Music Industry Pushing For BT To Block Pirate Bay

First time accepted submitter mariocki writes "British music industry body BPI has requested BT block access to Pirate Bay. In response, BT say they will only do so if they receive a court order. But after BT recently lost a court case forcing them to block Newzbin, it looks like it's a case of when — not if — this will happen."

Comments

In other news.

[Anonymous Coward]

Water is wet.

Alternate DNS/routing.

[GNULinuxGuy]

Methinks alternate DNS and routing methods are about to get a lot more popular in the UK.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well in my case I download TV shows from the US that are like 7 weeks behind the UK. What honestly is the difference between downloading and watching it on TV a few weeks later? If it's good anyway I'll buy the season boxset.

Anyway, DRM is a massive no-no. If I can't sample something I'm not going to buy the full thing, that ranges from Music to games to TV shows. And I ain't waiting 6 bloody weeks for the UK to catch up on a TV series, anyone understand me?

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[TAZ6416]

Apparently they'll be using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleanfeed_(content_blocking_system) so alternative DNS won't work.

However, using TOR, third party VPN or what I plan to do, use my phone's 3G tethering to get a torrent file then switch back to BT once I have it should all work fine I imagine.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[justforgetme]

It's still pilfering someone's hard work for free.

I was given to understand that Beyonce is one of the "girls (who run the world)" I wasn't informed that this meant coal mining to keep the record industry going.

No, honestly? Hard work? You really have no idea how media distribution works now, do you? The record companies have a 80% margin on their product 95% of that stays with the record company and only 5% goes to the signed artist (and that is when you stroke a good deal).
So, no. You are not stealing from the artist and since the artists is the only one that could be considered working (via a proxy producer/choreographer/prman usually) You are not stealing by copying that album of the Internet.

If you want to help an artist make money go support a band on kickstarter or buy off some indie band's web shop etc. Also, that's where You usually will get good bang for Your money (limited edition vinyl + flacc downloads, etc).

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[testostertwo]

Not even... See this.

http://revk.www.me.uk/2011/11/secret-to-accessing-newzbin2-from-bt.html

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

So, no. You are not stealing from the artist and since the artists is the only one that could be considered working (via a proxy producer/choreographer/prman usually)

The one who goes on stage and gets lots of money to sing a few tunes is the only one who works? What did you smoke? Seriously, the people who do the actual work in the music industry, namely the songwriters, various techies, etc. get shafted by "artists" with a sense of entitlement.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, honestly? Hard work? You really have no idea how media distribution works now, do you? The record companies have a 80% margin on their product 95% of that stays with the record company and only 5% goes to the signed artist (and that is when you stroke a good deal).

I have every understanding how media distribution works. I make my own mobile software.

What you don't seem to understand is that you disagreeing with their content / distribution model still doesn't make taking it for free right.

I mean, regardless of the fact that there are plenty of people involved besides the artist in the distribution chain as it exists today (and I'm not saying today's model is a good one), shouldn't it die naturally as people use competing models? Let the market decide and all that?

The problem we have right now is that the market isn't being allowed to decide.

For that, blame the old guy / nepotism inherent in the corporate model, along with a vastly under-informed populace who (surprise surprise) just blindly get sucked off by marketing.

The one thing I do agree with in your post is supporting artists and sites you appreciate. I purchase and get original WAVs of the songs I like from beatport. No DRM, best quality. That's my kind of model.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

What a moronic & nieve view.

So all the Operating systems that distribute their DVDs & CDs via P2P is all copyright infringement is it ?
All the content distributes via P2P without such copyright is still copyright infringement is it ?
I do not pay for my operating systems or software yet i am not stealing or infringing any Licenses ever heard of the GPL Licence ? BSD License ? Creative Commons License ? or any of the other permissive non closed licenses ? NO didnt think you had either.
All the musicians who distribute their tunes and mixes etc via soundcloud and thousands of other sites are all infringing are they ?

What a first class moron twat to have such a nieve close minded opinion.

or if your trolling i will consider myself trolled........

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Gaygirlie]

Yep, freetards gotta have their freebees.

And I'm not interested in the whole 'but p2p isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement'. WE KNOW. It's still pilfering someone's hard work for free. If you don't intend on paying for it, don't use it. It's quite simple.

But we've got a generation who expect something for nothing nowadays....

Bring on the DRM I say.

It's not about "freebees", tbh. It's about freedom to express oneself and liability. First of all, should an ISP be liable for stuff that people put on the Internet if the content is not hosted on the ISP's equipment simply because they are providing the means for people to access the Internet? To me it seems like saying that the city should be held accountable for e.g. bank robberies, simply because they are the ones providing the roads to the bank. Secondly, should large corporations be given the right to demand the blocking of one or another website? If it was a small company or an individual this wouldn't even be considered, the only reason this is considered is because the corporations in question have deep pockets. A 10-man sweatshop would in no way or form be able to do the same even if they actually did lose 95% of their income due to piracy, but a large corporation that is still raking on money like crazy and are likely losing something around 5 percent of possible income gets to tell ISPs what to block. Do we really want a future where large corporations are given ever more privileges compared to small ones?

I atleast don't feel comfortable with such disparity in privileges and I am still unsure of what I think about holding an ISP liable for things like this. It seems to me like a huge can of worms that will sooner or later majorly screw people over.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[hxnwix]

Yep, freetards gotta have their freebees.... Bring on the DRM I say.

How are those boots tasting? Lick harder, I want a good polish.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have an android phone, uTorrent remote is a good app. You can download torrent files, open them with remote and BAM, it's downloading on your PC :)

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

I just bought some music last week. It had no DRM whatsoever. I had already listened to the music dozens of times on Youtube. If I had checked on TPB, I'd probably have found it. The album artist asked customers to set their own price with no minimum, and I paid $10 for the album. That artist chose not to treat his paying customers as his enemies, and accordingly I joined them. Over the past year I spent some $300 on digital media, which is roughly what I can afford.

0.00 of those dollars went to cartels that view their customers as an enemy by pouring millions into developing technologies that hinder their legitimate and non-violating actions with music they paid for - millions that came out of these customers' own pockets, to further the irony.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Gaygirlie]

Apparently they'll be using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleanfeed_(content_blocking_system) so alternative DNS won't work.

Aye, that is an IP-address based filtering system combined with URL blacklist. Oh well, it's not like it's difficult to bypass anyways, but it will surely hinder the less-technical audience quite a lot. And that is the industry's whole point: they want the teenagers to stop downloading music and videos from PB, they don't really care about us geeks. Teenagers to something around 20 years old people are often impatient enough and feel strongly enough about things they like that they'll be much more likely to just run out and buy their fix if they can't get it online with minimal work, they won't bother researching for alternative methods.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Reading fail. Easy to miss though, you'd need to see past your red rage of "someone's criticising illegal downloading".

So congratulations, here's some fish. Go slap yourself around the head with it dickface.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no basis for property rights without intrinsic scarcity. It is wonderful that so many people can benefit from one person's music at no cost, not terrible. There is no reason why the commercial motivations of artists and entertainers, producers and marketers should be enhanced by coercive, artificial monopolies. It is a corruption of state power to do so. We don't need IP. We don't want IP. We think IP is theft. And we can do whatever the hell we want. Good luck trying to stop us. You'll need it.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[SuricouRaven]

Huh... only filters port 80? Which actually makes perfect sense - it means that BT have achieved the block by simply adding newsbin to the list of websites hosting child pornography, and so repurposed their existing child-porn filter CleanFeed. If they were doing it by a new IP block, they would have blocked all traffic to the IP rather than just port 80. Cleanfield works by redirecting only port 80 to a transparent proxy. Technically elegant - why set up a whole new filtering policy if you already have the infrastructure in place? - but in PR terms a little embarassing, as it serves to validate the claims by CleanFeed's critics that once a convenient censorship system is built, even for a purpose so widely supported as blocking child porn, it's all but inevitable that it will eventually be put to other uses that that for which it was intended.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bring on the DRM I say.

You should work for the RIAA if you aren't already doing so. You're just as clueless as they are.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Opportunist]

I think it's much more complicated than that. It's indeed a generation problem, but one that runs far deeper.

The core group of people who would be the customers and consumers of content have always been the group of the 14-35 year olds. And they are now the ones that could be considered the digital natives. People who had a computer their whole life and could not imagine a life without. And we're about to see the ones that aren't used to the internet as part of their life, the ones that didn't grow up in a world without it, leave that age bracket. It's not a change in behaviour, it's a change in the use of means. Because that whole copying problem has existed since the first person turned on the vinyl record and that 8track recorder at the same time, and the moment someone had two betamax video recorders and knew how to connect them. The difference is only in the technology, and the ease of use.

I'm not so convinced the generation internet is used to "something for nothing". That hasn't changed. Every 40 year old who never had a music cassette full of music copied from a record may throw the first stone. This generation has only much easier to use tools for the same thing their parents and maybe even grandparents did.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

So if "information wants to be free" how about this:

Everyone who downloads paid for content without paying for it posts their:

* Name
* Address
* What they're currently illegally downloading

O right, only some information wants to be free, right?

And as for this crock of shit:

It is wonderful that so many people can benefit from one person's music at no cost, not terrible.

Spoken like someone who has never created anything and had the hard work they put into it copied without their consent.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Sparx139]

Until, you know, a geek explains how to do it to their less technical friends, who then pass it on, and then the entire thing turns into a massive joke.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Gaygirlie]

Until, you know, a geek explains how to do it to their less technical friends, who then pass it on, and then the entire thing turns into a massive joke.

What do you mean, I thought it was already a massive joke. Atleast I am already laughing ;)

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[SharkLaser]

Oh my god, whole six weeks?? Your life must be horrible!

Seriously, I pirated them before because here they showed them two years later if at all. Six weeks is nothing.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Mr Thinly Sliced]

The difference is only in the technology, and the ease of use.

I'd personally go a little further - there is also the (perceived) anonymity and freely available nature of the required equipment.

* Everyone (more or less) has the necessary PC and internet connection nowadays - previously shelling out for the 8-track _and_ the record player was a larger barrier to entry and along with the required physical effort and time made the activity non-casual.

* Trading physical things vs the internet p2p model offers some perceived anonymity. It's not really the case (unless you are going the TOR or freenet route) of course. This does make people more comfortable / confident in using it.

I'm not saying it's right, just wanted to add to the reasons why this generation seem to be more invested in it than previous generations who seemingly had the same opportunities.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[cheekyjohnson]

Everyone who downloads paid for content without paying for it posts their:

If they want to post it, then they can. No one is going to stop them or force them to. But I don't see how information can "want" anything.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Joe Jay Bee]

No, BT's range of competing ISPs will get a lot more popular. Virtually everyone who can get BT can get one of those and be switched over to them in two weeks (just switched to O2 from BT, best move I ever made - BT are retards).

I'm no particular fan of TPB, I think they're a bunch of dicks, but for christ's sake blocking access is not the answer for the British record industry. Legal downloads, although markedly less profitable, are still something of a money-spinner for them, and given some of the shite that has reached No.1 recently they must be selling something...

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[arkhan_jg]

It was in fact the court that ordered BT to use the Cleanfeed filtering system to block the Newzbin2 domain, IP and any others they start using. This is partly because BT argued the cost of setting up and maintaining a new system to do all-port IP range blocking would be too expensive, and was an unwarranted expense to impose on them considering they're (BT) not actually doing anything illegal.

But you're entirely correct that this validates the concerns that any censorship system will eventually be expanded. Now the courts have decided Cleanfeed is suitable for trying to block sites accused of assisting copyright infringement - and will no doubt add the piratebay to the list, how long before they also agree to order BT to start blocking sites accused of promoting terrorism, racial hatred or even just accused of hosting libelous statements? UK courts have already shut down such sites that were UK hosted, now they've a mechanism for doing so for foreign hosted sites.

That it doesn't block ports outside of 80 - including https! - means it's an entirely worthless exercise for the technically savvy, but the same doesn't hold true once political blogs or forums that the less savvy might read start getting blocked.

(Note for the non-UK residents - BT internet are the biggest consumer ISP, with about 1/4 of all internet users in the UK. BT also runs the copper telephone line infrastructure, and has the vast majority of POTS customers. A number of other ISPs resell BT internet access, and some of them also subscribe to Cleanfeed, the child-porn filter. Virgin and TalkTalk, the next two biggest ISPs have also been involved in the court cases, but have not - yet - been ordered to block newzbin 2)

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a troll right? You must realise that tiscali and talktalk are one and the same? Just follow the links you provided and see for yourself.

As for switching from BT to O2 - you must also know that O2 is a re-branding of BT CellNet - the Mobile Division?

For most of the UK there's 3 choices, and they all suck. Sure we can stick to the small companies that use BT lines and avoid some problems, but not shit like this. If you live in some of the larger English cities there are real alternatives for Internet that have built their own networks - but if not then tough luck I suppose :(

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[vinehair]

However, supporting the record label by buying the discs will make it so much easier for the band to get the funding to go on tour. For the music genres filled with people with a genuine love for what they do and where performing to appreciative fans is the end game for getting into the business rather than money (most genres except the Pop Idol, celebrity obsessed half of the pop music section) this can be its own reward. You can also then further support them by going to see them live and possibly buying their band paraphernalia / crap. Not to mention that discs that sell well encourage the labels to give better contracts in the future. I'm sorry, but the only justification for pirating music is getting the material that is out of print and unobtainable. If you don't like supporting the record industry, don't give money to the bands that feel it's a worthwhile deal for them to use them to get their music heard and possibly go and play them live. There is in this day and age, after all, perfectly fine free music and it is totally possible to release music via the internet without the middle man. More power to them, but most of those bands aren't doing major tours - they probably don't want to do that, and that's just fine. You could possibly make an argument for downloading older albums that aren't going to influence the band's current day chances, but even if you're not really doing the same harm as you would by downloading a brand new album, you're still taking away the artists (small) share, the employees of the record label that do grunt work, the owners of the labels (who own the business and have a legitimate right to earn money from their business) and also from the stores that are selling the discs. It's not really justifiable in any way to say copying is right. The internet is a disruptive technology causing us to rethink the value of data, but until that is done and codified into our laws and culture properly, you should respect copyright. If you can't afford music, then you have other problems on your plate than feeling like you deserve to be entertained for free.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh my god, two years?? Your life must be horrible!

Seriously, I pirated them before because here they showed them four thousand years later if at all. Two years is nothing.

(Posting from mars as your point is stupid).

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[icebraining]

Nowadays you just need the Magnet link. Bookmark it, sync bookmarks with desktop/laptop, open them all.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[justforgetme]

Look we are basically on the same side here. Our difference in opinion bases on that I see natural evolution in the Internet changing how we perceive arts and such and You apparently would like the new distibution model be a much more precise and well defined platform. There is not telling which is the correct position and which is not. Therefore joining into heated debates about what is the right thing might be counter productive.

Truly you cannot judge a theory only by its theoretical assumptions, you have to put it to the test.
I pirate a lot of stuff. I also pay a monthly subscription to somafm.com, because I like the service they provide. I also support many smaller bands that I have come to know through that subscription having bought LPs digital releases and coffemugs from lots and lots of indies. I pledge to kickstarter and have so become a part of the reason why a lot of interesting projects have utilized.
Is it wrong for me to download all those blockbusters from isohunt? Maybe. The fact is that, had I to pay for them, I would have bought a new dvd set of ST:TNG because the one I own is starting to fade (bits rot apparently).

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[justforgetme]

You didn't read the sentence you quoted I assume. No problem, luckily for you I won't blame you for that Failure and since You are Anonymous and a coward the community will spare you the shame as well.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

This makes zero sense.

It's so easy for consumers and site owners to use alternate addressing. Wasn't this explained to the judge? If the internet is like water flowing down a hill, putting a rock in the way won't do anything except reroute traffic in the same way that water will flow around the rock. If you build a dam, sure, you'l change things but building huge dams just to protect an outdated business model makes no economic sense; and it doesn't solve the fundamental problem that people still can still move data around on either side of the 'dam.'

This is solving the wrong problem.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, freetards gotta have their freebees.

Trolls gotta troll, I see. (I'm giving you the benefit of a doubt here. You could simply be a moron and/or an idiot. It's hard to tell.)

And I'm not interested in the whole 'but p2p isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement'. WE KNOW.

Good. Took you some time to get it, but any progress is good.

It's still pilfering someone's hard work for free.

No, it isn't. Prove that any damage is done to the actual artist, or realize that you have no case and no support for your point of view.

If you don't intend on paying for it, don't use it. It's quite simple.

Pay for what, exactly? A copy costing nothing to produce? An unnecessary middleman stealing (yes, stealing for real this time) money from the actual artist for no good reason? I download lots of stuff. I end up paying for most of it, since I happen to like it. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if I pay way more for what I first download than you pay in total, when it comes to digitally available entertainment.

The one not supporting artists is most likely you, not me, despite me being the one who download the most.

Bring on the DRM I say.

Why? DRM has never worked, doesn't work, and will never work. It cannot work. Learn about the subject and even you might come to understand why this is the case.

In fact, the only really measurable effect of DRM is as a cost, a cost leeching even more money away from the actual artists into the pockets of unnecessary middlemen.

In short: Go fuck yourself, and leave us actual fans alone, so that we can funnel money to the artists we love in order for them to make a living.

You and the likes of you aren't helping anyone but yourselves. You are nothing but leeches.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[AngryDeuce]

Oh my god, four thousand years?? Your life must be horrible!

Seriously, I pirated them before because here they never showed them at all because it would take an infinite amount of time for them to reach us. Four thousand years is nothing.

(Posting from the event horizon of a black hole)

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[hxnwix]

Haha, what's that? Couldn't hear you over the sound of my money accruing. By the way, you missed a spot.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Opportunist]

That wasn't so different back in the good ol' days. You'd swap records and CDs with your friends. Granted, no anonymity, but also nobody who'd care to tell on you. Also, the technology investment wasn't there. Either you had a stereo kit that included a record player and a tape station or at least one of your friends did who would let you use it. Top price, a copy of the record for him.

The main difference actually is speed of propagation and ease of access. It's today way easier to access any kind of music you might want, you're not dependent on one of your friends first getting the record or the radio playing the song. You also don't have to sit next to the radio and wait for the song to finally get played. It has simply become easier to get what you want.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[AngryDeuce]

No, those teenagers will just go to the guy they know to download the shit for them, and sneakernet will reemerge as the most common method of distribution once again.

I made a fair amount of money in the early days of Napster making people mix discs, and the more they clamp down, the more valuable my abilities to find almost anything online become.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

For most of the UK there's 3 choices, and they all suck. Sure we can stick to the small companies that use BT lines and avoid some problems, but not shit like this. If you live in some of the larger English cities there are real alternatives for Internet that have built their own networks - but if not then tough luck I suppose :(

Theres a good dozen medium sized ISPs who provide excellent service and have same/similar coverage.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

As for switching from BT to O2 - you must also know that O2 is a re-branding of BT CellNet - the Mobile Division?

You must also know that BT sold CellNet to Telefónica years ago, or are you just a troll?

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, who said anything about copyright infringement? I download tonnes of stuff from TPB legally.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Oxford_Comma_Lover]

Actually, there are several bases for property rights. The classic Lockean property rights were based on the idea of having earned the right to possess the fruits of your labor. That is not a market-based theory, but it certainly has a lot of popular appeal.

First possession is another. Accretion is another. Laws defaulting property rights to the state which lowers transaction costs is another (and is the most efficient--suggesting we should have open sharing and some kind of society-based remuneration for artists based on the number of downloads they receive, since that would eliminate all the transaction costs we spend on DRM and copyright enforcement, not to mention the transaction costs associated with having a situation where "to a first approximation, every computer user is a felon.").

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Garybaldy]

This, As a concert rigger i could not agree more.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you spell "fair use", fuckface? I live in the United States, I'm not a subject of any queen or king, and I answer to no despot. If I hear it, if I can record it, it's mine. I heard it on the intartubez, I recorded it, it's mine.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[s0litaire]

well he did actually!
he said the Music Industry does not need to come back for a court order to block any new "Newzbin2" sites.
quote from http://torrentfreak.com/uk-isp-bt-given-14-days-to-block-newzbin2-111026/
"
According to the Judge, the MPA and BT were in conflict over the extent of this flexibility.

The MPA preferred the block to encompass “any other IP address or URL whose sole or predominant purpose is to enable or facilitate access to the Newzbin [2] website,” but BT wanted “and any other website whose sole purpose is to provide access to the Newzbin [2] website.”

The Judge agreed with the MPA and noted that the studios should not have to “return to court for an order in respect of every single IP address or URL that the operators of Newzbin2 may use.”
"

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, freetards gotta have their freebees.

And I'm not interested in the whole 'but p2p isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement'. WE KNOW. It's still pilfering someone's hard work for free. If you don't intend on paying for it, don't use it. It's quite simple.

But we've got a generation who expect something for nothing nowadays....

We've also got a generation that still doesn't recognize the digital revolution fundamentally changed the concepts of copyright and patents and confuses interests with rights.

Currently, major stake holders are fiercefully protecting their interests, influencing politics and cornering civil rights. Bla, bla bla, rant rant, anyways perhaps we should take a careful look about RIGHTS again, responsibility, plights but noone seems to have the guts to leave their interests.

Anyway, the experienced pilferers are pretty much the big companies paying
In short, I buy from locals and salespeople that are actually the coders -- sometimes download from PeeBro; the big companies may go fuck themselves, for free.

As for PB, the rights belong to the seeders.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[flyneye]

In the beginning two computers were created to be networked. Information flowed freely and Admin looked on the face of the terminal and saw it was good.

          I think you fail to see this from a meta-perspective.(above notwithstanding, but fun anyway)
The music industry like any industry can be thought of as a living breathing beast.Previous to the industry, musicians in all walks made what living was available for their craft in spite of circumstances or locale, through performance and further performance of commissioned works. Paid! Right there on the spot,Jack.
This was a different animal but after the environmental change of a world now inhabited by moveable type commissioned works and art alike could be preserved and spread. The musician beast was bred to the print industry and the new beast Musicindustriae Cancersaurus Rex walked the earth, they took a form of a predatory parasite that once attached to a musician it would spread to others in its heard.It's hunting pattern evolved over time to todays deadly parasite that totally controls,milks, steals the works of and eventually leaves musicians destitute unable to contract or perform or even kills its prey outright. Once we recognize this parasite for what it is , we will have no problem with it's eventual inevitable decline into the cancer it misbred. Musicians will once again be free to thrive and make a living in the modern age on a level playing field. Then we can look forward to them moving off our basement couch and into their own apartment. .

          Most people suffer from the delusion that Musicians make music. I put it to you and experts agree,Music exists independent of musicians .Musicians are merely a conduit music( a mathematical system of modes arranged harmoniously by the choices of a musician and embellished melodically for expression) passes through. Music is independent , infinite in quantity and therefore a resource available to all on the planet as air. Sans an industry for a false sense of distribution in this day when information moves instantaniously, The musician can once again control their own destiny as it can now achieve everything on its own that a parasitic industry previously addicted it to. Performance is paid, Music,save for commissioned command is FREE AS AIR, Lives only in air, oddly enough because we all know that "In space , no one can hear you fart. Space/Vacuum ,get it...guess not, you sound pretty uptight anyway. In short, Let the industry die a natural death to it's newly evolved predator, the network and the world will once again be a better place for all, Except of course for Music industry flunkys who can always go find work picking fruit in Arizona and Alabama now that those jobs are being vacated in droves. It works out, oddly and yet beautifully for everyone. Give in and quit fighting nature, it's a losing battle.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[tqk]

Yep, freetards gotta have their freebees.

And I'm not interested in the whole 'but p2p isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement'. WE KNOW. It's still pilfering someone's hard work for free. If you don't intend on paying for it, don't use it. It's quite simple.

But we've got a generation who expect something for nothing nowadays....

Bring on the DRM I say.

Excellent one dimensional thinking, citizen!

I love watching this game. It's funny as hell seeing the IP crowd spin their wheels so fast that they dig themselves into a hole they'll never climb out of. The sooner they go out of business, the sooner the rest of us will get some peace and quiet, and can get on with our lives without all that annoying screeching in the background.

When my friend in some other part of the world buys a DVD to send to me for a present, and that DVD won't play in my equipment, they've just encouraged me to go out of my way to find a fix for their DRM, and I have.

Go right ahead and buy all the politicians you want, write all the stupid laws you want, waste your shareholders' dividends on all the toothless enforcement you please. None of it will make me play this game by your rules.

I advocate boycotting the *AAs, but DRM affects me anyway. The *AAs' sense of entitlement has forced me to find ways to get around their breakage, and I vehemently resent their interference.

You underestimate the power of spite.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[NoSleepDemon]

Your method of communication; I want it.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[advocate_one]

and because of Cleanfeed, the content locker service Oron is useless to UK residents because Oron thinks all requests are coming from one IP and therefore, every month, that proxy IP hits its maximum download limit in a matter of minutes and is useless for the remainder of the month...

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[dissy]

If you don't intend on paying for it, don't use it. It's quite simple.

So you admit you are OK with people pirating when they DO intend to purchase?
That right there is enough people to still justify the pirate bay existing!
(A fraction of billions of people is definitely "justification", and you can't argue out of that one)

After getting burned by crappy software companies twice now, I refuse to purchase any application that has a very significant chance of not working nor even being an application.

If software companies didn't violate that trust so often and frequently, this might not be a problem.
If they offered refunds when their software does not work at all, or doesn't at all match the description it is sold as, then this might not be a problem.
If the companies didn't push lawsuits to have negative reviews taken down, this might not be a problem.

As the world stands now however, I refuse to pay for anything I can't try first.
(Insert that made up Bush "fool me twice never fool me again" quote)

Pirating is the only reason I spend money on software.
If it's not out there, I skip your option and you get zero dollars automatically.

Of the last 10 iApps I've pirated, 8 have been purchased from the app store, and the other 2 were deleted within the first ten minutes of using them.
This has been my pattern for years now.
You either deal with me pirating your app for 24 hours, or the software is NOT AN OPTION.

That means 8 app developers got paid when before they wouldn't have.

If we followed your way, zero of those ten apps would have been purchased.
Or if I was a fool, 8 would be purchased, and 2 would be under dispute with my credit card company, causing me stress wanting to burn down their office building :P

Personally I would rather see 8 of 10 people paid using my way, instead of no one paid and many innocents harmed in a fiery blaze using your way.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[ifiwereasculptor]

Oh my god, four thousand years?? Your life must be horrible!

Seriously, I pirated them before because here they never showed them at all because it would take an infinite amount of time for them to reach us. Four thousand years is nothing.

(Posting from the event horizon of a black hole)

Hey, me too. Aren't you just disgusted at the current Ansible rates? I can only download 10Gb before they downgrade me to slower-than-light. I'd say this is worse for piracy than any of those judicial measures.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[dissy]

I don't know anything about Cleanfeed, but if what you say is accurate then this is a blessing in a way.

Being a web blocker Only, we can assume it only blocks certain ports.
80 and 443 for sure. Maybe 8080 any some such non-standard ports?

All the pirate bay needs to do is change their SSL server from port 443 to operate on both 443 and 10000 and 12345 etc.

Then we can keep clickable links such a:s https://thepiratebay.com:10000/

With a pre-proxy on the pirate bays end, they could even make ALL ports from 1024 to 65535 redirect to their internal SSL port.
And an optional second IP where all ports 1024 to 65535 redirect to their internal port 80.
(Ok, more likely the SSL one will be the optional, but we can hope)

Imagine using almost any randomish number and have links like:
http://thepiratebay.com:12345/
https://ssl.thepiratebay.com:23456/

I'm not all that sure a pre-proxy server even needs purchased. Isn't this something perl or the like can do with a config file?
A standard firewall could likely handle redirecting all ports over 1024 on external IP to port 80 on internal. Not so sure how SSL would like that though.

That would easily nullify Cleanfeed at least.
Would prompt another round of court cases, you know the judge will see only the end result and thus what his decision will be.
This will likely end up with the courts demanding BT use another filtering method, perhaps demanding it is at their own expense.

I don't think the pirate bay should concern itself with the (re)actions of others, even if those actions are against innocent 3rd parties.
The fault lies with the judges and whoever is paying them, not the pirate bay.

If they do decide to implement something like this, it will only buy a few months until the new filtering method is court ordered.
They will need to start thinking about the next counter-attack almost immediately after nullifying Cleanfeed.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[wagnerrp]

Back in the early days of Napster, CD burners and blank media were expensive. Between that and a jewel case, you had to be charging a couple bucks just to break even. They could have gone to the record store and picked through the used bin for just as much.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[wagnerrp]

You're saying all traffic from the entirety of the United Kingdom appears to the rest of the world as coming through one single IP?

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[wagnerrp]

Nevermind. You're saying everyone is bypassing the Cleanfeed system using a handful of proxies, so those proxies get overloaded and shut out in a matter of minutes.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[wagnerrp]

I was under the impression concert workers were employed by the band directly, or by a third organization putting on the concert, and had no obligation to the record companies.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[wagnerrp]

Writing music, performing it, recording it, and mastering it all takes time, effort, and skill. Since the product can be duplicated indefinitely with minimal cost, each unit trends toward zero value as the number of units approaches infinity. Congratulations, you just used a small bit of your high school education, applying calculus improperly to the real world.

You are missing the fact that the initial investment in the production of that data was not zero. Those involved in its creation need to be paid for their efforts, so they can buy food and clothing and shelter, and continue to survive to put forth effort into creation of new data. If they don't get paid, then they are going to expend their efforts elsewhere in some activity with real gain. That means, if you don't pay for music, then there will be no more music for you to not pay for.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Garybaldy]

Short answer, yes. Long answer, would be a long answer but would still be a yes. Very few poeple on a tour can say they get paid directly from the band or label.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[wagnerrp]

The digital revolution changed nothing with regards to copyrights. What it allowed was making it cheap and easy for consumers to do what they want with their own property, rather than being restricted to only doing what the copyright owners want. When the consumers can continually migrate their content from one medium to the next, there is no need to repeatedly purchase it, and copyright owners no longer have that continued revenue stream, making copyrights less relevant in the long term. It has brought copyrights back in line with their original intent, rather than this perpetual farce Disney pushes legislation for every couple decades.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Everytime a moron like you is introduced to logic, and the inability of comprehending it causes your brain to explode, I laugh.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[AngryDeuce]

Yes, because one could go buy mix discs filled with different songs by artists across multiple record labels that are personally tailored to the listener in any record store...

Just as today, the vast majority of people back then wanted to listen to specific songs by specific artists without having to skip through their entire catalog. This was particularly lucrative for me as portable MP3 players were barely coming to market and generally sucked ass, meaning that they were going to be listening to CDs on their Discman or car stereo, and like you said, CD burners were expensive and hardly anyone had them.

I was in school at the time, so I had no shortage of people asking me for stuff, believe me. Once word got out that I could make CDs for people, I was making stuff for students, teachers, and parents alike. Nobody even cared, because the technology was so new nobody even understood what the legality of the whole situation was, not until the labels started going apeshit, and by the point Napster started filtering stuff by name and the results got more and more obfuscated (when people started uploading stuff like 'Metttaallllliccaaaa' to get around the filters), I pretty much quit doing it for other people because the amount of time it took to verify each track to make sure it wasn't BS or recorded off the radio made it take a lot longer than it used to (like when Madonna uploaded what looked like the tracks of her newest album but was actually rants about people stealing her music labeled as such and the millions of tracks that were missing the beginning) .

Anyway, it paid for my school clothes, which is all that mattered to me...when DVD burners came around I did the same thing but by that point I just didn't have the time for it so I focused on my own collection and close family and usually did it gratis...

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[kesuki]

consider for a moment. in the 'wheel of time' series there are ter angrel that have rules of use. ergo no musical devices. to understand such a rule, one who knows how can easily play music and tell stories and gain great wealth easily... well, in the actual story it wasn't so easy and the life of a wondering bard wouldn't attract many, yet why have such a rule? the time these devices were created in there were great cities and likely for that reason musical instruments were barred. because they would allow easy creation of wealth so to stem the tide they made rules whereby the money was useless anywhere else. they also had traveling devices in the world, and it was clear that people knew little about things once taken granted.

it is interesting to me, but with all the talk of botnets and viruses and hacking and programming... and all the references to old school sci fi movies/shows... the very path of my life seems to clear up so much of the confusion and awkwardness in my own storyline... well free or not everything has a cost. there is no getting around it, for you to sit there and watch a screen had some cost to society, weather it was real, imagined, or other.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

In the Lockean system, the only reason you get to establish property rights is because you mixed something you do own - your labor - with something *scarce*. If that scarce thing is now taken from you then your labor is taken with it. This has nothing to do with preserving the market value of your labor, but only with preserving the availability of your past labor to *you*. You can keep listening to your song. That's all you are owed.

There is no need for copyright for artists to make money and to choose to create works. They still have patronage, live performance, endorsement, official products and other ways of making a living. And even if no one could make a living by creating musical works... we'd still be surrounded by high-quality music of all kinds. Because they would create it anyway.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Right. Because since love isn't profitable, no one falls in love. And because having kids isn't profitable, the human race is extinct. And because all hobbies are only time and money sinks, nobody has any of those. I don't think you understand artists.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Every time one of you freetards gets caught and stiffed for life I laugh.

You missed the part where I spend more money on entertainment than you, thus being less of a freetard than you. Thank you for proving my point that you are, in fact, one of the real leeches, while I actually support the artists I love.

Enjoy opening your snail mail every day praying it isn't that inevitable court summons.

Not everyone is as clueless as you.

Twat.

Tsk, tsk, I thought you could do better than that.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Macgrrl]

Most of our friends take portable hard drives with them when visiting now to swap media of interest.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Joe Jay Bee]

Both wrong, sadly - BT floated BT Cellnet as mmO2 (t/as O2) back in 2002 or so, making them totally independent - then they were bought by Telefonica.

The present day O2 has nothing to do with BT, other than using their physical infrastructure for "last mile" connectivity.

File trading is the radio of the 21st century

[kawabago]

Radio was the vehicle for consumers to find new music in the last century. No one listens to radio anymore, except in the car and then not so much. File trading is the way listeners find new music this century. If they succeed in stopping file trading in Britain, the British music industry will collapse, no one will be able to find new music so they'll stop buying.

Re:File trading is the radio of the 21st century

[justforgetme]

You really forget one very important fact:

The Music Industry doesn't want you discovering new music! They are afraid that, in doing so, you might actually find the good stuff and stop buying Britney Spears.

Now it's the pirate bay, tomorrow they will want to shut down all the indie bands!

Re:File trading is the radio of the 21st century

[Opportunist]

The core difference is that the radio was a sales vehicle. Payola still exists, just much better veiled. That doesn't work that well with the internet, since you, and not the radio station, decide what you listen to.

And that's something the studios are really afraid of. Since their only reason to exist anymore, in a world where publishing yourself has become trivial at worst, is that they control the means to get your music heard by the masses. YouTube stars and phenomenons are rare, and they are usually quickly scooped up by the music industry before they might become a problem and show people that they could find and get good music without relying on their "information".

Re:File trading is the radio of the 21st century

[Anonymous Coward]

This (and the other two replies) really nail it.

Re:File trading is the radio of the 21st century

[Anonymous Coward]

Bull. The music industry doesn't care what you buy as long as you buy it from them. Also, Britney Spears sells (or rather sold) because people liked it.

Re:File trading is the radio of the 21st century

[AngryDeuce]

Exactly, they just want you buying the same album over and over again. I bought Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon on vinyl back in the 80's, on cassette twice (car ate the first one), and on CD three times (the regular CD released way back when I got my first CD player, a remastered one at some point in the late 90's, and a 5.1 SACD of it).

I'm not buying it again, I absolutely refuse. Any new releases of this damn album come out, I'm downloading them with a clean conscience. They've already gotten over $150 out of me on a single album that was released 40 years ago, and that's just one example, there are many others in my collection that I bought multiple times, Ozzy-era Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, The Doors, The Who....

Add all the movies I've had to buy multiple times (VHS, replacement VHS, DVD, Bluray...) and it's hard for me to feel bad downloading stuff like Star Wars when I've already paid for it three times over by now...

Re:File trading is the radio of the 21st century

[Hentes]

Exactly, they have bought off radios to play the same 10 songs all the time, but they can't do this with file sharing.

Buy the department of justice

[symbolset]

Have they considered buying the UK equivalent of department of justice, like RIAA did in the US? That's a well-proven method of greasing the wheels to get what you want, and quite cost-effective. A few millions in political contributions lead to billions in profits.

Re:Buy the department of justice

[pigpilot]

Not a good idea in the UK.

The UK is far behind the USA when it comes to political corruption and accepting corporate control of our courts and politicians.

Our equivalent of the US Department of Justice is staffed by largely independent career civil servants who will happily leak attempts to buy policy. They stay when the actual politicians come and go and are resistant to political interference with their day to day work.

We have the equivalent of rabid ferrets for a national press who love nothing more than ripping apart politicians for the sake of a headline and regularly set the politicians up. The tabloids tend to tear into anyone with fame or political/economic power and once they draw blood the BBC and other broadcast media will finish off the 'victim'.

We also have a judiciary that regularly gives the government the finger by managing to interpret new laws in ways the politicians never expected.

Corporations that try to buy legislation/political power have sometimes gotten away with having an influence, but more often than not end up getting their balls handed back to them on a platter.

As a UK citizen I'd love it if the music industry tried the crude methods they use in the USA as the backlash against them would be entertaining.

In the long run only change in the USA can stop the cancer of the American media industry trying to remake the rest of the world in it's own image.

Re:Buy the department of justice

[interval1066]

So we can assume BT will end up NOT blocking TPB because of your incorruptible legislature. Well thank goodness for that. Lemme just google uk political corruption here... wait-a-minute...!!?!?

Re:Buy the department of justice

[ka9dgx]

The real question would be then, does the City of London want it, or not?

Re:Buy the department of justice

[symbolset]

It's not about whether or not your politicians are crooked. It's about finding their preferred flavor of cookie.

Re:Buy the department of justice

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you don't understand. UK politicians are crooked. But they aren't the ones who actually do the work. Good luck finding the right person to bribe - by the time you do, your reputation and career will be in ruins from all the times you got it wrong.

Re:Buy the department of justice

[The Askylist]

The UK is far behind the USA when it comes to political corruption and accepting corporate control of our courts and politicians.

Mandelson. Triesman. Blair.

Need I go on?

OK, so none of them are in charge at the moment, but it was Mandelson who forced through the legislation which lies behind this prior to the last election.

The courts are different - but they are hamstrung by badly thought out and poorly drafted laws, mostly dating from the 13 years of Socialist utopia we are slowly escaping from.

Re:Buy the department of justice

[MrZilla]

You don't have to be corrupt to be swayed by someones arguments...

Re:Buy the department of justice

[Insipid Trunculance]

It used to be Rupert Murdoch ; not sure who/what it is these days.

Re:Buy the department of justice

[Froggels]

It's not about whether or not your politicians are crooked. It's about finding their preferred flavor of cookie.

Don't you mean flavour of biscuit?

Re:Buy the department of justice

[Zontar_Thing_From_Ve]

It's always fun on Slashdot to trash the USA. Yet here in the USA we have this pesky thing in our constitution called free speech. Funny how the USA always gets the criticism yet consider
1) In the USA you cannot get sent to jail for expressing hateful speech such as denying the holocaust.
2) In the USA you cannot get sent to jail for making racist statements.
3) In the USA I am not aware of ANY websites that are blocked by a court or government order. Even the RIAA and MPAA have not been able to accomplish that one.
I'm sorry that the UK and other European governments have decided to implement thought police, but as an American there's not really anything I can do about it.

Re:Buy the department of justice

[bbecker23]

3) In the USA I am not aware of ANY websites that are blocked by a court or government order. Even the RIAA and MPAA have not been able to accomplish that one. I'm sorry that the UK and other European governments have decided to implement thought police, but as an American there's not really anything I can do about it.

Sorry I had to be the one to ruin that rose-colored worldview of yours, but we (the USA) don't even screw around with the blocking part; we seize the domain and pretend the site never existed. It's kind of a big deal.

Re:Buy the department of justice

[Anonymous Coward]

"Have they considered buying the UK equivalent of department of justice"

You mean, The Department of Knee-jerk Incarcerations?

Re:Buy the department of justice

[Teun]

3) The USA has confiscated several websites even outside of their proper jurisdiction.

And it was done without court orders.

Re:Buy the department of justice

[symbolset]

Localization is left to the reader.

BT will resist

[Anonymous Coward]

BT have already made clear by fighting the original Newzbin case, and in subsequent statements, that every single block needs to go through the judicial process. BT and the BPI ren't exactly friends so I expect BT to make this as difficult as possible. There will be no quick "favours".

I don't think BT are really trying all that hard to block Newzbin. Reports suggest that simply using the IP rather than the DNS name are enough to get around the "block"...

Not exactly a race...

[toriver]

If it takes several months to get a court order to block a site, and only a couple of days to set up a new torrent tracker (piratebay is just the best known out of a dozen or so), it's not hard to see it's a lost cause for the industries, which instead should focus on finding ways of making it easier to pay for content. But what they are doing is trying to cling to their outdated business models of artificial scarcity and market segregation.

Re:Not exactly a race...

[SuricouRaven]

I think the idea is to make piracy sufficiently inconvenient and risky that most pirates just give up. As an approach, it could actually work - it'll never stop the core pirates who have been in it since the days of trading casettes and floppies, but it'll complicate things enough to drive away the casual pirates. Then just throw in a few high-profile prosecutions or expensive settlements of individual common p2p users to scare the rest off.

Re:Not exactly a race...

[Sqr(twg)]

As a casual pirate, forcing me to type "pirate bay replacement" into Google is not enough of an inconvenience. The only thing that would stop me from using bittorrent is if American TV series episodes could be legally downloaded in Europe on the same day as they air in the US. I don't mind paying, but having to wait a year is not an option.

With music it's not a year, but it can be a few weeks from a song starts playing on the radio until I can have a legally purchased copy.

What the entertainment industry needs to do is work together to make sure that there's an easy way for me to buy everything I want legally and immediately (and DRM free, of course). Then I might not bother to install a bittorrent client in the first place.

Re:Not exactly a race...

[Anonymous Coward]

With music it's not a year, but it can be a few weeks from a song starts playing on the radio until I can have a legally purchased copy.

I imagine this is done everywhere, not just to spite the lowly Europeons. It's called "priming the pump": Getting consumers ready to buy the album by playing songs from it before it is even available. You can also think of it as building a hype. Getting stuff talked about. The act of buying a song is a climax so to speak, the end of the story for the music industry, the money shot. Once you've bought a song, they can only sell you other songs. This one is done, over, finished. The desire you feel before you can buy a song is part of what creates the high of buying. In a way it's part of the product, and it's ruined if you can just download anything you want whenever you want it without having to wait. Entertainment is about creating desires as much as it is about fulfilling them. The song itself is not the product.

Re:Not exactly a race...

[Anonymous Coward]

No matter how the industry changed, people still need to buy a

mp3 player

What is BT? What is BPI?

[funfail]

Not everybody lives in the UK. What is BT?

You may write the abstract like this as well:

"British MI body BPI has requested BT block access to PB. In response, BT say they will only do so if they receive a CO. But after BT recently lost a CC forcing them to block NB, it looks like it's a CoW — not if — this will happen."

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[Anonymous Coward]

In the UK, we get baffled by acronyms you colonials use without explanation too. Fortunately, Google is quite good at helping in these situations.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[mirix]

The oldest telecom in the world, with 100k employees in its current state, traded on both LSE and NYSE under the name 'BT'. Part of the FTSE index.

It used to be part of the post office. It was owned by the crown until fucking thatcher came along.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[SuricouRaven]

BT is a major UK ISP. One of the oldest, and, possibly the largest. If not, it's certainly in the top three.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[jonbryce]

BT - A telecoms company formerly known as British Telecom. It is the largest and the incumbent operator similar to AT&T and the Baby Bells in the USA.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[Anonymous Coward]

Its a predominately American site.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[Patch86]

BT is a very large ISP and phone company; the former state monopoly one. BT is their name- they used to be called "British Telecom", but they aren't any more- they're just called "BT". In the same way as "AT&T" is their name- nobody translates it to "American Telephone & Telegraph" any more.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Its a predominately American site."

Yes, we knew that from the typos.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[m50d]

It used to be part of the post office. It was owned by the crown until fucking thatcher came along.

Yeah, and you'd wait a month to get a new phone line put in. I'm no fan of what privatization has done to e.g. the railways, but BT is one case where it actually worked.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[funfail]

What is a colonial? :)

Actually, I am from a European country where obscure acronyms are not used without explanation.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[Anonymous Coward]

At least over here the major difference was that before that you could demand that you had a phone line pretty much no matter where you lived and it cost about £50 to get it installed, now it costs £1000 and that is if you already live near an existing line. There was an old lady on the news yesterday, her safety alarm would not work any more because the telephone station in their are were being dismantled.

Yay privatization!

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[The Askylist]

Don't forget having to rent all your equipment from the GPO too, and it being illegal to connect non-approved kit...

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[mirix]

AT&T had the same deal, and it was private, although regulated. I guess it's probably more related to stodgy old ways than anything else.

Hence acoustically coupled modems, and that sort of fun.

The nice part about leasing the phones was they were domestic made, brick shithouses, not like today's basic phone. They also double as an excellent bludgeoning tool. Designed specifically to reduce service calls, I guess.

In my region, we have a state owned POTS/mobile/internet carrier, they seem to compete well, and let you have a modem hooked to the line. So it isn't impossible. I suppose modernization might have sped up with competing carriers, though (although that is unrelated to privatisation). It's sort of like anything though, powers that be have run phones like this since forever, those sorts of mindsets take a while to come around. Letting consumers push data over the lines wasn't their sort of mandate.

Now, did they actually fear third party equipment would damage the lines? I mean that was the reasoning, but did they have faith in it? Maybe helpdesk didn't want to have to support 100000 models, who knows :p

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[Anonymous Coward]

Talking shit again? BT was still 51% owned by the govt after going public.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Its a predominately American site."

Yes, we knew that from the typos.

Sad but true. Americans can't spell.

That's one of the reasons I dropped out of school, actually. I was able to perform algebraic calculations faster and more accurately in my head than the teacher could on the blackboard. I was actually given a C for the year by my Algebra 2 teacher for doing him the favor of going to the library instead of to class.

I wanted to go to college, but was stymied by the grammar and spelling issues with one of the professor's handouts. It was the instructor for the English class.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not smart to call yourself something with a huge wikipedia disambiguation page with possibly more important entities on the list. "AT&T" is original enough to be the king of its (small) disambiguation page.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[digimortal_uk]

At least over here the major difference was that before that you could demand that you had a phone line pretty much no matter where you lived and it cost about £50 to get it installed, now it costs £1000 and that is if you already live near an existing line. There was an old lady on the news yesterday, her safety alarm would not work any more because the telephone station in their are were being dismantled.

Yay privatization!

£1000? That's just plain wrong. According to their website it's £30 if you don't need an engineer visit, £130 if you do or free if you take broadband as well.

If you're being quoted £1000 you must live in the middle of nowhere and have never had a phone line before. Let me guess the milkman also doesn't deliver to your doorstep? Either suck it up or move to civilization.

Also prices have fallen 40% since priviatization so you're wrong on that count as well. (http://www.cps.org.uk/cps_catalog/CPS_assets/174_ProductPreviewFile.pdf)

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering BT is one of the oldest things on that list, and additionally came into existence before wikipedia, the Internet, and globalisation, I think their usage of the acronym is justified.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[Yvan256]

I was confused as to why and how the music industry could be pushing for BitTorrent to block Pirate Bay.

Cue the Chewbacca defense.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except BT carved its world mindshare under the name "British Telecom". They renamed themselves "BT" in 1991 at that's not much time for a name to become part of international culture. Actually the new name is so bland this might never happen, even with infinite time.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[tycoex]

This is exactly what I thought...

They're asking BitTorrent to block Pirate Bay?

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[KingAlanI]

I saw that as sarcasm about American English versus British English. Granted, some Americans can't write correct American English either.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? You still wait a month to have a phone line put in. This summer I had to wait three weeks just to have a line fault repaired which turned out to be a break where the pair went into the line card in the exchange! So much for privatisation, instead of providing a public service they now just provide profit to shareholders.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[Xest]

Please don't stick the words "fucking" and "Thatcher" that close together, it's enough to give any man nightmares for life.

Content filtering = responsibility ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because there is alot of internet that is hurting my sensitive eyes - every single time I repeatedly look at it

who can i sue?

Useless

[ocean_soul]

In Belgium ISP's have to block thepiratebay.org. This was ordered by a court a few weeks ago. So know everyone here uses depiraatbaai.be, which is just the name translated to Dutch. Shows the uselessness of trying to block something on the internet...

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

MPAA are really clueless, if they really wanted TPB down they would go after those ad sellers that hand TPB money.

Re:Useless

[Xelios]

It might be useless today, but now that they've got that first step of forcing an ISP to block a website they have all the time in the world to work out more effective alternatives to DNS filtering. I don't think they'll ever find something 100% effective, but they can do some real damage to the internet as we know it in the search. And as an added bonus they can say they've "exhausted all legal avenues" in their valiant struggle against piracy, that should help their cause some the next time they push for new legislation don't you think?

Re:Useless

[GameboyRMH]

No they are looking into this, we've seen the stories before on Slashdot.

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

It will never work 100%. The problem is it can work "good enough" to hinder use for those less able users. Censorship is not the answer. The law and courts should rule it illegal. The companies need to solve this issue through business and technological means. That essentially means fostering the distribution industry. When it is easier to get the content legally than to pirate the copyright industry wins. Right now it is a pain to infringe copyright. It is not a significant pain. Definitely a pain.

The best site(s) make you click through ads and trick you into all sorts of stuff. For $10 USD a month I should be able to get access to every major film and TV show legally. I go to the movies and spend $20 frequently on tickets and food. While this may be insanely expensive and over priced at least there are people doing work and I'm utilising a limited resource. Once a movie is produced it doesn't cost them anything more no matter how many times it is distributed. I am not suggesting that there is no value here. It is expensive to make a good movie. The issue is the industry refuses to license content to distributors or produce a site with all the major content. I shouldn't be able to go to an illegal site and gain access to more content more easily than I can by going to any of the legal sites. I don't even have to sign up for the illegal sites. It is easy. The legal sites could make money off of advertising. They choose not to.

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

All my music is on youtube, conveniently.

Re:Useless

[Teun]

So these poor Walloons are still unable to access the Pirate Bay?

Re:Useless

[bzipitidoo]

Their entire approach is useless. They could buy the entire government, write all the laws and criminalize all forms of sharing, sue and arrest millions, spy on everyone, shut down the Internet, force manufacturers to DRM everything, brainwash half the public, and still not stop piracy. Might as well try to outlaw sex and knowledge. Swapping flash drives in proverbial back alleys and unlocking hardware are just 2 ways of sharing that would be practically unstoppable even under such an extreme environment.

They won't find anything even 90% effective. There isn't any such thing. However, you're right about the damage they can do. They shouldn't be allowed to vandalize civilization. We shouldn't indulge them and their sick fantasies. Nor should we believe them when they claim they are only fighting the good fight, trying to stop bad old piracy. They lie, and we all know it. Piracy is not evil. And they have no principles, only greed. They've demonstrated this time and again by cheating the very artists they claim to be defending, hypocritically using the very technology they want to ban, and trampling upon laws they don't find convenient even as they seek to use the law against us all.

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

And piratebay have time to find how avoid filtering. And there is much more technical persons who want to avoid filtering than block it

Sauce for the goose...

[janrinok]

Of course, we've never had a case of TFS using such acronyms as MAFIAA, SCOTUS, DOJ, DOD, RIAA or POTUS, which mean very little at first sight to many /.'ers who live outside the US. And if you had followed the 2nd link, which you already would have read if you had been following this story, you would have known the answer immediately. Come on, we all have to learn as we go through life. True, the summary would have been clearer to all if BT had been expanded but its not the end of the world. None of my British friends use the abbreviation BT to mean BitTorrent, we simply say 'torrents' or the 'BitTorrent' depending on context. Additionally, CO, CC NB and CoW do not appear to be recognised abbreviations or acronyms anywhere in the context of TFS.

The market?

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem we have right now is that the market isn't being allowed to decide.

The market is deciding right now. People want "convenient" and "cheap" and they're apparently not getting it in sufficient quantity to avoid copyright infringement. It's not like people go out of their way to download illegally just to spite the *AAs of the world. (Well, some do, but they're a tiny minority.)

Re:The market?

[Anonymous Coward]

People want "convenient" and "cheap" and they're apparently not getting it in sufficient quantity to avoid copyright infringement.

This isn't the market deciding at all. It's just a bunch of freeloaders taking what they want. Meanwhile, back at RIASS they get a bunch of statistics that show people want our stuff, we just need to control it better.

If people truly wanted what you describe, they'd stop using the big media companies altogether. Which comes back to my original point - taking something because you disagree with the content or distribution model doesn't make it right.

You haven't provided a coherent argument against that. No-one does - because they can't.

Re:The market?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's just a bunch of freeloaders taking what they want.

Copying. Continue with the attacks, though. They strengthen your arguments greatly.

people want our stuff, we just need to control it better.

That will surely stop them! Bring in more draconian policies and DRM! Customers must love the DRM because they still buy the product, right? It can't be that they decided that it isn't enough of a problem to warrant not buying the product or anything.

 

No-one does - because they can't.

"I'm 100% right and you're 100% wrong." I think that is a great way to be open-minded! Proclaim that because you don't think your opponents' arguments are good enough, that must mean that no coherent (as defined by you) argument exists at all!

Re:The market?

[Anonymous Coward]

"I'm 100% right and you're 100% wrong." I think that is a great way to be open-minded! Proclaim that because you don't think your opponents' arguments are good enough, that must mean that no coherent (as defined by you) argument exists at all!

Fair enough, I'll drop the invective and simply pose the question:

What are the arguments favouring copying something because you disagree with the content or distribution model - in particular the contemporary copying via peer to peer technologies of various media files such as software, music and video?

I'm curious to see if you will actually try to answer it rather than weasel around and point the finger back at me.

I'll understand if you don't reply for a while, slashdot is bumping up my anonymous posting timeout too (up to 32 mins now....)

Re:The market?

[Anonymous Coward]

What are the arguments favouring copying something because you disagree with the content or distribution model - in particular the contemporary copying via peer to peer technologies of various media files such as software, music and video?

I'm only playing the devil's advocate. Also, the argument someone uses could be just about anything. "I don't like copyright" would be one. "I don't like their distribution model" would work, too. To some, that would justify their actions. Not everyone believes in absolute rights or wrongs, so telling them that it is "not right" isn't going to do much. Most of them just don't seem to care what others think.

Re:The market?

[Pieroxy]

Your question is futile. Information flow was very hard to control before, but the internet made this so easy that it's now all but impossible. Already, back in the days, CD burners made it very commonplace.

Music (and movies, books, photographs, etc...) are just information. As a result, the business of selling these goods is becoming an increasingly complex one to sustain. The entire copyright business is based on the (now) false premise that data distribution can be controlled. It cannot.

Now that the shit did hit the fan (not that they get it yet mind you, but it is clear to many) what is left?

Fortunately for them, pirating files is still a bit of a mess. So proposing simple models (like Amazon MP3 downloads which gives you 256kbps MP3s properly tagged) is a way that will work. Not too pricy, simple, fast. It will win because it will always be simpler than pirating your music.

Re:The market?

[kesuki]

"If people truly wanted what you describe, they'd stop using the big media companies altogether. Which comes back to my original point - taking something because you disagree with the content or distribution model doesn't make it right.

You haven't provided a coherent argument against that. No-one does - because they can't."

ahah you are wrong. there is the notion that 'nothing can be owned' usually for religious purposes.

we can see how well that worked for native americans, though.

Re:The market?

[MrNthDegree]

Here are the arguments favouring copying in general:

Copying is normal and natural in society, those very same performers copy other peoples works on a regular basis. For at least the last 30 years, the beats of most songs have been copied from prior generations' songs but with slight modifications. If it's fine for artists to copy from one another, it's fine for consumers to copy too. As consumers often become producers through copying, as it's how most people learn in the first place.....

This argument applies to video too. Every time a film makes use of a trope or stereotype, it has copied from somewhere.

Software is quite comprehensively the worst of all for copying. Just ask yourself what a DLL or Shared Object (SO) is......

Re:The market?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow. Only rarely have I ever seen such sophistry presented with such unthinking confidence.

BT made their own bed, now they must lie in it

[Anonymous Coward]

BT were ordered to block Newzbin because they could show no technical challenge to doing so. They had implemented the CleanFeed filtering system on their own initiative so that they could advertise that they were "family-friendly" and full of goodness by blocking "undesirable" sites.

And now it has bitten them on the arse because it will only cost, at their admission, £600 to add each court-ordered blocking request to CleanFeed. In business terms that is an entirely reasonable cost of compliance.

Meanwhile other UK ISPs who advertise unfiltered, uncensored connections and have no such blocking infrastructure are laughing heartily.

I have no sympathy for BT.

In other news: any chance that Slashdot could fix their posting JS? Hint: I am logged-in.

Anyone just find this hilarious now?

[Anonymous Coward]

They can't do anything right, not even suing people. (besides people ignorant enough to cave to their pressure)

And BT are just humoring them with simple filters that anyone at home with any recent router+modem can implement.

Right response from both parties ...

[MacTO]

BT is correct in insisting upon a court order.

On the other hand, it is also completely appropriate to request the block on The Pirate Bay. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this site facilitates the distribution of materials against the rights holders wishes. Which is kinda illegal.

Actions like this are, in my opinion, much better than more clandestine approaches since it utilizes information that is made available to the public. (The Pirate Bay openly displays which torrents are available. A rights holder can use a BitTorrent client to verify that it is their material being distributed.) It does not circumvent a person's expectation to privacy since the information is made available in a public manner.

And for those mocking how easy it is to circumvent these blocks: sure it is. On the other hand, they are not trying to stop piracy because they know that piracy cannot be stopped. They are trying to do damage control, and that may just work. After all, they only need to stop the people who *may* buy their products. There is very little sense in wasting resources to tackle piracy by those who will never buy their product.

Re:Right response from both parties ...

[betterunixthanunix]

There is very little sense in wasting resources to tackle piracy by those who will never buy their product.

Thus explaining why the RIAA sued so many college students.

Re:Right response from both parties ...

[znerk]

On the other hand, it is also completely appropriate to request the block on The Pirate Bay. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this site facilitates the distribution of materials against the rights holders wishes. Which is kinda illegal.

So is a denial of service attack, which is unarguably what the court is ordering them to implement against thepiratebay.org.

I may be implying my support for the illicit activities that TPB is allegedly facilitating, but I am also strongly disagreeing with the methodology that the courts are implementing. In essence, the courts are agreeing that there is no legal basis for attacking TPB explicitly, so they are going to attempt to remove them from the "map" of the internet as an end-run around the judicial process that would be required to shut down TPB itself. Of course, the fact that the judicial system has already been used in a failed attempt to shut them down shows that this outrageous behavior is either not illegal, or can't be stopped.

Is it any wonder so-called "darknets" are flourishing?

Re:Right response from both parties ...

[nabsltd]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this site facilitates the distribution of materials against the rights holders wishes.

So does Google.

TPB is nothing but a more specialized version of Google. They don't host any of the content, and don't run a BitTorrent tracker. When someone downloads the latest "Harry Potter" the only thing involving TPB is searching for it. Google does exactly the same thing, but also happens to index a lot of file types other than torrents.

Eventually, somebody is going to build a full Internet search engine that has a "filter out all the non-torrent stuff" setting that is configurable like Google's "Safe Searrch". Getting such a general-purpose search engine shut down would be next to impossible.

Re:Right response from both parties ...

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't take a genius to find an illegal use for any tool. Every make and model of car. Every firearm. Every knife or pointy kitchen utensil. Even if most people use something illegally, it is not a basis to restrict the freedoms of those who do not.

Re:Right response from both parties ...

[Zaiff Urgulbunger]

Problem is, there will be zero practical impact to any site that gets blocked. But on the other hand, BT (and any other affected ISP) does incur a cost which therefore gets passed to their customers.

Re:any censorship system will be expanded

[TaoPhoenix]

First Pastor Niemoller warned us, but we forgot about him. Then the nerds warned us, but we called them Tin Foil Hats. Then when they come for your favorite site there will be no recourse left.

Who still uses Pirate Bay?

[scottbomb]

I quit using them long ago after they made news headlines. There are plenty of other places to go. It's kinda like the "war on drugs". For every dealer you bust, a new one emerges.

Re:Who still uses Pirate Bay?

[DanielRavenNest]

According to Alexa ( http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/thepiratebay.org ), it's the 79th busiest website in the world, visited by around 1.2% of internet users per day, which is an increase of about 1/3 over the last two years. Additionally the number of internet users as a whole has grown over the past two years. As a techie that reads Slashdot, you are likely ahead of the curve. The general population is still catching on to this torrent thing, and the other methods of getting content, which includes the legal ones like Netflix.

Re:Who still uses Pirate Bay?

[dbcad7]

Miss the old mininova.., now mostly use btjunkie and extv.. but when eztv goes down, piratebay is the best source as a backup because files show up sooner.

Also a matter of cost...

[DanielRavenNest]

Compare the cost of getting a court order to block a site, and the cost of the site switching domain name and IP address. Then they just need secondary sites, like torrentfreak, to list what the site is called this week.

Re:Also a matter of cost...

[toriver]

Not to mention they are unlikely to block the biggest torrent finder out there: adding "type:torrent" to a Google search...

Re:any censorship system will be expanded

[Captain Splendid]

Then when they come for your favorite site there will be no recourse left.

Which means I won't start to care until the day I can't reach Demonoid anymore!

Here's the solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Read this then go here and do something about it.

Disclosure: I am not in the UK.

Getting around the blocking

[wfstanle]

Like blocking the site will do anything. They will simply invent a new name, get a new domain and be back. It could be like the different spellings of "VIAGRA@" in spam emails. One possibility could be "P1RATE BAY", I'm sure that they could get quite inventive. Of course, the new spelling could be quickly spread around the internet. It's like the game "Whack a Mole".

music != movies

[eddy_crim]

If you go to pirate bay and click top 100 you will notice that almost everything in the list are movies.
Now, if you have ever watched a movie to the end you will notice that there is huge long list of people who worked on the movie and most of these people are not movie stars and directors they are regular joes who, as far as i can tell need, probably deserved to get paid.

Now i know that the movie industry and the MPAA arn't exactly whiter than white, however i know who will suffer everyone decided to pirate their movies.

Pirate music and music will probably get made, pirate movies and new movies simply wont get made.

Re:music != movies

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know if you've been to the cinema recently, but new movies aren't being made anyway.

I can't remember the last original non-rebooted/re-imagined I saw that came out of Hollywood.

Re:music != movies

[kesuki]

tower heist? or is that too much a generic action movie for you?

Re:music != movies

[Grumbleduke]

Last week Time Warner announced third-quarter profits of $822 million. If the little people working on Warner films (i.e. those who aren't stars or executives) aren't being paid enough, and are "suffering", it isn't because of copyright infringement. And that's before you take into account the wonder of Hollywood accounting. The little person is likely to be screwed whatever happens, if their employer is bringing in $3bn a year and doesn't have a conscience.

Already happening in Finland

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/IFPI+Finland+orders+Elisa+internet+service+provider+to+prevent+its+clients+from+accessing+Pirate+Bay+website/1135266471582
http://torrentfreak.com/isp-refuses-to-block-the-pirate-bay-110717

A month eh?

[Ga_101]

How long does it take BT to put in an ASDL connection?
You guessed it! A month.

Re:A month eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

And they'll charge you more than £120 ($190) to reconnect the line if the property has not had a connection for a few weeks. And they'll charge you line rental and subscription in the month you are waiting for their knuckle-dragging "engineers" to remove the marker from your line. Additionally, when they do it wrongly and you get next-door's phone lines, it takes a week and a half to fix that, and all the while you are paying for it.

I switched to O2, needing 9 months of a year's contract. When it came time to leave the house, we just overtopped our allowance two months running and they cut us off with no penalty, saving us 3 months subscription. Still had to bay the effing line rental (from BT) though.

Re:A month eh?

[Xest]

Er, each time I've moved it's taken 3 days, although the official time period is 7 days.

Where did you get a month from?

at the risk of baiting flames

[fireylord]

Careful, 'they' don't have a fully formed sense of homo(u)r and may not get the irony ;)

Fracturing the net

[Hentes]

Allowing nationstates to interfere with the Internet in ways like this will lead to the fracturing of the global network.

I do not want "pirated" material

[Gonoff]

I do want to be able to go to whatever website I want to, when I want to. I do not consider it satisfactory that some sociopath in a suit tells me what I can do - even if I have no wish to do any different.
If that does not sound coherent, let me try and rephrase it.

I will decide what my computer is capable of doing. Any organisation that treats the general public as criminals is not an organisation that I want to have any controlling influence upon me.

I suspect that it would require something like Tor to get around this. I have thought about installing this in the past. I just never got round to it. I just think that the more encrypted traffic on the internet there is, the unhappier that bunch of crooks may feel.

I wonder if someone will get it running on the Raspberry Pi.