Ask Slashdot: Inexpensive Anti-Theft Vehicle Tracking System?

New submitter Chuckles08 writes "I'm about to complete the purchase of an electric scooter that is worth over $5,000. Since I'll be parking it on a college campus, it will be vulnerable to theft. I'd like to install some kind of tracking device on it but the solutions I've seen so far seem quite expensive. Are there any reasonably priced and effective solutions out there? Ideally, I'd like to be informed by text message if my scooter moves without my knowing. I'd like to then track the scooter's movements." And anything small enough to work for a scooter might be very useful for car owners, too.

Comments

Easy!

[Anonymous Coward]

a "Made in the USA" sticker.

Re:Easy!

[jhoegl]

Because it used to be that people complained about the quality of products made in the USA.

The irony is, we cant do that anymore.

Re:Easy!

[Lumpy]

used to be? I still will not touch a Piece of Crap american made car. Although that in of it's self is not real. ford,GM and Chrysler cars are made in Canada and assembled in mexico. Part assemblies happen in the us from china made parts.

Honda and Hundai actually are more of a "made in the USA" car than GM or Ford is. Plus they dont do stupid crap like GM.. route the MAIN wire harness out of the cabin right where all spray from the tire will hit so it will corrode out within 5 years. (Grand am 2000-2009, Buick Rondevus, Grand Prix) Or use crap gaskets from china and dexcool crap that eat each other and get water in the oil. (1998-2007 all Gm cars that had the 3400 engine)

Both of the above MAJOR manufacturing/engineering flaws never had a recall.

Yet the 2007 Honda civic I have, I just was sent a letter from honda stating I have a lifetime warranty on my engine for free replacement because some cars had engine blocks that may have a flaw, so to own up to it all honda civic sold from 2006-2007 have a unlimited mileage/ unlimite time warranty on them for engine block cracks or any failures due to this flaw. it will be replaced with a NEW engine.

This is why I will never touch a Piece of crap american car again. The companies refuse to own up to flaws and make things right. BMW, Audi, Honda, subaru, mazda and even KIA have done this in the past. Admit to a problem and make it right to everyone that bought their cars. GM and Ford tell you, "sucks to be you!"

So yes, American made typically means it's garbage.

Re:Easy!

[Anonymous Coward]

You mention a legitimate problem with GM's 3400 engine, ignoring the oil sludge problem with Toyota's 3L V6, or the differential problems on the Titan. Perhaps it should be only Honda stands behind their products rather than a Foreign vs Domestic rant?

Also, a V6 in a front-wheel-drive car is asking for trouble. Your Civic doesn't have that problem.

On another note, it seems one has to judge based on the model, not the manufacturer. If I judged the manufactures based on my personal anecdotal evidence, it would be:
1) GM has nearly flawless trucks, but can't build a front-drive car worth driving
2) Ford builds awesome rear-wheel-drive big cars, aside from the plastic intake manifold on the 4.6L V8
3) Lexus IS250 is in the shop every other month for a recall.
4) Toyota tundra in the shop for transmission problems.

It's called "Insurance"

[Anonymous Coward]

You won't find a cheaper way to cover the loss and there is no way to prevent it from being stolen for a reasonable amount of money. As it can be lifted into a truck, taken out and dismantled and any anti=theft system defeated before you can finish reading this response...

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[ironjaw33]

I tend to agree with this. I always laugh at people wasting time installing 'the club' on their steering wheel. It jsut screams "Im desperate and have no means to recover from losses."

It's not that it's impossible to dismantle such anti-theft systems but that the anti-theft systems provide enough incentive for the thieves to move on and steal the low hanging fruit. Given two identical cars parked next to each other, where one has a club and the other doesn't, which one will the thief steal?

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Anonymous Coward]

If I'm the thief, the one with the club. Just to prove a point, and to mess with the statistics.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Anonymous Coward]

Given two identical cars parked next to each other, where one has a club and the other doesn't, which one will the thief steal?

The one with the club. It's easier to steal a car with a club than without, as it means the thief does not need to carry around a long pry bar to break the steering wheel lock, as the club will provide the necessary leverage once it has been cut apart with a small hacksaw blade.

From: http://www.freakonomics.com/2010/06/08/what-car-thieves-think-of-the-club/

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[icebike]

You won't find a cheaper way to cover the loss and there is no way to prevent it from being stolen for a reasonable amount of money. As it can be lifted into a truck, taken out and dismantled and any anti=theft system defeated before you can finish reading this response...

If you can track it on the truck that would be good enough.
Most thieves will not start tearing it down on site.

A cheap add on smartphone with a minimal dataplan and a free find-my-phone app or child tracking app would report its last position.
Permanently wired to the battery and hidden under a plastic part (seat) it would likely survive long enough to provide a location of the
chop shop it was taken too.

I rather suspect it is the casual thief might (as opposed to the professional) might never discover such an installation.

That and learning where campus security cameras are focused should be cheaper than theft insurance.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[tomhudson]

I use "The Club" as icing on the cake combined with a hidden switch that turns off the PATS RFID antenna [1] and another switch for the fuel pump. If a thief gets past that, that is what insurance is for. But, they are going to fight for what they steal.

I agree -- The Club can be defeated easily. But it forces a thief to have to deal with it, and time is their enemy

[1]: The reason I turn off the PATS antenna is that for more sophisticated thieves, it will throw them off the scent, because all attempts they try at key cloning will not work. Of course, if that gets bypassed, the fuel pump switch ensures they won't go far.

Tow truck, shove into a cheap used metal shipping container, dismantle at your leisure - no tracking device will be able to get a signal through the steel walls.

Dump the stripped frame and body, buy it at the insurance auction, get the pink slip, and put the engine, transaxle, wheels, seats, etc. back in an sell it.

And yes, people DO do this. It's one reason insurance companies have begun crushing "strippers".

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Richy_T]

Marriage?

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[MagicM]

If you're going to do that, just leave the car and steal the club.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[j-beda]

Boy, that's a lot of work though. One would think that if people applied this amount of initiative and ingenuity into something legal they could make almost as much money a similar amount of effort and much less risk.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[realityimpaired]

It's not that it's impossible to dismantle such anti-theft systems but that the anti-theft systems provide enough incentive for the thieves to move on and steal the low hanging fruit. Given two identical cars parked next to each other, where one has a club and the other doesn't, which one will the thief steal?

Depends on the car... which one's in better condition, and is more likely to have more saleable parts? A good car thief is going to have all the tools he needs to remove the steering wheel, club and all, within a minute or two, and the club itself won't actually serve as much of a discouragement.

If you want to prevent somebody from stealing your car, get a car that's harder to steal. Subaru, for example, has a very good reputation for not getting stolen, because even back in the 1980's, they were designing the locks in the doors to be hard to jimmy... try to take out an AA membership when you have a Subaru, and they'll tell you that it doesn't cover locking your keys in the car, because they can't guarantee they'll be able to break into your car to get the keys out.

And failing that, more recent cars have transponders in the keys which are tied to immobilizers. My current car is damned near unstealable, because it has such a transponder that is tied to an engine electrics immobilizer, a fuel line cutoff, and a brake lock. If you want to steal my car, you're going to need a flatbed. In response to the originally asked question, I know it's going to be student transportation, but these kinds of immobilizers do exist for scooters as well... have you considered shopping around for a scooter that has this kind of immobilizer? It won't stop somebody from just walking off with it if they're strong enough, but I think this is really a solution in search of a problem....

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[couchslug]

"If you're going to do that, just leave the car and steal the club."

Tools for recovery folks to snap clubs are quite simple, fast to operate, and have been available for years:

http://www.clubbuster.com/cb_directions.htm

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Stormthirst]

Better yet - steal the club and fit it to the other otherwise identical car.

choose pink

[GreatDrok]

Noone is going to steal a pink electric scooter. Maybe put some flower stickers on it.

No good for car

[oldhack]

If your car was stolen, you don't want it back. Trust me.

Buy a dog.

[apparently]

It is a known fact that burglars skip over houses that have dogs in them in favor of houses without dogs. The same should hold for your scooter. As an added benefit, if you pick the right breed, the coolness of the dog will balance-out the total uncoolness of the scooter and you might still have a chance at getting laid.

Re:Buy a dog.

[Greyfox]

Claim it's a seeing eye dog and therefore you should be allowed to park in handicapped spaces!

lojack

[hedwards]

Chances are that the insurance company will pick up a significant portion of the tab to have the vehicle lojaced. I was looking into it when I was going to buy a motorcycle and the cost after insurance company rebate and discount makes it quite inexpensive. Plus they have a good record for recovery and ever car that's lojaced increases the likelihood that a vehicle thief is going to be caught red handed and sent to prison.

Re:lojack

[JoeMerchant]

I have used LoJack on my car for about 15 years now. One benefit of LoJack is that there is no recurring fee (other than battery check / replacement), and it is supported by most law enforcement agencies.

The disadvantage of LoJack for something like $400 vs a DIY thing for $200ish (all told after you pay for EVERYTHING related to it) is that you can't play with it and do your own location of your scooter when it isn't really stolen.

If you value the play factor, you might consider getting one of the GPS kid tracking cell phones, but monthly fees will get you up to over $400 before you finish 4 years of school, even for the cheapest of cell phones.

If you want to go full nerd on it, you can get a HAM foxhunt type solution with or without GPS. If you're honest about what you spend on such a setup, you'll be far above the cost of a LoJack which is essentially the fox transmitter, with the local Police picking up the tab on the hound locator/receiver for you.

you could build something for $130

[craftycoder]

Building one for $130 would be easy enough. You would have to pay a monthly for cell service though.
An Arduino, a voltage regulator, a GPS module, and a GSM module would be the essential parts. Stick them in a weatherproof enclosure and conceal it on the scoot. You would be good to go. You would need to write a little code to get it to squawk its location to a webserver somewhere so in case it was stolen you'd know where it was hiding. I'm not sure how much the retail version are but I'd bet they are similarly priced. Economies of scale are a bitch.

Re:you could build something for $130

[Stevecrox]

Wouldn't it be simpler to get an old Symbian phone and write an app?

A Nokia N95 has GPS and it very low power compared to modern phones (week between charges), you get a cigarette charger hooked up to the battery to keep it charged and then write an application that listens for text messages. Upon recent of the text message he phone would text/email it's number. Then all you would need is a water proof case and a pay as you go sim card.

A quick check on ebay shows them going for £40. I'm getting a Honda CBR 600 RR next week I might do this.

GPS Tracker

[Anonymous Coward]

Instamapper provides a tutorial for a pretty cheap tracking option. It is basically free, except for the hardware cost ($35 or so) and the data cost (10/month so so). You may need to worry about weather-proofing but that could probably be taken care of with a zip lock bag. Check it out, this may be exactly what you are looking for.

http://www.instamapper.com/diy.html

Tracking on the cheap

[ldm]

Find a Xexun TK-102 on ebay, they will report back their position via the mobile network (you supply a SIM card, and can send it a request for the current position, it will text you back). You can get large extended battery packs too, or you could wire it into the bike's power. They work well enough for us to track drivers at work. Just make sure you get a genuine Xexun one, the others are less reliable and tend to lie about their position, in my case being offset by about 4 miles. There are separate car sized ones, but I have not used them.

Child GPS locator

[YrWrstNtmr]

How about one of the GPS kid locators? I despise them for tracking your kid, but for your scoot? Maybe. I've seen some for $200 or so. Mount it on the bike somewhere hidden...reports back to your smartphone.

dealextreme comes to rescue

[Anonymous Coward]

less than 30 euro
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/gsm-realtime-anti-theft-vehicle-tracker-81881

the downside: chineese documentation

Garmin GTU-10

[pem]

I have two, on things I don't want to get lost.

Garmin has two plans. The simple one lets you draw virtual fences around where it's OK for the thing to be, and alerts you when it leaves the area, and also lets you poll for location at any time.

The more full-featured plan (basically $10/month) also will automagically poll and keep history, so you at least know where the thing was when the thieves realized that it had a GPS tracker on it and ripped the thing off.

I built a little 12v -> 5v converter for the one of these I have on a device that has a battery, and hooked it in permanently, so every time the main device is switched on, the GPS's battery gets recharged.

Let the feds do it

[mrbester]

Become a person of interest to the FBI and they'll track you with their superior equipment free of charge.

FBI

[codegen]

Get yourself on the terrorist watch list. The FBI will install one free of charge.

APRS

[Nethead]

Get a ham license, an old 2m handheld and a GPS puck.

http://www.aprs.org/

Prioritise proven law enforcement credibility

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately that may collide with the goal of low-cost.

There's been plenty of reports about people using their home-made tracking systems and getting zero interest from the police. You should go for one that has proven to have credibility with the police (which basically means a brand name and existing relationship that the company has invested in to build).

Alternatively, if you go for a home-made one, it might work because a scooter is big enough not to hide easily. In that case if it's ever stolen you should NOT call up the police and say you have a homemade tracking device - rather just track it down yourself, and when you see it parked somewhere, call up the police and say you randomly spotted it and is absolutely sure it is yours.

While you could...

[Anonymous Coward]

While you *could* get a method to track your now stolen scooter, what is the point? Are you seriously gonna retrieve it yourself? Dangerous. Get the police to do it by giving them the data? Difficult as that still requires the police getting a search warrant on probably cause assuming the police would cooperate with you.

Either way, it's an expensive solution that creates alot of hassle if it does get stolen. Quite simply, insurance is your best bet. The relatively low cost and reliability is much better. You know you will get the money if your scooter isn't recovered with insurance. Doing it yourself, you have to deal with the probability of the scooter recovery. Even if you do recover it, you have to deal with the time it took to recover it and the possibility of damage to the scooter during the time it was missing.

Insurance = minor hassle who you know who to complain to if things don't go your way
Your own method = hassle in which you may not even benifit from

Re:While you could...

[cdrguru]

The world has evolved to the point where crime is considered to be just a cost of doing business. There are criminals and there are victims, and that is pretty much the way of it. The police aren't terribly interested in non-violent crime, especially when it is something that can easily and cheaply be replaced. There is way, way too much violent crime for them to spend a lot of effort on stolen stuff.

Also, this is a significant way for people to gain access to things they otherwise would not be able to afford. Once someone figures out there are few real consequences to stealing there are a lot of opportunities out there. Grab something and the chances are the original owner (or shopkeeper) is just going to (a) write off the loss on their income taxes and (b) get reimbursed by the insurance company.

The one aspect of tracking down a thief is that sometimes they are very protective of their lifestyle. You aren't going to be able to convince the police that you have successfully tracked down "your" thief and there is little proof from standing around looking that a particular item is in fact yours. You want to risk being branded as a thief by trying to read the serial number off some hard-to-see spot on someone else's scooter? Should you successfully find your former scooter are you ready to confront the new owner mano-a-mano? Consider they may be armed - are you going to be? And if armed, are you ready and willing to use deadly force to recover your scooter if the new owner is ready and willing to use deadly force to prevent you from taking it? If not, it is best to forget about recovery.

Insurance is the new way to deal with such involuntary wealth transfers, at least for affluent people. If you are poor, you wouldn't be buying good stuff anyway. If you think you can't afford the insurance but can afford the scooter, you might want to consider what lengths you are willing to go to over your property.

Best Anti-Theft System for College Campuses

[Hugh Pickens writes]

Paint it Pink.

Re:Best Anti-Theft System for College Campuses

[tomhudson]

Or buy a used hearse.

Not only will nobody steal it, but you get to go through red lights at 10mph with all your friends following you.

The geekiness of electric scooters & getting l

[Anonymous Coward]

A few years ago I bought, and started using, an electric motorcycle. A geekier vehicle has rarely been seen.

Imagine my surprise when it turned out to be an utter chick magnet. Better than a puppy. Even better than a baby. Once two women lifted their shirts and pressed their chests to either side the windshield. I kid you not! I was constantly approached by curious women (and some men) wanting to know about the vehicle, and then giving me their contact info. I wish I'd known about this effect when | was single!

Your mileage may vary.

Re:Doesn't matter

[Rogerborg]

...less any policy excess, then you got raped on all insurance policies on all vehicles because you suffered a theft, the thief was free to steal again, and some chump bought a stolen bike. Insurance is the very last line of defence.

An Inexpensive Anti-Theft Vehicle Tracking System?

[amanicdroid]

Have you considered a giant ball of yarn? Tie one end to a pole and the other to a fender. If the bike gets jacked just follow the string.

Re:We don't make much of anything anymore

[linuxwrangler]

We don't make anything anymore? Popular rhetoric, I suppose, but I thought /. readers dug down to the numbers.

Let's look at some facts: The US is still the largest economy in the world. The US is still the largest manufacturer in the world - 1/5 of the entire world's output. China will probably pass the US soon but they have a billion more people - over 4 times as many - as the US. The US is the largest trading country in the world. Sure, the US economy is in the tank with nearly 10% unemployment. But where would one go? Greece (18%)? Spain (>21%)? Ireland (14%)?

There are some bright spots like Germany and Brazil but they are currently the exceptions.

a What?

[Lumpy]

Of you can afford to waste $5000 on a electric scooter then you can afford to pay insurance on it and let it get lifted and then replace it.

a $800.00 used 250cc-500cc motorcycle will do far, far, FAR more than what this scooter can and still get 100+mpg. Plus you wont look dorky and it wont get stolen. A ninja 250 sportbike is dirt cheap even brand new, less than $4500.00 if you find an honest kawasaki dealer. Plus it has enough power to put a set of givi saddlebags on it so you can carry a LOT of stuff.

Can you get your money back on the electric toy scooter?

insurance.

[supercrisp]

An insurance policy that covers theft and vandalism is your better bet, especially on a college campus.

Re:Which is the more American car?

[TheLink]

At least one site claims that Toyota Camrys are the most "american" cars :).

2011
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&subject=ami&story=amMade0611&referer=&aff=national

2010
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&subject=ami&story=amMade0710

2009
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&subject=ami&story=amMade0709

There's statistics, and then there's you lying ...

[damn_registrars]

That Honda that you love so much? If you actually read the news you would know that for model year 2009 Ford matched Honda and Toyota in initial quality and owner satisfaction surveys. And if it wasn't for the touchscreens they installed in 2010 vehicles, they would have matched them for that year as well.

So before you go bashing three completely different corporations under one blind moniker, do your research.

Hell, the 2010 Motor Trend Car of the Year was the Ford Fusion. Being as that was also a model year for an all-new (and therefore CotY eligible) Toyota Camry, that is a huge coup for Ford. Anybody who reads Motor Trend knows that very few awards from them have gone to Ford, GM, or Chrysler in the past couple decades.

But you didn't seem to want to bother with facts in your post. So I won't expect you to follow up on this.

My anti-theft design

[poptix]

My vehicle was recently stolen in Daytona Beach, FL so I've put quite a bit of thought into this.

I'm using an HTC Incredible (busted screen, but it has composite output!) firmly embedded in the vehicle itself in an inconspicuous location, wired into its own battery + small 12v battery + vehicle battery (all properly fused to avoid battery shorting attacks)

Using perl via ASE the Incredible polls the vehicles location every 5 seconds, determines if the vehicle is stationary or moving, and keeps a log (on sdcard) if it changes within 10 meters from the previously logged location.

If the vehicle is moving the bluetooth subsystem is polled to determine if my current phone (HTC Thunderbolt) is within range, if not, it starts emailing me location changes. I can also email the phone and query its location if I happen to forget where I park.

I plan on supplementing this with an Arduino in the future to automatically lock/unlock the vehicle depending on if I'm nearby, some type of ignition cutoff, flashing headlights/interior lights, horn and perhaps some very loud air horns inside connected to a compressor to at least deafen anyone that breaks into the vehicle and attract a lot of attention.

Future plans also include a pico projector (once the laser pico projectors have a high enough lumen output) for a HUD on the windshield using the same HTC Incredible or a small low power PC. There are various OBDII bluetooth interfaces that would work well for displaying various gauges on the HUD.

It's quite a fun project for a very small investment.

Re:There's statistics, and then there's you lying

[LurkerXXX]

1-year owner satisfaction surveys don't mean much to me. I want to know how reliable the car is going to be 5 years down the road. Ford doesn't have much of a record for long term reliability.