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Cosmic Antimatter Excess Confirmed

sciencehabit writes "In 2008, the Italian satellite PAMELA picked up an unusual signal: a spike in antimatter particles whizzing through space. The discovery, controversial at the time, hinted that physicists might be coming close to detecting dark matter, an enigmatic substance thought to account for 85% of the matter in the universe. Now, new data from NASA's Fermi Gamma-ray Space Telescope confirm the spike (abstract)."

35 of 113 comments (clear)

  1. Dark matter or antimatter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm confused, is this about antimatter or dark matter?

    1. Re:Dark matter or antimatter? by buchner.johannes · · Score: 2, Informative

      The answer is in the second paragraph of the article.

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    2. Re:Dark matter or antimatter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      The answer is in the second paragraph of the article.

      Well, don't keep us hanging in suspense here! What does the second paragraph of the article say?!?

    3. Re:Dark matter or antimatter? by mattie_p · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm really confused. Dark matter is made out of spikes? Do they stab at thee from hell's heart or something?

    4. Re:Dark matter or antimatter? by justin12345 · · Score: 5, Informative

      "Theorists generally believe that when two dark matter particles collide, they should annihilate each other to produce ordinary particles, such as an electron and its antimatter twin, a positron. Thanks to Einstein's iconic equivalence between energy and mass, E=mc2, each of those particles should emerge with an energy essentially equal to the mass of the original dark matter particle."

      I suspect that the author doesn't know that "dark matter" isn't a synonym for "antimatter". The above paragraph, if true, would make the universe a very explode-y place.

      --
      Cool art gallery, if you're into that sort of thing.
    5. Re:Dark matter or antimatter? by mattie_p · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "Theorists generally believe that when two dark matter particles collide, they should annihilate each other to produce ordinary particles, such as an electron and its antimatter twin, a positron. I suspect that the author doesn't know that "dark matter" isn't a synonym for "antimatter". The above paragraph, if true, would make the universe a very explode-y place.

      Some dark matter candidates are, according to theory, their own anti-particle. The only reason it is not a more explode-y space is that dark matter interacts very weakly with other matter, including itself, and therefore has not been identified yet.

    6. Re:Dark matter or antimatter? by sheepe2004 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Why is this modded +4 informative? The quoted text doesn't confuse dark matter and antimatter. The universe isn't explode-y because (if the theorists are right) dark matter interacts very weakly and so collisions are very rare.

      --
      http://compsoc.man.ac.uk/~shep/
    7. Re:Dark matter or antimatter? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2

      I thought the general view is that dark matter doesn't even interact with itself, except gravitationally.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    8. Re:Dark matter or antimatter? by miketee · · Score: 4, Informative

      Clearly, the author DOES differentiate between Dark matter, and antimatter (and matter). They use the terms to refer to different things: 2 Dark Matter particles BEFORE a collision, and a matter + antimatter particle AFTER it. If you meant that the particle/antiparticle pair would instantly annihilate (and the large amount of DM would cause many such annihilations), remember that the DM particles *collided*. IANA Physcist, but wouldn't momentum be conserved, and the 2 new particles move apart with the conserved momentum, preventing annihilation? Also there is the weak interactivity that others have mentioned.

    9. Re:Dark matter or antimatter? by rossdee · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Some dark matter candidates are, according to theory, their own anti-particle"

      In related news, Herman Cain is his own worst enemy.

    10. Re:Dark matter or antimatter? by MrZilla · · Score: 3, Informative

      I think you are confusing "massive" and "strongly interacting".

      The whole point of "dark matter" is that it interacts gravitationally with ordinary matter, but almost never in any other way. So, having massive dark matter particles means a higher gravitational field around them, but nothing else.

      I agree with your other point however, that having two of these dark matter particles annihilating directly to a electron/positron pair seems.. strange. Normal matter/antimatter annihilations always (afaik) produce "energy" (i.e. photons).

      But a good thing is that if annihilation of dark matter produces electron/positron pairs, then smashing electrons and positrons together in an accelerator should produce dark matter.

      --
      mov ax, 4c00h
      int 21h
    11. Re:Dark matter or antimatter? by marcosdumay · · Score: 2

      The photons were probably simplified out of the explanation. If the article would report everything, it would be talking about momentum, and virtual particles too. They probably annihilate into a photon, that produces a pair of electron/positron, and that pair is separated by Earth's magnetic field.

      Also, they probably didn't detect the positrons, but some photon generated by its annihilation.

    12. Re:Dark matter or antimatter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Anything which can produce photons also can produce electron-positron pairs, just with lower probability. However dark matter particles should not produce photons directly because they don't interact electromagnetically (the defining property of dark matter!), and annihilating (directly) into photons would be an electromagnetic interaction (photons are not "pure energy", no matter how often you read that). Rather as weakly interacting particles, I'd expect them to produce virtual Z0s which then could decay into (real) electron-positron pairs, assuming sufficient energy (I'd expect the dominant decay channel to be into neutrinos, though).

    13. Re:Dark matter or antimatter? by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Funny

      Why is this modded +4 informative?

      Because it saved millions of slashdotters from having to read TFA.

      --
      No sig today...
    14. Re:Dark matter or antimatter? by Surt · · Score: 3, Informative

      It was mainly invented to explain why the amount of gravitational effects observed exceed the amount of mass visible. If dark matter has normal gravity, but interacts with other matter in an otherwise very limited fashion, then, no, there wouldn't need to be more of it.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    15. Re:Dark matter or antimatter? by dmartin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Some dark matter candidates are, according to theory, their own anti-particle. The only reason it is not a more explode-y space is that dark matter interacts very weakly with other matter, including itself, and therefore has not been identified yet.

      That would make dark matter very lonely. If it interacts weakly, wouldn't there need to be more of it to account for the effects that dark matter was invented to explain?

      Gravity is incredibly weak for individual particles. The reason we notice it in everyday life is because there are a lot of particles in the Earth pulling us the same way and all those little bits add up. This is the bit that we rely on to explain the galactic rotation curves (and to explain the cold spots in the CMB). If the dark matter only interacted gravitationally then it would almost impossible for us to make any direct detection of this sort (but it is also difficult to explain how so much of it was produced).

      The idea of the WIMP is that the dark matter, in addition to interacting gravitationally, also interacts via another force called the weak force. While these interactions would have to be somewhat small so that the dark matter did not all explode, or collide too much with itself, it would still be much much stronger than the gravitational interactions on a per particle basis -- but would not "add up" the same way. [As a very simple analogy, the electric forces between protons and electrons are very strong compared to their gravitational attraction, but on large distances matter is almost neutral because opposite charges attract]

      This idea is appealing to physicists because
          1) if true, we have hope of detecting the dark matter and verifying its existence and
          2) it tells us (very broadly) that we would produce the right amount of dark matter as the universe was cooling (the so-called WIMP miracle)

    16. Re:Dark matter or antimatter? by geekoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      (not that that will stop me from commenting..)

      and that is what's wrong with the world.

      I don't know jack abut the subject, but I'll be damned if that stopped me from commenting like I'm an expert.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    17. Re:Dark matter or antimatter? by Pope · · Score: 4, Informative

      Eight light minutes, actually.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
  2. Just the emissions of an alien real estate agent.. by ibsteve2u · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...zipping by to see if we've eliminated ourselves yet.

    --
    Orwell: "In a Time of Universal Deceit, telling the Truth is a Revolutionary Act"
  3. What I am afraid of by G3ckoG33k · · Score: 2, Funny

    What I am afraid of, if anyone ever cared... ;)

    What I am afraid of is that some people will use this as evidence of otherworldly forces (any Slashdot reader), supreme beings (any Slashdot reader), Batman (a DC comic), demons (a variety of delusions), Thor (The Norse God), Bogeyman (an American tell tale), Akhenaten's Ra (Akhenaten the monotheistic precursor to the Abrahamitic monotheistic "Yahweh"), Santa Claus (The Coca Cola version of a Norse tradtion), Green Lantern (a DC superhero), Sherlock Holmes (a Doyle detective), King Kong (a Hollywood movie), or whatever has sprung out of man's mind.

    Dark Matter. Ok, calm down, we won't bite.

  4. Why are we discussing this? by gringer · · Score: 5, Funny

    It doesn't matter

    --
    Ask me about repetitive DNA
    1. Re:Why are we discussing this? by migla · · Score: 5, Funny

      >It doesn't matter

      What's the matter with you? As a matter of fact, it does. One semantically related question is which of the two mats is more mat than the other - which one is matter? Probably the person who lays mats for a living, the matter, could answer that.

      --
      Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
    2. Re:Why are we discussing this? by muon-catalyzed · · Score: 3, Informative

      > It doesn't matter
      yes it matters, particle physics is very important as are cosmic radiation studies, recetly Soudan 2 (underground proton decay particle detector) measure that 10000 relativistic muons are hitting every 1m2 of earth per minute (avg.), now we got this new type of cold fusion confirmed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon_catalyzed_fusion, exciting times!

    3. Re:Why are we discussing this? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4, Funny

      woooosh

      Well, dark matter *is* hard to detect.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  5. Re:Its not that simple.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    goatse alert

  6. Anti-matter vs. dark matter by walter_f · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In my opinion and in contrary to what the original posting suggests, anti-matter should not be viewed as particularly "dark".

    E.g., anti-Hydrogen, consisting of an anti-proton and a positron, will readily absorb a quantum of energy (a photon, which happens to be one of the particles that are their own anti-particles) and re-emit a photon again, just like "plain old" hydrogen. Thus, a cloud of anti-hydrogen should be observable as easily (or difficultly) as a cloud of hydrogen, assuming their masses, their viewing distances and all other parameters like temperature, density etc. being equal.

    So there should be no difference in observability here, due to the fact that photons are citizens of both realms, of "nornal" matter as well as of anti-matter, and will interact with mass particles of both realms in the same way.

    Obviously, "dark matter" looks like a very different beast...

    1. Re:Anti-matter vs. dark matter by sheepe2004 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm guessing you didn't RTFA? They are not saying that antimatter is dark matter.

      They have detected a large and unexpected amount of antimatter.
      Dark matter collisions (theoretically) can create large amounts of antimatter.
      So one possible explanation for the antimatter is that two dark matter particles collided.

      --
      http://compsoc.man.ac.uk/~shep/
    2. Re:Anti-matter vs. dark matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Interestingly enough, we could all be made up of antimatter. If after the Big Bang, the amount of anitmatter was greater than matter, we be made (assuming me happened to exist) out of anitmatter, but call the anitmatter "normal matter", and call the real matter "anitmatter".

      That's gibberish. You might as well says that cats might really be called dogs. They're not. Which is matter and which is anti-matter (or any other labels) depends on what names people have given them. There isn't a "right" answer outside of what people have come up with.

    3. Re:Anti-matter vs. dark matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Interestingly enough, we could all be made up of antimatter. If after the Big Bang, the amount of anitmatter was greater than matter, we be made (assuming me happened to exist) out of anitmatter, but call the anitmatter "normal matter", and call the real matter "anitmatter".

      Yeah! And how come we call them fingers if we never see them fing?

  7. Re:Bow for now by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2

    Until My Kingdom cometh.

    Ah, so when he wrote "supreme beings (any Slashdot reader)", you must be the reader he had in mind.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  8. To quote the philosopher Homer: by orphiuchus · · Score: 2

    What is mind?
    No matter.
    What is matter?
    Never mind.

  9. Alternate explanation by AdrianKemp · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Antimatter galaxies (or at least clumps) seem like they could also plausibly explain this. That's not an outright endorsement of the theory but I can't help but think that they've got insufficient evidence to show causal link.

    They're saying:
    1. lots of energy released (presumably when dark matter interacts)
    2. anti-matter is created

    An equally plausible interpretation is:
    1. the anti-matter already exists
    2. the interactions with small amounts of matter cause the energy release

    I may have missed it, but I don't see anything to rule that possibility out. The primary objection to the anti-matter galaxy theory is that we don't see a lot of annihilation events; This could just as easily be those exact events.

  10. Neutralino Annihilation by Stirling+Newberry · · Score: 4, Informative
    The most promising wimp is a particle known as the neutralino. This is a hypothesized particle which would exist in either super-symmetrical theories. Super-symmetry says that in an unbroken general theory, every boson - a particle like a photon with an integer spin - has a fermion - 1/2 spin - partner, with the difference being that the fermion has a spin of 1/2. Since we don't seen bosons and fermions of the same energy, if, and it is still if, there was super-symmetry, it is a broken symmetry.

    The neutralino would be a composite particle, composed of the super-partners of the guage bosons and the higgs - that is wino (w partner), higgsino (higgs parnter), bino (partner of the weak hypercharge). Since the symmetry is broken, we don't see the original super-partners, only their super-imposed forms with the same mass eigenstate.

    When particles annihilate, they produce a set of particles that have a quantum number of 0. Any particles with the same mass-energy as the original colliding pair of particle and anti-particle can be produced. If mass energies are low, this means that the result will be mostly photons, because photons have no mass, and are only energy. That is, they have a low total mass energy. But any particles can be produced, so long as the result totals to 0, and has the same mass energy.

    Neutralinos, as you would guess, from the term WIMP, are weakly interacting, and massive. That means that when a neutralino annihilates another, particles with greater mass energy can be produced.

    In a 1994 paper Drees et al calculated neutralino decay into gluons. One of the co-authors here Kamionkowski went on to publish more on dark matter and neutralinos. There have been other papers on other possible decay products from neutralino annihilation, because, of course, if annihilation produces unstable particles, or anti-particle pairs, it can keep going until it reaches an end state of stable products. However, not all anti-particle pairs produce annihilate, and if the products are stable, they go bouncing on their merry way.

    This means that anti-protons and positrons above the background, and at certain energy levels could be the signature of neutralino dark matter.

    Or to roll things back: one of the few ways, other than gravity, we can detect WIMPS is from their annihilations. To determine if, and if so, what, WIMPs are composed of, we have to look at the decay products of those events. The Pamela data shows that there is an excess of positrons, however, it does not show that this excess is from WIMP annihilation. The search for this spectrum is important for both large and small reasons: large because cosmology evolves based on mass, and small because neutralinos, if detected, tell us about the final broken super-symmetrical extensions to the Standard Model, and in turn tell us about the super-partners, and, in turn, about the partners. For example, we have not seen a higgs boson, but a neutralino is an eigenstate of a higgsino fermion, which implies a higgs boson to be partnered with. Back in the 1990's Drees et al published

  11. Re:It could influence world politics by Surt · · Score: 2

    You feel that there isn't a sufficient amount of irrationality out there to generate wars now, but after dark matter is discovered, there will be a big increase?

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  12. ...but no anti-protons by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 3, Informative

    If the article would report everything, it would be talking about momentum, and virtual particles too.

    It would not report on virtual particles because the annihilation takes place in the galactic core where the densities of DM are highest and virtual particles can only exist for the tiniest fractions of an instant not the ~50k years needed to make it from the core.

    The question you should be asking is where are all the anti-protons? Since DM particles generally need to have masses roughly ~100 or more times the mass of the proton their annihilations should be capable of producing all stable anti-particles below this. Hence most models predict an excess of anti-protons as well as positrons but no satellite has seen any evidence of this. So if this positron excess is due to DM (and that is a BIG if!) we may have to start looking at some of the more exotic DM models (e.g. Arkani-Hamed et al. Phys Rev D (2009) vol. 79 (1) pp. 015014) which some of us are already looking for with the LHC.