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How Does a Self-Taught Computer Geek Get Hired?

An anonymous reader writes "I'm essentially a self-taught computer geek who started learning BASIC at age 12, but decided NOT to do the traditional computer-nerd thing (comp sci or physics, computer degree, etc.). I've essentially kept up with computers as a hobby, teaching myself web-design, Linux/LAMP, Javascript, and now Drupal. I've worked for a short time at a web dev shop but mostly have just done freelance projects and here-and-there stuff for websites or projects, many of which have gone under or are no longer accessible. I'm creative, have Photoshop/GIMP skills, I'm personable and self-motivated...and I'd like to get a 'real' job now but I don't really look like much on paper — how can I (specifically with Drupal) make myself look good on a CV and/or establish solid credentials that will make people more willing to take a chance and hire me? Will Drupalcon 2012 help me make inroads? Are there other ways to 'prove' myself to be a capable web admin/developer?"

21 of 523 comments (clear)

  1. Why do you want to be hired? by CmdrPony · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Instead of running your own business. Then you don't need to provide your quality and skills to anyone, and it can make more money in the long run as you are not limited to your salary and don't have to fear getting fired. If you know web-design and running Drupal, then start to work with those. Make your websites. Now, learning some information about other subjects will help. Learn things like marketing, SEO and in general running a business. Most of the information can be found on webmaster forums. Then it's up to you - you can even sell your services to local businesses. You also have the added benefit of working with your projects instead of someones else, which is always more boring.

    It seems like most people, especially geeks, want to take the easy route and try get a job. Being self-employed or running a business isn't all that hard and it is much more rewarding, especially for a computer geek now in internet age.

    1. Re:Why do you want to be hired? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Instead of running your own business. Then you don't need to provide your quality and skills to anyone, and it can make more money in the long run as you are not limited to your salary and don't have to fear getting fired. If you know web-design and running Drupal, then start to work with those. Make your websites. Now, learning some information about other subjects will help. Learn things like marketing, SEO and in general running a business. Most of the information can be found on webmaster forums. Then it's up to you - you can even sell your services to local businesses. You also have the added benefit of working with your projects instead of someones else, which is always more boring.

      It seems like most people, especially geeks, want to take the easy route and try get a job. Being self-employed or running a business isn't all that hard and it is much more rewarding, especially for a computer geek now in internet age.

      In this economy I'd take a salary (certainty) over the kudos of being an entrepreneur (uncertainty) any day of the week. Competition is stiff in the web dev/design market. Makes much more sense to throw your lot in with a group of established designers and developers that have a client book.

      As an alternative, I'd suggest looking at big corporates that have marketing/web dev teams and apply for those jobs instead. You're less likely to be as harshly scrutinised by people as clued up as yourself and your salary is not dependent on how many clients you secure or websites you build as your job will be focused on your own company's website. Whilst not a long-term solution, it may be the viable in road you are looking for.

    2. Re:Why do you want to be hired? by Anrego · · Score: 5, Informative

      It seems like most people, especially geeks, want to take the easy route and try get a job. Being self-employed or running a business isn't all that hard and it is much more rewarding, especially for a computer geek now in internet age.

      Guilty!

      I hate marketing stuff, I hate business stuff, and I really hate "networking" .. what I love is building software. I'm happy to be able to come in, do my thing, and let someone else worry about all that other shit. Long as I'm reasonably well treated and paid... I'm happy being a wage slave.

      I suspect the same is true of most geeks. As a community we are not known for wanting to wear suits, speak in buzzwords, work with excel and powerpoint, etc. Some pull it off, and some even enjoy it, but I think for the most part we like to be in the background doing our thing while the "suits" figure out how to make money from it.

    3. Re:Why do you want to be hired? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Being self-employed or running a business isn't all that hard

      You obviously have never run a business before.
      As a coder who has done exactly that for the past 10 years, I can say, it can be a real slog.

      Agreed I am now earning more than I could employed, but the first 5 years are make it or break it.
      Not knowing where your next mouthful is coming from requires certain nerves. You will under sell yourself.
      If you are doing it alone (like I have done) it is even worse, you can lose touch with peers to be able to pulse local market direction.
      IMHO it requires an immense amount of discipline, a stable mind, good communication skills (which many coders lack) and a little luck.

      I had no idea what I was getting myself into when I started.
      Though maybe that was a good thing. I do have no regrets.

    4. Re:Why do you want to be hired? by JoeMerchant · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Being self-employed or running a business isn't all that hard and it is much more rewarding, especially for a computer geek now in internet age.

      Having worked in various sized companies, from self-employed through 10, 20 and 500-1000 people, it became apparent to me that all businesses need:

      1) Sales and Marketing
      2) Accounting
      3) A product

      If you have no interest in 1) or 2), being self-employed is not for you. Also, when taking into account what you get paid for your "Product" as a coder, bear in mind the hours invested in Sales, Marketing, and Accounting for essentially zero compensation..

    5. Re:Why do you want to be hired? by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In this economy I'd take a salary (certainty) over the kudos of being an entrepreneur (uncertainty) any day of the week.

      I would too. After seeing a program about successful entrepreneurs I think this means that neither of us are cut out for running a business. The ones who succeeded often did so after several attempts, putting in long hours, sinking their own assets into the business, failing and then doing it over again. They had a drive and ultimate confidence in themselves that meant that they would never be happy taking the safer option of a salary, unless it was short term during which they would scrimp and save what they needed to start another business.

    6. Re:Why do you want to be hired? by billcopc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Being self-employed or running a business isn't all that hard

      I wish you had said that at the beginning of your post, so I could have stopped reading. This is absolutely false!

      You can be the most brilliant technician in the universe, and still crater your business if you don't have the sales persistence to turn those technical skills into money, and the support team to handle users' invariably simple problems while you focus on the next big thing, whether that's the next version of your product, or a separate item with strong cross-marketing potential. Just because a handful of ethically-questionable teenagers won the dot-com lottery, does not mean the same will happen to anyone with basic web development skills they picked up from a few Youtube videos narrated by 12-year-olds.

      To the OP: if you want to find work, contact staffing/contracting agencies near you. They will find you paying gigs, and the experience you gain there will be more valuable than any paper knowledge you have amassed up to this point. There are lots of hobbyists like you, but companies are interested in people who can efficiently solve business challenges. If you really want to stick with web development as a serious career, then start putting together a portfolio. Don't rely on web sites staying up indefinitely with your old code, take screenshots and document them, briefly explaining (to prospective clients) why you were the right person for the job and what kind of unique or high-level skills helped bring it together. Take a dozen of your best examples and arrange them into a nice sleek gallery page. Get stupid old business cards printed with an eye-catching design and a memorable URL to your portfolio, and pass them around. You want people to see your work, be wowed, and contact you because you're the designer/developer they want for their business. Sell yourself!

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    7. Re:Why do you want to be hired? by cultiv8 · · Score: 5, Informative
      I've run my own one-man Drupal shop for 6 years, keep this in mind if you decide to go this route:
      • It'll take 3-5 years to build a decent portfolio and client list
      • You only get paid when your clients pay you (it can be feast or famine)
      • Find a Drupal/PHP programmer who can do the stuff you can't or don't want to do
      • Go to DrupalCon, Drupal meetups, Drupal camps, etc. MEET PEOPLE IN YOUR SITUATION.
      • But don't confuse this with networking; go to Chamber of Commerce events, tradeshows, BNI, etc. GET CLIENTS
      • Volunteer, freely give advice, offer discounts to non-profits, help out on Drupal forums, etc.

      Most of this is business advice, not Drupal advice, but it all goes hand-in-hand. Make a name for yourself. Be good at what you do. Manage expectations with clients. Get a brochure and business cards. Write a blog; I wrote a book on Drupal which has been amazing for business.

      This economy is a bitch. Good luck if you start your own thing.

      --
      sysadmins and parents of newborns get the same amount of sleep.
    8. Re:Why do you want to be hired? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Funny

      As a community we are not known for wanting to wear suits, speak in buzzwords, work with excel and powerpoint, etc. Some pull it off, and some even enjoy it

      I believe the technical term for such people is "assholes".

      This is not my own opinion. I know several programmers, and have heard many variations on, "You know that guy Chad? The assistant team leader who's always in a suit, with the buzzwords and the powerpoint? Yeah, you know, the asshole."

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    9. Re:Why do you want to be hired? by TheLink · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The other thing is you never see a program about those who still haven't succeeded after going bankrupt a few times... And that certainly does happen - just doesn't make for a good show I guess ;).

      I've eaten at restaurants that have failed, and sometimes I have no idea why they aren't a success. Price reasonable, food is good, location is about the same as the successful ones, but no customers.

      I'm sure you've seen those books where one rich guy says he succeeded by not giving up. Then you have another book where a rich guy says he succeeded by knowing when to quit. Then you have another rich guy saying he succeeded by starting many different businesses at the same time and closing down the ones that don't succeed. Then you have yet another rich guy saying he succeeded by focusing on one thing... Another rich guy says "buy property", but if you bought the wrong property < 2008, you'd now be stuck paying off a loan that's a lot more than your property. So good luck figuring out what the real secret to success is.

      --
    10. Re:Why do you want to be hired? by John+Courtland · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So good luck figuring out what the real secret to success is.

      Upbringing, networking, persistence, work and a hefty dose of luck.

      --
      Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
    11. Re:Why do you want to be hired? by Moryath · · Score: 5, Informative

      What do all these books have in common?

      Oh yeah, they all STARTED with a big-ass pile of cash that they could fritter away on risk.

      Like the recent Republican debate - Gingrich talks about Bill Gates being a "high school dropout" who founded Microsoft, but he fails to mention that Gates was the prep-schooled son of upper 0.5%'ers who had a ton of mommy and daddy's money to pay Paul Allen (the real programming genius of the company) and later to front in order to buy 86-DOS from Seattle Computer.

      Funny how that all tends to work out only for those who already inherited wealth.

    12. Re:Why do you want to be hired? by beadfulthings · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I agree with you wholeheartedly. WordPress is keeping the wolf away from the door here, and no one could be more surprised than I am. I came at it from a slightly different angle--I quit ten years ago after 20 years in IT in order to pursue my interests as an artist. While I always had a few Web clients, sudden widowhood and some acute financial worries made me take a closer look. A little attention to my "product" has paid off. My suggestions would be:

      1) Run your business like the big guys do. Learn how to prepare a proposal and a statement of work, and use them properly.
      2) Engineers and project managers are two different species. When you run your own business, you have to be both. Watch your time and billable hours. Beware of "scope creep," which can be your worst enemy.
      3) Develop a website for yourself as your first reference account. Lavish all the time, love and care on it that you possibly can. While it would be nice to use it to generate online leads, don't hold your breath for that. Use it instead as your online business card and portfolio--something prospective clients can review. It is the developer's equivalent of the artist's online portfolio.
      4) Consider doing at least one "pro bono" site for a local organization or charity you care about. Local is key so they can become a reference.
      5) See if you can find a niche. I fell into one related to my artwork, and it's a comfortable spot.
      6) Consider eventually offering hosting services. I found that a berth on a cloud site was not all that expensive. I house my clients there and provide them with backups, maintenance, security, and upgrades. They pay a monthly fee for the hosting and pay separately as needed for maintenance and upgrades. Small businesses appreciate not being abandoned to the wolves, and they like having a Web droid available by telephone.

      I'm not trying to build the next Apple. I'm just making a living, and it seems to be working quite well.

      --
      "Here's what's happening. You're starting to drive like your Dad..." - Red Green
    13. Re:Why do you want to be hired? by CmdrPony · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bill Gates might had have rich parents, but Steve Jobs certainly didn't. He was adoption child and really poor in his young adult years, even up to the point that he collected money for food by returning empty bottles to a store. He also dropped out of school.

      Sure, having loads of cash helps. But it isn't required, and certainly not something that guarantees success.

    14. Re:Why do you want to be hired? by nahdude812 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's a little like saying that Michael Jordan can jump really high, so if you work hard enough you can too. Most people aren't Michael Jordan, so no matter how hard they try they're never going to jump that high. But even if they were such a one-in-7-billion people, they're not in the right place at the right time. Golden opportunities are rare, and very minor changes in circumstance would have had Steve Jobs be a name we recognize only once we've looked it up on Wikipedia, and that's if he made the notability cut. He succeeded because all the big money bet in a different direction, and they lost that bet.

      If you use Steve as an example that money isn't required for success, you might as well be advocating that people play the lottery instead, the odds are not as long, and you could then take your winnings and found a company with a respectable shot at success.

    15. Re:Why do you want to be hired? by aqui · · Score: 5, Informative

      I working in IT now despite not having any related qualifications on paper at the moment. I'm working towards getting those credentials though. I got in through networking and getting my PMP (project management professional) certification. I'm currently working towards becoming an enterprise architect (certified).

      A couple of key things to getting in the door (past HR):

      1) HR people are all about risk reduction. HR staff don't get rewarded for hiring good staff, but they do get fired for hiring too many bad ones. From an HR perspective ideally you have 1) credentials (including degrees) 2) a track record of performance 3) come recommended by someone they know (someone in the company will do). Typically anyone having all 3 won't turn out to be a bad hire. They don't hire for intelligence and capability, they are looking to be able to cover their asses in case you turn out to suck. Whatever you do don't lie on your resume, if even the smallest thing is determined to be untrue HR will drop you like a hot potato.

      Keeping the above in mind most applicants have some credentials (1), some experience (2) and no internal recommendation (3).

      To get credentials spend the money and get some certifications in the area you work in or others related. Pick credentials in areas where you already know the material and have had some experience as well as frequently occurring as a requirement in the type of jobs that interest you, buy the prep books and study and you can be certified inside of a month or two for $300-1000. You can list credentials you are "working towards" as well (helps with the keyword search).

      2) Networking (not the computer kind), If you haven't started building a network (of people) start now. Set the objective to add 1-2 people to your network every week (during your job search) once you're employed continue to do this 1-2 people per month. Use a tool like Linked in. Once you get about 30 or more people in your Linked in Network it becomes useful in that you can find someone you can be introduced to that may be able to help.

      Key concept in networking: its about informal meetings 10-15 min, at the convenience of the person you want to talk to, to do these things:
      1) give something back (listen, or share something that interests them).
      2) create the opportunity to meet other people in the area you want to work in
      3) learn about the industry you want to work in.
      Finding an opening or opportunity and reference from the inside are not the primary objective.
      By giving I mean: treat the person with respect like a person, only ask them for what they can give you (aka do not ever ask for a job), ask them for advice, ask them how they got to where they are, and make them feel like you care and are listening (this is the give back).

      Think about it from the networking contacts side. Imagine you're the contact: A colleague (Bob) you trust emails you and writes I'd like to introduce you to an interesting guy (you), he's trying to learn about our industry and find out what he need s to know to be able to fit in. A day latter you get a polite email from the guy asking if you'd be willing to share your expertise and advice in a 15 min meeting at a coffee place and time convenient to you or to talk to you by phone for 10-15 min. You agree to meet because 1) you trust Bob, 2) you're curious 3) you have 15 min 4) its convenient 5) it beats working ;).

      In the meeting you talk about your own success and answer a few interesting questions and generally feel good about your own success. You leave the meeting feeling like you met an interesting person with good questions (that you could answer). The person emails you a day or two later and asks a follow up question or two and if you have any suggestions of people you know in the industry that would be good to talk to. You liked the guy so you offer to introduce him to Keith and Sharol two of your suppliers. You also agree to join his network on Linked in.

      So now how does a network translate into a

      --
      ----- "Profanity is the one language that all programmers understand."
  2. Examples by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Show examples. Show your hobby projects. Show sites that you've built and that currently are in use. Show contributions you've made to open source projects.

  3. Portfolio & Certification by chill · · Score: 5, Informative

    What you're looking for is a portfolio. They're common in any artistic arena such as photography, web design, hair styling and fashion.

    You need to SHOW people what you have done, using examples relevant to what the potential employer would be interested in.

    Also, just to make the HR people happy, get some certifications.

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  4. Demonstrable experience - with evidence in support by RogueyWon · · Score: 5, Informative

    Evidence, evidence, evidence.

    I don't work in the IT or compsci sectors, but I think there are a few general principles about how recruitment works that you might want to note.

    You don't have formal educational qualifications. Obviously, that's a handicap. However, you're not in a field here where qualifications are a legal requirement (unlike, say, medicine or law), so it's not insurmountable.

    Some employers still have a policy of requiring a degree from all applicants, but - personal view here -in many cases they're foolish to do so. In the current climate, a lot of bright people are choosing not to take on the expense and debt associated with a degree. I see a lot of employers insisting "graduates only" who are achieving little except needlessly inflating the starting salary they need to offer (though by less than in the past - the graduate premium isn't what it was).

    I've done a fair old bit of recruitment over the last decade or so and what a sensible employer will be looking for - when recruiting people for their "first proper job" - can be distilled down to: a degree of committment (as in, ability to stick at something which is difficult and takes time), reasonable interpersonal skills and, where appropriate, technical competence.

    Interpersonal skills you'll need to demonstrate at interview (and by writing a half-way competent CV and application form). The ability to stick with something and technical competence might traditionally be demonstrated - to a basic level - by the fact that the applicant has both had the perserverence and the ability necessary to earn a degree (though with degrees as debased as they are these days, it's increasingly difficult to use this as a firm indicator).

    So without a degree, you will need to have independent evidence of committment and technical ability. You've done some freelance projects - that's good. The companies you did them for may have gone under, but you kept your own work, right? Right? And maybe if those companies aren't around any more, there's less of an issue in sharing the work you did for them as part of your application?

    In addition, if you've done any non-technical work - even just office admin and stuff - that's also good and worth including in your job applications - particularly if you can get a reference. It shows you can get along with people in an office environment on a day to day basis, turn up for work on time, follow basic codes of conduct and so on (which is something that a surprising number of people - even graduates - in some fields especially graduates - fail at). Don't under-estimate this one. As a recruiter, in 95% of cases, I'd rather see a few summers spent temping in a "serious" workplace on a CV than some glamorous, expensive (and usually irrelevant) piece of gap-year do-goodery.

    Remember, being at a technical disadvantage, you'll need to use hard facts to sell yourself so far as possible. Part of TFS reads like a "personal statement" from a CV. Saying stuff like "I'm personable and self-motivated" is all well and good, but it won't get you a job. You'll need concrete evidence to demonstrate your skills and your ability to stick with a task. So yeah, I hope you kept all that evidence of your previous work.

  5. Portfolio by zcomuto · · Score: 5, Informative

    Portfolio, portfolio, portfolio.

    Don't let a piece a paper show a potential employee that you have the skills on just that, paper, actually show them what you're capable of. Build a portfolio of work, showcasing your best products and sell yourself through that.

    If an employeer doesn't respect or look to the portfolio of a potential employee in that line of work, truth be told they probably aren't worth working for.

  6. First hand advice by un4given · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I am a self-taught geek, similar to you. I was a construction worker, and I wanted to change careers. I don't have a college degree. I built my skills by taking a few night classes at a local community college and by spending a couple of hours a night (or more), every night, working in my home lab, doing networking/IT kinds of things, and writing code. Next, I got a job doing some IT work for a construction company, on a project where a lot of construction knowledge was needed.

    After I got to the point where I felt comfortable with my skills, I put together a resume and got an interview with a small IT consulting company. I offered the company the following deal: Pay me whatever you want for 90 days. If at the end of that time I have demonstrated sufficient ability I want a raise to market rates. If not, I will move on, no hard feelings. Within 45 days, I got the raise. Within 3-4 years, I was making 100k a year.