over GOOD people?

      Logic, much?
      Freak.

    21. Re:What could possibly go wrong by chrb · · Score: 1

      For a true army in every sense of the word, where 50 caliber pistols are considered the low end, you have to exceed, or at least match the firepower, and that is where these come in.

      The smart thing is to cool the situation down rather than escalate it. Reduce the money flowing to the cartels, and you reduce their power. History has shown that increasing the amount of firepower that the state uses, to the point of using the military against the people, seldom works. Extreme violence is only a symptom of the Mexico problem, not the cause. Solving the problem will require adopting new political policies that reflect the underlying social reality. Unfortunately politicians have shown that they are unable or unwilling to do this. When what you are doing is not working, then you should do something else: "Insanity is when you keep doing the same things expecting different results"

    22. Re:What could possibly go wrong by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      What happens if there's a glitch in the system?

      We already know what happens when there's a glitch in robotic policing tools.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    23. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have a state that doesn't seem to mind executing people that might be innocent and where there's little concern for courts convicting innocent people in general.

      Yeah, those are the people that I'd want to be operating armed drones over my house. Thankfully, I live way away from, Texas, but this ought to scare the crap out of anybody who lives there. Precisely what happens when this thing hits somebody that isn't the intended target? Or how about collateral damage? I don't think that police forces typically arm themselves with grenade launchers in the US>

      This isn't for policing citizens, it's for policing our borders. Use your heads. We have a war going on at our Mexican borders. Until you live in a border state where drug wars are carrying on and people are getting killed because of it, you should shut the hell up.

    24. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Oswald · · Score: 1

      I dread that we will see another Kent State before this is over.

      You're not the only one. The other day I was watching a televised report of one of the recent cases of police "over-zealousness" with my wife. Assuming she was paying attention to the TV, and in a reference to the rising tension in the country, I muttered, "Four dead in O-Hi-O." Apparently she had been lost in her own thoughts, because when she realized what I had just said, she jerked her head around and said, "Not again!"

      Interesting times.

    25. Re:What could possibly go wrong by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Contrary to popular opinion here, the percentage of cops that are corrupt or abuse their power is a very small percentage of the total police force in the US.

      I'd say that any cop who knows about corruption or abuse is equally culpable.
      When the people tasked with upholding our laws are covering for each other,
      it significantly increases that percentage from "very small" to "what the fuck is wrong with our law enforcement officers"

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    26. Re:What could possibly go wrong by The+Pirou · · Score: 1

      I'm going to mark this as 'slightly relevant' when it comes up in Google ratings.

    27. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Run Logan!

    28. Re:What could possibly go wrong by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 1

      Not every PD is like Oakland. Maybe in Texas it is, but for upstate NY, Occupy Albany has an ally in the police.

      City hall and the State Capitol are right across from each other, with a park in between. Half the park belongs to the state, the other half the city. Once the 11PM curfew hit (the park closes then), the state police were all ready to make arrests, but the city police refused to... so the protesters simply walked over to the city side of the line, and stayed there ever since. The recent snowfall is the only thing thus far that has pressured the movement to leave.

      The Governor (and initially the mayor) were pissed at the police, but they can't do anything about it. The mayor is now backing the police.

    29. Re:What could possibly go wrong by ToadProphet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So where's the line? If someone drives recklessly should they be blow to smithereens? Driving slightly over the limit? Speeding?

      If putting the lives of others at risks justifies summary execution the world will get a whole lot emptier real soon.

      --
      It's on America's tortured brow, That Mickey Mouse has grown up a cow
    30. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcVGzqwfx7k

    31. Re:What could possibly go wrong by shellster_dude · · Score: 1

      "We demand responsible gobbement. And they damn well better not touch my benefits." said one voter.

      This is unfortunately the root of the problem. We demand spending cuts, but as soon as someone makes the necessary cuts, who ever got shafted by them demonizes them out of office.

      We demand safety and security, but then scream bloody murder when the government adds more and more "safety" measures. At some point politics has stopped being about real, reasonable change, and become a game of trying to not piss off any of the voters, which amounts to not doing anything of value.

    32. Re:What could possibly go wrong by demachina · · Score: 1

      Read the first line of the submission before speaking and making a fool out of yourselfâ¦. it was bought by the county sherrif where Houston is. Houston isn't any where near the border.

      --
      @de_machina
    33. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who ARE you people? Is this the kind of claptrap rhetoric used to convince people the cops have everyone's best interests in mind? The issue here is that you have a force of people told to maintain order, and then you hand them tools to ensure that order is maintained. If the tool is a shield, then they use the shield when they feel threatened or think the situation warrants it. If you give them rubber bullets, they'll fire rubber bullets. If you give them hammers, they'll bang on everything like it's a nail. You get the point - you can't give police military-grade equipment and then tell them to 'use it responsibly' - it's just not the right tool for the job. They WILL use it, and the results will be wrong because the equipment is overkill and vastly inappropriate. Never mind the gross overspending of public money. Military-grade equipment should not be used by the police. Period.

    34. Re:What could possibly go wrong by dnanner · · Score: 1

      Please remember that at one time Texas was it's own Republic and is still the only state that has it's own Power Grid not connected to the other states Grid. The Texas Rangers still "Get their Man" even when he is from your state and they needed help catching him. Texas doesn' raise sheep, we lead not follow. Every State has executed innocent men. Texas is a leader in doing DNA test to release men who have been wrongly convicted. Houston is a huge Port on the Gulf of Mexico and the influx of those who would commit crimes upon the people of this nation. Acquiring the necessary tools to stop those people before they reach Your State is commendable don't you think? I'm sure the law enforcement communities all over the Nation are taking turns in training their officers in the use of this drone. If you remember it said that it was granted to Houston by our Federal Government. Houston is just where the Law Enforcement Communties of this Nation decided the best place to test and train the drone. I'm sure one just like it will be coming to your community real soon. Do not be so naive as to think that Homeland Security is not behind the placement and training of this drone for placement all over the rest of the country. Texas is just the best place for that. As far as "What can go wrong?" Alot could but I don't think the designers nor the experienced are going to let anyone at the helm of the drone until proper training has been done and those that prove the most level headed under pressure are found, be it their from Texas or Your State. Welcome to the 21st century and Star Wars isn't just a movie any more. dnanner, feeling safe in Texas

    35. Re:What could possibly go wrong by t2t10 · · Score: 1

      Seems to me those people are happy that guilty, dangerous criminals are being executed. It's your belief that these people are innocent.

      I think we should abolish the death penalty. But, frankly, what passes for death penalty opponents is such an ideologically driven and irrational bunch that I doubt it's going to get much traction.

    36. Re:What could possibly go wrong by St.Creed · · Score: 1

      Houston isn't any where near the border.

      But who knows what the future brings, right? :)

      --
      Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
    37. Re:What could possibly go wrong by xx_chris · · Score: 1
      Precisely what happens when this thing hits somebody that isn't the intended target?

      They become the intended target. Next question.

    38. Re:What could possibly go wrong by xx_chris · · Score: 1

      That would be Texas.

    39. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesnt scare "the crap" out of me. Im not a suspect in need of an _Unmanned Aerial Vehicle_ to travel over me and tazer "the crap" out of me. (shrugs) Im not carrying a lethal weapon, roaming the neighborhoods to kill anyone either. You wanna witness that shit, go to mexico. heh
      Its really nothing to be scared of. Unless your Alex Jones or something.

    40. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For a true army in every sense of the word, where 50 caliber pistols are considered the low end, you have to exceed, or at least match the firepower, and that is where these come in.

      No, that is where you send in the *right* professionals. The military in this case, not the bloody police.

      The police should handle policing. The army handles insurrection and similar.

    41. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and unless you live near the border between Mexico and Texas, which no one does cause its flat out desert, theres nothing to be afraid over. Ive read into the reports of the project. Its more about streamlining the efforts to hold the barrier from illegal importing, violence from the frustration of jumpers, and crime from trying to enter the US.

    42. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only reason to use the grenades in this project is if a large group of rebels decide war (yes, machine gun at ICE and get around it) over the fact that they cant enter the US because of their actions. They MUST be legally allowed to enter. No ifs ands or buts. (shrug) And until they get the message, we'll stop thinking of ways to streamline the efforts.

    43. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't trouble yourself with the details, just pull the trigger and let Allah sort 'em out.

    44. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How dare YOU value such people over GOOD people?

      I've deemed you a bad person for your insane rants. Please do all the GOOD people a favor and kill yourself. kthxbye.

    45. Re:What could possibly go wrong by MagusSlurpy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There is only one way to punish a cop in the US where the courts don't punish them. You have to kill them.

      That's BS. They can lose vacation time!

      --
      My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
    46. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Jerry · · Score: 1

      The smart thing is to cool the situation down rather than escalate it. Reduce the money flowing to the cartels, and you reduce their power.

      Exactly!

      Most of the drug problems in this country and Mexico are caused by AMERICANS addicted to Marijuana, Heroin and Cocaine. The crack addicts deal to support their habit and the only way many of them can sell the stuff is to give free doses to the friends and family members to get them addicted. That turns most of them into petty thieves and prostitutes to support their habits. The best way to reduce money flowing to the cartels is to legalize Marijuana and tax it the same way alcohol is. That would almost instantly depopulate our prisons. Also, get serious about the use of detoxification programs to reduce the dependency on the hard drugs and accelerate the Cocaine/Heroin vaccine research.

      I suspect that a lot of these treatment and research programs are not funded because too many people at or near the top of the political/social hierarchy personally benefit from the drug misery.

      P.S. -- I am neither a smoker, drinker or drug user.

      --

      Running with Linux for over 20 years!

    47. Re:What could possibly go wrong by MagusSlurpy · · Score: 1

      You missed the point - they're talking about stopping a high-speed chase before it ends with a school bus pushed off an overpass, not just shooting some guy who stole a loaf of bread from a supermarket.

      --
      My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
    48. Re:What could possibly go wrong by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      It will be amusing to see how law encroachment handles "Smoking" issues.

    49. Re:What could possibly go wrong by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Murder is killing an INNOCENT person.

      Killing a fleeing criminal is DEFENDING the public, lawful in many areas.

      Why do you value the criminal more than "everyone else"?

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    50. Re:What could possibly go wrong by couchslug · · Score: 1

      That's why I advocate killing the runners to END the pursuit.

      Explain why you value them more than good people.

      Explain why you value them...at all.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    51. Re:What could possibly go wrong by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Refusal to pull over coupled with sustained high-speed evasion is a pretty clear "line".

      It requires considerable deliberate effort and repeated decisions to resist apprehension.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    52. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Contrary to popular opinion here, the percentage of cops that are corrupt or abuse their power is a very large percentage of the total police force in the US.

      fixed

    53. Re:What could possibly go wrong by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      So where's the line? If someone drives recklessly should they be blow to smithereens? Driving slightly over the limit? Speeding?

      If putting the lives of others at risks justifies summary execution the world will get a whole lot emptier real soon.

      Merrely getting behind the wheel of a car puts both yourself and the general public at risk of injury. Does this mean we declare open season on anything that moves on I-90?

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    54. Re:What could possibly go wrong by izomiac · · Score: 1

      If you see someone commit a crime, but don't know who they are, then they're a perpetrator and there's no question of guilt or innocence. Once you track down someone you suspect is that perpetrator then they're a 'suspect' and presumed innocent until proven guilty. Vigilante justice is bad because it deals with the latter, whereas self defense is legal because it deals with the former. The distinction is lost on most people (especially TV reporters watching live feeds), but is critically important.

      As for a thief, I agree that lethal force is a bit much. But for a robber it's perfectly acceptable. The difference, of course, is that a thief steals by stealth, whereas a robber threatens to hurt/kill you. That's why castle doctrines exist. Lethal force (threatened or actual) is dealt with by lethal force. Why trust someone to not hurt/kill you if they've proven they have no respect for your safety, society, or the law? Their demands (e.g. your stuff) are irrelevant, as you shouldn't have to play a psychopath's game before you or the police can protect your life.

    55. Re:What could possibly go wrong by YouDieAtTheEnd · · Score: 0

      The criminal is still a human being who is protected by the same laws as other human beings. If you just go around removing people's humanity based on accusations without a fair trial to determine their innocence or guilt you wind up with death camps and summary executions. We've learnt this lesson a thousand times before throughout history and this is exactly the reason most civilized countries no longer even have the death penalty let alone allow people to be shot in the street.

    56. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      Ah, but that's just to get us used to the idea. Once the appropriate legal precedents have been set, and the pigs immunized against mistakes, it'll be a valuable tool for ensuring compliance.

    57. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      Ah, but what if he isn't a criminal? We want proof, not leads!

    58. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there are a number of steps a cop must go through in ID'ing the suspect and confirming they have a weapon. And, if they don't, they are usually officially reprimanded, if not prosecuted.

      Once the cop is far away and completely invisible and even the weapon might be invisible and you're hit by a ray from the sky, how are you going to even document it? How can you defend your civil rights against an omnipotent invisible force? My guess is, just as much as the citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan can now.

    59. Re:What could possibly go wrong by t2t10 · · Score: 1

      That would be Texas.

      Really? You think the Texas governor, legislature, or residents "don't mind" executing innocent people? Well, if only everybody were as perfect as you and wherever you're from!

    60. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It also makes for a perfect excuse. If you want to kill somebody, give them a reason to run. "Auf der Flucht erschossen" ("shot during an escape attempt") was a popular official cause of death in German concentration camps.

    61. Re:What could possibly go wrong by wildstoo · · Score: 1

      I think Rick Perry would execute his own mother if you gave him $5.

    62. Re:What could possibly go wrong by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      The smart thing is to cool the situation down rather than escalate it.

      Thank you, Mr. Chamberlain - it's nice to see a cool head in these discussions!

      We're not talking about a bunch of pissed off protesters here - we're talking about an armed-to-the-death mercenary force, many of whom have military training, operating at the behest of the most capitalistic drug-lords in existence. If you think you can "cool down" that "situation", you must be really abusing their product.

    63. Re:What could possibly go wrong by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      If the police pursuit you at high speeds they are PERFECTLY WILLING TO RUN OVER CIVILIANS.

      Well, yes, exactly. Why would this surprise you?

      The difference is that the cops take that risk while attempting to serve the public good, whereas the criminal takes that risk in order to benefit himself. It's the difference between shooting at an armed suspect, knowing you might hit a bystander, or opening fire in a crowded theater because you want to get a better seat.

      Are you honestly so dim that you can't understand why the former is ok, and the latter is not?

    64. Re:What could possibly go wrong by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      You're a fool, you speak only lies, and I hope you choke on a peanut.

      That is all.

    65. Re:What could possibly go wrong by tibit · · Score: 1

      Of course those are often the same people who are adamantly pro-life, as in human life being so valuable and shit. I think that they are just ever so slightly insane, or so I hope. At least insanity is a "reasonable" explanation...

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    66. Re:What could possibly go wrong by tibit · · Score: 1

      I always thought that a simple way of ending a chase is to, umm, stop chasing?

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    67. Re:What could possibly go wrong by tibit · · Score: 1

      In quite a few jurisdictions, you are a criminal if you are eluding police for any reason. So say you're speeding 5mph over the limit -- typically that's a civil infraction. But you don't stop after police clocks you and starts going after you. That, usually, automatically makes you a criminal (guilty of a criminal violation of the law) and makes you, according to yourself, eligible for being killed. Are you pro-life by any chance? Because I expect that sort of hypocrisy from pro-lifers. Sorry, can't resist stereotyping, but I have plenty of anecdotes.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    68. Re:What could possibly go wrong by tibit · · Score: 1

      Because they are people, just like you and me, you idiot. It doesn't take much for someone to be eluding police, and not necessarily in an initially dangerous way. Suppose you're speeding a bit, get clocked, and illegally have pot in your possession. Some people act irrationally and start fleeing. This is often a reflex reaction that's specifically triggered by the initial, often safe pursuit by police. It's the act of the pursuit that is the cause of ensuing chase. You essentially advocate killing people who have a lowered threshold for a fleeing reflex. I guess we might as well shoot everyone with Down syndrome while we're at it.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    69. Re:What could possibly go wrong by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      It will be amusing to see how law encroachment handles "Smoking" issues.

      Yeah, they been telling me most of my life that smoking would kill me. I'm reasonably sure this is not what they meant, though. Who knew?

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    70. Re:What could possibly go wrong by vaporland · · Score: 1

      I was also thinking about the poster's "Non-lethal grenade launchers are common" - yeah, they're non-lethal until you point them at someone's face - just ask the Iraqi war vet in Oakland who got beaned in the head by a tear gas canister (or was it a rubber projectile? - but i digress...)

      There's a reason that Comet, Clorox and Raid state "Do not use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling" - you can kill someone with this stuff when "applied incorrectly".

      --
      Ask Me About... The 80's!
    71. Re:What could possibly go wrong by glorybe · · Score: 0

      I think that you would be surprised at the difficulties in breaking up corruption in any governmental agency. You have to be able to offer proofs that those above you can not wiggle out of. And they are very good at wiggling. You also very quickly discover that people are in terror of job loss when they have years invested and their pensions and health care could easily be lost. When it comes to fighting corruption any tiny victory comes at a huge price to a whistle blower.

    72. Re:What could possibly go wrong by glorybe · · Score: 0

      Flight is a felony in itself. There is an assumption that a person fleeing from police, even on foot, is a danger to the public and in the past Florida cops would stop any fleeing suspect with gunfire. If you do not deal in such things that seems like a blood thirsty action. But since being shot simply for flight is no longer standard practice the number of people fleeing has risen from rare to common place. So now we have some very dangerous people escaping who often kill, rape and commit every horror known to man we also have car crashes from suspects in flight that kill the innocent and even the squad car that looses control while trying to catch suspects. We also suffer the loss of cops when a suspect wheels about and shoots a cop in foot pursuit right in the face. So we need an accounting type of approach to see what the kind act is and what the violent act is. Sadly I believe that failure to gun down subjects in flight is probably costing us a lot of deaths, destruction and expense as well. These are common issues and cops are caught smack in the middle. One cop told me that if he ran into a 15 year old waving a pistol while running from a convenience store with a paper bag full of money in the other hand and he shot the kid whether he would have trouble or not depending not on law but depending on which watch commander was on duty at the time. From a tax payer view point the problem is more whether the bad guy lives or dies. If he is well shot but not killed then the exhaustive medical care, the trial, the cost on incarceration all fall upon the city. Whereas if the suspect is dead no trial, no medical care, no prison expenses, follow the event. A live but injured suspect can cause huge loss to the tax payers. Keep in mind that innocent children go hungry in America every day. Where does justice apply?

    73. Re:What could possibly go wrong by glorybe · · Score: 0

      I have seen drunken or reckless drivers that were such an immediate threat that another citizen using a gun to stop them would be justified. And it is not a thought based upon morality but upon mercy. I have no clue as to why a car might be speeding and out of control. The driver might be having a heart attack or loaded with heroin or any number of things. But if it is obvious that a crash will most likely take place and that third parties will be severely injured or killed I think it is reasonable to act and would never find such a person guilty that stops that car either by ramming it or by shooting the driver.

    74. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

      It's the difference between shooting at an armed suspect, knowing you might hit a bystander, or opening fire in a crowded theater because you want to get a better seat.

      Are you honestly so dim that you can't understand why the former is ok, and the latter is not?

      Good example, and no, in most cases I don't think shooting at an armed suspect when bystanders are too close for a safe shot is acceptable. If the armed suspect is already wildly shooting, then shooting might be the lesser evil. Because in that case, taking him down quickly will be the lesser danger to the bystanders.

      Fortunately, most police forces seem to understand this and are not quite as trigger happy as you suggest.

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    75. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. I wish people would stop using this B.S. defense "... a very small percentage...". If a good cop knows another cop is bad, and does nothing, or protects that bad cop, then they themselves are now part of the problem -- and are themselves a bad cop. The good apples, if they're -really- good, need to throw out the bad apples -- just doing nothing is NOT good enough.

    76. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's worse than that- I live near Montgomery county... The Sheriff's departments there and in Harris county are absolutely the -last- group you'd want flying an armed UAV around. Not that other departments may be much better, but these guys could screw up a wet dream... Guys that don't meet the requirements for the DPS or a big city police department go to the Sheriff's department. If you want to strut around Conroe in your SWAT outfit showing off an ample gut, this is the department to join.

    77. Re:What could possibly go wrong by nobodie · · Score: 1

      perhaps i have just been too close to the wrong side of the law too often, but in truth, the police are sadly addicted to power, to physical force and to their mind trip that says they are better than everyone else. I had a younger friend, not a bad guy from a problematic but close knit family. He and another friend joined the sheriffs department and then he went on to the local police force. He quickly got the reputation for being vicious, physically brutal and untrustworthy. Mutual friends shake their heads these days and talk about how he "went to the dark side".

      But the sad story was the other boy who went with him and who wasn't quite tough enough to be mean has become More of a headcase.The police didn't want him and it twisted his head around. I don't want to know what he is doing to the prisoners in the jails today.

      Another guy I worked with, from a good family, poor, uneducated but honest, left the job where we were working together and was really excited to get a job as a prison guard for minimum security state prison. A week later he came back to his old job, chastened. His comment "those guards are worse than the criminals. I left because I didn't ever want to be a horrible as they were."
        The moral is that there are some truly good people in the world, but they don't go into law enforcement (or politics it seems)

      --
      Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
    78. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since you might be innocent, the state is out to get you. Definitely. Hide Mr. Edwards. Some tin foil might throw off the UAVs that are out to get you.

    79. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      is that kinda like the easiest way to make a rape end quicker? by not fighting as much?

    80. Re:What could possibly go wrong by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      The very definition of "fleeing" means the individual is not in a criminal activity. A criminal running away is a not fleeing, the criminal is obstructing justice.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    81. Re:What could possibly go wrong by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      If someone drives recklessly should they be blow to smithereens?

      If I had a homing missile-launcher in traffic, I'd be on auto-fire with that one... wow...

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    82. Re:What could possibly go wrong by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      If he runs he doesn't care who he runs over.

      And you know this because....?

      If you run and refuse to stop during high-speed pursuit you are PERFECTLY WILLING TO RUN OVER CIVILIANS.

      That's not true. I was never PERFECTLY WILLING TO RUN OVER CIVILIANS during several high speed pursuits

      I don't get shot by the cops because I don't rob other people.

      Lots of people have been shot by cops and they have committed no crime at all. If this has to happen I hope it happens to people like you

      I don't run from blue lights and crash through barricades and bounce off the fucking scenery in an effort to avoid apprehension.

      That's because you are a couchslug and have GTA down to a fine art

      Fuck yes kill those who run roadblocks and shoot back at pursuers.

      If I was shooting at my pursuers I would expect them to be shooting at me.

      How dare YOU value such people over GOOD people?

      You dont actually think you are a GOOD person do you?

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    83. Re:What could possibly go wrong by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      I suspect he has a hard-on for jesus

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    84. Re:What could possibly go wrong by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      You have a state that doesn't seem to mind executing people that might be innocent and where there's little concern for courts convicting innocent people in general.

      And which state would that be? I don't know of any such state in the US.

      Here in the rest of the world "state" is a synonym for "country" or "nation"

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    85. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With all the news about them refusing to reopen death row cases where it is very likely that the defendant will be found not guilty if a judge ever got to see the new evidence (in one recent case, the judge from the original trial actually said that if he had known then, what he knows now, he would not have convicted the guy): So do I.

    86. Re:What could possibly go wrong by tibit · · Score: 1

      I don't think he values Jesus much at all, because, according to him, a human's life loses its value if said human is driving fast in a car and happens to have police in pursuit of them. I don't exactly recall this sort of value-of-life-relativism coming out anywhere in Jesus's philosophy... Maybe I'm just ignorant, though, maybe the unearthed some new scrolls or something.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    87. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      See, I agree that the officer in this video deserves to lose his life! That is freakin rediculous. Cops have more power than an average citizen, so they have more responsibility with it. And when they abuse that power and become a criminal themselves, they need higher punishments, not lower. Death should be common for cops. I smile inside with every cop killing newspaper story I see. It's sad that I feel this way towards a whole group of people, because I know that not everyone is a bad apple. But the blue wall they support each other with doesn't help. And really, it seems they have just become a mafia organization, or at least the hit men of the government going out of control with power.

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    88. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      Yeah! OJ should have been blowed up!!!1!

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    89. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean Troy Davis? There is little reason to believe that he was innocent.

      If you mean Cameron Todd Willingham, he was convicted on what was then considered clear, scientific evidence. In retrospect, that turned out to be bogus, but that doesn't mean people don't care.

    90. Re:What could possibly go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, they were pretty accurate hitting that Navy vet in the head with a tear gas canister in Oakland.

      Dude, this isn't Dodge City.

  4. Shooting you in the groin with bean bags? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What the fuck, America?! You now have flying devices that could shoot criminals right in the genitals with bean bags? What the fuck, America?!

    1. Re:Shooting you in the groin with bean bags? by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 1

      According to audience surveys there weren't enough nut shots on "Cops".

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
    2. Re:Shooting you in the groin with bean bags? by Dripdry · · Score: 1

      I can't WAIT for the Cops episodes where they add in the "doing!" sound effects when that happens.
      Comedy. Gold.

      --
      -
    3. Re:Shooting you in the groin with bean bags? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      My lawyer just informed me that nut shots on cops is still illegal for some odd reason.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:Shooting you in the groin with bean bags? by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 1

      That's just because they don't want to pay the license fee for the appropriate music.

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
    5. Re:Shooting you in the groin with bean bags? by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      And Cops will be renamed "Ow my balls!"

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    6. Re:Shooting you in the groin with bean bags? by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      I always thought reairing a season of Cops with Three Stooges sound effects and Looney Tunes music would be ratings gold.

      I am sort of weird, though.

  5. All things being equal by jago25_98 · · Score: 1

    BigBrothers budget is set to fall.

    Fair is fair; you can build one yourself:
    http://diydrones.com/

    1. Re:All things being equal by timeOday · · Score: 1

      This will be sold as a cost-cutting measure, since a few guys operating a UAV can see a wider area than 10 guys on the ground. Or the cost could be compared to a police helicopter.

    2. Re:All things being equal by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      Fair is fair; you can build one yourself:
      http://diydrones.com/

      I just got the lovely thought of milipolice/civilian drones dogfighting above the cities. Wanna bet that sites like diydrones.com become illegal to view in the US the first time a citizen's drone shoots down a militarily-armed police drone?

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
  6. From TV into the hands of 'well-built' policemen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We get a "watchbird", flown by those two well-built policemen on the press conference... Yay!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masters_of_Science_Fiction

  7. What the hell is wrong with this country? by intellitech · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The MK-III also has more lethal options available, capable of carrying either a 40mm or 37mm grenade launcher or 12 gauge shotgun with laser designator."

    What the hell does law enforcement need a 37mm/40mm grenade launcher attached to a remote-controlled UAV for? Whatever, moving on.

    Between the political disarray of congress, the chain of administrations that spend exorbitant amounts of money on things the people don't really need, the majority of police officers who are little more than petty thugs/tools, TSA groping children in airports and performing unwarranted, "random" searches on the street, media hype/sensationalism which constantly keeps the dumb majority of the public distracted, the incredibly skewed distribution of wealth, and an overall government with a cracked model of democracy that has it's hands in way too many cookie jars, I can't say I want to live in this country any longer. It's turning into a police state, and people should not have to fear the peace keepers, law makers, or individuals which hold powerful, public offices.

    All in all, everything happening now is a perfect recipe for chaos, and I doubt anybody will realize it until it's too late.

    P.S. I like the police. They keep the peace, and living in a large city, I am grateful for that. But the majority of police officers do not deserve the title - they are frequently loose cannons, act only on instinct or emotion, pick/choose what laws they enforce when they want to enforce them, and frequently ignore laws / people's rights just to further their own agenda, career, or case. I'm friends with a few cops (detectives, actually), and some of them are good guys who I can personally say have never violated anybody's rights, but, unfortunately, they are few and far between. I'd be fairly surprised if the "good cops" make up more than 20% of the force at any given precinct across the country.

    P.S.S. "Chaos. Good news."

    --
    vos nescitis quicquam, nec cogitatis quia expedit nobis ut unus moriatur homo pro populo et non tota gens pereat.
    1. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by pryoplasm · · Score: 1

      The grenade launcher can be used for nonlethal grenades as well, such as smoke, tear gas, or what not.

      40mm is a standard military grenade size, and civillians (with many restrictions depending on where you are) can use 37mm "flare guns" that are damned close to a 40mm grenade launcher.....

      Personally, I'm a little concened of invasion of privacy, unlawful search and seisure myself....

      IANAL, but I do wonder if owning property entitles me to a certain limit of airspace over my land....just thinking

      --
      Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who live by the gun...
    2. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      the chain of administrations that spend exorbitant amounts of money on things the people don't really need

      Examples? Besides the obvious military ones?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    3. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by YouDieAtTheEnd · · Score: 0

      Here ya go: Pig Book

    4. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It should be P.P.S., for "Post Post Script" (after after-text), not P.S.S. (after text text).

    5. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The law used to be that if you owned land you owned that area from straight down to straight up, like a 3D cube. A while ago they changed it to a certain height above the building.

      I tried looking for the legislation about this but can't seem to find it.

    6. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by foobsr · · Score: 1

      All in all, everything happening now is a perfect recipe for chaos, and I doubt anybody will realize it until it's too late.

      At least you did. Sadly, however, this only qualifies (P.P.S. and sig considered) for psychological treatment these days.

      CC.

      --
      TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
    7. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by 3vi1 · · Score: 1

      >> What the hell does law enforcement need a 37mm/40mm grenade launcher attached to a remote-controlled UAV for? Whatever, moving on.

      Enforcing software patents.

    8. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dunno, I kinda like P.P.S.S., for "post post-script script." :)

    9. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      The majority of police officers are not thugs. What a fucked up thing to say. The majority of police are good and decent people. Now admittedly there are thugs in the Police forces just as they exist everywhere and sometimes even the decent cops snap and make mistakes but to make a statement like that is inexcusable.

    10. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      37 mm launches launch less then lethal only.

      Police forces in the US that use 40mm launchers actually use special 40mm launchers that can only fire less then lethal rounds because their chambers are made too short to accept actual explosive grenades. So these launchers are used for riot control for tear gas, bean bags etc. Just as the 37mm.

      Your all way too excited about this to think clearly.

    11. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by GigG · · Score: 2

      No you didn't. Pure UL. But the laws setting up the FAA and it's predecessor (sorry can't remember what it was called, it's Saturday and early) clearly gives control of the vast majority of the airspace in the US to the federal government.

      --
      Is buying a Harley Davidson as your first motorcycle since you were 16 at age 49 a midlife crisis issue?
    12. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Amouth · · Score: 1

      IANAL, but I do wonder if owning property entitles me to a certain limit of airspace over my land....just thinking

      Up to 500 ft.. after that is public air space.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    13. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by prefec2 · · Score: 1

      When I was young everyone wanted to go to the USA. Most of them even considered staying there. But today, this is different. They find it absolutely crazy to go there and that is about the young.

    14. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by spire3661 · · Score: 2

      Until i actually see one cop arrest another cop on-scene for blatant abuse of power, the perception will continue. While there are good cops, they dont do jack shit about their evil brethren. Look up the Kelly Thomas case, 4 officers stood around while 2 other officers BEAT HIM TO DEATH.

      --
      Good-bye
    15. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      FLIR is easily defeated, the $0.99 survival blankets completely block IR cameras and FLIR cameras from being effective, The cops are just lucky that criminals are too stupid to know this and use this tactic.

      Think of it as a whole body tinfoil hat invented by nasa.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    16. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      37mm grenade launchers are LEGAL for civillians to own. I have one under my AR-15. I have a pair of flare rounds and a couple of smoke rounds that came with it.

      Why did I get it? Because it makes the rifle look REALLY COOL, and everyone at the firing range oohs and ahhs all over the gun. It's like putting a wing on a car, but far less dorky.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    17. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Yup BSA raids. nothing like firing a couple of CS grenades in the face of the IT department guys when you respond to a call that they are re-using Office 2003 licenses on new computers.

      Scumbag IT guys.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    18. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      Explain Oakland Police then.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    19. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by AlphaLop · · Score: 2

      According to Fl law, you own the air rights above your property expanding out to space (I assume air rights would cease when there is no air, lol, but that is not the way the law is currently written.) and land rights under your property to the center of the earth. But eminent domain claims would be filed for usage of your air rights by the civil authorities. The government is great at taking away personal assets if it becomes an inconvenience to them. (Don't even get me started on this B.S. abuse of civil authority) As a retired law enforcement officer in a lot of ways this kind of scares me. We like to think that the best and brightest are the only people that maintain a career in law enforcement but in my experience this is not true. You have 4 basic types in law enforcement jobs. 1. The Good Cop. He is a guy/gal that actually is a genuinely decent person with a civic minded personality. (the rarest of the types) 2. The Hall Monitor. This really needs no explanation, we all know the type. 3. The bully. Again, no real need to explain. 4. The "I got picked on too much in High School and I am getting back at em by becoming a cop" cop. Actually, this is probably just another subset of the "bully" I don't want the last 3 flying drones over my home, armed or unarmed. Peering into windows and the supposed privacy of our homes and I ain't too keen on even the first type being able to. Humans tend to be voyeuristic by nature and this could be too easily abused. And law enforcement is a bureaucracy. With the same tendencies for people to rise to the level of their incompetence. It's said but ability to kiss butt and smooth talk gets you to the top of the heap and not actual ability to perform the duties required of the positions. (See our entire political process for reference). Besides, Law enforcement isn't about just stopping crime "Death from above" style. It is (supposed to be) about providing good roll models, showing a physical presence on the the streets letting the thugs and criminals that would victimize citizens know that they are there to deter them and in general help the community be a better place. Kind of hard to assist a stranded motorist or a guy being pressured into giving up his wallet without the ability to read body language and facial expressions. These are not easy things to do via a drone while sitting in an air conditioned office. The last thing any good officer should be is detached from his community. It makes it easier for them to fall into negative behaviors and abuse of authority rather than harder. At least now the bad cops still have to look the citizens in the eye, which may deter some borderline types from going bad in the first place. Oh, and it's one more tool for Skynet to use against us when the machine rebellion takes place. ;)

      --
      It's only paranoia if your wrong...
    20. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      And catching pirates, you can't forget about the pirates.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    21. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Dripdry · · Score: 1

      In the moment I think it's easy to stereotype cops, they do have a tough job, but I'm not sure it's thuggery that is the problem.

      The problem might be the over-reaching nature of their powers, and that instead of calmy explaining to the populace that they don't need a S.W.A.T. vehicle for a town of 10,000 people, they keep getting bigger and bigger arsenals, and scaring the shit out of more and more people, making those people potentially more hostile/scared/human when they encounter cops. It's a sort of terrible feedback loop, one could argue, but I'm open to another point of view.

      --
      -
    22. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by khallow · · Score: 1

      FLIR is easily defeated, the $0.99 survival blankets completely block IR cameras and FLIR cameras from being effective, The cops are just lucky that criminals are too stupid to know this and use this tactic.

      Think of it as a whole body tinfoil hat invented by nasa.

      Currently, if you're wearing that, you're obvious to anyone on the ground. And there are heat and mobility issues.

    23. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Montezumaa · · Score: 1

      I was a law enforcement officer, and I never violated anyone's rights to further anything I did professional, personally, or otherwise. Most of the guys I worked with behaved the same, with just a few exceptions. Though, even the exceptions usually were only ruffing up men that had just beat their wives, with one notable and really vivid time where a man had just beat his pregnant wife(at least six months pregnant, if not further along).

      That guy beat the shit out of his wife, and the first responder replied dragging out the scumbag by the scruff of the neck. Perhaps it was not right, but neither was the bruised and bloody mess that I saw, when I arrived. So, insofar as actual criminal are concerned: Fuck them.

      When law enforcement works to create criminals, that is one of many places I draw the line and have a serious problem with. The same goes for the legislature, which helps create criminals by criminalizing more and more activities and items. Of course, this is all due to having professional politicians and law enforcement.

      They all sit around, just thinking of things they could be doing. In the end, we get the completely fucked up system we have now.

      Are there bad law enforcement officers? Yes. Are they in the majority? Fuck no. If they were, life would be far fucking worse than it is now. You can thank selective enforcement and police discretion that we are not all locked up.

    24. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depending on the IR band you may or may not have much affect with a $0.99 survival blanket - most of the cameras you are thinking of are Mid Wave IR - basically looking at heat - many of them are sensitive enough to literally see the frictional heat generated as you walk and actually leaving thermal footprints on the ground, I guarantee it would NOT stop me from finding you ! - in Short Wave IR a thermal blanket would stand out like a flag in fact the trick Arnold used against the predator coating himself in mud actually stands a better chance of working. All in all a better idea is to not get yourself on the other end of the law.

    25. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      when you said loose cannons, i imagined that you lived here in las vegas, nv.

    26. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by KermodeBear · · Score: 1

      P.S. I like the police. They keep the peace, and living in a large city, I am grateful for that. But the majority of police officers do not deserve the title - they are frequently loose cannons

      I feel sorry for you. In the places I have lived the vast majority of the police have been good people who really do want to do the right thing. Sometimes they screw up, and once in a great while there's the rare bad apple, but on the whole they've always been great.

      Maybe that is one of the differences between living in the city and living out in the rural areas.

      --
      Love sees no species.
    27. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by 0111+1110 · · Score: 2

      What would you have done if you were standing near another cop who was beating an innocent civilian for insulting him? Would you have intervened? Would you have reported him? Would you have testified against him in court? If he filed false charges (cover charges) against the victim of the beating would you come forward to testify for the victim that the other cops were testilying and that the victim was just an innocent (except for the insult) victim of police brutality?

      Even if only 1 in 5 cops routinely violates peoples' rights, falsely arrests people on trumped up charges (contempt of cop), and beats or shoots people who don't show what they consider the proper amount of respect and fear in their presence, that is still a highly corrupt police force that is far more dangerous than any civilian group of criminals.

      It is especially bad when the Blue Wall of Silence prevents the bad cops from being punished or fired.

      Most people don't become cops because they want to help people. They become cops because they want to hurt people. The people they regard as 'scumbags' usually, but any civilian is a potential target for their rage. They usually only beat up men though. They'll torture-taze the women instead of beating them. Angry sadists without the courage to become real criminals or risk going to jail are attracted to law enforcement like flies to...

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    28. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      personal assets? like you actually own the land, buddy. try starting your own country or not paying property taxes (rent) and see how much your assets are worth.

    29. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      If those actually did block all IR emission, you'd toast. Proper thermal camo can't be done without a cooling system.

    30. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Mythbusters tried the mud trick. It works... for about a minute if you use enough mud. As soon as the mud warms to skin temperature, it's quite useless. Still makes effective visual camo though. The only material they found effective against thermal infrared was glass, and it's not very practical to carry a glass box with you.

    31. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Bragging rights.

    32. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by xs650 · · Score: 2

      The majority of police officers will cover for their thug and screw up fellow officers, therefore they are also corrupt officers. That is what is inexcusable.

    33. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From your comment, "...police officers are not thugs." I can tell four things about you.

      1. You are white.
      2. You are middle class or above.
      3. You have never participated in any sort of direct action.
      4. You are woefully ignorant about experiences other than your own.

      Being from a different background than you, I read the parents comment about 20% being decent, and thought that was overstated by about 19%. Majority of cops are racist, vicious, violent, sadistic ass-holes.

    34. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the poster's intention was to point out this drone project as an example. The Bush and Obama administrations have dumped lots of money into DHS funding for military-grade equipment for law enforcement. The video linked includes footage of another drone program involving Texas police, one that was shut down due to public outrage.

    35. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by hoggoth · · Score: 1

      > the "good cops" make up more than 20% of the force at any given precinct across the country.

      Those 20% are covering up for the "bad eggs", which puts them squarely in the "bad egg" category as well.

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    36. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like the police. They keep the peace, and living in a large city, I am grateful for that.

      You are a dumb fuck

    37. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Or do like any smart person would do - have infra-red lamps to project a pattern of heat sources that look like, gee, I don't know ... suspicious dead bodies that suddenly warm up and move around? Footprints ... including real-time "walking around and even up walls like Spiderman", and the occasional high-energy heat burst to overload the camera. A few automated-tracking laser pointers as well couldn't hurt.

      Throw in a few home-made barrage balloons (don't use helium in those converted weather balloons - hydrogen gives both a bigger payload and a MUCH bigger bang for the buck!), lots of high-test fishing line blowing in the breeze to foul the rotors (the whole thing only weights 50 pounds), maybe a few fighting kites with string coated in broken glass, same as regular kite fighting, or better yet, hooks.

      At 50 pounds, a few potato guns - or even paintball gun rounds or snowballs or a slingshot - can take one out.

      The best way, of course, if one is floating 20 feet above you is to puncture one of the hydrogen-filled balloons at ground level. The hydrogen floats upward while dispersing, until it is ignited on contact with the UAV as a very nice fuel-air bomb. (You can test this on a small scale using hydrogen in a test tube - it really works, and dispersed fuel-air explosives are very efficient).

      You could probably even take it down with a decent fishing rod - just snag the rotor and let it foul itself, then reel it in.

    38. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, let's analyze you, then.

      1. You are racist.
      2. You hate anyone with the ability to keep a job and earn money.
      3. Your "direct action" is busting the window of the local Starbucks. That's a blow against The Man!!
      4. You are woefully ignorant about experiences other than your own.
      Bonus: 5. You think you have psychic powers.

      Aren't stereotypes fun? So much easier than thinking. But enough of that.

      By the way, I'm lilly white, make $210,000 a year, live in a upscale neighborhood, and COMPLETELY agree with you about the police. My suspicion is that it's such a suck job, no one but sociopaths want it anymore. The smart sociopaths go into politics. The dumb ones go into law enforcement. And then the politicans give them military equipment. There's a pattern there.

    39. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by FoolishOwl · · Score: 1

      The Oakland Police are particularly bad.

      I'm certainly no fan of police in general. While I would agree that in general, it's a minority of officers who act as thugs, it seems to me that most police officers feel very strong loyalty to their "team", and so don't do much to rein in the thugs, who they perceive as still on their team.

      Politics makes a difference: cities with stronger public oversight over the police have less trouble with police. For whatever combination of historical reasons, the Oakland Police Department has a lot of political power in the city, and from what I've seen, you can't get elected to the city council without grovelling before the police.

    40. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, it could be there's a lot of uninhabited land down here, that no roads cross through and isn't easily navigated by land based vehicles, and a drone makes sense for taking a look at what all might be going on. I don't think they actually will mount grenade launchers on the thing, such devices have very little law enforcement utility.

      The most insidious use is probably to patrol the border. I wouldn't put it past a few of those guys down there to put the 12 gauge option on and use it, they may feel that it's a victimless crime.

      I do live in Texas, I don't lose sleep over this sort of thing. I'm used to texas government corruption and everyone from my home owners association to Governor Perry tossing taxpayer funds at local business friends. I'm content to see this as simple government corruption, not the coming of the 4th reich.

    41. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in SWIR its more about matching your background from a spectral response - Mythbusters tested against a Mid Wave IR system which is heat and what they found is true - Short Wave IR is a lot different - the mud trick would work great and would not be a function of temperature, in fact we should get them to redo that in another IR band !

    42. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First of all this drone IS NOT armed and the police chief does not have any plans to arm it. This drone was designed for use by both the military and law enforcement.... so it can be fitted with weapons (both lethal and non-lethal). However, that does not mean it has to have it. Look at it like this... when you buy a car, it is designed to support many extra features, but you do not have to get one with those features. My car doesn't have cruise control... but I can see the exact spot the buttons would be placed if I had it installed. This drone is similar. The engineers simply designed it to support them, if a buyer (such as the military) requested them.

      Also, you seem to think that the grenade launcher would only be used for explosive grenades. They can launch several other things that aren't deadly. They can launch smoke canisters to provide a smoke screen or to mark locations on the ground (which is useful for searches). They can launch tear gas canisters for riot control. They can launch flairs to provide light at night over a general area or signal things. Thank can launch infrared flairs/illumination that could be useful for SWAT missions. They can launch 'sponge grenades' which are also a type of non-lethal riot/crowd control.

      Also, while the shotgun could shoot a deadly blast, it could also use beanbag ammunition as a method for disabling someone.

      The drone is a remote helicopter that operates from a laptop. In other words, it is something that is designed to be take on-scene and is not drone made for excessively long periods of flight. This means that when it is launched, it is launched with a purpose... not just to spy on the average citizen for a couple minutes. The media is blowing the privacy concerns out of proportion. Add to this the fact that the drone isn't even armed and you don't really even have much of a story. You are only left with a poorly made news cast with a bunch of small-time local reporters trying to gain ratings by spreading fear and triggering emotional responses.

    43. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A couple of non-military examples:

      Billions of dollars in agricultural subsidies to mega-corporations that hardly need help. Not only are these economically wasteful, but in cases such as corn subsidies they are also environmentally harmful.

      A federal Education Department bureaucracy that spends about $70 billion a year and since its inception in 1979 has somehow managed not to improve student performance at all. (Non-federal spending has skyrocketed too, also with no improvement: http://reason.com/archives/2011/02/22/losing-the-brains-race)

    44. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Larryish · · Score: 2

      When a "good cop" covers up the actions of a "bad cop", for whatever reason, the line between "good cop" and "bad cop" becomes blurred.

    45. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If only we all were as equal as you.

    46. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the hell does law enforcement need a 37mm/40mm grenade launcher attached to a remote-controlled UAV for?

      Three words: Tear Gas Grenade

    47. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 1

      The majority may not be thugs but they don't try to control, change, or oust them.

    48. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Here ya go: Pig Book

      Ya gotta be careful. Those "Citizens Against Government Waste" are just a bunch of right-wing doucebags who want to see more of the same kind of "trickle-down" economics that have gotten us into this mess.

      They talk about Social Security "adding to the deficit" when it has never added even one dollar to the deficit. You never here CAGW talk about cutting out maybe a military base in Germany, though.

      Sure, it gets attention when you talk about "pigs" in government spending, but those "pigs" always end up being you and me.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    49. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      A federal Education Department bureaucracy that spends about $70 billion a year and since its inception in 1979 has somehow managed not to improve student performance at all.

      The schools are treading water because the trickle-down douchebags have been cutting local school spending. That's what the last three governors of Texas have done and then looked to the Federal Dept of Education to make up the difference.

      If there wasn't all the education cutting in Red State America so that they could give nice tax benefits to corporations and the rich, the Dept of Education might actually be able to get us somewhere.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    50. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by BarefootClown · · Score: 2

      The majority may not be active thugs, but they are at the very least silent enablers. Look at what happened to NYPD's Adrian Schoolcraft: he secretly recorded roll call, exposing police corruption. After he let the public know the truth, several officers--including supervisory officers--concocted stories to arrest him and forcibly commit him to psychiatric care.

      To the best of my knowledge, not a single one stepped up and said "hey, he's telling the truth."

      Enablers, the lot of them, and that puts them squarely on the side of the wrongdoers, more interested in their positions and their paycheques than in the safety and well-being of the citizens they are sworn to serve and protect.

      --

      "Make it ten--I am only a poor corrupt official."
      --Captain Louis Renault (Claude Rains), Casablanca

    51. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      Yes I'm white, I have a 60 thousand dollar income which makes me middle class where I live, but I have been arrested, twice, and I've heard and seen a lot in my 52 years on this Earth. Even the two times I was arrested the police were polite if a bit cold but they were professional. All the cases I've seen where there was abuse started with resisting arrest. Guess what, it happens. It's not supposed to happen and they don't always discipline the officers although that happens too sometimes. When you resist arrest there are some who love to knuckle up and beat somebody down and yes they will indulge themselves. I've also seen cops help people out too. I've seen them try their best to get people to calm down so they don't have to get into such situations. Yeah, maybe I'm lucky. Or maybe it's that (nowadays) I obey the law.

      Try this link here. Maybe it'll help you.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

    52. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by toriver · · Score: 2

      But are the bad apples and the screw-ups ever punished? That's the real question here: Will the good cops arrest the bad cops, or will they just look the other way?

    53. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by HiThere · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's not that the majority of the police are "loose cannons". Most of them aren't. But they won't discipline those who are, either. And one person doing harm can do a lot more harm that a dozen people doing good will counterbalance.

      They are, often, accessories after the fact. This isn't equally culpable as accessory before the fact, but it sure isn't innocent, either.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    54. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      OK. The last place I worked, the administrators had walnut wastepaper cans, at over $300/each.

      If you look around where you work, you will see money being spent on conspicuous consumption that adds no real value, except to show that some people can indulge in conspicuous consumption.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    55. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by HiThere · · Score: 2

      It is excessive, but not unreasonably so. When someone defends a thug, even passively, that someone is not innocent. Most police refuse to so much as say a word against a comrade who does anything short of murder...and I'm not sure about that.

      Calling them thugs is excessive. Accomplices? They are clearly "accessories after the fact", and sometimes appear to be "accessories before the fact". Under law that makes them equally guilty. (Not that law gets applied to the police very often.)

      If the laws were enforced strictly and honestly, I believe that most police would be confined in prison.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    56. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      OK. The last place I worked, the administrators had walnut wastepaper cans, at over $300/each.

      Those wastepaper cans are the jobs creators!

      Without those walnut wastepaper cans, they might not be able to attract the top management talent?

      And what's that? You want vision care? You think just because your job is sitting with your eyes glued to a monitor all day long that you deserve vision care? Fuck you. We can get people in Bangalore who are willing to go blind just to work for a year at a dollar seventy-five an hour. And you want vision care... You're a parasite, that's what you are. And we're the job creators, that's why we need walnut fucking wastepaper cans.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    57. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      What the hell does law enforcement need a 37mm/40mm grenade launcher attached to a remote-controlled UAV for?

      Stuff like that, perhaps?

    58. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Pence128 · · Score: 1

      1. Nothing in GPs post implies that.
      2. Ditto.
      4. Since GGP has confirmed GP's 1 and 2, GP has at least partial knowledge of others experiences.
      5. I guess you do to then.

      Stereotype: Noun: A widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing.

      Since the only thing you can infer about GP is that he or she is human and presumably a US American, you're just pulling stuff out of your ass. -1 troll. The rest of your post is +1 insightful.

      --
      404: sig not found.
    59. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Pence128 · · Score: 1

      It's a cultural thing. There it's really cool, here you might be considered to have a disturbing attraction to things who's only practical use is to kill people with.

      --
      404: sig not found.
    60. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by YouDieAtTheEnd · · Score: 0

      Oink, oink, oink. Happy now?

      Fact is, it buys votes so everyone does it.

    61. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When a "good cop" covers up the actions of a "bad cop" you now have two bad cops.

    62. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      ANY officer that stand there watching one of his own assult someone is just as bad as the guy pounding the life out of someone.

      If you stand there ant watch or say nothing you are as big of a scumbag.

      Honestly the lawns need to change to make officers personally responsible for their actions and can be SUED out of existance and blackballed from ever working pol,ice work again if they do what the scumbags with badges did in Oakland.

      and every officer that kept his moth shut also needs to be fired. Police should be held to a HIGHER standard than the law. if you are a cop and you are speeding off duty, you lose your job.

      Problem is it's the other way around. Cops live above the law and have no legal responsibility. they cant even be sued for misconduct.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    63. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Happy now?

      Now that you've cited three articles that say three different things?

      Fact is, the part of government spending that "buys votes" is the least onerous of all government waste. At least that money is going to Americans.

      The most dangerous government spending is the spending that buys campaign funds. That money goes to corporations, who use it to destroy workers and the middle class.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    64. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by fafalone · · Score: 1

      IMO any police officer who arrests adults for consensual activity or simply possessing a drug other than alcohol or tobacco, where no other crime has been committed and with full knowledge of the impact of a conviction, is not a good and decent person. 'Doing your job' is not an excuse for such activity for these laws any more than it was an excuse for other 'laws' that stain history. You're going to deprive someone of their freedom for months or even years and turn them into a convicted felon for life because you found them with a couple Xanax instead of a bottle of Jack? Or because they sold another adult some virtually harmless pot instead of a pack of highly addictive and carcinogenic cigarettes? You're a sadistic thug. Officers who do not participate in that kind of nonsense certainly exist, but are exceptionally rare.

    65. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by YouDieAtTheEnd · · Score: 1

      The money is always going to wind up in the hands of corporations unless you know of any anarcho-collective construction companies Uncle Sam would be willing to hire (and even they would be a form of corporation). Trying to limit funds going to people and companies outside the government is not the issue. Any government must pay people to do the work that is agreed upon by the elected representatives. The problem money is that coming into politicians' campaigns, companies, funds, etc. This money is the root of earmarks and pork barrel spending which is its reciprocal. The favoritism is the problem because it allows those with the most power and money to maintain their positions by funnelling money into the pockets of their likeminded peers.

      The only way to end this cycle of back patting and political peerage is to cut off one head of the beast. You can't cut money from government to business or nothing would ever get done so you must cut off donations to elected officials. Don't allow politicians to use mass media and provide a public alternative that is set up to allow each campaigner equal time to get their message across so that they must run on their merits and not their wallets. No one gets a fair shake when there's money to be made.

    66. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Don't allow politicians to use mass media and provide a public alternative that is set up to allow each campaigner equal time to get their message across so that they must run on their merits and not their wallets. No one gets a fair shake when there's money to be made.

      Absolutely. I agree. Publicly financed campaigns or bust.

      What were we arguing about, anyway?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    67. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      I was turned down for a job as a 911 dispatcher in northwest Arizona because I didn't believe the SWAT team should have been called out to arrest some poor bastard sitting in front of his tv smoking a bowl. Of course, since the sheriff got a cut, nobody did shit about the 3 meth labs on my street, in an unincorporated section of Mohave County.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    68. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by BoberFett · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. The US spends more per student than most of the world and gets worse results. Our education problem is cultural, not financial. The left in this country just doesn't have any idea other than "Throw more money at it."

    69. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. The US spends more per student than most of the world and gets worse results.

      Do we spend more because stuff costs more?

      Think about medical care for school employees, for example. This is a huge expense for school districts. Because we have this idiotic health care system, everything is much more expensive than other developed countries.

      We also let local school districts do things that end up costing everyone more, like changing textbooks to take out references to slavery and Thomas Jefferson and adding references to Ronald Reagan and "American Exceptionalism".

      Other countries also save a lot of money by having only one layer of bureaucracy instead of two or three that we have here (State, Local, Federal). We could save a ton of money if we made all public schools under one system, but the "states rights" groups that are worried about their kids learning how to use a condom would shit their pants.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    70. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by BoberFett · · Score: 1

      So you'd rather have a fucked up federally run system? The federal government has proven themselves good at doing one thing: siphoning massive amounts of money to politically connected corporations. I'll take states rights, thank you very much. Don't like crazy people teaching stupid shit in school? Move to a different state.

    71. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Don't like crazy people teaching stupid shit in school? Move to a different state.

      When publishing companies have monopolies on schoolbooks, what Texas does with their books ends up in my books too.

      I'll take states rights, thank you very much.

      "States' rights" used to be code for Jim Crow. I don't know you well enough to believe you are opposed to civil rights for minorities, but you ought to know that currently, "states' rights" is used as code for the mis-named, "right-to-work" states that are complicit in the destruction of the American middle-class.

      If you think "federal government" is only good at siphoning massive amounts of money to politically connected corporations, you haven't seen the contracts states are making with private prison companies or the kind of agreements people like Rick Scott and Scott Walker are making with the Koch Brothers.

      No, when red states exercise their "states' rights" it usually means federal taxpayers are going to have to pick up the pieces when they fuck up. You can exercise your states' rights when you can prove you are economically independent and responsible enough not make a mess that the rest of us have to deal with.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    72. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      Said by someone who is either a police officer, hangs around with them, or has no HANDS-ON knowledge of the subject.

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    73. Re:What the hell is wrong with this country? by YouDieAtTheEnd · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure, haha. Talking at cross purposes I guess.

  8. Anarchy parks! by 50000BTU_barbecue · · Score: 1

    Copseyes! Obscure reference?

    --
    Mostly random stuff.
    1. Re:Anarchy parks! by YouDieAtTheEnd · · Score: 0

      Haha, I always thought Niven's free parks were a great idea, if only you could be sure the copseyes would be piloted by fair and just people... or AI for that matter.

  9. So what is Slashdot, now? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 0

    The previous story was an NPR piece on US economics, now this? This isn't News for Nerds, this is some regular news site. I don't come here for this.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    1. Re:So what is Slashdot, now? by couchslug · · Score: 1

      It's not been a tech-only site for a while. Page hits are all that matter.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    2. Re:So what is Slashdot, now? by prefec2 · · Score: 3, Informative

      A weaponizable unmanned flying object is definitely a geek thing. To discuss such stuff is also a geek thing. And it has always been a geek thing to play with models of other people. Regardless the type of model, e.g., helicopter or business plan or world theory or the downfall of a society. And by the way slashdot is not only for News for Nerds, it is also for Stuff that Matter.

      And no it is not a regular news site. It is a news aggregator and discussion forum.

  10. Productivity enhancer by overshoot · · Score: 1

    This is going to be great for Texas. Their law enforcement productivity has been down lately because the court system has been a bottleneck in processing the whole tips->executions pipeline, but this tool has the potential to bypass almost all of that. They should be able to go from anonymous tip to taking out a crack house with a grenade in mere minutes.

    --
    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
    1. Re:Productivity enhancer by 3vi1 · · Score: 2

      I know you're joking, but as a Texan I must point out that we'd never bypass the justice system unless the video from the drone showed with a high degree of probability that the suspect appeared to be mentally retarded.

    2. Re:Productivity enhancer by xs650 · · Score: 1

      Then Perry better take cover when he's in Texas.

    3. Re:Productivity enhancer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...or non-white...

  11. Military Industrial Complex by rotide · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Really is amazing to watch just how far and wide the military/state is invading citizens lives.

    I know there is a happy medium between no security and full blown police state, but I'm sure we passed that line and we're accelerating towards the latter. I also know that _every_ great nation has fallen. Maybe they don't totally die, get conquered, etc, but they certainly become shadows of their former selves. Are we on the slide down now? Are we past our prime? Can we recover? I understand that anything is possible, but does it look likely or even plausible given our political climate in the US? What would it take to make things "right" again (yes, I know there are multiple views of what this means)?

    Am I just rambling and making no sense after just waking up on a Saturday?

    1. Re:Military Industrial Complex by ZankerH · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Are we past our prime?

      Definitely. Depends on who you ask, but most historians agree the USA was at its prime either during the interbellum, or the WWII - late 1950's period.

    2. Re:Military Industrial Complex by trancemission · · Score: 0

      Are we on the slide down now? Are we past our prime? Can we recover?

      The answer is yes - What has America got that the world needs? Your only export seems to be 'Entertainment' and Arms/Wars - which seem to be one and the same....

    3. Re:Military Industrial Complex by spire3661 · · Score: 2

      Wow man, you are just going full-retard today. The lower class is your FELLOW CITIZENS moron. Be careful who you dehumanize, for it may be you who is next.

      --
      Good-bye
    4. Re:Military Industrial Complex by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The US have been on the way down for a while now. If you ask me, the pinnacle was reached with the moonshot.

      But the US are an oil tanker. Even with the engines off, momentum takes you forwards a long, long while. Only problem is, once it stopped it's going to take a lot of effort and fuel to just get it moving again, and that's probably when people will be very unwilling to actually invest that. They'd have to invest a lot without getting anything close to the investment back in terms of momentum.

      Personally, I even think we have arrived at this moment already.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Military Industrial Complex by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      That's odd. When I look around in my country, we're doing just fine without protecting ourselves from the "lowlife scum". Probably because we don't treat it as lowlife scum and hence don't create an "us vs them" mentality on both sides.

      Seriously, how do you think these people will react if you treat them like dirt? Grin and bear it? Or grab arms and kill you for the 20 bucks in your wallet without thinking twice because they don't give half a shit about you, just as much as you don't give half a shit about them?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:Military Industrial Complex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what is really amazing is someone can invent a made-up sensationalized non-story, and 99% of
      slashdot takes the title as gospel truth.

      THERE IS NO WEAPONS OF ANY KIND ON THIS DRONE
      I repeat
      THERE IS NO WEAPONS OF ANY KIND ON THIS DRONE

      is has day and night vision CAMERAS to be used to follow/find fleeing suspects,
      support recon for SWAT actions, search and rescue, that kind of thing

    7. Re:Military Industrial Complex by astar · · Score: 1

      Lots of different stories.

      On sept 22, 2011, I sent a letter to the local paper about the disarray going into the DC G-20. The tag was "what will happen". I regard statistical predictions as rather silly for anything interesting, but kind of a dynamic directionality is useful to look at. So looking at the financial collapse, there is a possibility of a lot of non-economic stuff happening. If you go to wikipedia you can find by my last count 17 different definitions of (Goodwin). My definition is (Goodwin) is murderous austerity during an economic collapse. Now here are a few contextual datums.

      Drones are not a military weapon. They have no survivability in a contested air space. They are a fine terror weapon. People hear them and know that things are going to be bad. During World II, the Nazi put sirens on the Stuka's for the same reason and as soon as the air space became contested, the Stuka's were gone. Military people are starting to compare drones to roadside IED's. Dishonorable.

      Obama has chosen to kill three american citizens, far from any offical battlefield, by secret executive decree., by drone. 20 retired generals are quite unhappy. As the details come out, it looks like JSOC, and no civilians are in the chain of command, and the president gets notified after the fact. One of the dead that was individually targeted was 16 years old. The law professors are now getting enough information to be upset.

      Here is one where it looks like the President did make the decision up front. Around the first of the week, I started hearing that a lot of people in the know around the world were wondering if Obama was going down on Quaddafi's death. This was a little hard for me to process. As some details come out, here might be the organizing concept: as far as other countries are concerned, obama can kill as many americans as we let him get away with. On the other hand, assassinating heads of state is bad form. This has nothing to do with the fact that US law prohibits Obama from doing assassinations, more to do with the rules of war. What has been said (NYT?, WP?) is on the 21st Obama was given three options and he ruled out the two non-lethal options. The next day, Quadaffi was dead. And with American and French? commandos on the scene. How did Quadaffi get pinned down?-- by drone and french war plane attacks. And the unconfirmed reports are that his convoy was flying white flags. If true, war crime right there.

      Why kill Quadaffi? He has been best buddies with Blair and Obama and did all sort favors. You might note the US is trying to take over Africa for raw material supplies? One thought is Quadaffi knew too much and was not sensible about keeping his mouth shut.

      So the interesting directionality here is on one side (Goodwin) and on the other, the name newspapers, the judiciary (imminent law professors), and the retired military generals are all moving. And of course OWS. Wishful people say "no program" in OWS and there is not yet agreement. But I like G-S. Hah, Volker likes G-S, thinks its better than what he proposed, he says today,and October 7, I counted seven newspapers who explicitly cited G-S as a major demand of OWS, but almost all were foreign newspapers. :-)

      I did see a good quote though. Something like "mistrust facts that support your position". My version is not simply "mistrust facts" but more like "chose your direction and then cherry pick the facts." Oops, I am having an identity crisis here. Dah, is my name Cheney..or Obama ..or ... your favorite mass media?

      It is *good* to live now.

       

    8. Re:Military Industrial Complex by liquidsin · · Score: 1

      got any references for any of that? the best i could come up with was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate which granted is only homicide rates, but due to the way different governments classify "violent" crimes it's one of the easier stats to get a read on. the u.s. placed about 34th in 2010 with 4.8 homicides per 100k population. compare that to mexico at 18 or honduras at 78; try to imagine 16x the murders on the evening news.

      and then there's the "...as our borders collapse our society becomes less and less unified". any sources on that, or did you read it on a blog somewhere and just take it as fact? although, i probably should have just guessed you were trolling from the "lower class trash" line. stay classy.

      --
      do not read this line twice.
    9. Re:Military Industrial Complex by FoolishOwl · · Score: 1

      And of course OWS. Wishful people say "no program" in OWS and there is not yet agreement. But I like G-S. Hah, Volker likes G-S, thinks its better than what he proposed, he says today,and October 7, I counted seven newspapers who explicitly cited G-S as a major demand of OWS, but almost all were foreign newspapers.

      OWS must be "Occupy Wall Street", but what is "G-S"?

    10. Re:Military Industrial Complex by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Really is amazing to watch just how far and wide the military/state is invading citizens lives.

      No, what's REALLY amazing is that the DHS is giving grants of $300,000 per unit for these toys (that's basically what they are - 50 pound toy helicopters). That's $375 an ounce. Forget selling crack - there's more profit in selling overpriced toys in the name of security.

    11. Re:Military Industrial Complex by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      You might want to look at the number of prisoners in jails in the US compared to everywhere else

      There's a problem somewhere, and it looks mostly to be a war on people by the government.

    12. Re:Military Industrial Complex by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Drones are not a military weapon. They have no survivability in a contested air space.

      By my count, the last time the US armed force faced a truly contested airspace was 1943. Name me one country that can contest air space with the US Air Force.

    13. Re:Military Industrial Complex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are we on the slide down now?

      Yes

      Are we past our prime?

      Yes

      Can we recover?

      No

      The US gutted its manufacturing industry as a consequence of multinational corporations with no loyalty to the long term welfare of US citizens moving critical strategically important industries off shore. With development of cheap communications even service based industries have been moved offshore, bringing down prices for services. In order to pay for all this cheap stuff from overseas citizens were encouraged to borrow against their house.

      Richard Feynman once said - paraphrasing - that what makes America wealthy is not the stuff it has, but rather it's ability to make stuff. By moving manufacturing offshore it has shot it's primary wealth earner through the head.

      The issue right now isn't the debt itself; if the US had a manufacturing base it could be earning itself out of debt. The problem is that there are no industries left because they were destroyed by cheap imports, and now everyone has spent their money they don't have enough money to buy even the cheap stuff from Walmart.

      Add to this the fact that oil is quickly running out, driving up prices for everything from food to fuel and you can see that this isn't simply a temporary recession that you can simply ride out.

      The US is currently trying to export intellectual property laws into other jurisdictions because intellectual property is all it has left. Only problem is that the rest of the world will start creating it's own IP - the net gives us the power to retake our cultures - to have a huge diversity of music and film rather than depending on Hollywood and the big labels.

      And once the oil runs out all the war machines the US are so proud of become useless. Nuclear aircraft carriers are not that great if the aircraft on them don't have fuel to fly. Guess what happens when all those people the US have been bombing from 60,000 feet get the opportunity for some payback.

    14. Re:Military Industrial Complex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We've been riding a wave of momentum built up during the enlightenment by the thinkers(classical liberals and the like) for a good long while now. I'd say their ideas are pretty much rejected now by the majority, but we still have a few effects of those ideas like the scientific method and some vestiges of mutually beneficial peaceful cooperation and trade rather than mercantilism or autarky. Unfortunately, all that prosperity simply made it more worthwhile to undermine and subvert. There is a reason why this nation has the largest military the world will probably ever see. The ideas which lead to our ancestors undeniable success and expansion of wealth over the poor serfs and homeless people kicked off their lands during the enclosure movement was unprecedented in history. But without fully rejecting those opposed to such peace and wealth, inevitably those who preached fear and guilt have managed to direct more and more of that wealth their way. It is not surprising that only those ideas that do not completely condemn such thieves and murderers have still persisted. The goal is not to make us less prosperous, but to keep us productive and do it in such a way so as to sustain them. The ideas that remain from more sane times are only those that satisfy both conditions. Only bits and pieces of that more consistent and clear reasoning remain.

    15. Re:Military Industrial Complex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      China.

    16. Re:Military Industrial Complex by migla · · Score: 1

      If we want any degree of personal safety from each other we unfortunately need a police state to keep the lower class trash in line.

      No you don't. The only thing that will work is to even the socio-economic gap between the haves and the have nots. Raise taxes, give everyone more, better and cheaper health care and education and other services and more disposable income.

      With more equality, everyone is happier, according to studies. You don't need to fear the poor people anymore and they will not have as much reason to be violent criminals. Everyone wins if everyone sees society as more fair.

      I think going the police state route, while in theory doable (if you can pay for it, you can have enough police), will make you less happy even if it works (well, maybe not you specifically, but rich people in general, at least).

      But I think you might not afford it. There are a lot of poor people to keep down and the tighter you try to pin them down, the more pissed they'll be.

      --
      Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
    17. Re:Military Industrial Complex by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Ha ha ha ha ha ha...no. In twenty or thirty years they may be able to seriously challenge US control of the air, but right now, no.

    18. Re:Military Industrial Complex by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The US is extremely disorderly and has vast numbers of violent criminals compared to most modern nations. The police didn't create them.

      Nope, your every-man-for-himself social and economic policies did that.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    19. Re:Military Industrial Complex by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      He said violent criminals. Most of the people in prison in the USA are non-violent people who are guilty of taking different narcotics from the ruling classes.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    20. Re:Military Industrial Complex by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      He said violent criminals. Most of the people in prison in the USA are non-violent people who are guilty of taking different narcotics from the ruling classes.

      Pretty much, yeah. Keep in mind that the largest available pool of cheap/slave labor are convicts, and you'll understand why 'rehabilitation' went the way of the dodo. Why rehabilitate somebody when you can marginalise them, and when they return to crime because they cannot find a job, even, excuse the expression, at gunpoint, they'll return to the prison system labor force within a year or so. Keep also in mind that more and more prisons are becoming privately owned, which means the 'guard force' is being paid minimum wage to be there, and in some states, Arizona, for instance, a prisoner's 'earnings' are attached for 'room board and upkeep', and those private prisons become real money-makers once you get a few companies 'behind the wall'.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    21. Re:Military Industrial Complex by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      I'm not really worried about Obama "killing" Americans. These people were clearly engaged with foreign enemies on foreign soil, planning attacks... He ordered rocket attacks on the camp, done. Rember the Army doesn't have any requirement or even right to arrest you on foreign soil taking arms against them. They just blow you up.

      What you have are the people trying to make what Bush started somehow better than that. Bush had US citizens arrested, ON US SOIL, and TAKEN OFF US soil to Gitmo where their rights could not be determined. There is a world of legal difference between bombing a known terrorist enclave and leaving no survivors and deporting citizens rounded up by police inside your own borders.

      We blow terrorists camps up all the time.. Those people were SOMEBODY'S citizens... Why would the President NOT blow one up just because an American was there?

    22. Re:Military Industrial Complex by astar · · Score: 1

      glass-steagall. HR 1489? 44 cosponsors. Return to prudent banking act. G-S came out in 1933 and was fully repealed in 1999. G-S prevents commercial banks from engaging in risky behavior. I need to run but I am happy to comment further if you have an interest herein.

    23. Re:Military Industrial Complex by astar · · Score: 1

      Yah, US air force can be that way. Here is a useful link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_87. Now suppose we have an aircraft that can not defend itself and has a siren mounted to terrorize civilians. At some point of intention, it has become a terror weapon.

      Do you want to say that a terror weapon, used as such, is a weapon of war

    24. Re:Military Industrial Complex by vaporland · · Score: 2

      Middle class income and domestic manufacturing employment peaked in 1977. At that time, a high-school grad could make a good living as a machinist, welder or in some other responsible trade.

      A few NAFTA-type agreements and many financial regulatory repeals later, HS grads can't find a job that would support any family with any level of comfort.

      I'd say we hit our peak in '77. Been downhill ever since.

      --
      Ask Me About... The 80's!
    25. Re:Military Industrial Complex by astar · · Score: 1

      "clearly engaged with foreign enemies" is not a crime, Being on foreign soil does not preclude being outside the US legal system, including an obligation by the US to provide due process. Recalling that we are dealing with secret decrees, it appears to me that the drone attacks were made *because* the americans were there. so we have assassination and not on any reasonable field of battle and no claim that these guys were bearing arms. And the 16 year old was months ago and that one is so unsupportable that it is not being acknowledged.

      Now you claim Obama ordered the hit. But the word is that he has given JSOC authority on its own to prepare hit lists, execute people, and tell him after the fact. Oh, and there are no other civilians in the command chain.

      Here is something that came over my desk today. Sort of part of the European view:

      Denmark Features Obama Administration's Liquidation of Terror Suspects
      October 30, 2011 10:41AM

      "The U.S. is liquidating terror suspects as never before," was the title of a major article in the Danish daily Information on Oct. 28. The Information article then became a major story in other Danish media yesterday, including Denmark's largest newspaper Jyllands-Posten, and both DR and TV2, the two leading electronic media in the country.

      The Information article began:

      "License to kill anyone, anytime and anywhere. In practice, that is the right U.S. President Barack Obama has given the CIA and U.S. special forces.

      "Since the Democrats took power in the White House, the number of terrorist suspects who have been killed by unmanned aircraft and U.S. special forces, has multiplied. A review of published data from U.S. agencies, NATO and independent researchers show that at least 5,742 people have been murdered by U.S. forces since January 2009. At least 1,877 of them have been killed by unmanned drones, while the rest were shot during so-called 'capture or kill' operations which U.S. special forces have conducted thousands of times in Afghanistan.

      "During Obama's administration, the unmanned drones and U.S. special operations have evolved from being a weapon that was used in exceptional cases, to constituting the most important weapon in the war on terror."

    26. Re:Military Industrial Complex by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      He's running a War. Blowing things up is what you do. Bush and Cheney kept trying to make fighting terrorists some kind of political police action. That kept their cronies in Halibutton and Blackwater on the dole. That's not the Army's mandate. They blow shit up, not "arrest" people.

      No more people in camps ratting out their neighbors.. No more trying to twist the Constitution. WAR means KILLING enemies... Not taking names and making power deals. That's what Wilileaks proved was going on for years. The CIA is an agent of War, that's why Congress forbid them to pretend to be police for so many decades.

      We got so used to BushCo spinning the terrorism thing, that we forgot what WAR looked like. Obama wants this thing wrapped up. We have the opportunity to be "kicked" out of Iraq which gives their Govt brownie points with the citizens... That's a good start. We need to mop this thing up. Get out of the way and let the Army kill things... It's what they do best.

      But I stand by the earlier statement. The Army and CIA are not police. They don't have to have evidence to blow shit up. If you are a US citizen plotting with foreign agents it's their job to blow you up along with the rest, not "arrest" you... That's what WAR means when you are a traitor. There's no "Constitutional" issues here... This is basics of War and Traitors 101. This is what BushCo should have been doing instead of playing around in Gitmo.

    27. Re:Military Industrial Complex by astar · · Score: 1

      Hee, does "traitor" have the same meaning as "committing treason"? If it does have the same meaning to you, you need to go read the constitution. :-)

      And "plotting with foreign agents" is usually not a crime.

      Oh well. I guess it clear that you think POTUS has the power to declare war and so everywhere in the world has become a war zone. Assassination therein is still illegal, but slight of hand is easier.

       

    28. Re:Military Industrial Complex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I fear to think at what point we'll be at in the future, when someone will say our patently obvious growing police state was at a prime!

      The story-tellers seem to have really ramped out the idea factory for the powers that be.

  12. Lightly killed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mostly, for law enforcement, we focus on what we call less lethal systems,' he said

    As a military pilot, I loled.

  13. Awesome by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

    The drive to College Station was alway wrought with speed traps and cops dumber than Barny Fife. Now we have RoboCop. Living in Texas is aaaawesome.

    --
    Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
  14. you misspelled "peaceful-demonstrators" by Lexible · · Score: 1

    as "c h a s i n g - p e r p s".

  15. What the? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How the HELL do you NOT Godwin this kind of crap?

    1. Re:What the? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Because both the Nazis and the Commies only dreamed of what has become possible only recently.

      Seriously, I can see Mielke (former Stasi boss) weep with an "if only we had survived another 20 years" on his lips.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:What the? by rtfa-troll · · Score: 1

      How the HELL do you NOT Godwin this kind of crap?

      Godwin has clearly stated that his law doesn't apply to legitimate comparisons with Nazi Germany. At the point where the police are acquiring military grade spying equipment in a country where listening in on phone calls and using thermal cameras against citizens have been interpreted as not requiring judicial oversight I don't possibly see how you could Godwin this discussion.

      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
    3. Re:What the? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      My history is a little bit rusty, but I'm pretty sure Hitler didn't have killer flying drones. Except maybe in the Wolfenstein series...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  16. Wrong story by iamhassi · · Score: 5, Informative

    The story isn't the drone. The story should be that the Montgomery County Sheriff's Office in Conroe, TX just paid $300,000 for a R/C helicopter from a company that just happens to be in Conroe, TX, with a business website has only been in operating for a year.

    Police giving $300,000 to new local company for a toy? Why do I feel like this was a scam, that someone in the police force just made $250,000+?

    --
    my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    1. Re:Wrong story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention what the fuck does a sheriff in Conroe, Texas need a goddamn drone for? This isn't downtown Houston, this is bumfuck Texas (with suburbs).

    2. Re:Wrong story by iamhassi · · Score: 2

      To justify spending $300,000, which puts $290,000+ in his pocket

      Wish I was joking about the price. This ebay powerseller sells large (man-sized) R/C helicopters for $1,500-$2,000 with motor, batteries, radio, etc
      http://www.ebay.com/itm/200660268060
      http://www.ebay.com/itm/200657942941

      I understand that the helicopter from Vanguard has a remote camera and screen which I'm sure increases the price but $298,000 for a remote camera seems high.

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    3. Re:Wrong story by GigG · · Score: 2

      Not to mention what the fuck does a sheriff in Conroe, Texas need a goddamn drone for? This isn't downtown Houston, this is bumfuck Texas (with suburbs).

      Large are to patrol. Small number of deputies. Counties are BIG in Texas.

      --
      Is buying a Harley Davidson as your first motorcycle since you were 16 at age 49 a midlife crisis issue?
    4. Re:Wrong story by iamhassi · · Score: 1

      And please understand I'm not bashing the idea of R/C helicopter drones for police use, I believe anything to get rid of police helicopters is a great idea because helicopters are horribly expensive. An inexpensive police helicopter costs 700k+ (pdf) and can easily reach millions and costs about $2,500 an hour to operate. So you can see how a drone could pay for itself in no time.

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    5. Re:Wrong story by ironjaw33 · · Score: 1

      To justify spending $300,000, which puts $290,000+ in his pocket Wish I was joking about the price. This ebay powerseller sells large (man-sized) R/C helicopters for $1,500-$2,000 with motor, batteries, radio, etc http://www.ebay.com/itm/200660268060 http://www.ebay.com/itm/200657942941 I understand that the helicopter from Vanguard has a remote camera and screen which I'm sure increases the price but $298,000 for a remote camera seems high.

      Service or support? Someone has to train the deputies how to fly it as well as fix it when it breaks. Not to say that that justifies the cost either.

    6. Re:Wrong story by mbone · · Score: 1

      Counties are BIG in Texas.

      Gee, what did they do in 1911 ? Use dirigibles ?

    7. Re:Wrong story by xclr8r · · Score: 1

      I'll take the higher expense helicopter.
      I don't want 50 of these drones flying over a city near you.
      I want one person, the pilot, solely responsible for that flying vehicle in the air where his neck is on the line - so he can say with certainty "this vehicle is not fit to fly due to maintenance/etc.". Not some gamer cop that can blame the failed operation on a Windows (non systems critical operations O/S) blue screen or wireless interference. Or lose control of the vehicle to a cracker who will turn this against the police force trying to use it or sabotage it in a dangerous way to make the cops look bad.
      I want the expensive helicopter to be used when it really matters.. not a 24/7 toy.
      I want something that is subject to FAA rules on things like minimum operating altitudes where the pilot can lose his license... not some laptop heli toy that you can not hear coming that can do fly-bys in your backyard while your kid is jumping on a trampoline.

      --
      Beware of those who profit off the docile and persecute the unbelievers.
    8. Re:Wrong story by KermodeBear · · Score: 1

      The money came from a Homeland Security grant.

      --
      Love sees no species.
    9. Re:Wrong story by Animats · · Score: 1

      Good point. Their site reads "Did you know that you could possibly get your UAV funded through the DHS?"

      DHS needs a budget cut. The US is doing quite well against terrorism, no thanks to DHS. What's left of al-Queda is living in fear of suddenly facing either a Predator or a SEAL team. The most recent "terrorist" (more like a wannabe) taken down in the US was found by the FBI and the Massachusetts State Police, and he's on trial in Boston.

    10. Re:Wrong story by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Do you really believe the story? Or is the story purposefully put out there by the authorities so they can convince us that we need to further fund the killing and groping agencies?

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    11. Re:Wrong story by westlake · · Score: 1

      Large are to patrol. Small number of deputies. Counties are BIG in Texas.

      In 2010, the U.S. Census Bureau estimated Montgomery County's population to be 455,746, a 55.14% growth rate in the ten years from the last U.S. Census ---making the county the 24th fastest-growing county in the United States.

      The county seat is Conroe. The Sheriff has 1,000 square miles to patrol.

      Montgomery County, Texas

    12. Re:Wrong story by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1
      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    13. Re:Wrong story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      come on dude, tech 101. the money is never made off the the product sale, it's off of the services and support. the $300,000 pays for the company to continue existing a bit longer.. the dude on the police force will be making money with kickbacks for when 'omg beanbag fired tazers instead' happens

    14. Re:Wrong story by vaporland · · Score: 1

      that would actually make me feel better - hopefully they are incompetent. as a friend of mine once said "let the corruption in the system work for you..."

      --
      Ask Me About... The 80's!
    15. Re:Wrong story by GigG · · Score: 1

      Horses I would suspect. Does that mean they should use them now?

      --
      Is buying a Harley Davidson as your first motorcycle since you were 16 at age 49 a midlife crisis issue?
    16. Re:Wrong story by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      I have a Police-HeliCam and it was less than $200AU. Seriously though they got ripped big time. I could have made one of these 'toys' for a lot less money and still made a nice profit. The subbies I used would have done well out if at also. Wonder how it works with laser pointers?

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    17. Re:Wrong story by Geminii · · Score: 1

      I was going to ask how much the drones cost, and what's the cheapest method someone could think of to have a 50% or better chance of bringing one down? Rifle bullet? Toy rocket? Quadcopter with target tracker and some explosive?

  17. Security by Hentes · · Score: 1

    I wonder how secure they are, it would be pretty bad if some of them got hacked by malicious people.

    1. Re:Security by prefec2 · · Score: 1

      All the stuff the government uses is totally save. Look at the German Trojan Horse. errr. never mind.

    2. Re:Security by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Well, they can always claim that's what happened. You know their word is good. In fact it's nearly the definition of honesty.

      Pravda: The truth. Also the official word. (Russian)
      Maat: The truth. Also the official word. Also, a vulture headed goddess. (Egyptian. Archaic.)

      There's probably lots of equivalent definitions.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  18. shoot it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great idea! First you fly around a clay pigeon with a sheriff's logo on it to train the bad guys, and when it gets shot down and you don't have the funds for a new one, you put regular officers back in.

    I wouldn't want one of these things on my squad.

  19. what a hysterical story by khallow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Weaponizable" just means that you can add a weapon, not that the vehicle has one. Police departments already have plenty of "weaponizable" things, you can add rocket launchers to patrol cars or give a nuclear bomb to a patrol officer. (Yes, that's right, a patrol officer can destroy an entire city! You heard it here first!)

    FWIW, the police department has described uses that don't use weapons (various recon/patrol functions), while the CEO of the business pumped the weaponization capabilities. Could a future police department have a fleet of armed UAVs? Absolutely. But that hasn't happened yet.

    1. Re:what a hysterical story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Doesn't really matter. There is no justification for giving military weapons and recon platforms, and that's what this is, to civilian law enforcement. None. I don't care about the War on $Issue (TM), the alleged rise in violent crime (a lie) and pretty much any other excuse they care to come up with. The militarization of the police has got to stop because the police manage to prove they cannot be trusted pretty much every day. Yes, I know there are good cops, but the problem is that policing as a profession has a horrible track record concerning getting rid of those who don't belong in it. One of the types of people the profession seems to attract is the sort who simply enjoys intimidating and abusing other people. Those of you who are cops who are not like that, how about doing something about the ones who are? That might actually restore some credibility, because the truth of the matter is you all look the same in body armor behind masks holding weapons on people armed with tents and bottled water trying to make a political point.

    2. Re:what a hysterical story by prefec2 · · Score: 1

      It is bad enough that it is an UAV for surveillance purposes. I do not want to have flying UAVs or MAVs flying over my town. And I want a demilitarized zone inside my city.

    3. Re:what a hysterical story by GigG · · Score: 0

      "Weaponizable" just means that you can add a weapon, not that the vehicle has one. Police departments already have plenty of "weaponizable" things, you can add rocket launchers to patrol cars or give a nuclear bomb to a patrol officer. (Yes, that's right, a patrol officer can destroy an entire city! You heard it here first!) FWIW, the police department has described uses that don't use weapons (various recon/patrol functions), while the CEO of the business pumped the weaponization capabilities. Could a future police department have a fleet of armed UAVs? Absolutely. But that hasn't happened yet.

      +1 Cluefulness

      --
      Is buying a Harley Davidson as your first motorcycle since you were 16 at age 49 a midlife crisis issue?
    4. Re:what a hysterical story by GigG · · Score: 1

      RC aircraft timeline.
      Civilians -> Military -> Police

      --
      Is buying a Harley Davidson as your first motorcycle since you were 16 at age 49 a midlife crisis issue?
    5. Re:what a hysterical story by chrb · · Score: 1

      "Weaponizable" just means that you can add a weapon, not that the vehicle has one. Police departments already have plenty of "weaponizable" things, you can add rocket launchers to patrol car

      In the context of military procurement, "weaponizable" means that the equipment has been specifically designed to enable weapons to be added relatively quickly and easily in a modular way. It does not mean "this thing is hypothetically capable of attaching weapons if you are the A-Team", because as you point out everything is "hypothetically weaponizable" if you are willing to modify it. To counter your example, patrol cars would not be described as "weaponizable" procurement items unless they had specific features that made them so, such as reinforced chassis mount points that had been designed for attaching and firing artillery.

    6. Re:what a hysterical story by khallow · · Score: 1

      Consider the source. It's a Slashdot headline, not a military procurement source. We don't know that these drones are actually weaponizable in the sense of military procurement.

    7. Re:what a hysterical story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Weaponizable" just means that you can add a weapon, not that the vehicle has one. Police departments already have plenty of "weaponizable" things, you can add rocket launchers to patrol cars or give a nuclear bomb to a patrol officer. (Yes, that's right, a patrol officer can destroy an entire city! You heard it here first!)

      There is a huge difference between a weapon under immediate control of a human versus a remote controlled weapon operated by someone who could be a great distance away,. They should be illegal in war and they especially should be illegal for civilian police forces and most especially, it ought not to happen here in the USA. Yes, the damn thing does not have weapons YET, but that's a big yet. Why do we allow such things to be even marketed for those purposes ?

      Look at what happened to Tasers. They came around as non-lethal solution and now there are hundreds of events where the police misuse them in situations where no violence was required at all. And of course, they are not quite a non-lethal as claimed. Many have already died needlessly.. Left to continue, there will come a time when almost all police response includes use of a drone or even that drones respond first.They may not all carry weapons, but would you know that if you happened to be on the ground close by when it happened ? How would you feel about your freedom then ?

    8. Re:what a hysterical story by chrb · · Score: 1

      The manufacturer says they are: "Working in close cooperation with the Department of Defense, Vanguard is responding to the needs of today’s warfighter to field an unmatched UAS. Available to DoD components are the MK III-T, MK IV-T, MK III-P and MK IV-P. These aircraft offer not only extended ISR capabilities but all four variants can be weaponized with select payloads to include but not limited to 40mm grenade launchers, full and semi-automatic small arms, as well as a multitude of SIGINT collection units." - Vanguard Defense.

  20. How is this any different? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How is this any different for privacy concerns than flying around a manned helicopter ... that many, many police departments do currently?

    1. Re:How is this any different? by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      COST. We dont mind cops out watching us, but we dont want to give them the unlimited ability to do it either. Historically we limit them by budget. If we start implementing cheap surveillance, we lose that cost control.

      --
      Good-bye
  21. DAMN YOU GEORGE BUSH!!!! by Vinegar+Joe · · Score: 0

    Only 2 1/2 months till Obama is inaugurated..........I can't wait!

    --
    "The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
    1. Re:DAMN YOU GEORGE BUSH!!!! by toriver · · Score: 1

      George H. W. Bush Sr.
      George W. Bush Jr.
      Barack H. Obama Bush Copycat.

    2. Re:DAMN YOU GEORGE BUSH!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      huh?
      You've lost quite a few people. Please explain.

  22. Sounds like Texas to me... by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

    A remote controlled aircraft armed with a shotgun fired by someone sitting comfortably in a chair. I think we heard of a similar program there some years ago that intended to "bring hunting to the disabled". Now they just changed the prey...

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  23. Urban unrest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is not designed for regular policing, and would have little if any use in day to day operations. Helicopters are used for large sporting events to coordinate resources on the ground with the aerial view giving a big picture. But TFA does not even try to use this justification. The words used are 'hunting criminals', and ` SWAT team officers are facing an active shooter`

    I've never been to the states so I do not know how frequent these events are, but imagine not frequent enough to justify this type of acquisition.

    So where could a tool like this become useful?

    The first major deployment of aircraft for population control was the Indian subcontinent. Around 1915-1922ish, aircraft were deployed and used to quell urban unrest. With relatively few servicemen able to command vast areas. The subcontinent included India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

    More recently, the UAV has been used to spy-on and assassinate potential adversaries in the middle east, covering vast areas and again utilizing minimal personnel. Assassination seems to be preferred over capture and rendition as captives eventually talk.

    Is the US expecting large-scale social unrest?

    If the answer is yes, it seems the government have chosen their defense strategy. If not, well, once police forces acquire a tool they tend to use them, and don't like to give them back. Both scenarios are worrying.

    As an outsider looking in, I see the US as going through a metamorphosis similar to that of Germany in the 1920s. The TSA could be compared to the early days of the Sturmabteilung (SA, or stormtroopers.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung

    I hope I am wrong.

    1. Re:Urban unrest by JazzHarper · · Score: 1

      Montgomery County is rural (pine forest) and suburban. The county covers a large area; the population density is relatively low. The only large crowds are at high school football games. The population tends to be affluent and very conservative. The county does have to deal with fleeing suspects and fugitives (particularly from Harris County, to the south) fairly frequently, and helicopters are often used to track them on the roads and in the woods. The pine forest does not have a dense canopy--in many areas, looking down on it is the best way to find someone. I can see that a UAV could be a much less expensive way to address that need than a manned helicopter (although the fact that the vendor just happens to be a local business raises suspicion of cronyism). The speculation of how such a platform might be armed was an easy way to sensationalize the story.

    2. Re:Urban unrest by Larryish · · Score: 1

      When (if?) this comes to pass, remember that a length of cord is portable, fairly silent, and can be fashioned from a wide variety of materials.

      After you remove an armed adversary, you can equip yourself from his/her possessions.

      "I don't need no damned Marines, or air support or M-16s. Give me a cord, give me a knife, show me a man. I'll take his life."

    3. Re:Urban unrest by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Is the US expecting large-scale social unrest?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84

    4. Re:Urban unrest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like a person who has no access to another passport. Wonderful, he's just as stuck here as I am. Now that is a REAL American!

  24. Stun baton? by Culture20 · · Score: 1

    "engage somebody at altitude" with a hand to hand weapon? Does this UAV transform into a humanoid? Or maybe they plan on stunning skydivers (who then can't pull their ripcords).

    1. Re:Stun baton? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [...] or a gun that fires bean bags known as a 'stun baton.'

      Right there in the summary, genius.

    2. Re:Stun baton? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yup. they are called stun baton rounds.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baton_round
      they look like this :
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rubber_bullet.jpg

    3. Re:Stun baton? by blackicye · · Score: 1

      TFA seems to suggest that these batons are bean filled bags which will be launched at the targets, and not so much hand to hand weapons.

    4. Re:Stun baton? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stun baton aka beanbag round, flex baton, LL shotgun shell... Picture a fabric or blastic bag the size of a digit maybe and filled with lead shot. Has the mass to take the wind outta you but on impact deforms to spread the KE transfer over a huge area compared to a BOOLIT. Not something I would want aimed at me, particularly from above (head shot!!!) but definitely kinder and gentler than "going lethal".

  25. Blue Thunder not so unreal after all... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh man I'm getting Blue Thunder vibes.
    That film was prophetic (except nowadays we get uavs instead).

  26. Nice. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Police have shown such restraint lately where the rights of the people are concerned, I don't see any reason not to give them Military weapons to engage civilians with...

  27. Welcome our next totalitarian episode in history by prefec2 · · Score: 2

    The best thing to keep the crowd down is divide and conquer and of course good surveillance and a quick response force. But surveillance is of greatest importance. It is required for the divide and conquer strategy and it is important for the quick response force. So to achieve the required basics for a totalitarian system you need such stuff.

    On the other hand. Democracy works best with out suppression and a homogeneous economic situation for the people, meaning the poor and the rich are not that far apart.

    However, in modern western societies, we decided that it is not a problem that the poorer get poorer and that there are more poor people every day, so democracy is no longer working. In a democracy the rich could not get away with so much money. This has nothing to do with jealousy. I do not need my own yacht or villa. Actually I am quite comfortable. The problem is that there are so many people who are not "quite comfortable". They suffer. And they are angry. Right now they are not organized and they are not able to fight for themselves. As this might chance, the state (as in the control structure) has to ensure the safety of those who are "quite comfortable" or above.

    In a state (as in the organization of the people for common interests) would obviously address the issue and get the money from the rich for all those necessities of life. Healthcare, pensions, streets, schools, universities, unemployment insurance/guaranteed minimal income, and safety (as in safety for all) etc. BTW a good guaranteed minimal reduces violence and increases safety.

  28. Laser designator.. for a shotgun? by Kaenneth · · Score: 1

    I'm not a gun expert by far, but... is high accuracy really applicable to a shotgun?

    1. Re:Laser designator.. for a shotgun? by GigG · · Score: 1

      I'm not a gun expert by far, but... is high accuracy really applicable to a shotgun?

      It is if you want to hit anything.

      --
      Is buying a Harley Davidson as your first motorcycle since you were 16 at age 49 a midlife crisis issue?
    2. Re:Laser designator.. for a shotgun? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      It's quite accurate... if you don't care who or what you hit and only want to hit some of the protesters so the rest disperses...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Laser designator.. for a shotgun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IAAGE (I Am A Gun Expert)

      I have been a licensed firearms dealer for ten years, selling rifles and shotguns. For most purposes, the point of having a shotgun is so you don't have to worry as much about your aim. This is why they are typically favored for shooting clay pigeons or defending your home in the middle of the night (and yes, I know people who have caught a fugitive climbing in their daughter's window in the middle of the night, running from the police... this is something that actually happens). One of the 9 to 40 pellets you are firing is likely to hit your target. A laser does nothing for you in this situation except make you think you look cool because you saw a laser on a gun in a movie once.

      Usually a laser is only really useful on a shotgun when you are shooting slugs (large, bullet-shaped hunks of metal), because you are only shooting one projectile. I imagine they want it in this case because they are shooting non-lethal beanbags, which are also single projectiles. It's also possible that the laser is used as a kind of rangefinder for the equipment... people rely on depth perception when shooting, machines have to emulate that somehow.

    4. Re:Laser designator.. for a shotgun? by blackicye · · Score: 1

      The laser designator is probably intended primarily to intimidate the target, or to direct ground personnel to the target.

    5. Re:Laser designator.. for a shotgun? by blackicye · · Score: 1

      Oooh or maybe it's to designate terrorists so that Laser guided munitions can be delivered onto them!

    6. Re:Laser designator.. for a shotgun? by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Shotguns can fire solid slugs, or as is probably the case here, bean-bag rounds. A laser sight is even more important when it's a mechanical device doing the shooting (much harder to aim via remote).

    7. Re:Laser designator.. for a shotgun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dispersion of the shot depends on the type of choke on the shotgun and how far away the target is. However, with any kind of shell in the shotgun you still want to aim as close to dead on as possible to ensure maximum damage.

      Even with a shotgun your aim does matter. It also can't be easy to hit a moving target with a aerial drone that's in pursuit.

    8. Re:Laser designator.. for a shotgun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. Depending on the type of choke on the barrel and whether you're using birdshot (tiny, just about .05 inches in diameter), buckshot (pea-sized, about .35 inches in diameter), or a slug (solid cylinder, about .75 inches in diameter and varies in length depending on the type of cartridge), shotguns can be marvelously accurate. A choke, for those unfamiliar, tapers the barrel down further, thus concentrating the spread of shot as it leaves the barrel. Think of it like putting your thumb over a garden hose - the smaller the end of the hose, the further the water will travel.

      For birdshot, typical spread over distance is about 1.5 inches for every meter (with no choke) - not particularly useful against humans over distance (but effective against flying targets at a great distance, hence the name). For buckshot, typical spread over distance is about 1.5-2 inches every 3-3.5 yards (again, with no choke). If a choke is applied, you can easily send buckshot 30-40 yards (40+ with some chokes) without getting larger than a chest-sized pattern. Slugs go in a straight line and obviously don't disperse, given they're a single, solid projectile. A person who is a decent shot can easily send a slug fired out of a magnum cartridge (three inches long, instead of the usual 2.5 or 2.75 inches and has a higher quantity of explosive powder) 50+ yards with acceptable accuracy.

      But a 40mm grenade launcher? WTF?

      (Hope that answered your question, good sir!)

    9. Re:Laser designator.. for a shotgun? by Misagon · · Score: 1

      I would also question the use of a shotgun from a UAV. A shotgun is only usable at relatively close range. The shots disperse, meaning that there is an increased risk of hitting other things than the intended target the farther you are from the target. You will have to be able to assess the distance to your target to use it accurately.
      I am afraid that with the shooter not being at the scene, seeing the scene only in a monitor, there is a much larger risk of the shooter assessing the distance incorrectly.

      --
      "We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
    10. Re:Laser designator.. for a shotgun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not a gun expert by far, but... is high accuracy really applicable to a shotgun?

      Shotguns don't have the blast radius people think. At a distance of 50 ft., the spread pattern of buckshot is still almost perfectly circular and not much wider than an average man. You wouldn't fire it if there was an object close by you did not intend to hit even if you were a police officer, but that's primarily because limits of the shooter's accuracy, not the weapon. Even greater accuracy can be had with slug loads, which act like bullets and have no spread pattern at all.

    11. Re:Laser designator.. for a shotgun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. Shotguns are nowhere near as inaccurate as the piss-poor range, giant spread, horribly inaccurate smoothbore guns you see in video games.

    12. Re:Laser designator.. for a shotgun? by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "Shotguns don't have the blast radius people think."

      Actually, loaded with the Frag-12, you have KILLER blast radius.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    13. Re:Laser designator.. for a shotgun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, if it's firing a baton round, such as a bean bag or plastic bullet.

  29. JUSTICE FROM ABOVE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please note the tacit assumption that any targets this thing takes on are already criminal, which used to mean "person convicted of a crime". Here, not even allegedly so. And by that assumption any targets easily become acceptable targets.

    I for one welcome our new airborne judge overlords.

  30. Suggestion for those in Montgomery County: by mrquagmire · · Score: 1

    Target practice.

    --
    giggity
    1. Re:Suggestion for those in Montgomery County: by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      I can see it being a sport in the local area. Instead of finding spots to conceal yourself from ducks you can head to the UAV-hide. probably wouldn't take much to knock one down.

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
  31. Hacking by timmans · · Score: 1

    I bet the hackers are going to love to play around with this. Just imagine if the C&C frequency can be hacked...

  32. Whats next? by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    I hope this thing, and any like them, gets shot out of the sky and destroyed by citizens who still care about the constitution.

    1. Re:Whats next? by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      I hope this thing, and any like them, gets shot out of the sky and destroyed by citizens who still care about the constitution.

      I just think it's amazing that the Founders were prescient enough to write "Thou shalt not give remotely sensing flying doohickeys to thy local constabulary" into the Constitution.

  33. And the escalation continues. by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    It will be only a short time before drug lords and other baddies start getting anti aircraft missiles to take out the UAV's.

    Do we really want the police encouraging the criminals to upgrade weaponry?

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:And the escalation continues. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I doubt that. Causing the government to declare martial law isn't good for anyone's business.

    2. Re:And the escalation continues. by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "It will be only a short time before drug lords and other baddies start getting anti aircraft missiles to take out the UAV's."

      That becomes war, at which point it becomes reasonable to simply kill all the drug lords and tidily end the problem.

      We tolerate a high degree of organized crime because it supplies many things the public desires and we refuse to end the War On Some Drugs. The organized criminals who are violent generally kill people we don't mind being dead, and historically as long as they do that they are tolerated to a great extent.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    3. Re:And the escalation continues. by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      It will be only a short time before drug lords and other baddies start getting anti aircraft missiles to take out the UAV's.

      Do we really want the police encouraging the criminals to upgrade weaponry?

      Why does everybody insist on doing things the hard way? How hard is it for the average Slashdotter to build an EMP gun? Scramble the UAV's electronics and down it comes.

      Dibs on the servos!

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    4. Re:And the escalation continues. by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      How hard is it for the average Slashdotter to build an EMP gun?

      A toy? Or one to knock a helicopter out of the sky?

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
  34. Less Lethal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is "less lethal" like "partially dead"?

    A laser sighted shotgun? Think about that for a minute.

    1. Re:Less Lethal by arthurpaliden · · Score: 1

      More like, as Miracle Max said, Mostly Dead.

    2. Re:Less Lethal by couchslug · · Score: 1

      You can fire a wide variety of "non-bullety" items from shotguns:

      http://tinyurl.com/63fyzb9

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  35. Fuck It! by DaMattster · · Score: 1

    If they want to go that route, I'll find a way to shoot the bitch down and laugh. Montgomery County UAV vs. RPG!

    1. Re:Fuck It! by couchslug · · Score: 1

      How do you plan to stop the debris from hitting innocents?

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    2. Re:Fuck It! by koan · · Score: 1

      So lets see you just publicly threatened the police in Texas, with an illegal weapon, on one of the most visited web sites and most likely with your home IP.

      Please close your mouth so that you will suffocate.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    3. Re:Fuck It! by DaMattster · · Score: 1

      So lets see you just publicly threatened the police in Texas, with an illegal weapon, on one of the most visited web sites and most likely with your home IP.

      Please close your mouth so that you will suffocate.

      Take your tin-foil hat off, move out of your parent's basement, and realize that I am making a joke.

    4. Re:Fuck It! by koan · · Score: 1

      you're still breathing....

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    5. Re:Fuck It! by DaMattster · · Score: 1

      And you're still living with mom.

    6. Re:Fuck It! by koan · · Score: 1

      that should do it, it's in Google cache.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    7. Re:Fuck It! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      You might want to read the news. You'll discover that joking is less of a defence than you might think it is. Apparently the police don't have much of a sense of humour...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    8. Re:Fuck It! by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      If he's a christian it's OK as everyone is born guilty and deserving of wrath anyway

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
  36. Another drone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    About 3 years ago, a local Houston TV news reporter got wind of an unannounced, by invitation only, test by the Houston PD of a drone they intended to purchase for 'traffic enforcement' purposes. Given their penchant for long (usually at rush hour), cinematically lush chases, several with fatalities, the suggestion of a less obvious method of surveiling the latest mobile boyfriend run amok might have had merit. But the public were convinced by the sinister angle of the reportage that it was a bad idea then. Conroe may be a suburb of Houston someday, (it's 60 miles north) but it is another country mentally. Different set of good ol' boys, and now they can, for as long as it takes for Houston PD to demand and procure theirs, gloat about their toys being badder. I've been in their traffic camera monitor room, and wonder if they'll be using the same guys (think 5-day LAN party attendee) to keep track of the drone. But, also, think of a place where you are absolutely allowed to carry while mowing your lawn. This thing may end up being a six-figure clay pigeon.

  37. Goodbye America by koan · · Score: 1

    The police are just another gang, albeit better equipped, frankly that thing looks like a joke to me especially considering it will be a Texas cop flying it.
    Dry Weight: 35lbs (16 kg)
    Overall Length: 96 in (243.9 cm)
    Height: 29.8 in (75.7 cm)
    Width: 17 in (43.2 cm)
    Rotor Span: 76.5 in (194.3 cm)
    Usable Load: 22 lbs (10 kg)
    Cruising Speed: 35 mph (56.3 kph)
    Max Speed: 70 mph (112.6 kph)
    Max Range: 35 miles (56 km)
    Fuel Endurance: Turbine 45 min/Piston 3.5 hrs.

    What a joke.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  38. Details matter by overshoot · · Score: 1

    I must point out that we'd never bypass the justice system unless the video from the drone showed with a high degree of probability that the suspect appeared to be mentally retarded.

    How much melanin does it take to make someone retarded?

    --
    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
  39. This is insane by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the application of UAVs during wartime was questionable, and I find it to be absolutely incredible that we are using them on our own people now. We've killed a lot of people who were innocent by accident, and I think the detachment between a UAV operator and the actual person they see in their monitor enables these kinds of casualties. It's different when a soldier (or cop) is face to face with a criminal and can assess the situation in person.

    The application of UAVs with infrared cameras to find grow houses for drugs is the kind of use that is perfectly acceptable. Remotely tazing, bean-bagging, and shooting people is not.

    We really need to pass a law that permanently bans any kind of semi-lethal or lethal force being applied by UAVs against civilians. Especially with the controversy about the actual damage inflicted by a tazer.

    1. Re:This is insane by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "the detachment between a UAV operator and the actual person they see in their monitor enables these kinds of casualties."

      Trebuchet, Catapult, Cannon Artillery, and Aerial Bombing called, citing prior art.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  40. Armed Police Drones... by arthurpaliden · · Score: 1

    Not to worry when the come to get me I will just hide in my bunker with all my guns ..... oh wait ....

  41. Stop Fed subsidy of local police by mbone · · Score: 1

    Ever notice how when you read about this bullshit, it is paid for from Federal funds ? The answer, of course, is simple - local citizens tend to object if too much money is wasted on bullshit toys, the Feds don't really care, the cops like their gadgets and SWAT teams, and the vendors, and their lobbyists, are tickled pink. This practice started in 1968 with the Omnibus Crime Bill; 43 years of the experiment of massive Federal subsidies of local police shows that it is totally value-subtracting and should be stopped.

    1. Re:Stop Fed subsidy of local police by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      The Feds aren't just giving the money away. I would love to see what strings come attached with these 'grants'.

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
  42. Right to Bear Arms by Phoenix666 · · Score: 1

    The time is very near when we shall have to dust this one off and use it for its original purpose: to check the physical power of the government.

    Yes, a couple guys with hunting rifles are not going to seriously challenge a military with tanks and jets. But there are millions and millions of those guys, and they all know how to shoot well enough to bring down even SEAL Team 6. Also, tanks and jets are pretty useful when you want to completely, indiscriminately flatten someone else's cities, but they're not so terribly useful when you try to use them against your own; the guys with the guns are mixed in with non-combatants and the collateral damage of dropping napalm on Hackensack would be unacceptably high.

    This future is coming to an America near you if the 1% don't wake the hell up right now and chart a radically better course.

    --
    Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
    1. Re:Right to Bear Arms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As for mass collateral damage, the rejoinder can be as simple as "Georgia Guidestones".

      I think that it COULD happen in Hackensack, considering the public policy of New Jersey state government is that only the military and police are to be armed. This was so that no minorities could be armed, but that would run afoul with the Fourteenth Amendment's equal protection clause. The smart-ass attorneys turned that clause on its head and denied ALL NJ residents so that no "charges of discrimination" could be lodged since "all were treated equally in denial". The Juris Doctored in NJ burned the midnight oil in filing amicus briefs with the SCOTUS to keep McDonald v. Chicago from overturning gun control there.

      I believe that there is a psychological regimen that military personnel undergo so that they are conditioned to kill their own contrymen, which to a reasonable individual would be considered a violation of the oath of induction. Since this is a danger the nature of which so grave, the normal procedure of the accusing party (the poster) having to prove so cannot be afforded, therefore the burden to prove otherwise must rest upon them.

      Why do you think that there is an ongoing effort to reformulate all consumer products to preclude their use as weapons and to assign "tripwire status" to those products that cannot be reformulated? The bleaching toilet pucks that go in the tank have shrunk quite a bit so as to make a potential defender. Buying pool shock is no different that buying fertilizer. Your name goes on an FBI watchlist. Buying cash? It's child's play to link the time of sale of a tripwire product to the surveillance video for a face. When one sees a face, a time, a date, a place, and a product, intent often is assumed for the defense to prove otherwise.

      Somewhere out there:

      "Hmmmm, that product has 'leverage' potential", the well-instructed cashier thinks to herself. "May I see a photo ID, please?" She presses a key on the POS terminal, causing a hidden camera to take a snapshot of the customer's face. While the customer is distracted by a dazzling display on a nearby advert screen triggered by her pressing that key, she plunges the ID into a reader.

      Another person is about to lose their freedom. Decrement the threat count by one.

    2. Re:Right to Bear Arms by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      and the collateral damage of dropping napalm on Hackensack would be unacceptably high.

      You're talking New Jersey here. They'd just call it Urban Renewal, apply for extra grant money, and say it's all good.

  43. Police by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Making the world unsafer than the criminals.
    I know very few victims of crime I however know lots of victims of police.
    Watch you fucking tv do you see more criminals beating people or police.
    And we know they are asking to remove and not play them you know they have had some success at that.
    They are ashamed of themselves.
    Wake up America.

  44. Concentrate efforts elsewhere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps effort should be concentrated elsewhere. In adopting such devices in law enforcement, important moral firewalls (would) have been breached. Therefore the moral guilt of those who have been documented to have used weapons of mass destruction in the recent past (Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, etc.) should cling to those responsible for giving the orders to use. Use whatever media channels available to change public opinion that any government that uses military weapons on its own civilians FORFEITS ANY AND ALL LEGITIMACY. Those who disagree with the preceding should be watched carefully and by whatever means necessary disqualified from jury service. Yes, I am talking about changing people's opinion so profoundly that even VOIR DIRE cannot ferret them out. As long as specific parties an/or court cases are not identified, no charges of jury tampering can be pressed.

  45. Easily subjugated, or eliminated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By a Raspberry Pi controlled smart missile or gun. Truthfully why do people get so upset when there are tons and lots of fun ways to counter such a horrible thing. I would think the real worry would be something like a civilian arms race. Like the kind of stuff happening in Mexico. That's why I think they are stupid for doing that. Sooner or later the cartels will make something just as diabolical, or even worse. By then they will probably have high speed rail running under the Texas Mexico border.

  46. i dont like this at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    my clay pidgeon target practice might come in handy, if i see any weaponized UAVs flying around over my house i am going to shoot them down and hide them

    1. Re:i dont like this at all by Froggels · · Score: 0

      You do realize that that would be breaking the law and you could get arrested.

  47. No worries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get yourself a small amateur rocket build, stick a live feed video camera in the nose, and an operator who can control the guidance on it in flight and . . .

    Voila, your problem is solved. No need for explosives at all. The kinetic impact will do the job nicely.

    Or be fun and fight fire with fire, run a decent sized RC plane up there to intercept it.

  48. Sliding towards fascism..... by sunyjim · · Score: 1

    I am a Canadian, and as an outsider to your country, and being so small a country ourselves, we watch mostly American TV, and see a lot of American news. But really since 9/11 in George W's presidency to even now with Obama in power the USA has gone from a beacon of freedom in the world to sliding closer and closer to a fascist state. I'm surprised more people aren't out protesting with Occupy Wall street, or just protesting things like the TSA searching trucks in TN, trains and ferry passengers, and now with the help of Homeland security these Texas cops are violating your freedoms with drones in the air?! There should be riots in the streets over this B.S. but instead the people say Meh! and carry on. Well I can almost hear the jackboots and sirens approaching from here. Here's a quote to give some thought to. "Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind...And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded with patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader, and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar" - William Shakespeare

    1. Re:Sliding towards fascism..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am a Canadian, and as an outsider to your country, and being so small a country ourselves, we watch mostly American TV, and see a lot of American news. But really since 9/11 in George W's presidency to even now with Obama in power the USA has gone from a beacon of freedom in the world to sliding closer and closer to a fascist state.

      Shut your mouth! Obama is our Dear Leader and has been since his birth in Chicago to his parents Abraham Lincoln and Betsy Ross. He says we need to be protected from evil French terrorists like William Shatner and Dan Aykroyd.

    2. Re:Sliding towards fascism..... by Froggels · · Score: 0

      Texas cops are not violating anyone's freedoms, they are fighting crime and catching criminals. Didn't you know that?

    3. Re:Sliding towards fascism..... by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Please don't pretend to speak for Canada. Just because you're incapable of critical thinking, doesn't mean the rest of us are the same. The Canadian government has the ability to "oppress" you far in excess of what the US government can do to it's citizens - since you're clearly not aware of this, I suggest you spend more time studying the Canadian legal system, and less time worrying about American politics.

    4. Re:Sliding towards fascism..... by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      Wow... I've never seen so many patches of words that have no connection at all....
      Even the birthspot of President Obama was incorrect in that post... EVERYTHING...

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
  49. Targeting the Occupy Movement? by DeafScribe · · Score: 1

    Timing of deployment seems remarkable.

  50. Great News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is really fucking great news.

    1. Re:Great News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ye Haw

  51. Sensationalized BS. by blackicye · · Score: 1

    From TFA it appears that this thing is just a retrofitted maybe slightly scaled up 50lb RC Helicopter.
    It probably has less than stellar range and endurance, and is much less stable than a quad/hex/octo rotor design.

    $300,000 is so obviously a total ripoff, but I'm guessing "Homeland Security grant" budget is a massive one.

    They could have done this for less than $5,000 with any one of the existing quad or hex rotor systems in the market, and their accompanying electronics modules.
    Or they could just buy Predator drones or wait until the military upgrades from them and take them over for free, it's not like they can't afford to spend some pocket change on the war on drugs/terror/bogeymen.

  52. Slashdot == FOX news by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

    "What the hell does law enforcement need a 37mm/40mm grenade launcher attached to a remote-controlled UAV for? "
    They don't. And this summary is pure manipulation.
    Think of all the police forces that use Bell Jet Rangers and have for years. They CAN carry Hellfire missiles mini-guns, and goodness knows what else. The thing is that they don't.
    First the the BIG LIE that is part of this summary. The company is working on things like stun batons and tazers. Go to the company website sometime and look at this thing. It is the size of a large model helicopter. BTW Small UAV == a model aircraft. And on the website they only talk about Sensors... Are they going to put weapons on it. I doubt it because they would be of next to no use. Will it carry sensors? Yes. If they do not put weapons on it it is not weaponized.
    Everyone here is taking a worst case view of this. I wish that we could have a bit of a better view of this. A small UAV like this could be very valuable is search and rescue or any number of uses such as fire fighting. I live in Florida and we often hear about people getting dragged out by rip currents. A small drone like this that could be launched quickly could be really useful. We also have forest fires one of these to scout would also be very useful.
    But Slashdot has learned... Fear Sells.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    1. Re:Slashdot == FOX news by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      We also have forest fires one of these to scout would also be very useful.

      Not really - it's useless in winds over 20mph.

    2. Re:Slashdot == FOX news by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Actually it still could. In florida it tends to be hot and dry and little wind when we get fires. Very unlike the west.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    3. Re:Slashdot == FOX news by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      A decent-sized fire generates its own winds.

  53. Keep back 100 ft by lefke123 · · Score: 1

    I think it's a nice touch of putting "Keep back 100 ft" in small print. Don't say they didn't warn you!

    --
    "I never liked the ocean, it ought to be paved over."
  54. For all of the bleating in TX about "liberty"... by Jawnn · · Score: 1

    We sure are happy to stomp on it on a regular basis. As a resident of several years now, I am shocked, but not at all surprised.

  55. troops vs drugs by anonymous9991 · · Score: 1

    the us troops should be brought back from Iraq and Afghanistan and sent to the borders, especially Mexico to fight drug war

  56. Weapons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obviously all you idiots commenting don't live in a state that borders Mexico. It's bad down here. And if you're feeling sorry for the illiegals, they're worse than the weapons Texas has bought. They leave behind women, children and men when they don't keep up and let them die in the desert, not to mention raping while the women are at their mercy with no where to go. I know. My husband is a volunteer border patrol agent. They find dead or near dead people quite often. These drones are in place to protect our citizens and help control the OUT OF CONTROL drug wars going on in Mexico coming across on our borders.

  57. Don't go there (Texas.) by yossie · · Score: 1

    Seriously? A weaponized UAV, for the police? Are they insane? Not my problem, for now, since I don't go to Texas .. Ever. It's a dangerous place where the population is drunk and armed and the cops practice more lawlessness than otherwise. Also it's a state that still murders people (Death "penalty".)
    Nothing good can or will come of this, for a fact.

  58. FAA Approval Optional? by jasnw · · Score: 1

    As TFA points out, the FAA isn't all that sure it wants these beasties flying around in US airspace being controlled by people who are focused on chasing something on the ground and not watching what they're doing in that airspace. An FAA rep says that most local orgs flying these things don't have FAA approval, which ought to raise some red flags within a community that's supposed to be all about law enforcement. Even if there's a good consciencious pilot at the controls, it's not easy to keep track of the surrounding airspace AND as TFA also points out, these things go rouge on an all-too-frequent basis. Since arguments about "police state" aren't going to stop these bozos from buying/flying these things, perhaps the best offense is to go at them through the FAA. Maybe it won't stop the buying, but it can stop the flying.

  59. Speed Limit Enforced by Aircraft by ohnocitizen · · Score: 1

    Well, this definitely puts a new spin on those "Speed Limit Enforced by Aircraft" signs...

  60. What's good for Iraq is good for Americans by icongorilla · · Score: 1

    When normal law-abiding Americans have to deal with drones, then they will have some insight on why sending them to foreign countries may be viewed as cowardly and hate-worthy.

    --
    The thought of hanging myself at my student loan organization doesn't bug me as much when I think it might make a differ
    1. Re:What's good for Iraq is good for Americans by koan · · Score: 1

      "Cowardly" you know the British soldiers used to line up across the field and march into the enemies musket/canon fire, when they came up against settlers hiding behind a rock and picking them off from a distance they called them cowards.

      Anyone that calls anyone else a "coward" for staying out of the line of fire has never been in the line of fire.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    2. Re:What's good for Iraq is good for Americans by Froggels · · Score: 0

      If they are law-abiding then the drones should not have to worry about drones. It's only criminals who should worry.

  61. Home made EMP? by koan · · Score: 1

    That's really all it takes any more.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  62. If unmanned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does that mean criminals can shoot at it without being charged with out asulting an officer. Perhaps destruction of public property? Seems almost reasonable.

  63. how many schools did they close to pay for this? by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 1

    this is madness.

  64. HUH? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where are we going? And why am I sitting in a handbasket?

  65. Perhaps leave military grade weapons for the army? by Hadlock · · Score: 1

    Police were intended to keep the peace and provide security for their citizens. In Japan and England police need special certification to carry guns, let alone fire them. They're a pretty friendly bunch, and very approachable from what I understand. At what point did we decide that they needed to wage war against our citizens? This is sort of like escalating the TSA from running the metal detectors at airports to searching trucks on the highway - when have you outgrown your intended purpose?
     
    I understand the need to escalate things to the SWAT team, but beyond that, perhaps we should consider mobilizing the state's National Guard? There's a reason why we have a separation of State Police and State Army. Modern drug wars are getting too big for the local police and perhaps we should assign that task to the national guard? There needs to be some sort of separation in power between the two, or perhaps we should just merge them.

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
  66. Those on the ground also have weapons by Peter+Simpson · · Score: 1

    It's Texas, right? I'm predicting some holes appear in that new toy fairly rapidly. It's nothing but a flying traffic sign, after all.

  67. So glad i dont live in the USA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Title says it all. The people over there are getting more and more crazy by the day. Attitudes are just becoming sub-human.

    We all hear time and time again that America is about as fucked-up/religious/millitant as a third-world middle eastern country, and articles like this clearly show that the USA is about halfway down the slippery slope already.

    Land of the Free?
    Land of Liberty and Human Rights?
    Not a Christian Nation?

    Yeah right.

  68. Amerika's 2 major exports.... by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
    ...are junk paper (securitized financial instruments, a k a credit derivatives to the tune of hundreds of trillions --- otherwise how would all those debt-financed billionaires have made their snake oiled money?) and "security export" --- that's Pentagonese for military actions and activities in foreign lands --- such as protecting those Chinese copper mining companies in Afghanistan and oil companies in southern Iraq which export their oil principally to China.

    Get the picture, pal?

  69. Only illegal activity should be afraid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure fix it for everyone when my reply still stands after "sgt" decided to delete it. This isnt political. Its something that is already LAW under a large number of immigration acts passed threw congress. You have to LEGALLY be in allowed to migrate into the US from anywhere we have borders. It considered an open border too. So why are these people continuously trying to JUMP IT?? Duh suhsuuhuduh geee lemme think.... lemme take a second and get back to you....uhhhh....
    These people dont seem to get the picture, SO, the DHS is making it more clear for them. Its wreckless, irresponsible, and criminal on behalf of illegals. Point blank.

    1. Re:Only illegal activity should be afraid. by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      Sure fix it for everyone when my reply still stands after "sgt" decided to delete it. This isnt political. Its something that is already LAW under a large number of immigration acts passed threw congress. You have to LEGALLY be in allowed to migrate into the US from anywhere we have borders. It considered an open border too. So why are these people continuously trying to JUMP IT?? Duh suhsuuhuduh geee lemme think.... lemme take a second and get back to you....uhhhh....
      These people dont seem to get the picture, SO, the DHS is making it more clear for them. Its wreckless, irresponsible, and criminal on behalf of illegals. Point blank.

      Except this is currently deployed in Conroy, TX, a long way away from the border. About what, 400 miles or so?

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
  70. Reached that point long ago, pal... by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
    Man oh man, were you ever snookered, And there's a lot of garbage taking in place in Canooks-ville, so look around, buddy. America has long been a Corporate Fascist State, sending foreign aid to China (and elsewhere) to build the factories, processing facilities, R&D labs, etc., for the American-based multinationals to offshore the jobs to, and create new ones at. They have dismantled the economy over the past 35 years, offshoring the production assets and capital assets, and leaving the poplace here high and dry. With their ultra-leveraged run (i.e., beginning at $1 debt on hand for every $60 - $100 worth of debt sold, and working up to $1,000, and then collapsing ---- same thing back in the 1920s, as a former Canadian progressive economist once explained in his book titled, The Great Crash) they have put us in debt peonage for decades to come.....

    http://boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/20111029_NOCERA-IMG-slide-V4QD-articleLarge.jpg

    http://boingboing.net/2011/10/29/top-us-foreclosure-law-firm-threw-halloween-party-where-staff-dressed-as-homeless-foreclosed-upon-americans.html

  71. Re:how many schools did they close to pay for this by toriver · · Score: 1

    this is madness.

    THIS! IS! TEXAS!

    *kicks Presto into bottomless shaft*

  72. Post was from a COP. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is how I know your reply was to a COP:

    On another note, the idea that killing someone because they robbed a place/person seems abominable IMHO. You'd take their most precious gift just because they took someone's money and/or assaulted them? Granted, they deserve punishment, but you are WAY beyond the pale here, buddy.

    COPS are thieves too, and they're testing the waters on how much they can get away with before shooting the lesser thieves.

  73. ROBOCOP by dalani · · Score: 1

    ROBOCOP script variant enough said

  74. Not a Mark-III by scdeimos · · Score: 1

    Nowhere in TFA does it say it's a Mk-III variant and Vanguard's own article says that it's a Mk-II. The difference? The Mark-II isn't weaponisable - at least not out of the box.

    TFA seems to misquote Vanguard CEO, Michael Buscher, as he's talking about weaponisation options for Mk-III and IV (military) variants.

  75. Hmmmph. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I lived in Texas, my backyard SAM site would be under construction immediately.

  76. No Crypto??? by IonOtter · · Score: 1

    I don't see anything on the website, spec sheets or product info on this unit that says the command & control link is covered by encryption. Are we to assume that it's encrypted??? Security through obscurity, perhaps?

    Hmmm.

    You may recall that the military UAV's were not protected? The article mentions that insurgents only got the unencrypted video feeds, BUT it also says that the "real time control systems" would be affected by the delay caused by encryption.

    It would truly suck if one of these puppies got hit with a strong signal telling the port ailerons to go "full down" and the starboard aileron to go "full up", while the elevators get told to go "full down".

    Nor would it be all that hard, I imagine? Can anyone explain whether it would be difficult? No need to get into the technicals, just whether or not it's possible with equipment off the shelf?

    --
    [End Of Line]
    1. Re:No Crypto??? by IonOtter · · Score: 1

      Annnd this is why you're supposed to READ the article. It's a chopper, not a fixed-wing. *face-palm*

      Assume that I'm asking if this thing could be given commands to send it out of control and into the ground.

      --
      [End Of Line]
  77. G-S == Glass Stiegal by reluctantjoiner · · Score: 1

    AKA the law drafted in the late 1930s in the aftermath of the Great Depression, separating investment and deposit holding banks.

  78. Note to self by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Avoid Texas.

  79. Hilarity waiting to happen. by wildstoo · · Score: 1

    I can't wait until one of the knucklehead police operators accidentally flies this thing into a tree or power lines or something.

    Then they get to explain to the media why their $300,000 toy just became a $5 pile of twisted metal.

  80. "Speed Checked By Aircraft, Enforced By Missiles" by vaporland · · Score: 1

    The cops won't even have to get out of their cars - they'll call in an airstrike on speeders, then call the dept of public works to clean up the wreckage and fill in the new pothole.

    Seriously, where did you think all this pilotless drone technology was going to eventually end up, anyway?

    "First they blew up the Taliban, and I did not care. Then they blew up Al-Queda, and I did not care. Then they blew up unlawful combatants, and I did not care. Then they blew up some American who who hated our freedoms but was not in America, and I started to wonder where this was headed...

    Then Texas bought these pilotless drones; and it was too late. . ."

    Texas - It's Like A Whole 'Nother Planet!

    --
    Ask Me About... The 80's!
  81. 'Non-leathal' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    'Non-leathal' weapons are very much lethal when aimed at the head, which is exactly the angle and aerial drone is going to be shooting at you from.

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/10/marine-veteran-whose-skull-was-fractured-in-oakland-protests-was-peacefully-standing-when-attacked-by-police.html

  82. Coming to a state near you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Soon this technology will be in every state. Also it's just a matter of time before they're used for the assination of US citizens...mark my words.

  83. I wonder.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it a felony shoot these drones down? I mean nobody is on board. And one could argue that if they weren't there to begin with, then nobody on the ground need be hurt by shooting one down. But then again, would it be a felony if nobody touched it and it crashed into a household of innocents. Who would be accountable then? And could we possibly assume THAT would be a felony conviction?

    Just pondering the legalities of what could/would go wrong.

    1. Re:I wonder.... by neminem · · Score: 1

      I expect the drones aren't cheap. I understand it depends somewhat on local laws, but certainly, at some point destruction of property becomes a felony, and I bet you most places crashing one of those drones would be on the far side of that point.

  84. I have just the video for you by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1
    --
    The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.