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IT's Next Hot Job: Hadoop Guru

gManZboy writes "JPMorgan Chase and other companies at this year's Hadoop World conference came begging for job applicants: They say they can't find enough IT pros with certain skills, including Hadoop MapReduce. That spells high pay. As for Hadoop's staying power as a career path (a la SQL 30 years ago), IBM, Microsoft and Oracle have all embraced Hadoop this year. Maybe the best news of all: 'Intelligent technologists will pick up Hadoop very quickly.'"

112 comments

  1. I'll start now! by loftwyr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    After all, every other framework of the month has lasted for 30 years, Hadoop will have at least as much staying power as Ruby on Rails!

    1. Re:I'll start now! by ackthpt · · Score: 1

      After all, every other framework of the month has lasted for 30 years, Hadoop will have at least as much staying power as Ruby on Rails!

      I wonder if you can learn how to create and maintain security in less than a week.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:I'll start now! by Amouth · · Score: 1

      it's simple - rent a cement mixer and wire snips - start with pouring it over everything until it is fully encased - then go around with the wire snips and cut any communication cables coming out of the system..

      wait - did you want to use it? then how could it possibly secure if you allow users to use it?

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    3. Re:I'll start now! by jsnipy · · Score: 1

      Accessibility is an aspect of security

      --
      -- if you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine
    4. Re:I'll start now! by MrEricSir · · Score: 1

      Is that the latest excuse as to why the "security solutions" out there today are complete crap?

      --
      There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
    5. Re:I'll start now! by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Accessibility is an aspect of security

      No, it isn't.
      Accessibility is a concession security types make.
      If a thing is DDoSd, the security is actually improved.
      The PHBs will whine and cry, though.

    6. Re:I'll start now! by Niomosy · · Score: 1

      Which is why the goal should be user-unfriendly. If they can't figure out how to use it, you won't have to worry about security issues.

    7. Re:I'll start now! by Xyrus · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hadoop is geat, fast, and easy to use!*

      *Statements are based on word count example and terrasort. Performance may vary greatly. May need to spend significant amounts of time to tune cluster for your particular data and applications to see any real performance. Applications may need to be specially designed to fit within the tuning constraints of the cluster. This statement does not apply if you are using binary data of significant size (BDOSS). Multiple data sets and apps may not perform equally well within the cluster. Data pre-processing, formatting, sequencing, and other such steps are not included in this statement. If you any problems, hope to $DIETY Google returns a hit. See your browser search bar for further details.

      --
      ~X~
    8. Re:I'll start now! by froggymana · · Score: 1

      Is that the latest excuse as to why the "security solutions" out there today are complete crap?

      Just put it in a VM. If it's in a VM it's secure, right?

      --
      "To prevent this day from getting any worse, I'll just read ERROR as GOOD THING" 1GJU8xLuDKDxEs4KLf8fAGyptoDsqvEsBT
    9. Re:I'll start now! by Semyazza · · Score: 1

      In traditional physical security the only things limiting it are: Convenience, Comfort and Cost. This can be said the same for computer security.

  2. Bad learning resources by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If you want a strong userbase, projects with good, easy to use learning resources do better. When you hit the hadoop main page, they tell you what it is, but not what you need to know in order to use it. They don't tell you what languages it supports. They give no examples of usage. Essentially, they don't do you any favours.

    1. Re:Bad learning resources by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you want a strong userbase, projects with good, easy to use learning resources do better. When you hit the hadoop main page, they tell you what it is, but not what you need to know in order to use it. They don't tell you what languages it supports. They give no examples of usage. Essentially, they don't do you any favours.

      I spent some time trying to implement some nice free tools from IBM and Apache. I found I needed to download X and do a build of it, but half way through it wanted Y to complete the build. OK... So I go find Y and try doing a build on it, but need something else from Apache, which doesn't like the vesion of Apache I'm running. So I get the other Apache thing and find I can't get it to start up. I go research it and find conflicting and incomplete information all over the web. I throw in the towel.

      One thing needed is One source for information and clear instructions for a basic, default build of a platform. Once that is reliable, then document ways to add foo and bar or even plugh if it suits you.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:Bad learning resources by evil_aaronm · · Score: 1

      Agree completely. Describes my experience with Linux - which I've used and liked, for the most part, since '95 - very closely. I now use a Mac as my primary machine. I get the close-to-the-metal experience - when I want it - with the ease of double-click installation.

    3. Re:Bad learning resources by JonySuede · · Score: 4, Informative

      drink the maven kool aid, and you worries will be beyond you.
      To use hadoop :

              org.apache.hadoop
              hadoop-core
              0.20.205.0

      in your pom.mxl

      Then write 2 classes like those one:

      class MyMap extends MapReduceBase implements Mapper<K1, V1, K2, V2 >...
      class MyReduce extends MapReduceBase implements Reducer<K2, V2, K3, V3>...

      Feed instances of those to a JobConf and feed that instance to a JobClient.

      The rest should be obvious to a seasoned programmer, just by looking at the nomenclature of the classes hierarchy.

      The great Ward Cunningham, is right, put two days into studying something and you are already half way to expert.

      --
      Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
    4. Re:Bad learning resources by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There a similar maven recipe for deploying a hadoop cluster? That's the part that struck me as really tedious, but I might be confusing that with an hbase install.

      Hadoop is easy -- having the analytical skills to express a problem as mapreduce in the first place is the hard part.

    5. Re:Bad learning resources by kelemvor4 · · Score: 2

      I spent some time trying to implement some nice free tools from IBM and Apache. I found I needed to download X and do a build of it, but half way through it wanted Y to complete the build. OK... So I go find Y and try doing a build on it, but need something else from Apache, which doesn't like the vesion of Apache I'm running. So I get the other Apache thing and find I can't get it to start up. I go research it and find conflicting and incomplete information all over the web. I throw in the towel.

      One thing needed is One source for information and clear instructions for a basic, default build of a platform. Once that is reliable, then document ways to add foo and bar or even plugh if it suits you.

      Sounds like IBM all right. They make some decent products sometimes. I'm fairly certain that other times they go out of their way to make things a pain in the ass to use. Maybe it's supposed to be a joke on the rest of the world?

    6. Re:Bad learning resources by JonySuede · · Score: 1

      There a similar maven recipe for deploying a hadoop cluster

      no, not now, but if you need it, you could easily fork http://mojo.codehaus.org/wagon-maven-plugin so that it could be used like that:mvn install deploy:deploy deploy:execute-on-remote.

      Hadoop is easy -- having the analytical skills to express a problem as mapreduce in the first place is the hard part.

      Agreed, math is more useful, my halfexpertise enables me to assert that the right way to express a problem for hadoop is it to formulate it into associative (a+b==b+a) and distributive (a*(b+c)==a*b+a*c) operators. But I only have two day of self-education on the subject, if someone more experienced would like to enlighten us, I would appreciate.

      --
      Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
    7. Re:Bad learning resources by mr_stinky_britches · · Score: 1

      You forgot your oozie workdflows.mxl!!!1

      And then what about your PIG UDF's... and wait, I actually want to do it in scala, mkay?

      --
      Censorship is obscene. Patriotism is bigotry. Faith is a vice. Slashdot 2.0 sucks.
    8. Re:Bad learning resources by Doctor+Memory · · Score: 1

      ??? I just got a note from my manager on "big data", and decided to take a look at Hadoop. I downloaded the latest stable release, set JAVA_HOME in the config file and ran the example program. Total time to having a working instance: about a half hour, which included five minutes or so to download the tarball. Did you not see this page?

      --
      Just junk food for thought...
  3. Right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because somehow remaking existing clustering ideas as a single point of failure framework written in one of the most inefficient languages ever is somehow revolutionary and necessary.

    Of course, dumb IT managers will eat it up. What ever happened to simple, reliable techniques that didn't rely on the latest flavor of the month to execute?

    1. Re:Right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Java is one of the most inefficient languages ever? I take it you've never programmed in ruby, python, perl, etc. IIRC, Java benchmarks have shown it outpacing everything except for C/C++, FORTRAN and OCaml.

    2. Re:Right. by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Java is one of the most inefficient languages ever? I take it you've never programmed in ruby, python, perl, etc. IIRC, Java benchmarks have shown it outpacing everything except for C/C++, FORTRAN and OCaml.

      On first execution (and compile) it's slow. On first creation of an instance it is slow. After that Java makes up for itself rather nicely. If well implemented it's a great way to go, though I wouldn't chose it for my 3D rendering or reconciling a fiscal year's worth of journal entries, it's not that kind of language.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    3. Re:Right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I take it you don't know what the phrase "one of X" means, because you have perfectly described what I mean by "Java is ONE OF THE most inefficient languages ever" by listing more of them.

      Are people really this dumb these days?

    4. Re:Right. by sexconker · · Score: 1

      I take it you don't know what the phrase "one of X" means, because you have perfectly described what I mean by "Java is ONE OF THE most inefficient languages ever" by listing more of them.

      Are people really this dumb these days?

      Yes, yes they are.
      All I hear is java this, python that. People care more about being able to throw shit on a wall and have it run than they do about performance, reliability, or functionality.

    5. Re:Right. by bertok · · Score: 1

      On first execution (and compile) it's slow. On first creation of an instance it is slow.

      But it doesn't have to be slow ever! Microsoft .NET doesn't have most of those problems, despite being otherwise mostly identical. That's because Microsoft applied this fantastic new technology that apparently Sun has never heard of called a "cache".

      This is why Java fell flat on its face in the desktop world, because Sun couldn't wrap their heads around that fact that every launch will be a "first instance" because having dozens of simultaneously running instances of a single process is very rare on desktops. Oh, and of course, on top of this, Java doesn't share code between processes, so the few situations where there are many instances of a process running (e.g.: Citrix XenApp or Terminal Servers) can enjoy two to three times the memory usage compared to native and .NET applications.

      Java was originally developed for set-top boxes where there's only one process running that starts on boot. It never really grew up to embrace the PC world, and works on servers as well as it does only coincidentally.

    6. Re:Right. by Spykk · · Score: 1

      though I wouldn't chose it for ... reconciling a fiscal year's worth of journal entries

      You might be surprised how often java is used to do just that.

  4. Getting the Experience by geoffrobinson · · Score: 5, Informative

    The trick is going to be getting the appropriate experience without having learned it on the job already.

    Yes, it can be done. However, this technology is geared towards environments with lots of nodes in big clusters. (which can run Linux) That's not the same as simply learning a language.

    I got a job utilizing a "Big Data" database technology by being at the right place at the right time, when this technology was being rolled out. It's also hard to find people with that specialized experience.

    So I would suggest to companies, hire people and train them. Just get quality people if you can't find someone with the specific skill set.

    --
    Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
    1. Re:Getting the Experience by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1, Insightful

      That's OK, it won't stop moron head hunters from stipulating in the coming weeks that they only want Hadoop programmers with at least 5 - 10 years experience. I remember seeing that for Java programmers... in 2000.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    2. Re:Getting the Experience by Questy · · Score: 1

      Or 10 years of Windows 2000 in 2002. The answer is always the same, too... "that's what my client wants" and my answer is also always the same: "Then your client is an idiot and you can't count."

      --
      #!/Jerald
    3. Re:Getting the Experience by ackthpt · · Score: 1, Interesting

      That's OK, it won't stop moron head hunters from stipulating in the coming weeks that they only want Hadoop programmers with at least 5 - 10 years experience. I remember seeing that for Java programmers... in 2000.

      Blame HR departments. They need to spend some time with the internal department which needs the guru. I remember having a good laugh in 1999 when some ads were run, looking for people with at least 10 years Java experience. The sick thing is the HR department or Headhunter will use that as a screening device and only end up with liars applying -- like the contractor we had for 2 weeks, who claimed to be an expert in a staggering number of tools and languages, despite a rather young age -- yeah, he had to borrow my copy K & R to try to puzzle how to write a date verification function and in a week he still didn't have it done, so much for being proficient in c.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    4. Re:Getting the Experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know why that's supposed to be so unreasonable. I saw lots of JAVA IS TEH BEST ads in 1995. I suppose if I had give a shit then about Java I could have learned more and started getting experience.

    5. Re:Getting the Experience by xclr8r · · Score: 1

      Don't argue with them on the details.. think outside the box. Just give them dumb answers back.

      20 years experience including the following:
      a.
      b.
      c.
      d.
      e.
      f.
      etc. etc.

      --
      Beware of those who profit off the docile and persecute the unbelievers.
    6. Re:Getting the Experience by raydobbs · · Score: 2

      Oh, how I wish this was how it's supposed to work... many employers really REALLY -MEAN- having ten years of experience in the product that JUST came out. I remember getting through the 'gauntlet' only to have the interviewer get really pissed that I didn't have the experience. Told me I 'wasted his time and mine, and that he would make sure I would NOT be considered for any position in that company EVER, just for being such a liar'.

      Needless to say, I told him how awesome he was - and never worried about it again.

      Some people ARE -those- kind of assholes, though.

    7. Re:Getting the Experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The trick is going to be getting the appropriate experience without having learned it on the job already.

      Yes, it can be done. However, this technology is geared towards environments with lots of nodes in big clusters. (which can run Linux) That's not the same as simply learning a language.

      I got a job utilizing a "Big Data" database technology by being at the right place at the right time, when this technology was being rolled out. It's also hard to find people with that specialized experience.

      So I would suggest to companies, hire people and train them. Just get quality people if you can't find someone with the specific skill set.

      Words of wisdom sir!

    8. Re:Getting the Experience by Aryden · · Score: 1
      How would you know if he's lying? I've been asked the same kinds of questions by idiot managers, and the answer is always "No I do not have x years of experience with Y product that just launched"

      Maybe you just don't get that there are seriously ignorant people out there in positions that somehow determine your eligibility for employment. Especially your average HR manager.

      I interviewed for a gig working for an MMO developer, the HR guy spent 45 minutes talking about how "This workplace culture eludes him" and how he has never played computer games or worked for any company in the IT industry. He came to the company from a warehouse management job. Yet the only 2 technical questions he asked me, which I explained easily, he couldn't comprehend.

    9. Re:Getting the Experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sea kelp.

    10. Re:Getting the Experience by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      That's OK, it won't stop moron head hunters from stipulating in the coming weeks that they only want Hadoop programmers with at least 5 - 10 years experience. I remember seeing that for Java programmers... in 2000.

      I've seen some of those time-travel ads myself. My colleagues said of this practice, "just lie to the HR people. It's what we did to get here."

    11. Re:Getting the Experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just last year I was contacted by a headhunter demanding 5 years of Exchange 2010 experience...

    12. Re:Getting the Experience by aliquis · · Score: 1

      People should just do a huge piracy network with it.

    13. Re:Getting the Experience by geoffrobinson · · Score: 1

      I recently inquired about a side gig involving that rare database skill. Apparently, they weren't interested in part time person with this skill who was willing to do remote work.

      No, the person had to be on-site... for a 3 month contract. I just told them "good luck finding the right candidate". But as you guys said, they probably wind up with liars.

      --
      Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
    14. Re:Getting the Experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's just as getting a job offer from Google and then having to make silly high-school programming assignments as a way to asses your skills.
      After working +20 years in the industry, you'll get used to all kinds of morons.

      .

    15. Re:Getting the Experience by layer3switch · · Score: 1

      > I remember having a good laugh in 1999 ... how to write a date verification function

      Y2K, good times. good times...

      --
      "Don't let fools fool you. They are the clever ones."
    16. Re:Getting the Experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The experience requirement is sometimes misinterpreted. It should say programmer with 5-10 years experience, that also knows Hadoop. They want 5-10 years of work experience, AND you know Hadoop. Not 5-10 years of Hadoop experience.

    17. Re:Getting the Experience by Builder · · Score: 1

      If you get an offer, why do you still need to assess your skills? Or did you mean an interview ?

    18. Re:Getting the Experience by geoffrobinson · · Score: 1

      I understand. I'm speaking to getting the experience at all.

      --
      Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
    19. Re:Getting the Experience by ralphc · · Score: 1

      You can get a master/slave combo VMWare VM at http://www.cloudera.com./ They also have packages for Ubuntu, I made an at-home cluster of VMs with one master and a slave that I can replicate.

    20. Re:Getting the Experience by Questy · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry you can't comprehend that this does happen out there. 15 years of Java in 2000. 10 years of Windows 2000 in 2002. I've seen both asked. In fact, MANY times this has been covered right here on Slashdot... several years ago. Long before you ever joined the site. You should really pause to consider who the readers and posters in Slashdot are. Many of them are employers, consultants, engineers... Those with PhD's and in fields of research you'll never be a part of. Many of us work for the largest companies in the world.

      --
      #!/Jerald
    21. Re:Getting the Experience by u-235-sentinel · · Score: 1

      Just last year I was contacted by a headhunter demanding 5 years of Exchange 2010 experience...

      Did you offer him a +1 Funny or -1 Troll? :-)

      --
      Has Comcast disconnected your Internet account? Same here. You can read about it at http://comcastissue.blogspot.com
  5. That spells high pay. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Typically when I read "That spells high pay." it usually isn't much higher than the industry average.
    Bankers get $5.5 million in bonuses per year. Now that's high pay!

  6. What about stability and uptime of their web?!? by papaia · · Score: 1

    They should look into some resources able to make/redesign/re-architect their site to have ALL offered services available for more than a few hours at a time. From downtime of days, to on-and-off access through their mobile apps, to services unavailable at all hours of the day, via their "standard" web presence ... how much of this will Hadoop address?!?

    --
    == With enough Will Power, one could move mountains. With enough Brains, one would just leave them where they are ==
  7. general IT market fairly hot by peter303 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If I attend some public talk on a trendy subject its swarming with recruiters. Topics include no-sql, html5, mobile, etc. There seem to be at least ten job openings for everyone looking for something.

    1. Re:general IT market fairly hot by greg1104 · · Score: 1

      You didn't just describe the "general IT market"; what you're describing is commonly called the Web 2.0 Bubble. The same people who funded the .com bubble learned nothing from that, and tech company startups have repeating the same sort of overvalued silliness that leads to a bust again during the last few years. When we have ridiculous things like Groupon being "valued" at billions of dollars, of course there's a bunch of money hiring to build more companies in that space. All of that combined is still pretty small compared with the larger IT market though.

    2. Re:general IT market fairly hot by Prof.Phreak · · Score: 1

      I think it's bubble mindset. It was similar atmosphere around 1999 or so. Not sure how this time it's different... Just flashier with different key-phrases---all hoping to cash in on the massive growth that ``advertising dollars'' will be bringing in as the economy of the world unravels.

      --

      "If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy

    3. Re:general IT market fairly hot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll get off your lawn, old man.

      If you're a coder working as a hired gun, you shouldn't necessarily give a shit about market valuation. If Groupon is willing to throw you 6 figures to sling code, stfu, collect your check and get it while the getting is good.

      It floors me to see people whine about how coders are underpaid and then simultaneously lament the overvaluation of companies. Would you honestly mind working for a couple of years for them making a lot of scratch? Stop trying to act like you are on some kind of moral high ground. You want to be moral high ground? Write software in academia to solve really hard problems that have real effects on people's lives, while making significantly less money.

    4. Re:general IT market fairly hot by greg1104 · · Score: 1

      I was warning about what I see as high business risk around the current web+mobile boom (relative to traditional IT jobs), not making a moral commentary about either type of work. And I already work on open-source software that has real effects on people's lives, you cowardly troll.

  8. "Gurus" need not apply by pwizard2 · · Score: 2

    If I were a recruiter, I would automatically be wary of anyone who seriously refers to themselves as a "guru" of $language. Sure, you may be good at writing code and may know a particular library inside out, but anyone who calls themselves a guru probably has a very overinflated sense of their importance and actual skill level. These also tend to be the people who have the right buzzwords to get past HR filters and then proceed to bullshit their way through interviews.

    --
    "It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
    1. Re:"Gurus" need not apply by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Funny

      If I were a recruiter, I would automatically be wary of anyone who seriously refers to themselves as a "guru" of $language. Sure, you may be good at writing code and may know a particular library inside out, but anyone who calls themselves a guru probably has a very overinflated sense of their importance and actual skill level. These also tend to be the people who have the right buzzwords to get past HR filters and then proceed to bullshit their way through interviews.

      "It says in your resume you were part of the initial development team and wrote one of the first reference books on $language."

      "That is correct, I was also part of a team which worked to ensure cross-platform consistency and stability. I've also written tutorials in $language and developed several application examples which are included in the reference website."

      "Anything else you'd like to add?"

      "I also have chaired the past two Worldwide $language development conferences and am teaching an Introduction to $language at the local community college."

      "That all sounds very good, but what development experience do you have developing $language in $businessEnvironment?"

      "None, really. I think this will likely be the first instance of its kind using $language in $businessEnvironment."

      "Sorry to hear that. We're looking for someone with more experience. Thank you for your time, there's the door."

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:"Gurus" need not apply by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know you might laugh at this but I have heard a few times from employers were they have hired the very people who created the frameworks, software or languages they use only to find they don't have the business skills to cut it (such as Systems Analysis or simply the lack of ability to communicate with stakeholders properly). You might be able to write highly efficient and effective code but if you can't even get the client's requirements downpat then it's a waste.

    3. Re:"Gurus" need not apply by Aryden · · Score: 0

      I have a guy who can write the hell out of C# and C++ but the only way you get anything out of him is to give me the most detailed SOW you can possibly provide. You try to get him to talk to any stakeholder, process owner or direct management and he's as useless as tits on a bull.

    4. Re:"Gurus" need not apply by ackthpt · · Score: 2

      I have a guy who can write the hell out of C# and C++ but the only way you get anything out of him is to give me the most detailed SOW you can possibly provide. You try to get him to talk to any stakeholder, process owner or direct management and he's as useless as tits on a bull.

      Which is why you have a Systems Analyst as the go between, or at the very least, a Project Manager. Two shops I have worked in have cordoned off the developers from the users (including and particularly external customers.) Give the coder direction and let him/her go to it.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    5. Re:"Gurus" need not apply by roman_mir · · Score: 2

      which makes perfect sense. Just because you can make a lathe doesn't mean you have the necessary experience to build, say, an airplane turbofan engine, and if the company is looking for somebody who has turbofan experience, why would they rather hire the guy who built a lathe?

    6. Re:"Gurus" need not apply by corbettw · · Score: 1

      That's an apples to orangutans comparison. A better one would be, the company needs to hire someone who has built hinges using a lathe, why would they hire someone who's only experience is in designing and building lathes and teaching others to do so?

      The correct answer would be, they'd be fools not to hire that person.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    7. Re:"Gurus" need not apply by Aryden · · Score: 1

      And we do, which is why I have a job.

    8. Re:"Gurus" need not apply by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      No, it's your comparison that makes no sense. You are assuming that designing and building a language is a similar experience to designing and building some business specific application.

      I will not argue on a point that a person who is experienced and smart enough to design and build a language is likely a person who can build a business app, however this is not a person who has experience building business apps, and while he has experience building a language, this is not the experience that is required.

      Constructing a hammer (digging your own iron ore, smelting it, forming it, doing whatever a black smith would have to do, then making a wooden handle, etc.), this does not give an experience of using a hammer to build a house.

      Those are different things - a tool and some specific use of that tool, and building a lathe and a turbofan engine is a good enough comparison, because just as using a lathe while building an engine is required, it's not the only experience that is required.

      Designing an turbofan engine and making all parts fit and having the correct approach to that design and testing and installation procedures and whatever it takes to build a turbofan engine, is not the same requirement that goes into building a lathe.

      Same with a computer language and some use of a computer language.

    9. Re:"Gurus" need not apply by CadentOrange · · Score: 1

      That's an apples to orangutans comparison. A better one would be, the company needs to hire someone who has built hinges using a lathe, why would they hire someone who's only experience is in designing and building lathes and teaching others to do so?

      The correct answer would be, they'd be fools not to hire that person.

      They'd be fools to hire that person.

      Let's think about this for a minute. Do you see any downside to hiring somebody who is clearly overqualified for the job?

      How soon before this person finds the work uninteresting, gets bored, and then starts looking for a job elsewhere? If this person is over-qualified, that implies that they can (easily?) get a job that is more intellectually stimulating and better paying elsewhere. It's in everyone's interest that this over-qualified individual doesn't get hired.

    10. Re:"Gurus" need not apply by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi, I'm the Director of Guru. I completely disagree with your HTML5 comment about the AJAX JQuery XML call that brings back dynamic no-sql from the file system over the web.

    11. Re:"Gurus" need not apply by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not at all. If you need to choose between someone who has skills in $language and someone who has skills in $business_environment, go with the latter every time. Languages are (comparatively) easy to pick up.

  9. Novices and Experts? by clinko · · Score: 1

    Quoting the article: "The company (JP Morgan) has been working with Hadoop for more than three years"

    Then the article quotes the experts:

    "The good news is that Hadoop experts aren't born, they're trained. "I'm sure companies that train their workforces on Hadoop will derive lots of benefits," said Jeremy Lizt, VP of engineering at Rapleaf, in a recent interview. A data provider that has been using Hadoop for nearly four years, Rapleaf was among the earliest adopters."

    What a difference a few months makes...

    1. Re:Novices and Experts? by mjwalshe · · Score: 1

      woo 3 years so long LN Risk of the arms of our parent has been working with big data for over a decade - hmm must put that on my CV :-)

  10. from TFA... by Anarchduke · · Score: 1

    JP Morgan Chase has 25,000 IT employees, and it spends about $8 billion on IT each year--$4 billion on apps and $4 billion on infrastructure. The company has been working with Hadoop for more than three years

    Wow they must be super experts!!!

    Reading up on Hadoop...
    Stable release 0.20.204 / September 11, 2011; 57 days ago
    Preview release 0.21.0 / August 23, 2010; 14 months ago

    --
    who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
    1. Re:from TFA... by MyLongNickName · · Score: 1

      Also from wikipedia:

      On February 19, 2008, Yahoo! Inc. launched what it claimed was the world's largest Hadoop production application. The Yahoo! Search Webmap is a Hadoop application that runs on more than 10,000 core Linux cluster and produces data that is now used in every Yahoo! Web search query.[23]

      go figure that out...

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    2. Re:from TFA... by MyLongNickName · · Score: 1

      This might explain it a little better:

      link

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
  11. Big data in a small world? by bigsexyjoe · · Score: 1

    The thing I always wonder about Hadoop is how important can it get? It's only useful if you have too much data for an RDBMS, right? It seems like only JPMorgan and other giant companies could make use of it. Am I wrong?

    1. Re:Big data in a small world? by sexconker · · Score: 2

      The thing I always wonder about Hadoop is how important can it get? It's only useful if you have too much data for an RDBMS, right? It seems like only JPMorgan and other giant companies could make use of it. Am I wrong?

      There's no such thing as too much data for an RDBMS.
      There is such a thing as poor database planning and a shitty schema, though.

    2. Re:Big data in a small world? by mjwalshe · · Score: 1

      big publishers have a lot of documents - which is what my 20% project is at RBI is based on

    3. Re:Big data in a small world? by geoffrobinson · · Score: 1

      I believe it can be used to feed data into "Big Data" databases like Netezza, Vertica, etc.

      --
      Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
    4. Re:Big data in a small world? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no such thing as too much code to write in assembly language.
      There is such a thing as poor program design and a shitty structure though.

  12. As someone looking for a new job .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have no interest in doing programming of any sort, much less for html5 or mobile. SQL? Why yes I do have experience with that and over a decade in IT engineer/support/dev.....

    I'm guessing I'll be looked over.

    1. Re:As someone looking for a new job .... by sonamchauhan · · Score: 1

      At its core, 'programming' is you 'telling' computers what to do.

      Since you are doing 'IT support', 'SQL', etc. you are already 'programming'.

      The real problem is the Babel effect of multiple, heterogenous computer 'languages'. So why limit yourself? Pick one (say Perl, or Powershell) and then depend upon CPAN or PowerShell libraries to do the heavy lifting for you.

  13. So what you're saying is... by superdude72 · · Score: 1

    ...all us job-seekers who are already familar with several other languages and/or frameworks should read the Wikipedia page for Hadoop, bullshit our way past the HR person, then learn Hadoop on the job.

    1. Re:So what you're saying is... by corbettw · · Score: 2

      Sounds like the way I got my first Linux-based job in '95, except I used newsgroups instead of Wikipedia.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    2. Re:So what you're saying is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same here. But I used blow jobs instead of bullshit.

    3. Re:So what you're saying is... by Pionar · · Score: 1

      I remember when I was in college, I was taking a class on social informatics (basically, sociology for computer nerds) and I still remember the professor saying, once you know how to be a developer, you can learn any language that's useful. So if you're ever called in for an interview, spend the weekend before boning up on the language. You won't ever need to be an expert in a specific language if you already know the core concepts of programming.

  14. Jobs? by identity0 · · Score: 0

    Is it a bad sign that I saw 'Job' and thought 'Not another Steve Jobs story...'? :P

    At least the Jobs frenzy seems to be dying down lately.

  15. The Future by Tablizer · · Score: 2

    SQL is a query language, not a database implementation technology. In the future Hadoop-style engines will probably be wrapped by SQL such that it will be an implementation detail or choice, similar to the MyIsam versus InnoDB choice in MySql.

    I'm not saying this will make it a non-career, only that the career will morph to be more like that of an Oracle tuning specialist (who make good money still).

    1. Re:The Future by paitre · · Score: 1

      There already exist tools/frameworks to work with Hadoop and HBase using SQL :)

  16. Hadoop Is Easy: MapReduce + plumbing by curmudgeon99 · · Score: 1

    This should be a no brainer. Hadoop is merely MapReduce plus the plumbing to care and feed for it. All the various nodes and TaskTrackers, it's not that complicated at all. You can learn the basics in a night and master it in a month.

  17. IT needs apprenticeship with classes and real work by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    and NOT just CS classes.

    Take a tech school class load and add apprenticeships to it.

  18. "hot" trend? by superwiz · · Score: 1

    Dice search for C++ yields 17k hits. Dice search for Java yields 18k hits. Dice search for hadoop yields ~600 hits. Of the "direct company" ads (266), 18 from amazon. That's about 7% of all hadoop direct-company hits. Not a single one of them mentions an investment bank. I smell self-promotion.

    --
    Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
    1. Re:"hot" trend? by paitre · · Score: 1

      There are positions out there.

      Most of the folks that are hiring Hadoop and HBase folks are doing it on the sly.

      It's how I got my current job :)

    2. Re:"hot" trend? by Prof.Phreak · · Score: 1

      Many large corps have databases like Netezza (IBM) or Greenplum (EMC). To get better deals on their contracts, they'd like leverage of having an ``alternative''... Hadoop is often seen as that alternative (similar architecture, different mind-set) that can potentially be shoehorned into doing similar things that Netezza or Greenplum does---and not cost $bazillion dollars.

      --

      "If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy

  19. they're all tools by misfit815 · · Score: 1

    After 20 years in the industry, in various forms, I've come to this realization: C++, Java, Hadoop, Ruby on Rails, PHP... all these things are the airgun and socket wrench and grinder and welder and all the other tools in the garage. What matters is if you have experience working on BMW's or Kenworths or IndyCars or Harley-Davidsons. In other words, have you written accounting systems, industrial control systems, customer-facing websites, etc. I don't want to work for someone who's going to hire me because I'm a C# guru. I want to work for someone who recognizes that my background in financial systems fits their need on a loan processing project. Ok, not really, because that would bore me to tears, but you get my point.

    --
    Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. - John 14:6 NLT
    1. Re:they're all tools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very true. All languages are tools. Admittedly, I have my favourites to work with, but all languages are there to get things done, not for flag waving.

    2. Re:they're all tools by zachie · · Score: 1

      Absolutely. Too many people are overly worried about their expertise on some programming language, database, operating system, you name it. But who cares! These are just the tools you will use to do your thing. It is much more valuable to think in these terms: 'I know these languages, and I am particularly good with this one. That said, what actual programming language I end up coding in is just an implementation detail.' What you want to be valued for is your ability to solve such and such problems. Of course you are familiar with the tools you will require for that.

    3. Re:they're all tools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After 20 years in the industry, in various forms, I've come to this realization: C++, Java, Hadoop, Ruby on Rails, PHP... all these things are the airgun and socket wrench and grinder and welder and all the other tools in the garage. What matters is if you have experience working on BMW's or Kenworths or IndyCars or Harley-Davidsons. In other words, have you written accounting systems, industrial control systems, customer-facing websites, etc. I don't want to work for someone who's going to hire me because I'm a C# guru. I want to work for someone who recognizes that my background in financial systems fits their need on a loan processing project. Ok, not really, because that would bore me to tears, but you get my point.

      Well put, though I would argue that the people that fall for those tools are more tools than the tools themselves.

      I've been coding in assembly language and/or C for 30 years across a wide variety of platforms. I'll jump on Hadoop just as soon as I'm done with this gigantic eyeroll.

  20. Back to 1975? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "There are limits to what Hadoop can do, he said. When applications are transactional, when they demand low latency or rapid response times, or when there's lots of query complexity or concurrent workloads, JPMorgan Chase's IT organization still recommends using conventional relational databases"

    HHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

  21. Be were of Gurus before crying wolf by dbIII · · Score: 1

    I think we need a system called Loup so arrogant idiots will call themselves Loup Gurus.
    As the song goes:
    Oooh ooh Loupgarou gonna get ya, betta run to the river or ya gonna be dead.

  22. Handjob Guru? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't even want to know. I mean I do... but i don't.

  23. Why Hadoop? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We have PLENTY of good distributed cluster file systems already (PVFS2, GFS etc) that have better fail over, redundancy. It's just a matter of providing a MapReduce framework and an NoSQL layer to utilize, why should we need a specific file system to do such kind of work?

    The hype right now is because nobody else has implemented mapreduce or nosql on the other file systems?

    1. Re:Why Hadoop? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suspect there's one company that does mapreduce on some pretty big GFS clusters. Three guesses.
         

  24. Who finds it difficult? by Evets · · Score: 1

    Does anybody actually have a hard time learning Hadoop? In my experience its pretty easy to pick up and go with.

  25. Relevant: Taco Bell Programming by kampangptlk · · Score: 0
    --
    àà®à¥à®à¾à¦ààYà¥àà àà
  26. Can't have a career chasing hot skills by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem with the computer industry is that there's always something new that there's a shortage in. You can't have a career when the next hot thing comes along on a yearly schedule. All the people learning the last hot thing (wasn't it mobile apps?) are left in the dust when the next hot thing (mapreduce) comes along. By the time anyone learns enough about Hadoop to be productive, the next hot thing will come along. The insanity has to stop. As a business, you can't have a perpetual shortage of the next hot thing and get anyhing done. As a professional, you can't constantly chase the next hot thing.

  27. XCPU Plan9 by wirelesslayers · · Score: 1

    "Hadoop is a top-level Apache project being built and used by a global community of contributors, written in the Java programming language."

    No thanks, I will stay with my old friends v9fs, xget and xcpu =(

  28. Can you not train your people in Hadoop by ahoffer0 · · Score: 1

    Looking for gurus seems like a needle-in-a-haystack proposition. Would it not be easier to take some of your current employees and train them on Hadoop? Assuming your employees are homo sapiens, they could be trained to deploy, develop applications with, and maintain Hadoop installations.

    1. Re: Can you not train your people in Hadoop by u-235-sentinel · · Score: 1

      Looking for gurus seems like a needle-in-a-haystack proposition. Would it not be easier to take some of your current employees and train them on Hadoop? Assuming your employees are homo sapiens, they could be trained to deploy, develop applications with, and maintain Hadoop installations.

      It is interesting. I've been messing with Hadoop a bit before speaking to my employer about it. We were using Sensage at the time performing data mining which it was sorta able to handle (they have a SQL like environment available). But performing joins has never worked properly (one of a few peeves I've had about the product).

      About a year ago I went out to Hadoop training and built two small clusters of 10 data nodes each for work. Hive and some HBase running (and yes we can do joins in Hive). Pretty cool stuff.

      The last few months I've been contacted through linkedin by several recruiters asking if I'd be interested in an interview. They notice my Hadoop cert from Cloudera and it doesn't matter that I said I'm not currently looking. They seem to be very interested in finding people.

      Hadoop isn't the silver bullet for all big data needs however it does plug a big hole in my current job. Companies are willing to send people out for training (as in my case). But there definitely is a growing demand :-)

      --
      Has Comcast disconnected your Internet account? Same here. You can read about it at http://comcastissue.blogspot.com