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US Gives Raytheon $10.5M For 'Serious Games'

coondoggie writes "These aren't your basic video gaming systems here. The U.S. government gave Raytheon BBN Technologies $10.5 million today to develop what it called 'serious games' that feature an international detective theme developed by game designers, cognitive psychologists and experts in intelligence analysis."

31 of 108 comments (clear)

  1. In the middle of the greatest deficit... by tryptogryphic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...it's good to see our government spending money on games.

    1. Re:In the middle of the greatest deficit... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You know, that's a pretty small budget for a modern AAA game, seeing how this is a government contract it'll probably be based on the old Infocomm text game engine.
      HA! catchpa: derision

    2. Re:In the middle of the greatest deficit... by DerekLyons · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Despite snarky ignorance, even during a deficit, training for various Federal employees and various research efforts continue. The world doesn't stop just because we're in a deficit (as we have been for decades).

    3. Re:In the middle of the greatest deficit... by fwice · · Score: 2

      A snapshot of one of BBN's other training games (VESSEL) is available on their website. While not quite on the same level as Farcry, it does a little bit better than text only :]

      http://bbn.com/technology/immersive_learning_technologies/vessel

    4. Re:In the middle of the greatest deficit... by anagama · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hey, at least that's ~1.25 fewer drones at $8m apiece flying around blowing up innocent people. I'm all for the US simply wasting money rather than wasting innocents and creating the conditions for more terrorism.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    5. Re:In the middle of the greatest deficit... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's good to see one of our largest employers giving more opportunities for work in the middle of one of the worst spates of unemployment in our history, yes.

      Jeez, do the "Government should spend less" people not know that in times of economic hardship, government is supposed to spend *more* to equalize the less spending done by companies/consumers? If the government decided to chop their budgets by trillions tomorrow, you'd see the rate of unemployment spike due to all those federal jobs being cut which would, in turn, cause quite a major kick in the nuts to the economy due to all those folks spending less since they haven't got a steady income.

    6. Re:In the middle of the greatest deficit... by ThatsMyNick · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I am surprised 138 of the killed were classified as civilians. I would expected everyone killed to have been named as a terrorist (afterall no one can really prove someone is not a terrorist)

    7. Re:In the middle of the greatest deficit... by hairyfish · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Define "militant". Taking up arms in your own country to defend against a foreign invader hardly justifies being murdered.

    8. Re:In the middle of the greatest deficit... by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Of all the crap they blow money on at least this actually makes sense; video games have proven their worth time and again as a training aid. Are they still using that system with an M-16 and an NES? Hilarity.

      --
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    9. Re:In the middle of the greatest deficit... by blackicye · · Score: 2

      A snapshot of one of BBN's other training games (VESSEL) is available on their website. While not quite on the same level as Farcry, it does a little bit better than text only :]

      http://bbn.com/technology/immersive_learning_technologies/vessel

      This is true, and additionally most military grade simulators generally don't look like Farcry, I've worked on a $30 million dollar Lockheed flight simulator, and in the early 1990s it had probably graphics on par with microsoft flight simulator 98, or thereabouts.

      I've also played with an Infantry simulator that was built on the operation flashpoint engine..fun stuff.

    10. Re:In the middle of the greatest deficit... by kermidge · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think it's time to remember not to forget what the bastards did.

    11. Re:In the middle of the greatest deficit... by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 2

      What's more, more than 50% will probably be eaten up by 'overhead' costs. Or in other words, I would bet way less than 50% of the money will go into actual game development. Of course the way big companies bill, it will all look like it is going towards game development. But of the 150 to 200 dollars an hour towards development they will likely charge, the actual developers, artists (if a graphics based game... I didn't see anywhere it has to be), testers, architects, analysts, behavioural scientists, etc will likely see less than 50. Some will go towards project management, but most I bet will be for profit. With these companies, even research projects need to make a huge profit. Not saying profit is bad, but I would rather see more tax money going towards the actual work than what these traditional 500 dollar toilet seat defense contractors do.

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      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    12. Re:In the middle of the greatest deficit... by Oxford_Comma_Lover · · Score: 2

      It's called the Streisand Effect, methinks.

      --
      -- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
  2. So... by Stormy+Dragon · · Score: 5, Funny

    They just spent $10.5 million to remake Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?

    1. Re:So... by fsckmnky · · Score: 3

      Lets hope she's naked in this one ... it'll be worth the money then.

  3. Link by tsa · · Score: 4, Informative

    I've never heard of Raythorn BBN Technologies and I bet you haven't either. So here.

    --

    -- Cheers!

    1. Re:Link by fwice · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've never heard of Raythorn BBN Technologies and I bet you haven't either. So here.

      you would have lost the bet. BBN is pretty well known for networking related developments (first packet switch/router, first machine-to-machine messaging/email) and acoustic developments (UN Assembly Hall, forensic analysis of the JFK dictabelt & the Nixon Tapes, `Boomerang').

      In fact, your computer probably has a fair bit of BBN code & configuration in it. Grep for 'BBN' in /etc, see what comes up.

    2. Re:Link by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Informative

      I've never heard of Raythorn BBN Technologies and I bet you haven't either.

      Bolt, Beranek and Newman basically built the first generation of the internet.
      Raytheon is the single largest private employer in the state of Massachusetts.
      Apparently Raytheon purchased BBN - although for a while during the dotcom crazy they were called Genuity.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  4. Re:Unconscious Conditioning? by AHuxley · · Score: 2

    Yes the small projects add up to http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/super-soldiers-the-quest-for-the-ultimate-human-killing-machine-6263279.html
    Games and meds before and after the stress of combat could make for a much better death squad.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  5. No sex scenes then? by codeAlDente · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Will educational games (more serious and presumably less fun than an ordinary first person shooting rampage through a novel virtual environment) improve your ability to make decisions or track objects, analogous to the improvements documented for recreational FPS games? The US government wants to know because it's recently become clear that playing video games does improve performance. Nature Reviews Neuroscience has a nice review on the issue this week, "Brains on video games" http://www.nature.com/nrn/journal/v12/n12/abs/nrn3135.html

    --
    He once inserted random mutations into his code, just so he could have the experience of debugging.
  6. Serious games are actually useful ... by perpenso · · Score: 4, Informative

    In the middle of the greatest deficit it's good to see our government spending money on games.

    Serious games are actually useful and they can save not only money but lives. One area of serious gaming are training simulators. Think beyond flight simulators. They are serious games that teach soldiers how to interact with members of a very different culture. There are serious games that present fire fighters with different types of chemical spills to see how they handle it and react to unfolding events. This particular game also has a very serious and seemingly worthwhile goal:

    "The goal of the Sirius Program is to create experimental Serious Games to train participants and measure their proficiency in recognizing and mitigating the cognitive biases that commonly affect all types of intelligence analysis. The research objective is to experimentally manipulate variables in Serious Games and to determine whether and how such variables might enable player-participant recognition and persistent mitigation of cognitive biases. The Program will provide a basis for experimental repeatability and independent validation of effects, and identify critical elements of design for effective analytic training in Serious Games. The cognitive biases of interest that will be examined include: (1) Confirmation Bias, (2) Fundamental Attribution Error, (3) Bias Blind Spot, (4) Anchoring Bias, (5) Representativeness Bias, and (6) Projection Bias."
    https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=1793ab48906acabaf923c76486c29c0f&_cview=0

  7. Why so cheap? by devleopard · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Average game development costs are estimated to be around $20M-$30M

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_development

    ..over 20M in 2010

    http://www.gamespy.com/articles/108/1082176p1.html

    Obviously the forces driving commercial games and games for the public sector are different, but the relative cost shouldn't be ignored.

    --
    The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.
    1. Re:Why so cheap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Art, animation, audio, distribution, marketing, first-party licensing. When you reduce or outright cut these sections, what happens to the game's budget?

      Looking at game teams I've been on, non-coders made up well over half the dev team, and that's not including marketing/licensing/etc.. These games obviously don't need a big budget presentation.

  8. Good idea ... by MacTO · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I can use more serious games in my life. A hundred percent serious, nitty gritty political or economically serious, and even technically or ideologically serious. I don't even care if the game violates my world view. Just give me something to think about when I drop the controller and rejoin the real world. Until that happens, I will spend most of my time in literature because a good author will do more to challenge me than the typical mass media title (regardless of the media).

    1. Re:Good idea ... by Ragzouken · · Score: 3, Informative

      Deus Ex wasn't bad for that.

  9. The piss test ... by perpenso · · Score: 2

    Somehow I can't help but feel this money would have been better allocated to a game developer instead of a defense contractor.

    Nope, many employees at game development studios won't pass the piss test.

    That is not a joke. That is reality. More than one non-gaming corporation that diversified into gaming was asked if the bought the game studio for the brand name or the talented people. If the later then they were advised not to bring certain aspects of their corporate policy to the game studio, in particular the piss test. It was explained that they would end up firing much of the value behind their investment.

    Besides, what makes you think defense contractors lack genuine game developers. You may have heard all those stories from former developers who complain of companies taking advantage of naive college grads who think game development must be the coolest thing there is and work long hours for low pay and no overtime. Some of these move on to defense contractors.

  10. Also used in military, finance, air traffic, etc.. by fantomas · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Serious games" is a term open for laughing at - but they are used for training in a lot of domains. Another term might be "simulation" and if you start thinking in those terms you're into pilots learning to fly 747's, air traffic controllers managing crisis situations without anybody actually dying, doctors practicing surgery, and so on. These are all out there. I think the game vs. simulation definition might boil down to a simulation with a win scenario, in which case you can bring in the military using variants of Doom and other shooters to train soldiers in team work, financial traders playing sims that improve their trading behaviour, and so forth.

    In all the above, if you take data from the player, either by a sensor measuring heart rate, or just by the style of their game play, it's theorised that you can deduce emotion /cognitive biases and help people improve upon these, either by playing games in a diagnostic mode and then giving them feedback or live feedback in a didactic mode.

    Currently I am working on EU project which is investigating (amongst other things) whether serious games can be used to overcome emotion bias in financial investors: http://www.xdelia.org/

  11. where'd you get those statistics big guy? by decora · · Score: 2

    because , as far as our government is concerned, the drone program doesnt even exist?

    or are you dealing in CLASSIFIED material here? oh, then, expect a knock from the FBI to take you away any day now

  12. waste is not the same thing as stimulus by decora · · Score: 2

    gimmicks, it should be spending it on something that provides actual value to someone, somewhere, hopefully that the private economy isn't producing. it would be like if the government decided to start manufacturing bottled water. 1. nobody needs any more bottled water, the shelves are overflowing with it 2. its a pointless, idiotic product in the first place, and 3. its a complete waste of taxpayer dollars. wasting money is not the same thing as stimulating the economy.

  13. games are also propaganda tools used to promote by decora · · Score: 3, Funny

    a certain ideology or a certain model of the world that may or may not actually resemble reality.

    if the '21st century' wants to abandon the '19th century' notions like, say, empiricism, and the scientific method, (which actually go back hundreds of years BC) then i think the 21st century may be the last century.

  14. Kiss that money goodbye... by Assmasher · · Score: 2

    Unless it is a radar or a missile, Raytheon couldn't find its a** with both hands - especially regarding software (yes, I have experience dealing with them, know people they have hired to run software projects for them, et cetera...)

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