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Career Advice: Don't Call Yourself a Programmer

Ian Lamont writes "Patrick McKenzie has written about the do's and don't's of working as a software engineer, and some solid (and often amusing) advice on how to get ahead. One of the first pieces of advice: 'Don't call yourself a programmer: "Programmer" sounds like "anomalously high-cost peon who types some mumbo-jumbo into some other mumbo-jumbo." If you call yourself a programmer, someone is already working on a way to get you fired.' Although he runs his own company, he is a cold realist about the possibilities for new college grads in the startup world: 'The high-percentage outcome is you work really hard for the next couple of years, fail ingloriously, and then be jobless and looking to get into another startup.'"

25 of 422 comments (clear)

  1. But ... by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm self employed, and even though my boss is jerk he's not going to fire me because I call myself a programmer.

    1. Re:But ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And me too! I used to work for other people, but got tired of the instability in the 'work for hire' work world. They need you for something, you get hired, you solve the problem they have been staring at for 6 months, you attempt to help in other ways once all the fires they throw at you are out, they get nervous about you as 'an outsider' interfering with the business, and the software engineers God intended for the company (the ones who couldn't put out the fires they handed to you) and so suddenly there you are with the collective 'they' handing you your hat, once again unemployed. I've even worked for places where, after you are gone, the regulars still can't handle the fire situation, and within one or two months, they are once again looking for a fireman. So I finally started up my own. Its a lot more work than work-for-hire, and even after things were built and running, the money was less, but it was steady, and growing. Early on, there wasn't enough to put bread on the table, but you keep it going and do work for hire. You start out with 1.25 times the income of straight work-for-hire (and about 1 1/2 times the work). Once it gets to about 1.75 times the income of work-for-hire, its time to bail on work-for-hire, and from that point on, your life belongs to you.

    2. Re:But ... by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think programmer is still a fine title. In all reality titles for software developers are so varied and vague, that as long as I am getting my pay cheque, I am quite happy to be called a 'Senior Code Monkey'. At that point I am also happy to treat my boss as 'Manager Monkey' and the CEO as 'Chief Baboon'. ;)

      --
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  2. Makes sense by rsilvergun · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If it's one thing America's taught me it's that doing useful work is the worst way to earn money around these parts.

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    1. Re:Makes sense by SharkLaser · · Score: 3, Funny

      Well, programming practically is the computer-world equivalent of construction worker or cleaners. Sure, it's useful so people actually can get things done, but it isn't practically challenging or something lots of people can't do if given teaching. Developers have to make the important decisions regarding a product. If you wanted to work in the gaming industry, would you rather want to be a coder or actually the game designer?

    2. Re:Makes sense by Surt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Programming has one advantage over construction workers: it's mind-numbing indoor work. Most people cannot stand it. That's the real hurdle keeping people out of the industry.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    3. Re:Makes sense by etymxris · · Score: 5, Informative

      Programming seems easy to you and me, but you would be surprised at how many people just cannot do it no matter how much training you give them. Anyone can clean, most people can do construction. Maybe 1 in 10 people could program if they really wanted to, and only 1 in 10 of those will actually want to.

    4. Re:Makes sense by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 5, Funny

      Are you saying you are the 1%?

    5. Re:Makes sense by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly ; they've done studies that prove this - not everyone can program a computer. Every time I see one of those GUI programming environments designed to enable users to program, I sigh. Real programmers detest them (unless they are a mile-high model overview and they fill in the gaps), and people who can't program still can't program, so implementing them is pointless and counter-productive.

      If 30-60% of people who self-selected to go on a Computer Science course can't program, what's the percentage in the general population?

    6. Re:Makes sense by CodeBuster · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Programming seems easy to you and me, but you would be surprised at how many people just cannot do it no matter how much training you give them.

      Please mod parent up. This is exactly right. All of my experience, both in school and now working as a software developer, confirms this.

    7. Re:Makes sense by anonymov · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, filling in a bunch of formulas IS a form of dataflow programming.

      It is easy for non-programmers because it quite closely maps real-world calculations on a sheet of paper to the computer screen - just fill in the initial values and write down formulas without worrying about operations ordering. VisiCalc and those who polished the concept after them did a pretty nice job.

      On a side note, Visicalc authors' notes make for quite an interesting read.

    8. Re:Makes sense by gman003 · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you wanted to work in the gaming industry, would you rather want to be a coder or actually the game designer?

      Bad analogy there. Game designers are about as far from programming as possible. You see plenty of game designer/level designer people or game designer/storywriters, you see some game designer/artist people (particularly in Japan), and you even see some game designer/musician people. I can't name of the top of my head a single game designer/programmer who isn't an indie developer (where everyone is a bit of everything, really).

  3. Depends on why I'm referring to my profession by Mean+Variance · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In casual conversation among people who wouldn't know the nuances of the various "programmer"-like terms, I do say, "I'm a programmer." It gets the point across simply that most people understand.

    If I'm in a semi-professional setting of white collar adults, I usually say "software developer."

    On a resume or among those who know the industry standard, I say "I'm a software engineer" because that's my title.

    If it's tied to a conversation that might have career potential, I give the true classification at work: senior software engineer.

  4. Such sage advice... by The+Living+Fractal · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Because, you know, the 1000+ currently open job postings for keyword "programmer" on Monster.com are just a perfect example of situations where people are already looking to fire you. After all, that's why they created the posting, just so they could waste company resources and fire someone.

    /sarcasm

    --
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    1. Re:Such sage advice... by snowgirl · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because, you know, the 1000+ currently open job postings for keyword "programmer" on Monster.com are just a perfect example of situations where people are already looking to fire you. After all, that's why they created the posting, just so they could waste company resources and fire someone. /sarcasm

      Sarcasm and all, this is the rantings of a single person at a single company, about his own personal view of the topic. I could probably find someone who would tell you that using the Oxford comma is likely to get you fired, and due to some forms of projection (the assumption that you are "typical", and you model everyone in the world based on yourself) they will assume that it's the prevalent opinion.

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  5. Programmer != Engineer, idiot. by sichbo · · Score: 5, Informative

    In Canada, it's illegal to practice engineering, or call yourself one, without a engineers license. There's nothing worse than retards who get a college degree in programming and start calling themselves "engineers". It's an insult to every actual certified engineer in the world.

    1. Re:Programmer != Engineer, idiot. by FooAtWFU · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There's nothing worse than retards who get a college degree in programming and start calling themselves "engineers".

      I work with these machines - design them, refine them. You could, with just the slightest hint of fancy, refer to them "difference engines". I am an Engine-er. Welcome to the English language; I suggest that you save yourself some grief and just deal with it.

      (Of course you need a license to do something useful in Canada. Woo flippin' hoo. Canadian industry is all about the incumbent industries protecting themselves from competition through regulatory capture. That's also part of why you have such sucky telecom services that you're always complaining about.)

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    2. Re:Programmer != Engineer, idiot. by RichMan · · Score: 4, Informative

      In Canada the degree does not matter. No one, no matter what qualifations can call themseleves and engineer unless they are a professional engineer.

      To be a professional engineer they must be a member of their provincial professional engineering association. This is roughly equivalent toa US lawyer being a member of the bar for a particular US state. The idea is that "Engineers" are professionals and to call yourself one you must be a member of the professional assiation.

      What is a professional engineer (Ontario Professional Engineers Organization)-> http://www.peo.on.ca/registration/LR.html

      Most civil and a high percentage of those who graduate from mechanical engineering do become professional engineers. It gets you the official STAMP which is used to mark building and machine documents. Most electrical engineering college graduates do not. Those who work in power engineering do. In Canada the main reason to become a professional engineer is to get your stamp. If your job requires you to stamp designs then you will get your professional engineering membership.

      Very few software projects get engineering stamps. The link above also discusses the seal.

      http://www.ccpe.ca/e/index.cfm

       

  6. Everybody is an engineer? by babblesaurus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    . . . and 'real' engineers everywhere weep. Obviously every case may be unique, but calling yourself one thing which has a set of implications does sort of slander professionals in the field whose titles you are trying to snag.

    1. Re:Everybody is an engineer? by FooAtWFU · · Score: 5, Insightful

      . . . and 'real' engineers everywhere weep. Obviously every case may be unique, but calling yourself one thing which has a set of implications does sort of slander professionals in the field whose titles you are trying to snag.

      I agree 100%! As we all know, real engineers drive trains.

      chugga chugga chugga chugga choo chooooo!

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  7. Recent graduate advice by FooAtWFU · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It doesn't matter if your first job leaves you unemployed and searching again in a few years. It matters that you're working with people who are smarter than you are and learning how to actually program and write software effectively. Job security? Pay? If you end up as an undifferentiated code monkey left to your own devices or, worse, fighting a monstrous legacy code base and bureaucracy that you're powerless to alter *cough*IBM*cough... you can very easily find you've crippled the rest of your career. At best, the work will be a dull slog.

    Go for the startup, if they sound like they have some idea of how to do things right and will offer you meaningful professional development. If you can't take a career risk at this point in your life, when do you think you will be able to? And then for Job #2, you'll have some Skills. You'll be infinitely more employable. You might even be able to look at the monstrous legacy codebase and say, with the authority of experience, that this stinks and there's a better way to do it and yes you will do that refactoring, and you won't hate your job.

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  8. Need people to cut code by etymxris · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Too many people in IT don't know the first thing about writing code. I think things are changing though. Companies seem to realize you can get by with less people that can do more if your workers can actually program.

    Calling oneself a "programmer" tells us exactly what we want to know when we're looking at candidates. So many people put C, C++, Java, C# or whatever on their resume and can't even write a simple for loop.

    Patrick McKenzie isn't right about how he describes businesses and employees. We see resumes all the time where someone highlights how they saved their last company six, seven, or eight figures. We don't want to hear that. We want to hear that you have the skills needed to do the job we're hiring you for.

    He also isn't right about the language not mattering. It's much easier to go from low level languages to higher level languages than vice versa. If someone was an expert in VB or Python, we would be very hesitant to hire them for a position that required coding in C. And if someone can pick up a language in just a few weeks, then they should do that before they apply to jobs asking for that skill set.

  9. I knew AD&D would help! by Rinikusu · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's why I put "20th Level Code Rogue/Network Warlock" on my resume.

    --
    If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
  10. It's not firing by ryzvonusef · · Score: 3, Funny

    No, it's called a divorce :P

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  11. I'm a programmer by msobkow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm a programmer. I have been for over 25 years.

    I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon of "software engineer". I think it's as ludicrous as "sanitation engineering."

    Any employer who thinks "programmer" is a derogatory or lesser term is too blinded by buzzwords for me to be happy working for them anyhow.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.