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Hosting Services May Be Breaking Syrian Sanctions

judgecorp writes "Many Syrian government sites and services are hosted outside the country, in the U.S., Canada and Germany. A recent report suggests the hosting services may be breaking international sanctions against the Syrian regime, and assisting it in committing 'crimes against humanity.'"

25 of 106 comments (clear)

  1. North Korea too, and it's not new by CmdrPony · · Score: 5, Insightful

    North Korea has hosted their govermental websites (for outsiders, anyway) in Spain. For example korea-drp.com is hosted on IP 91.142.218.24 in Malaga, Spain. It's been there for years. (I know because I've planned visiting there, and looked it up a few times)

    And seriously, hosting services assisting in "crimes against humanity"? They are informational sites about countries. It makes sense for them to outsource their hosting. Hell, even United States uses Akamai. If you want to do censorship against countries or things you don't agree with, sure, go ahead and silence their websites. But country having a website has nothing to do with "crimes against humanity".

    1. Re:North Korea too, and it's not new by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 2

      Planned visiting the IP address, Malaga Spain, or North Korea?

      The first is easy to do. The second and third doesn't explain why you would whois the IP.

      I'd love to see North Korea for curiousity sake; darn me for getting my US citizenship that makes it illegal for me to visit now.

      Supposedly one of the safest countries in the world to visit despite (perhaps because of) the communist ties.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    2. Re:North Korea too, and it's not new by egamma · · Score: 4, Funny

      Planned visiting the IP address, Malaga Spain, or North Korea?

      The first is easy to do. The second and third doesn't explain why you would whois the IP.

      I'd love to see North Korea for curiousity sake; darn me for getting my US citizenship that makes it illegal for me to visit now.

      Supposedly one of the safest countries in the world to visit despite (perhaps because of) the communist ties.

      And I hear they have a great visitor's facility where you can stay for free, for years at a time!

    3. Re:North Korea too, and it's not new by RazzleFrog · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You are quite the sadist aren't you. "They might imprison your guide and rape his family but think of the small talk". How about you visit South Korea instead. Or even go to Cuba.

    4. Re:North Korea too, and it's not new by 0123456 · · Score: 2

      Do you not understand what sanctions are for or how they work?

      Sanctions work?

    5. Re:North Korea too, and it's not new by MasaMuneCyrus · · Score: 4, Funny

      Do you not understand what sanctions are for or how they work?

      Sanctions work?

      Of course they work. Sanctions were great against Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, North Korea, Iran, and Cuba. Before sanctions, they all had terrible crimes against humanity. After sanctions, look how quickly the people came to love the United States and then overthrew their evil regimes to impose new democratic governments with freedom for all!

    6. Re:North Korea too, and it's not new by MasaMuneCyrus · · Score: 2

      IMO, the best way to undermine and/or overthrow crazy regimes and create true change in countries is not to discipline the enemy government, but to act as an example and lend out a hand of friendship straight to the people. Sanctions against governments always result in the enemy government finding new and innovative ways to continue enriching themselves while transferring the pain of sanctions down to the people.

      All too often sanctions hurt the people of a country, and only barely the government. North Korea is a special case because the number of independent websites there is probably zero, but if we start censoring North Korean websites due to sanctions, we'd also quickly start censoring Iranian or Cuban websites for similar reasons, and all we'd be doing there is removing the last dissenting voices in those countries from the internet--hurting the people.

      The best way to create change is to befriend the North Korean people, in any way possible. If they like the USA, then it would undermine the government that is trying to portray the US as a land of evil and badness. If we hurt the people through sanctions, it will actually run counter to the original intent; the people will suffer from the sanctions, grow to hate the US, and the DPRK government's hold on power will increase as their anti-US rhetoric will be legitimized.

    7. Re:North Korea too, and it's not new by Shatrat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The alternative to sanctions would be Saudia Arabia where you have terrible crimes against humanity and the perpetrators live like gods.
      Just because it's not a panacea doesn't mean it's not worth doing.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    8. Re:North Korea too, and it's not new by Compaqt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It might not be popular but: If you want the Internet to be a bastion for free speech, you have to have free speech for all (however repellent), not just for those with whom you agree.

      I just did a check, and some Iranian government websites (as given on Wikipedia) work, as they should, including those with a .com TLD.

      So why the special attention to Syria? Iran also put down an uprising a few years ago.

      If you don't agree with something, argue against it on your own website; don't shut down somebody else's.

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    9. Re:North Korea too, and it's not new by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 2

      Actually, because they have such a harsh military dictatorship and they have eyes on you all the time it is very safe to visit.

      Living there- perhaps not so much.

      I think it was the BBC that did a survery of the safest countries to visit several years back and North Korea was surprisingly ranked amongst the top 2 or 3 in the world.

      Will have to hunt for that link.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    10. Re:North Korea too, and it's not new by CmdrPony · · Score: 2

      It is, but only to government personnel, large companies and foreign visitors. Their IP allocation has been really fucked though, so they only have 1024 ip's for the whole country (outside the intranet). But that's not their fault. Star Joint Ventures is the North Korea-Thai joint company that handles it mostly.

    11. Re:North Korea too, and it's not new by elgeeko.com · · Score: 2

      Who wants to live in a democracy? Rule by the masses? No thanks. I'll keep my Republic, thank you very much.

  2. Huh by masternerdguy · · Score: 3, Informative

    Just being alive seems to piss off the Syrian government.

    --
    To offset political mods, replace Flamebait with Insightful.
  3. Capitalists only care about money, film at 11. by swb · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Someone's willing to take money from political despots in the name of making a profit? Really? This is news?

    I'm not saying it's right, the number of Western businesses willing to sell repression tools to China, etc. really kind of makes me sick and I wish they could engage in more complex motivations than just "sales, sales, sales", but they're not.

    Was it Khrushchev who said the west would sell it the rope to hang us with?

    1. Re:Capitalists only care about money, film at 11. by Osiris+Ani · · Score: 4, Informative

      Was it Khrushchev who said the west would sell it the rope to hang us with?

      "The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them." -Lenin

    2. Re:Capitalists only care about money, film at 11. by unity100 · · Score: 2

      no, he is right. capitalism is actually a system that enforces maximization of profit at the expense of anything. recall BP and gulf of mexico. what happened ? recall intel and the bribery case. what happened ? recall nvidia and the benchmark fraud case. what happened. nothing. this is not 'corruption'. this is what the system enforces.

    3. Re:Capitalists only care about money, film at 11. by LordLucless · · Score: 2

      No, he, and you, are wrong. Capitalism only works the way you describe when it's not implemented properly (which is why the U.S. is so screwed up). According to capitalism, you are supposed to have capitalists and government as countervailing forces - a strong capitalist class, to promote efficiency, and a strong government to protect individuals. When the government collapses and sells out to the capitalist class, you get the US.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
  4. well, by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4, Informative

    Surely you don't expect people to let a little thing like "crimes against humanity" stop someone from making a buck.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  5. Crimes against humanity by rickett81 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    There is no way that I can say that hosting a website is akin to crimes against humanity.

    Lets use this example?

    Lets suppose that 3 people go in and rob a bank. During this heist, they shoot someone who later dies. After the robbery/murder, they jump in an F150 and drive away. Does this mean that Ford is assisting armed robbery and capital murder? No!
    This is ludicrous.

    1. Re:Crimes against humanity by 0123456 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      By ignoring the sanctions, you are making their life a little less difficult.

      Back in the real world, 'sanctions' normally have two results:

      1. They make the leaders rich as they control the supply of essential goods to the population.
      2. They make the population hate the 'sanctioners' more than they hate their government.

    2. Re:Crimes against humanity by artor3 · · Score: 2

      Did Ford know they were selling the car to a bunch of murderers? If so, then I'd say they're morally, if not legally, responsible. But of course, Ford wouldn't know that because no crime had yet been committed and there was no evidence crimes would be committed in the future.

      In the case of Syria, everyone with more than a childlike understanding of the outside world knows that they have been committing and continue to commit crimes against humanity. In an effort to get them to stop, the governments of the world have said "we won't do business with you until you cut it out". Someone who knows this and chooses to do business with them anyway is tacitly condoning their actions.

  6. Where are the Saudi Arabia sanctions? by br00tus · · Score: 4, Informative

    Protests have been happening in Saudi Arabia, although I would barely know watching the corporate media in the US. In Qatif, the police open fired on the demonstrators - they have been in fact, slaughtering people there continually. The Saudi police have killed organizers of protests like Abdul-Ahad. Where are the calls for sanctions on Saudi Arabia in the West?

    Politicians keep saying there is a threat from radical Islam. Of course, Osama bin Laden, the mujahideen and nascent al Qaeda and Taliban were radical Islamists back when the USA was backing them to overthrow the secular Afghani government. Even before the Russians got involved. Israel complains about Hamas, but Israel used to secretly fund Hamas, as a bulwark against the PLO. And what about support for Saudi Arabia, probably more out there than Iran in terms of Islamic fundamentalism?

    If we look at history over the years, up to this very day without change, the west from the 1970s has always backed fundamentalist Islamists, and fought to overthrow secular regimes, of the Nasserite type - secular, with pan-Arab aspirations, talk of sovereignty from western powers and a vaguely socialist platforms, at least back when the Warsaw Pact was around. What governments has the west become involved since 9/11? Iraq, Libya and now Syria - all secular countries. Iraq has gone from a secular country, to one that with US troops on the ground has had its constitution changed to say its Islamic.

    The truth is that people like Osama bin Laden were radical Islamists who the US built up and created, and never cared about his terrorists acts against the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan. They in fact, funded them - flag-wavers like Sylvester Stallone made movies lionizing the Islamic radicals. Secular, pan-Arab followers of Nasser like Qadaffi, Saddam Hussein etc. who were concerned with sovereignty have been the main targets and enemies. We can see what the US has done in Afghanistan to secular regimes, in Iraq which is now Islamic according to its constitution etc. The Saudi government is built up. Yet we are told we have to fear the radical Islamists, although that has been who the US has been supporting up to this day against the secular rulers who want sovereignty.

  7. Re:Fuck sanctions. by unity100 · · Score: 2

    islamicization and then ruling of the masses in middle east through sheiks + dynasties works, and it is a policy that is being practiced since 19th century, when british first did it.

  8. What? by scheme · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Are you seriously comparing whole North Korea to concentration camp in Hitler's Germany? Frankly, it's not like that. While it's true that Kim Jong is the sole leader of the country, it's not really that bad for the people there. They have it much like rest of the world, and people seem really happy. Sure, some of it comes from the fact that they don't know better, but to compare it to concentration camp is ludicrous.

    It sounds like you'd be fine with visiting Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge or Soviet gulags as well. Between 1990-1997 Korea lost between 5-12% of the population to starvation with the military getting preferential treatment in regards to food rations and everyone else being effectively left to fend for themselves. North Korea is still suffering from famine and according to reports people are getting about 700 calories a day of food. Also, north koreans are apparently about five inches shorter on average than equivalent south koreans.

    Either you're woefully misinformed about the situation in North Korea or you're intentionally blinding yourself to it or you simply don't care. If the problem is the former, I'd suggest reading up on things before saying that things are fine and dandy. If it's the latter, well, you should spend time trying to find some compassion and humanity within yourself instead of traveling so much.

    --
    "When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it
    1. Re:What? by CmdrPony · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And what does their food amount per day or length have to do with me visiting there? If anything, I help the general population by visiting there. Sure, that 2000-3000 euros it costs me to do so doesn't matter much, but the people get to see more people from foreign countries. Maybe it indirectly helps in something, I don't know. What have you done, exactly? And again, as I've previously noticed how people (especially those from US) tell how other nationals are suffering so and so much, and when I've visited there it's been nothing like that, I don't really take everything I read on the internet not so seriously. Usually the people are happy, and would be unhappy if things were different. Other people, especially US ones, for some reason like to think they "know better" and try to impose their views on others.