Slashdot Mirror


Has Apple Made Programmers Cool?

An anonymous reader writes "CNET suggests that Apple has totally changed the general public's perception of programmers: It's now suddenly cool to code. No matter what platform you're on. They argue that App Store millionaire success stories have 'turned a whole generation of geek coders from social misfits into superheroes.' Apparently, gone are the days when a programmer was the last person you wanted to talk to at a party: 'Mention to someone that you make apps and their interest will pick up instantly. This is an astonishing change from what a programmer in the '80s could have expected in reaction to their job description.' The App Store millionaires, or 'Appillionaires,' may have done all of us programmers a huge favor. Programming is now socially acceptable: 'Previous generations strapped on electric guitars and fought for super-stardom in sweaty dive bars, but today's youth boot up Xcode on their MacBook Pros.'"

32 of 378 comments (clear)

  1. No, they haven't by CmdrPony · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The only reason for the change is that more socially skilled persons have started using computers at an young age, and continued doing so (and even started programming) while still maintaining their social skills. Don't worry - if you were socially awkward before, you're still as uncool as you even were.

    One of the reasons is also that geeks in general don't understand good manners. They view down to people with other interests (how many times have you read here on Slashdot some rants about how stupid people are because they don't know everything about computers), go on and on about their own interests (computers, programming, RPG games..) without even thinking if the other side is interested to talk about that. Geeks cannot grasp the concept of being and acting friendly to other people. It doesn't make only you feel awkward - it makes the other side feel awkward too.

    I have enjoyed programming since I was 7-8 years old. I still kind of do. However, it has never been my whole life. There's one great thing growing up in computer generations. Since I turned 20, I've been traveling the world while working on the side. Since all I need for my work is a computer and an internet access, I can do it on the road. Along the way I've met lots of interesting people (and especially girls) who I've all told to that I do programming for a living and it's also how I can travel around the world and live on the road. If anything, that has made people interested. And I really don't myself as an uncool guy, nor do all the women I've met along.

    Like it or not, social skills are.. well, skills. If you suck at them, you should try to improve them any way you can. It's not that other people think programmers are uncool, it just comes from the fact that those people often cannot act socially. If an otherwise social and successful person tells he likes programming, does anyone care? No. It's just a matter of being social and not having the only interest in your life be programming.

    1. Re:No, they haven't by Hazel+Bergeron · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Along the way I've met lots of interesting people (and especially girls) who I've all told to that I do programming for a living and it's also how I can travel around the world and live on the road. If anything, that has made people interested. And I really don't myself as an uncool guy, nor do all the women I've met along.

      If you use phrases of adolescent self-promotion such as "especially girls" and "all the women I've met", you're uncool.

    2. Re:No, they haven't by PaladinAlpha · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If talking about programming isn't cool, and programming is what you do (i.e. not something your daddy sent you to school for to cash in on) then you're simply talking to the wrong people. I don't care if programming is 'cool.' I understand that a lot of people aren't interested in software development, or algorithms, or computer science proper. Those people are uninteresting to me, just as I am uninteresting to them. I've got better things to do than make small talk.

      Note that 'programming' is kind of like 'engineering' in that it covers a lot of smaller specific interests; my fiance knows little of code, but my keen interest in efficient model design and algorithmic data encapsulation fits firmly parallel her own interests (pursuing a PhD in economics). The opinions of the MBAs or the geologists or the lit crits are of relatively little importance to me.

      I guess in a way it's a lot like GNU/Linux. The year of Linux on the desktop isn't here, and may never be here, and it doesn't matter, because I can still use it just fine. Hell, it's better than that because being open source it cannot disappear, and so long as there is a single person who knows a bit of code who likes it, it will see continued development. Do you see the parallel? I may never be a hit at parties given by people that are uninteresting to me, but it doesn't matter, because I love what I do, I do it well, and it's important to society at large, so I'll always be able to do it. I don't feel the need to be 'cool' and accrue superficial connections with people that I won't learn anything from and whom won't learn anything from me, simply because we're headed in different directions.

      What I'm saying is 'cool' means 'form instead of function', and I suppose in that sense, yes, Apple has made programmers 'cool.'

    3. Re:No, they haven't by FyRE666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It hasn't made programming cool, it has made some of the jobs based around programming appear cooler. If someone asks what you do and you reply that you're a cobol programmer woring for a mortgage company, it's hardly likely to make you seem like the coolest guy in the room. However, if you mention that you write apps for phones, or Facebook, or write games then it's likely to seem more interesting. People can relate to it as they will be using the devices and services you help create content for.

      There's also a crossover now, with people who put together a Powerpoint presentation, or mark up an HTML page considering themselves programmers.

    4. Re:No, they haven't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yep, it's cool nowadays to say "All the men I've had sex with."

    5. Re:No, they haven't by sdk4777 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Programmers made Apple cool.

    6. Re:No, they haven't by LordNacho · · Score: 5, Insightful

      First off - If someone's only interest is programming, why the hell would they care about social skills?

      IMO programming is inherently a social activity. Aren't most programmers writing things that other people are meant to interact with? When you code, don't you ask the users what they think of your creation, how to improve it, etc? Don't you also try to influence how they use the program? That's a social thing, surely?

    7. Re:No, they haven't by StripedCow · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And the silly thing is, most of those disdainful programmers don't know anything about solid state physics, the fundamental discipline that gives them the ability to run their programs in the first place. In other words, if you keep behaving like a nerd, you will still be considered a dweeb by others. Disclaimer: I don't know much about the subject, either.

      --
      If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
    8. Re:No, they haven't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One of the reasons is also that non-geeks in general don't understand good manners. They view down to people with other interests (how many times have you heard some rants about how stupid people are because they don't know everything about celebrities or sports), go on and on about their own interests (celebrities, sports, fashion ...) without even thinking if the other side is interested to talk about that.

    9. Re:No, they haven't by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Funny

      with a bit of brains and letting years wear you tired you kind of become a misanthropic bastard all by itself no effort on your side needed.

      I've spent a great deal of time and effort honing my misanthropy you insensitive clod

    10. Re:No, they haven't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      On your claim of non-friendlyness of geeks: That's wrong. It's just that geeks and non-geeks have slightly different notions of what is friendly.

      A typical example, a geek considers it unfriendly to bother other people with a question without first trying to solve it yourself. On the other hand, most non-geeks will consider it unfriendly to ask someone to do some research themselves. Therefore a typical scenario is the following:

      A non-geek asks a geek about some problem, and it is clear from the question that he didn't make an effort to solve it himself.
      Now for the geek that's just unfriendly (friends don't waste friends' time), therefore he asks the non-geek to first do his own research.
      Now the non-geek considers that unfriendly, and getting accused for something he considers normal, he complains about that answer.
      The geek, being accused for suggesting something he considers normal (even fundamental), then complains about the complaint of the other one.
      In the end, both consider each other as violating the most fundamental rules which should be obvious to everyone and then even complains if he is told that.

    11. Re:No, they haven't by dodobh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Quiet introverts are only a communication drain for extroverts. Extroverts are a communication energy drain for inroverts.

      --
      I can throw myself at the ground, and miss.
    12. Re:No, they haven't by somersault · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I get what you're saying, it's all quite sensible - but I think anyone who is really socially aware should try to put themselves in other's shoes rather than expect everyone to be like they are.

      It's funny that you should say introverted people can be a drain on others, because that's exactly how introverts feel about all social interaction. Last year I met the quietest woman I've ever met - she finds it incredibly draining to have to be around other people all the time, and prefers at least a day a week to herself to "recharge". I think all of us can understand that feeling to some extent, but there are people out there who have to deal with an exaggerated version of that feeling, and there's very little they can do to change that short of taking medication.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    13. Re:No, they haven't by skovnymfe · · Score: 5, Funny

      Nothing wrong with being bi-curious, especially not on the road. Makes hitchhiking a lot easier!

    14. Re:No, they haven't by GameboyRMH · · Score: 5, Interesting

      True, women like guys who (they perceive) are popular with other women. That's why if you want to meet women it's far, far easier if you already have a woman in your company, even if she's only your friend. Otherwise you're "fishing without bait."

      If you're quiet and not hanging around a woman who might be mistaken for your girlfriend, and you're not strikingly attractive, women will *never* talk to you. Never ever forever never. You might as well be a ghost. If you strike up a conversation and sprinkle on some (not necessarily true) bragging like CmdrPony did, you will get some attention, even if you're a bit on the ugly side.

      This reminds me of something Ashton Kutcher once said: "If I had known how many women [my wedding ring] could get me access to, I would have started wearing one a lot sooner!" And that's coming from Ashton freaking Kutcher. That's like Usain Bolt saying he regrets not wearing some model of running shoes earlier.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    15. Re:No, they haven't by coinreturn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Everyone has been on that business trip with the guy who just won't talk... you spend hours and hours with them at the airport, at meals, in the car driving to and from your destination, and they don't say a word! It's miserable. You'd rather be there by yourself than be with the guy who can't say anything more than "hello" and "good night."

      Even worse is the guy who just won't shut up. Ever sit next to one of them on a plane when you just want to read?

    16. Re:No, they haven't by JoeMerchant · · Score: 5, Interesting

      First off - If someone's only interest is programming, why the hell would they care about social skills?

      IMO programming is inherently a social activity.

      You're obviously new at this. OSS is a social activity, before "the net" it was more common to encounter programmers like Ted. Ted worked for a company for five years, he was a freakin' genius, he wrote all the software in 100 devices that the company makes and sells. He wrote it all by himself, and maintained it when there was an upgrade required. The company was successful enough that, finally, Ted couldn't handle all the software by himself. They hired a couple of kids fresh out of school to help Ted. It didn't go well, in a short time, Ted left. The kids built up to a team of 5 or 6, but they had a high attrition rate, most quit within 6 months and few ever produced anything usable as a product. Finally, 3 or 4 years after Ted's departure, a core set of programmers were established who could work "as a team," sort of, at least they didn't up and quit when they had a disagreement. Even 10 years after Ted's departure, the sales staff still refers to "the Tedware," and it is still running the majority of the products - even though the new stuff looks better because it is built with modern tools, it takes a team of 3 programmers 6 times as long to make a product "ready for sale" as it took Ted "back in the day."

    17. Re:No, they haven't by JoeMerchant · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Quiet introverts are only a communication drain for extroverts. Extroverts are a communication energy drain for inroverts.

      All things in life need balance - a group of extroverts will spend an hour on morning coffee, two on lunch, and schedule themselves into informal and formal meetings for most of the day. If all you have are extroverts, nothing gets done.

      If you have an "introvert farm" with each in their own little bubble, it can be very hard to "herd the cats" into a common activity without dragging them into some meetings. If you don't get them in meetings often enough, the meetings become painful experiences for everybody involved.

    18. Re:No, they haven't by _merlin · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Developing as a distinct part of a group only has an advantage if others in the group actively take interest. I don't see any real truth to what you describe in my decade of professional experience so far.

      The group doesn't have to actively take interest - they help in other ways anyway.

      Simply having someone listen while one tries to explain a problem they're trying to solve is often a great help: having to express the problem verbally can make the solution obvious. (This would theoretically work even if the listener was inanimate, since the speaker comes to the solution on their own. Tried it with oversize teddy bears, but the developers don't go for it.)

      Giving the group facilities, like a pool table and a table tennis table, will encourage them to take breaks together, and they'll inevitably talk. They may not think they're interested in what each other are working on, but ideas still cross-polinate. Sometimes offhand comments are what one needs to hear.

      Some people react well to /b/tard-like abuse. With a diverse enough group, you'll end up with someone who can dish it out. The people who take it well will seek such a person out. Some people can and do raise their standards if told they're not good enough. (Don't try this as a management tactic - just keep a /b/tard or two around, and the people who need abuse will seek it out.)

      After some time working together, people will identify complementary skills in each other, and get help when faced with obstacles. If the people who they seek assistance from aren't willing to spend some time helping, maybe they're not the kind of people you want around. (There's another kind of problem person - the one who's too eager to help, and in fact takes work off other developers and does it in its entirety, so the original assignee never learns.)

      Seriously, if you haven't seen an effective team in a decade, you aren't working with people who are anywhere near best-of-best developers.

    19. Re:No, they haven't by Hognoxious · · Score: 5, Funny

      When you code, don't you ask the users what they think of your creation, how to improve it, etc?

      Hell no, I work on Linux.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  2. Bitch please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I was cool way before Apple.

  3. million dollar idea by jordan314 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Mention to someone that you make apps and their interest will pick up instantly." ...Because they have a "million dollar app idea" and they want you to design, program, test, and release it for them, and then they'll give you a cut.

  4. Re:Appillionaires? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have a feeling the author of the article made it up. There's a link in the article to a book on Amazon by the title of Appillionaires: Secrets from Developers Who Struck It Rich on the App Store which just happens to be by the author of the article. How about that. A total coincidence.

  5. hackers by nicholas22 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It was the 1960's hackers in MIT that made programming cool.

  6. Left alone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Once upon a time I just had to say I was computer programmer at parties, and I would be happily left alone. Now I have to say i'm a climate change skeptic. Times change.

  7. Money = Sexy by Kohlrabi82 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I get it, when you sit in your basement hacking away at code potentially benefiting many people for free you are a socially unacceptable geek. As soon as you put together some graphics and make money from thousands of people you are the sex icon of the new computer era. It's not that perception has changed, but rather the contrary. Money and status derived from money is valued more than the work itself.

  8. Wishful thinking by ablaze · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When it comes to the social sphere, it will always be much cooler to drink the beer, and not to brew it.

  9. Cool? by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Having had my fair share of "cool" nightlife for many years in a major European city that is very popular everywhere in the world, I can hereby attest that people who think of themselves as being "cool" tend to be morons.

    Here is a little anecdote. While I was slacking around not finishing my studies I've once met a mathematician who was working on the mathematics of string theory and told me he was for many years getting up every morning at 8 o'clock, had a cup of tea (not coffee...bad for concentration), learned math the whole day long, and didn't have any social life (bad for concentration). He was incredibly smart but also really happy to finally have a beer with someone. I wouldn't say he was cool then. However, I'm pretty sure he is cool in another sense now, because he likely does something really interesting nowadays--something that halfway mature people will probably find "cool" although they cannot understand it.

    So basically, what I want to say is: forget about the instant gratification of "coolness" and do what really interests you.

    (Well, to be honest I never checked what this guy is doing now, so he could also just have become a cab driver.... hehhehe)

  10. When asked at parties what do I do, I answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm a programmer, so that they just leave me alone. I say I write in Perl to those who persist, and they go away too.

    If I needed attention so badly, I'd say I clean toilets, or am a funeral parlor, or kill for hire, or all at once.

  11. Whatever dude. by MrEricSir · · Score: 5, Funny

    I still program for System 7, but only because it's ironic.

    --
    There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
  12. Re:Appillionaires? by rta · · Score: 5, Informative

    if you look carefully you'll note TFA says explicitly:

    "Chris Stevens used to write reviews and make funny videos for CNET UK. He left to start an app company, Atomic Antelope, which made the smash-hit Alice for the iPad apps. Now he's written a book about the app development scene, Appillionaires. This is an exclusive extract."

    So this is just self-serving masturbatory ego-stroking hipster scenester BS. Of course Angry Birds is right up there w/ penicillin in importance. No one had EVER written a mobile game before it's hard to even imagine society before it. sheesh.

  13. Ah, the Journalist Reality Distortion Field by Rogerborg · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Journalist - specifically columnists - live in a social media bubble, mostly interacting with other columnists, PR bunnies, socialites and assorted wasters and parasites, among whom iProducts are essentially de rigour. Daaaahling, surely you're not still using that palaeolithic iPhone 3, one might as well just bash two rocks against one's head until one is tempted to vote Republican. (snorts of laughter, clink of glasses)

    Among their social whirl, I'm sure that iApp iDevelopers are like adorable little nerd godlings, but I don't think we can generalise from that to the real world.

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.