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How Does a Self-Taught Computer Geek Get Hired?
An anonymous reader writes "I'm essentially a self-taught computer geek who started learning BASIC at age 12, but decided NOT to do the traditional computer-nerd thing (comp sci or physics, computer degree, etc.). I've essentially kept up with computers as a hobby, teaching myself web-design, Linux/LAMP, Javascript, and now Drupal. I've worked for a short time at a web dev shop but mostly have just done freelance projects and here-and-there stuff for websites or projects, many of which have gone under or are no longer accessible. I'm creative, have Photoshop/GIMP skills, I'm personable and self-motivated...and I'd like to get a 'real' job now but I don't really look like much on paper — how can I (specifically with Drupal) make myself look good on a CV and/or establish solid credentials that will make people more willing to take a chance and hire me? Will Drupalcon 2012 help me make inroads? Are there other ways to 'prove' myself to be a capable web admin/developer?"
Instead of running your own business. Then you don't need to provide your quality and skills to anyone, and it can make more money in the long run as you are not limited to your salary and don't have to fear getting fired. If you know web-design and running Drupal, then start to work with those. Make your websites. Now, learning some information about other subjects will help. Learn things like marketing, SEO and in general running a business. Most of the information can be found on webmaster forums. Then it's up to you - you can even sell your services to local businesses. You also have the added benefit of working with your projects instead of someones else, which is always more boring.
It seems like most people, especially geeks, want to take the easy route and try get a job. Being self-employed or running a business isn't all that hard and it is much more rewarding, especially for a computer geek now in internet age.
Show examples. Show your hobby projects. Show sites that you've built and that currently are in use. Show contributions you've made to open source projects.
http://groups.drupal.org/jobs also, be active in drupal projects and build a name for yourself.
What you're looking for is a portfolio. They're common in any artistic arena such as photography, web design, hair styling and fashion.
You need to SHOW people what you have done, using examples relevant to what the potential employer would be interested in.
Also, just to make the HR people happy, get some certifications.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
You need to work on a helpdesk.
If your lucky you will be noticed. Don't try to show off.
Learn an Enterprise Class OS. AIX. Solaris. HP-UX.
Profit.
If you feel you have the qualifications, try to get a contract job through a contract agency.
I'd also recommend, when looking at the jobs requirements, do what you can to meet as many qualifications as possible, that includes getting certificates that they require, like A+, etc.
Once you get one contract, even a short term one, you can put that on your resume and go from there to find others later on down the road.
Evidence, evidence, evidence.
I don't work in the IT or compsci sectors, but I think there are a few general principles about how recruitment works that you might want to note.
You don't have formal educational qualifications. Obviously, that's a handicap. However, you're not in a field here where qualifications are a legal requirement (unlike, say, medicine or law), so it's not insurmountable.
Some employers still have a policy of requiring a degree from all applicants, but - personal view here -in many cases they're foolish to do so. In the current climate, a lot of bright people are choosing not to take on the expense and debt associated with a degree. I see a lot of employers insisting "graduates only" who are achieving little except needlessly inflating the starting salary they need to offer (though by less than in the past - the graduate premium isn't what it was).
I've done a fair old bit of recruitment over the last decade or so and what a sensible employer will be looking for - when recruiting people for their "first proper job" - can be distilled down to: a degree of committment (as in, ability to stick at something which is difficult and takes time), reasonable interpersonal skills and, where appropriate, technical competence.
Interpersonal skills you'll need to demonstrate at interview (and by writing a half-way competent CV and application form). The ability to stick with something and technical competence might traditionally be demonstrated - to a basic level - by the fact that the applicant has both had the perserverence and the ability necessary to earn a degree (though with degrees as debased as they are these days, it's increasingly difficult to use this as a firm indicator).
So without a degree, you will need to have independent evidence of committment and technical ability. You've done some freelance projects - that's good. The companies you did them for may have gone under, but you kept your own work, right? Right? And maybe if those companies aren't around any more, there's less of an issue in sharing the work you did for them as part of your application?
In addition, if you've done any non-technical work - even just office admin and stuff - that's also good and worth including in your job applications - particularly if you can get a reference. It shows you can get along with people in an office environment on a day to day basis, turn up for work on time, follow basic codes of conduct and so on (which is something that a surprising number of people - even graduates - in some fields especially graduates - fail at). Don't under-estimate this one. As a recruiter, in 95% of cases, I'd rather see a few summers spent temping in a "serious" workplace on a CV than some glamorous, expensive (and usually irrelevant) piece of gap-year do-goodery.
Remember, being at a technical disadvantage, you'll need to use hard facts to sell yourself so far as possible. Part of TFS reads like a "personal statement" from a CV. Saying stuff like "I'm personable and self-motivated" is all well and good, but it won't get you a job. You'll need concrete evidence to demonstrate your skills and your ability to stick with a task. So yeah, I hope you kept all that evidence of your previous work.
As stated before..Take on some odd jobs (or do some demo work, not for a customer, but for building a portfolio). Once you have a decent size portfolio, showing how well you do in the field, you should be able to find an employer to 'take a risk' on you. (I say that loosely because although you could be the best programmer/designer ever, unfortunately you dont have a piece of paper backing that up). I was in a similar boat as you, only with Programming more so than design (C#, C++, AS3, etc). Once you build out a small little resume you can substitute a formal degree with work experience. I'm at my third programming job now (prior was a contract job and most recent was a game studio that shut down). All is well and the money is good, you just have to be patient and take your lumps. (Remember that youre technically 4yrs ahead of the curve. So even if you get a low(er) paying job, youre still coming out ahead.
Portfolio, portfolio, portfolio.
Don't let a piece a paper show a potential employee that you have the skills on just that, paper, actually show them what you're capable of. Build a portfolio of work, showcasing your best products and sell yourself through that.
If an employeer doesn't respect or look to the portfolio of a potential employee in that line of work, truth be told they probably aren't worth working for.
You have to show you skills. Make a name for yourself. Contribute validly to some projects.
If you're skills ultimately are matter of 'gimp' playing-around? Than you're probably screwed and haven't learned anything real yet.
(Well, unless you want to specialize in photo-editing or graphic-design or some-such... in which case, community college might be your best bet) If you want to be hired as a coder, without the often-times nonsense of formal education, than you have to prove yourself. Contribute to a meaningful opensource project. Be noticed for contributing some code that actually does something (vs. confused bug reports). Real skill is rare enough, and a resume that shows an active participation and contribution to a notable project is probably a better thing that a formal accreditation (from many schools, at least).
---
the pen is mightier than the sword, the sword is mightier than the court, the court is mightier than the pen.
You should start contributing to drupal modules and eventually becoming a maintainer for some modules.
The drupal community and market share is really huge, so the are many openings for people with decent skills.
The only thing that you need (except the skills and experience) is some visibility and credibility. You want to be the guy who make things done, and others will notice you.
Those kind of contribution is also a huge bonus in your CV and you got that while contributing to the community, so it's a win-win scenario.
That's just my 2 cents ofc.
Not knocking Drupal or any other CMS, but don't get yourself boxed into just one specific platform. Keep up on where the overall development world is going.
Most shops still build their websites in-house from scratch, without a CMS. Many strictly-Microsoft shops purposely avoid using Sharepoint, for example.
Remember when ColdFusion was a big deal? Not so anymore. GoDaddy is dropping it from their hosting accounts.
Keep your foot in general Java or .NET or PHP development... stay focused on the bigger picture, not just in a specific type of project. Watch the trends. What may be popular today will become passe tomorrow.
The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
Build a portfolio of good work. Do work for charities if that's what it takes. Most employers will be more impressed by examples of what you can do than by a diploma from a Java factory. Of course, all this relies on the assumption that you are good, which if I'm honest, has not been my experience with 100% self-taught developers and that goes double for self-taught PHP developers. If you want to make yourself stand out, you might want to consider other languages. A developer who only knows 1 language is rarely an indicator of quality. Learn Python or Ruby and you'll stand out from the Graphic Designer wannabee developer crowd.
Basically, it is not possible for any prospective employer to assess your skills. Programming skills, sure, but there is a lot of other important things you learn when getting a degree. These are hard to assess in your case. Sure, there are a lot of incompetent people _with_ a degree, but you can usually spot them, because they do not have the hands-on skills.
My advice would be that for the moment stay self-employed and start to work on getting that degree. I have taught several classes for people that were in your situation (i.e. already working for some years but no degree) and all that I met later though it was very much worthwhile getting it. This was for a BA in EE (with a lot of comp-sci) and some went on to get an MA in addition. The problem here is that until you are fairly advanced in your studies, you do not see that the work is indeed worthwhile. For example, if you are smart then one thing you learn is that concrete technologies are almost meaningless and there is a whole layer of meta-technology behind them, which is eminently worthwhile picking up.
So, no, a degree is not worth a lot by itself, but if you are already reasonably good in a field, it is what you need to advance. And I am not talking about the piece of paper here, although that also has some importance.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
You've been doing stuff so you have code to show off and you should do just that. That will make a huge difference whether you have a degree or not.
If you see a job lead you are interested in, find a way to contact whoever is doing the hiring directly and avoid HR. They never know what IT qualifications are, so they end up hiring fresh college grads and cert chasers. If you are good and have natural ability, get some face time with the people doing the hiring/requesting. Once you convince them they might want you, passing your resume through HR becomes trivial.
Said in the tone of "Plastics" from The Graduate: "Contacts."
If you've got no paper (diplomae), there is no other way to get paid what you are worth. Your prospective employer needs to know what you are able to do for them before they commit to pay you. Also, the fact that you haven't put up with the standard Academia B.S. calls into question whether or not you will put up with the standard workplace B.S. You need personal contacts who can vouch for your abilities and work ethic over a beer.
Actually, people with lots of degrees can benefit from that too, if they want to get good jobs without having to move across the country.
For some of the Drupal-shops, including the one I work at, community involvement is highly rated. Contribute to the larger modules, Views/Panels, or Core itself. Get some CTR-rating. (certifiedtorock.com). The number may look meaningless, but people look it up when they are introduced to a new "Drupal-person". You can ping 'letharion', me on IRC if you wanna get involved in the community. DrupalCon sounds like an excellent place to go, people are often recruiting at them. If it gives you more hope, my employer, NodeOne, has a large percentage of people with similar backgrounds as your, including myself. That said, CmdrPony makes a good point. Why not do something of your own?
I am a self-taught geek, similar to you. I was a construction worker, and I wanted to change careers. I don't have a college degree. I built my skills by taking a few night classes at a local community college and by spending a couple of hours a night (or more), every night, working in my home lab, doing networking/IT kinds of things, and writing code. Next, I got a job doing some IT work for a construction company, on a project where a lot of construction knowledge was needed.
After I got to the point where I felt comfortable with my skills, I put together a resume and got an interview with a small IT consulting company. I offered the company the following deal: Pay me whatever you want for 90 days. If at the end of that time I have demonstrated sufficient ability I want a raise to market rates. If not, I will move on, no hard feelings. Within 45 days, I got the raise. Within 3-4 years, I was making 100k a year.
Apply to tech support at Dell. They're hiring dozens of techs right now. They'll probably try you out if you interview. Then you make many technical contacts (100+) for other positions.
Like most of the rest of us, you have to understand at the core level what you're going to be delivering and to whom one day. Learn what users are actually like and live the hell we all have at one point or another.
A degree isn't only about training. It is just as much evidence that you can set a long term goal and achieve it, and jump through all of the hoops necessary along the way. After hiring a number of people with and without degrees, I find it says a lot about their attitude towards how to accomplish something. I'm not saying it is bad, only different, and that employers pay attention to those things. I would add to other advice here that you should highlight long term accomplishments. If you set up and ran your own consulting business for a while, that would help to convince me that you are not looking to just hop from the easiest thing to the easiest thing and can really persevere through the BS to get the job done.
Maybe it will work for you??
Oblig link
Be Excellent To Each Other
I have the same problem. I have self taught my self how to program. Seriously if you want to learn how to code these days there are tons of internet tutorials. It's almost more efficient to learn and produce some results.
My suggestion is to produce as many commercial products as possible and add it to your resume. I personally made 20 iphone apps. Most people just assume I have an engineering or comp sci degree.
I call B.S. If you really have authored 20 iPhone apps, where is your self-serving plug-link in your sig?
If your portfolio consists of stuff that's gone offline, make something new. A web site about yourself would be good start. Another –completely different in design – dedicated to your favorite not-embarrassing hobby would be a good idea. The content doesn't have to be extensive or outstanding (though it wouldn't hurt if it could bring in a little ad revenue), just enough to demonstrate your design and development skills.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Networking is important. Since your resume/CV isn't likely to turn any heads, someone more established recommending you can go a long way. Friends, online contacts, people you meet at conferences, anyone you can think of to get in your corner will be a big boost.
Have examples to show that you can do the work you claim you can. The Almighty Degree isn't the barrier it used to be, but at some point you will have to show that you can do the work. Also read as much as you can about the technologies you want to work with. You have to be able to be conversant in them during the interview. It isn't difficult to spot someone who is faking it.
Try very hard to work on a team. You'll learn a lot from a group of developers, including what habits are good to pick up and which ones to avoid. Understand, and accept, that you're likely to start close to the bottom as a junior programmer. Not a bad thing, really. Gives you a chance to get a lot of experience, and if the company you're with is the sort that doesn't believe in advancing programmers through their careers, more experience will equal better opportunities elsewhere.
So years later, I ended up being a computer repair specialist, because I was also good at ripping apart a computer and putting it back together again. But trying to get a job in computer programming has been massively elusive for me. However, every time I have gotten close, someone has been interested mainly because of something I was able to show them as "proof" I knew what I was doing. Without that, I doubt they'd even take a second look.
Sarbonn's blog: http://www.sarbonn.com/blog
Slightly different story. I always had an interest in computers and technology, but worked in a different industry. When it came time to make the leap, I had no skills, no experience, nothing. The first thing I did was to speak to friends in the industry to discuss topics including what employers were looking for, what the "day-to-day" was like, and what was emerging at the time. Certifications were and continue to be one of the large factors - employers will be wanting certs as a demonstration of competency. So the first thing I did was block some time, study, and obtain an IT cert. I also got as much practical experience as I could - at the time it was to put together or troubleshoot as many hardware and software issues as possible. I also learned Linux and Windows from the ground, up. I was then ready to start my own business. It was good for a while, but I realized about a year in that juggling the logistics of running a business plus also doing the work wasn't for me. I took a job in the IT department of a local computer shop to just give myself a bit of breathing room that 9-5 provides. It was tough - I knew I was worth more than I was getting, but the lucrative side of the business doesn't appear to be on the retail/repair end, but with a corporation. Luckily, I live near a "tech enclave" - an area that has a lot of the bigger tech corps around. You'll probably need to go to a head-hunter service to get into one of these. You may be hired on a contract basis, for a limited length of time. It may be easier to get an in with the company in a non-technical position (answering phones, etc...), as some post-secondary (ie. a degree) may be required for new hires wanting technical positions. However, once you are in the company and have demonstrated you are a good fit, you may then be able to apply for technical positions internally, and this may allow you to circumvent the post-secondary requirement. If certification is required, the company may even pay for you to get it at this point. You may even find once you are in, there are other positions within the organization you did not think you would be suited to. Good luck!
You don't have to do the four year marathon. You can do contract work to pay for your tuition. In the end, you'll make up for the tuition spent by making more salary than possible without that degree,
Of course you could go the self employment route, the success stories are few and you'll get paid less than a college grad for your talents.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
A degree isn't only about training. It is just as much evidence that you can set a long term goal and achieve it, and jump through all of the hoops necessary along the way.
Not having a degree myself, I find this answer patronizing and just plain wrong. There are many circumstances whee not having a degree is no fault of your ow (including lack of funds/loans, better opportunities, etc). At this point in time, a degree is simply a "checkbox" item for HR to use to filter candidates. No degree, no chance as HR tosses your resume before it gets to anyone doing the actual hiring. So the real problem for you is how to get through the HR filter.
The real trick to landing a job in this situation is who you know. Get out there and talk to people. Show your skills in a way non-tech people can "get". Impress the right people, and keep them in your back pocket. Every decent job I've had has come by impressing the right people and having them think of me when they see a need. By doing this, they are willing to stick their neck out and tell HR "Interview this guy, regardless of resume".
So while a portfolio is helpful, getting your face out there, having conversations, and attending conferences are all part of getting a name/face for yourself. I got my first real job by refusing to sell someone a product they didn't understand. They ended up hiring me because of my honesty and the fact I was willing to say "no this isn't what you're looking for".
your resumée sounds like mine. you just chose drupal over django, a choice i never would have made. php is over, really. it was only popular as long ASP and JSP were feared to become mainstream, now we have serious tools in the web, php is just the cheap aftertaste of the 90s.
also, with php you are basicly locked into the web business.
it does not matter how you are educated and which papers you have, getting a job is
1. look who needs you and what is to do
2. know what you want to do
3. pick.
unfortunately, it depends on your country how you answer these question, it does not garantuee good salary to do what you love to, and lastly: sometimes it takes time. long time. life is up and down. so in the meantime, look that you can survive, and use your free time to conceive your own projects.
ah, last advice: people always advice. while you should take out compliments and critics of advices to consider, you should never think, anybody else than you can know whats best for your life. i think this is the best advice i ever got, just takes a bit to get it.
how can I (specifically with Drupal)
Bad idea to focus too narrowly. Your average suit might not even know what Drupal is. Keep an open mind. The job you get manipulating Joomla or Wordpress might lead eventually to your "dream Drupal job"... however...
So, I think I wanna do BGP routing on Cisco routers because I happen to have years of experience and I'm extremely good at it. That's nice, if only there were any hiring spots for that skillset at a location and salary I can tolerate. "Meanwhile" I'm working with RoR and Perl and a variety of SQL backends. Heck I don't even know if I wanna go back to being a router jockey, as if that opportunity will ever exist again for me. I really miss those weekly 2am on call emergencies, err, no not really. But this job puts me close both physically and technologically to the local OSPF operators, so if I wanted to, it would be an easy stepping stone back into routing and switching.
started learning BASIC at age 12
See, you're not trying to write CGI scripts in MSBasic so we know you've got an open mind... Go with the flow. Drupal is cool, don't get me wrong, but its not the end stage of technological progress or the end stage of your career unless you're in your 60s and planning on this being your toe-tag job.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Look for contract jobs advertised in the web in PeopleSoft, Oracle or Web design. Most of the listings will ask for qualifications and experience you don't have. But you are not looking for jobs. What you are looking for are the links to contractors who are looking for such jobs. Most of them are independent consultants. Some of them join together to own partnerships. Ask them to take you as an intern or a trainee and offer to work for free for three or six months to learn the job skills. They are likely to evaluate you based on your skills rather than qualifications. Once you break into this circuit, you survive by your skills, not by paper qualifications. Pay is good. Unemployment is low. Most of these jobs would require you to fly out on Sunday night and return on Thursday night to your home base. Jobs are called 4 by 10, for they put in 40 hours in four days.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Go to school!! That or get ready for many years of having to work harder just to prove yourself over and over again! Another alternative is contract to hire. That may work as well.
On another note,hopefully you have learned about the necessity of Version control. You also hopefully have been learning good CS practices such as only having one source for information (code functionality is information) abstraction etc. There are good reasons for these practices and the sooner you learn them the more valuable you will be.
Also, don't be a information hoarder or a primadona! Be willing to talk and work withouther sharing ideas and concepts. Sometimes the idiot next to you will surprise you with just all that he does really know.
Good luck!
Joe
-- Many men would appreciate a woman's mind more if they could fondle it
1) As a student, i started my own business to make some money while doing what i like, and built a portfolio with that. Despite being hired elsewhere i today still develop websites and webapplications in my spare time. http://staesit.nl/ Also its a great way to finance your hobby.
2) I also had a student job at a "detacheerder" as how its called in dutch. I don't know the correct term in english (temporary job?), but when visiting the dutch wiki page i see the english equilavent is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_work but it contains some (for me) weird implications.
In essence, as a student i did work for http://www.ogd.nl/ which had me work on client locations to consult on specific computer problems i had experience in, do helpdesk work, program small applications and develop solutions.
3) I also did voluntary work for several IT-related events. I developed a screen overlay system for internet broadcasts, and built a tournament matching system for Netgamez. (sadly nothing i built this way ever was opensourced, most where rather embedded solutions)
Hivemind harvest in progress..
Neo ? Is that joo ?
my local college gave me the run around trying to graduate. i had over 100 hours and straight A's but they kept changing the degree plan until i dropped out without even a 2yr degree. I applied at every computer store around, which was only 3. they all laughed at me. that's when i started my own business. that was 10 years ago. since then, i have put them all out of business. and i did it without ever advertising. all word of mouth. i do all the work for practically every business in the city (a little over 100). it wasn't easy, sometimes i work 16 hours/day, 7 days/week. I'm so happy today, i wouldn't work for somebody else for twice the salary. now if i can just figure out how to get rich too...
Everyone has already said 'You need a portfolio', and that is SO right. So I'll talk about the next step:
Find the right company.
The wrong company is a company that think college education means anything in and of itself. It doesn't. A portfolio shows your actual skill, and a good company will appreciate that. A good company will also have an interview that asks the right questions, and possibly asks you to show your ability. These are the companies you'll shine at. As a side effect, these are also good companies to work for, since they value skill and efficiency instead of paperwork.
But you still need that portfolio.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
Thats all I had to do.
It depends. If I'm hiring and I see a candidate with good grades in a sensible/relevant subject from a university I respect, then yes, the degree counts.
If I see a candidate with mediocre grades in Media Studies from an institution I don't respect, then I'll be fighting the temptation to assume that they went to university because they got to 18 and just followed what has, for many people, become the default path and then done the minimum to coast through. What that degree is demonstrating is that the candidate follows the path of least resistance. In those circumstances, I might be looking favourably upon a bright and enthusiastic 18 year old with some interesting extra-curricular projects who at least knows what he wants to do with his life.
In the days before the huge expansion of higher education, when going for a degree wasn't yet the default expectation for every middle-class kid, then yes, getting a degree almost always showed a degree of committment and dedication (or in a few cases, the luck and/or brilliance required to bypass those). Today, you have to be a bit more discerning.
If you are going for contract work, the last thing people actually do is check your degree or to a certain extent, your work history. Be warned, the agent will call old work places to find new contract leads.
They just want to know if you can do the job, that you can do it next week, and you can hit the ground running. If you can tick those boxes, everything else is irrelevant. If you are sh*t, expect to be out of your job pretty quickly. Never lie about skills you have no experience with ;)
If you did work for a company that has now collapsed, even better. They can't verify your work experience.
If you see a skill being mentioned with Drupal, e.g. Agile, then read up on it and understand it. Even go so far as to use it.
A CV is not about being honest in your past. It's about selling yourself, the skills you currently have and making people believe you are a solution to their problems.
Oh one other thing, you need a website of your own.
Most IT people suck at writing resumes. Shop around for someone who has placed a lot of IT workers -- or at least some! -- and go with them. If you have any friends who hired someone, see how they liked the person they worked with.
A good resume will get you noticed, and they'll know the buzzwords that local businesses are looking for.
First and foremost, don't convince yourself you're better than you really are. You need to be honest with yourself about your experience before you can be honest with a prospective employer.
Being self-taught doesn't suggest you don't know the technology, but *does* suggest you may not know a lot of other things that are critical that come from studying things in school -- process, teamwork, communication, etc ...
Basically, don't BS yourself into seeking jobs you really aren't qualified for, particularly in this market. You'll just waste your time, adn the time of those you're talking to. You're going to have to build up the credentials based on your work experience that you lack in formal education. (And, I can tell you as someone who has done a lot of hiring -- a lot of the comments here are wrong... you need actual *employment* exprience, not hobby projects to show your abilities, because as I said, doing something with a team, on a deadline, is very different than doing something by yourself.)
Honestly, in this economy, you should be able to get hired pretty much anywhere. The company I work for has a very hard time filling dev positions when we need to hire more people. You wouldn't happen to be somewhere in the US northeast? :)
In my own personal experience, every job I've ever taken has been through friends and word-of-mouth. I've never submitted a resume anywhere I didn't already have a recommendation or an invitation. Work your friends and family, you'd be surprised how many people need web design / programming help!
Also, WORK ON YOUR INTERVIEWING!!! Guy shows up for an IT interview with grease stains on his polo shirt? No fly. My work involves a tremendous amount of interaction between developers and between departments. The work is high-risk and requires thought and care. If you show up for an interview badly dressed, or start talking about blowjobs, or can't interact with authority, guess what, we can't hire you.
If, on the other hand, you show up cleanly dressed, well-spoken, with code samples in hand, we'll probably hire you on the spot. Even if you don't quite have the skill set we're looking for. Code samples are IMPORTANT! Have both UI screenshots, and code samples.
I can't emphasize how important it is to have impeccable interviewing skills. Get a friend who has done job interviewing to quiz your performance. Do a mock interview at a local cafe. Do 10.
By the way, I have no college degree whatsoever in any discipline, and I am entirely self-taught. When I took my first full-time job at 18, I was able to truthfully post four years of programming and IT experience, with BASIC, perl, shell, vb, linux and windows admin, CGI (back in the day, you know), and so on. It was all pretty lightweight on paper, but I got the job.
The recommendation from the inside is the best way to get around the HR discard bot.
First, not having a four-year degree has held me back more than once. It sucks, but that's the way it is. Strangely, I think I could've had a degree in just about anything as long as I had one.
Second, agencies that place you as a contractor someplace are good. That's how I got my current job. I started as a contractor, proved myself, and got hired full-time. My previous job was also as a contractor, after having been fired from the one before that (and therefore a high-risk candidate).
Third, have proof of your work handy. Provide code samples, screen shots, whatever you can produce quickly and conveniently in the interview. When I switched industries (going from working in industrial control systems to a true full-time software shop), I had a three-ring binder full of examples of my work. It was old-school, but (a) it was 2005, and (b) I wouldn't want the success of my interview to be dependent on an internet connection, no matter how reliable.
Finally, know people. Network. Make friends and stay in contact with them. I've obtained more than one job because of who I knew, not what I knew (especially early on, when I didn't know much).
Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. - John 14:6 NLT
I was like you. Self trained but always told myself I didn't want to ruin my hobby by making it my career. I went to school for non-CS, non-IT stuff. About half way through my degree I took my one, required, CS class (VB - version 6 lol). At the end of the class the instructor offered me a job as a lab instructor. So I was a Biology undergrad student teaching CS undergrad students. I figured at that point why not get an entry-level IT job somewhere. I went to a small company as an "intern". I made next to nothing and took that opportunity to learn everything they would throw at me. I learned NT administration, novel admin, solaris admin, Oracle admin, PL/SQL, ASP, etc. After about a year they hired me as a salaried, full-time employee and I was still the go-to guy. I inherited the responsibilities of anyone who left the department.
Admittedly, I was making WAY less than the work I was doing was worth. I stayed there 3 years and I consider that a major part of "paying my dues". It was my education. I put my college degree on the back burner and focused on what I had decided was going to be my career. I did finish my degree. It took me 8 years. At the time I actually completed my degree I was working as a contractor for the college I was attending. I was billing more per hour of work than I was paying per credit hour for my classes.
At my last full-time job I "paid it forward" finally. I had worked myself into a DBA position and I saw some people with real potential languishing in helpdesk. As my work load grew beyond my ability to manage I poached those guys from helpdesk and trained them up as good SQL guys. Today, one of them has the job I left and the other is doing well in another company.
You can do it this way. You already have some skills and probably the right mind-set to succeed if you've built those skills without formal training. Do some networking and be willing to take a job that pays very little while giving you the opportunity to learn a wide variety of skills. Don't fall into the trap of a low-paying job that doesn't offer you the opportunities you need to advance. There's a million of those out there. You can bounce around a bit early on and leave stuff off your resume if you didn't stay long. Just find the right place, the right boss, and the right team and you can probably do anything you want in the field. If you really like the work and the effort it takes to stay up to date and grow your skills you'll find a way to make it happen
because my story is almost exactly the same, although I did try (and fail) to motivate myself for campus. The Basic and Drupal stuff matches!
Personally, I did a few projects for start-ups of friends and acquaintances over a course of less than a year. Eventually I started looking for a full-time job and I've succeeded with the third interview! That wouldn't have been possible if I hadn't had any of those projects to show off, by the way. I did keep in mind to fill up a portfolio.
$(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)
Your resume` should be online. A decent website. You should perhaps create a few template sites to use as a portfolio of your work.
Once you've got those, then go chasing companies for work whether they are hiring or not. If you've got good skills you will find work. There are plenty of web "developers" out there who don't know shit from clay.
if you still can't find salary based work, then use our portfolio of sites to pimp yourself out freelance. Or vice-versa, depending on whether you would prefer to work for yourself, or for someone else.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Without a college degree or much previous job experience, your best bet is to have two or three gorgeous looking websites which are diverse enough to show some skill. Spend a couple months creating these sites. You will be able to quickly demonstrate your coding skill to an interested company.
Brush up your resume. Make it look clean and professional. Don't lie, but remember that it is advertising. You are allowed to exaggerate a bit.
Learn to interview well. This will make or break you. It's a crap shoot of luck until you get to a human interview. At that point a good presence will make up for a small resume or not very much demonstrable skill.
Hit sites like Monster or Dice. Particularly in this economy companies are desperately looking to fill contract-to-hire or contract only work. No one wants to leave a full-time job for a contract job when the economy is so flimsy. Capitalize on this. Get a bunch of contract work. You'll make good money, and you'll be building your resume and experience.
To get jobs and business, in general, you have to have a recognisable "name". This is essential if you don't have a degree. It replaces the diploma at a later stages of your career. When you get to having 10 years of experience or a "name", only the government institutions ask for a diploma.
My advice:
contribute to free software / open source projects, and in doing so grow thicker skin while interacting with them, as needed.
Point to those contributions as you look for a job in a smaller company, hopefully closer to FOSS, and with a less formal hiring attitude.
Be ready to move.
In the absence of formal schooling to get you the interview, get a few certifications. A quick google search tells me there are certs specifically for Drupal. You could also pick up some generic certs like A+. Since you're a Linux guy you could also get something similar to a RCSE from redhat. They'll cost you a few bucks and might require a week or so of study (assuming you already know most of the info). But they'll spice up that blank resume a bit and are a heck of a lot quicker than going back to college.
Once you get the interview, then you can sell yourself based on your self taught experience.
I think a lot of big companies won't look at you if you don't have a degree. It is a typical HR checkoff item and the dev manager may not even see your resume.
IF you are a 18 year old kid, you either take a chump change job at a small company and do $400 an hour quality work for $8.25 an hour and hope you don't work for a slave driver that will give you a crappy reference if you leave for better pay.
The long route is to prove yourself and create a "brand" online. Chris Prillio really does not know much about computers yet a LOT of people look at him as if he is an expert. It's because he hand crafted a brand for himself that is bigger than he is and he keeps it polished.
Finally. You are "self taught"... do you REALLY know something or do you think you know something? can you configure Cisco routers, understand TCP/IP completely that If I tell you a network scope you can give me the netmask? do you understand computer hardware far FAR better than the idiots at Best buy's Geek squad? Can you actually do something with the OS other than install apps? How about Active directory and Windows domain management on workstations?
IF you are "handy with puters" you are not employable, go get more education. And all of that is free. You can download Windows server enterprise edition and SQL server and all the goodies for free and use it for 30 days. then wipe the computers or VM's running it and reinstall again to learn the ins and outs of doing corperate Windows IT. if you look in the "dirty corners" of the internet you can also find cisco gear simulators that will let you have hands on Cisco configuration as well.
But you are supposed to buy those for nasty prices... It's actually cheaper to buy out of date used cisco gear if you really must stay legal.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I did the same thing in my life, except I went to college for about a year for a CS degree though I never finished. I think mostly if you dont have a degree they will look at job experience, if you don't have experience, be prepared to prove yourself. Ask an employer if they would be willing to let you sit with one of their top developers to prove that you know your stuff. Not only with that show initiative, but it will show that you are not afraid of working under pressure and the scrutiny of a experienced developer. This is my advice at least, and with this approach, I have never been turned down for job that I have interviewed for. You do have to be careful to pick jobs that aren't over your head though because it can also make you look rather silly if they are expecting something you aren't aware of.
Contacts, the people you know.
You can learn IT and CS from many resources, University or College or Library or related.
That's not the important part.
The important part of going to college, is making contacts and connections and gaining somewhat more exclusive opportunities.
In other words, get some influential connections.
I was in the same boat as you, having had a decade of experience making web sites and programming for NSCA Mosaic, but with no schooling to speak of that was relevant, no-one in my home-town would take a second look at my resume. I moved to NYC (but know that SF is similar, regarding qualification judgements), and found that everyone I talk to in the tech industry cares about what you're capable of, not what's on your resume. Now I'm a director at a fortune 500, and teach at one of the most prestigious design schools in the country. I still don't have a degree.
Entry-level non-IT at a large corporation or entry-level IT at a small local company are going to be your quickest and easiest proving grounds to get something on your resume. There, unfortunately, really isn't any substitute for solid experience on your resume.
If you choose non-IT at a large corporation, it's likely you will have access to the internal HR system within about a year or so, and job availability will be abundant. At that point, the easiest hop will be into low-end of the MBA-heavy business side of your company where non-techie business school types will lean on your technical prowess in a major way. You'll build a reputation, and you'll do a lot of things that will work well as resume-fodder. From there, a jump into an IT heavy role and do what you're good at.
If you're lucky enough to land a job in entry-level IT at a small company, you won't really need my guidance. If you know you're stuff, it's smooth sailing once you get in.
Remember, resume, resume, resume...
I don't have a degree.
I started programming at age 15, worked in a computer shop as a technician through high-school and got my first programming job during the high-tech bubble of 2000. I was 19 and had a bit of self-acquired java programming experience.
Then the market crashed. it was arguably MUCH worse then today's climate. I was a junior dev with 6 months "official" experience and no degree.
But i could talk, i could program and i was persistent. It took me 3 months to get a new job at lower pay but still a lot for my age.
Now, ten years later i lead a development team, i have written 3 major products from scratch and worked for several companies.
What i found was that my choice not to get a degree harmed my chances mostly with the larger firms. Smaller companies and especially start-ups care mostly about your skills and your experience and much less about your degree. I quit my last job during the crash of 2008 when companies were firing people left and right. i looked for a job for a total of 2 days. My current position and the one before that i got through contacts i made through the years.
It's that first job that is hardest to get. be prepared, be confident. Apply for a position you are slightly overqualified for.
Linked-in is your friend. Your business contacts and anyone you worked with and appreciates your skills can open doors that would be closed otherwise.
There's nothing more valuable then a personal recommendation from a respected contact. Ask your friends to help you. Even those who aren't in this field may know people that can help and their word can be just as valuable.
If you're self-taught, you might think you know how to program just because you can write an app on your own that doesn't crash.
However by doing a CS degree you should gain the understanding of why your own code until now sucks, how to do it right, and how to be an effective part of a team when developing larger projects (i.e. most commercial ones).
The problem is, while you may have the same skills as a college-taught programmer you don't have the little piece of paper to verify them. However, most people are finding that that little piece of paper doesn't necessarily convey these abilities either. You need to update your CV beyond just a paper format. Try submitting a link with your paper CV that can demonstrate your programming ability and highlight your creativity and capabilities. That way they don't just read about what skills you claim to have, they can see what you actually do. This'll help you rise to the top.
I like losing arguments, it just means that I can take your point and make it my own.
Programming in your basement is easy. Only a quarter (if that) of your classes for an actual degree are programming. All you mention are tools and languages, you're lacking tons of foundation and methodology. Sure colleges are in it to make money, but they are also in it to provide industry with what they are looking for. That includes the silly computer ethics, public speaking, etc, etc that most have to take.
Have you considered moving? Do a search on craigslist by various cities and see where the Drupal jobs are. Then move there. It's completely possible that you're just not where the jobs are.
Knowing a bit of web design or how to create a website in Drupal does not make you a "Computer Geek". It makes you a self taught web designer.
"My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
You need to have something to show for, regardless what you decide to do specifically. A degree from a decent school says that you've got a certain minimum education in lieu of actual experience. With increasing experience (and successful projects under your belt) it matters less and less whether you have a degree or not.
That said, if you want to do web design, then build a bunch of demo sites that show off what all you can do, in other words build yourself a portfolio that will not go away. Demonstrate style, variety, and quality. You'll have to demonstrate, too, that you listen to your clients, so you should have your demo sites answer a hypothetical client's specific needs. Be able to talk to potential clients about these needs and your approach/solution, thereby demonstrating that you're not a one-site-fits-all kind of designer.
And finally, you need to ensure that your name goes around. Recommendations (word of mouth) is what you need to generate, and lots of it.
--Udo.
It's neither wrong nor patronizing and if you'd read everything he said you'd understand that. No one is saying that only people with degrees are capable of setting long term goals and achieving them, but getting a degree is some evidence of having that ability. He even lists other ways that you might go about proving the same thing. Like it or not thing like degrees and certification are intangible benefits to those who have them. It doesn't mean you can't get a job without, it doesn't mean that you're going to get every job just because you've got a piece of paper or two, but for many (not all, but many) hiring managers a degree is a plus. In many cases, for good or ill, HR won't even consider people for some positions unless they have a degree.
Call it unfair if you wish. It doesn't change the facts. You can also go about it the way you have. You can market yourself relentlessly, make contacts, get your foot in the door by taking shit jobs and doing well at them. It's possible, but ironically takes a lot more effort and self discipline than just getting a degree, and in the end you're probably no better off. Maybe a bit worse.
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
Having worked in various sized companies, from self-employed through 10, 20 and 500-1000 people, it became apparent to me that all businesses need:
1) Sales and Marketing
2) Accounting
3) A product
If you have no interest in 1) or 2), being self-employed is not for you. Also, when taking into account what you get paid for your "Product" as a coder, bear in mind the hours invested in Sales, Marketing, and Accounting for essentially zero compensation..
Word. When I started out doing coding-type projects, I was lucky enough to have some manager-type pimp me out and take care of the 1) and 2) for me. The only downside was that sometimes he oversold my capabilities... "X? Sure he's a pro at X -- (hey, learn X real quick!)" -- which led to some awkward moments meeting with the clients. But all-in-all it was a great "in" to that kind of work for several different sites that needed work/maintenance.
If you could toss together a pretty good buzzword-searchable public package for yourself at http://monster.com/ or the like, you'll pretty much be contacted by a string of headhunters who will try to help coach you and plug you in to a bunch of opportunities they have on their docket. Yeah, they'll take some overhead off the top, but you're probably happier not having to deal with that kind of schlepping that they do (at least not until you get older, more jaded, and more willing to look out after yourself :-P ).
Even if you're a FT employee, you are always selling yourself -- to your one and only client. The only difference with self-employment is you wake up to this fact (or starve, go back to selling yourself during a FT employment interview) and may have more than once client at a time. Even some FT employees work two or more jobs to get by. Self-employment is similar.
Want to get excellent at sales (even if you're going to stay with FT employment)? Read and re-read: Socratic Sales.
A lot of people believe that start-ups succeed or fail because of cash (enough or too little). Certainly cash flow is king when it comes to staying in business. However, the reality is: You either have time or you have money. It takes time to develop a clientèle through carefully crafted product fulfillment and good service. Or you can accelerate this process through expensive advertising. You can burn through a lot of cash if you solve everything with it. Or you can be more creative and leverage time, including other people's time, and spend from less to zero. Time and persistence can pay big dividends.
So, hone your skills. Sell them. Watch your cash. Develop relationships (clients vs customers). Bank!
I'm self-taught. I got a lucky break when I found a small company that was prepared to test me (I interviewed with every engineer they had, and each tested my skill). I applied there directly (actually found them on CareerBuilder, but Craigslist would probably be better) rather than going through a recruiter. Only large companies can afford recruiters, and they're less likely to take a risk. Once you get an interview, be happy and confident, it goes a long way.
A lot of it is luck. In this economy a job may be harder to come by, I suppose you could try finding a non-profit that needs some help with a website or something, at least demonstrate that you can build something with application in the real world.
The right to protest the State is more sacred than the State.
I would suggest, as one piece of your credential "pie" you try to answer Drupal questions (or any other thing you might have experience with) at places like Stack Overflow
It might not directly get you hired, but you will build an online record of your knowledge, and you'll probably learn even more as well.
Good luck!
(I am self-taught, as well)
XKCD:Xeric Knowledge Comically Dispen
This.
This is my exact story. When I don't know something, I say so. My skills cover a very broad palette, but there are certain topics for which I simply didn't have the time or motivation, like Java and mobile dev, so when a business acquaintance asked me if I knew anything about iPhone development, I said "I have zero experience, but I'm curious". About a third of my 2011 income was from mobile dev alone, for that one guy.
You can learn stuff on-the-fly, but what employers and clients tend to value above all is trust. Having you work outside your comfort zone might cost them a little more in billable hours, but most clients would rather work with someone they know and trust, with good communication, than risk bringing in a total stranger just to save a thousand bucks.
And no, I don't have a CS degree. I was pretty much born a geek, and college consisted of me skipping classes to do contract work, showing up to exams, and then getting in trouble with incompetent profs who were reading incoherent bullshit off of textbooks. The way I see it, if an employer is dead-set on requiring a degree, and won't even consider my experience, then I don't want to work for such cretins anyway. In my opinion, there are very few small-to-medium businesses whose needs truly mandate a degree, especially in I.T. and software dev. In our industry, a piece of parchment paper means little when the course curriculum is typically obselete by the time classes start.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
I actually had the same issue, I knew i was very competent with computers but had no experience to get me a job. So I put some white lies on my CV, nothing too outrageous I knew I could back up my psuedo experience with my ability and demonstrate it if required, and I got a mate of mine to act as a reference, turns out i didn't need him. Anyway long story short, once I got the job I stuck at it for a few years to get the real experience i needed, after all once you are in the profession, qualifications count for just about nothing. Tom
In case you hadn't noticed, he posted as AC. You clearly are new here...
Despite what the internet would have you believe, there are some of us who choose not to self-promote our garbage at every opportunity. I'm not here to sell shit, I'm here to talk shit :)
-Billco, Fnarg.com
In the rest of the world, where you can get a repuatable degree/diploma, for $20K or under, it's often worth it. But in the US, it's about 5x more expensive than the rest of the world, so you really have to determine whether or not it's worth it. This is particularly the case in many IT fields, where there simply isn't much of a relevant degree or diploma to speak of. If you're going to spend $50-$100K on a degree, you're going to have to make the personal decision as to whether or not it's going to pay for itself. Maybe it will, but at what cost? Are you going to have to live ultra-frugal for 15 years to make it happen?
IMO, University degrees in the states simply aren't worth it, especially when it sounds like it really doesn't get you anywhere (in 95% of cases).
I'm not sure about that. All too often, when I ask a specific question I get solution to some problem I don't have, or when I explain what I'm trying to do, I'm asked why I would like to do that in the first place.
Perhaps people are trying to encourage you to follow ESR's advice of describing your goal so that they can understand the step.
(Cause, you know, before asking I actually do a google search first, so when I ask something it's often not trivial.)
ESR also says you can sometimes get more helpful replies if you tell people what queries you've already used unsuccessfully.
Instead of running your own business. Then you don't need to provide your quality and skills to anyone, and it can make more money in the long run as you are not limited to your salary and don't have to fear getting fired. If you know web-design and running Drupal, then start to work with those.
^^^ This is an uninformed post.
This is a tremendous and terrible simplification. Let's suppose that the OP runs his own business? Now he has to be a salesman in addition to being a developer. He still has to sell his technical skills to prospective clients. Barring the typical mom-and-pop shops that need some help in getting a web page up, most companies will still require some sort of technical "affidavit" (and for better or worse, many still rely on academics as a filter.)
You can be a consultant and go 1099, register yourself with a LLC and sell your consulting services to a larger consulting firm. Still, the consulting firm will ask for a technical affidavit, and the clients the consulting firm will pitch you for will also ask for a technical affidavit. As I said in the 5th sentence of the paragraph above, the chances to avoid questions on self-taught skills are still limited for a self-employed developer, not unless he narrows the clients he caters to (and ergo, narrows the opportunities to do business.)
For the OP and for people in his position, it is really hard to sell yourself without a diploma. It is sad, but true. In fact, even some diplomas that used to have some value do not help anymore. Case in point, me. I started working with just a AA degree (and later worked my way up to a 4-year degree and then grad school.) Back then when I started, it was feasible to get a good development job with just a AA/AS or even with nothing but experience. But that's not the case anymore.
OTH, I think it is a good thing that you are looking at conferences like DrupalCon. Get in there and network, network, network. Build your CV indicating the jobs you have done. Moreover, open a github or mercurial account and create stuff of your own (pet projects and mockups) that show case what you can do. So that when people ask you, you can tell them "look here".
Once you develop your CV, and your professional network, lack of formal education becomes less of an issue. The problem is to get the ball rolling, and I'm afraid that in this time and age, the odds are against you. It is not impossible, but it is a heck of a lot difficult than 10-20 years ago.
Regardless of how you proceed, I would suggest (if not urge) you to get a degree. If you have the skills, a degree might or might not help improve them. But it will certainly help in opening a lot more doors. And in the end, job hunting is a numbers game. Good luck.
The problem I've found with online freelancing sites is they are completely flooded with 3rd world bids. I cannot, and will not, compete on price with a developing nation. I also got really sick of seeing dozens of "Create a facebook clone for $500" projects. If these sites were better curated against such garbage, I'd reconsider but as they currently stand, I find them a colossal waste of time.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
I'm a coder actually, not a designer so I would modify Drupal and similar CMS'es back when they were young (remember working with the first versions of Drupal). I never had any formal education either.
What I did was basically go up to a couple of local businesses (webshops and so on) and asked them if they needed any help. And lo-and-behold they needed someone for a small project that eventually grew into bigger projects. I eventually quit for a "stable" job but it was well-paying (the hourly wages) and granted me a lot of freedom since it wasn't full time but it was enough for me.
As far as some of the skills you should probably have besides your generic designer skills (these were my skills back then): PHP and Perl (especially if you're going to be modifying Drupal modules), other CMS'es, Linux/LAMP setup and maintenance, e-mail servers, site management tools (such as Ensim, Plesk etc.), networking (TCP/IP basics), how to secure an insecure system, basic understanding of firewalls and routers and knowing how to work on a Mac. Also have a recommendation letter, references and a portfolio.
These days you probably want to add virtual servers and hosted services (buzzword of the day: cloud, SaaS, ...) as well as AJAX, JavaScript, HTML5 and other client-side goodness (which weren't as prevalent back then, we barely had Flash). Throw yourself out there, make sure you're visible on all kinds of sites. I got offers through the old sourceforge jobs section (don't know if it still exists) and through several other small, very directed sites while I never got anything through the generics like Monster.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Yeah, I know, it just sounds wrong. I had no high school degree, no college, but knew what I was doing inside out....Made up a couple jobs, had them call my buddy for the job reference, eventually got a Helpdesk spot, got bumped up to the Network team, moved through a few different companies, and now I am, and have been a Senior Network Admin for years. My resume built itself and now I have a serious work history behind me for the future if necessary......
One word: Luck.
If you want something repeatable... sorry. There isn't one.
A degree or higher education will not guarantee you a job, but it will, at least, maximize your chances of somebody recognizing what you have to offer a company. Without it, your resume/CV will likely only be destined for the round file... and probably not even actually read by the people who make hiring decisions.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Join mailing lists, like the TFUG (Tucson Free Unix Group) and LVLUG (Las Vegas Linux Group) (Find ones near where you live, of course)
People who actually work at companies often post informal job notices in mailing lists.
It's also a good way to get to know people who are in the industry.
It also helps to get involved and offer solutions to questions posted that you know the answers to.
XKCD:Xeric Knowledge Comically Dispen
It's pretty easy:
If you don't have a degree, you need a pretty impressive portfolio to back up your claims about your skill. Not just what you did but also at which positions in how many and how large a team you worked. If you do have a good drupal project portfolio with neat project descriptions and demo installations to show for, then you're top of the line when it comes to joining a drupal shop.
All else is pretty much the same (degree or not) and is covered by the usual advice already given here. Although, as someone who's freelance in IT and has no degree, I might add that I find it considerably easier in getting a job through personal contact than by sending out applications. And I hear it's pretty much the same for every other field-expert today looking for a job, regardless whether they are self-taught or have a degree.
2 cents from a freelance web-and-software-developer.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
That's the difference between suggesting and proving.
There are certainly circumstances where it is no fault of your own that you don't have the degree. But from an employer's point of view, it's not the way to bet. All in all, it is more likely that someone who doesn't a degree has less dedication and commitment than someone who does. This is true even if there are some exceptions--it's a statement about the odds, not a statement about what is true every time.
As others mentioned, you might actually do better starting your own business. You have to be pretty extroverted and actually go looking for clients, but it is something to consider. Building a social network of recruiters and other programmers would help a lot too. If there are any user group meetings in your area (Linux, Java, C++, etc,) you could hang out at those and find out what the other people there do for a living. A placement is worth tens of thousands of dollars to a recruiter so they already want to be your friend, and they'll respond to a positive attitude. Talk to several on a regular basis, even when you're employed.
It's more of an effort starting out that way, but once you have 5 or 6 years of experience somewhere they stop asking for a degree so much. After 10 the subject almost never comes up anymore. I've got 22 in the industry with no degree and it doesn't come up at all anymore. The CS classes I did take when I was younger are so out-of-date now that it doesn't really matter anyway. I'm pretty sure those three semesters of COBOL aren't helping me anywhere anymore. Knowing data structures is, though.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I am in the same boat. Learned computer hardware as a hobby. Fixed family and friend's PCs, started networking houses, and then small businesses. Moved into the corporate world on the lowest rung of the ladder. Working a helpdesk and paying dues, and just kept working up from there. If you are a hard worker and have the technical know how and problem solving abilities and can communicate with people outside of the industry you will be fine. I have worked my way up to the manager of service delivery for a large company. Only now am I looking back to get a degree, and it wont be in computer science.
Really depends where you are. Some parts of the country are much pickier about degrees than others. Most degrees are worthless these days, and I think employers usually understand that; unless there's some kind of company religion that requires it. Not having a degree is not generally a handicap, if you know what you're doing. The whole thing depends on your ability to talk about what you do, and sound like you know what you're doing in an interview. That's true no matter what your education level. If you can make someone who may or may not be an expert think you're an expert (which you should be)... then you've done the job. The need for a convincing portfolio depends on whether you're selling yourself as a designer, a networker, a programmer. The problem is that while you can do all of these things, you're going to need to come up with a compelling way to sell them one at a time in a way that makes sense. The best advice though: Work on the resume. Hire a professional resume writer, and spend $500 on it. That'll give you a good base to work with in this search. You want something called a "Path of life" style resume. The longer the better. Even if you have to go into extreme detail with every position.
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I went the same way with my career. I taught BASIC in high school. I didn't get my first computer related gig until I was 19. I worked very hard to gain and demonstrate my knowledge to my prospective employer. It took a great deal of work to get my foot wedged into that first door. I've since found that real world experience is cherished as much as certifications and degrees with many employers. If you have demonstrable knowledge and a good work ethic you can build a career. Having examples of you work, a portfolio, as suggested previously is a good thing. Industry certification is also a great way to show you know what you're talking about. You really need to get and keep that first job for at least two years and walk away with a good reference. Demonstrating a good work ethic is just as important to most employers. An unproductive genius is no good to them.
As a hiring manager, and former developer of 13 years, I can offer a few thoughts.
The best thing you can do is leverage your network for not only leads, but personal references. I'll take a personal reference over a buzz word laden resume every time. Work to build your network. Ask your network for leads into companies you may be interested in. If they don't know somebody, perhaps somebody they know does. Local interest groups and technical societies (IEEE for instance) are an easy way to build your network as well. Recruiters are another great way to get in the door. They have established personal relationships with the hiring managers and can make an introduction for you. You might end up working contract but once you're in the door you can start working on a full time position if you're interested.
If you're sending resumes in cold then focus on learning an emerging, but hot, "new" technology. HTML5 comes to mind right now as a good example. And definitely make sure your resume is effective. You have the first half of the first page to hook the hiring manager's interest. Make sure the most important information about how you can benefit your prospective employer is front and center.
When you score an interview you're on the toughest part. Research the company you're about to interview for. Google is your friend! Know a little about their products, their business plan, and other basic tid bits. Make sure you can comment on how your skill set would benefit their products if nothing else. If you have the name of the hiring manager see if you can find them on LinkedIn, and Google their name to see if they have any other info posted about them. If it's a small company then you might do a little homework on the CEO or founder. For all you know you might interview with them. Don't be afraid to ask questions on materials you find in the interview. We often see Facbook and Google used by employers to check on a potential candidate. Here's your chance to turn the tables.
While it's good to answer technical questions to prove your mettle during an interview, at the end of the day I can teach skills. What's more, the skills I need now are probably not the skills I'll need in two years. I want someone who can clearly learn fast, is motivated to look for better ways to do things, and is generally wants to grow beyond the person I'm hiring today. This is tough; look for ways to show you're more than the skills you have today. You have the smarts and the motivation to go further. Be confident, but not cocky.
Another thing about interviews, don't be a cardboard cutout. I have no interest in working with a card board cutout every day, neither do my employees. Don't be afraid to be enthusiastic, show some humor, and demonstrate some personality. Look around for clues as to what your interviewer's own interests and hobbies are. If you see a connection then casually ask about that signed baseball on the desk, or those weekend fishing trip photos. Strike up a little side conversation. Make sure you don't let that side conversation dominate the interview (a minute or two at most) but don't be afraid to spend a minute sharing common interests. Trust me when everyone sits down to review the stack of interviews at decision time you will be remembered.
Just a few thoughts...
Without credentials, you're going to find it very hard to get a job. I wouldn't hire a programmer who didn't have some kind of university degree in computer science or a related field.
As others have said, one option is to go out on your own. It's not easy to start a business and it's not for everyone, but it can be extremely rewarding, both financially and emotionally. I started my own business 12 years ago as a one-person consulting shop. I was lucky enough to be on good terms with several former employers, so I had an immediate client base. Consulting was fun, but labour-intensive. It's also really hard to estimate costs until you have a year or two worth of experience.
Since then, my company has morphed into a product company with 8 employees. I could never go back to working for someone else. :)
You're bang-on about software freelancing sites. If you don't mind diversifying a little, though, try some hardware/software support freelancing. The pay is GOOD for little add-ons, and you can pick up LOTS of free certifications along the way. I am Dell, Toshiba, HP, Samsung, Delphi, and a few others certified. Didn't pay for a single one. I get paid a minimum of $50/hr (typically closer to $100/hr), and don't have to mess with any marketing or anything. Onforce.com, fieldnation.com, workmarket.com, fieldsolutions.com, and servicelive.com (in order of the quality of their workorders). They're all free to join, and well worth a look.
I started off as a 30 hr/week dentist's assistant after a layoff from an equally unrewarding job. The free day each week gave me enough time to pick up a few frelance jobs (at that time, I was only using the OnForce platform), and after about 6 months I was making almost as much on Fridays as I did Monday-Thursday. In May of this year, I quit the Dentist, and am now self-employed full time. Being married, I have a little computer shop on main street that my wife runs, but it just barely covers its own costs. From the freelancing, I'm going gross about $40k this year just since may. Not bad for just starting out. I have no formal computer education, aside from the free certs I've picked up along the way, and actually enjoy parts swaps a lot more than I ever dreamed I would. Especially at $100/hr with no boss.
Same story. Got a commodore 64 when I was 3. Learned to read by playing computer games on it. (Project Space Station was an extremely wordy game). So I spent my childhood learning on my own. Didn't want 40k of student loan debt, and I was never all that fond of school anyway.
Anyway, after high school (1999), I moved to a bigger city and got a temp job in the accounting department of a company (data entry). Many of the tasks I was given were automatable, so I automated them. A role in Systems Support for the company opened up, and the head of the accounting department recommended me. I worked for that company for over a year before I moved back home, and was lucky to get an IT position at a company here which was helped largely because I had that one job of real industry experience. Fast forward to 2011 and I am now the IT Manager for a small manufacturing company.
In my case, it happened to all work out, and now I have 12 years experience, I am sure things will be fine. A couple things to note though: more and more jobs no longer say 'University Degree or Relevant Experience' and simply that a relevant degree is required. Also, I got paid less than I would have if I had a degree for years. I make a good wage now, and I feel that the lack of student loan debt has more than made up for a few years of below average pay.
Travel back to 1995 and you're golden. Anyone that knew what a three-finger-salute was got $50k/yr starting.
-- I have a private email server in my basement.
I'm self-taught with no 4-year degree. This is what I did.
I got "general" IT experience. I got a job with a small company (less than 10 employees) where I was the staff geek. While not in my official job description, I built PCs, set up networks, designed MS Access applications, and built a company website. I created a resume where I emphasized this and not my "real" job.
I then leveraged my MS Access skills to get a serious database development job in PeopleSoft / Oracle. I'm now a .Net development manager.
You will not enjoy neglecting your first love, but it's important to demonstrate that you can design and support projects and systems from inception to user acceptance. And you will become a better IT person for it. When your website is down, it's always good to be able to have an intelligent argument with the network engineer. :-)
Just keep in mind you've chosen the hard route. It will require patience. Most IT managers understand that experience is more important than education or certifications. Especially with major changes in technology every couple of years. However, they don't have the time to sort through thousands of resumes, so they count on human resources (HR) to do that. HR is the gatekeeper and HR's job is to keep THEIR joibs. If you don't have a college degree, you will not even get through the HR resume syndicate without 5+ years of experience. The only alternative is to attend conferences and user group meetings. Be social, friendly, and outgoing: an opportune meeting with a developer or manager may get you over the wall HR has built.
P.S. SAVE ALL YOUR CODE. You may need to do a demo. Make a website with some examples of your work.
When I went looking for my first job after college, the career counselor told me something which I didn't get to use but will never forget. Volunteer. You start by finding a company that does what you are interested in doing. Then you send them your resume making sure to note your self taught skills(but you don't need to mention that they are self taught, just that you have experience). Finally, in your cover letter you express your interest in volunteering for them for 3-6 months. The fact that they won't have to pay you will give them the opportunity to meet you and see your skills without taking as much risk. You can do it part time since they don't have to pay you anyway and still work a somewhat regular job on the side(though working hours may be strange so you'd need a flexible job).
After the 3-6 months you have a few things going for you. First, you have your foot in the door giving you the opportunity to try to get a job with the company who already knows you do good work. Second, you now have something to put on your resume. Finally, you have contacts in the field. These are all the things you need to get yourself a job in the field and it just takes a little monetary sacrifice. Heck, if you're good and they know it they might offer you the job long before the 3-6 months comes up. Good Luck!
Hate to tell you this but if you want to do corporate/employee based work, you'll likely have to start at the bottom and get something solid on your resume. I'm in same boat; futzing with computers since late 70's, no degree, free lance work in 90's. I finally took a 1 year contract job with Honeywell (email support) and once that was on resume, was able to get more contract/corporate gigs and now, after 15 years, am finally doing work I like (cluster server admin). So, should I have finished up my degree back in early '90's instead of taking the (at the time) easy money? Yeah, probably. But hey, it's all about Journey, right?
I drank what? -- Socrates
Take the money you would have spent going to DrupalCon, walk down to your local Junior College, Community College or VoTec and sign up for Econ 101 and if you can find it, Introduction to Engineering. Tech skills are good and all, but the ability to step back and understand why your project is important to the business and how it fits in to the rest of the company and the projects around it are what separates the really good developers from the code-grunts.
I'm not saying you need a 4 year degree, or even an associates, but having that backing will help you in ways you can't even imagine right now.
1. You need 2-3 years experience. Join the USAF. Low end jobs. Self driven project. Probably doesn't matter but you need to show a solid 2-3 years in something. 2. Go to school even if you don't plan on a degree. That will reflect well on you that you are pursuing education. 3. Be grateful for any tech job at the beginning of your career. They won't fit what you want to do but showing consistency and excellence in those jobs will look good. 4. Be willing to relocate to areas that aren't so saturated or just have more tech openings. 5. Learn to interview. Takes practice. Good luck.
... but you need to go back to school. If you don't have the math skills, you are going to be seriously limited. Furthermore, the lack of a degree is going to be a ceiling that will be extremely difficult to crack.
Furthermore, the engineering and project skills are the key to doing more than just being a code monkey, and being able to rise up to the next level, where you are doing more design and architectural work. Which is like coding, but on a bigger scale. But for this, too, you need the math - you can't do, for example, redundancy requirements analysis without at least some math background.
Like you, I too was self taught. I was writing C code professionally before I went back and got my degree. I thought, I'm really good at this, why should I get the degree? Bottom line is that I was foolish and arrogant, and would be even further along in my career if I had gotten the degree sooner.
Check your premises.
I have been a self taught geek and managed to make it in IT. However I started doing it professionally (getting paid by a real company to work a real network) in 1996. At this point, I think you're about 15 years too late. The days of getting jobs based on merit and the ability to do the work are past. When I started, I was some what unique because most people did not have real world skills. Companies would hire whoever they could.
Now there are colleges that are turning out kids with all of the skills that companies are looking for. Those skills are backed by coursework and projects to demonstrate proficiency with the subject matter.
The only constructive advice I have is to develop a portfolio. With so many qualified people out of work and looking for jobs, no employer is going to hire you because you say you know something. You have to prove it. You need something to show an employer to demonstrate that you have experience with your skill set in the real world.
The interesting thing for me was that the description in the article was an excellent CV. We have had many discussions here about whether a Computer Science Degree really prepares you for the IT industry, and in my opinion they are at best a primer. I am also "unqualified", but have made a successful career in IT. I have also been making hiring decisions for several years in several organisations.
When you get past the skill set required what I am looking for is independence in terms of being able to take a task or feature and deliver it without overt oversight. Are you able to analyze a requirement, come up with a solution, and deliver it? Do you have professional disiplines? I'm talking about use of version control, working inside a team environment.
One way of getting exactly these kinds of skills is through open source teams. Open source provides a low barrier to entry for those looking to make their mark. It will give you excellent practical experience, that in my book is approximately double the value of commercial experience because it shows commitment and passion for software development.
In short the original description above reads better than most CV's I get across my desk. University qualifications do play a part, but not as much as you might think.
This! Got a nice, easy going Mac support job at a college where I was quickly able to help the Sun admin and the network admin. Afterwards, they had no problem putting assistant network admin/system admin on resume. Sure, didn't pay great and no chance of promotion but was most laid back work environment I've seen. Oh yeah, most places offer free tuition in place of decent pay. Can finish up a degree if you have time or at least pick up some free certs.
I drank what? -- Socrates
I'm a director of a software development company and when we need someone we usually start with a staffing company like Tech Sys or Pinnacle (pinnacle1.com) to find us candidates. Often we prefer contractors who are willing to be hired down the line so we don't lose a good employee, but can let them go if it's not a good fit. You can also test drive the company before coming on full-time. Decide if you're willing to travel, relocate, etc before accepting a contract as both are often required depending on where you live. Also, being willing to travel will increase your chances of finding something, but think about the financial aspects of that and make sure the contract is for enough money to make it worth it if travel costs aren't included in the contract. Let both the staffing company and the employer know you're willing to be hired as a full-time employee and that's the only type of work you're looking for. This is important as this often dictates the terms between the two companies and a full-time position most likely isn't possible without a cooling off period, unless the contract states it. A cooling off period basically means after your contract ends you cannot be hired by the employer for 3-6 months. You can work with multiple staffing companies to increase your chances of finding a good job.
Rather than depending on a cold-read of your resume, you should rely on colleagues to recommend you. Work your network, use LinkedIn (or other social networking sites) to find out who you know who knows someone where you want to get hired. Use your connections to find out who the hiring manager is and route your cover letter and resume around the initial HR screen.
... back in the go go 90's. It was a good gig for a while, but I got bored with it, topped out on income, saw outsourcing transforming my perceived role from genius to janitor and went back for a CPE degree. It really showed up the fact that I hadn't know what the hell I was doing before, and the only thing that had been making me look good was the spectacular incompetence of my competition.
Now I have a new company, and make 3d games, which I had previously thought was way beyond my reach.
College dragged me into realms of study I would have neglected, the boring, theoretical stuff that now serves as a foundation for my work, and makes me able to learn new stuff much, much more easily. It greatly expanded the depth, satisfaction, and earning potential of my career, and I got to ogle hot young chicks for a few years in the bargain.
To get some basic credentials for the HR types, enroll in a web designer certificate course at your local community college. If you have taught your self well enough, you will blow through it and maybe pick up a thing or two while you are at it. Next, try getting a web design job with a local college or university. They are more forgiving as to who they hire because they can't afford to hire for top notch skills or experience. You'll get better than decent benefits, OK pay, and get the experience you need to move on. If you're smart, you'll take some college classes/get a degree in web design while you are working there. Typically you can take classes for free if you work for a school. From there you'll be on equal footing with the rest of the web design crowd. To stand out, you'll need to land some gigs for high profile clients or prove your worth with the latest technologies and industry trends.
kind of like the moderation system
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I think it's also a matter of what sort of company you are willing to work for. Small businesses are likely more willing to talk to you just because you get a recommendation than a very large company. For a well known company, the problem isn't really finding qualified candidates but having enough time to sort through all the applications. They can afford to make having a degree a strict requirement because they'll still have hundreds of resumes on that pile.
when you pick a job (good luck btw, in this economy its quite hard to get a job) make sure its something you enjoy, for you do NOT want to be stuck with a job you do not like.... good luck!!
What do you mean by "special" skill? Like something rare and unusual that you'll have trouble finding a market for?
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Get on a help desk for some industrial company doing grunt work. Do it well.
Know why help desks generally suck? Because competent people on the help desk stand out and get hired away.
Here's the fear I have with "self-taught" people. How much do you really know?
Making a website work or look good, or both, is not enough. How well is it coded? Do you know best practices, not only for performance, but for security? My employer hired a relatively well respected company to build a web based application that would house medical data. It was my job to put a server in place for them (RHEL) and more or less make sure that their code would run on it.
Well, they used PHP, and since I know PHP quite well, I thought I'd check how they did a few things. I was horrified when I reviewed some code and saw basically:
$sql = "INSERT INTO table_name (col1,col2,col3) VALUES(" . $_POST['blah'].....
Now, formal education does not mean you're going to learn these types of things, but what it does tell me is that you can learn in a formal environment, and if need be, I can put you in training and expect you to absorb the material in a meaningful way.
Hate it for you.
- A Frog in a pond utters an azure cry. -
Fast Company wrote about IGN looking in non-traditional places for excellent programmers: http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/160/ign-self-taught-coders. There are probably others like them.
The best way to get hired is to have skills that are in high demand. I just searched drupal on monster.com and got 210 hits for the entire market served by Monster. I got no hits for the medium-size city where I live. That makes it a relatively small niche in my view. But if Drupal is the way you want to go, I would advise you to develop guru-level Drupal skills, so you can nail every question in a technical interview.
And regarding your lack of a degree, I don't hold it against a candidate when I'm looking to hire someone. The fact that someone is self-taught I see as a fairly reliable indicator of certain traits I look for in a developer. You can't thrive in this business long-term if you're not capable of learning and mastering new technologies on your own. People that can't do that end up working in the same cubicle at the same large company for 25 years maintaining some legacy system built with technologies that happened to be fashionable when they were hired right out of college.
I wonder how many socalled self-taught developers hire other self-taught developers thinking they're like-minded?
Don't take my subject as an indication that you do not have any experience. I am merely stating that you _no longer_ have any experience (or provable at least - since you said most of your projects have come offline). Since you have some decent LAMP experience I would say that you could go with a large hosting company. Rackspace comes to mind. They are paying relocation to San Antonio for Linux Administrators, and they have a heavy emphasis on Apache MySQL. This can give you a few years to get some experience on paper. Then you can start looking for something fun. Of course the other option would be to continue doing your own thing, but either way you will need a portfolio in order to win customers.
I do not work for Rackspace, but I did recently interview with them.
-matt
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I'm a self-taught programmer as well. I started in Basic when I was 11, and moved to C in high school.
How did I get a job? I went to college, like most other self-taught programmers! There's a big difference in the kind of skills and practice you need to win a high school programming competition versus building an industrial strength web application to handle millions of users.
When I was in college, the best students were those like us, self-taught in Basic. Had I NOT gone to college, I would have wasted a lot of time, and not been able to write the programs that I want to write.
No, I will not work for your startup
I'm also a self-taught geek, and now I am part of a Drupal/CiviCRM shop with three other folks, all self-taught. We do very well, and just made a job offer to a fifth person, also a self-taught Drupal dev. Here's some thoughts from the other side of the interview table.
A few thoughts:
* Getting hired in the Drupal world as a self-taught geek is way easier than in most corners of the IT world. There's lots of small employers, and there are ways to demonstrate your skill that don't involve certs.
* Drupal is a fast-moving product - we want to know that you know the latest tools. Have you developed in Drupal 7? If you're doing theming/front-end, what's your experience with Sass/Closure/etc.? Basically, if you're not plugged into the Drupal community, it's difficult to be up-to-date. So YES, go to DrupalCon, Drupal meetups, etc. - and make sure your prospective employer knows it (if you're looking to get hired by a Drupal shop)
* The most important part of being hired is networking. Not what but who you know, etc. Another reason to hit the Drupal community gatherings.
* I'll echo what other folks said about needing a portfolio. If you don't have one, make one. Seriously.
When hiring, we asked for folks' Drupal.org usernames, and we looked at their history. Seeing that you've made a non-trivial patch to a major module counts for a lot. Seeing that you know how to make a comprehensive and useful bug report means you'll get better responses when you're working on our projects. We asked about community involvement, as a measure of a) seeing how up-to-date folks were, and b) determining if their contacts in the community will help in a pinch - our good relationships with key Drupal devs has certainly helped us in emergencies. It also means we've been referred work (particularly because we specialize in Drupal/CiviCRM). We looked at portfolio - especially important if you want to be a themer.
Finally - one problem we had with hiring folks in your position was a lack of experience with tools used for working in groups. Familiarize yourself with at least one of the popular project management tools used in the Drupal community (I'd suggest Redmine, Open Atrium, or Basecamp). Learn git. Brush up on CLI tools like drush and ssh if you don't know them already. I think it's telling that the person we offered the job to was self-taught, but was already working in a small shop. A self-taught person with experience with the tools I listed above would have closed the gap that advantage brought to her.
One more thing, I guess - there've been a lot of good arguments for self-employment on both sides of the debate in this thread. Consider the middle option of being semi-self-employed. Moonlight doing Drupal dev. I moonlighted as a freelancer, and brought my day job from full time to part time to gone.
I'm a self-taught computer guy. It seems that it was much easier back in the 90's, prior to the dot-com collpase of '01, to get hired--even if the best you could do was to spell "c++"! I think the bar has been raised since then, making the computer degree far more valuable in some ways.
I'd say there's a lot of good advice here. I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned Top Coder yet, but that is another thing you might consider participating in. Get some credentials, even if they aren't of the college variety. Have a portfolio and something you can show that is rather impressive.
I don't care if you're self taught or have an ivy league education - prove to me you know something. Let me see a portfolio. Contribute to open source. Build your own website, do IT support for your local volunteer fire department, build a web app that helps a local pet rescue organization accept donations. Get involved in your local user groups. Anything - just get visible.
I'm not just talking 'out of my ass' here either. If you are in the Reston, VA area and have skills with html/css/javascript/ruby/rails, I'm hiring right now, and thats how I'm trying to find candidates.
Education is irrelevant when compared to knowledge and motivation.
-db
I agree with others saying to start your own business. If you're not into that, look for startups. Startups will be more willing to look at your skill-set rather than a big corporation that use education credentials so that non-informed people can make somewhat informed hiring decisions. Startups are also more likely to give you a more impressive title, giving you further resume cred for future jobs.
I do not have any formal higher education and have gone up against a slew of more impressive resumes (masters degrees, etc.) for my last few jobs. If you know you're stuff and you're dealing directly with people rather than procedures and an H.R. department it won't be a problem.
or else!
I'm wondering if you're aware of how ridiculous your question is. There are thousands of people, myself included, who have worked very hard and did "the traditional computer-nerd thing (comp sci or physics, computer degree, etc.)", and here you are, thinking that you can avoid all that hard work and extend a "hobby" into a career. It's almost as ridiculous as asking "How does a self-taught surgeon get hired?" For your reading pleasure, there is your request, paraphrased into acerbic satire:
"I'm essentially a self-taught surgeon who started learning anatomy at age 12, but decided NOT to do the traditional doctor-nerd thing (biology or chemistry, medical schhool, etc.). I've essentially kept up with surgery as a hobby, teaching myself cutting with scalpels, anesthesia, sutures, and now bone saws. I've worked for a short time at a veterinarian shop but mostly have just done freelance projects and here-and-there stuff for doctor's offices or homeless shelters, many of which have gone under or are no longer accessible. I'm creative, have cutting skills, I'm personable and self-motivated...and I'd like to get a 'real' job now but I don't really look like much on paper — how can I (specifically with bone saws) make myself look good on a CV and/or establish solid credentials that will make people more willing to take a chance and hire me? Will BoneSawCon 2012 help me make inroads? Are there other ways to 'prove' myself to be a capable surgeon/brain surgeon?"
He doesnt. He gets qualifications first, then he gets hired.
Watch Opera? When you have no job, looking for work IS your job and you should spend at least 8 hours a day doing it.
Don't tell the recruiter that. If you have been out of work for any length of time you will inevitably be asked what you have been doing in your time "off". "Looking for work" is always the wrong answer.
...is a big deal. Example: About 15 years ago, the computer systems used by Revenue Officers of the U.S. Internal Revenue Service had reached their zenith. The primary application was called the Integrated Collection System. It did everything ROs needed to do their jobs. Running on SCO Unix laptops in the field and one SCO Unix server per group, *everything* that ROs needed was there without being bogged down with management report-generating crap that wasn't needed to do the job.
Guess what? The whole system was designed, mostly coded, and often administered by Revenue Officers. 80% of the people who ran the project, from coders to SAs to high-level execs, were former Revenue Officers who had been recruited for their "on-the-side" tech skills. These were the guys who everyone went to for computer help and who were always complaining that a properly designed and selected set of computerized tools could make their jobs better.
When just about everyone involved in a software project has actually done the job of the end user, it's unbelievable how much smoother things go in the long run. Yes, it's a pain to take a motley crew of bill collectors and teach them enough about computers (even if they were computer-loving types to begin with) for them to design, code, and maintain such a huge system. But if you commit to that process, you wind up with a vertical app that meets the needs of the customer better than you would normally dare to hope.
Addendum - Naturally, the PHB types couldn't leave well enough alone. Unix for end users was considered too weird so once everything was working perfectly for a few years, execs from outside the normal chain of command demanded that the system be scrapped and re-written for Windows. At the same time, they insisted that it be loaded up with functions designed not to help ROs do their jobs but to produce reports for management and tools for management to control the field employees. (In the view of upper management, the earlier iterations of the program gave the end users far too much ability to do their jobs without interference from management.) Nowadays, ICS is far too much of an employee-control tool. Oh, well, nothing good lasts forever, I suppose.
A degree isn't only about training. It is just as much evidence that you can set a long term goal and achieve it, and jump through all of the hoops necessary along the way.
Not having a degree myself, I find this answer patronizing and just plain wrong. There are many circumstances whee not having a degree is no fault of your ow (including lack of funds/loans, better opportunities, etc). At this point in time, a degree is simply a "checkbox" item for HR to use to filter candidates. No degree, no chance as HR tosses your resume before it gets to anyone doing the actual hiring. So the real problem for you is how to get through the HR filter.
The technical name for it is signaling. Pure signaling works like this: Take two bunches of people, who we'll call Good Programmers and Bad Programmers. Suppose employers can't distinguish between them easily or well. Invent an essentially pointless task which provides no direct benefit whatsoever to anyone but is much harder for Bad Programmers than Good, and so carrying it out imposes a greater cost on Bad than Good. Then, as an employer, offer enough in rewards to make it worthwhile for the Good but not the Bad.
Degrees are not pure signaling, but there's an element. Degrees do not separate people purely based on how good they are as employees - background, culture, money, etc., all come in to the 'cost' of a degree, and the underlying trait selected for isn't perfectly correlated to your value as an employee - but there's an element. Employers do have some power to distinguish between good and bad themselves, but universities do it better and at less cost to each employer with 100 applicants. There's information in whether or not you have a degree, and employers inevitably use this information.
But, yes, there's always going to be some irrational (from the employer's point of view) conservatism when it comes to hiring someone without a degree just because it's not conventional, no matter how much evidence you have of your worth. But it may not be irrational from the HR assessor or interviewer's point of view. Employ someone unusual and you're more likely to get personal blame if he's no good than if on paper he's just like all the good people you already have. So go for smaller employers where there'll be both more variation in attitude and someone (like a business owner) who doesn't have to worry about being sacked.
The real trick to landing a job in this situation is who you know. Get out there and talk to people. Show your skills in a way non-tech people can "get". Impress the right people, and keep them in your back pocket. Every decent job I've had has come by impressing the right people and having them think of me when they see a need. By doing this, they are willing to stick their neck out and tell HR "Interview this guy, regardless of resume".
Yes, I agree, it's a big help. It's still possible to find jobs if you don't know anyone, but you're going to find it harder, especially if you're not so good on paper. But university can be a big help here. You meet a lot of people.
...by hacking into the corporate network of the company you want to work for and obtaining compromising material, such as uploaded video porn involving the company president and a local group of cheerleaders (female and male cheerleaders work best), the numbers of the offshore accounts of major corporate officers -- don't be tempted or distracted by this, by the way, we're trying to get a job, not get rich directly, that sort of thing. You might want to encrypt their entire customer database as well with a key Only You Know. After this, a subtle hint in the right place -- one that just appears in their mailbox as if by magic -- should do the trick, without needing to resort to similar email messages in the mailboxes of their wives, husbands, federal agents working for the IRS, BATF, DEA and FBI. One hopes.
What, you disagree? Strange, it has always worked for me...;-)
rgb
P.S. -- and if it doesn't, well, there are always all of those account numbers...
Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
One way to break into the tech field is by doing contract work. This can include working for 'temp' agencies that specialize in IT work. As said agency moves you from one assignment to another you could easily get 2 - 3 different companies under your belt that way in just a couple years. Then your resume would list the parent 'contractor' and then list the individual contract assignments with date ranges, project tasks and usual fluff. The only thing you would be lacking is health insurance, which if you are young and unmarried might be a gamble worth taking, otherwise you're going to have to figure out that obstacle.
I was going to say I didn't, but then I got thinking about it and I remember my first job in IT and it was help desk.
You just undid all of my therapy, thanks. :(
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me". - stolen from Dan C alt.os.linux.slackware
Well you're really asking about 2 different career routes. Generally speaking, when you get to a certain level, "web developer" and "web server admin" are often not the same job. Is there one that you like much more than the other?
If you want to be a web developer, as other people have said, put together a portfolio. If you don't have enough sites that you've done to put together a portfolio, then offer your services for free/cheap to some people and build one up. Find some local businesses or musicians or... really anyone. Make their website. Make it awesome. Don't ask for a lot of pay. Not only will this let you build a portfolio, but it might also build up some word-of-mouth to get you additional jobs. Be ready to freelance for a while until you can some up with something steady. A steady job may come later, or you may find that freelancing suits you fine.
If the problem with your old work is that it's no longer accessible, then try asking your clients if it's ok to use their site in your portfolio, and keep screenshots and even functional copies of their websites on your own server. One way or another, you need to show people what you can do.
If you want to get into IT support and system administration, then expect to start at the bottom. Take whatever job you can. Keep in mind from the outset that doing professional level support is more complicated than setting up your own LAMP server. You may have to learn a lot about things like customer support, documentation, change management, and working within arbitrary constraints set by someone else. Real support jobs can be very different from tinkering/hobby system administration, so don't go in expecting that you know everything. On the other hand, most IT people are pretty incompetent, so don't feel too frightened either.
Not to sound snobish but there is value to a CS degree if you pay attention in class. I have a few degrees and taught for a few decades (CS courses part time), while working in industry. I have over some 40 years of working in the industry noticed a difference in the skill and depth of those that were self taught or learned on the job and those that had subjected themselves to college study on the topic. The difference can be very dramatic but not in every case.
Knowing syntax and being able to design a web site is really just surface knowlegdge. The real deep knowlege comes , as I have observed, in the knowledge of Data Structures and Algorithms, and analysis of algorithms, Database structure and normalization, and exposure to different problem domains and the languages and patterns they have.
All of this knowlege can be obtained outside of the classroom and I would counsel you to pick up a good book or two and get that knowledge and exposure. Then show what you have done and studied along with your projects as part of your accomplishments. It would show that you were serious about gaining a depth of knowlege in the industry and probably give the companies some faith that you can understand and solve their problems in a determanistic way.
A deep understanding of Data Sturctures and Algorithms I feel is the most generally useful set of tools you can obtain and really is the difference between a hand crank drill and a drill press.
Good luck.
We have a huge need to hire a ton of Drupal folks w/LAMP experience. Apply online here http://www.acquia.com/careers
You'll get a lot of temporary work and the benefits kind of suck but oftentimes a company will contract out to a consulting agency and not care too much about pedigrees. All they want is an able body for a 3-6 month stint. If you have decent skills it could work to your long-term advantage though. There are places who test-drive potential employees through consulting, so getting a full-time "permanent" position is possible under the right circumstances.
Be warned though, It helps to have thick skin. Projects get cancelled and you can be the last to know. Your "co-workers" can play dirty sometimes also, so I keep a log of things I worked on and a couple sentence summary of what I did. When I'm done with a project, I'll offer to make the log available to the boss for documentation reasons. It's a great way of showing you can go the extra mile should they consider hiring you long term.
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I know, people are going to complain that the BS degree is the new highschool diploma. Well, that's happened because everyone has a highschool diploma, so the employers are looking for an easy way to distinguish the capable from the incapable.
Assuming that you're really bright, having taught yourself computer science well, finishing a college degree should be a breeze for you. At many colleges, you could get through in 3 years instead of 4 if you go summers.
You'll also run into the problem that all of us who DID bite the bullet and get degrees are not going to tolerate anyone WITHOUT one getting paid as much as we do. The employers know this. Besides, to the employers, getting a degree demonstrates persistence and responsibility, while not having one suggests laziness. Is that a reasonable interpretation? I don't know, but that's how they feel, and I don't completely disagree. Sure, it's possible for one to learn CS well and get good at software engineering without a degree. However, getting a degree is one way to PROVE that you're good. (Even though it doesn't always prove a whole lot, a high GPA demonstrates that you're capable of starting and finishing something that isn't necessarily enjoyable.)
Some of the nonconformists out there will also want to complain that a degree is just "the man" or "the establishment" trying to hold you down or force you to conform. But that's bullshit. Many colleges are very intellectual and free-form in the way they teach or allow you to learn the material. If you're bright, you can select your courses, even opt out of many if you can prove that you know the material. You can actually have FUN getting a degree if you're above average in intellect. Many of the "harder" courses are even more difficult to get bad grades in, because the profs are looking for creative solutions to problems. It's mostly just the weed-out courses that are graded by a brand new masters student who expects you to answer identically to the answer key.
Moreover, there's some value in learning to pretend to conform. Many jobs expect you to follow a dress code, for instance, and if you want a good job, you may just have to deal with that. There are also many CONVENTIONS in CS that are just that. Conventions. They are arbitrary in the same way that red, yellow, and green lights are arbitrary for traffic control. But we follow them to maintain order, based on creating shared expectations. The same is true of many arbitrary conventions in software engineering. You do something a particular way simply so that other engineers with the same training can collaborate with you or maintain your code after you've left. It's not about holding you down. It's about teaching you how to function in established frameworks. And the fact is, you are not so special that you can be above cooperating with other engineers, no matter how much of a genius you are.
I was the same, with no qualifications. I started work in a small IT company on their helpdesk and learned Linux and Unix from that position. I'm now 35 and own 2 properties without mortgage; I had nothing to begin with. I view that as enough success for me. I have never contracted but will consider that next as I don't feel the need for the security of a salaried position, I am just too lazy to leave my current employer who remunerates me well enough. Go for a small business to begin with, they won't have the HR issues that many of the posts detail here in response. Even better, a small family run business will look for qualities in you that other companies would not (I cannot explain that, but I know it) After 2 years, move on - the only way to get decent a pay rise is to move to another company, staying in the same company will only see you garner incremental increases based on your current salary whereas moving to another company can see your pay increase through demand of your skills. I would wish you good luck, bu you won't need it if you are even half decent. There are always jobs in IT, it's proved recession proof in this dark time at least. Be prepared to travel.
>/dev/null 2>&1
If the traditional resume route isn't doing it for you, perhaps consider rebuilding your resume to focus on skills. Google "skills resume" for some examples. Also, maybe make a web site. If you've got rad Drupal and PShop skills, perhaps you could make a small web site that displays your resume, but in a creative way. Last suggestion, maybe you could focus on finding someone who just needs one assignment done as a free-lancer. You could consider under-bidding more experienced competitors, then once you have that assignment, you can add it to your resume and start looking for another. Also, maybe submit to Slashdot. I bet some people there know some people who do Drupal.
Too little debt and that individual will be regarded a slacker
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but when I was hired by my Fortune 20 employer eight years ago I had zero debt of any kind. Perhaps hiring practices have changed in the last few years but this is the first I've heard of companies not being willing to hire debt-free applicants.
Companies do check credit ratings, but that's just as much used as an indicator of responsibility as it is of a theft risk. I do know of one applicant here who was all set to be hired on but was denied the position at the last second due to having too low of a credit rating. I think the specific fear here is that if it's too low the employee needs money so badly that they could be bribed or extorted to turn over confidential information, be it corporate secrets or customer data.
"We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
Similar situation to you. Nobody used to take me seriously until I wrote a programming book. Then I suddenly had a big badge of instant credibility.
I'm not just self-taught about computers, but entirely self-taught.
I put this in bold print on my resume. I bragged that I learn fast and learn well.
And I backed it up at the interview.
Lots of people can write code. Few are the complete package in this business. Nobody wants to learn the little things, such as builds, deployment, etc. Get interested in the "boring" stuff, like testing and test automation. Learn everything there is to know about build and configuration management with your tools of choice. Then practice all those things copiously. This is an area of deficiency in nearly every organization, so identifying that need and making yourself into the person who can fill it will go a long way toward making more hirable, regardless of how you learned your trade.
I also was a self-taught programmer and getting started was easy. I found a job working part-time at a design studio. I actually made less then I was in my previous job. Take a few code samples of stuff you've done. Show it off and explain why you did it that way. Probably the most influential book I've read is Code Complete 2 my Steve McConnell. But it is a book for software engineers and I would not consider it a prerequisite to getting hired as a front-end developer.
If all else fails, start getting certified. CompTIA or CIW. But I put more weight behind code samples then anything else.
We'd absolutely love to talk with you. Please see https://expensify.com/jobs, or write jobs@expensify.com -- we look for people *exactly* like you. Here's what's written on our site: https://www.expensify.com/jobs/need
Who We Need: Engineers, Entrepreneurs, Expert Generalists
We are always hiring talented generalist programmers. But if you really like titles, we're looking for:
- Salespeople (of the future!!)
- Fresh graduates (graduating soon)
- College dropouts (graduating never)
- Senior programmers (there's no such thing as overqualified)
- Mobile developers (iOS, Android, BlackBerry, Windows Phone... even webOS)
- Systems programmers (back end performance and stability)
- Web developers (bring on the PHP!)
- Front-end engineers (jQuery, HTML, CSS, all that)
- Web designer (PSD, HTML, CSS)
We're not looking to stick cogs in a big machine.
We need people who can do pretty much everything and immediately learn how to do the rest. Before even thinking about the skills, we're looking for you to be:
An incredibly hard worker, even when it's not so fun.
There is a ton of work to do, and a lot of it downright sucks. After all - we do the sucky work so our customers won't need to. We need you to buck up and grind through random tasks, server logs, user emails, source code, and bug reports, without complaint or supervision, and come back asking for more.
A cool person to be with.
Not a crazy party animal, just someone we can trust, rely upon, hang out with, bounce ideas off of, and generally interact with in a positive way, both personally and professionally. In fact, this is one of the most stringent requirements we have: would you be fun to hang out with day and night on some remote, exotic beach? This isn't a rhetorical question, either: every year we take the company overseas for a month (on your own dime, sorry) and work incredibly hard while having a ton of fun. We've done Thailand, Mexico, India, Turkey, and the Philippines. Where do you want to go next?
Super talented, in a general way.
We're going to throw a ton of work at you of every possible sort, and you need that magic skill of being able to figure it out even if you have no idea where to start. Everyone helps with tech support, schmoozing at swank parties, hosting events, coming up with new and ever-more-ridiculous marketing stunts, etc. And if you code, you'll code everything: you might do mobile one day, front-end design, back-end optimization, low-level debugging, the works. This is not a monkey job - you're going to be a full participant in the process, and you need to bring your own unique blend of skills to the table.
Even more talented in a programming way.
You can instantly visualize solutions to problems big and small. Your code is always clean, well commented, has good nomenclature and indentation. You can switch on a dime between C++, PHP, Bash, Cron, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, jQuery, Dwoo, SQL — not because you know them all, but because you're the sort of person who can just pick it up and figure it out. If you're this sort of person, you'll know what we mean. If not, then this position isn't for you.
Basically, we're looking for people who want to do amazing things with their careers, and who are searching for a way to get started or take the next incredible step. Does this sound like you? If so, read on...
Please check us out!
-david
Founder and CEO of Expensify
Follow us at http://twitter.com/expensify
Unlike when I was starting off in a similar situation 20 years ago, we have the Internet these days. Actively brand yourself and none of this flash bang nonsense. Actually show what you can do... most importantly focus on professionalism... make sure you don't leave unfinished projects everywhere. Remember that to many companies a university degree says "This guy is willing to follow through with any crap assignment he gets in order to achieve a goal".
The next thing is... be better than the university guys. University grads almost never graduate with any actual usable skills. They're generally just people who proved they can accomplish hard jobs they didn't know how to do before they started... And they can follow through (think I said that already). You need to have better skills and most importantly, the proven ability to follow through. If you open source some code, it should be documented and pristine.
One thing a great computer programmer with a degree from a university understands which a self-educated guy doesn't is data structures. I recommend religiously studying Knuth, become an algorithms expert. Study patterns from the Gang of Four. Be modern and learn parallel programming patterns as well. In reality, if a university grad came out of school with nothing else, those topics alone is enough to make them far more useful than most others.
Good luck... it's a hard journey and in a modern time when there are IT grads falling off of trees left and right, it'll be a tough journey for you.
I was once in your shoes. I made a homepage and posted my c.v. on a jobboard. Then I got asked to become a junior webdeveloper at a company. But hey, you may not be that lucky and have to look for a job yourself. First of all, make a website to show off your skills. Secondly don't look at big companies, they usually only hire people with a degree. Profitable small companies usually only hire people with lots of experience. So look for not so profitable small companies, most of them will be IT companies that are start-ups (under 5 years old). You can recognize those companies because they usually have ongoing job openings for interns. And use terms like 'young, ambitious, dynamic, no 9-5 mentality'. The pay won't be very good. But you will be able to learn a lot. And after 2-3 years you can either move up or away. Good luck!
.. because you picked web development as a field. So if you're willing to work for a little less (or nothing) for a bit, you can get a decent portfolio of good looking websites out there. The portfolio will speak for itself if you document used technology and interesting background on your own website.
And I'm saying you're lucky because if you were a Java developer writing middleware or working basically any other development job out of immediate view, you'd have a hard time showing off your work without it being free and open.
Get a portfolio of your stuff together. Get someone artsy to help you make it look as good as it can. Advertise your skills or respond to help wanted ads. $$$ come soon!
Computing and Programming Since 1975 The Best Kept Secret in Technical Support Master of the Bare Metal Clean Install
A sentence in the header and continuing it in the body.
Assuming you mean "prove" and not "provide", that's utter rubbish. You have to prove it to everyone.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I have *no* post-secondary education. I was done with highschool right around the time when the .com boom was happening, so I joined in the chasing of the pie in the sky.
Since then, I've worked for household names. None of them have cared. The most I've gotten in an interview is,
"I've noticed your resume doesn't have an education section."
"That's because I don't have one -- I've been doing this because I love it since I was a kid -- writing code professionally since I was 14, and doing it ever since."
"Oh, alright."
The job offer usually comes after that anyway.
I do it by making sure I attend and give talks at local universities as part of programming groups.
I'm a member of local user groups.
I contribute to open source projects.
All of these are marketable skills that I point out on my resume. Add that with my work history, and it's never really been an issue. I'm lucky enough now where most of my last few jobs have come from the company coming to me, not the other way around.
So in short: keep bettering yourself, try and get involved in extracurricular activities that are relevant to your field, and be prepared for the questions when interview time comes.
dude. with time and reputation, you can compete with those 3rd world bids, and win with your $30/hr bid against phletora of $5/hr bids. because, anyone who had awarded projects in such places more than once will know what $5/hr will get them. anyone awarding serious projects, will pay properly. those who are content with buying what $5 gives, will keep buying those.
this is a basic rule of the market system currently in effect.
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DrupalCon can be expensive. If you can get there cheaply and perhaps share an AirBnB with someone or otherwise cut costs, it might be worth it.
However, you definitely need to continue freelancing or contracting so that you build a portfolio that you can point to.
In terms of self promotion, I would advise that one of the biggest bang-for-your-buck methods would be to present at Drupal Camps that you can attend cheaply. Make a 45 min presentation out of one of your projects as a "case study", those types of presentations are popular.
Eventually you will get a job offer if you keep that up.
In the longer term, you cannot neglect your education. This doesn't mean going back to school or taking formal classes necessarily, but you have to realize that you will have to be improving yourself for the rest of your career - either learning new technologies before your customers need them, deepening your theoretical background, learning a foreign language, something. Try to attend to that in a disciplined way.
Dude... I looked into some of those sites and I want to THANK YOU! I've shifted more into software dev lately, but I did sign up for a few of those onsite support agencies for those months when my software contracts are a little sparse. OnForce in particular seems very well organised. I knew of a local company like them, but the pay was blah and the company itself was rather messy, so I had stopped looking.
I raise my glass to you, sir!
-Billco, Fnarg.com