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Carrier IQ Relents, Apologizes
symbolset writes "Update from an earlier story here, where Carrier IQ was pursuing a security researcher for pointing out privacy issues in an application alleged to track and record the activities of smartphone users. The company has relented, and retracted their Cease and Desist letter. In their press release [PDF] they say: 'As of today, we are withdrawing our cease and desist letter to Mr. Trevor Eckhart. We have reached out to Mr.
Eckhart and the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) to apologize. Our action was misguided and we are deeply sorry for any concern or trouble that our letter may have caused Mr. Eckhart. We sincerely appreciate and respect EFF's work
on his behalf, and share their commitment to protecting free speech in a rapidly changing technological world.' Notch another win for the Streisand effect."
First Post
How much of this was due to the slashdot publicity and EFF involvement
Or was this all out of the goodness of their hearts?
How many little guys are getting squashed because they dont get the publicity or cant get the support of a big organisation?
'Sorry' is the most devalued word in the corporate world today :-/
Yet another reason why "open" isn't really that open, really.
Probably almost entirely the EFF's utter thrashing of CIQ's request/demands.
Id say 0% due to slashdot, nerds are already pissed at them for it regardless of apology.
The EFF is a great organisation
Where would we be without them
Donate https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/11/double-your-impact-take-eff-mission-challenge with dollar for dollar matching by the Brin Wojcicki Foundation until december 31st
I've sent mine in
Show me multiple fucking pink slips or the apology didn't happen.
That's my question.
Dear EFF. I will happily donate another $100 this year if you announce intent to vigorously pursue total disbarment of the attorney that signed the letter from carrier IQ.
Judging from the response, virtually none of the clients actions seemed at all questionable under even the vaguest attempt to examine things reasonably. Just like the former Mr. Jackson's doctor...just because their client *really really wanted* their services does not mean it was ethical (or lawful) for them to supply them.
Sure, it might be nice to get CIQ to arrange a donation to the SFLC or EFF. But really--I don't expect everybody to necessarily understand subtleties of IP law. That's what a lawyer is for. The company *had* a general counsel. Who should have done his damned job instead of just collecting a check.
I'd like to see some of these bottom-feeders start losing their occupation for their crimes against society and the legal system.
There needs to be higher and worse consequences to barratry.
Any subscribed service with a 2-way tethered user device such as cell phones, dsl / cable boxes, and cable/dsl/digital television will have embedded information gathering and remote update/control software almost guaranteed.
Much of it is strictly for service metrics, diagnostics and predictive problem avoidance. Some of it is used as an interactive problem solving tool for tier 1 support. You might want to look at www.motive.com as an example company.
If desired though, these products usually have the capability for being very invasive. eg: TV set top boxes can record all kinds of info about your viewing habits: every button push on the remote can be recorded, effectively recording much about your viewing habits.
It's an old story: there are legitimate and desirable uses for these tools but they are all capable of misuse. Even when not abused, our access to privacy and anonymity is severely eroded from what it was even 20 years ago.
Benign? Maybe. Food for thought anyways.
No, really.
This is why the EFF is so important -- because they have the resources and know-how to stand up for the Hackers, the Security Researchers, the Makers, the Professors, and even the lowly Undergraduates.
The EFF didn't just get results here, they effectively Pimp-slapped the company....with knowledge.
So before you go out on Black Friday to blow a few hundred on electronic toys..err...valuable tools for your job, go give the EFF $20 dollars. Heck, give them something like $65 and they'll even send you a sweet T-Shirt.
What are you waiting for? Think about it: You're a geek and don't get to pimp-slap anyone. Live vicariously through the EFF -- strike a blow against Censorship.
http://eff.org/donate
coding is life
The apology letter looks sound to me. I don't see any reason why we should be second-guessing their intentions. There is nothing ambiguous here.
It says at the very end, "We welcome feedback on our products and understand that Mr. Eckhart and other developers like him play an important role by raising questions about the complicated and technical aspects of the mobile ecosystem."
These people really sound like fair players, people who are listening, people who are concerned, and who are trying to do a good job. They aren't silencing discussion, and they aren't showing themselves to be anything other than fair.
mod parent up please the EFF needs our support, they are so great
The EFF is a great organisation
Where would we be without them
Donate https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/11/double-your-impact-take-eff-mission-challenge with dollar for dollar matching by the Brin Wojcicki Foundation until december 31st
I've sent mine in
Also, how long until they change their name so as to "distance" themsleves from their past nefarious practices, which of course will continue regardless of moniker -- and thereby allowing the cell carriers to say "hey, we don't use that nasty carrierIQ software any more.
1: How can I determine if this rootkit crapware is on my Android phone?
2: How can I remove it?
3: How can I sue Carrier IQ for invasion of privacy and anything else that good lawyer can think of?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
The EFF is a great organisation
Where would we be without them
Donate https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/11/double-your-impact-take-eff-mission-challenge with dollar for dollar matching by the Brin Wojcicki Foundation until december 31st
I've sent mine in
Note that the "Brin" in Brin Wojcicki is none other than Sergey Brin from Google. I think that speaks volumes, the cofounder of Google is giving half a million dollars of his personal fortune to the EFF. What other corporate entity would side with the EFF on any matter?
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
Now, you hush up, youngster! You're going to cause some of those Apple and Microsoft phanbois to have apoplectic fits and seizures!
More seriously, I badmouth Google a little bit, now and then. But, you're perfectly right. There aren't a lot of corporations funding the EFF. Nice find!
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Uhhhhmmmm - slashdot people may very well over rate their impact on things like this. But, 0%? Seriously? If some organization is engaged in shady operations, and those shady operations are exposed, the more eyes on them, the more nervous they get. At least, that's what I think. Don't discount the value of being slashdotted. Or, tweeted, or dug, or whatever. The more eyes, the better!
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
It was due to the EFF. Slashdot did jack shit for any of it.
Why? What on earth did this attorney do that merits disbarment? Fire him, fine, whatever, but the fight for transparency and intellectual freedom is not waged with petty vendettas.
Notch another win for the Streisand effect.
Why do you people always have to be snotty asses about everything? Because you didn't get to date a cheerleader in high school? Get over it, for fuck's sake.
People make mistakes -- even snotty geeks. The very best people own up to those mistake. This is the right way to do that. Try looking up the word "magnanimous".
No, it's 0%. No one cares what a bunch of anarchist losers on Slashdot think. And even if they did, why apologize? Slashdotters will call for your death till the end of days for any slight, real or imagined. We'll still be seeing people get modded up for making jokes about CIQ's "rootkit" months from now. Just look around this thread. The company was falsely accused of making a rootkit, over-reacted, apologized, and you still get people insisting that heads roll for this.
It's extremism one-upsmanship. Everyone wants to prove that they're even more outraged than the other guy, because that's how you show how cool you are and get modded up.
var likelyhoodOfValidArgument = modPointsWhenPosted < 2;
Perhaps it was the fear of what happened to HBGary with Anonymous.
Yet another troll that is trolling. Really.
Shouldn't that be more like: double likelyhoodOfValidArgument = 1-modPointsWhenPosted/6; or perhaps: bool ValidArgument = ( modPointsWhenPosted2);
If my comment didn't sound as good in your head as it did in mine, then I guess we all know who's to blame
Note that the "Brin" in Brin Wojcicki is none other than Sergey Brin from Google. I think that speaks volumes, the cofounder of Google is giving half a million dollars of his personal fortune to the EFF. What other corporate entity would side with the EFF on any matter?
Actually, both Apple and Microsoft match donations to EFF made by their employees (up to $10k per employee for Apple, and up to $12k for MS). Granted, this is nowhere near as all-inclusive as Brin's program, but if you count matching donations as "siding with", well...
Just to add though, that's a reflection on Brin, not Google.
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
Dear CarrierIQ,
It's good that you've recognized that the security researcher in question had no illicit intent in mind, and was actually working for the good of the general public. Very nice, and definitely the high road. But...
It's clear that not only did you unapolgetically and unreservedly produce a product with the explict, baked-in and horrific capacity to spy on the activities of millions of people (with no distinction between adults and minors, many of whom also have smartphones these days), but you also intended to use brutish, irresponsible tactics to muzzle a person who called you out on it.
So the lesson you need to take away from this is not that pushing the envelope and then apologizing gets you off the hook. The real lesson you need to learn is that, from this point onwards, when I see the brand name "CarrierIQ" before me, my brain will automatically and reflexively replace the phrase "PIG-FUCKING ASSHOLES". And I'm sure I'm not the only ones who feel that way, you scumbag pieces of shit. Fuck you all. I wish nothing more than that the carriers who are your customer base will be ashamed to buy your product, and that you will go out of business.
Clean up your product and make it about..and only about...what you say your goals are as a company, and after half a decade most of the people who feel like I do (including me) will come around and actually see "CarrierIQ" when we read "CarrierIQ". That's the cost of what you have done, and the real lesson you should take away from this.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
We sincerely appreciate and respect EFF's work on his behalf, and share their commitment to protecting free speech in a rapidly changing technological world.'
Keeping in mind that "free speech" means something different to them than it does to us.
Carrier IQ would probably like nothing more than to be completely forgotten by the public, since that's not their market (the carriers are). Almost anything would be worth it to them to get Eckhart et al off their back.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
Whatever. I love the EFF and don't want to take away from their accomplshments and contributions. But this is a special case that could have been won even without their help.
In lawyer-speak, the case was without merit. In layman's terms we call that "fucking retarded".
If they had continued with a court case, the least that would happened to Carrier IQ is having to pay for Eckhart's court costs and possibly some damages. The worst? Um...having to present as evidence what they actually do which somehow might end up in the news. Bad publicity. People might get pissed and want the software removed. Not just geeks. Everyone.
See, this way the news is a blip on the radar. No one will remember it next month or next year. They were sure as hell going to lose the court case, but losing their market is far too high a cost.
Anyone know of a list of phones that have CIQ installed on them and if so where also how do you find it and disarm it ..
Agree... This is probably due to EFFs involvement...
But let's also have a little respect for Carrier IQ, it takes balls to make this kind of turnaround...
But let's also have a little respect for Carrier IQ, it takes balls to make this kind of turnaround...
or a fear that they are about to be dumped by all their customers due to the negative publicity.
I believe it's the carriers who install it (hence 'CarrierIQ') not the phone mfr, BICBW
Actually, both Apple and Microsoft match donations to EFF made by their employees (up to $10k per employee for Apple, and up to $12k for MS). Granted, this is nowhere near as all-inclusive as Brin's program, but if you count matching donations as "siding with", well...
Right, that's how they catch the traitors from within. Clever!
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
You believe correctly.
Thank the rom devs that remove carrier IQ in their roms. The current rom I'm running on my Epic4g has NO carrier IQ :-)
So you have apologized, but it still doesn't change the fact that the software spies, and there is no way for a consumer to turn that off. So what are you going to do about that?
Well, we know this had no basis in law and fact. Now about frivolous:
Either the lawyer knowinly advanced an unwarranted claim in order to injure another (prevent a researcher from doing his work) or he's completely incompetent.
Yeah, I think at least an official reprimand is in order.
>How much of this was due to the slashdot publicity and EFF involvement?
EFF involvement: almost all of it. They've been doing some incredibly stupid stuff lately, but once in a while they still have the capability to do something right.
Slashdot PR: don't kid yourself. Slashdot is irrelevant to just about anything other than DDoS'ing self-hosted websites. Face it, we're not that important.
Everybody gets what the majority deserves.