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Europe's Largest IT Company To Ban Internal Email

Hugh Pickens writes writes "Thierry Breton, CEO of Atos, Europe's Largest IT Company, wants a 'zero email' policy to be in place in 18 months, arguing that only 10 per cent of the 200 electronic messages his employees receive per day on average turn out to be useful, and that staff spend between 5-20 hours handling emails every week. 'The email is no longer the appropriate (communication) tool,' says Breton. 'The deluge of information will be one of the most important problems a company will have to face (in the future). It is time to think differently.' Instead Breton wants staff at Atos to use chat-type collaborative services inspired by social networking sites like Facebook or Twitter as surveys show that the younger generation have already all but scrapped email, with only 11 per cent of 11 to 19 year-olds using it. For his part Breton hasn't sent a work email in three years. 'If people want to talk to me, they can come and visit me, call or send me a text message. Emails cannot replace the spoken word.'"

48 of 601 comments (clear)

  1. I've noticed this too by CmdrPony · · Score: 4, Interesting

    No one wants to use email anymore. When I talk with clients, one of the first things they ask for is do I have Skype, ICQ or MSN. For business stuff, Skype is the clear winner. I talk with clients and managers there. It has a clear advantage too, as you get instant answer and can actually discuss things in real time. Everything goes easier that way.

    For friends and personal things, it's also only Facebook, Steam and MSN for me. It would feel weird to send email to them, and they probably wouldn't read it anyway. Email is kind of like sending a letter, but in this case it also loses its charm and personal feel. It might been relevant still up to 2005, but now it's all the way Facebook, IM or you know, actually calling someone. I can't say I really miss email either. I still have to use one to receive registration verifications and or some news and stuff like that, but there's nothing personal in email anymore.

    1. Re:I've noticed this too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      And if - one day - there is a lawsuit about your work for the client, there is no proof what you did, what you told them or who authorized it...

      At least always send a later email describing what has happened in skype calls...

    2. Re:I've noticed this too by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Funny

      ICQ? Wow, I think we just had a post arrive through a wormhole from the 1990s.

      --
      No sig today...
    3. Re:I've noticed this too by CmdrPony · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's still used a lot in some European countries and Russia. I'm not from US.

    4. Re:I've noticed this too by Nerdfest · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I would have hoped by now that people would realize that tying your communications into a proprietary technology is an exceptionally bad medium to long term decision. At least email is an open standard. If we could get people using open chat protocols that would be fine, but locking ourselves into Facebook, Skype, and MSN is not likely going to end well. I would hope that it ends like AOL did, but people seem to have forgotten about the disadvantages of proprietary walled gardens.

    5. Re:I've noticed this too by gaspyy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The reasons I prefer email for business are:
      - it forces people to organize ideas somewhat instead of babbling around.
      - it leaves a trail. There's no argument that someone requested X instead of Y for product Z.
      - it can be forwarded, shared and printed.

      I have clients that insist on using Skype. They spend 30-40 minutes discussing stuff that could be summarized in an one-paragraph email. During all the talk I have to keep notes, then organize the items discussed and make a doc that I send back to the client asking if they're sure this is what they wanted and then share it with my team. Overall I don't save time.

      I can't speak for anybody else, but for ME email is still the preferred business communication tool.

    6. Re:I've noticed this too by Gonoff · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Several potential suppliers have lost my business by not doing email. I work in IT and they try to get me to use a fax???

      --
      I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
    7. Re:I've noticed this too by kent_eh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly. Multi-hour, daily conference calls about why a project is behind schedule are the leading cause for projects to be behind schedule.
      It's the asynchronous nature of e-mail that improves my productivity.
      Add in the CYA factor of being able to save, and forward old e-mails, and I can't see why anyone would want to move away from e-mail.

      Unless they don't want to be held accountable for what they said months ago, or if they prefer to spend all their time in conference calls about work, as opposed to actually doing work...

      --

      ---
      "I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
    8. Re:I've noticed this too by datavirtue · · Score: 4, Funny

      One has to analyze the total economic advantage of having a girlfriend on the other side of the world. Seems to defeat the purpose.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    9. Re:I've noticed this too by datavirtue · · Score: 4, Informative

      Besides, chat logs are not a legal and submittable in court. Email is well tested and has a traceable header.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    10. Re:I've noticed this too by bfwebster · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, this cuts both ways. As someone who has acted as an expert witness in a number of lawsuits, I usually want to see the time-sorted e-mail record where relevant, particularly if there are software developers or engineers involved (since they tend to be more, ah, blunt in their statements). I've seen large cases end up settling unfavorably for one side because of a dozen or so internal e-mails that its personnel had written (one I recall said something to the effect of "Why are we charging our client [a large specific sum of money] and delivering them garbage?").

      But I fully agree with you as well: document, document, document, whether by e-mail, memo, or letter. If your firm (particularly if you're a software developer/vendor) has never been involved in a lawsuit, there is a tendency to tell yourself, "We'll make this work out; we want to keep the customer happy; we're all grown-ups here," and so rely on verbal assurances or concessions. Then when a lawsuit happens, you have no documentation -- just he-said/she-said testimony -- as to why (and how) the scope changed or the project went over-schedule/over-budget or why certain IP was used or shared or when certain key inventions were developed. ..bruce..

      --
      Bruce F. Webster (brucefwebster.com)
    11. Re:I've noticed this too by PrimalChrome · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How many 'legal organizations' do you work with, exactly? We have about 600 clients, many in the legal/financial markets. Most have retention policies requiring years of emails to be kept. I believe law requires some financial institutions to archive email for a number of years as well.

      "Why do they do this crazy thing?" asks the five minute attention span twitter generation of teens and twixties that have never held a full time job with any more responsibility than making sure that a coffee had extra cream. They do this to cover their asses. One email, a SINGLE email, can make the difference between a multi million dollar lawsuit or a lost account that pays your salary.

    12. Re:I've noticed this too by Gr8Apes · · Score: 5, Funny

      I can forgive ICQ.... but Trillian?

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    13. Re:I've noticed this too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      This is probably because of regulatory/legal issues. In many jurisdictions a FAXED document with signatures is a legal document, an EMAILED document with the same signatures (PDF) is NOT a legal document.

    14. Re:I've noticed this too by Bert64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Both of which can be trivially faked, but then lots of legal matters hinge on something as ridiculously arbitrary as a signature - a random mark on a piece of paper which is even easier to fake.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    15. Re:I've noticed this too by mr1911 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've worked for a company that mandated irrevocably deleting emails as soon as legally possible. Why? "One email, a SINGLE email, can make the difference between a multi million dollar lawsuit..."

      That really only works if all parties on the email have the same policy. I have never seen that work. Unless you consider having your company look guilty due to an all-too-apparent attempt to cover their tracks a success, in which case this usually works like a charm.

      A even more sleazy company could send all its backups to its lawyers, so they are protected by attorney/client privilege.

      Attorney-client privilege is not a magic shield that protects everything one might throw behind the term. The backups are almost certainly not privileged and would most likely have to be turned over in discovery. The only thing this does is lengthen the process and rack up fees that you will ultimately be held responsible for.

      --
      This post comes with a double-your-money-back guarantee!
      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
    16. Re:I've noticed this too by afidel · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's not true at ALL, FRCP makes zero distinction between the media of communications, all relevant records need to be turned over. Likewise the SEC has required that all financial communications between traders and clients be kept no matter the media so financial institutions must not allow chat programs unless they go through a logging proxy.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    17. Re:I've noticed this too by Dishevel · · Score: 4, Funny

      Thank God you have Facebook to make yet another relationship seem closer than it is.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    18. Re:I've noticed this too by leonardluen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If it's really important, someone will call....

      damn i hate that! why the heck are you calling me? send me an email or IM! that is self documenting, and i can review it as often as i want to make sure i understood what you wrote, and can file it away in my TODO list so i don't forget.. With a call as soon as you hang up i can't go back and replay it. If someone calls me and asks me to do something the first thing i always ask is for them to send me an email or IM with the request.

      Also with phone they expect an immediate response, and so i have to interrupt what i am working on to respond to them. and all too often if they leave a voicemail it is just "please call me back" with no detail of what they had wanted and so now i have more wasted time calling them back and half the time they aren't there so i have to leave a voicemail "i called you back, but you weren't there, what was it you wanted?". this would all have been solved by a simple email to begin with!

    19. Re:I've noticed this too by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Funny

      One has to analyze the total economic advantage of having a girlfriend on the other side of the world. Seems to defeat the purpose.

      He didn't say it was his only girlfriend. Actually having them spread out away from you make juggling more of them MUCH easier. I've done it with different girls in different cities around me and even across states...but never in other countries.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    20. Re:I've noticed this too by cos(0) · · Score: 4, Funny

      You don't have to rest on the period key every time you pause or take a breath.

    21. Re:I've noticed this too by Forbman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, it doesn't matter if both parties don't have similar retention policies. My company is going through a goofy process to regenerate and supply some old data to a major bank that we did some back-office processing for. People in my company involved in things 5 years ago SWEAR up and down that they had the OK by the bank in an email to stop the collection of certain data that we'd been doing for the bank that was bought by this major bank way back then, but NO ONE in my company could find the email on our side. No way is the bank going to find it on their side, even if they still had the email (this was like 5+ years ago, so it's probably out of their email & backup retention window for that kind of data).

      So... lots of silly work on our side to reprocess and regenerate this data, but I suppose it's cheaper than dealing with a lawsuit and probably having to do it anyways.

      An old saying from when I worked at Abbott Laboratories..."if it isn't documented, it didn't happen". Yes, this is a sword that can cut both ways, but usually it inflicts great harm on the wielder of the sword.

      And, the paper trail that is email, being stored on centralized servers, and at least in a bigger company, having some degree of isolation of manipulation by end users (OK, they deleted the email from their inbox, but it was sent to them while they were at home during the night, and it was saved on the mail server's backups from that night...), means it's going to stand up in court far more than an IM log stored on a user's computer.

      But, it's his company to run, I suppose. Good luck to him.

    22. Re:I've noticed this too by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Skype is not only for calls, I mainly use it for text chats (which can be logged).

      Texting/IM is just real-time email. The downside being that I must respond on your timetable, not mine, and my time is more valuable than yours - and before you respond to that last bit... Yes it is. :-)

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  2. The idea is good, but email still has its place by Jack+Malmostoso · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I agree that most emails are useless (starting from those which are sent just FYI, but are still distracting and interrupting the workflow).
    However, if there is one thing I learnt by working in a megacorporation, is that _everything_ has to be in writing at some point.
    So many times a colleague or supplier will say "sure, we'll do that no problem" and then weeks go by, without anyone remembering.
    For accountability, email is still the way to go.

    1. Re:The idea is good, but email still has its place by icebrain · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Email is still king where I work.

      -It's asynchronous, so you can still get information to people who are away from their desks, out sick, working different hours, etc. Phone calls and the internal IM system are used for informal or urgent things, but email still gets sent as a followup for anything important.

      -It's handy for reference, since you can go back and look later.

      -It's a great CYA tool, so when your boss walks up and says "why the hell did you do it that way?!" you can respond with "because you told me to" and back that up with proof. You can also use it to show that you made repeated efforts to get information and were ignored.

      -It's a hell of a lot more professional than facebook.

      Of course, I work in a compliance-driven industry that is conservative by nature (aerospace).

      --
      The meek may inherit the earth, but the strong shall take the stars.
    2. Re:The idea is good, but email still has its place by JoeMerchant · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree that most emails are useless (starting from those which are sent just FYI, but are still distracting and interrupting the workflow).

      The beauty of e-mail is that the social contract of e-mail allows you to ignore it for longer than a real-time chat. If you want to hold an IM-like conversation in e-mail, most systems are fast enough to support that, but if you've got something you're in the middle of, e-mail doesn't demand instant attention the way a phonecall or chat session does.

    3. Re:The idea is good, but email still has its place by rudy_wayne · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree that most emails are useless (starting from those which are sent just FYI, but are still distracting and interrupting the workflow).

      If emails are "distracting and interrupting the workflow" then you are doing it wrong. The problem isn't email, it's the way people deal with it.
      Get away from the mindset that you have to immediately read and deal with every email the instant it arrives and you'll get a lot more work done.

      surveys show that the younger generation have already all but scrapped email, with only 11 per cent of 11 to 19 year-olds using it.

      There's a good idea. Let's run our business like a bunch of 11 year-olds. Sorry, but the only people who have no use for email are people who have no job and nothing worthwhile to say or do (i.e., your typical 11-19 year old)

      For his part Breton hasn't sent a work email in three years. 'If people want to talk to me, they can come and visit me, call or send me a text message."

      Right. Nothing wrong with a crowd of people hanging around outside his office waiting to speak with him directly, rather than just send an email that he can read when he wants. And at the same time there's a few dozen people trying to call him on the phone. Sounds like a wonderful idea. I'm sure this will work out great.

    4. Re:The idea is good, but email still has its place by Inda · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I bet Breton's PA has sent emails on his behalf over teh past 3 years - I know my own director rarely clicks the send button himself.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
  3. That is insane! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I work IT and my company could not survive without email. All of our orders from customers and orders to vendors go through email. We have to attach PDF and word documents too. How am I going to do that with text messaging? Email is the most useful and important IT function we have.

  4. Facebook and Twitter? by Sockatume · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Sir, people are using our communication tool for unproductive social activities."

    "Quickly, build an internal system which is modelled after even less productive, more overtly social software."

    --
    No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
  5. Email is vital by Crookdotter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This whole IM thing is no different than a phone call. Some communication requires careful thought and so is best written down so you can think about a response. Email is the perfect medium for such communication. Facebook is a general post to anyone who might read it. When you need a private, considered opinion, email is the way. Or am I now too old to 'get' facebook or twitter? They both seem pointless to me. In fact, moving your employees towards them would seem to be a drain on productivity if nothing else.

  6. Colour me surprised by LizardKing · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This would be the CTO of a company renowned (in the UK at least) for its involvement in a huge number of abortive public sector IT projects. I very much doubt that Breton has much input into those projects though, as Atos is a huge company. He probably does what most executives of his calibre do, and attend pointless senior managment meetings, generally in nice locations with dinner and drink laid on. That's when he isn't schmoozing for more work, a task that generally involves more dinner and drink, all paid for out of the company kitty.

  7. The problem isn't the medium. by LighterShadeOfBlack · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So people are receiving lots of emails, of which 90% are useless, and this guy decides the solution is to switch from emails to 'chat-type' services. So now you've got lots of chat messages, of which 90% are useless. Problem solved?

    --
    Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
    1. Re:The problem isn't the medium. by Aladrin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not only that. Those people think their messages are important, or they wouldn't be sending them. They now have to find some other way to get the word out. And they WILL find a way, no matter how annoying or painful it is to others.

      They should be looking to fix the problem, not the symptoms.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
  8. Useless people prefer to talk. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When it comes to useful communication, talking is usually one of the most inefficient and ineffective ways to get real work done. Whatever slight advantage might come from the realtime aspect of it is immediately lost several times over due to the lack of any history being retained. This makes it far more difficult to refer back to it later, to share it with others, and to search through large volumes of it.

    In most businesses, those people doing the real bulk of the work tend to prefer written communication. It's just a far more efficient way to work. In turn, those who prefer verbal communication are usually those who do the least real work. They're the ones who sit in meetings or phone calls all day "planning" or "discussing strategy" or otherwise not doing anything useful.

    1. Re:Useless people prefer to talk. by arth1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When it comes to useful communication, talking is usually one of the most inefficient and ineffective ways to get real work done. Whatever slight advantage might come from the realtime aspect of it is immediately lost several times over due to the lack of any history being retained.

      Also because most real time talk is chit-chat, and not getting the exact point across. Because it's not about being exact, it's about being liked.
      I don't give a rodent's excretory orifice whether a vendor likes me or not. I care about the quotes he sends being well documented, and what promises he makes in writing. No, I will not call him even if he asks for the tenth time. I will send him an e-mail, and expect the same back.

    2. Re:Useless people prefer to talk. by sycodon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Then there is the not so obvious advantages to written communication:

      1. Most people will proof what they just write. If they are any good at all, they will end up revising it for greater clarity and accuracy.
      2. Most people will copy their managers, colleagues, an d/or subordinates when the information is necessary for the team to complete the job.
      3. The information is readily available in the future for reference or revision.
      4. As the AC mentioned, you can use it to later see what you did right and what you did wrong.

      Of course there is the whole CYA aspect too.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  9. So... by Zaldarr · · Score: 5, Funny

    No more lolcats in my inbox? I has a sad.

    --
    I write professional videogame reviews! http://www.digitallydownloaded.net/
  10. Email haters by Bitsy+Boffin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I work almost entirely in email. I hate talking on phones. I hate ringing people. I hate being called.

    The phone is so intrusive, it's like the person doing the calling has no care about what the person being called is doing, they think they are the most important thing ever and you should be sitting there just waiting for their call. Telephoning somebody, to me, is like walking up and interrupting the other party when they are in a conversation with somebody else.

    Email by contrast is fundamentally polite and efficient, you send the message and when it is convenient for the other end, they reply.

    The same problems that phones have also apply to other forms of "instant" messaging.

    Most people have no trouble working over email, the few who do I generally find either have some disability (dyslexia), or are just plain demanding and really do believe that they are the most important person and can't understand why you won't spend hour upon hour on the phone listening to their inane drivel (and woe betide you should bill them for it).

    --
    NZ Electronics Enthusiasts: Check out my Trade Me Listings
  11. using words hard speaking more easy by mschaffer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is so sad. It's a symptom of a much greater problem: We are reaping the latest crop that was sown by modern education.
    The little Johnys and Janes are barely literate. Composing even the simplest prose (to answer an email or any other written communication) just takes too long for the average person entering the workforce today.

  12. who cares what 11-19 year olds do- they're kids by CountBrass · · Score: 4, Funny

    Should I also lose all of my social skills, stop bathing and whine about how my parents don't understand me.

    The youth unemployment rate is at an all time high wheras the unemployment rate for my, email using, demographic is still nice and low.

    I'll pass on job related advice from them, or the head of 3rd tier IT company, thanks very much.

    --
    Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
  13. Ignoring the queue factor by billcopc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I understand why IM / Skype are preferred, and I do the same with my coworkers, but not every communication needs to be real-time. When email and IM are both available, email becomes a "when you have a moment" queue, while IM is "Right Fucking Now (tm)". If someone sends me an email, I'll quickly scan it, maybe flag it on a to-do list, and deal with it when I'm idle or bored.

    My expected response times:

    Email: 24hrs
    IM: 10 mins
    Phone: immediate (duh)

    The best way to get me to yell at someone, is to mis-prioritize something. Email me a work order, then call 5 minutes later asking why it hasn't been done: yelling. Call me to post an event on the site that's 3 months away, which details you have yet to finalize: yelling. Text me from McBurgerWay to ask if I want anything: yelling.

    All three channels have their pros and cons, and should be used appropriately. To completely shun one or two of them, to me at least, seems incredibly foolish and even ignorant.

    --
    -Billco, Fnarg.com
  14. Re:using words hard speaking more easy by Chrisq · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is so sad. It's a symptom of a much greater problem: We are reaping the latest crop that was sown by modern education. The little Johnys and Janes are barely literate. Composing even the simplest prose (to answer an email or any other written communication) just takes too long for the average person entering the workforce today.

    You might be right about this. My daughter got a temp job as an admin assistant while she studies. They asked applicants to respond to a fictitious email, then write a reply to a letter using MS word. Evidently that brought the number of applicants going into an actual interview down from twenty to three...

  15. Our entire company just moved to Google Wave by Colin+Smith · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's the next big communication medium. Everything on one page. So easy to use.

     

    --
    Deleted
  16. 10 per cent by JoeMerchant · · Score: 4, Insightful

    staff spend between 5-20 hours handling emails every week.

    Man, so how many hours will they spend if they are on Facebook and Twitter trying to accomplish the same thing?

    only 10 per cent of the 200 electronic messages his employees receive per day on average turn out to be useful,

    10 per cent is an awesomely high signal to noise ratio in Facebook and Twitter.

  17. The problem is not the medium... by drdaz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The problem is the culture. The fact that there is a poor signal to noise ratio in employee communications is unlikely to be remedied by simply swapping medium... The garbage will just come through the new channel. The situation will only improve if people begin thinking about what is necessary to communicate, rather than spamming every thought that comes into their mind.

    Of course, banning *all* forms of electronic, textual communication might help this... but it doesn't seem (from the summary at least) that this is what's being suggested.

  18. Re:using words hard speaking more easy by datavirtue · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Agreed, I work with a LOT of modern students from ages 17 to 75. Most of them, the younger ones, HATE writing and reading anything. Mainly because it takes them soooo long to do it and requires so much effort. I love writing my college papers because I have read hundreds of books and therefore know how to write and further enjoy it. It is nothing for me to write a report running on for seven pages that is concise and well formed with unique content, for the average student that is like asking for a couple of their finger nails and they subsequently quote dump, plagiarize and "bullshit" their way through it. Drum roll......they still get good grades for the junk they hand in, so they think they are doing a good job. If they later attend a good university they wonder why their English professor keeps handing their papers back to them with "rewrite" at the top. At lesser universities they continue along the lines of the community college and high-schools to keep collecting tuition, simple as that.

    --
    I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
  19. Re:using words hard speaking more easy by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have no kids of my own, but I have nephews. The oldest is in college at a good quality state university. I had a conversation with him not terribly long ago and it went something like this:
    Me: I saw you wrote "prolly" on Facebook. You do know that that is not a real word, right?
    Him: What do you mean?
    Me: "Prolly" is text message speak. The real word is "probably".
    Him: (look of puzzlement and confusion)
    Me: I'm not joking. You've never heard of "probably"?
    Him: I've only seen "prolly".

    When you graduate from an American high school and you are a reasonably intelligent person (he's got a B average at college) and you think "prolly" is a real word and you don't know what "probably" is, the educational system may just be broke beyond fixing.