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How Litigation Only Spurred On P2P File Sharing

littlekorea writes "The growth in peer-to-peer file sharing surged in response to efforts by the content industry to litigate over the past decade, according to a new study by a researcher at Melbourne's Monash University. Dr Rebecca Giblin explains why 'physical world' assumptions don't apply to the online world."

11 of 140 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Correlation does not equal causation by Aguazul · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Correlation does not exclude causation either.

  2. Privilege of Prosecution. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Since when does someone take it upon theirselves to demand royalties from people that trade movies by lending their discs over Sneakernet?

    Shut these bums down. They don't make a living or contribute to the quality of life to others around them other than to exact fines and fees with the same precision as the Zetas and IRS.

    1. Re:Privilege of Prosecution. by realityimpaired · · Score: 5, Informative

      Because people lending (which is different to whats going on here) over "sneakernet" doesn't equate to tens of thousands of people having their own copy in only a few hours.

      *shrugs* it takes about 10 minutes for me to transfer an ISO to my hard drive, stripping the region coding as I do it, and then about 30 minutes to transcode that ISO into an MKV file that includes all of the soundtracks and subtitle information. If I'm not worried about the storage space, I can skip the second step. With a reasonably fast Internet connection, it *could* equate to tens of thousands of people having their own copy in only a few hours, and the main difference between what I'm doing and downloading it off the Internet is that instead of downloading it from a host that might actually be owned by the content holder, I'm creating my own digital copy of it. That I don't then upload it to the Internet is mostly because I can't be bothered to do so, because I don't really care about that side of things. I am digitizing movies so that I don't have to devote a large amount of shelf space to their storage, not because I believe the information wants to be free.

      You don't seriously think that the people doing the actual ripping/uploading (who are the people that the industry should *really* be going after) are *buying* dvd's, though, do you? All of the movies I rip, I own (physical copies and everything, just not kept in my living room), but most of the people who actually do the ripping/uploading are getting the movies from some form of sneakernet. Either they work at a video store and have physical access to the DVD before it's released, or they work in a theatre as a projectionist or something, and can rip the DVD while it's still in theatres, or they have a friend who does the above and gets the DVD for them. Most of them are not going to retail outlets and actually *buying* the DVD so that they can rip it.

    2. Re:Privilege of Prosecution. by drakken33 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I don't want to sound picky but my local theatre doesn't use DVDs for it's digital content. It uses heavily DRM'd files supplied on a portable HDD or beamed in via satellite. The keys are sent separately as and when needed and expire in anything from a week or more. The files can be 200GB+. I'm not saying it's impossible to get a digital copy from a theatre but it's not easy.

      --
      Andy.
    3. Re:Privilege of Prosecution. by Runaway1956 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Uhhhh - what exactly does it matter if tens of thousands get their copies in a few hours, or if it takes ten or twelve days? The end result is precisely the same - everyone who really wants a copy will get one.

      Oh - you may object that "Well, SOME people won't want a copy badly enough to put the wear on their sneakers! P2P actually ENCOURAGES people to make copies." And, I would say "Bullshit!" My wife and sisters had extensive libraries before any of them had access to internet. One would rent a movie, and make two, six, or twelve copies, depending on who they thought the movie would appeal to. I'm not sure that I could load out a tractor trailer with all their stuff, but I could most certainly load two smaller local delivery trucks. Shelves and shelves, loaded with old VCR movies.

      In short - the time involved makes no difference at all. If anything, the internet has saved me from further inundation by VCR, CD, and DVD recordings. Now, everything is stored on hard drive! Imagine that - entire libraries, stored on a hard drive! I love it!

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    4. Re:Privilege of Prosecution. by Kjella · · Score: 5, Informative

      And individually watermarked and tamper-proofed, if it did happen they'll know exactly when and where. I've never heard of anyone actually getting a raw 4k rip from these things, if they did I'm sure it'd come to halt very soon. Besides, almost nobody can watch it - I guess the people with 30" displays could get 1440p but 4k televisions and projectors practically don't exist. With the price of 4k equipment you might as well license yourself as a cinema too, won't be that much more expensive. Size would be an issue too, I think for the last of the LotR movies it was 900GB, not sure about that. They're going out practically uncompressed, no artifacting there.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  3. Learned about P2P from RIAA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I learned that this existed and that you could pirate stuff from all the controversy the RIAA and MPAA have done. If they never got sue happy and had absolute no morals, I probably wouldn't even know you could do this.

    1. Re:Learned about P2P from RIAA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      :O Are you aware at least, that there's porn on the internet, too?

  4. Re:Correlation does not equal causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In fact, the only thing observable in the world is correlation. Causation exists only in models and that model could be supported by observed correlation.

  5. Isn't economics requires? by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Doesn't anyone take economics anymore?
    Every product has a price that is based on supply and demand.
    Digital media once created has a verry high supply ability. Thus it's cost is lowered. Digital content providers are charging more then what supply and demand curve intercection states. And legal controls that are trying to maintain this off balance. So... Blackmarkets are naturally formed to provide goods at their actual costs.

    This is the same thing with drugs, unpasturized milk, under the counter workers...

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  6. Re:All in a bucket by geoskd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The article reads like an undergraduate who wants to write a shit-kicking thesis and is really oooh excited about things but has entirely failed to do anything more than throw a few disjointed ideas in a bucket. It is peppered with lines that sound good but don't stand up to a couple of seconds examination: " So once the Napster litigation made P2P programmers aware of the rules about knowledge and control, they simply coded Napster's successors to eliminate them." I mean WHAT? Programmers coded out rules of "knowledge and control"???? No, the rules of law on knowledge and control exist independently in jurisprudence. How do you "code out" something that's entirely outwith software? Nonsense.

    I understood perfectly what the author was writing about in reference to knowledge and control.

    Specifically, in regards to knowledge: The authors of Kazaa and Napster had the means, as a consequence of the design of their systems, to know what was being transmitted, by whom, and to whom it was going. This constituted knowledge of their customers actions. Most modern P2P software has no central server and no communications between the users of the software and the authors of the software. In short, the authors have no idea who is using their software, where they got it from, or what they are using it for. More importantly: they have no practical way of knowing.

    Control is even easier to understand in this context. Napster and Kazaa relied on a central server to provide the service. These services had the ability to control what was being listed, or transmitted using their software. By virtue of their licensing, they had the ability to control who even used it. P2P eliminated almost all central control by way of servers, and the open source licensing ensured that anyone could use the software regardless of their intent. This means that even if the makers of xyz P2P software wanted to halt its use entirely, they would be legally (and logistically) incapable of doing so. They no longer have any practical control over their software, its users, or how they use it.

    And at the heart of it, the article offers no causative argument that litigation spurred on file sharing. At best it observes that file sharing increased in the era after litigation but it falls down entirely in showing any causation rather than correlation. There are other daft arguments about the Supreme Court making laws: it doesn't, de Tocqueville et al were rather insistent it couldn't; rather its interpretation of law clarifies the law already in place, which show the author is floundering on the subject matter.

    The article made a fairly persuasive argument about the likely underlying reasons for growth of online piracy *in spite* of the massive legal efforts of the **AA organizations. The articles unstated assumption is, that when faced with and defeated by such a large scale legal assault, the pervasiveness of piracy should have decreased. instead, as we know it increased. The article then provides a very persuasive explanation for the reasons why this legal assault failed. In the past many other similar assaults on piracy have succeeded. You don't see a whole lot of counterfeit goods in this country because of the reasons listed in the article. Online piracy is rampant however.

    Weak.

    Better than your response which was weak and trollish.

    -=Geoskd

    --
    I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted