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With Troop Drawdown, IT Looks To Hire More Vets
Lucas123 writes "The military's a great place to learn how to kill people and break things, but many also consider it one of the best training grounds for high-tech skills. 'If you're working on a ship or a plane or tank, you've got responsibility for large, complex, extremely expensive equipment run by highly sophisticated IT platforms and software,' said Mike Brown, senior director of talent acquisition at Siemens. But, just how well do military tech skills translate to private-sector IT? Computerworld spoke to veterans to find out just what they learned during their tours of duty and how hard it was to transition to the civilian workforce."
I like to brag that, when I walk into the server room, Danger Zone starts blaring in the background.
My life in this hell-hole is extreme. Can't tell you how many times a server blade has nicked me. We go through bandages like coffee at Google around here!
We've hired a few of these folks. Technical skills tend to be shallow, but we are willing to train the right candidate. Worse is their yes man attitude. You can't get these guys to provide any useful input, when they think their input might conflict with that from somebody "above them". It doesn't seem like these guys can overcome that part of their military training.
Not doing at least 20 years is a questionable call since you can retire after that, but going contract after you eject (early or late) is a good way to leverage any skillset you acquire.
Find a system that will outlive you (the first folks to work on C-130s are now long dead!) and get in as early as possible.
I've never met anyone who regretted serving until retirement, self included.
If you don't like your job, crosstrain. If you don't like your service, get smart and go Air Force. :)
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
In our Biology department we have a high end confocal microscope. This is a very expensive, sophisticated and complicated microscope with complex optical, mechanical, and control systems. The technician who services it and keeps it running was a sonar technician in a submarine for many years before he got a job working on microscopes. He is very good - logical, careful, and responsible. Obviously this is a small sample size but if his training in the navy has anything to do with his performance in his current job then this is a nice example of military training actually translating well into a civilian technology position.
Military logistics is some of the most advanced out there.
When I was working shipping at Dell I would say almost all of the logistics management was ex-military. At least all the useful ones were ex-military.
FedEx being another good example of military logistics making its way to the civilian world.
Low wages probably won't discourage ex-military, they are rather used to it.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
of military veterans in IT my experience is limited to managers or techies, all can vary wildly.
the manager I had at one company was from the navy. not very intelligent but he knew enough about how to lead a team
that he could tell when we needed help and he knew when to stay out of the way. great guy to work with.
but the helpdesk manager im told was a complete asshole. he alientated the seasoned pro's by treating them like kids
and before we knew it, they had all quit.
the NOC tech i work with now is coming out of retirement from the airforce. hes not brilliant by any stretch, and he doesnt appear motivated to
any great feats of knowlege. probably a bad example
the guy we just promoted is from the army. he isnt smart, and he chews up most of our time asking questions about code, but hes at least very motivated
to learn. i guess thats a plus.
Good people go to bed earlier.
During the tech bubble burst of 2002, I went from being a full time Perl programmer to working part-time at a super market in the meat section. One of my coworkers was a tech lead in the Army working on avionics in attack helicopters. When the attack copter wings were cut, he left with them, only to discover his high-tech skills in attack helicopter avionics were completely useless in the private sector. Clearly advanced technology, clearly without a direct compliment in the civilian world.
I eventually found another Perl/PHP job, but as far as I know hes still at the super market. So I think it really depends on what you're high tech skills are, as to how successfully you can make the transition.
s. The technician who services it and keeps it running was a sonar technician in a submarine for many years before he got a job working on microscopes. He is very good - logical, careful, and responsible.
I've known couple others that been in the sub service and they are very good. Getting sub service experience means they had to pass courses and examinations, besides weeding out nutzoids they also want best techie talent on board when you are weeks (months?) under the water.
mfwright@batnet.com
I'm not saying that everyone who learns IT skills in the military is awesome, but the ones I've met have been.
In the end you need to carefully examine all job candidates, even ex-military. My experience (I am a vet) is that there are a few saints, a few monsters, and a vast middle of decent but flawed people, just like the general populace.
What is common between the /. editorial department & the USPTO? They don't bother to check what they rubber-stamp :S
The post links to the last page of the article instead of the first.
Submariners tend to be very good on the average. It comes down to the fact that they live in roughly a 1000' long steel pipe under water with a nuclear reactor, high explosives, and on SSBNs a hundred plus nuclear war heads sitting on 24 big honking rockets. Mistakes are very costly in that environment :)
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
I'm a prior Army Officer that has transitioned into the civilian workforce. The Army taught me many things, but the primary benefit was the amount of money the Army was willing to risk on me. Not many people can say that their first job out of college was managing 55 people and 8 million dollars in physical assets. Fortunately I did very well and had more command positions after with ever increasing responsibilities. I have what I consider to be an above average intelligence, but I'm certainly not anything special (certainly not genius level, I've met geniuses, I can't understand half of what to them is simple). I've faced combat and been under extreme pressure situations. I currently work in programming and find it moderately boring and frustrating with almost no correlation to my military service. Currently I'm working on getting back into some sort of operational role.
The point is, just because their military does not mean they will be uniquely gifted to do a job. The talent to shut up and listen I have found is what differentiates the good from the bad.
If there is no God then free will is an illusion.
I have to agree. Submarine sailors often are more technically inclined and generally smarter than your average sailor as they had to qualify for those posts. From what I remember these sailors are often recruited to be placed on submarines from the start. Also there are mental aspects of being underwater for months on end as well as living under an unconventional daily cycle.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
When you hire someone you always look at their past job history to determine if the person is going to work well in your organization.
This is a standard practice, you would be a moron not to do that.
Yes, I will more likely higher someone with military background vs someone with a fast food background.
I guess you would be technically correct, discrimination happens, but it is not illegal unless the discrimination is based on something the individual cannot change, such as their skin color or place of birth.
Remember, you can always join up, serve your country for a few years and when you get out you too can enjoy the perks of being ex-military if it is that big of a deal for you.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
Two things.. You are much less likely to experience work place violence from a Vet. 'Nother thing. I was Navy Air Traffic Controller, USS Theodore Roosevelt (Carrier).. Just curious, how do you define high-stress? Can't print?
low wages, check. no respect from superiors, check. hazardous working conditions, check. surly attitudes, check. sounds like it would make sense. plus it would discourage people from attacking your it folks when the server goes down. (would YOU want to complain about slow download speeds to your IT guy if you knew he was an ex-green beret with PTSD?)
I served 5 years, USN, I would agree with this. A non-perfect way to determine is what they went in for, and how long they stayed. First couple of years, especially if your a grease monkey or infantry type your pretty jaded for the first 3-4 years. Your comments mostly apply to below E-5. The gear that I used (Air Traffic Control) was built in 1973, same year I was born. Ash trays were part of the actual radar gear, so as far as new tech.. Besides some isolated pockets, it's WAY behind. Side note: Loading the ATC software was aluminum punch tape on a spool. So accurate on automated landings, that they had to put in a deviation to keep tail hooks from hitting the exact same spot on the flight deck every time.
You're an idiot. Our network engineer, telecom guy, and email admins are all ex-military and not only are they all above average intelligence but their disciple and calmness under stress are all great advantages working in a small IT group with fairly significant expectations from the business.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
I served on Teddy a long long time ago as a Desert Storm Vet. Great ship, great crew and although a different era, had no issue transitioning from working in the Reactor as a MM to IT life. As the above poster noted, in the military you learn to deal with stress in a calm = success fashion. No amount of issue down time can equate to life a threatening event.
High stress? Are you serious?
IT 'stress' is a walk in the park in gentle spring sunshine after a couple of years in the military - and that's *without* spending any time in a combat zone.
Well, no sub is even close to being 1000' long.... ;)
But an oft overlooked factor is the small size of the crews. We operated my weapons system (sixteen Tridents and their control, launching, testing and support equipment) with just eighteen people. There was just no room for anyone that wasn't at least above average. The Missile Techs (which generally came from the bottom third of the rankings in school) even called themselves the "scum of the cream".
The schools were brutal. When I attended SWSEA, the drop rate (I.E. people kicked out of the school) *averaged* thirty percent. My class started with 18 people, and graduated with 12. I was the only person in the class who had never been 'dropped back' (failed a block, and been transferred to a class behind you in the cycle to repeat it), and with a 99.988 average was the *number two* man in the class. Of the 18 people I started with, only 7 of us eventually completed the school and graduated.
You mean Mr. Government-is-bad-unless-it's-mine Paul? Who thinks that government should get out of our lives, but who is strongly anti-abortion? Who wants to eliminate legal tender and let "the market decide" what currencies we're going to use? Who wants to eliminate basically all government agencies, under the premise that businesses will regulate themselves (like the banking industry did), and if some factory causes the Cuyahoga River to self-ignite again, we'll let the "market punish them?"
Wouldn't it be smarter to reward the troops with decent employment, instead of hiring them into mind-numbing dead end jobs? Besides, I'm slightly worried about hiring people who are completely comfortable with guns in the workplace into high-stress positions.
When you are talking about vets or people in the service, people who have actually had to perform professionally and methodically while other people are actually trying to fucking kill you with bullets or IEDs, don't call the nuances of cubicle politics and IT services "high-stress positions." As someone who has done tier II/III IT support getting angry calls at 3AM, yeah, it's stressing... like any other job with a lot responsibilities.
But to call it "high-stressing" specially when referring to military vets (of any country), wondering whether they can keep their cool in the face of your typical office monkey business, that's a little self-masturbatory, e-tarded and disturbing no matter how you cut it.