Simulated Mars Mission 'Returns' After 520 Days

On June 3, 2010, a team of six volunteers began the Mars500 experiment: they were locked into a cluster of hermetically sealed habitat modules for the duration of a simulated mission to Mars lasting 520 days. "During the ‘flight,' the crew performed more than 100 experiments, all linked to the problems of long-duration missions in deep space. To add to their isolation, communications with mission control were artificially delayed to mimic the natural delays over the great distances on a real Mars flight." The simulated mission has now come to an end. The crew managed to stay healthy and sane, and they've emerged from isolation to be reunited with their families. The ESA's Mars500 page has further details on the experiment, and they've posted a video summarizing the 'trip.'

Comments

Zero G

[rodrigoandrade]

How did they simulate zero gravity and its adverse effects on the human body??

Re:Zero G

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm assuming the study was more about human behaviour rather than things like that, and to answer your question, obviously they didn't simulate it.

Re:Zero G

[Anonymous Coward]

They didn't; this was a psychological experiment. We already know what long-term zero G does; we have the ISS for that.

Re:Zero G

[rodrigoandrade]

OK, replying to myself. The first article shows a pic of the crew floating around on April 1st, but the second articke states "minus the weightlessness."

Oh, my brain will explode now!!!

Re:Zero G

[Baloroth]

Weightless on 1 April

Yeah, might wanna think about that date a little :)

Re:Zero G

[tverbeek]

Is that May Day?

Re:Zero G

[Mephistophocles]

Not sure I would completely agree with the effectiveness of this study from a psychological perspective. It's interesting, no doubt, but the problem is that the people in the capsule still know they're on earth, safe, etc. They have a known end date for the study, etc. Assuming all that's taken into account here of course, but I wouldn't rely on the results in assuming that a human could maintain santiy for this period of time while actually in flight.

Re:Zero G

[stewbee]

I somewhat agree. One might be able to argue that it could be worse psychologically too. In that I mean that the participants still know that they are on earth, so why do I need to wait 6 minutes (guessing at a time delta here...) to get a response from 'earth' when I know that it shouldn't take that long. It could make a play on the frustration aspect of human psychology. If I were in space, I would just know that it's a limitation of radio waves being limited to the speed of light. On earth, it's just make believe.

Just playing devil's advocate here.

Re:Zero G

[Canazza]

It's Ascension Sunday.

Re:Zero G

[TheCRAIGGERS]

In that I mean that the participants still know that they are on earth, so why do I need to wait 6 minutes (guessing at a time delta here...) to get a response from 'earth' when I know that it shouldn't take that long.

Because it's part of the experiment, and they know it. Usually, factors like that are minimized in studies, but there isn't much you can do in this case.

Still, I agree that this isn't a very good test. One of the biggest factors on our sanity wasn't part of this test: fear. Even in low orbit, you know that a relatively thin layer of metal is all that protects you from death. If you have a major health issue, there are no ambulances to take you to the ER. Death literally surrounds you every moment you're out there, and living with that for nearly two years would likely take its toll.

In this study, you know you're monitored. If you lose containment, you're safe. If you have a heart attack, they will open the door and come get you. If your wife has a stroke, they'll let you out. Etc. I'd imagine that without knocking a random passerby on the head and waking them up on a fake spacecraft, it is extremely difficult to recreate the feeling of being out there.

Re:Zero G

[ideonexus]

They didn't simulate zero-g. A zero-gravity environment results in an average 1% loss of Bone Mineral Density per month (PDF) and muscle atrophy; however, these detrimental effects on the body might be countered by putting astronauts in a centrifuge for some time each day. We have seen plenty of astronauts experience extended periods of time in zero-g and in isolation though. The record for the longest space flight is held by Valeri Polyakov, who spent 437 days traveling 300,765,000 km orbiting the Earth on the Mir space station and who said his experience showed that “it is possible to preserve your physical and psychological health throughout a mission similar in length to a flight to Mars and back.”

Re:Zero G

[Anonymous Coward]

Or maybe they were simulating a Mars mission that uses artificial gravity. Space travel does not imply weightlessness, folks.

Re:Zero G

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd imagine that without knocking a random passerby on the head and waking them up on a fake spacecraft, it is extremely difficult to recreate the feeling of being out there.

FUN

Re:Zero G

[mcavic]

Already noted:

" Space veteran Sergei Krikalyov, who has spent a record 803 days in orbit, told Reuters: "It's useful but, sitting here on Earth, it won't solve real problems of long human exposure in space." "
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/03/us-russia-mars-isolation-idUSTRE7A22YD20111103

Re:Zero G

[stewbee]

While slightly anecdotal, I was a submariner. If we ever were to have severe flooding, we would be going down to never return in all likelihood. Fortunately there are varying degrees of flooding, However I recognize space is not as forgiving. Now this certainly is a small case of comparing apples to oranges, there are still some similarities. You're locked in a tube and there is no way out, and if you do find a way out, you are probably hosed anyway. People always ask me how did I coped with being on a sub, and didn't it make you claustrophobic . I answer honestly and say that I didn't think about it and that it didn't bother me. It was actually kind of enjoyable and cool. I imagine that there are other people like me who would have a similar attitude about being in a space vessel.

Re:Zero G

[Anonymous Coward]

Alright they had less fear, knowing that they are still on Earth; but they also had less excitement, knowing that it's not a real Mars mission. These effects might cancel out.

Re:Zero G

[danabnormal]

I somewhat agree. One might be able to argue that it could be worse psychologically too. In that I mean that the participants still know that they are on earth, so why do I need to wait 6 minutes (guessing at a time delta here...) to get a response from 'earth' when I know that it shouldn't take that long. It could make a play on the frustration aspect of human psychology. If I were in space, I would just know that it's a limitation of radio waves being limited to the speed of light. On earth, it's just make believe. Just playing devil's advocate here.

I agree with all of that. I'm a smoker. If I go on a transatlantic flight, I not once 'need' to have a cig or a craving, because I know that it just cannot, in anyway happen. The second you get to the terminal is a different matter tho....

Re:Zero G

[Anonymous Coward]

Who cares? Who can simulate their spouses being faithful for two years?

Are these social effects also studied?

Re:Zero G

[flahwho]

they were still locked in a small box for 520 days and didnt go nutso...id say effective simulation with comparable results to what would happen in real- (off) world situation

Re:Zero G

[SpooForBrains]

I thought it was the 15th Wednesday After Pentecost

Re:Zero G

[hipp5]

Sure, but it is the first step towards more effective studies. You don't just start with sending people in to space for two years. Imagine if the opposite outcome of this study had occurred, i.e. they all went batshit crazy. Well then we could say, "locking people up for two years in these relatively benign conditions made them crazy, it's just going to be a whole lot worse when we add in the stress of space. Maybe we should rethink our plans." But that didn't happen, so the results of this experiment tell us that two years in relatively benign conditions are ok, now we can up the ante and try something a little more stressful.

Re:Zero G

[skids]

Well, they could, without telling the occupants ahead of time, have mission control tell them there has been a nuclear war and not to leave the compound until they can get a team out to safely extract them. Or zombie apocalypse. Actually a more believable scenario could be contrived by building the habitat down a mineshaft and claiming there has been a cave-in.

Re:Zero G

[shaitand]

Of course it can. There are bathrooms.

Re:Zero G

[Yo Grark]

I was thinking just drop them in the Ocean at a deep depth to add to the simulation. There's no-one coming for you in an emergency in that case, and there's a very real possibility of system failure.

Yo Grark

Re:Zero G

[camperdave]

How did they simulate zero gravity and its adverse effects on the human body??

Why would you need to? On a long duration journey such as this you would design the craft to spin in order to simulate gravity. You would start off at a rotation rate that would give an Earth normal gravity. Then, over the course of the trip to Mars, you would reduce the spin rate, so that when the craft arrived at Mars, the crew would be acclimatized to Mars normal gravity. During the return trip, you would start off at a spin rate that emulates the gravity of Mars, and increase the spin rate so that when the craft arrives back at Earth, the crew is re-acclimatized to Earth normal gravity. The only time they would be weightless is during the various docking phases of the journey, an amount of time no more than a couple of hours or a day at most.

Re:Zero G

[Tom]

Of course it's a simulation and thus there are differences to the real thing.

However, things like this tend to look differently from the inside than they do from the outside. The emotions of being trapped in a confined space for an extended time are not entirely rational, and if you are inside something for months you can lose track of where exactly you are, even if some part of your brain still "knows" that you are all safe.

It's as close as you can get with all the various other conditions (like the constant monitoring you couldn't do on a sub, the nearest real-life comparison) that needed to be met.

It's a valid experiment. Taking the things into consideration that would be different in a real mars mission is, of course, the job of the people doing the analysis.

Re:Zero G

[MBGMorden]

As much as I want to get a mission to Mars going, I have to agree.

There's a HUGE difference in the stress involved in being locked in a room where you know if you freak out the experiment will end and you can get out and go home, and being locked in an actual spacecraft where if you freak out opening the door kills you and everyone else on board.

That said, this IS about as close as we're going to get to such a simulation without doing something mad-scientist insane (ie, rigging the experiment so that it can't end prematurely and if the doors open the participants actually die).

We're not actually going to get much better data until we actually give a mission an honest try.

Re:Zero G

[Electricity Likes Me]

I think being a submariner is probably way closer to the type of danger involved then you're giving it credit for. There are many different grades of space-craft puncture - it's not like one nick and the whole thing blows up explosive-decompression style.

Re:Zero G

[Plunky]

Still, I agree that this isn't a very good test. One of the biggest factors on our sanity wasn't part of this test: fear. Even in low orbit, you know that a relatively thin layer of metal is all that protects you from death. If you have a major health issue, there are no ambulances to take you to the ER. Death literally surrounds you every moment you're out there, and living with that for nearly two years would likely take its toll.

Why do you think that? Do you yourself panic when you might be out of range of an ambulance in case you have a heart attack? I personally have spent 30 days crossing an ocean alone in a small boat, separated from the sea by 3mm of steel. If I had had a major medical emergency I would have likely died but I was not afraid during that time, and I would not be afraid to do it again..

Re:Zero G

[painandgreed]

However I recognize space is not as forgiving.

Actually, I think that space is much more forgiving that deep pressures. In a submarine, your vehicle is under huge pressures and a small leak could turn catastrophic due to high pressure water streams coming through into the ship. A space vehicle however never really has to deal with more than 1 atmosphere pressure, and usually a lot less as the atmosphere in a spacecraft is made thinner with higher oxygen content to maintain proper partial pressure. Due to the low pressure differential, and because the air is going out, a leak will take a good amount of time to actually do much damage and can probably be found and at least temporarily fixed by putting anything over the hole that would form a gas seal capable of handling one atmosphere.

Professor Hubert Farnsworth: Good Lord! That's over 5000 atmospheres of pressure!
Fry: How many atmospheres can the ship withstand?
Professor Hubert Farnsworth: Well, it was built for space travel, so anywhere between zero and one.

Re:Zero G

[TheCRAIGGERS]

Do you yourself panic when you might be out of range of an ambulance in case you have a heart attack? I personally have spent 30 days crossing an ocean alone in a small boat, separated from the sea by 3mm of steel. If I had had a major medical emergency I would have likely died but I was not afraid during that time, and I would not be afraid to do it again..

I suppose there is an element of control to it. I've been camping in places where death is a real possibility, and you're right- I didn't fear the entire time that if I were to break a leg, I would certainly die before somebody found me.

Perhaps its similar to how one can be perfectly fine driving a car, but flying in a plane can be harrowing. I've also noticed personally that I'm more tense while riding as a passenger in a car than while driving. Stop signs seem to approach so much faster when it's not my foot on the break pedal.

Also, in your example, there are not many things to go wrong. I'm guessing your boat had at least one backup method of propulsion. A radio that can reach a few miles. Even if the worst happened and your ship broke apart, you'd have a good chance of surviving for a few days without food or water. In space, there are many things to go wrong, and hardly any backup options for those that do.

Re:Zero G

[Russ1642]

They can't simulate everything a real mission involves. I'm shocked. Remember that this is just research and practice. We have actual spaceflights to study the fear aspects, and the zero gravity. You just have to simulate what you can. I've flown certified flight simulators before and even though it didn't simulate real turbulence, or knowing that I could crash the plane and then go have lunch doesn't mean it wasn't valuable experience. Not being at real risk is the whole point.

Re:Zero G

[Original Replica]

Why on why would they ever send out a Mars mission without spinning the living quarters on a long tether? Counter weight the tether with computers/sensors/batteries and put the weight variable items like fuel at the axis. 2000' tether at 1/2 rpm will give a reasonable gravity and have minimal nausea producing effects. If ISS did any real experiments, instead of shoebox tests designed by high school classes, centrifugal gravity for space would have most of the kinks worked out by now.

Re:Zero G

[profplump]

Which might be a fine stage 2, but in stage 1 if you're testing to see if these people will freak out and murder each other you maybe don't want to put them hours from help an in a precarious capsule -- the whole point of the test is to see if such a journey is safe, and it's not much of a test if a failure results in the same deaths you'd get on-mission.

Re:Zero G

[stewbee]

In a submarine, your vehicle is under huge pressures and a small leak could turn catastrophic due to high pressure water streams coming through into the ship

My memory is a little hazy on the specifics, but I will share this too. Every now and then, the boat would send some people over to the flooding trainer. they covered the basics on how to apply various flood stoppage techniques. If I recall correctly, they certainly didn't recommend putting your hand/body into any fluid streams. I think the primary concern was so much that you would have a liquid laser in the case of a fine stream, similar to what happens when you put your thumb over a hose, but more that if you had anything in your hand that would then get knocked out and then become a fast moving projectile.

This was particularly true for one technique that was used to stop a rupture from a pipe. If the hole/gash in pipe as the right size, then they had these curved metal pieces with rubber on one side that would match the contour of the pipe. The idea is then to put this piece of metal across the pipe, apply pressure , which then would be sealed by the rubber. It was amazing at how effective it was in stopping the leaks in the simulator. The problem being, if you did this wrong, this would be a lethal projectile. The idea was to then pre-secure this metal patch a few inches away from the pipe with some metal banding and then inch it down the pipe until it covered the hole. Then the final compression was applied to the metal banding. When everything was done, you would hardly know there was a leak there.

All in all, I thought this was the best, funnest, and most practical training that I think I have ever had. Granted, if this was happening while I was on the boat in a real situation I would probably not find it so fun, but I wouldn't be useless either on what to do if needed.

Re:Zero G

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure it's not the third Wednesday after Pentecost?

Re:Zero G

[atrain728]

No doubt, it's not an all-inclusive test But just because every factor wasn't simulated doesn't mean things cannot be learned from such a test. If there is a better test that can be done, when it is done solutions to the problems identified by this test can be tested as well.

Re:Zero G

[Coren22]

If you click on the picture, it says they did it with camera tricks...I really want a better description, that guy in the upper left really looks like he is floating.

Pretty good joke though.

Re:Zero G

[Coren22]

Take her with you...

Re:Zero G

[CrimsonAvenger]

I did the flood trainer when I was in the Navy too.

Gives you a good perspective on the problems of holes in your boat.

But, all in all, spending three or four hours in the simulator patching leaks was great fun, really.

Re:Zero G

[Tangential]

They didn't; this was a psychological experiment. We already know what long-term zero G does; we have the ISS for that.

Agreed.

I do wonder though how they simulated the stress associated with the potentials of massive equipment failure, rupture of a compartment in space, collision with small, rapidly moving objects, etc... Space travelers, even those in the ISS have to maintain a certain level of alertness and be constantly prepared to deal with such incidents. 520 days of that small background stress is bound to add up and impact health and behavior.

Re:Zero G

[tom17]

I did a flood trainer on a team building excercise with a company I used to work at. With a load of geeks who were not trained for it, swinging hammers at wooden wedges in the cold dark with water fast approaching your neck.

I was into it unti the hammers were flying near my hands. Sorry, not worth it for me at the time. Tat said, the experience was great :)

Re:Zero G

[Anonymous Coward]

It better be safe since America is pumping all the money into getting a rocket with enough payload to get us there.

Re:Zero G

[g253]

Plus there's good science to be done, and it could lead to new insights for space exploration too.

Re:Zero G

[nmos]

Anyone else here remember a TV show called "Space Cadets"?

Re:Zero G

[Thomsen]

How did they simulate zero gravity and its adverse effects on the human body??

This has already been done years ago. You can simulate the influence of microgravity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weightlessness#Microgravity on the cardiovascular system and the skeleton using so called head down bed rest. The idea is if you are laying down at a down tilt of e.g. 5 degrees and are not allowed to stand up or sit up during the experiment you can simulate both the influence on the cardiovascular system and the unloading of the bones.

In the late 1980ies a 370-day-long head down tilt bed rest experiment was carried out in the Soviet Union, which is the bed rest study of the longest duration yet. This study showed that it was possible to counteract the immobilization induced bone loss by doing 1-2 hours of exercise per day combined with treatment with a pharmaceutical (a bisphosphonate, which is part of a group of agents that is currently used for treating/preventing osteoporosis [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphosphonate]). A control group who did not do any countermeasures experienced a significant loss of bone mass after 120 days of bed rest, after which they also stated the same exercise regimen as the other participants and seemed to regain some of the lost bone.

Citation: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16235873
(For reasons that is not clear to me this study was not published and the samples were put on storage unanalyzed until we got access to them. We analyzed the bone samples and published them with the original investigators from Russia and France.)

Re:Zero G

[Hentes]

The Russians experimented with this, several of their astronauts stayed at MIR for similar amounts of time.

Pretty cool, but...

[The Grim Reefer2]

How realistic is this except for the psychological aspect? How easy will it be to stay healthy in 0g?

Re:Pretty cool, but...

[tverbeek]

That's beyond the scope of this experiment.

Between Mir and ISS, we already have some pretty good data about the physiological impact of medium-term weightlessness.

Re:Pretty cool, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

They could simulate gravity.
I believe this was experimented with to see if it works and I think it was successful, and even gave an equation to limit the nauseating effects of artificial gravity through rotation.

In addition to that, a recent paper was released that showed that the anti-oxidants in red grapes (wine and drinks too) can protect against inactivity, and possibly even prevent a lot of damage from 0g, done to muscles and the like, which is a huge problem and requires a lot of maintenance.
Prevent damage to muscles from inactivity (best I can find at the moment)

So long story short, lets get our astronauts off their heads, FOR SCIENCE!

Re:Pretty cool, but...

[kirillart]

Titov and Manarov spent 365 days in space in a single mission in 1987..1988. Then Manarov logged another 175 days on Mir, couple of years later. So, I guess, he was in pretty good health after his first mission ;-)

I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Covalent]

...but this is an important experiment to perform. Obviously they can't easily simulate the zero-g, radiation exposure, etc. of a long space mission, but the psychological question of "can you lock 5 people in a single-wide trailer for 2 years and expect them to not go completely bat shit insane?" is a valid one.

520 days is definitely enough to complete a round-trip Mars mission. This experiment suggests that you can successfully go "there and back again" without making your astronauts lose their mind.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[somersault]

Well, these specific astronauts. I wonder if they'd all be prepared to do the real thing now, or if once was enough?

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Anonymous Coward]

Except for the fact that the subjects know that they had help available from the outside in case of emergency.

I doubt they said "Oh, by the way, even if you all start dying and/or killing one another, we will NEVER open up and help you."

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad we have nothing like the technology and resources required though. Still, it's fun to dream. Once, I kept a Britney Spears doll in my bed for two years, so I know I can go "there and back again".

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[s_p_oneil]

While I agree, there's one important psychological factor this study left out, and that's the potential fear that you may not make it back. I don't know how they'd be able to successfully simulate that.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Anonymous Coward]

This is not the first time they made this experiment. The first two times it failed.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Anonymous Coward]

On one side, the stress of knowing that if anything breaks you'll evaporate in space could break your sanity. On the other, knowing you'll be the first person in another planet should help on not breaking your sanity. On the third side, deciding who'll be the first to touch down on Mars and becoming a world symbol can produce a murderous individual.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Anonymous Coward]

Place a bomb inside with the detonator attached to a PRNG...
Of course no-one's going to agree to doing that...

But you could always pretend them you have, but only tell them after you've locked them in.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Surt]

You can't even pretend. Not in any first-world country. Illegal without informed consent, which voids the usefulness.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[virgnarus]

...but the psychological question of "can you lock 5 people in a single-wide trailer for 2 years and expect them to not go completely bat shit insane?" is a valid one.

Aren't there already scenarios like this with those in military service in nuclear subs?

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[vadim_t]

That risk existed on every space shuttle flight. Doesn't seem to have been a problem.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Culture20]

On one side, the stress of knowing that if anything breaks you'll evaporate in space could break your sanity. On the other, knowing you'll be the first person in another planet should help on not breaking your sanity. On the third side, deciding who'll be the first to touch down on Mars and becoming a world symbol can produce a murderous individual.

So swinging between paranoia and megalomania. Sounds healthy.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Stargoat]

Nonsense. It was not valid and even a waste of money.

British sailing Man-of-Wars would be out of contact with land for months at a time. American Whalers reported being at sea for three years in pursuit of the South Sea sperm whales. Those men did perfectly fine. These ships sometimes had hundreds of people and the men did not go bat shit insane.

No, there is far too much molly-coddling and concern for people's feelings in these matters. Get a small group of professional men together and Mars will be easily visited. If we as humans put our minds to it - colonized.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Anonymous Coward]

or trailer parks??

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[harperska]

These ships sometimes had hundreds of people

might possibly be the reason why

 

the men did not go bat shit insane.

When you get to hundreds of people, you now have a small community. Living in 'isolation' with 500 people for 3 years is night and day compared to the psychological experience of living in isolation with 5.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Custard Horse]

I have unwittingly been involved in a speeded up version of this experiment when travelling south to visit the in-laws at Christmas. 4 days is the equivalent of a year down there. I would have happily greased myself by throwing myself out of an airlock had I been in space.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[DerekLyons]

No, there is far too much molly-coddling and concern for people's feelings in these matters. Get a small group of professional men together and Mars will be easily visited.

I've actually lived in circumstances somewhat resembling those of this simulation - as a SSBN crewman. And let me assure you, people do indeed go bat shit insane under those conditions. The ships you so admire kept their crews under control with a combination of brutal discipline and extremely heavy physical work, something unlikely to be tried today, singly or in tandem.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Bucc5062]

British sailing Man-of-Wars would be out of contact with land for months at a time. American Whalers reported being at sea for three years in pursuit of the South Sea sperm whales. Those men did perfectly fine. These ships sometimes had hundreds of people and the men did not go bat shit insane.

That is just wrong. Those ships were not riding the seas for three years with no contact with land. They had to stop and times to provision, unload cargo, perform repairs that would require calm waters and materials from land. So perhaps they were away from"home" for three years, but natives in the south pacific may from time to time had blue eyed babies. There was also rampant "buggery", discipline through fear and violence and death was treated a part of the risk, not the exception. Out of a hundred crew members, if you lose one or two on a cruise you just re-hire in port or just make do. Lose a crew on a 5/6 man space mission has way more impact on every aspect of the mission.

Someone else mentioned subs that go on patrol for 5-6 months as a closer example to this experiment. In that I slightly agree, but 5-6 months is not 520 days. Subs are equipped with some of the best food products for meals, vast media libraries, and a military structure that (on the surface) sets a standard of behavior. No navy has tried to run a sub for 2 years non stop underwater. Now that may could close to an ideal on earth experiment.

It would be easy to say "just send em up and see what happens", but when you are talking Billions of dollars invested with no direct return? I can understand a step wise approach. Whaling ships were a lot cheaper to build (thus lose) then a Mars spacecraft.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[moderatorrater]

Put the trailer in Detroit?

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[idji]

18th century sailing to south pacific and back was essentially no different and they were gone 7 years or more.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Anonymous Coward]

One of the pilots was a gay black atheist and the rest were from Texas.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Anonymous Coward]

One word: Islands.
Okay, Islands and ports.
Please read Moby Dick and get back to me.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Jeng]

Perhaps if they had to deal with LSD randomly being put in their food they might be able to simulate the potential fear that they might not make it back.

Actually think they should have drugged one person every now and then to simulate someone loosing it.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[tlhIngan]

No, there is far too much molly-coddling and concern for people's feelings in these matters. Get a small group of professional men together and Mars will be easily visited. If we as humans put our minds to it - colonized.

Actually, that's less likely to happen. Most likely is that one of them would go batshit insane and the mission gets aborted.

The primary reason is humans are social creatures, and interactions with others are necessary for survival (it usually happens often enough for most people that no one thinks about it). Hell, even your old timey ships rarely sailed for 2 years without stopping for resupply somewhere (see "social"). Sure it may not be with family, but any contact is better than none. (With a Mars trip, the delay makes real-time communications impossible).

And like others have said, there's a lot of discipline and justice issued - "walking the plank" is not a metaphor but a common punishment. New crew can always be hired in the next port (which wouldn't usually be too long).

Basically, the experiment is if you put 5 people in a trailer with proper simulated contact - will they get cabin fever? And what kind of crew make up will lessen the chances? Long-distance discipline is much harder, so do you run the crew as a strict military unit, or as a loose organization?

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[JoshuaZ]

Humans aren't little psychological weaklings. We've known this pretty well for a long time. In the 1500s sailors set out in small groups in difficult conditions (in many ways more difficult and cramped then a mission to Mars would be) for years at a time with zero communication with home. In contrast people on a Mars mission will have a higher chance of return and will be in constant communication with their friends and loved ones (aside from a few minutes of delay due to the speed of light) which makes things even easier. We don't need to wonder if human psychology lets us survive such circumstances. We already know they can. These experiments are not a good use of limited resources.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but those flights didn't last the better part of two years.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[s_p_oneil]

How many space shuttle flights have lasted over 500 days? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the total is 0. It is very possible for stress to build up over time, for fears to increase over time. In the case of the Mars trip, I would think the farther you got from Earth (and any chance of help being sent to you), the more it would weigh upon your mind.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[argStyopa]

I'm not sure that wouldn't reasonably be countered by the adrenaline/motivation of the significance of the mission. First humans on another planet? Does it get bigger than that ever?

In fact, I'd almost think that the long term effects of this motivation/stress might be even greater than the fear-factor.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[s_p_oneil]

Man, that was a good one. If I hadn't already posted on this one, I'd mod you up. ;-)

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[davewoods]

This is not the first time they made this experiment. The first two times it failed.

[Citation Needed]

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Provocateur]

But where is the 'And how is my newborn test tube offspring doing?' when they came back?

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[0123456]

While I agree, there's one important psychological factor this study left out, and that's the potential fear that you may not make it back. I don't know how they'd be able to successfully simulate that.

A friend spent three years working in Antarctica. Some of the people he worked with didn't make it back after they got lost in a snow storm and were never seen again. None of them started chopping people up with an axe.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[GameboyRMH]

What extremely heavy physical work can you do regularly on a sub? Did they make you haul heavy stuff from one end to the other and back, or put you on an exercise machine with orders to do 500 reps or what?

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Anonymous Coward]

Send them to Venus?

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[shadowrat]

Yes, but if I'm on the mars mission, i take solace in knowing all of the obstacles that are surmountable. Is sitting in this tin can for 500 days going to kill me? It didn't kill those other guys so that's 1 less thing to worry about. Now i can devote more attention to how to deal with the alien virus controlling Lt. Smith.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[pluther]

That's even better, actually. If you have some that failed and some that succeeded, that can help you isolate what factors made it fail or succeed and make sure to include/not include those factors. I would think a mixture of failures and successes in this kind of test would be much more useful than a couple of successes with no failures would be.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Altus]

Well people have stayed on the space station for up to 200 days at a go.

It might weight on your mind and it might weigh on mine, but there are a lot of people who are very well suited to that kind of thing, I suspect most of it is just not dwelling on it rather than simply being indomitable in the face of danger.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Pope]

Gone from their homes for 7 years, not on the sea with no landfall for 7 years.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Anonymous Coward]

What extremely heavy physical work can you do regularly on a sub? Did they make you haul heavy stuff from one end to the other and back, or put you on an exercise machine with orders to do 500 reps or what?

A few things that come to mind:
* Teardown and rebuild of <insert machine here>
* Clean and polish <insert location here>
* Visual inspection of <insert system here>
* Move supplies from long-term storage to <insert location here>

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[idji]

sure there are difference, but they had NO communication with home for years on end, not like these twitterers who were only a short time away. I am just saying there is something we can learn from history - some things have certainly been done before - or early 20th century antarctic explorers locked up in ice or blizzards for more than a year.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps not. But think of this as a small scale experiment.

To further test the isolation and to put a "fear" factor in these types of experiments, we should really start looking at outposts deep in the ocean. This would pose a real risk and simulate isolation to a much more accurate extent.

Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes...

[drinkypoo]

It would be easy to say "just send em up and see what happens", but when you are talking Billions of dollars invested with no direct return? I can understand a step wise approach. Whaling ships were a lot cheaper to build (thus lose) then a Mars spacecraft.

At one time they were saying "raiding parties are a lot cheaper to send out than a whaling ship" but they went a-whalin' anyway, and the rest is history.

Mars = New Australia

[MrSmith0011000100110]

Why don't we send convicts and CEO's(yes I know, same difference) on a space barge to Mars? Now discounting that they might run into an extra terrestrial, we get to solve a bunch of the world's problems a few billion dollars at a time.

Re:Mars = New Australia

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget the telephone sanitizers.

Re:Mars = New Australia

[ZeroSumHappiness]

They're not the same. CEOs haven't been convicted of the felonies they've committed.

Re:Mars = New Australia

[Leebert]

Because people like me would start committing heinous crimes in hopes of being selected to go?

It's not like there's a shortage of people WILLING to go, even one way. Heck, even one way with a death certainty.

cosplay

[tverbeek]

They so should have greeted the emerging "astronauts" wearing gorilla, chimp, and orangutan masks.

Re:cosplay

[Seth Leedy]

That would just be great !

Re:cosplay

[bityz]

darn it! where is that "like" button when you need it?

Re:cosplay

[Anonymous Coward]

you just killed a part of me and slashdot

Re:cosplay

[Anonymous Coward]

Now comes the part where they simulate being infected with alien organisms which digest everything they touch and can't be stopped.

Wired

[kodiaktau]

Wired's article in this last month was ok on the subject. This is really to see how some human lab rats can handle extended periods in a tank together. Funny thing is that there are others who have done this in space for longer with and without other humans.

Anyone else...

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone else notice the boss-eyed man?

He gave me a chuckle.

sorry, but no

[rjejr]

Being locked in a room ON EARTH for 520 days doesn't even begin to measure the mental strain of being in SPACE for 520 days. I'm guessing if 1 of the 6 did go batshit w/ a knife police would have been sent in to stop this "experiment". For the first half of the trip every day in space is getting further from home w/ the excitement of being the first people to Mars, the way back to Earth they'll probably eat each other. But not in a good way.

Re:sorry, but no

[Anonymous Coward]

You have to start somewhere, this is still a valuable data point. Integrated "test" is hard to do without actually doing the real thing so... Just my $0.05

Re:sorry, but no

[tverbeek]

No, this really is how you "begin to measure the mental strain". First you test to see whether it's possible for them to survive a simulation of just the isolation and confinement, but without the weightlessness and danger. If-and-only-if that test goes well, you proceed to the next step (whatever that might be).

Re:sorry, but no

[Reservoir Penguin]

With proper variable isolation a lot of useful psychological data can be obtained from such experiment, do not discard it just because it's not 100 percent like a real thing.

Re:sorry, but no

[Oswald McWeany]

That is quite presumptious of you- he could be a Kiwi. I think $0.05 (NZD) is approximately $0.02 (USD).

This is an international community.

Re:sorry, but no

[Unkyjar]

And the Stanford prison experiment was nothing like actual prison, but somehow people were still psychologically effected in the same way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

(guinea)Pigs Innnn Spaaaaaacee!!!!

[Anne_Nonymous]

>> they were locked into a cluster of hermetically sealed habitat modules... ...lined with newspaper, and full of wood shavings and exercise wheels.

international crew?

[tverbeek]

Unfortunately there's one big flaw in this experiment. The crew consisted of "three Russians, one Chinese and two [other] Europeans", which only demonstrates that Eurasians are capable of living together in that limited space for that period of time. We still don't know if an American could get along with them for that long. :)

Re:international crew?

[Baloroth]

Doesn't matter. You want the launch craft as light as possible, so you wouldn't send an American anyways. :)

Re:international crew?

[SteveFoerster]

We could send Barack Obama. Europeans seem to love him!

Re:international crew?

[Oswald McWeany]

Yes, but that is because he isn't really an American.

/ it's a joke guys- relax.

Re:international crew?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, the USA abandoned manned space flight anyway, so no worries there. If they're smart, they'd refuse any american that offered to go to begin with.

And why are you imply that it's a big flaw that there wasn't an american? You make it sound like any project is doomed to failure if an american isn't included in it. Have you looked around lately? Hell, recent history would indicate that having an american around is a way to GUARANTEE failure!

Re:international crew?

[qwertyatwork]

Send him back to his home planet. He still hasn't showed us the long-long birth certificate.

Re:international crew?

[SteveFoerster]

Ahhh, that's a good point. How do we know he's really human? Has he submitted to a DNA test to prove it?

Re:international crew?

[qwertyatwork]

He's probably a damned space muslim.

Re:international crew?

[SteveFoerster]

They do have the moon as their logo. Case closed!

Re:international crew?

[Oswald McWeany]

Of course they exist!

Haven't you seen "History of the World Part II"?

Re:international crew?

[Anonymous Coward]

There was an american. a South-American

What about the stress of hazardous flight?

[perpenso]

How did they simulate zero gravity and its adverse effects on the human body??

Mir and ISS have done that. This seems to be a psychological test regarding isolation. However without the extreme risk of actual interplanetary spaceflight the psychological data might be limited. The stress of such a risk has to have an effect.

Which make me wonder if candidates for a Mars mission should be "old school" astronauts, those with experience as test pilots and who probably flew combat missions as well, or who did night carrier landing (*), etc.

(*) Maybe its a myth but I once heard that during the Vietnam war the US Navy wired up some pilots to record vital signs related to stress. Pilots were more stressed during night carrier landings than on combat missions near/over Hanoi (a very hazardous area for these pilots).

Re:What about the stress of hazardous flight?

[Oswald McWeany]

I don't think anyone stayed in a space station for 520 days though.

As bad as health degredation from being in space a short period of time is- wonder if they'll all come back from Mars blind, bent bones, muscles atrophied and carrying the mutant virus from "Species II"

Re:What about the stress of hazardous flight?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear god, not reading articles is one thing, but not bothering to use wikipedia for such a trivial fact check? Several people stayed in orbit for a year or more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight_records#Ten_longest_human_space_flights

Re:What about the stress of hazardous flight?

[Custard Horse]

That's all well and good but how are we to know if any of this is useful until we have managed to put somebody into space? It's all fantasy until then...

Re:What about the stress of hazardous flight?

[DerekLyons]

Which make me wonder if candidates for a Mars mission should be "old school" astronauts, those with experience as test pilots and who probably flew combat missions as well, or who did night carrier landing, etc.

None of those professions have any experience with long term isolation and any resulting stress. Their coping mechanisms are based around dealing with missions at most a few hours long the effects and after effects of adrenaline for brief periods. On top of that, a Mars mission includes very little actual flying.
 
So why should astronauts be pilots at all?
 
If you want individuals used to the stress of working under conditions of long term isolation in close quarters - look to submarines and to Antarctic overwinter crews.

Re:What about the stress of hazardous flight?

[perpenso]

I don't think anyone stayed in a space station for 520 days though.

Valeri Polyakov, launched 8 January 1994 (Soyuz TM-18), stayed at Mir for 437.7 days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight_records#Ten_longest_human_space_flights

Re:What about the stress of hazardous flight?

[perpenso]

I don't think anyone stayed in a space station for 520 days though.

Valeri Polyakov, launched 8 January 1994 (Soyuz TM-18), stayed at Mir for 437.7 days. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight_records#Ten_longest_human_space_flights

Also of note: Sergei Krikalev has spent 803 days, 9 hours and 39 minutes, or 2.2 years in space over the span of six spaceflights on Soyuz, the Space Shuttle, Mir, and International Space Station.

Re:What about the stress of hazardous flight?

[GameboyRMH]

(*) Maybe its a myth but I once heard that during the Vietnam war the US Navy wired up some pilots to record vital signs related to stress. Pilots were more stressed during night carrier landings than on combat missions near/over Hanoi (a very hazardous area for these pilots).

Makes sense. It's easier to dodge AA fire or a missile than to fix a bad carrier approach.

Re:What about the stress of hazardous flight?

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, If you get hit by AA you're a hero. If you fuck up a landing you're on the shitlist.

Re:What about the stress of hazardous flight?

[Rob Nance]

I think the night landing thing is because of a lack of control over the situation. Fighter pilots are cocky, and they need to be, they can't be second guessing themselves. They need to be confident in their abilities, just like a race car driver, otherwise the self doubt will get you killed. So because of that, you raise good point. The astronauts would have little control over the risks in space flight, and thus would be under added stress from that alone, not to mention other things that have been mentioned like if you had a health problem, etc. I can relate to the lack of control thing from personal experience. I quit riding sportbikes not because of a doubt in my abilities, but because of unknown variables like other drivers, debris on roads, poor roads, etc. Once you start worrying about that stuff, you lose your edge and willingness to commit.

Re:What about the stress of hazardous flight?

[AchilleTalon]

There is still a major difference between all these flights and stay in space. In all cases, they were still protected by the Earth magnetic field to a certain extend. On an eventually flight to Mars, they won't be and they will be exposed to a high radiation level for a much longer time in row, which is having some kind of importance in the capability of the body to recover from the damages caused by the radiations.

So, in order to produce a more realistic experiment the next time they should plan to install the dummy vessel near Fukushima.

Shocking news.

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome to Earth, Steve Jobs is DEAD!!

Re:Shocking news.

[Culture20]

They had extremely high latency communications.

Re:

[taiwanjohn]

In Soviet Russia, damn-dirty-apes control YOU!

Newlywed?

[V-similitude]

Sitev, who led the team into the quarters just a few weeks after getting married, said he dreams about going to the seaside.

Boy, that's some crazy dedication to science . . . or maybe just crazy.

Re:Newlywed?

[Oswald McWeany]

I'm married.

I would SO volunteer to get locked away for two years.

Re:Newlywed?

[pavon]

Yeah, I don't get that either. When I was single I would've signed up for a one-way trip to Mars, or a year-long stay in Antartica, or whatever in a heartbeat. Now, I wouldn't even take a job with lots of travel unless she is okay with it. Why create strong emotional bonds with someone only to turn around and not see them for years?

But in a similarly thousands of military men keep popping out kids during "war time" knowing they will likely be redeployed shortly and won't see them for years, if ever. Why would you do that? Why would you put that kind of burden on your wife? Why intentionally create children if you aren't going be there to support them and enjoy them. I just don't get it.

Re:Newlywed?

[Oswald McWeany]

if you aren't going be there to support them and enjoy them

You don't have kids, do you?

Re:Newlywed?

[Anonymous Coward]

if you aren't going be there to support them and enjoy them

You don't have kids, do you?

Given this and your other comment, your life sounds pretty terrible. Sorry.

Re:Newlywed?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sad to see a man who has apparently never had any enjoyment from his children.

Re:Newlywed?

[mjr167]

Point 1: Not all children are intentionally created.

Point 2: Life keeps on moving. Let's say you are in the military and married. You and your wife want to have kids at some point. There is a war going on and you are spending a lot of time deployed... do you wait for the war to end? That could be years or decades... You might get killed. The best time to have kids is when you are young. Do you wait and potentially give up the possibility of EVER having kids? When I got married someone told me that you can never afford to have children so you might as well do it when you are young. The world will NEVER be completely safe and stable.

Point 3: It's not exactly fair to say that military personal or other parents that travel a lot are not supporting their families. They are sending paychecks home that pay the bills.

Point 4: Different lifestyles work for different people. Just because one family's situation wouldn't work for you and your family, doesn't make it wrong or less valid. Some people can't fathom having ANY children and some people have 18. Presumably people traveling like that derive value from their work and it is a situation both parts of the marriage signed up for. Also, today, we have the internet. My child gets to see her grandparents who live over 1000 miles away every week. I have friends where the husband spends 5 days out of every week traveling and he still sees and talks to his children every day. Yes, you don't get to pick them up and toss them in the air, but it is rather disingenuous to imply you are absent from their lives. Some parents live with their children and manage to be more absent than parents that spend most of their time away.

Re:Newlywed?

[khallow]

Maybe you ought to figure out answers to these questions instead of just asking them. A lot of things you can figure out if you think about it.

Oh, I remember this episode

[davidbrit2]

Some guy is wandering around an apparently deserted town, trying to figure out why he doesn't remember who he is. Then it turns out he's in the airforce, and just hallucinating. That was a pretty good one.

Re:Oh, I remember this episode

[GameboyRMH]

Haha that's the first thing I thought of XD

Is there a list of what they tried to do?.

[Shivetya]

As in, how to invoke panic in the team? Like how many times if any did they suffer electrical/comm/breather outages? And do it unscheduled?

With 520+ days I can assume you could totally not have any contact with them for three weeks or more on purpose to see the effects. Cruel perhaps, but we don't have a great understanding of how people react. This looks a like a nice first step.

Re:Is there a list of what they tried to do?.

[s_p_oneil]

But the participants still know it's a simulation with help on the other side of the door if something potentially dangerous occurs.

Biosphere 2.

[sidragon.net]

The Human Experiment: Two Years and Twenty Minutes Inside Biosphere 2 , by Jane Poynter, is highly relevant. Human relationships break down in surprising ways under these conditions.

Just ask Nelson Mandela how he got on.

[ciderbrew]

There are rather a few people who have been locked up for years longer and in worse conditions. They didn't know if any given day, was their last day either. Evidence on how people suffer when well outside an expected comfort zone must be well known. Ask a bomb disposal expert how they cope with knowing there is a higher than average chance of being killed at work. I bet polar scientists know a thing or two about remote working conditions and being cut off too.
But if you want a great example of how bat shit mental you go under stress watch any at sea Ellen MacArthur video diary. Nothing more fun that watching a a solo long-distance yachtswoman who doesn't like being a -distance yachtswoman break down on camera. High endurance levels over 71 days got to her rather quickly.
What's my point. erm you got me there.

Re:Just ask Nelson Mandela how he got on.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think your point is that exceptional people can handle exceptional stress for long periods. The rest of us can't. No one knows what category they fall in until they're tested. Nearly everyone thinks they are exceptional, while few really are.

The trick is finding those exceptional people and convincing them to go to Mars, without accidentally selecting someone who thinks they are exceptional but really aren't.

My hat's off to them

[huiac]

and I'm sure we all agree it's a tremendous achievement; but before we get too congratulatory, remember - now we have to bring them back.

ftfy

[Anonymous Coward]

'Simulated' 'Mars' 'Mission' 'Returns' After '520' 'Days'

Final way out...

[garf]

If is was psychological experiment did they have the ability to kill each other or press the air door and stop the whole mission by killing everyone? I mean it's not very realistic if there isn't a final 'way out'.

There is at least one recorded event on a Soviet Antarctic based of one guy killing another with an ice pick over a game of chess.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

No Girls?

[Anonymous Coward]

I would like to see what would it be for the sanity of those guys if they are inside that capsule for 520 days with another woman, specially a hot scandinavian astronaut or something like that.

Would be like "big brother in mars"

Re:No Girls?

[GameboyRMH]

Tried it before, things got a little sexual assault-y, that's why there was an all-male crew this time.

Community Effort

[Anonymous Coward]

Why waste budget on this when most of Slashdot is conducting ongoing long-term isolation experiments?

Re:Community Effort

[Oswald McWeany]

There is actually a big difference. Most of the slashdotters access the back pages of a sears catalogue.

Sears doesn't yet deliver catalogs to space capsules.

Life thretening situations?

[wfstanle]

I totally agree with you!. The psychology of the situation is flawed. Consider the following situation...

One of the test subjects has a serious life threating situation, say a heart attack or a stroke. He needs much more care than can be provided in the test environment. Do the people running the experiment just let him die or stop the experiment to help him? I'll bet they would not let him die, it's just human nature to do something if it is possible.. The subjects of the experiment know that the experiment can be stopped in such situations even if they are told that nothing will be done. What can the experimenters do, let him die? Therein lies the flaw in the experiment, on an actual trip to Mars, it will be impossible to get him more medical care than what is available in the space capsule.

Re:Life thretening situations?

[todrules]

On the next experiment, they should plan to have some kind of "catastrophic event" happen outside the capsule. Tell them that there was an earthquake or something, and they can't get to them, and it could take months or years to get them out. This would help simulate that feeling of fear and panic.

Re:Life thretening situations?

[Electricity Likes Me]

That's still different though. It's not like a space missions is totally uncontrolled. The Apollo astronauts knew it would take 3 days to get to the moon as long as the ship was functioning correctly. And it had been done enough times before that as long as the ship was functioning correctly this would be the case.

Now while it's true that a Mars mission would be a definite "first" it's not like the trip is not well understood, given the volume of probes we send there.

Which is quite different to "you are trapped in an unstable situation which can't be fixed". Most of the non-fatal things which could happen to a spacecraft are somewhat fixable - even getting to Mars is still just gravity capture.

Great, so they didn't summon a demon...

[Anonymous Coward]

... through a singularity device and collapse into abject homicidal psychosis. That's my benchmark for "psychologically valid".

Right then, just a few technical issues to sort out and you can send the away team.

We are fighting the last war

[kurt555gs]

Robots are getting so good, that the need for manned exploration of places like Mars is past it's prime. We could be drilling for water on Europa and mapping Io and many more mission if we saved on manned exploration of Mars. We could have a nuclear powered glider swooping around Mars at low altitude gathering data. The need for humans in places that are dangerous to them is moot. Robots can do this for less.

Re:We are fighting the last war

[Anonymous Coward]

Sigh,

During Apollo 17 Gene Cernan and Harisson Schmitt covered more ground, conducted more science and collected more samples in 3 days than Sprit and Opportunity, combined, have in the 7 years they've been on Mars. While robots are improving, humans are still orders of magnitude more capable at exploration, the big question is, are the extra science worth the extra cost.

Re:We are fighting the last war

[kurt555gs]

Then, make it a one way mission. Problem solved.

Re:We are fighting the last war

[Hentes]

The skills of robots is still very limited compared to humans.

520 days out and..

[Anonymous Coward]

what? no girls in the crew?

Re:520 days out and..

[Oswald McWeany]

520 / 28 = 18.6

I don't think the men would have survived,

Why would they want to go

[wolfheart111]

What would the purpose to even send humans to mars. There is really no point but so send only rovers and such.

Re:Why would they want to go

[Oswald McWeany]

* Reason for Science:
There are some thing a robot cannot do. Humans are more adaptable and can travel more than a few feet a day.

* Reason for money:
Being the nation(s) with a manned presence would probably help any claims to any potential resources found- more so than a robot- and a manned expedition would be more dynamic- no slow communications between so resources would be found easier.

* Reason for status:
Big national status symbol (which does help national pride and presitge with other nations).

* Reason for humanity:
Humans will one day need to leave earth if we are to extend the life-span of our species. This is the first step.

* Reason for defense:
Anyone who has ever played any space civilization game will know that the species that spreads their population to the most planets early in the game is most likely to win.

/ the last reason is the best.

Re:Why would they want to go

[Hentes]

Also, this this would bring back interest in science, improving funding and inspiring a generation to be scientists.

It's a hoax!

[daveewart]

I think this is all a hoax. I think they really went to Mars.

Re:It's a hoax!

[Anonymous Coward]

But will re-enact the video footage in the Nevada desert in slow motion to make it look more legitimate. =P

Its not the piloting skills ...

[perpenso]

So why should astronauts be pilots at all?

I could have phrased things better. I didn't really mean to suggest they should necessarily all be test pilots, that was more of a reference to what old school astronauts were. I think they should all have some sort of experience in extremely high risk activities where things go wrong and someone has to deal with it really really quickly. Preferably having actually experienced such situations. I think having experienced such situations and having dealt with them is what is the more important characteristic of test and combat pilots, not necessarily their piloting skills.

Re:Its not the piloting skills ...

[DerekLyons]

Disclaimer: I am a former SSBN crewman, a missile fire control technician to be exact.
 

I could have phrased things better. I didn't really mean to suggest they should necessarily all be test pilots, that was more of a reference to what old school astronauts were. I think they should all have some sort of experience in extremely high risk activities where things go wrong and someone has to deal with it really really quickly.

But that's the thing - pilots aren't the only people to have those reflexes and experiences. In addition, spacecraft in cruise phase to Mars aren't fighters in combat. The requirements and responses times and types are radically different.
 
I give and grant that pilots have faster reflexes - in the small hand and arm movements need to actuate a set of controls their hands are already on... and that's important during ascent and entry. (Especially back in the day of unreliable or non-existent automated controls.) But 99.99% of a spaceflight you aren't in ascent or entry with your hands on a joystick. Nor, for 99.99% of the emergencies you'll encounter in cruise phase, do you need those millisecond reflexes. (Because either you have to move your arm a considerable distance, or because you have to physically move some distance to deal with the casualty, or both.)
 
The 'astronauts must be pilots' meme was set back in the days of Mercury - when astronauts were thought to require thorough medical histories, required high security clearances (since they were dealing with ICBM's), and actually flew their spacecraft for 90% of the mission. Pretty much none of that remains true.
 
The 'astronauts must have near superhuman reflexes and speed' meme was set at the same time and under the same situation. And again, that situation has changed. We aren't flying spacecraft that a tiny leak could kill in a minute or where loss of life support could kill in five minutes anymore. The larger your craft, the slower your required response times can be.
 
Look how many Shuttle astronauts aren't pilots, and consider that the first American commander of the ISS was a Navy Seal with no flight training at all.

Preferably having actually experienced such situations. I think having experienced such situations and having dealt with them is what is the more important characteristic of test and combat pilots, not necessarily their piloting skills.

Submariners have experienced and dealt with such situations too. I've been through fires, flooding, suspected toxic gas releases and other atmosphere contamination events, loss of power, loss of hydraulics, loss of key computers, etc... etc... And that just the real deals, I'm not even counting the hours and hours of drills and simulations. And the guys who actually dove and drove the boat, or sat the reactor and propulsion consoles have even more appropriate experience.

Re:Its not the piloting skills ...

[perpenso]

Sorry, I guess I still did not explain things very well. When I referred to the "more important characteristic" as having experience in risky activities where thing go bad rather quickly and need to be resolved very very quickly I did not mean to imply that pilots are the only source of such experience. Pilots are just an example building off of the background of the original generation of astronauts.

A mars mission is not going to be a short trip. The crew is going to need a wide variety of skills. A pilot will be necessary, so will an engineer/mechanic. Such a person may very well come the submarine community, there might even be some similar equipment. A year and a half mission, perhaps a doctor would be useful, maybe a battlefield surgeon from the Army or Navy. Biologist, maybe someone who worked in a stressful and technical environment at the CDC where lethal organism were handled. Geologist, maybe the guy who walks down to the lava to get a fresh sample. Again I am not offering an exclusive list of backgrounds, just examples.

FWIW. I have enjoyed seeing various aircraft at air shows and museums. I have also loved taking tours of the WW2 subs USS Ling and USS Bowfin. The engineering was amazing. I loved the practicality of when there was a vertical gap between some large machinery a drill press was installed and where there was a horizontal gap a lathe was installed, metal stored under the deck for the manufacture of part at sea, ...

Re:Its not the piloting skills ...

[whereiswaldo]

Combat pilots probably have a lot better spatial awareness than most people. I suspect that would be _very_ important in space, even when not flying a ship.

Re:Its not the piloting skills ...

[DerekLyons]

Combat pilots probably have a lot better spatial awareness than most people. I suspect that would be _very_ important in space, even when not flying a ship.

If you aren't flying the ship, then that spatial awareness is useless - because you can't use it avoid anything. Not that there's anything in space close enough and slow enough that manual reflexes are useful for that, other than the rare case of two spacecraft docking.

What about the food?

[shaitand]

Everyone mentions zero-g given human psychological nature I think a bigger issue is food. They clearly had fresh greens and 6 massive freezers and as much again in another room if you watched the video. They had bread, etc. They wouldn't have ANY of this in space.

Food has a major impact on our psyche and mental state and I'm not just talking about the nutritional value. They should have been required to drink packet sludge through tubes.

All-Male Cast?

[seven of five]

Was that deliberate or did the girls not make the cut?

Re:All-Male Cast?

[Daxx22]

Consequences of pregnancy. It is highly likely that any long term space mission would be single sex. A pregnant astronaut is just as much of an issue as a dead astronaut on a mission to Mars. Sure there are contraceptives/surgery, but life has found a way in past, and it simply wouldn't be worth the risk. In addition going beyond the phsyical having a mixed crew for such a long duration introduces even more potential psychological factors that can result in failure of the mission.

Re:All-Male Cast?

[GameboyRMH]

In addition going beyond the phsyical having a mixed crew for such a long duration introduces even more potential psychological factors that can result in failure of the mission.

You guessed right! A previous attempt was made with a woman on crew and...well the psychological factors caused a guy to snap.

We know that from history

[SuperKendall]

Through history, there were a LOT of voyages where the potential not to make it back was strong. We already know humans can handle that kind of thing.

What has not been done as much before is a very small group of people confined to a small space for a long time. Even on old sailing ships you could look at the sea. Submarines are not out at sea that long.

I personally would jump at a chance to go even if the chance of making it back was 0%. I'm sure there are many others like this...

Re:We know that from history

[Oswald McWeany]

I personally would jump at a chance to go even if the chance of making it back was 0%. I'm sure there are many others like this...

There probably are... ... but it is easier to think you'd be fine going when there is no chance- then when there is a chance.

I'm sure a lot of people would want to go- but if they were given the chance and had to wait a while before going- it would sink in with every pleasurable even on earth "I may never get to do this again".

I suspect a lot of people willing to go on such a mission would develop cold feet long before training for the mission would conclude if there were no chance of getting back.

- but still, I bet there would indeed be some willing to go... but few.

Re:We know that from history

[s_p_oneil]

IMO the most important study is the combination of the two.

Re:We know that from history

[Kjella]

What has not been done as much before is a very small group of people confined to a small space for a long time.

Valeri Polyakov, launched 8 January 1994 (Soyuz TM-18), stayed at Mir for 437.7 days

We've been very close before, and that in actual space with zero-G. Really, of all the things people are concerned about this isn't one of them. Or what about all the people that have been kept in cells for years that you hear about from time to time? They've been real captives, not volunteers and yet they survived. Mentally people will cope with a lot worse. Pick the kind of people that could go half a year on an Antarctic research station and I'm sure they'll handle a year in a half in space.

Capricorn Two is a go...

[Sfing_ter]

Fake Mars mission and no one mentions Capricorn One???
I'm not sayin.. I'm just sayin...

The first Twilight Zone episode

[Quila]

"Where Is Everybody?"

The writers thought a solo person would go crazy in 484 hours, 36 minutes.

Disneyland

[naoursla]

They should turn this into a "Mission to Mars" ride at Disneyland.

Although the wait in line might take quite a long time.

Sponsored by JetBlue

[Anonymous Coward]

You thought 7 hours on a tarmac was impressive? This experiment shows the reach of JetBlue's visionary genius for passenger service!

the issue here aint Pussy,

[Spy Handler]

the issue here is Monkey." --astronaut Gus Grissom

So why should astronauts be pilots at all?

This question has been thoroughly discussed and answered in The Right Stuff. I recommend the movie over the book.... even though the book is much more informative and in-depth (obviously), the movie is more fun.

Re:the issue here aint Pussy,

[Thing 1]

even though the book is much more informative and in-depth (obviously), the movie is more fun.

Curl your toes.

What about the excitement?

[Anonymous Coward]

You'd also have to simulate the excitement of "We're fucking going to Mars." I think that anyone willing to fly 36 million miles in an aluminum can will be more focused on what could go right rather than what could go wrong.

OK, so...

[Tyrannicsupremacy]

Three Russians, a Frenchman, an Italian-Colombian and a Chinese man walk into a habitat module[MESSAGE INTERRUPT]; ... ... [MESSAGE RESUME];Rectum? I'd say we damn near KILLED 'im!"

prison

[Khashishi]

It sounds like you'd have to be pretty crazy at the start to volunteer for something like this. It sounds worse than prison. At least in prison you don't spend all of your time in a box. Perhaps, if they are short on volunteers, the organizers could work out a deal with the law to allow criminals to volunteer to serve time in this science experiment.

Women are for Mars

[Anonymous Coward]

The Associated press reported:

"The organizers said they had considered women for the experiment but left them out for various reasons. They denied deliberately forming an all-male crew because of the failure of a similar simulation in the past. A 1999-2000 experiment ended in acrimony after a Canadian woman complained of being forcibly kissed by a Russian team captain following a fistfight between two Russian crew members. Russian officials attributed the incidents to cultural gaps and stress."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hymQElbxula7uuQH83aQWywlO25A?docId=f22b39bbf8c2470ebb9cb927a96f1ac9

The all-male crew of this (simulated) attempt have suggested that women should be aboard.
The previous (simulated) attempt, with women aboard, had problems due to the men and their attitudes/values/yada yada

Solution inevitably follows, based on all this work thus far, that the Mission to Mars is carried out by an all-female crew.