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NYPD Dismantling Occupy Wall Street Encampment
First time accepted submitter Red_Chaos1 was the first to write with news that, as of around 06:30 UTC, the NYPD appears to have begun removing the encampment of Occupy Wall Street. At 06:34 UTC the Mayor's office issued a tweet declaring: "Occupants of Zuccotti should temporarily leave and remove tents and tarps. Protesters can return after the park is cleared." Around 07:15 UTC the first of several large dumpsters were deposited and the police began throwing tents and other debris into it. Reports also indicate that a Long Range Acoustic Device is on the premises. The police are using helicopters and physical barriers to prevent news coverage, but the Occupiers are streaming the events (alternative stream; #occupywallstreet on irc.indymedia.org is also rather active for those who don't fancy flash or twitter.) As of 09:15 or so, the situation according to those near NYC is that the park has more or less been cleared.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Throwing tents into dumpsters, without issuing a 'vacate or your property is forfeit' order seems like a clear violation to a non-lawyer.
Lawyers? Or have I simply missed something requiring the demonstrators to disperse?
The protesters made some good points:
Chrony Capitalism coupled with inflation really has created a system where money comes out of the void, shoots to the top and by the very existence of that new money being created causes the money other people hold to decline in value.
Wall Street without a doubt orchestrated the creation of this system.
HOWEVER Wall Street people are the wrong ones to protest. Companies exist to make money by whatever means legal, and in some cases not legal. The bottom line is companies exist to make money. You invest in whatever company is most capable of doing that.
The problem lies in chronyism. A company that participates in chronyism isn't doing anything wrong, it's a means to an end in the companies goal of accumulating money. The corrupt government playing ball with chronies on the other hand IS doing something wrong.
Our government representatives are supposed to represent the people. When they begin to self-serve instead of serve the people they are doing something wrong.
By protesting Wall Street they're sending the message they don't want anyone to make money. If they were to "occupy the mall" instead and focus all of their energies and talent into figuring out the mechanics of every bribe, kick-back, vote trade, intimidation tactic, threat and dishonest move of every politician in Washington and create something akin to Wikipedia devoted specifically to those ends with as much evidence as possible we would be putting the real problem back in check. Unfortunately our three branch balance of power is out of balance, I blame the executive and legislative branches for pushing it out of balance and I blame the judicial branch for actively endorsing the shift in balance.
I don't get an actual feeling the OWSers are motived to fix things. I get a sense of "I'm fucking with you because I can" and I get the feeling they're pushing for a fascist communist/socialist shift. As with every large movement it's obviously not an across the board thing, but I do feel that it's the general consensus, and I'm also starting to suspect outside driving forces, in much the same way the Egyptian government had paid pro-government protesters to clash with the grass-roots protesters some time back. With the OWS crowd they wouldn't need more than a couple of key charismatic people placed in each camp.
In short theres a real problem that needs fixing, but I feel the motive of the protesters is to insert an agenda instead of actually fixing the problem.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
I've noticed that NYC has had the subtle guise of supporting them but selectively enforcing the law. Taking away the generators when it was *really* cold outside because they were a "fire hazard" was one of the standout things that comes to mind. I don't think anyone in the NYC government thought it would last as long as it already has and that these simple actions would break them.
Now that they're dismantling the camps, we'll have to wait and see whether or not the city will actually "let them back in" as they've said they will. Personally I doubt it, but the people who are organizing this thing seem to have their heads on straight.
Or if they do, I bet you the NYPD will make changes to the area to make it more inhospitable, and then "let them back in" to a much more highly controlled environment. I'm cynical as you can tell, because the government hasn't shown any kind of response that promotes trust.
Honestly, we haven't seen protests on this scale or for this duration since the Vietnam War. The difference is that we're in the age of social media - a time when any citizen can capture National Guard soldiers shooting at unarmed protestors, or police pepper spraying peaceful (but civilly disobedient) people. The city knows that it's walking a very fine line and if they take a misstep they're going to make things far, far worse for them.
I knew this would happen eventually at NYC - this didn't surprise me at all. What *did* surprise me was closing the airspace to news helicopters and shutting down all but 1 subway line as well as a major bridge. *That* honestly frightens me very much.
Yes, the bridges and subways are "choke points". They shut the bridges down after 9/11 similarly.
The amazing thing - and one of the reasons I'm so very appreciative to be in my mid-20s during the digital age - is that despite all traditional news media being cut out there's citizen journalists on the ground now recording video and streaming it live to the Internet.
I feel a paradoxically equal amount of pride and revulsion at being an American tonight.
There's been an increasing amount of attempt at regulating the internet, there are major internet "choke points" at telecom switching networks, and at ISPs, so I share your concern. I'm hoping the work going on into distributed DNS systems outside of governmental control get completed and grow to be robust and popular, which should help some -- but there isn't a good solution for "last mile" connectivity yet, and that will be the next major concern to try to figure out.
Seems a bit excessive and somewhat dubious.
I don't want to Godwin this thread - however, it seems that the NYPD has seized the 5000+ book donated library, and thrown all those books in a dumpster.
Excessive is an understatement
You can never know everything, and part of what you do know will always be wrong. Perhaps even the most important part.
Neither was nazi germany all that bad, as long as you weren't on the list. That is why such regimes can continue to exist, because the majority isn't on the list and it is very unhuman (but very human) to risk getting on a list for someone else who is on a list.
That is why real heroes, like the people of Urk (fairly strict christians who had no real love or hate for jews but disliked people telling them what to do with a passion) are so fucking rare. It takes balls of steels to risk your safety for someone else. The fast majority did not. Ich habe es nicht gewust really means, I spend all my time looking the other way so it wouldn't happen to me.
And the US has been caught out many many times recently and in the past in making people disappear. Check all the foreign detainment camps operated by the CIA. It is not even a secret anymore, except by those like you who choose to look the other way.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Was following this until feed gave out. Press were barred because part of the plan is to take all the equipment of all the arrested people and throw it into compacting dump trucks. Concealing this little detail failed, because every other person in NYC has a cell phone that can record video, and their attempts to block everyone on ground level were, shall we say, not fully thought through. Garbage truck drivers don't have the same "us vs. them" mentality of police officers, less discipline, and even less threat assessment training.
It's an action that is (i) probably going to be extremely effective at preventing quite a lot of people from assembling anywhere again for more than eight hours, and (ii) should make every Libertarian brain go splodey.They're going to be hard pressed to reconcile "Taser the Hippies" and "Personal Property is SACRED" if ever this little detail gets widespread attention.
If opportunity came disguised as temptation, one knock would be enough.
3^2 * 67^1 * 977^1
The main difference between China and the US is that the Chinese economy is growing.
The main difference between the Soviet Union and the US was that the SU had social security.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Yes, clearly if they're not the very most abused people on earth, they have no right to complain about anything at all. So what''s your excuse?
Not to mention there is a good reason for the hatred directed at the 1%. What we have in the USA is a system so corrupted by money the ones at the top literally have a "heads I win, tails you lose" situation where it is damned near impossible for them NOT to become ever richer and more powerful.
You have their lobbyists directly writing the tax laws so you get situations like GE that got several billion BACK instead of paying taxes, even while they were offshoring good jobs to India as fast as they could close the plants (we lost 21,000 FACTORIES in just the last decade folks, anybody think that level of gutting is sustainable?) and corps like Google get to pay a pittance compared to profits thanks to the Double dutch and Irish tax scam, aka the Irish whip, you have those at the top able to use Wall street like Las Vegas and then if they lose are able to get the house in the form of the government give them the money (your money) back in the form of "too big to fail", budgets are written with the "help" of those who are getting the money, hell I could go on all day.
The American people say they want an end to the wars and they ignore you, say they don't want kids lives ruined by being thrown in prison for pot and they ignore you, say we don't want to send billions overseas in the form of government handouts when so many of our people are hurting and they ignore you, write petitions spelling out clearly what we want and they ignore you, tell them we want the top 1% to actually pay their fair share instead of getting more tax dodges codified and they ignore you, say we want the money being handed to illegals stopped and our border secured and they ignore you.
Wise men once stood up against taxation without representation and fought and gained a nation for themselves. Well what do you think you have now folks? When even Colbert makes jokes about how you "need to stop smoking wacky tobaccky and give that money to a super packy" so you can bribe your own elected officials just like the corporations do, well what the hell is the difference between us and any third world banana republic? your vote certainly don't mean shit as they simply replace one bribed crook with another, thanks to the ownership of the MSM by only 7 multinationals your protests won't be heard or will be made to look like fools, so what is the difference?
It is THIS that the OWS movement is about although frankly i don't think it will work. i think the only way to fix a truly corrupted system is to replace and when the 1% have gutted this country enough and we are looking at Germany 32 levels of unemployment while the right wing guts every safety net they can we'll be looking at our very own Arab Spring. Well it was nice while it lasted but nothing lasts forever and the elite 1% have taken a big old shit in the punchbowl that is democracy, no point in trying to dip around it, time to throw it out and start again.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Lets try rephrasing that.
The main difference between the Soviet Union and the US was that the US (at the time) was an improving country, whereas the SU was content to stand still or even decline.
The main difference between the US and China today is that the China is an improving country, whereas the US is content to stand still or even decline.
The Soviet Union eventually became so rotten and decayed that it collapsed from within.
May the Maths Be with you!
Americans are completely and utterly blind to the mis-deeds of their politicians as well as the abuse of their rights by said politiciams
Not at all. Americans as individuals are mostly POWERLESS to do anything about the misdeeds.
About the only power they have is where they spend their money. And with modern cell phones - the citizens could be empowered.
1) The Armed forces over in Afghanistan are taking pictures of people and using facial recognition to ID people. You can't choose to deal/not deal with someone due to race/religion/sex but if they happen to to work for Gold-Man Sacks....
2) The cameras on portable devices can read UPC codes and hold SQL databases. Compare the UPC code to a database of policies of the firm that makes them - that way if your thing is "is there an active boycott" because you support unions - you can make a different choice or even select that product over others.
3) Note how the rich and powerful are wanting people to do "code enforcement" - the Texas citizen makes reports of illegal car parking as an example. Take the list of the donors to the political parties and encourage citizens to take the cell phones to the political donors properties and compare the condition of the home to the 800+ page 'building code violation' ordinances. (This one is more about showing how the politically connected get special treatment, finding fraud and abuse in the political donation system and pushing for campaign reform.)
I had the opportunity of visiting occupy wall st. a couple of weeks ago for a couple of hours. I don't claim that this makes me some sort of deep expert, but I did get to see it and formed a few impressions.
First impressions were of Manhattan, which I had never visited before. Frankly, my impressions were that the place is a police state. I visited areas of Manhattan far away from #occupy, and there's pretty much a copy on ever street corner. There are also signs everywhere about how you are under video surveillance by the police. When I took the Staten Island Ferry into Battery Park, it was escorted by a literal gun boat. Now, I'm a Southern Boy, and I found myself thinking ... "okay, if I were in Beijing or even London, I wouldn't be surprised. But this is America! What the hell is going on in this place?" It seems to me that New Yorkers have traded there "eternal liberties" for "termporary safety", and they need to take them back.
So, I more or less wandered into #occupy without even knowing that that was where I was heading. Everyone could certainly tell that this old, fat, tired, bald guy with bad clothes was from out of town, but everybody was very courteous to me and eager to tell me about their particular issue(s). Emphasis on their particular and the (s), because there was not one, unified issue driving the place unless it was the feeling that "those in power aren't listening to us." I was approached by people whose primary concern was corporate power, tax reform, fracking, and gay rights in the hour or so I was there.
If I thought the police presence in Manhattan was over the top, around Zuchotti park it was completely over the top. I'm talking cops every ten feet, a portable observation tower with people-tracking radar ... you name it. But, here's the thing. So, near the kitchen, there's a sign that says, "X00 people have been arrested since #occupy began. There will be a meeting to discuss legal strategy at 8:00PM." And, 10 feet from the sign, and 20 feet from a cop, there's a couple of guys smoking pot right in front of God and everybody. Good old southern country boy that I am, all I can think is, "we at least closed the barn door when we did that!" I also wondered, were those umpteen-hundred protesters arrested being persecuted for "sticking it to the man", or were they arrested for smoking pot in front of a cop? Probably impossible to sort out.
So, I hung around for a while, sang a few Bob Dylan and Woody Guthrie songs, grabbed a half-dozen copies of the "Occupy Wall Street Times", and left." All in all, an interesting experience, and the Occupy Wall Street Times might be worth something someday if this turns out to be the start of an "Arab Spring" kind of movement in the US (although I doubt it.)
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
"Americans are completely and utterly blind to the mis-deeds of their politicians as well as the abuse of their rights by said politiciams."(sic)
Yes that is why the new coverage is filled about protesters on both sides Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street. And whenever a politician is caught breaking the law it is posted everywhere.
Ever sense the Nixon Administration the Americans have became obsesses with the mis-deeds of their politicians. Just check out a liberal news source and a conservative new source and you get a good portion of the misdeeds that are done.
The problem isn't as much that we are blind, we are just overexposed and have a hard time really knowing the difference between a president having an extra marital affair or authorizing an illegal wiretap.
The problem is about 50% of the population has below average intelligence, and they are getting more and more information crammed into their heads and a lot of people cannot or don't want to stop the see the big picture and hop onto a small number of sources as the absolute truth while the rest if gives a conflicting message is seen as an utter lie. Debating a middle ground will often get you places as being one of those nazi right winger conservative bible thumping republicans, or those communist left wingers liberal hippy democrats. Just because they will not open their minds to understand both view points and really step back and see their good points and their bad ones.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.