Music Industry Pushing For BT To Block Pirate Bay

First time accepted submitter mariocki writes "British music industry body BPI has requested BT block access to Pirate Bay. In response, BT say they will only do so if they receive a court order. But after BT recently lost a court case forcing them to block Newzbin, it looks like it's a case of when — not if — this will happen."

Comments

Alternate DNS/routing.

[GNULinuxGuy]

Methinks alternate DNS and routing methods are about to get a lot more popular in the UK.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[TAZ6416]

Apparently they'll be using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleanfeed_(content_blocking_system) so alternative DNS won't work.

However, using TOR, third party VPN or what I plan to do, use my phone's 3G tethering to get a torrent file then switch back to BT once I have it should all work fine I imagine.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[justforgetme]

It's still pilfering someone's hard work for free.

I was given to understand that Beyonce is one of the "girls (who run the world)" I wasn't informed that this meant coal mining to keep the record industry going.

No, honestly? Hard work? You really have no idea how media distribution works now, do you? The record companies have a 80% margin on their product 95% of that stays with the record company and only 5% goes to the signed artist (and that is when you stroke a good deal).
So, no. You are not stealing from the artist and since the artists is the only one that could be considered working (via a proxy producer/choreographer/prman usually) You are not stealing by copying that album of the Internet.

If you want to help an artist make money go support a band on kickstarter or buy off some indie band's web shop etc. Also, that's where You usually will get good bang for Your money (limited edition vinyl + flacc downloads, etc).

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[testostertwo]

Not even... See this.

http://revk.www.me.uk/2011/11/secret-to-accessing-newzbin2-from-bt.html

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Gaygirlie]

Yep, freetards gotta have their freebees.

And I'm not interested in the whole 'but p2p isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement'. WE KNOW. It's still pilfering someone's hard work for free. If you don't intend on paying for it, don't use it. It's quite simple.

But we've got a generation who expect something for nothing nowadays....

Bring on the DRM I say.

It's not about "freebees", tbh. It's about freedom to express oneself and liability. First of all, should an ISP be liable for stuff that people put on the Internet if the content is not hosted on the ISP's equipment simply because they are providing the means for people to access the Internet? To me it seems like saying that the city should be held accountable for e.g. bank robberies, simply because they are the ones providing the roads to the bank. Secondly, should large corporations be given the right to demand the blocking of one or another website? If it was a small company or an individual this wouldn't even be considered, the only reason this is considered is because the corporations in question have deep pockets. A 10-man sweatshop would in no way or form be able to do the same even if they actually did lose 95% of their income due to piracy, but a large corporation that is still raking on money like crazy and are likely losing something around 5 percent of possible income gets to tell ISPs what to block. Do we really want a future where large corporations are given ever more privileges compared to small ones?

I atleast don't feel comfortable with such disparity in privileges and I am still unsure of what I think about holding an ISP liable for things like this. It seems to me like a huge can of worms that will sooner or later majorly screw people over.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[hxnwix]

Yep, freetards gotta have their freebees.... Bring on the DRM I say.

How are those boots tasting? Lick harder, I want a good polish.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

I just bought some music last week. It had no DRM whatsoever. I had already listened to the music dozens of times on Youtube. If I had checked on TPB, I'd probably have found it. The album artist asked customers to set their own price with no minimum, and I paid $10 for the album. That artist chose not to treat his paying customers as his enemies, and accordingly I joined them. Over the past year I spent some $300 on digital media, which is roughly what I can afford.

0.00 of those dollars went to cartels that view their customers as an enemy by pouring millions into developing technologies that hinder their legitimate and non-violating actions with music they paid for - millions that came out of these customers' own pockets, to further the irony.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[SuricouRaven]

Huh... only filters port 80? Which actually makes perfect sense - it means that BT have achieved the block by simply adding newsbin to the list of websites hosting child pornography, and so repurposed their existing child-porn filter CleanFeed. If they were doing it by a new IP block, they would have blocked all traffic to the IP rather than just port 80. Cleanfield works by redirecting only port 80 to a transparent proxy. Technically elegant - why set up a whole new filtering policy if you already have the infrastructure in place? - but in PR terms a little embarassing, as it serves to validate the claims by CleanFeed's critics that once a convenient censorship system is built, even for a purpose so widely supported as blocking child porn, it's all but inevitable that it will eventually be put to other uses that that for which it was intended.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Opportunist]

I think it's much more complicated than that. It's indeed a generation problem, but one that runs far deeper.

The core group of people who would be the customers and consumers of content have always been the group of the 14-35 year olds. And they are now the ones that could be considered the digital natives. People who had a computer their whole life and could not imagine a life without. And we're about to see the ones that aren't used to the internet as part of their life, the ones that didn't grow up in a world without it, leave that age bracket. It's not a change in behaviour, it's a change in the use of means. Because that whole copying problem has existed since the first person turned on the vinyl record and that 8track recorder at the same time, and the moment someone had two betamax video recorders and knew how to connect them. The difference is only in the technology, and the ease of use.

I'm not so convinced the generation internet is used to "something for nothing". That hasn't changed. Every 40 year old who never had a music cassette full of music copied from a record may throw the first stone. This generation has only much easier to use tools for the same thing their parents and maybe even grandparents did.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Sparx139]

Until, you know, a geek explains how to do it to their less technical friends, who then pass it on, and then the entire thing turns into a massive joke.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Mr Thinly Sliced]

The difference is only in the technology, and the ease of use.

I'd personally go a little further - there is also the (perceived) anonymity and freely available nature of the required equipment.

* Everyone (more or less) has the necessary PC and internet connection nowadays - previously shelling out for the 8-track _and_ the record player was a larger barrier to entry and along with the required physical effort and time made the activity non-casual.

* Trading physical things vs the internet p2p model offers some perceived anonymity. It's not really the case (unless you are going the TOR or freenet route) of course. This does make people more comfortable / confident in using it.

I'm not saying it's right, just wanted to add to the reasons why this generation seem to be more invested in it than previous generations who seemingly had the same opportunities.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[arkhan_jg]

It was in fact the court that ordered BT to use the Cleanfeed filtering system to block the Newzbin2 domain, IP and any others they start using. This is partly because BT argued the cost of setting up and maintaining a new system to do all-port IP range blocking would be too expensive, and was an unwarranted expense to impose on them considering they're (BT) not actually doing anything illegal.

But you're entirely correct that this validates the concerns that any censorship system will eventually be expanded. Now the courts have decided Cleanfeed is suitable for trying to block sites accused of assisting copyright infringement - and will no doubt add the piratebay to the list, how long before they also agree to order BT to start blocking sites accused of promoting terrorism, racial hatred or even just accused of hosting libelous statements? UK courts have already shut down such sites that were UK hosted, now they've a mechanism for doing so for foreign hosted sites.

That it doesn't block ports outside of 80 - including https! - means it's an entirely worthless exercise for the technically savvy, but the same doesn't hold true once political blogs or forums that the less savvy might read start getting blocked.

(Note for the non-UK residents - BT internet are the biggest consumer ISP, with about 1/4 of all internet users in the UK. BT also runs the copper telephone line infrastructure, and has the vast majority of POTS customers. A number of other ISPs resell BT internet access, and some of them also subscribe to Cleanfeed, the child-porn filter. Virgin and TalkTalk, the next two biggest ISPs have also been involved in the court cases, but have not - yet - been ordered to block newzbin 2)

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[vinehair]

However, supporting the record label by buying the discs will make it so much easier for the band to get the funding to go on tour. For the music genres filled with people with a genuine love for what they do and where performing to appreciative fans is the end game for getting into the business rather than money (most genres except the Pop Idol, celebrity obsessed half of the pop music section) this can be its own reward. You can also then further support them by going to see them live and possibly buying their band paraphernalia / crap. Not to mention that discs that sell well encourage the labels to give better contracts in the future. I'm sorry, but the only justification for pirating music is getting the material that is out of print and unobtainable. If you don't like supporting the record industry, don't give money to the bands that feel it's a worthwhile deal for them to use them to get their music heard and possibly go and play them live. There is in this day and age, after all, perfectly fine free music and it is totally possible to release music via the internet without the middle man. More power to them, but most of those bands aren't doing major tours - they probably don't want to do that, and that's just fine. You could possibly make an argument for downloading older albums that aren't going to influence the band's current day chances, but even if you're not really doing the same harm as you would by downloading a brand new album, you're still taking away the artists (small) share, the employees of the record label that do grunt work, the owners of the labels (who own the business and have a legitimate right to earn money from their business) and also from the stores that are selling the discs. It's not really justifiable in any way to say copying is right. The internet is a disruptive technology causing us to rethink the value of data, but until that is done and codified into our laws and culture properly, you should respect copyright. If you can't afford music, then you have other problems on your plate than feeling like you deserve to be entertained for free.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[icebraining]

Nowadays you just need the Magnet link. Bookmark it, sync bookmarks with desktop/laptop, open them all.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[justforgetme]

Look we are basically on the same side here. Our difference in opinion bases on that I see natural evolution in the Internet changing how we perceive arts and such and You apparently would like the new distibution model be a much more precise and well defined platform. There is not telling which is the correct position and which is not. Therefore joining into heated debates about what is the right thing might be counter productive.

Truly you cannot judge a theory only by its theoretical assumptions, you have to put it to the test.
I pirate a lot of stuff. I also pay a monthly subscription to somafm.com, because I like the service they provide. I also support many smaller bands that I have come to know through that subscription having bought LPs digital releases and coffemugs from lots and lots of indies. I pledge to kickstarter and have so become a part of the reason why a lot of interesting projects have utilized.
Is it wrong for me to download all those blockbusters from isohunt? Maybe. The fact is that, had I to pay for them, I would have bought a new dvd set of ST:TNG because the one I own is starting to fade (bits rot apparently).

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Anonymous Coward]

This makes zero sense.

It's so easy for consumers and site owners to use alternate addressing. Wasn't this explained to the judge? If the internet is like water flowing down a hill, putting a rock in the way won't do anything except reroute traffic in the same way that water will flow around the rock. If you build a dam, sure, you'l change things but building huge dams just to protect an outdated business model makes no economic sense; and it doesn't solve the fundamental problem that people still can still move data around on either side of the 'dam.'

This is solving the wrong problem.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[AngryDeuce]

Oh my god, four thousand years?? Your life must be horrible!

Seriously, I pirated them before because here they never showed them at all because it would take an infinite amount of time for them to reach us. Four thousand years is nothing.

(Posting from the event horizon of a black hole)

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[hxnwix]

Haha, what's that? Couldn't hear you over the sound of my money accruing. By the way, you missed a spot.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[AngryDeuce]

No, those teenagers will just go to the guy they know to download the shit for them, and sneakernet will reemerge as the most common method of distribution once again.

I made a fair amount of money in the early days of Napster making people mix discs, and the more they clamp down, the more valuable my abilities to find almost anything online become.

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[Oxford_Comma_Lover]

Actually, there are several bases for property rights. The classic Lockean property rights were based on the idea of having earned the right to possess the fruits of your labor. That is not a market-based theory, but it certainly has a lot of popular appeal.

First possession is another. Accretion is another. Laws defaulting property rights to the state which lowers transaction costs is another (and is the most efficient--suggesting we should have open sharing and some kind of society-based remuneration for artists based on the number of downloads they receive, since that would eliminate all the transaction costs we spend on DRM and copyright enforcement, not to mention the transaction costs associated with having a situation where "to a first approximation, every computer user is a felon.").

Re:Alternate DNS/routing.

[s0litaire]

well he did actually!
he said the Music Industry does not need to come back for a court order to block any new "Newzbin2" sites.
quote from http://torrentfreak.com/uk-isp-bt-given-14-days-to-block-newzbin2-111026/
"
According to the Judge, the MPA and BT were in conflict over the extent of this flexibility.

The MPA preferred the block to encompass “any other IP address or URL whose sole or predominant purpose is to enable or facilitate access to the Newzbin [2] website,” but BT wanted “and any other website whose sole purpose is to provide access to the Newzbin [2] website.”

The Judge agreed with the MPA and noted that the studios should not have to “return to court for an order in respect of every single IP address or URL that the operators of Newzbin2 may use.”
"

Re:File trading is the radio of the 21st century

[justforgetme]

You really forget one very important fact:

The Music Industry doesn't want you discovering new music! They are afraid that, in doing so, you might actually find the good stuff and stop buying Britney Spears.

Now it's the pirate bay, tomorrow they will want to shut down all the indie bands!

Buy the department of justice

[symbolset]

Have they considered buying the UK equivalent of department of justice, like RIAA did in the US? That's a well-proven method of greasing the wheels to get what you want, and quite cost-effective. A few millions in political contributions lead to billions in profits.

Re:Buy the department of justice

[pigpilot]

Not a good idea in the UK.

The UK is far behind the USA when it comes to political corruption and accepting corporate control of our courts and politicians.

Our equivalent of the US Department of Justice is staffed by largely independent career civil servants who will happily leak attempts to buy policy. They stay when the actual politicians come and go and are resistant to political interference with their day to day work.

We have the equivalent of rabid ferrets for a national press who love nothing more than ripping apart politicians for the sake of a headline and regularly set the politicians up. The tabloids tend to tear into anyone with fame or political/economic power and once they draw blood the BBC and other broadcast media will finish off the 'victim'.

We also have a judiciary that regularly gives the government the finger by managing to interpret new laws in ways the politicians never expected.

Corporations that try to buy legislation/political power have sometimes gotten away with having an influence, but more often than not end up getting their balls handed back to them on a platter.

As a UK citizen I'd love it if the music industry tried the crude methods they use in the USA as the backlash against them would be entertaining.

In the long run only change in the USA can stop the cancer of the American media industry trying to remake the rest of the world in it's own image.

Re:What is BT? What is BPI?

[mirix]

The oldest telecom in the world, with 100k employees in its current state, traded on both LSE and NYSE under the name 'BT'. Part of the FTSE index.

It used to be part of the post office. It was owned by the crown until fucking thatcher came along.

Useless

[ocean_soul]

In Belgium ISP's have to block thepiratebay.org. This was ordered by a court a few weeks ago. So know everyone here uses depiraatbaai.be, which is just the name translated to Dutch. Shows the uselessness of trying to block something on the internet...

Sauce for the goose...

[janrinok]

Of course, we've never had a case of TFS using such acronyms as MAFIAA, SCOTUS, DOJ, DOD, RIAA or POTUS, which mean very little at first sight to many /.'ers who live outside the US. And if you had followed the 2nd link, which you already would have read if you had been following this story, you would have known the answer immediately. Come on, we all have to learn as we go through life. True, the summary would have been clearer to all if BT had been expanded but its not the end of the world. None of my British friends use the abbreviation BT to mean BitTorrent, we simply say 'torrents' or the 'BitTorrent' depending on context. Additionally, CO, CC NB and CoW do not appear to be recognised abbreviations or acronyms anywhere in the context of TFS.

Re:File trading is the radio of the 21st century

[AngryDeuce]

Exactly, they just want you buying the same album over and over again. I bought Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon on vinyl back in the 80's, on cassette twice (car ate the first one), and on CD three times (the regular CD released way back when I got my first CD player, a remastered one at some point in the late 90's, and a 5.1 SACD of it).

I'm not buying it again, I absolutely refuse. Any new releases of this damn album come out, I'm downloading them with a clean conscience. They've already gotten over $150 out of me on a single album that was released 40 years ago, and that's just one example, there are many others in my collection that I bought multiple times, Ozzy-era Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, The Doors, The Who....

Add all the movies I've had to buy multiple times (VHS, replacement VHS, DVD, Bluray...) and it's hard for me to feel bad downloading stuff like Star Wars when I've already paid for it three times over by now...

Re:The market?

[Pieroxy]

Your question is futile. Information flow was very hard to control before, but the internet made this so easy that it's now all but impossible. Already, back in the days, CD burners made it very commonplace.

Music (and movies, books, photographs, etc...) are just information. As a result, the business of selling these goods is becoming an increasingly complex one to sustain. The entire copyright business is based on the (now) false premise that data distribution can be controlled. It cannot.

Now that the shit did hit the fan (not that they get it yet mind you, but it is clear to many) what is left?

Fortunately for them, pirating files is still a bit of a mess. So proposing simple models (like Amazon MP3 downloads which gives you 256kbps MP3s properly tagged) is a way that will work. Not too pricy, simple, fast. It will win because it will always be simpler than pirating your music.