Slashdot Mirror
KDE 3.5 Fork Trinity Releases First Major Update
First time accepted submitter Z_God writes "Disappointed with KDE 4's performance and other shortcomings, Timothy Pearson continued KDE 3.5 development under the name Trinity. Tuesday the first major update of the Trinity Desktop Environment was released providing an alternative upgrade path for KDE users that do not feel comfortable with KDE 4. The Trinity Desktop Environment should provide a fast and familiar experience for all users expecting a traditional desktop environment. Packages are available for Debian, Ubuntu and Fedora from the Trinity project site."
Why do you hate freedom? A major point of open source is so that if you're dissatisfied with the direction a vendor goes, you can fork and maintain locally. That's what's going on here. You don't have to fucking use it, jerk.
Why do we have to fight change every step of the way?
Because change is NOT always good.
The desktop should not be a widget, gadget, or any other form of "app" because it's the desktop. It's supposed to take priority. I have never experienced the level of outright frustration as when the KDE Plasma Weather Widget got stuck in a constant crash-restart loop and the KDE Crash Reporter burnt up all my RAM (in addition to stealing focus constantly.) In KDE 3.5 I could've simply killed the widget process. But in KDE4, no, I can;t, because killing the widget process wipes out my launcher, my desktop icons, my taskbar - all the critical system components I need to even do so much as load a damn terminal to kill the widget. Yes, I know, Ctrl-Alt-F2, but having to deal with that in the first place is just the solution that proves there's a problem.
I now run GNOME2. I tried GNOME3, Unity, and even KDE4. And I mean for 2-3 weeks each. I couldn't stand any of them. It's not that each has their little annoyances. I mean, GNOME2 is slap full of those as well. Rather, my issue with the latest generation of WMs is simply that they're growing more and more devoid of choice. Want a launcher on the left side? Good luck! Maybe loading another separate desktop widget system? Why would you want that?! Every little thing I try to do, these new WMs tell me "I can't do that." I'm not using GNOME2 because I love the eye candy (I prefer the LOOK of GNOME3, actually.) I'm using it because every time I want to do something that's not the default, GNOME2 lets me do it. It's the "have it your way" WM. Nothing in the latest generation actually offers that level of freedom-as-in-choice.
When the taskbar and program launcher (preferably a menu) in KDE4 is its own separate process, THEN I'll try it again. Critical system components should NOT be freaking widgets! That is dumb. And I will not upgrade to "dumber and choice-less" just because it looks pretty, else I could just go get a Mac.
Why do we have to fight change every step of the way?
Because not all change is good?
Trinity is a good name for it, because the server got nuked!
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Oh yeah, well I'm going to fork Trinity to make it more like KDE 4!
Nepomuk must be indexing the files on his server right now.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
Someone did:
https://github.com/Perberos/Mate-Desktop-Environment
http://k3rnel.net/2011/06/22/bluebubble-the-fine-manual/
Not sure how much mileage there is in these, though. Working on upgrading the crippled 'fallback' mode of Gnome 3 to something a bit closer to the Gnome 2 Panel might be more worthwhile in the long run. Meanwhile, there's Xfce.
That's KDE, and what's with Gnome? Gnome3 consists nearly solely of regressions, there's barely any functionality left. The primary mode, "gnome-shell" is beyond words, acting as everyone has fat fingers on a 3'' touchscreen, combining worst ideas of iPhone and Windows Phone ("you can't run a program more than once", etc). The secondary mode, "gnome-fallback" is a bad joke too -- no usable panel, no desktop, no messing with the menu (try right clicking... try dragging...). Individual programs are no better: for example, someone had the brilliant idea of taking away the tray mode from RhythmBox. Oh, and network-manager (AKA "no network more complex than single DHCP") is a hard dependency.
There is a fork attempt called "Mate" but it doesn't look that promising yet. I wonder whether it's a matter of time, or if it's time to migrate to XFCE or something. As Linus and ESR said, XFCE feels like a big step back.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
The problem is that Slashdot, like most other communities, tends to hold onto widely accepted opinions even if they aren't currently true (or correct). Like you, I agree: Early KDE 4 releases weren't up to par, but 4.7 is very, very well done. But, because there's this preconceived notion that anything KDE 4 is terrible, the myth is perpetuated ad infinitum.
Of course, there's also the group that wants to run it on 6+ year old hardware, even though there's 1) plenty of light weight projects that will work on old hardware and 2) other OSes like Windows 7 likely won't work well on very old hardware either.
He who has no
I suppose it's silly of me to comment on this, but really, what is wrong with posting this? Okay, so 4.7 is available. Why does that invalidate someone else's effort to fork the 3.x branch? I think you're getting hung up on version-itis, the idea that a larger version number is inherently better, or in a less confrontational manner of putting it, that the changes in a higher version number inherently represent progress. Major version number changes are not necessarily better. Instead, think of it is significantly different. Yes, the point is to improve the system, but sometimes people disagree with the direction a project is taken on a subsequent major revision. Frankly, when people bitch about it, they are often told "if you dislike it so much, stick with the old version, it still works." Well, this guy took it to heart and is continuing development. As it happens, I think that's pretty freaking awesome.
The desktop should not be a widget, gadget, or any other form of "app" because it's the desktop. It's supposed to take priority.
And by "the desktop" you probably mean "a folder". I don't know about you, but my real wooden desktop doesn't look like a folder at all. Instead, it's filled with post-it notes, pencils, sometimes a notebook, a computer, a phone, a lamp and a Rubik cube. In short, it's filled with gadgets.
PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
Thanks for sharing. Here's the link for it I found:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/MATE
I like polish and a good-looking desktop, but functionality comes first, and I basically just want to be able to work, not wonder what the flavor of the week desktop is now.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
It may be filled with gadgets, but it doesnt crash and burn just because a pencil tip gets broken off.
"The Desktop" is and has always been nothing but a very poor metaphor anyway. Get your damn desktop off my root window! ;)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
So please explain WHY in godsname KDE insists on copying a movie file from a samba share before playing it in a capable player? That is just plain annoying on small files but when you are talking about 20gb files it is just plain silly. This kind of thing is so fucking basic and since the same player can just play from the share with other desktops it is a complete and utter failure on the KDE team to prioritize on basic functionality over bling.
KDE dropped the ball. Polishing a turned over several releases so it shines a bit more still means you got a turd.
You are talking like a stockholm beating, believing your captor is becoming your friend because the beatings have gotten slightly less regular.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
This story is extremely relevant to the Slashdot community. No doubt that KDE 4.7 is well-refined. However, KDE 4 and KDE 3 differ significantly in both how they are developed and how they are used. To have the KDE 3.5 forked into an actively-developed fork will not downplay KDE 4's significance nor its own active development. This just gives us users a choice between two considerably different desktop environments. People who like KDE 4 will stay with it, and people who don't like KDE 4 abandoned it a long time ago, so there's no harm done by keeping its predecessor alive under a different name.
/* No Comment */
KDE 4.7 is up to par with what?
- Printing is not "up to par". KDE 3.5 used to have a printing system that anyone could envy, in KDE 4.x printing barely works (bug 180051)
- PIM is not "up to par". KDE 3.5 used to have a sync feature, a bit clumsy, but it worked. The sync feature in KDE 4.x is only available in SVN and barely works. And don't get me started with syncing with my phone...
And I could cite you the bug database all day, giving you an example of bugs that make features really uncomfortable to use. I am subscribed to at least a dozen bugs, all that affect my productivity, while in KDE 3.5 I had little or no issues.
- I have issues with network shares.
- I have issues with instant messaging (granted, some of them existed with 3.5, but the fixes were commited right before the KDE 4 fiasco started)
- I have issues with the text editors
- I have issues with using KDE over SSH
- I have issues with performance (maybe I should upgrade my ancient quad-core PC with 8 GB RAM)
Most of these are not fixed in 4.7, which is not available for all distros yet, so even if they were, it doesn't matter. You know, KDE 3.5 was stable, mature and polished. KDE used to be a pain in the ass, but with 3.5 all the issues slowly disappeared. It was already available everywhere, in all distros. KDE 4.7 just got out, and it's filled with issues I cursed KDE 3.3 or 3.4 for. Compared to KDE 3.5, KDE 4.7 is still crap. And slow.
Of course, there's also the group that wants to run it on 6+ year old hardware
This is posted from a laptop which is 8 years old, buddy. It runs Lubuntu 10.04 LTS, and rocks with it (LXDE). It was starting to suck a bit with Ubuntu 10.04 (Gnome 2) and with PCLinuxOS 2009 (KDE 3.something), but LXDE purged the bloat and revived the hardware.
other OSes like Windows 7 likely won't work well on very old hardware either.
In what way is that relevant? The laptop of which I spoke came with original XP (pre SP1), which ran OK on it, but sucked in so many ways (starting with the applications). I can't imagine running Win7 on it; probably more like staggering or slithering than running, actually.
So why don't I get a new laptop? Easy: this one has a nice 17" 1920x1200 display. All the new models (even from the same vendor) have nothing better than a shortscreen 1920x1080, if they even have that. The extra 120 vertical pixels are valuable.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
Totally unsubstantiated claims. And FYI, porting something from Qt3 to Qt4 is not just a matter of switching libraries; painting among other things has to be done in a different way. This is one of the reasons why Plasma was written from scratch instead of porting Kicker in the first place.
And that's fine. Some people hate Gnome 3, while I happen to like it. I have no objection to anyone that wants to use older stuff, or new forks of older stuff.
But as is usually the case, the shouting is largely unidirectional. "Zomg, new shit sucks, it's totally unusable, I'm never going to use this, you're all jerks if you like it, get off my lawn."
It's a grating and juvenile process. Every time something gets an overhaul, everyone screams that "new isn't better", as if that's insightful. We all know that, and they are trying to make something better. If something is genuinely broken, file a bug report. If you just don't like it, that's fine too. There's no reason we can't be civil about it.
After my release-day copy of KDE 3.5 just finished compiling, too! Of all the luck...
He acknowledged that, had you cared to read a few more sentences before jumping to reply.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
The desktop should not be a widget, gadget, or any other form of "app" because it's the desktop. It's supposed to take priority.
Then why you are using a GNOME 2.x where desktop is actually a Nautilus?
You did know that Nautilus is used to draw the desktop? Right?
And you did know that you can run just KWin as it is the window manager and you dont need to load a shell, the plasma? Right?
just say'en (or repeating) " if it ain't broke don't fix it " seems how i keep hearing that i not understand it. you know becaus of the kde3 - kde4 shinangians. ( i still have debian on all my machines because of it )
I used to be a Mandriva user. I stuck with Spring 2007 just because I didn't want to give up KDE 3.5. For me, the deciding factor to move to Ubuntu was Trinity KDE. I would still be using Mandriva 2007 if not for Trinity.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Here's what you said:
Here's what I actually said.
I did not say that KDE 4.7 is up to par completely with 3.x's later releases, but I did state that it's "very, very well done." While I appreciate your efforts at putting words into my mouth, I'm somewhat disappointed that you had to twist my words to do so. Not that I'm surprised; this is Slashdot, after all.
1) I will concede that KDE 4 is not as feature complete as it should be.
2) I have stated before that I prefer KDE over Gnome, and prefer KDE in general.
But perhaps the most important thing is this:
You would be willing to spend the time citing a bug database (yes, I know this is tongue-in-cheek) but not at all interested in offering patches/bugs to the KDE project?
Here's the other side of the coin:
I don't. They work fine for me.
I've never used Kopete, nor do I use a lot of KDE software. I've always used Pidgin. It works fine for my particular case, because I also use it under Windows. Having the same instant messenger across multiple OSes (Arch, Ubuntu, Windows) is of more utility to me than using whatever is "best integrated" with the environment.
I don't. Kate works fine for me, and I tend to use Eclipse quite regularly otherwise.
Not part of my use case.
Never had issues with it on a Core 2 Duo with 6 gigs of RAM, and I don't have issues with it on my current system, either. Both had fairly recent video cards, though. Plus, you can turn off the eye candy with a shortcut.
Either way, what this suggests to me is that most problems with KDE are largely subjective and the topic of edge-cases that I've never personally encountered. Yes, these are issues that should be fixed, but you know what they say... patches welcome. :)
He who has no