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Malls Track Shoppers' Cell Phones On Black Friday
antdude writes in with a story about two U.S. malls that plan on tracking shoppers' movements by monitoring the signals from their cell phones this Friday. "The management company of both malls, Forest City Commercial Management, says personal data is not being tracked. 'We won't be looking at singular shoppers,' said Stephanie Shriver-Engdahl, vice president of digital strategy for Forest City. 'The system monitors patterns of movement. We can see, like migrating birds, where people are going to.' Still, the company is preemptively notifying customers by hanging small signs around the shopping centers. Consumers can opt out by turning off their phones."
"Consumers can opt out by turning off their phones."
I guess by that metric people who don't go there are also opting out.
>Consumers can opt out by turning off their phones.
I can opt out of billboards by not driving and staying at home. I can opt out of spam by not having an email account.
opt out, I don't think those words mean what you think they mean.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
What will happen if you walk around with a jammer in your pocket/bag?
But some day soon, it will be.
When there's a large enough pool of data on given subset of users "Anon" F through Q, analytical processes and programs will be able to determine when a member of said subset appears somewhere.
Using inter-subset heuristics, this information could be refined further to detail the habits of the individuals, such as Anon M.
While still technically "Anonymous", it would require a very, very small pool of data and additional research/tracking to determine who that Anonymous user actually is.
The technology is almost (if not already) there, and the real setback at the moment is simply not having all of that data yet.
We are tracking your movements. You can opt out by not moving.
rewriting history since 2109
Ya, but the sign shown doesn't mention turning off your phone... Just to visit the Management Office or visit their website if you have questions. Of course, visiting the office will entail getting tracked. Also, I'm not sure how tracking our phones will help "enhance your shopping experience".
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
I'd be surprised if other large commercial destinations (malls, amusement parks, sporting venues, etc) aren't using this tech already. It's not like these two malls invented it themselves, and even if they're the first to use it, it must have been beta tested somewhere.
I think we can agree that the "we won't be looking at singular shoppers" reassurance is completely ridiculous. As though there's some algorithm to digitally count the devices on a network and track their locations without, umm, actually counting them? The only question is how long the data is stored.
At the same time, even opting out now is pointless, as we've established that the phone company, the police, and the FBI all have access to your phone's location tracking information. It's a bit late to worry about whether or not to use things like Apple's "Find My Friends" app. Best to avoid owning a cell phone altogether if you're worried about being tracked, or at least leave it behind (and turn it off) when you don't want to be followed.
TFA:
"The tracking system, called FootPath Technology, works through a series of antennas positioned throughout the shopping center that capture the unique identification number assigned to each phone (similar to a computer's IP address), and tracks its movement throughout the stores. ... And it doesn't collect any personal details associated with the ID, like the user's name or phone number. That information is fiercely protected by mobile carriers, and often can be legally obtained only through a court order. "
Yet. You can bet your sweet bippy that while the mall can't get the identifying information, the mall *will* sell it to the carriers who do have the information. This would be a marketing goldmine for the carriers, and one they could not help but to exploit for fun and most importantly, profit.
I would opt out by simply not shopping at that mall. My cellular phone is for my own convenience and one that I pay to maintain, it isn't so companies can figure out where I shop and give them incentive to try to get me to be a good little consumer and spend all my money.
My tolerance for this kind of thing is getting lower each time I read stories like this. More and more, companies seem to view the public as sheep to be shorn without any expectation of privacy, rights nor recourse.
...would be to turn around and walk back out of the mall in question, then go shop somewhere else that better respects your privacy rights.
See http://yro.slashdot.org/story/08/05/18/1838222/shopping-centers-track-customers-via-cell-phone-signals
Back in the day, the malls had a person with a thumb-clicker counting people as they walked through doors. I didn't consider it a privacy issue. And I assume while I shop online that my movement is being tracked much more closely. But more to the point, shopping malls are going the way of the dodo. The Mall company may find it a pretty depressing set of data. http://themoderatevoice.com/27443/economys-latest-victim-shopping-malls-are-closing/
Gently reply
They cannot track cell phones but rather your wifi and Bluetooth MAC addresses.
Just switch them off and you are done.
Or Sue the mall management as an option.
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
I do find the many conflicting faces of slashdot amusing - on one hand, apparently connecting to an unsecured wifi network is perfectly acceptable because it's publicly broadcasting a signal, but on the other hand tracking a publicly broadcasted signal from a mobile phone is a big no-no.
wtf are you talking about? the phone company can get the information already, AND they don't give a shit what you buy.
This is like the crazy phone company conspiracy of the 70s.
They collect th data, and make the mall experience better. How the FUCK is the sheering sheep?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
It's interesting to see the contrast in comments between this story, and the recent Google WiFi Geolocation Opt-Out story:
http://search.slashdot.org/story/11/11/15/1459208/google-to-allow-location-service-opt-out
While in the case of Google's geolocation services the common argument is that your SSID/MAC needn't be identifying and you're broadcasting it so one has no right to complain anyway... ...here it's almost the complete opposite. Here the broadcasted information is for one's own benefit (the ability to use a cell phone) and it doesn't matter that the information isn't necessarily identifying it's still evil to collect it.
This despite the SSID likely originating from a private (or business) residence, while your cellphone's signal is originating within another business' location.
Now obviously there are differences, and the people commenting may not be the same, but I wonder if what's really the difference isn't the fact that there's likely to be little benefit to somebody that cell phone signals are being tracked*, versus the major benefit of faster / less power-hungry geolocation from recording WiFi locations.
( * Supported by the notion that most people don't seem to take much issue with e.g. TomTom partnering with cell providers to detect traffic trends in order to warn users of their navigation devices/software of, among other, traffic jams - as obviously that's a major benefit to the user. )
I do find the many conflicting faces of slashdot amusing
You do realise that Slashdot is a web site where thousands of different people post their opinions and not a single person, right? And that one person who thinks A is probably not the same person who things not-A?
You need to just quit whining. "Black Friday" refers to Friday the 13th, or any Friday on which a catastrophe occurs. The only reason the day after Thanksgiving is called "Black Friday" is because the Philly PD started calling it that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Friday_(shopping)#Origin_of_the_term
JANUARY 1966 -- "Black Friday" is the name which the Philadelphia Police Department has given to the Friday following Thanksgiving Day. It is not a term of endearment to them. "Black Friday" officially opens the Christmas shopping season in center city, and it usually brings massive traffic jams and over-crowded sidewalks as the downtown stores are mobbed from opening to closing.
Does the FCC actually allow this?
It doesn't have to. Tracking cellphones can be done passively. FCC lacks jurisdiction when you don't generate "communications".
What you may be looking for is a consumer protection bureau.
Not true. The FCC has banned listening to the cellphone bands for a very long time now.
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Scanner_(radio)#Legal_issues_in_the_US
I'm interested in where you would buy the equipment to do this. Who is selling lots of small networked cell phone receivers that would pull the IMEI from the datastream? How cheap are they that a shopping mall can buy a box full? And are those same receivers also able to listen in to the conversations, or are they only monitoring the control channel?
Yeah. Only time I'd want to be "tracked" would be sending my location to 911 so's they could take my heart-attacked self to the ER. Otherwise I believe it's nobody's business where I am and where I go.
Consumers can opt out by turning off their phones."
This is like a spammer telling you that you can opt-out of junk mail only by closing your e-mail account.
A telemarketer telling you that you can opt-out of unwanted calls only by changing your phone number.
A credit card company telling you that you can "opt out" of credit card offers only by waiting until a bill with them is 60 days overdue before paying it.
A social network website informing you that you can only opt-out of tracking by refraining from using other websites while logged in to your account.
A magazine informing you that the only way you can opt-out of automatic renewal is to cancel your subscription before it renews (but you don't receive the issues in between the cancel date and the expiration date, and no refunds).
A monthly book club informing you that the only way you can opt-out of ongoing membership after ending service is to cancel the bank account whose routing/account number was used to signup for the service.
etc... etc.... none of these "opt-out" are true opt-out. True opt-out, means the consumer can WITHDRAW THEIR PERMISSION to perform the unwanted activity, and it will stop WITHOUT INCONVENIENCE to the consumer, such as having to refrain from using a tool they would normally use, or refrain from partaking in basic services such as phone service.
As for the ability to receive cell phone signals and use that to track people... I question if it's even legal. The mall doesn't have FCC licenses to operate a receiver on the license restricted private radio frequencies used by cell phones, DO they??
Last I checked, it was illegal to eavesdrop on a cell phone signal as a third party. "receiving the signal" to detect its presence is no different from receiving a signal to eavesdrop on the contents of the message -- both are wiretapping either way.. I suppose we should see the mall management jailed and prosecuted to the full extent of the law........
Every phone has a unique IMEI that is broadcast along with the SIM card number. If they've done their homework, then they're tracking the IMEI as well as the SIM card.
But even if one or two people did as you did, it would be meaningless noise in the sea of data.